Ladies and gentlemen, shareholders, stakeholders, other interested parties. My name is Francesco, and as chairman of the board, I have the privilege of introducing you and welcoming you to HANZA's Capital Markets Day. This afternoon will be full of facts with a glimpse of the past, but mainly a trajectory into the future, explaining the logics behind our new financial targets and finishing up with a Q&A session at the end. I hope you're active because that's the most interesting part of the day. You can be provocative, at the worst case, you will not get the answers. It will not be a monologue by our CEO, but we will have our whole lineup of management within HANZA, and you will evaluate the spirit of the company, if it's there or not. Erik, can you join me here?
Mm-hmm.
Erik does not need an introduction. He's the founder and the CEO of the company since a long time back, but he has since three months back, a new title, and that is Geschäftsführer of BMK. How do you like that title?
I like it very much. Thank you.
You should all know that HANZA that Erik spends half of his time in Germany nowadays. Every other week supporting not only with operational leadership, but mainly to, and more importantly, to influence with the HANZA culture and values. An acquisition is simple to make, but the integration is so much harder, and I think you're doing it the right way. In German, you would say, "Hut ab" or "hervorragend." Ladies and gentlemen, Erik Stenfors.
Thank you. Thank you, Francesco. Warm welcome from my side as well. It's really great to see you all here today, so many people, and of course, a special welcome from those of you following us online. Today, we would like to give you a deeper understanding of HANZA, not only what we do, but also why our model works, how we built the company step by step, and how we intend to build it moving forward. Before we start, let me just briefly walk you through the agenda. I will give you a short introduction of the company, and then you will meet, as Francesco pointed out, some of our fantastic leaders. They will give you a lot of insights and details about operation, sales. We will hear from our new member of the family, BMK.
We will hear about the defense program Lynx. We will hear about how we keep it all together, Hansa United, and of course, financial info, financial development, and our new financial targets. We will take a short coffee break in the middle, and we will leave plenty of room for questions at the end. Please use that opportunity to ask any questions. As Francesco said, they may be provocative, but that's okay. Let's start. I think to understand HANZA, you must understand the complexity problem we have in our industry. Modern products, they require several different manufacturing technologies. Normally, traditionally, they are provided by one supplier each. You would have one for the electronics, another one for the mechanics, a third one for the cable harnesses. You might end up like this illustrated here with different technologies by different suppliers in different countries.
Quite complex, and it's exactly this problem we would like to solve in HANZA. That's why we started a company 17.5 years ago. Our answer is our business model. Let's have a look. Our vision, our guiding star, our compass is manufacturing made easy. We would like the procurement manager to look like the person on this slide, completely relaxed, calm, in control. That is what we do, manufacturing made easy. How we do it is described by this. We have built an organization which embraces several different manufacturing technologies, and it means that we can come to the customer and with a consolidated offer, so they can get one responsible partner for the whole manufacturing chain. That's how you simplify manufacturing. I think this model, the easiest way to explain it is through a real-life example.
Mitsubishi, a company that had a division called Logisnext, developing, manufacturing, selling forklifts. We did a case study for a few of their products. We see it on a picture here, and we came up with this supply chain. Not really a surprise. This is how it looks. Again, different technologies in different countries, making it quite complex. Our proposal to Mitsubishi was this. Consolidate the supply chain to simplify it. Not only do you get simplification, but you also get lowered cost. You get a more robust supply chain, lower lead times, higher delivery accuracy. On top of all this, you will also save the environment because you will remove a lot of unnecessary transports. This is our model in a nutshell. This is, let's say, one of the features of HANZA. Another feature of HANZA is our execution model.
If you ever start a company, it's one thing with a business model, but trust me, you really need to look at execution. That's the key. What we have done is to execute in steps. Since we started the company back in 2008, we have had phases, each phase with a clear target to lift HANZA up one level when it comes to customer value. That's the most important thing, to increase customer value. Now we have passed four of these phases. The last one was HANZA 2025, and today we launched HANZA 2028, the fifth phase. I like to explain then exactly what happened in 2025, how we increased the customer value. This is HANZA back in 2022. We had then created five manufacturing clusters in Europe. We also have something called gateways. That's standalone factories, not clusters.
We had one in China, still have. What we clearly saw then was that there was an advantage of scale, and I'm sure Lars will also come into this. When we reach a certain size of our cluster, our customer value increases. We had one big cluster in the Baltics, 700 people, and then the others were not as big. We said, we need to scale the clusters. We need to have more even distribution of our clusters. That was what we launched back in November 2022, a journey to make the clusters more even and larger. Then off we go. What we have done then is to build factories, acquire factories, and expand the clusters, all of them with the intention to find this perfect map, and this is where we are now.
I have to say, we are quite satisfied with the new map. You see that all the clusters are above 700 people. Actually, we were a bit ahead of our planning. We didn't expect to reach this far, but this is a perfect map. This is exactly where we would like to be right now. Now when it comes to financial targets, you cannot just have financial targets hanging in the air. It must be based on something. We base our financial targets or on our operational targets. If we succeed with our operational targets, we will reach our financial targets. When we then calculated back in 2022, if we succeed with 5 clusters the same size, what would be our sales? We said we will come up to about SEK 6.5 billion.
From SEK 3.5 billion back in 2022 to SEK 6.5 billion when we enter 2026. Now the clusters became a bit larger and hence also we have reached SEK 10 billion in sales. The most important thing is not sales, it is the platform we have created because that means now we can enter the next phase, and that is HANZA 2028. Again, the point of origin is to increase customer value. In 2025, it was about scaling HANZA. Now it's about adding technologies. This is very important because if you have been following us then from 2025 strategy, you saw we were increasing in Poland, we were increasing in Finland, we were increasing in Germany. No surprise because it was part of HANZA 2025.
Now, if you keep this in mind, it will be very clear the actions we're going to do in HANZA 2028. What technology should we add? How can we increase customer value with adding technologies? There's a simple answer. Ask our customers. It's important we are pure contract manufacturer. This is important. We don't have our own products. We believe that if we would have our own products, we would compete with our customers about the resources. We are pure contract manufacturers, but that also means we can only grow as fast or as slow as our customer base. Therefore, we spend a lot of time to design our customer base, and that we will hear much more about today how the customer base looks. This is important then. We are connected to our customer base.
We would like to increase, meaning that our customers increase, we must provide them with more tools. We must be able to more consolidate the supply chain in order for them to grow faster. That's the whole idea behind HANZA 2028. Now this is the concept. You'll learn much more about the details from our COO when it comes to technologies. Okay, we have a business model, we have an execution model. What is the most important if you run a company? People, of course. We spend a quite large part of my time and a lot of my colleagues' time to make sure that we could attract, recruit, develop, keep the right competence. When we buy a company, we do an HR due diligence to make sure it's the right company.
We work a lot with the cultures to make sure we can share resources between the factories and the clusters. This is also a very important part of HANZA, and therefore, you will hear more about this today as well. My final slide, transparency. This has been very important since we started HANZA to be, have an open interface, and one of the layers is of course the financial transparency. You might have noticed that a year ago we changed our interim report. If you promise not to tell, I can share a secret. We did look at some of the best-in-class interim reports and did some copy-paste in order to enhance our report. That's just one level. Nobody would buy shares in a company based on the financial reporting. That's just a standard thing.
You need to also to know the strategy, the organization, and the plan for the future. That's what we will focus on today, of course, numbers as well, but it's really important that you understand where we are heading. That's another layer of our transparency. The third layer. We run an open door interface. We welcome shareholders, investors, analysts to visit our factories, bypass the CEO, go directly into the heart of HANZA, talk to the people. Now we have roadshow in May 7 in our cluster in Sweden. If you have the opportunity, you can sign up by sending an email to info@hanza.com. Info@hanza.com, and then you will have a roadshow in Värmland, Sweden.
You will also see the latest factory we opened just two weeks ago, and we had the honor to have the defense minister of Sweden to cut the ribbon because it is important with the industry in Sweden, mainly because of the defense also. I highly recommend it. If you have a chance, use that layer of transparency and talk to the people in the factory. Now, HANZA is growing, and therefore also our information flow must grow. Today, we launched two new things, customer segments upon request. You like to know more about where we are in the different segments, and we will talk about this today. The second thing we are launching is financial segments. Why do we do that? Well, our external reporting must reflect our internal reporting.
Now what we will hear from our CEO is that we group together clusters into regions, and that is how we will follow up the information internally, and therefore we should also do that externally. That's also something we present today. All in all, I think that our transparency has really contributed to the shareholder value that we've been able to create over the year. This is very important. With that short introduction, I will leave the floor to our COO, Andreas Nordin, who will talk about business development and operation. Two things that goes well together.
Yes.
Please welcome our CEO.
Going to develop the relationship that we have with our existing customers. With that comes the operations afterwards that we need to provide good deliveries to our customers with, good quality. We talked, Erik mentioned about technologies. What are we going to do during this strategy period? We have a technology roadmap here. We have the six main technologies within HANZA today, and we can start with the heavy mechanics. What is heavy mechanics? You can think about products, steel of centimeters, products with steel of centimeters. We go into machining, you have grinding, milling, turning of steel. Sheet metals, also products, but here with millimeters instead. Electronics, it can be boards, can be boards built into a box that we call Box Build. Cable harnesses, it can be one cable, but you can also put cables into a harness.
Then we have a complex assembly. We can take all the parts from what we just saw and put it into a final module or a sub-module that we deliver to the customer. Those are the six technologies that we have today or the six capabilities that we have today. In order to stay relevant, we also need to look into, is this what the customer need? As Erik said, we are here for our customers. Do customers want to continue with this? They want this? Yes. That's one question we need to answer. The next one, do they want to add something? That is also something that we're going to analyze during this period and see if we're going to add some technology. Is it also so that we have some sub-technologies within these main technologies that we need to develop?
That is also what we are going to look into during this strategy period. Once we have set that plan, we know what to do. Of course, we're going to do the development plan to bring them into HANZA in a good way. When all this is done, we also need to produce in a good way, and we do that. We have a lot today, for those of you who have been around and seen our factories, we have a lot of automation, a lot of robots working in our factories, but we're going to increase that further. We have also some initiatives on the AI to see what can that support us more with. Let's have a look now on our manufacturing clusters that we have today. In the, it's purple dots, you see the clusters.
In the brown, orange dots, those are the gateways that Erik talked about. If we look now on the focus for this time on the clusters, we can start with Sweden. We can see here that we have the complex assembly. You see again the 6 technologies down there that I just talked about in the previous slide. You can see how we are now putting them where they are present in the clusters. In Sweden, we have complex assembly, sheet metal, electronics, and machining. We move to the east. In Finland, we have complex assembly, sheet metal, machining, and wire harnesses. We go a bit further south into the Baltics, complex assembly, sheet metal, machining, wire harnesses, and heavy mechanics. You remember, heavy mechanics was the thick part. In Central Europe, complex assembly, sheet metal, electronics, and wire harnesses.
Central Europe is here, a cluster that is combining Czech Republic and Poland. In Germany, complex assembly and electronics, and Sweden that we have already talked about. This is what we have today. This is what we're also going to analyze. Are we going to add some tech capabilities in the clusters? Are we going to remove some capabilities in the clusters? This is also going to be analyzed during this period. Besides this, with the technologies, we also need to ensure that we have good investment of machines so that we can produce well to our customers. How do we invest in machines? Either we invest in machines by replacing old machines that need to be replaced so that we can...
The worst thing that we can have is an unplanned problem with the machine, and then we cannot deliver, customer is not satisfied. That we need to ensure that we have the right level of machines in all our clusters and factories. We also have customers that they want something and a special thing, and then we are also investing and buying machines to support that customer. Everything is done with a clear return on investment case that we are preparing, taking a discussion on, and then taking a decision on to move on. To summarize these two then, you saw that in the clusters that I showed that we have different capability in each cluster. There is not a strategy today that they should look exactly the same.
Because some of the technologies that we saw, they benefit from putting together, grouping them, and using scale, and some of them they are better close to where the customers are. We also look into our customers constantly, customers, products to see, okay, where do we need to continue our investments? We try to keep that stable over the years, so we don't get peaks in investment. We try to keep them steadily. A lot when we are, like Erik said, a contract manufacturer, we don't have our own products. We buy a lot.
Either we buy steel that we work with to make turn into a product, but we can also buy other things that we are putting in to an assembly, make this complex assembly, or we can buy products just to send together with what we have produced for the customer to do the installation. Here is also an important part that we work together, and some here as well is benefiting from working putting together. We can have a benefit when we negotiate with our suppliers, and some of it is better out in the regions where they know what to buy. Important here also to eliminate risks is that we do have a contingency plan for suppliers, for products, components, so we don't end up in a situation where we are not getting a supply.
We can always have a single source, then we need to have a strategy for our single sources. We can be in a place in the world where we also need to be a bit more careful on how we are going to source that material. There is also a contingency plan with actions on what we do if something happens in that part of the world or with that specific supplier. Of course, very important that they sign our code of conduct. The clusters we have, they are still the cornerstone of HANZA and the main building block of HANZA. Now we are turning this, we are not moving into Region, we are just grouping the clusters into Region, but the clusters, they are still the main cornerstones. That reflects the business idea that Erik talked about.
How have we done that now? We think about from a customer point of view, how do we serve the customers today, and how do we talk to the customers today? You can see in many cases, we are serving the same customer from different factories and different clusters. That's why we see that the strength of the region is. In Region North, basically, we can see that it's a copy of Sweden. Cluster Sweden is also Region North. Region East, the two main clusters in Region East is Finland and Baltics. We are serving the same customers there. Many customers are the same. We see that there is a benefit of grouping this into region, and we can by then address the customers in a good way.
We have Region Center, where we have Cluster Central Europe, Czech Republic, Poland, together with Germany. We have also grouped the gateways that Erik talked about here. We can see that the gateway in Israel is in center, gateway in China and Abu Dhabi is in Region East. Again, clusters are still the main part. Regions is how we are putting it together to serve the customers. Just to reflect here the same what I have said, we have the three regions, we still see the clusters in the regions, and we have some support functions into this. Important here also, we made a lot of acquisitions the last years, and, like Francesco said here about Erik being half of his time in Germany, I think that is really important.
It's a big acquisition that we made, and everything around the integration is very important. That's why we have said that, Milectria and BMK are run separate during this year. It can be so that they will be placed into, back into this organization at some point in time earlier than the end of this year, but we have not set a time limit, just that it should be done before end of December 2026. Then we have also the governance around that is, of course, we have targets, we have KPIs with these guys, and I have, with the region and with the cluster, I do a weekly follow-up, I do a monthly follow-up with them. These are both financial targets and operational targets. Now, we move into customer base. How do we choose the customers here?
We are here for our customers, and at the same time, there is a risk, right? If you have one customer, HANZA is one customer, of course, there is a big risk if something happens. We need to choose our customers wisely. We are grouping them into segments that we will see on the coming slide. Here, the diverse customer base. No customer should exceed 10% of our turnover. Our turnover is SEK 10 billion, so it shouldn't be more than SEK 1 billion. The 10 largest customers should together account for less than 50%. The second one here is the total cost of ownership. How do we move the customer from just being a part of production to the customer to part production plus landed into a total cost of ownership?
How can we work with the customers to check the pain points they have in their supply chain? We can support them by rewiring those supply chains. Business development. We have a lot of customers that come in. Florian, you will talk about that with BMK. A lot of customers coming to HANZA. How can we benefit from that? There are customers that can buy things from electronics from BMK, but how can we also bring them into the rest of HANZA, other capabilities? How can we cross-sell the other factories? Of course, very important. We are also prepared with our customers to discuss tailored solutions. If there is something that they'd like to have for them to be produced in a certain way at a certain place, we are also there to discuss that.
Not to rehash conditions, but when it's a good win for both of us. Yes. Let's go into the segments. We sent it out in the press release today as well, but I just go through them a little bit more today. I know that you have been asking for that for a long time, and finally we have now released that. How have we chosen these segments, and how have we grouped it? It's mainly where the product that we deliver, where the end market is for that product. We have chosen five segments, with the first one, electrification and energy system. That is products and systems that are used in electrification and in energy infrastructure, such as, for example, power generation and distribution, energy storage, and so on. The second segment, defense and security.
Products and systems used in defense and security applications. This goes, you will see what that is. That's military, civil security, and other mission-critical environments. The third is heavy equipment. It's mobile heavy-duty machinery, industrial vehicles used in, for instance, the mining, construction, forestry, agriculture. The fourth one, industrial and professional products. Those are products that are in standalone equipment used in commercial and specialized industrial environments. The fifth is industrial machinery and systems, and they are used in automation, manufacturing, other material, flow systems. Those are the five segments that we have gathered all our customers into. The size of those, they are like this.
Again, on the same order as we saw on the previous slide, the biggest one in HANZA is the industrial and professional products of slightly over SEK 3 billion, followed by the electrification and energy system of SEK 2.4 billion, industrial machinery system, SEK 2.1 billion, heavy equipment, SEK 1.4 billion, and defense, SEK 0.8 billion. Good. With that, I hand over to BMK and Florian.
Yes. You can give a hand for Erik. Wonderful work. Yeah, thank you very much. As Erik introduced, I'm Florian. I'm here from Germany, and I want to inform you a little bit about who is BMK and why is BMK and HANZA together now dynamite for the manufacturing industry. Some key messages which I want to show you. At first it's BMK's development and the market position. I think just a few have checked about who is BMK, but I will give you some details. Most important, the core business, core capabilities we have and our USPs as one of the biggest EMS companies in Germany. I brought some showcases because this is always the best to introduce what we are doing.
I cannot show or I'm not allowed to show all, but I have two examples. In the end, I will give a short outlook about BMK and HANZA now together and how we want to disrupt the German manufacturing industry together. All of these three guys, you don't know. This is the founders of BMK, Mr. Baur, Mr. Müller, and Mr. Knöferl. They founded the company in south of Germany in Augsburg about more than 30 years ago. It was 1994, a management buyout of a company in Germany which wanted to close the electronics production, and the three guys in the age of 30+, they said, "Okay, let's give it a try.
I think electronic manufacturing can still have a future in Germany. They started with having business for a few weeks out of the previous company and then started to do the sales and the business development. Yeah, you would say it's a startup company without business angels, and they started with about 25 people and moved up to the year 2025 with around about 1,500 people, around about EUR 300 million revenue. I think it's three billion, 3.3 billion SEK, and around about 80,000 square meters production and shop floor. You see over the time we opened up different facilities, different companies. I will explain a little bit more about it, what is our footprint now. Here we go. You can see BMK in Germany.
Our main production in Germany we have in Augsburg. We have a plant which is only for production in the Czech Republic. It's very new, great building. We just expanded it by another 2,000 square meters last year. There you can see our local for local entity in Israel. Here is another one in Augsburg which is doing after-sales services just to name the most biggest one. What are we doing and what are we offering to our customers? Electronics and EMS sounds easy, and it's putting some parts on a green board, a so-called PCB board. We do much more, and BMK is only delivering to industrial customers.
We do not do any consumer goods, and we focus on the most complex electronic manufacturing because this is where we can make a difference for the customer and where we can help him to solve issues. Erik showed the toolbox about what HANZA is doing. I would like to have the same picture, but I try to do it like this. Customers can select whatever they want.
We can do just a part of that, but for sure, we try to give him the whole portfolio starting with the development, which means customer can come to us with the specification, with the product idea and just say, "I need someone who does the development for the electronics." Or he comes because his capacity is very limited to find good engineers in Germany can be hard. He does the outsourcing of some parts of his engineering team to us. We can further go with the layouting, we can do industrialization work. This is really if you come with a problem and we need to start in the very beginning. Our backbone, our core business is then the electronic manufacturing, so really, just to produce products.
There we start with a very successful new business unit. We found it three years ago for fast prototyping. Every engineer needs prototypes. He has a development cycle. He needs a few prototypes every now and then. We said, "This is the best time to step in." Not talking to the buyers, talking to the engineers, sitting in the development department. We opened also up our BMKyourproto, what is an online shop where he can just upload his data, like you can do the configuration of a car in your car dealer's website, and you get a price and can order. This is perfectly for our business as an enabler to come into different markets and customer segments. Supply chain management, very important.
Like Andreas also said, it's getting more and more important, especially after the allocation which you know out of the last few years and the newspapers. This can kill you. You can be as good as you want to, but if you don't have the parts to produce, you are lost. This is what we are focusing on, and we invested a lot of time to think how we can help customers to at least minimize that risk. We have the assembly. We can do everything what you can imagine. As Erik said, just come by and visit us. Normally I do that not in front of investors. I do that in front of customers.
For me, it's always to keep the presentation short and to bring them into the factory because we really can show them what we can do there. We have a big team for test development. It's very important doing the tests through the whole production cycle to avoid that in the end, you invested EUR 500 and then the long time for production, and you have a failure in the electricity which you could have avoided by testing. That's getting more and more important, and we are promoting that to our customers. This is also a USP we have because many other competitors do not have so much knowledge about testing, all the different testers you can imagine.
We will also have cold chambers where you can put the electronics inside, and we just cool it down and warm it up and do some stress tests. Really cool and a lot of things you can do there. We also heard from Andreas, Box Build. Our focus is not just going with the PCBA, so with assembling parts to PCB, we want to do the whole product, and this is also the examples I brought to you. Testing, as I mentioned. Ruggedizing, also more and more important. Ruggedizing means everything you can do to make electronics robust. For example, we produce for one of the main, the biggest companies offering avalanche airbag systems. If you go free skiing, you have this airbag in your back. This is now with electronics.
You can imagine if you go up and you are lucky and you find some place you can go in and then have a cup of coffee, then you have humidity going into the backpack, and the electricity is getting wet. By painting it, by coating it, you can avoid that it is a trouble. This is what we can do. We have our after-sales service department. This is all you can imagine after the product is done and out in the market, if we need to repair something, if we need to exchange some parts, we even do that for competitors. They have built electronics, but in the end, they have a problem and they need some rework or whatever.
Some years ago, we did the repair work for Nintendo in Germany. Everything you can imagine to repair instead of to throw away and to build new, we can offer with our service department. I brought some pictures so that you also can see some insights from BMK, and I wanted to just highlight a few of the USPs we have. I need to make it short because it's a limited time, and I don't want to go into details about the technique. Just to pick out some, we have around about 30 engineers in this development department, which I mentioned, where we can do hardware and software development for customers. We are, I would say, the only, at least German, maybe even European EMS company offering any mix, any volume.
You can see we go up from lot size 1 to 50,000 for production batches. What is really unique because you need to handle that in the logistics and also from the setup of the machines. We have over 400,000 produced systems each month with a really high quality, which can go down to 5 PPM. So it's parts per million. This is really not that easy. We have 5-10 NPIs, so new products we introduce into our production every day. We have an in-house tool construction. We have our own analysis laboratory.
Three, four years ago, whenever you have a defect and you need to make, for example, grinding a part and look what is inside or you cut the PCB and see is there delamination, is there any problem from the PCB supplier, you need to go to external partner. You have three weeks waiting time. We said, "No, it's not an option." We build up our own laboratory, and now we offer that service to our customers. We have our own robotics team. You can see here a robot who is serving a tester. This is the testing which I mentioned. You need to put the PCB inside, you close it, you press start, and then sometimes it runs five seconds, sometimes it's 25 seconds, and the operator needs to wait.
If you have a certain volume, you can automate it. It's very, very economic. We do the whole construction, layouting, and then the setup of this robotic cells by ourselves. Just to mention a few of that, we are not just good in technique, we are overall not so bad. I wanted to show some awards we've got in the last few years, like one of the best companies in Bavaria. We have some resource efficiency prizes, especially with this after-sales unit where we have. Think green, don't throw away, reuse it. We have a lot of supplier awards like here from IDS, one of our big customers.
This is really something we're also proud of because it shows that we do a good job in the daily business. Two examples. On the right side, you see, from the company KUNBUS. It's a German company, and they produce industrial PC, which is based on the Raspberry Pi. They run into problems. They produce that in Germany, and they needed to think about, okay, either I invest a lot in building up a new production with new machines and so on or I outsource. They looked around, and they found a few EMS companies they could outsource that. But then by accident, we met on a fair, and we introduced BMK. They didn't know us so far, because they never had a EMS business going on.
We said, "Oh, we can do that." But we cannot just do the PCBA. We do not just do the electronics. We will do everything. We will do the sourcing, we will do the production, and we will do the logistics. They have customers ordering 1 piece, 5 pieces, 10 pieces, or 1,000 pieces. Whenever they order it online, they think they ordered it at KUNBUS, but in the end, they order it at BMK in Augsburg. We do then the packaging, we do the logistics, and we put it in the package with a KUNBUS tape around, and we ship it out to the customer, and we can do everything out of Augsburg. You see a little bit about what is the services we do there.
The supply chain, we have a lot of components, about 700 components. It's in total 72 different variants. We build up 1,000 from the base, and then we can do the individual variants after that. We take care of 43 suppliers. Exactly what HANZA is doing with mechanics and electronics, we are doing here with the Box Build of electronics. Another example is a snow gun by the company, TechnoAlpin. Some may know it. Especially in Germany, we are rid of snow, so we need a lot of snow guns. It's a cool company from the area of South Tyrol. We started there, so we do not build the snow guns. Maybe it's a business case for the future, but so far, BMK was focusing on electronics.
They asked us if we can start with the development. What they need is some nozzles in the front of that snow gun where the water comes out. They asked us if we can do the development of these nozzles and of this controller of the nozzles because it's really high rocket science. You need to have the right combination of different factors to have the perfect snowflake in the end. Therefore, the nozzles and controller is very important. We did the development. In the end, we built these nozzles with about 30,000 pieces a year, ending up in great snow for us to ski. Here you can see some customers we have.
We are not allowed to show all, but what you see is really that this customer base is out of every industry. There is some big global players, there is some mid-sized companies, there's a lot of hidden champions in there, and of all different industry segments you can imagine. I would say the good thing is, looking at the HANZA portfolio of customers, after that merger, I think it was two or three customers where we both act, but all others we can just put together now. It's really not a lot of correlation. Okay. Why is BMK the right partner for HANZA?
I would say Erik is the best one to explain, but we talked a lot and we've also been together now visiting some of our customers to introduce HANZA and BMK, and I think it's really a great fit, and especially in the current situation. The German market for sure is one of the most important industrial markets you have, especially in Europe. For sure we have some problems, and I think Germany has even more problems than other European countries. I also see a little bit an upside effect now, starting 2026, and hopefully it will continue. Everything changed.
It will not be like it was six years ago, so the demand is becoming much more selective and this ends up that really the technical capability, the flexibility, and also the way you look at customers has changed. It's much more selective now. The good thing is that BMK gives HANZA really a strong local platform in that market. We have around 400 customers. We have around 150 customers where we really have a key account partnership. The other customers, this is, for example, in the prototyping business or in the after-sales business, but we have many contacts and maybe some of these customers we have not delivered a lot of electronic products so far because they don't have the demand.
They may have a huge opportunity and business potential to go there now with the HANZA portfolio, and this makes it really totally different. Together, we have best of electronics and the best manufacturing concept. We have that, I would say global, but at least in Europe, that big footprint. As Andreas said, this is really absolutely great for doing now cross-selling. We can go to all of our customers, and this is what we do now, and in the next month to introduce the portfolio we have. Also going to our customers, as you've seen, we really have some customers, they are delivering globally. Maybe they look for someone who is in Sweden or whatever.
It's totally new and this is really great for the German manufacturing industry, but also to support the German customers to be much more present and much more effective in Europe. For sure, we will hear that later. What we also do now is that we started to go into the defense market. In Germany, we have some defense companies with a long history, but we also have many new startups, especially in Bavaria. This is what we already started some actions and together with HANZA, it's great to expand in that business area too. We heard that integration is very important.
For me it was really, as I think it was last year in summertime, I heard that we will merge together with another company. The reason why the three gentlemen, they do not have problems, but they just got older and they said, "We want to have BMK continuing the business, and we want that BMK at least stays with the values and it stays as a company as it is." This was my first question is, Alois Knöferle, the CEO and owner told me about that, and I said, "Okay, is it a Chinese company? Is it some private equity company just squeezing out money?
Do I need to look for a new position because this is not what I want to?" Then I read some articles about HANZA and I met the gentleman, and that's why I'm still here. It's really a fit. It was from the culture, from the targets, it was a fit. It was not a big Chinese EMS company, taking over BMK to have a dependence in Germany. It's something together, merging the best of electronics with the best manufacturing concept to make something big out of it. Yeah, I think this is also the feeling our colleagues have. The integration is really according to the plan, which just started a few weeks ago. Beginning of January, the closing was done.
We have a good team of a few managers and Lars and Erik. They are in Germany very frequently. Everything is on track. We work close together and as you can see, the ambition is now to grow with the existing customer base, but especially in Germany, I would say we do some cherry-picking and we also selectively add customers who fit to us. On the picture you see this guy here, Hubert Aiwanger. He is the Bavarian Minister of Economic Affairs. We've been to him last week also to introduce the concept and to introduce what HANZA and BMK together is doing.
Also building up now the relationships into the politics, to just be aware and also to have the network into that, as a base to grow in Germany. Okay, so far so good. I hope that gave you impression about what we are doing and what plans we have. Now I invite you to have a coffee break, about 15 minutes, what means at 2:05, we will meet again here and we continue. Thank you very much.
Okay, welcome back. Now we will have the second part of this journey, and then we start with no less than Mattias, who is our manager of our LINX program and more, and has a background in the army.
Close to.
Close to an old officer.
The naval forces.
The naval forces. An officer and a gentleman.
Thank you.
Please go ahead.
Thank you, Erik. Maybe as a second reflection, also reflecting on HANZA and reflecting on some of the words from Florian, two years ago, I was here presenting Orbit One, who then was the latest acquisition. Two years later, we have made 3 more acquisitions, and during that period, I have had 3 jobs, basically. Focusing on the MIGs, making sure that we do large supply chain integrations, then doing a couple of acquisitions, and now taking care of the LINX program. What is the LINX program? It's HANZA's defense initiative. It's how we refocus on the market. HANZA has been in the defense industry for more than 10 years. Please note that. This is not something new. Like, just like Erik mentions that we like to do things in steps, we also like to focus.
Creating an initiative, a program like LINX, enables us to focus, which typically gives good results. What's happening? I mean, we don't have to talk about the global political security stage. We know that it's chaos pretty much. From an industrial side, there is great funding available at the moment. More importantly, from whatever you call it, customer, clients, and market perspective, there is a great need. From a HANZA perspective, we talk a lot about this. This is not only business, this is not money, this is heart and soul. This is about contributing to the future of Europe and helping our comrades and colleagues in the Ukraine. Why is HANZA such a great recipe for the defense market? We focus on regional manufacturing. If you go back and look at most of the current defense giants, they have a regional manufacturing network.
We can supply that. We are, as Andreas mentioned, vertically integrated. We have all the technologies needed, and if we don't have the right technologies, we go get that technology. We have dedicated operations. Currently, I would say we have four sites that are only focusing on the defense industry. If there's a need for more sites, then we will add more sites. We have, through the acquisition of Milectria, we have offset capability, meaning we can help companies and countries to set up an operation to fulfill an offset obligation. On top of that, we have the traditional manufacturing company capabilities to help industrialize, to help scale, to provide compliance, good quality. Last but not least, we have the financial resources to do this.
I think to paint the picture on why we needed LINX and why HANZA fits the picture so well, that's quite easy. What have we done? 10-12 months ago, we all saw President Zelenskyy getting humiliated in the White House. That was actually the starting point of our LINX journey. Erik called me, "Hey, didn't you have a connection in Finland, a good defense company?" Milectria, that we ended up acquiring, was actually a part of the process when we acquired Leden, so we had quite good knowledge of these people. It all ended up in the grand opening in October. 6 months from decision until we have a fully integrated company within our company, focusing only on the defense industry.
The mission of LINX, again, coming back to the heart and the soul, Ukraine, that's a particular thing that we need to focus on, and we're doing our best, and I'll come back to that in a second. The defense industry in Europe, helping Europe to build a strong industrial defense base, that's a significant portion of what we try to do. Of course, this needs to be done in line with, let's say, the market expectations. This is a market that is changing. If you talk to the defense industry today, they will reflect on the past where they did a handful of products per month, or in some cases per year. Now it's ten times that is the requirement.
They have the politicians stating that, "If you're not able to supply, I will go somewhere else." We need to be there and help the defense. I was in Finland last week, attending a defense seminar, and they all talked about the fact that currently they're building the order book, and the next phase, which starts in 2027, is gonna be about delivering the order book. They didn't say it out loud, but you can read between the lines, they don't really know how to do this. They don't really know how to do this, so we need to help them. Of course, with the addition of Florian and his teammates in Germany, now we can really focus on the German market. The defense market in Germany is tremendous.
You need a strong footprint, a bridgehead, as we used to say some 25 years ago, to get into Germany. Now we have that bridgehead. Capabilities and technologies, we talked about that. If there's something that we're lacking, Andreas will go get it. In the end, what we are aiming for is, and it's not a secret that our two current stepping stones are Saab and Patria. Saab through a HANZA acquisition 10, 12 years ago, Patria through the acquisition of Milectria. Those are the stepping stones. We are now actively looking to develop another 4, 5 more of those strategic partnerships. Don't quote me on the number. I spoke to somebody during the break, this market is not about finding opportunities, it's about finding the right opportunities, because this is probably the hottest market right now.
The selection for your future partnership is quite great, I would say. There's a lot of companies. This is also something that is kind of adding a new flavor to the traditional manufacturing industry. This is a market that is somehow saturated by partnerships and joint ventures. Everybody is somehow connected to everybody, which also puts some new requirements on us as a manufacturing partner to these product-owning companies. Where are we right now? What's the status as of today? We have established quite a few, more than I expected, let's say governmental and institutional contacts in the Ukraine, working on trying to find something that we can do for the Ukraine now, not in 2027 or 2028, but next month. We have been to the Ukraine. It's a difficult market.
There are so many companies, and the manufacturing footprint is so diversified, but it's also very much based on basement kind of manufacturing. Could a company like HANZA go in and provide support and aid and help them industrialize and scale up? Absolutely. Again, you need to find the right partner. Drones. Drones is probably the hottest thing that everybody should produce. We have a few active drone programs, both in this country and in a country south of us. We are manufacturing drones just like everybody else is announcing. There's quite a few more drone opportunities in the pipeline. Again, the amount of drone manufacturing companies is hundreds. How do you pick the right ones? That's the critical thing. We think we have picked the right ones. Existing defense customers, we talked about Saab and Patria.
Tremendous collaboration, good partnership, good pipeline we continue to develop. Now with the, let's say, the cross-selling and upselling that comes with buying a new company goes both ways. Whatever we did for Patria with Milectria, we can now do for the rest of HANZA and vice versa. Continue to develop on that. There are a lot of joint ventures around Europe, and one of those is focusing on missile manufacturing. We have a significant opportunity here. We have been able to get through the German market, through the acquisition of BMK, we have been able to get quite far into this, and hopefully we can share some more information, or at least you will see it in the numbers. Coming back to the German market, again, there are so many opportunities.
It's not about finding one, it's about finding the right one. I think with the bandwidth of BMK, the amount of feet on the ground, we will be quite successful in that region. To try and summarize, it's a steadily but slowly growing market segment. This is not something that goes from tens to hundreds and thousands in a year or a month. It takes a couple of years. Reflecting on the market segment split that Andreas showed, we only have 8% today, but it's 8% of SEK 10 billion, meaning it's SEK 800 million. That puts us quite, if you compare us to our colleagues in the business, you will find that we are quite far up even though the percentage is quite low. It's also the segment that has an opportunity to really create a base for long-term growth.
On the right side, we talked about cross-selling and upselling. These are three Milectria customers that are now customers of HANZA. Just looking at the profile of these, the upper one is an unmanned guided vehicle. It's like a robot for delivery of food or ammunition or bringing out wounded soldiers from the battlefield. Reflecting on that product or the launch pad or launch vehicle, whatever you wanna call it, for different types of drones, or of course, the Patria 6x6, the armored personnel carrier. Just reflecting on the capabilities that HANZA have, looking at these end products, I mean, our goal in terms of upselling and cross-selling with these guys is quite significant. Thank you. Then I leave over to Andreas.
Thank you very much, Mattias. Yeah, unfortunately, Diana couldn't be here today, so I will present this part. We heard a lot about our technology, about customers, about defense opportunities. Eric mentioned something in his presentation that cannot be done without people. We have to have people going in the same direction, led by good leaders, so that we can walk in the same direction towards one common goal. Mattias also mentioned here that you were here two years ago as Orbit One, and now you are here as many other things that you are doing. We have gotten in many new colleagues in HANZA. How do we do that?
How do we integrate that, and how do we make them feel welcome in HANZA, but also us that we're in HANZA, what can we learn from the ones that are coming in? At some point, we need to get united. We need to work together in order for us to have this tremendous and good growth that we are trying to obtain. Again, not what I talked about, that we are continuing, we'll continue to grow like this. This is in our DNA. For those of you who have followed us for a long time, you see that the growth of HANZA and what we are doing is we are on constant move. This is here, and it's going to be here forever, and we need to find a way to do that.
We have also, when we acquire companies, it's different cultures, it's different countries, it's different type of companies. There is a strong potential also. If we can integrate this, and when we have the diversity, that will also make us strong. What we say here, Hansa United, but the next one is very important. We are a global company, but with a local heart. What we think is that everything that we can decentralize, we should do. Of course, there need to be some kind of a framework as well, but we believe that it's better. Decisions are better made out there in the regions and the clusters that I talked about before, rather than by us sitting some floors up here in Kista. There must be some standardization where it makes sense, of course. There is a framework, of course.
You cannot go out and buy companies or sell companies out in the factories. That is taken by us. Generally, the philosophy is that we should have the decisions out in the regions. We have five value words that we are working with, and that is what is guiding us, and that is what we are also talking to and living. I think for those of you who have been around the factories, you, I think you can see that we are living those five value words, that we are focused. Talked about that focused of the LINX Initiative. We take ownership for what we do. We are easy. Manufacturing made easy. That is HANZA. We are easy. We are a team player. We work together, and of course, we communicate.
About this with the communication is that we also feel that it's so important now to have the leaders communicating in a good way when we have new colleagues coming in. We have been some leaders in HANZA, we have been doing a communication leadership training for almost two years. I think that is also a good thing that we communicate. You know that communication is something that you don't do just once. You need to communicate and talk about things several times, and maybe for the fifth or the seventh time when it really stuck into the head. Very important also with all the acquisitions that we are doing. I would say that we are the only company that would do this HR due diligence that we are saying. That we are.
You see Diana here, she's our responsible here, so CHRO. She is out there doing checking the company. She went to BMK before the acquisition, looking Florian in his eye and say, "Yeah, this looks good, and we have the same values more or less," and so on. This is also what she's doing with all the acquisitions that we are doing. We're going out there to feel that this is something that really will fit into HANZA. Besides that, there's a good company from a technology point of view, from a customer point of view. That is the first thing. Will it fit HANZA's business concept? Then it is also about the people, that they need to fit as well into HANZA's concept.
Very important that she is out personally to do these due diligence. Then also to identify sometimes it can be risk and red flags, but we may say that we go ahead anyways, but at least we know. That means that the integration module is easier. We talk before what we want in this company, and we act as team players after the acquisition is made, and we start the integration. Here we can see Lars also, our CFO. He will talk soon. This is in Ronneby during the Orbit One acquisition. On the upper picture here, we can see Avi in the middle, head of the factory in Israel, or the gateway in Israel.
Important is now when we go out there and we do in the integration model, then we start to know, and Erik is now in Germany, to make his own picture of how are the people there, what are good leaders, what is potential new leaders, and that is so important. You need to be on site to do that. Then to work together with the team that you have newly acquired so that they feel welcome, they feel positive to come into HANZA. This is a nice company to work on. They also have many good things in these companies that we can learn from. So that we also, coming from HANZA, don't say, "this is the way we do it.
That's the best way." We all need to listen because we are stronger together, right? I think by having this mutual respect for each other, we can always improve. If we listen to each other, we respect each other, then we can improve. Here what you can see, we gather every year the leaders in HANZA, about 50, 60 people, I think now with the—this was before BMK, and now with BMK, maybe it will be up to 70, but let's see what it is. This was last year in November, we gathered the people in the biggest factory that came with the Leden Group acquisition, up in Oulainen, so that up in Ylivieska, really northern part of Finland.
There we talk about, yeah, things that is ongoing in HANZA, things that we will do coming years, depending on where we are in the strategy period as well. We're launching a new strategy, if we're executing on a strategy. It's very good that we together can meet all the leaders, and we can talk. It is also not just a monologue from Eric. All of us, we speak, and also we get people in, and we have work group workshops and so on. I think this is a very well. People, they like this. Of course, the network, not just the official meeting, but also to get together in the evening. That is important because we want the HANZA culture. That is what it is. It's the HANZA culture.
We are not acquiring companies, and we are not having them individually. No. They are coming in, and we are one HANZA. We are HANZA culture, HANZA United, and that's it. Those are the values we live, and we live those. Then again, we need to have our leaders. The leaders need to be good. The leaders need to feel empowered. The leader needs to feel that they are here to be able to decide what is best, and that is also the decentralization that I talked about. Communicate and communicate again, and do it several times. Repeat. Erik does that very well. He repeats the things, and I think that's good because we need to repeat to know where we come from all the time, 'cause then we know where we are going as well. Yes. With that, Lars.
Thank you, Andreas. Is the sound okay? Yeah. All right. You saw me on a few slides back doing this speed camera. So don't you know who to blame if you get caught speeding. It's actually my fault now. I will guide you through HANZA Financials starting with ESG, then HANZA Financials, the development during HANZA 2025, and coming into the new financial targets, and finally, a little bit about the shares. I will try to guide you through what Andreas and also Matthias has promised, investments, and if there's anything lacking within the defense sector, we go out and get it.
I will try to guide you and say that we have quite good financials, and we have the capability to finance the growth that we are planning for. Starting with the sustainability, the ESG, we are struggling right now quite heavily to get the CSRD reporting in place for the annual report. You heard Andreas talking about the HR side, and that is together with the code of conduct and the way we do business, that's sort of the DNA of HANZA. It is not a major thing for us working with sustainability. What we do is, of course, environmental and climate issues, safety, and safety is extremely important.
This kind of business is and can be dangerous, so we have always direct information up to the top-level management if there are any accidents or incidents. Employees, as Andreas said, we're working a lot with getting the personnel, the employees to have the same atmosphere or the same spirit as we have in the top management. The focus areas right now, integrate BMK, get them to work in the same way, as we do in HANZA, and also report the ESG KPIs. Accidents, I talked about. Corruption, keep it at the zero level. We've been proud not having any major incidents about corruption. Continue to try to reduce the ESG KPIs that we measure and present in every quarter report.
Coming into the financial development, I promised to present quite impressive growth during HANZA 2025. As Erik mentioned, in 2022, when we started HANZA 2025, we were on SEK 3.5 billion. You can see the development on the graph to the right, and now coming into HANZA 2026 with a SEK 10 billion turnover. We have an organic growth in 2025 with 3%. In Q4, it was up to 10%, so we see it increasing during the year. Including acquisitions, pro forma figures, we are on SEK 6.5 billion in sales for 2025.
We, as mentioned before, we closed the deal with BMK in January, and with BMK of approximately a little bit more than 3 billion SEK, we're on SEK 10 billion in sales starting 2026. We have quite amazing growth. We have during HANZA 2025, 20% growth annually. The profit when we started HANZA 2025, we were in 6% EBITA level. We are entering into 2026 together with BMK of approximately 8%, just doing math of what we have presented. BMK being on 7.3%, HANZA being on 8.3% leads to 8% margin. Now remember this 8% 'cause coming back to the financial goals.
We have also during the period, we have increased the earnings per share, and that is also important. When we do acquisitions, we dilute the share. It's important to keep the profit per share to increase that and give the shareholders back a better return on their investment. Return on capital employed also important to continue to increase. We are on 30.5% in 2025. We were a little bit close to 11% three years ago. We have many times talked about the fact that other markets, what we have, we separate the financial segments in other markets and main markets.
We have been discussing and saying for a long time that there's really no reason for other markets to have a lower margin than main markets, but it was like that for many years. The main reason for having the difference in main markets and other markets was the maturity and the size of the clusters that Andreas talked about. Now, we have five quite good clusters, and we see that during this period, actually, other markets were a little bit higher than main markets in 2025. We expect that to continue, not to see any major difference between other markets and main markets.
I will come back to, 'cause we will divide it into regions, but there's no real reason for having a lower margin in parts of HANZA and higher margins in other parts of HANZA. Also, between the quarters, we will see that different clusters, different segments will differ in profitability, and also in sales due to the fact that we also are selling between the clusters and between the segments. Don't focus too much on one quarter sales or results. Financial, CapEx and net debt, extremely important in our business. We have a quite big need of balance sheet. We need stock. Stock that we buy for the customers. It's not for us. It's for the customers that they buy stock.
We need to have control over CapEx, we need to have control over the working capital and the net debt. I think we've been quite good in doing that. Depreciation, we focus on EBITA when we talk about profitability, not EBITDA. The reason is that we have a depreciation. That's a natural part of HANZA's P&L. We have approximately 4% in depreciation, and investments were 3.3% last year. The main sort of message is that CapEx follows organic growth. We have a delay in from when we order the investments until we actually get them delivered. You can see also on the right that we have decreased CapEx during the year. We had a really strong increase in 2023.
We took decision on some investments, and now we've been able to decrease the CapEx. We have done really good acquisitions, not needing so much CapEx. That's also something that is strong with acquisition. Net debt. We are on 1.9 times the EBITDA. We have set the goal to not be above 2.5 times the net debt. You can see during this HANZA 2025 period that we've been below this target. If you look into the details of these figures, you can see that we've been quite good in doing acquisitions, being able to squeeze out working capital, repay the loans to the bank, have the possibility to continue to invest, to continue to do acquisitions.
That is important for us as well, to have control over the balance sheet and have the capability to continue to grow organically and grow by acquisitions. We have a working capital which is approximately 15% of the sales in 2025. Net debt to equity ratio is 0.7. Looking into the financial development, starting with to the right, the old HANZA, so to say, the HANZA without acquisitions. Quite strong development, close to 10%, 9.9% in Q4 2025. We are in Q4, we were on SEK 1.8 billion in turnover with 9% margin. If you take 1.8 times four, we are well above the 6.5 billion SEK, which was our financial goal for HANZA 2025.
Coming back to these pro forma figures, including Leden the full year, including Milectria for the full year, we reached 6.5 billion SEK with 8.3% margin. We are entering into HANZA 2026 with a quite strong performance in the end of HANZA 2025, and fulfilling all the financial goals that we set up for HANZA 2025 that we actually also increased during the period. Looking down to the right, I actually started in HANZA back here. Not really sort of believing if someone were to show me this graph when I started in 2009. New financial targets. Again, we are right now on the 10 billion SEK turnover with 8% margin. We've increased the earnings from 6% to 8%.
We are coming into HANZA 2026 or starting the HANZA 2028 period with SEK 10 billion and 8% margin. We are increasing the profitability target to 9%. We are at 8% right now. The sales up to SEK 14 billion in 2028. We keep the same way of measuring sales and profitability. That it is pro forma figures, so whatever acquisition we might do in HANZA in 2028 will be calculated for the full year. The reason for having this quite aggressive financial targets is that we have a business model that proven to be good, working well together with also what Mattias said about the defense sector growing.
We expect together with acquisition that we will be able to reach SEK 14 billion in turnover with a profitability of 9%. A few remarks. We are heavily Euro company now, with most of the sales is in Euro. If the currency rate of Euro towards SEK is changing, the financial goals will be either easy to fulfill or hard to fulfill. We are measuring it towards the Euro-SEK currency level that we have today, approximately 11 crowns. I also already talked about the pro forma figures. Andreas presented new organization, and he said that we combine the clusters into regions. We also have a manager for the regions. We will, starting from 2027, report according to the new organization, to the three segments, the three regions.
We will continue to have a fourth segment, which is a group, what you call it? Business development and services it was before. Now it's going to be business development. The reason for not starting already now with reporting in these regions is what also Andreas said, that we will keep BMK and Milectria as special projects during 2026. We will integrate it into the other operations, somewhere during 2026, and then we from first quarter 2027, we will report according to the new organization. The share development been very strong during HANZA 2027. And also what's positive, we can see quite good trading in the HANZA share. We have approximately 120,000 shares traded every day, and 647 closed deals every day.
It's also we see that it's easy or possible for investors to go out of the share as well, which is important to attract owners and trading. The market cap is today approximately SEK 10 billion, and since 2023, we had close to 300% increase of the share price or return on investment. Then Florian showed pictures of the three owners of BMK. It was a share swap, share deal with BMK. They are now owning 9% each, so they are number 2, 3, and 4 on the shareholders list. The largest shareholders is still Färna Invest and Gerald Engström, owning close to 17%. Then we have some financial institution and we see that we attract more and more financial institutions over time.
Also important, the management owns quite large sum, at least for us, of HANZA shares in our private economy. By that, I leave over to Q&As.
Okay. Let's stand up, all of us.
Stand up. Yes
be ready to answer all the questions. Now is the time to pop the difficult questions.
Provocative questions. Anders.
Mike? No mic. Oh, she's coming by.
She's coming. Yeah.
Thank you. I could have shouted, but maybe easier.
Thank you. I'd like to ask a bit firstly on the recently announced end market split, which was much appreciated. Could you elaborate a bit on what growth levers you see here across the different end markets? Obviously, defense you spoke about, but across the remaining sort of divisions with electrification and such. That'd be interesting.
The growth from the different customer segments-
Yeah
That's what you'd like to see. We haven't published that. We have said that the defense segment is the smallest segment, and then you have to remember that it's close to zero from BMK, so it's larger from old HANZA, and that's the one with the highest potential now, like Mattias was explaining. In general, we see good growth from different companies inside each segment. In electrification, we have a few drivers. Maybe it's better for you, Andreas, to walk me through.
Well, yeah, I would say we have, like you say, we have a couple of customers in every segment that we believe is going to grow. We are right now also analyzing. We just launched these segments, so we're analyzing besides defense segment, we're analyzing what would the potential be, and we are also setting the targets. We have the 14 billion there, and we are also going to set the targets. What is the growth that we have that we see now on these segments? Of course, we have an idea as of now, but that is the work that is ongoing.
Mm.
We see potential customers with good growth potential in every segment.
Right. Well, makes sense. On BMK, as you mentioned, Erik, I mean, following some headwinds in the German economy in recent years, I take it that you have some spare capacity in production. Could you say anything in terms of kind of what that spare capacity could relate to? What sort of customer groups you would like to fill that with? You know, where is the potential there?
Maybe that's a question for you, Florian. What is the spare capacity?
Yeah. As we have shown also some pictures, you saw the production facilities we have, and for us, we have two things to grow. We can either grow in space if we have projects and customers who want to outsource something, we have enough space to grow. And we can rent new halls or whatever. This is what we did and what we can do. And we can also grow by going into a third shift, a night shift, or whatever. This is not a problem also in Augsburg. When you come and visit us, you see we have industrial zones, but there is enough space to grow. Defense is definitely something, and we have other customers areas which recover.
As I mentioned, we have no consumer goods, and this is what we want to avoid. We have no own products like HANZA, so we are absolutely depending on the customer. What we ask them is, which problem can we solve? The good thing is really that we see an overall recovery coming in this year, but it will be very slow. Electronics product also has some, let's say, about 12 months before you see finally production going out of the stock.
Florian, if I would say that BMK is a chainsaw that can cut down any tree, what would you say about that?
Yeah, I know that. Oh, for sure. I say it's true. We can do whatever you want. This is what we tell to our customers.
Thank you, Florian. Final question, if I may. On margins, I mean, you guide for, you know, at least 9%. As you mentioned, we saw close to 10% in Q4 now. While I think we understand that BMK might weigh a bit in the near term, could you just longer term kind of elaborate a bit on the trade-off between, you know, top line growth, margins? Should one view 9% as conservative or prudent? That would be interesting.
You take it?
Leave it to you.
I think as I said, 8% is where we're starting right now. Increasing that by 1% up to 9%, together with a quite aggressive target on some net sales development, it is a fair value. What we also see is when we talk to customers, we have an expectation from the customers on where to be in profitability. Our belief is that 9% is okay. Double digit might be too high. That's sort of the reason for adding this together and then coming into 9%.
Some of your competitors are maybe a bit too high then in that sense.
Hold for the mic.
You need the mic.
Yeah. Just following up on that, I mean, should one view it as kind of vying for market share gains from competitors then, which maybe are a bit more aggressive on pricing, to be honest?
They do their decision on where they want to be and what they think is doable. If they believe 10%, then they believe in 10%. We believe in 9%. But what is important is in the end that we grow the net result and the profitability per share. If it is with 9% or 10% or 8%, still.
Yeah.
The final result is what counts.
Thank you.
Thank you. I had a question on the implied growth rate here going forward for the next three years. If you could provide a rough breakdown of organic versus M&A, and then also on the organic side, increased volumes from existing customers and/or versus new customers onboarding at HANZA?
We have not given that split. We have said historically we've grown both organically and by acquisition, and we also believe that acquisition is feeding the organic growth because we don't buy a company to be big but to be better. When we add new competence, it's also easier to grow organically. Before the BMK acquisition, we were about 50/50 historically, but we haven't given any split, moving forward.
On existing versus new customers?
No guidance there as well.
That's fair. Thank you.
You know, I can comment because we say that was what Andreas was stating, that we do believe in business development rather than sales, meaning that we believe they have a very strong customer portfolio, and upselling and cross-selling that Matthias was talking about is a very important part. Expect also to grow with existing customer base.
Thank you. A question maybe for Florian and Lars as well. The working capital situation at BMK versus the sort of the current level at HANZA. Is there any large differences there or any synergies expected so far?
We haven't disclosed the balance sheet of BMK yet. We will do that with the purchase price allocation in the annual report. You will see it there. There is a difference in Germany towards the rest of HANZA that they are not using the supplier debts as much as we do in the rest of HANZA. They have this way of paying early and you get some discount. That's something that we definitely will work on trying to get into normal supplier debts. We also see synergies both on the cost side, being a bigger sourcing power. We have historically been good in reducing the working capital.
I will not promise that we can do that in BMK, but that's definitely the goal.
That's very clear. Thank you.
Other side.
Thank you. Thank you for a few solid presentations there as well. I was wondering if you could spend a minute on the major obstacles for entering the defense segment with the BMK now coming in as a potentially new supplier here?
I would say the biggest challenge in the defense segment is the, as mentioned, they are going from 10s and maybe in some cases 100s to 1,000s and 10,000s of the same product. It's moving a whole industry from craftsmanship to industrial manufacturing. That's the main challenge. Coming from the EMS industry, being used to working with forecasting, purchase orders, deliveries, the defense industry is more like we allocate a frame order, we develop the product in parallel, orders will come as soon as the product is mature enough, and we are ready to ramp up. Market maturity, I would say, is the biggest challenge we have. That, of course, level of maturity is different if you're in Sweden or if you're in Germany or if you're in Finland.
All right. I get that. Thank you. You've previously said that BMK also has an extremely efficient production with PPM under 5. What is the major success factor here? Is it the large Augsburg plant, or is it anything else that you might be able to copy into HANZA?
Yeah, as I said, it's depending a little bit on the products, but in the end it's all about as a EMS company to really have a lot of experience, to have the best-in-class machines, to have experienced people, and to have that NPI processes, so this new product introduction. This is what we are focusing on. Then it depends for sure if you have a product running 50,000 pieces a month or if you have one which is just running 500 pieces a month and about the complexity of its board.
It's all about quality, and this is what we at BMK are focusing on. That's why we are, so to say we are not the cheapest ones, but we are the best ones. Customers visit us, and they see our whole quality team, the process we have installed, how we run our production, how we prepare production, what focus we take on the tools we use for the production, and this all together ensures that best-in-class quality and this is what the customers want to have. For sure, we already started to work together with HANZA. We have exchanges, people from HANZA plants come to Augsburg and the other way around to make workshops and this will end up to be in best practices.
Can I add to that? We have just this week people from Årjäng in the factory in Årjäng. You know that one, yeah? Also from Ronneby. They are all in Augsburg this week. Of course, like I said during my presentation as well, that we are going to not just impose what we do in HANZA. We are, of course, learning from what is good in the companies that we acquire, and this is typically one thing that we will see what they are doing and how can we move that into the HANZA factories.
Are there any specific, levers here that you might be able to pull?
Sorry, what was the question?
Are there any specific measures here that you can take?
The measures I think we can take. I think that is something that we are going to work on and the benchmark and to be, and now we are in that phase, more of the analysis phase where we are visiting each other, getting a good understanding. From that one, we are going to work with that. Of course, one of the goals that we have with the factories is the quality. We have the delivery precision, we have the quality, of course, as operational targets, and that is something that we are going to work together, and we are following it up in my team on a monthly basis as well.
Maybe also mention that this is what you've done also on mechanic side with the Oulainen and Tartu.
Yeah. Yeah
... Töcksfors.
Yeah, exactly. We are creating forums. We have a forum, electronics forum, where we have all the factories within that are producing the electronics. We have the factories producing the sheet metal, the one, the couple of millimeters, in Oulainen, in Tartu, and in Töcksfors, the big ones. They are collaborating, they are working, doing benchmarks, and by that, something good will happen, continuous improvements. We are starting it up also for machining. We have those forums in order to get the collaboration between the factories in an organized way.
Yeah. All right. Just one last question from my end. It would be great if you could tell us anything about the backlog for BMK. Last you said EUR 300 million, and will you be able to defend that based on the current market situation and backlog? I know you don't like this question, Erik, but perhaps you can say something.
That will start on a EUR 300 million level, and then we go upwards.
All right. Well.
That's what you get.
Yeah. Could have known. Thank you.
Thank you. One question. There was, I guess, a bit of speculation heading into today that you might be launching a new market, perhaps, North America or India, large top markets. You didn't today. Could you maybe talk a bit about how you see those markets?
Yeah, we have gone the other way. We believe in manufacturing in Europe for Europe. We see there is a big need for that, and that's where we would like to be in this phase. Yes, it's true, it could have been a geographic expansion due to geopolitics. It was not. We decided to stay in Europe and further develop our operations here. There will be a next phase also. If you come again in three years, maybe there will be a geographic expansion.
Could you maybe just say something about your exposure to North America? How big a share of sales is that?
We have said it's a minor part 'cause we believe in local manufacturing, so produce locally and not shipping so much abroad. That also means that should we take market shares in the U.S., we need to be present there.
Finally, maybe on the LINX pipeline, large orders. The last one I've seen is the drone order from last autumn. Yeah. Any comments on that?
We are working with the pipeline like everybody else, and, as soon as we can communicate something in terms of realization, we will do so.
Thank you.
Yeah, we can move on. Do you want to?
I can ask a final one, since we have time. On BMK, I mean, given that it's a single very large site, mainly, in terms of kind of adapting this to your cluster model, I know you're spending a lot of time there, but what's kind of the main aspects you're focusing on, the main potential bottlenecks in terms of kind of transitioning BMK to fit, you know, the cluster model that you have elsewhere?
That's exactly HANZA 2028, to grow it into a cluster. I think we have given the directions, but we will not give any details. Andreas, would you add something how we will do this? How much can we say?
No, but I can say that we have, of course, respect, and that's, I think, the answer to your question as well. We have respect for the size of BMK and not just, okay, from day after acquisition, we put it into the current structure, and we just do something else. It is so important that we get that in a good way so that we are not destroying the good company that BMK is today. I'm not saying that we're going to destroy it, but it can easily be so that we can lose talents, we can lose people that are very important in this integration.
As I showed there, it's very much intended to do it slowly, identify the leaders in BMK that will then also drive the integration in a good way with HANZA. I think the way that we have chosen to do this now, we're having it as a special project, run it separately, we will find out more and learn more about the company, and by that, we can put it into HANZA in a structured, calm, and controlled way. Florian, I don't know if you would like to add something. No.
No, I can add something from, let's say Milectria perspective, because Milectria is a similar case, even though we are significantly smaller. The market does not want the defense industry to consume all the capacity. We listen to that, and we have special factories. To enable focus on those special factories, we agreed to run it as a separate initiative for one year or fourteen months or whatever it takes. It's all about listening to the market. I think that's a key message here.
Very good. Thank you.
Okay. Let's read some posts from the webcast chat. We have gotten some questions. Some of them might have been already covered in your answers, but I will read them for you. First, from a shareholder: As shareholders, we would like to understand HANZA's strategic roadmap regarding next-generation manufacturing technologies, specifically AI, automation, and robotics. What concrete investments are planned over what timeframe, and how will these initiatives impact competitiveness and long-term value creation?
That's a very valid question, and we spend a lot of time on that. Andreas, what can you reveal?
No, what I can say is just a bit repeating on what I said at the time during my presentation. It is, of course, extremely important in automation and robotization. I think if you go to a HANZA factory today, you will see that we have come very far when it comes to automation and robotization. This is what we're going to leverage and take on the next step. I know in BMK, you also are very far when it comes to automation in your production. I think that combining these two and work with that, and we also have a forum with automation. How can we improve automation in HANZA? That's also part of the program that we're going to do during these years now, 2028.
We are where we are, and I would say I would evaluate that we are in a good position where we are today, but together now, we are going to move it into even better position. AI, I think that AI is. We need to be careful not that becomes a buzzword. What is AI? AI is something, but we need to see what are the concrete cases and what are the concrete use cases that we can apply AI on, so that we are not getting the just an AI like that. We need to identify what is the problem that we would like to solve and how do we solve it today. Are we solve it with a lot of manual hours that cost a lot? That is what we're going to apply AI on, not just the other way around.
We have AI, and what can we do?
Thank you. Here is the next one, a long one. The next phase, it's about adding technologies to the existing clusters. Does it mean that the big M&A period is over and that the future 2028 investments will be coming via CapEx, expansions, machines, robots? Will there not be any other cluster creation in a different geography, USA, South America? Would it be possible that the gateways become future clusters with add-on acquisitions or expansions? Thanks a lot for the presentation. Please let me know if I should repeat some of those.
Lot of questions.
Yes.
First of all, we will not add geographies. Secondly, we will not build clusters out of the gateways. We will still evaluate acquisitions depending on what is best. Make or buy. Some of the technologies take very long time to create the competence. Some of the technologies is easy for us to implement. That's a trade-off that you are working with if you should buy a company or if you do it organically.
Again, to repeat on that one, that the clusters, they there is no strategy that they should look exactly the same. The clusters, they are there to serve the customers that they have in the clusters, and then we should have the best setup of technologies in that cluster for the customers we have there. If there is a new customer potential that could come in, I also mention here that we are prepared to set up tailored solution to produce those. To set up tailored sites to produce for those, but always with the return on investment thinking.
Yeah. I think there was a question about CapEx, and CapEx, as I said, it's a natural part, a normal part of our ongoing business, so we need to invest in both new buildings and new machines to replace old machines, but also to invest in robotization, automation. That will continue as well.
Thanks. Next one about customers. How much lower costs and potentially lower working capital can you promise to customers in general if they consolidate their supply chain to HANZA? What does prevent or hinder customers to change more traditional setup to HANZA's consolidated model?
Would you give a number, Lars?
No. No, what we know is reducing the number of suppliers, having a more secure supply chain, of course, releases the need of stock and working capital for the customer. That one we can really show the customers when we negotiate and discuss with them. I cannot give any numbers, of course.
Can I add something, Jonas?
I think the key challenge in consolidating or rewiring a supply chain is to find the ample time to focus together with the product-owning company. Because typically markets evolve and move in such pace that it's difficult to take that time, and really step back, and look at your current supply chain, and then work together to figure out the most optimal supply chain. We can improve in convincing the customer that they need to do this, but I would also challenge some product-owning companies and say, "Hey, maybe sometimes we need to listen a bit as well, and not only push forward. You can do things better if you do it in a different way.
Good. Thank you. One last question so far. What is optimal size of manufacturing cluster in your thinking?
Optimally, it cannot be too big. It can only be too small. We found out, and Lars talked about this, it's about EUR 100 million or 700 people, that's the size we like to have to be efficient. We can continue to grow and add technologies. There's no upper limit.
Thank you. That's all questions from the chat.
Okay. If there are no more questions, maybe I could end the day by just highlighting a few of our key messages. We talked about our business model, that we consolidate suppliers, and that's been highly appreciated by the market. We talked about our execution model, that we build HANZA step by step, and right now, today, we launched HANZA 2028. We talked about how important it is to diversify a customer base, a customer base consisting of leading companies from different industries, and that we now also will aim to increase the part of defense. We talked about people and culture. Extremely important for us to make sure that the companies we bring into HANZA are processed through these HR due diligence, that we keep a culture so we can exchange people between the factories, between the clusters.
We talked about how important it is to be transparent, to not only give you numbers, but also talk about our strategy, our plans, and also invite you to our factories. That's really important. By that, thank you so much for joining us today, both in the room and online, and I hope you learned a little bit more about HANZA today. Thank you.