Welcome, everyone, to this Capital Markets Day. Again, my name is Fredrik Meuller. I've been with the company now for a year and a half. The honeymoon is definitely over, but I'm really, really happy about the time I've had with Inwido so far. And great to see so many of you here. I think, as Ulrika said, it really signals the interest that we're seeing in the Inwido share, in the Inwido company, and the very exciting, profitable growth journey that we are on and that we are fully committed to. You've seen the press release perhaps already about today. We stick to this roadmap, which is very clear, and we are successfully executing on this roadmap already. We stick to our financial targets. And in a nutshell, of course, Inwido is a top three player within its field in Europe. We're number one in the Nordic region.
We're number two in the U.K. We now added Slovenia, thankfully, to our Europe presence as well, which is super exciting. We'll talk more about that a little bit later on. We are in a historic downturn for the third year running, which is super painful, but I think we do it really well. We retain a reasonably high margin level. And of course, we are super well positioned for when the market does turn around again. When that happens, no one really knows, but we have some light at the end of the horizon already for next year, I think. It feels a bit more optimistic looking into 2026.
Organic growth will come in the form of a bounce back in the pent-up demand within both renovation and new build, plus, of course, the Green Deal, the EPBD directive that will be implemented now across all of Europe in 2026 already, that will provide some additional tailwind. As you've seen, hopefully already this week, we had two early Christmas crackers, one in the U.K. and one in Slovenia, two really nice acquisitions that, in a way, compensate for the lack of organic growth so far. Again, fully committed to the roadmap. This is basically the story in a different illustration. Organic growth will have to, realistically speaking, we need to grow by 15% per annum, and that's the sort of CAGR to reach our 2030 growth target, or 20 billion SEK. No, we're not stressed up about that target.
We are not going to do acquisitions just for the sake of it. We will continue to do clever deals, just like we've done in the past. But the organic growth will come from, as I said, some kind of normalization of demand in this market. And we hope and we're beginning to see some signs of improvement. Sweden is one very good example. We'll talk more about that later on. And it typically starts in the renovation, and then new build is a little bit later. EPBD, Energy Performance of Buildings Directive, is again a new EU directive that will be legislation across all of the EU countries already in 2026. We think that the impact will start to show up probably in the second half of next year, and it will differ a bit from one market to another.
Then, of course, we have our own organic growth initiatives. We are working a lot with pricing, fantastic tool, fantastic lever to use that some of our entities are really good within already, but some are climbing the learning curve rapidly. On top of that, of course, we're launching new products and we're entering new markets. And last year, I entered the new segment of sun, not sun protection, solar shading. I've been told sun protection is Nivea cream, a sunblock. Solar shading is what it's really called when you have the awnings and the jalousie, etc. And again, M&A will have to cover at least near to medium term for the lower than expected organic growth. So out of the 15% CAGR, I think, relatively speaking, some 10 percentage points will come from M&A and 5 percentage points from organic growth.
The right-hand side of this picture is really, really important because at the end of the day, all of that new volume will have to run through a much more operationally effective and efficient platform. We have invested a hell of a lot into new machinery, leaner factories, etc., etc. We invested into our people, and with that comes an expectation of payback, of course, so we should see higher profitability when the new volume does come in. On top of that, of course, we're working with our portfolio quite a lot. You will recall perhaps that last year in Q4, we shut down one entity, a smallish one in the U.K. called Jack Brunsdon, and actually this week in Finland, we have shut down another one called Finluft, a smallish one, restructuring charge of EUR 200,000 roughly, so nine people in that entity.
Small, but you come to a stage where you can look yourself in the mirror and say, we gave it our best shot, where we have put a lot of management time into trying to turn the business around. But again, a historic downturn. Finland sort of activity-wise is at an all-time low at the moment, and some of our entities are literally down to the bone chewing. And I think, having said that, I think we are to a large extent actually doing better than the rest of the market. But this is so this was a sign of us proactively trying to prune the portfolio a bit because at the end of the day, people like Antti, in this case, need to spend their time also on the top-performing entities.
There's an opportunity cost here of him and the other BA EVPs spending a lot of time on some of the underperforming entities. Let's then dig into or jump into Inwido and what makes Inwido so unique. You're very familiar with the overall setting, I think, already. But of course, as I said earlier, number one in the Nordic region, number two in the U.K., we have a very unique decentralized governance structure that is also very attractive when we make acquisitions. So I think that model, which I'll come back to in a second, to a large extent also explains why we have managed to retain our profitability as such a decent level despite the downturn and despite previously some dilutive acquisitions.
And again, through the acquisition in Slovenia earlier this week, we can soon, once we have closed it, which will happen, I think, early next year, we can add that to the map as well. Some people, of course, ask, why do you have so many factories? Why don't you have one large factory in the Baltic states or in Poland that could cater for all of Europe? Well, it doesn't really work like that, at least not if you ask Inwido. We take pride in being very, very local. This industry, which I'll talk about, is lacking standards to a large extent, and every single window is unique. So we have to be close to the carpenters, we have to be close to the resellers, and we have to be close to the end customers at the end of the day. That's why we have these factories.
But it doesn't mean that they are just running their own show in a way. We work a lot horizontally to try to get the synergies out and to share best practices between all of these entities. A quick run-through of the BAs. We have four BAs, as you know. Scandinavia with Mats at the helm is the largest one and doing well overall. And this is where it all started once upon a time. We're the number one in this part of the world, and we added an acquisition a few months ago called RM Snickerier in Vimmerby. Very, very nice one, a very profitable one, and already contributing nicely to our group. Lots of brands. You rarely see the Inwido brand. Sometimes you may see something like Elitfönster, part of Inwido Group, but the focus is really on the business units.
A lot of these brands are, I would say, from the upper medium to premium, premium segment. Some of these brands deliver to the royal castles in the Nordic region. Western Europe, which is in our case England, Scotland, and Ireland so far. We are, of course, looking into expanding this territory into Benelux and other countries as well. Of course, a tricky macroeconomic setting at the moment. At the same time, we are doing rather well here. I'll get back to that. Jonna is heading that business area. Here, of course, we added Fast Frame two months ago, an acquisition in Nottingham. No, Ulf, it was not because Malmö FF was playing there against Nottingham Forest. We really liked the business. Of course, this week we have added Victorian Sliders based in Wales.
Ireland, stronger as an economy, and Scotland a little bit better than England as well, which they are always very keen to tell the Englishmen, by the way. Eastern Europe, which is Finland and Poland and now Slovenia. The Finns are not too happy about being referred to as Eastern Europe, but so we may change this to East or something early next year. Again, at a historic all-time low at the moment, Finland super, super tough. But let's not forget, just a year and a half, two years ago, these entities were literally the stars of the Inwido portfolio. Yeah, the drop is often quite fast, but also the pickup is pretty fast. We have, of course, expectations here that when the market turns around, these entities will again perform really, really well.
As I said, we're taking some proactive measures to restructure the portfolio, and we keep cutting costs, but we do it in a clever way. We don't throw out all the strategically important assets that would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Strong brands as well. Artic, again, in solar shading, we added a year ago. Solar shading is an area that we are increasingly interested in. Typically, when people buy windows, they often ask, can you also provide solar shading? I want an awning or even pergolas and what have you. If you move down into Southern Europe, this is happening already. A lot of the window manufacturers there already provide this. And margin-wise, they are on a totally different level compared to the traditional window and door business. Here we're talking EBIT of 15%, 20%, 20% plus in some cases.
So it is relevant for us because we see sales synergies here. So part of our M&A acquisition strategy that Björn will talk about later on is including solar shading. And there are quite a few companies to pick up also in that field. It's also a fragmented market. E-commerce, last but not least, headed by Bo, doing well and has historically shown a little bit higher growth pace than the other BAs. And as you can tell, we are in somewhat more markets here geographically. We've added a Sparokna brand. So we're also now in Poland, and we're on the verge of entering the Czech Republic. Also taking some restructuring measures this year. So now it's more of a lean and mean machine, meaning that also here when we see a volume coming back, we will have again higher profitability figures.
I think this, I mean, we're on an exciting journey thus far, and I think it's quite impressive that we've managed to retain this margin level throughout the troughs of the market. And don't forget that some of the acquisitions that we do, the classic family-owned entities that we buy, they typically have a lower profitability level than the Inwido target. So we need to get going on synergies literally day one, and we do. But I think also the Inwido model with the decentralized structure is one reason for why we can retain this profitability despite having lost 20%-30% of our volume over the last two to three years and still also maintaining a very solid dividend payout ratio. We have unique in-house expertise and experience when it comes to doing transactions. Again, we're not stressed up about doing deals just for the sake of it.
We won't do that. We have a reputation to be aware of and to manage. So we are very, very selective. And as I've said several times already this year, we have a few months ago also decided to jump off one or two processes because it just didn't feel right. And yes, we take some hits when it comes to transaction costs related to it, but it's so worth it, I have to say. And the model that we have is very attractive. I think the Slovenia case that I'll talk about later on is as a classic Inwido acquisition where we buy 70% and we have a call/put option set up for the family. They retain the brand, they retain the management team, the factory, but they get access to the full synergy potential upside literally day one. That's super attractive.
This is partly what makes Inwido unique compared to many of our peers. We don't stand or fall with one particular customer, one particular segment, one particular geographic market. Rather, we have a really broad exposure, and it's of course supposed to be even broader going forward. Through the Sidey Group acquisition in Q3 2023, we have a little bit more project exposure these days, but that's been a fantastic acquisition for us. They're doing a fantastic job and an inspiration for the rest of the group as well. But of course, it ties up a little bit more working capital, and it means that the order book has a longer tail than what it used to have. I mean, here we're talking projects that can be up to two years with a delivery lead time of two years.
And I'm sure you recall that exactly one year ago when we had last year's Capital Markets Day, we had Steve here from Scotland who presented then the to date two largest projects within Inwido, GBP 22.5 million. This is what Inwido is all about. And some of you will have seen this picture before. It's really der Pudels Kerne, as the Germans would say. And a lot of companies say that they are decentralized. At the same time, you look at the head office, big head office, you look at the staff functions at different levels of the organization. So some staff functions at the BA, BU, PA level. I'm coming from some of those companies myself. So how decentralized are you really? Here we're talking about, I think we're 16 people now in the head office. So it's very small and niche, which we like.
We probably need to add, and we're actually looking into now adding one or two resources because if we're going to double the size of this group, we need just more people to help out not only doing acquisitions, but also ensuring that we get the synergies and we get the best practice sharing across. So the BA level is literally four individuals sitting in this room. Full stop. Literally full stop. Then we have some shared services setups in, yeah, particularly in the Nordic region. But that's pretty much it. The focus is really on the 36, soon 38 business units. So if you're an MD here, you're literally running your own company. So we want them to be entrepreneurial. They are fully empowered, but with the responsibility also comes accountability.
So we measure all BUs on the same KPIs, meaning that we can benchmark them and they can themselves benchmark their own performance against 35 others. So it's really a really unique setup that works really, really well. And we have no intention of changing this. Again, it's also very attractive for whoever considers to sell his or her family business at some stage. Moving into the, let's say, the bigger picture, the industry as such. It's easy, of course, in these sort of doom and gloom days, and again, the third year of a recession, to forget about the de facto very strong intrinsics and fundamentals of this business. At the end of the day, people need windows and doors, right? So let's not forget that. Just a normalization of demand will mean a substantial uptick in growth. Why do we do deals in the U.K?
Fredrik, you say it's a tough market, etc. Why do you do it? Well, first of all, it's the second largest window market in Europe. So let's not forget that. And secondly, a lot of these companies are niche players and doing it really, really well. I think the two acquisitions we've done this year are two very good examples of that. But as you can see, we have very many white spots on our map. So again, we're a top three player in Europe, but we're only really covering U.K. and a tiny part of Poland. So this is, of course, linked to the M&A strategy that Bjorn will talk about later on. And in terms of roll-ups of this market, it's literally really only us and Dovista that are on the acquisition track so far.
Then, of course, you have some financial players, PE players that already own a few of the companies in this universe. And some of them, I'm sure, are also thinking about doing some roll-ups. We do come across one or two of them when we are involved in structured auction processes. Like over the last 12 months, we've seen one or two of them. Dovista, if you don't know, Dovista is part of a foundation in Denmark called VKR. Velux windows, I'm sure you're familiar with that brand. They are also in that foundation. And they have like a 60% global market share. Super profitable company. So they inject a lot of capital into the VKR group, capital that Dovista gets access to. So they have been very active and they're doing it well.
To some extent, we are, of course, happy about that as well because we get an even more professional owner of these businesses. But yeah, lots of M&A opportunities. And the industry is just really, really fragmented. We're talking 10,000 typically small to medium-sized family-owned companies. So lots of opportunities to consolidate the market. Historically, the growth has been 3%-4%. And again, it's a very, very local business. So it is really tricky to get in here for an outsider. The relationships with carpenters, resellers are super strong. And the brands are really, really strong. So at the end of the day, what it comes down to is actually what we refer to as OTIF, on time in full.
If you deliver the right window according to the right spec and at the right place and the right time, then you've got really good opportunity to work with pricing. And that sounds really basic, but in this industry, it's actually quite unique to really tick all those boxes. But if you do, and if you do it over time, like we do with many of our entities, then you get that stickiness with the relationship with the carpenters and the resellers. And they will forever love you and your brand until you screw up because that love can be short-sighted as well. Some trends affecting the industry. I think overall, yes, it's to some extent conservative, but there's quite a lot going on in terms of new materials, PVC, of course, aluminum gaining ground.
The good news with Inwido is that we can cater for all of this through our offering. We see more automation in terms of production, but if you walk into one of our factories, maybe excluding the PVC factories, I think you'll be struck by how much labor there is still in actually producing a window. But that is also to some extent linked to the true craftsmanship and the quality of many of our brands and products. It's difficult to find decent industry data, but here's one example, and I think a sign of the fact that we do see projections already for next year that are beginning to be a little bit more positive on the curve trajectory. Visibility is super low, so of course, no one really knows.
But the projections for the time being is that it will bounce back, but it will vary quite a lot from one market to another. And the pace with this is, of course, difficult to say anything about. It's linked, of course, also to the implementation of this EPBD directive, how much impact that will have. This, I think, is quite interesting. Everyone who's been to England, and I've lived there myself for three years, but also to some other parts of Europe, know that we're literally talking much less energy efficient and to some extent, in some cases, less quality windows. But so there's a huge upside here, of course, when these countries move towards double and triple glazing. And they will most likely at some stage.
In fact, in England, as late as last year, there were quite advanced talks about them putting new building standards in place for the new build, where the U-values of the windows would be at 0.8, which is really, really advanced triple glazed windows. So there is a debate there and something will for sure happen. You may ask then, well, what does that do to the supply chain? Well, we may actually then see a shortage of glass in particular because a lot of the glass suppliers have put their glass manufacturing sites into a dormant state. And that's not something you turn on and turn off overnight. So in the near term, if something like that happens structurally, we may see a shortage of some ingoing components.
Having said that, Inwido showed during the pandemic that given the size and the importance of us to our suppliers, we typically get our fair share of the pie. I wanted to put this in here to some extent illustrate that we, Inwido, are not directly affected by the geopolitical turmoil out there, but we are indirectly impacted by it. And of course, a lot of us in this room are trying to analyze consumption in households' behavior. Sweden is one good example, of course, where a lot of people are just wondering, why is consumption not really taking off? I think this is one reason. And if you travel to Finland and if you travel to Poland, where we have sites and together with my colleagues, I've been there quite recently, they have a big neighbor in the east.
The Ukraine-Russia war is just a really, really wet blanket over everything. I really mean everything. Here in Sweden, yeah, we're part of NATO, but we tend to forget about that. In Poland, we have a factory that's 15 kilometers from the Belarusian border. It's not like people there are thinking about, when should I replace my window? They are literally thinking about, when will we be hit and how do we protect ourselves? This is a mega problem. I think it will take time before the market recovers from this. If we do get the peace deal, or rather when we get the peace deal in the Ukraine, of course, we get a lot of questions. Won't that be a huge opportunity for Inwido? Yes and no, I would say.
First of all, I think everyone and his dog will be all over that opportunity. Secondly, we're talking super simple windows. So not really the kind of windows that we would do. And let's not also forget that unfortunately, Ukraine already before the war was a really, really corrupt and bureaucratic market. So it's not easy to do business there. But of course, we'll look into opportunities as they occur. Yeah, the cynics will say when they look at this picture, "well, hang on a second, Fredrik. This is last year's picture because this is to some extent what it looked like 12 months ago." And we all thought that 2025 would be the beginning of something bigger and better. And then it wasn't really. So it's been a sideways movement, but with changes between the different markets, variations between the markets.
Yes, visibility is low, but at least the KPIs are beginning to point in the right direction. Sweden is one good example. I think overall, it feels just gut feel is that there is something there. Can't really put my finger on it, but there is something there that seems a bit promising. An important KPI for Inwido is the housing market, the number of transactions and the price level of those transactions. So Stockholm is a good indicator in the inner city of Stockholm. When that gets going in terms of more transactions, more houses, more condos, more apartments being sold and at a decent or even increasing price level, that's good news for us because that puts the owners in an immediate position to think about at least, should we replace the windows, should we replace the doors of this house or this apartment?
That's an even more important KPI for us. The ROT deduction, the government incentive here in Sweden, the ROT deduction, which will for some really, really strange reason now be lowered again to the previous level. If you ask me, I think it's just very strange because it has had a positive impact. It gets the wheels spinning a little bit faster in Sweden. It's been good news for us and Mats's entities here in Sweden. Let's not also forget that here we're competing against bathroom, kitchen suppliers, roofing works, paint jobs, whatever. Even the more labor-intensive pieces are, of course, getting their fair share of the ROT deduction as well. Yeah, we tried to update this chart from the Q3 report. Of course, to some extent, it's not that long ago. To some extent, it's the same picture.
But if we just go through them one by one, Scandinavia talked about the ROT incentive, lower interest rates. A lot of the macro KPIs for Sweden are looking quite optimistic. Of course, we're coming from a super low level, both in terms of renovation and particularly new build. Sweden looks quite promising. Denmark is solid. Strangely enough, of course, we have one company in Denmark, Novo Nordisk, that has a huge impact on the overall sentiment of the market. Strangely enough, although the overall intrinsics for Denmark are quite positive, household sentiment is a bit weak, actually. In fact, it's even come down. Denmark is in a good place. We think overall, it was probably the first country to come out of the doldrums. Norway has bottomed out, but at a low level. It's not really taking off.
They still have somewhat higher interest rates and inflation, although they have, energy is almost for free. We heard that the other day when we were up in Norway. Everyone is heating their car parks in the wintertime now in Norway. Energy is more or less for free. So no snow anywhere. And they're all driving Teslas. E-commerce, yeah, gradually improving. And of course, this could theoretically be a little bit of an early litmus test for what to come. But again, it varies a lot from one market to another. Sweden online spending in general in Sweden is actually, I don't know if you follow this, but it's actually at an all-time high since August this year. So every month has been super positive. It doesn't mean that everyone is using their money to buy windows online. It's so far more clothes and shoes and stuff.
But also the construction industry has increased when it comes to online spending over the last few months. Germany remains soft. And of course, everyone is waiting for Germany to pick up pace because that will be, I think, a big accelerator for all of Europe. Price pressure here is definitely prevalent. And that means that we always have to have a lean and mean setup. And that's exactly what Bo has been working on, yeah, before as well, but particularly this year, which is important. Three nice factories in the eastern part of Europe. Eastern Europe, again, we talked about the Russia-Ukraine war being a wet blanket over the sentiment. Finland, of course, has some demographic challenges as well. The population is not really growing.
Too few babies being born and very low immigration rates means that the population is not really growing, meaning theoretically that the need for houses is a bit lower. At the same time, again, we're really at an all-time low. One year ago, we talked about you had to go back to the 1940s. Now we're sort of beyond that. It's literally an all-time low and the summer was extra painful, but there are some lights in all of this in the doom and gloom and that's housing starts for the time being. Poland, again, we have presence in Poland, in the Polish market, which is a big one and we have a premium business there that's doing better and better, so the outlook for Poland as an economy is actually improving, I would say. Western Europe, we talked about, we start with the positives, is Ireland, really solid economy.
Together with Sweden, the sort of the highlight at the moment. We talked about that already in the Q3 report. For the U.K., I mean, you may have seen the latest budget that came out. I guess the positive takeaway was that there was really no news in it. I think everyone was expecting either really bad news or really strange news. It was more according to expectations. So there was a little bit of a sigh of relief. Of course, England needs a lot of structural measures to get back on its feet. High unemployment, high inflation. Minimum wages have been raised with a good intent. It means that production in England is a little bit more expensive these days.
And then, of course, tax rates for corporates and in particular, the wealthy people have meant that some of those wealthy people are just leaving the country. So England is finding itself in a tricky position. And it's a little bit of a hangover from Brexit as well. But again, there are companies there and businesses there that are performing really, really well. And we see a continued flow of M&A cases emerging from the U.K. A lot of them still are financial turnaround cases, i.e., they're on the verge of going into Chapter 11. That's not something we are interested in. It's more a sign of the times. And as we said many times before, some of these peers have just disappeared. No one else has picked them up. So it's capacity that's disappeared from the market. Still a big and very fragmented market.
EPBD, lovely acronym that they have down in Brussels. But this is quite important and something that we are eagerly anticipating. Still a little bit unclear as to how it will be implemented in each of the EU countries. But it's definitely happening, and we, I mean, the cynics will say, oh, you know, this is not going to take off because the EU is at the moment all about military spending and all that. We don't think that's the case. This is going to be legislation from already early next year, and as you all know, windows and doors are really, really well positioned to help any house or apartment built in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to quickly improve their energy efficiency, so you probably see a combination of carrot and stick here going forward. But overall, for us, it should provide some tailwind.
M&A, again, strong track record. I won't steal Björn's thunder, but we're doing really well here. We've got a structured approach. We've got our own in-house resources, but we're also working with external advisors, and that's paying off, and I'm quite optimistic when I look into the pipeline, the funnel that we have of live and up-and-coming cases, and over the last few weeks, more cases have emerged, and I take that as a sign of the whole industry getting a little bit more back on its feet, which is important, of course, and it's great, of course, to note that our hard efforts are bearing fruit. We were a bit unlucky early this year. Again, we're never going to be stressed up about this, but it's been great, of course, to announce not one, not two, not three, but four acquisitions over the last three months.
The two upper ones, one in Sweden, one in the U.K., already delivering very nicely and being well integrated into the group. And then we announced Victorian Sliders in Wales and AJM in Slovenia early this week. And apologies if the communication was a little bit vague when it comes to multiples and profitability of these entities, which is good. And in the case of Victorian Sliders, really good. So, I mean, first of all, really nice businesses, strong brands and well positioned in their own segments and markets. Victorian Sliders, PVC, sliding sash windows, lots of recycling of the PVC. But they are gaining market share compared to at the cost of wooden sliding sash windows.
They have a really interesting and very nice small factory in China making hardware, meaning that we see, of course, here a synergy opportunity for the rest of the Inwido group where we buy hardware typically today from European suppliers, but where the price difference is rather substantial when you compare to China. So that's something that we have started to look into already during due diligence, of course. They have a growth opportunity sales-wise in Ireland where we are present already. So a really, really nice business, well-invested factory, meaning that when they continue to grow and when the market picks up again in demand-wise, we don't need to do any additional CapEx here. So the cash flow will be very positive, which has, of course, helped the case. EBIT margin-wise, they were last year at 11%.
I think that was the number that some of you guys picked up when you did your own research. And then, of course, theoretically, the multiples turned out to be mathematically a little bit on the high side. What we didn't say was that they are this year on a trailing 12-month basis performing even better. So they're at 16% EBIT margin at the moment, which is, of course, a very, very nice margin. And we paid GBP 60 million for this business. This was a structured auction process. So we were in competition with, of course, a couple of other bidders. And with that size and with that profitability and the fact that there is a lot of capital out there, I think explained to some extent why we ended up with that price multiple, which actually then equals some eight times EBITDA.
We often talk, Peter and I, about the range being sort of five-to-seven times EBITDA. But of course, if we see synergies and if it's a unique asset, we can go a little bit above that. But it's not like it shouldn't be interpreted that we're now just paying anything just to get deals done. This is a very, very nice asset. And we're not paying crazy money for it. On the contrary, I would say. So eight times EBITDA, 11 times EBIT is the correct multiple. When it comes to AJM, EBIT margin, roughly, yeah, 6%+ . So a multiple of eight times EBITDA on this one. Again, we weren't super clear in the communication. But it's a new country for us. It gives us access to Austria.
It gives us access to Switzerland, where they have similar window and door types as we do in the Nordic region. Very nice company and a classic Inwido acquisition where we buy a majority stake and they retain a minority share and get part of the upside, so again, we're not done yet when it comes to M&A, but we are picky, and as usual with the family-owned businesses, it gets kind of emotional, so the processes tend to be a bit more lengthy and a bit more complex. That's why I'm happy about these two because we get more bang for the buck here.
We add a lot of turnover to the existing turnover, meaning on a pro forma basis now, we're more of a 10 billion SEK company, which is good because sometimes the processes for the smaller entities are even more complex and more time and energy and resource-consuming. So very happy about these two. And of course, we're happy to take any questions that you have on those later on. Try to wrap this up. Otherwise, I'm stealing the time from everybody else. The message of today is basically that the roadmap that we are on, the target towards 2030, is something that we're sticking to. We fundamentally believe in it. We're committed to it. It is definitely achievable. The priorities remain more or less the same. M&A is up there. Technology, Green Deal is up there.
Malin will talk about the people and culture part of it, which is really, really key for us as we go from plan to action. So it's really all about execution. In all the negative news about the industry and the doom and gloom around us, I think it's important every now and then to take a moment and just celebrate things. And we have quite a few things to celebrate on a regular basis in Inwido. This is just a couple of examples. Our entity in Ireland, Carlson, is celebrating 30 years this year. I mentioned the Sparokna brand that we've entered Poland with and soon entering Czech Republic with. Malin and Ulrika have joined our group management team. Very happy about that. We launched last year a low carbon glass in Finland, which has really, really taken off. It's unique to us.
It's an exclusive collaboration with our suppliers on the aluminum and glass side, so that's working really, really well. We're trying to get it into other markets too. Great Place to Work is our employee engagement survey that we run every year since 2010. Thank you, Malin, and Malin will talk more about that, but you would have thought that those KPIs this year would be on the low side, but we've actually hit an all-time high for Inwido literally just a few weeks ago in terms of response rate and in terms of score, which I think is a fantastic sign of us working really, really closely with our coworkers in these tough times, so Malin will cover that in more detail. We have been recognized as one of the European climate leaders by the Financial Times, which is great news. We launched some new products.
Can't really see it on this picture, but this is a threshold that we've developed exclusively within Elitfönster that makes life much, much easier for the individuals that are wheelchair-bound. And we're very happy to have added two new analysts, two new banks covering our share, Berenberg and SpareBank 1 , present here today. So now we actually have six analysts covering the Inwido share, which is both important and very, very pleasing, which I think also quite unique actually for a company listed on the mid-cap list. This is not rocket science, but it's important. And at the end of the day, it's all about people, something that Malin will talk about. But we, of course, now got to make sure do we have enough resources? Do we have the right resources in the right place? Do we have the right competencies? Are people incentivized accordingly?
How do we continue to develop the governance model, etc., etc.? And at the end of the day, performance measurement, performance management is really, really key. So to wrap up, fully committed to and fully believing in the plan ahead. I think we are showing this week already that we are doing well. And we are definitely well positioned for when the market and demand picks up again, then we will be a bigger Inwido and an even more profitable Inwido. So very, very exciting journey. Thank you very much for your attention. Do we have time for one or two questions?
Yes, I think we have. So yes, I see we have a question over here. So we take two questions now and then we take the other ones at the end.
Thank you. So Albin from Kepler Cheuvreux. First one about Victoria n Sliders.
You mentioned you have the capacity to double production, meaning utilization 50%. Can we get some thought of where you estimate that the utilization will be in 2026 and 2027?
Really tricky, but because the market as such is, of course, very soft, but as I said before, they have been growing already in that tough market, and they are gaining ground. They're gaining market share, so their own financial plans that we have, of course, taken a close look at and that we think it's a credible plan is rather optimistic, not only for 2026, but also going forward, and that's even without, of course, the synergies that we expect to come now, both on the cost side, but also on the sales side with Ireland as an obvious growth opportunity for us.
I don't know, Jonna, if you want to comment on specifically on capacity utilization, but it will go up most likely. But having said that, they're doing a really good job, as you could tell by the profit number I said already.
Yeah, they're producing 1,750 frames today, and they have a capacity of producing 3,000. So it's not really doubling, but yeah. And I think what is important to know about Victorian Sliders compared to many of our other businesses is that they are at the low end of the market, which, of course, today in the market situation where we are, is a very good place to be. And that's also why they've been able to grow both sales-wise and profitability-wise during this year. And of course, if you're in that position, you also have the possibility of selling up.
And so they are working quite a lot with value engineering along with product development. And they're right now launching quite a number of new features into their product assortment.
And let's not forget that they have raised prices, and you won't believe it. They raised prices twice in 20 years. So they have some more work to do on pricing. Let's put it that way.
And the second time was in April this year.
Yeah.
Okay, so just another one then. Saying they're in the low end, then that's one of the reasons for the increase in profitability. So let's say the market rebounds. Do you expect margin pressure or?
No. Why?
60% is a sustainable margin for.
Excuse me?
I think that 60% is a sustainable margin for Victorian Sliders going forward. I would say that there's potential to increase the margin.
Okay, thanks.
Hi, Jon Myhre from SEB. Just a follow-up question on that. Besides the pricing, what happened there? Because it's quite a drastic margin improvement, you said from, I think, public records, what's just about 10% last year or 11% margin. Now you say 16% at the lower end of the, I mean, bottom of the market, sorry. So I mean, was it any timing effects affecting that margin? Was it artificially pressured last year? Or was it any timing effect this year that boosted margins or?
I mean, they have been, I don't know, Jonna, if you want to comment on it, but they have been growing. They have gotten more juice out of the well-invested factory, I would say. So they were working with operational excellence as well in an even better way. The management team in place have been there for a few years.
One of the sellers now was sort of the founder and the previous CEO. So the management team is still relatively new. And as everyone knows, it takes a while before their impact really kicks in. I think that is one part of the explanation. But they just, yeah, they launched some new products, as you said. They've been able to charge a higher price for that without losing any volume on the contrary, really. I don't know, Jonna, if you want to add.
Yeah, I'm only adding or emphasizing what you're saying. I mean, they haven't been there very long. So now they're really seeing the effects of a new strategy and a new structure. And they've also been working. I mean, they are a fully vertically integrated factory, which has a huge effect when you're working with the different parts.
So I would say that they've been able to, perfect scenario, raise prices and lower their costs.
Okay, yeah, that's clear. But there's no project timing that affected margin.
There's nothing extraordinary.
Okay, that's clear. Just one quick one on the pricing. I think you said that you aim to work with more pricing in the group in general. My interpretation before is that the window market is rather cost-plus driven in terms of price. And I think you said that you expect the market to grow 4% and you believe you can grow 5% organically. So can you maybe, and I expect you to grow volumes more than the market as well. So can you maybe elaborate what makes you confident that you have this pricing power?
First of all, we have some entities today that are really, really good at this. And that's even in a tough market.
Of course, if we continue to also deliver some new products to the market, if you take Elitfönster this year, they have launched a completely new range. They have launched some other new features. That to me is even more important that we bring something new to the table the whole time. That is not only important for the pricing negotiations, for the salespeople to have something to talk about out there, but it also gives a pride to the rest of the organization that we come up with something new and we can defend and even gain market share on top of all the other positive features that we bring to the table. But this is an area that we work quite a lot with now and we really urge people to try it out if they haven't before.
A lot of companies have of course tested this during the pandemic when everyone more or less expected you to raise prices and where price increases could be passed on to the end users. In our case, it's really about, it really starts with OTIF, on time in full, and I know that sounds like a really boring answer, but if you do tick that box, and that's why we have that as sort of the number one to number ten internal KPI target to have a 98% OTIF for all of our entities. Some are at 100%, some are at 90%, but 98% is sort of the sweet spot, and if you succeed with that, then you can charge a higher price. It's as simple as that.
So we talk a lot about this in conferences, in webinars, and we point our business units toward the high performance within the group, and we urge them to try it out if they haven't. And surprisingly, they come back and say, yeah, we raised prices and they didn't cry. They didn't even comment on it. They just sort of swallowed the price increase, which is quite a normal reaction when you work with pricing. So I'm quite confident about that. And we, of course, we have our BA heads are very close to each of the business units, and then we have these formal boards that meet with them on a quarterly basis. We have regularly an opportunity to measure and monitor this.
I would say if I, at one stage, need to go out and tell everyone that now you need to raise prices by 5%, then we have the wrong managers in those positions. It's as simple as that.
Good that we have a lot of questions already. Now we will hand over to Björn Mjellberg and Kurt Greatrex.
Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me?
Yes, you can.
Good to see you. My name is Björn Möllberg. I'm head of M&A at Inwido. I've been with the company. You might think I'm new to the block since this is my first CMD, but I've been with the company for 19 years. And this is what you get when you have been with the company for so long time instead of a gold watch. Before that, I spent 10 years in investment banking in London and up here in Stockholm.
With me, I'm lucky today. I have Kurt flying in from Manchester. Thank you. Do you want to just say a few words about yourself?
Yeah, sure.
Who you are?
So I am Kurt Greatrex, Managing Director of Dekko Window Systems, based just outside Manchester in North England. Happy to be here. Pleased to see so many people. So hopefully we can give you some good confidence.
V ery good. Excellent.
Right. So I'll talk about a little bit how we work with M&A at Inwido and the way forward. I'm looping back to this graph, which Fredrik showed you just a few minutes ago. I've highlighted the M&A bar, as you can see. That will sort of be the launch pad for the rest of my presentation today.
If you convert that size or the height of the bar, you end up with some SEK 7-7.5 billion of turnover that we need to acquire up to 2030. Some of you and some of the market might think that this is a bit optimistic, overly optimistic perhaps even. I will go through this presentation and show you why we are convinced that it's absolutely possible to do that. Again, you've seen this earlier today, this morning. Since the IPO in 2014, we have made more than 20 acquisitions. It's been a quite fast pace. The thing about these acquisitions, they have added some SEK 4.2-4.5 billion of turnover to the group. If you do the simple math by dividing that by 20, you can arrive at an average size of some SEK 200-250 million of turnover of these companies.
It's been a sweet spot for us for a long time, but in order for us to reach the target in 2030, we aim to increase the number of companies higher up in the range, in the size range, so how do we intend to do that? First, look at the industry landscape. As Fredrik mentioned, we have a market which has a value of EUR 60 billion. And this is not including the solar shading industry. This is just the windows and doors in Europe. And more than 10,000 companies are represented in this industry. Most of them are in this bracket here, below EUR 15 million of turnover. And those are of less interest to Inwido unless it's a bolt-on acquisition for us. So moving forward, we intend to focus more on these brackets here.
And the good news is that if we look at the shortlist today, we have many more potential targets in these sizes, size categories than we have had in the past. So we are optimistic going forward. Right, so we are seeking targets in both existing markets and also in new markets. And as you can see, the existing markets are marked in blue, dark blue. And, sorry, Boo, Jabs, there you are. Jabs is not included. We are referring to countries where we have a manufacturing facility. And Slovenia will be marked as soon as we close that in early next year as well. But the good news is, as you can see, we have plenty of ground to cover going forward. In terms of the Nordics, the home market of Inwido, we can do more acquisitions.
I mean, we did RM Snickerier just a few months ago, but we can't do any large acquisitions due to competition issues, so if we find good bolt-on acquisitions in the Nordic, we can do that as well, but we spend more and more time to cover the orange-ish, yellow-ish market, and when we look at potential entries into new countries, AJM is a very good example of that. We identified AJM as the leading company in Slovenia. Slovenia is a growing economy. They have above EU average GDP growth rate, and we see very positively on that market, and they also, as Fredrik mentioned, very close to the Austrian border, and that's a very good example of buying a market leader and from that market leader expand in that country and thereby create further synergies between those add-on or bolt-on or standalone acquisitions in that particular market.
Slovenia is a small country, as you know. They have EUR 60 billion, actually representing the window market in Europe, EUR 60 billion of GDP. So 30 million turnover for a company in that country is a very large company. If we look at Germany, France, etc., you will find obviously much larger companies than that. Another type of acquisition we do is standalone acquisitions. So in countries where we have a presence already today, we identify attractive companies. A recent example two days ago is Victorian Sliders. That company is adding a product that we don't have in the portfolio today. They will continue as a standalone company, but obviously we will try to extract synergies with other U.K. entities and also outside the UK. Then lastly, we have the bolt-on acquisitions.
Kurt will tell you more about a recent example in terms of Fast Frame in the U.K. Those are typically smaller companies, which is adding something to an existing Inwido company in a market. I won't go mor
e into that. That's for you to talk about then, Kurt. Right, M&A wheel. It's a very simple one-dimensional analog tool that I use daily in my work. We get a lot of proposals. We are very transparent in terms of what we want to do, of course, as a listed company. We talk a lot with M&A advisors in Europe. When we get proposals inbound, this is a very useful tool so that we make sure that we spend the time and money and efforts on the right targets. I would say on average we receive one or maybe even two every week.
Most of those are not for us, but occasionally we find a target that way as well. More importantly, obviously we just don't sit around and wait for the targets to come to us because then we probably miss the good ones in the markets. So we proactively seek also targets through our own networks, through our colleagues in the different countries, and also through M&A advisors in both Eastern and Western Europe. So if we look at the map we had before, we probably cover most, well, 80%-90% of those countries today with people on the ground, feet on the ground. And that's a very good source of finding the best acquisitions. So with the risk of sounding a bit complacent, we often hear that Inwido is viewed as an attractive buyer for a number of reasons.
I mean, sometimes we compete with private equity firms and they have their pros and cons. But in the window industry, most companies are owned by families and it could be the first, it could be the second, it could be the third, even the fourth generation. So it's a lot of sentimental feelings when they argue to part with our baby. So one of the reasons is that Inwido is one of the leaders in Europe. We have a strong, solid financial profile and we are in it for the long run. We don't buy and sell. We keep the companies. This is a very good example, RM Snickerier. He was approached, well, actually it was an auction process, so they approached us. But we know that other window companies were involved in the process and also one or two family offices or financial investors.
But this man, Mikael, to the right, Mikael, he founded the company when he was 21 or 22. And he has been living and breathing this company now for 40 years. And it's a bit difficult maybe for us corporate guys to actually realize what that means. So you really, in terms of building trust and having the continuity with a person like that, it's absolutely key. And there I think we have an advantage towards particularly financial buyers. I'm pretty certain of that. And he was, I think when he entered the process, he wanted to sell 100% of the company. But then when it actually became a reality that he was parting with his baby, he sort of changed his mind and went, "Okay, can I sell 85% instead so I can hang on for a number of years?" And we said, "Yeah, perfect.
We like that model, that we buy a majority first and then work. Now we get to keep Mikael in the business. And we together can create some extra value for him when he sells his remaining 15%. So it's a win-win situation, which you can see from the smiles there, I think from Fredrik and Mikael.
Good.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So I was one of those babies that Björn's just talked about with Dekko. So 18 years ago we started the business. Not a family business. We worked together at a previous business and left there to set Dekko up and grew the business over 18 years. And we weren't looking to, we weren't actually looking to sell at the time. We were approached by one of the consultants and it was like, "Oh, this is a big decision.
“What do we do?” Various questions and talking about it, and just by talking to and having a look into Inwido, it was obviously apparent that we would be joining a fantastic group with fantastic people, and that has been the emphasis over the last two, three years. Now we're well and truly entrenched in the group, how nice and how good the people are, supportive, allows us to continue to do what we've done, growing the business from 18 years ago from nothing up to currently a SEK 22 million business with good profit margins, so that's what we're allowed to continue to do, bringing into the market new products, new USPs for customers to help us to continue to grow, so the work that Björn and the team do comes to fruition.
I can tell you that it's good to be part of Inwido and to have that backing behind us, not just for us, but also for our customers. Our customers know that we can continue to invest in the business and bring in new products, new USPs to continue to help them grow in the market as well. A little bit Western Europe, you've seen this before. Seven business units, soon to become eight, and with Walker Profiles and Sidey up in Scotland. Sidey is the largest manufacturer and installer in Scotland into the retail, consumer, and commercial market. Carlson's over in Dublin, covering Ireland with high-performance products sourced from within the group. We've got Allan Brothers up in Berwick-upon-Tweed, timber joinery manufacturers supplying to the trade.
And then my own business unit, Dekko and CWG down in the center of England, both multiple products, aluminum and PVC, and supplying to the consumer trade market. And then the recent addition of Fast Frame, again in the Midlands in Nottingham. Obviously, unfortunately, the Malmö did lose to Nottingham Forest the day after. But yeah, Fast Frame is a. You might think it's a small business, but profit-wise, very, very good, a lot higher than the average Inwido. So it's a small business, but in a niche market for them. And they've got a major USP, which allows them to retain that profit margin. So I'd say seven business units, soon to become eight with Victorian Sliders down in South Wales. So again, a lot more opportunity within the market to come. So Dekko, as I said, I was a founder of Dekko 18 years ago.
got two years ago, three years ago when Inwido approached and bought our 70%. And then what do we do when we do the full sale? Well, I've actually moved into being managing director from being sales director for 17 years. At the turn of this year, I became managing director, took over. So I've well entrenched into it as well, just having the support, particularly from Jonna as our leader. The support is there for us to continue to what we do. Dekko is one of the U.K.'s leading suppliers and manufacturers of PVC and aluminum products within the consumer trade market. We deal with regionalized local installers. We actually also have, as one of our largest customers, Anglian, who we saw on the slide of being the U.K.'s largest window group. They are one of our major customers. We deal with small to medium house builders as well.
We're reliant on the new build market to bring work in as well. Main product ranges are UPVC windows and doors. In the last few years, we've introduced aluminum. I'll touch on that why in a couple of slides on. Coverage-wise, nationwide, we go as far as the Lake District in the north, down to Land's End in the south, from East Anglia in the east and right over to the west coast of Wales. We cover the whole country, looking and finding trade suppliers, installers to offer our market-leading products. We have a factory in Ashton-under-Lyne, 55,000 sq ft factory, kitted out. That's where Victorian Sliders make one product. They make a PVC sliding sash window. We do multiple products. We do multiple PVC products. We manufacture aluminum.
So when Fredrik talks about why don't we have one central factory in Europe, then we as a business manufacture three or four completely different products. CWG also manufactures different types of products. So very, very difficult to have one centralized factory. The local factories work. We know that a lot of our customers we've known for a number of years. So we've got relationships with them. And it just works like that in the U.K. Almost 20 years in business as Dekko. I've actually been in the industry for 39 years in three different positions. So each one is at least 10 years. And so Dekko was incorporated in 2008. Actually, it was November 2007, but we started business in January 2008. Four months later, the major bank crash happened April, May time 2008. And it was like a little bit squeaky bum time, what's happening.
But I think those days just made us a far, far better leaner business. And we reaped the benefits over the following few years for that. We started life as a PVC window manufacturer. As I said earlier, we expanded into aluminum back in 2017. 2013 saw us move into the 55,000 sq ft factory that we're in currently, where we've got a bolt-on factory with aluminum and then the PVC main factory. What we did set out to do was to be a little bit different and to give our customers USPs and reasons to buy from us and reasons for them to continue to grow their business. If they grow their business, then obviously we grow as well.
Having USPs also allows us to raise price, which isn't easy in a cut-throat market like the U.K., which is always seen to be a race to the bottom with a lot of window companies, but the innovations that we've had, we've actually got a jump on a little bit, but in 2023, we launched the world's first seamless welded window. So we're not corner cleaning. We're not painting in any of the colored welds, which is a major, major step in the U.K. In the U.K., we have this thing about internally glazed windows with reverse-butt welds, etc., and that's what the seamless welding does for us. It gives our customers a fantastic USP to use because people these days in the U.K. aren't buying windows out of necessity. It's becoming more of a lifestyle product to buy.
So now we're going on to the aesthetics of the window, the welds, the seamless finish, colors. Color is a massive part of our business. Our color percentage is up to 55% of products that we manufacture are color, which is great because when somebody moves into that house or when somebody has the windows done and they have green windows, then two years' time when they move out and the new people don't like these windows, we're changing them back to white. We've got an emphasis on flush windows at the moment. That will change again probably in a few years' time back to storm casement windows. So it's just regenerating the market for fabricators and for installers over the lifecycle over a few years.
As I said, in 2022, we had this big organization pop up and say, "we want to buy, we would be interested in buying Dekko," and talking. It was a great step for us to move on. Our philosophy is aligned with price, USPs, etc. to continue to grow. That is continuing. In Q1 of next year, we take delivery of another three-headed welder, seamless welder, which gives us increased capacity, which will allow us to attack the market for that particular product even further. In 2025, at the turn of the year, Inwido took the rest of the business, took all 100%. I morphed into managing director, which is a little bit different to being sales director.
With a sales team of four or five to having 205, it's a little bit different, but a learning curve, but exciting learning curve because I think the future, even though it's tough in the U.K.., the future is there's opportunities with downturns, with tough times. There always becomes opportunities as well, and I think we're well set, not just Dekko, but CWG, Sidey and everybody are well set to attack that opportunity as and when it comes. The U.K window and door market, it's a tough market. It is a tough market. We constantly hear the phrase race to the bottom. There are those people out there that just talk price down, talk price giving it away basically. Obviously, over the pandemic years, price went up because it was easy to add price when everybody's busy and everybody's on lead times.
Our normal lead times, by the way, our normal lead time is seven to 10 days. So if Peter asks me what's coming in in January at this moment in time stood here, I don't know until the next few days and over the next week or two. So our market is tough for planning and forecasting. I think we do get our forecasting fairly good as well. So that is one thing that we've learned. But yeah, the pandemic years were good. Obviously, over the last few years, volumes have decreased. There have been some major casualties within the U.K. market as well. Well-established businesses that have gone out of business. One particular one was 40 years, just over 12 months ago, 40 years within the industry. And that was a major shock. They were a timber and PVC manufacturer.
It can happen to the best if you're not sure of what's happening. They went into the commercial market and basically bought work just to keep the factory running. And over a period of time, it caught up with them. That will happen and that will continue to happen. But obviously, when that happens, that gives us an opportunity. All the well-respected, well-run businesses have the opportunity then to pick up market share. Competitive landscape, consolidation, that's going on. As I said, there's businesses going under, businesses being bought for turnaround. Like Fredrik said, are we interested in those? Not really, unless there's a major, major case for it. In the aluminum market this year, there's been major consolidation with systems houses merging and buying each other.
Not much has happened in the PVC side, but certainly this year on aluminum, that has been quite a major thing happening. The U.K. government, the current U.K. government, put the manifesto down about new build houses. That hasn't happened yet. Unfortunately, I just said last night to opposite me where I live, planning applications got in for 450 brand new houses on what was Green Belt land. That is starting to happen now where we need new build houses happening. When that market is busy, then our Dekko's market, the replacement retail consumer market is busy as well. It pulls all the way through because people moving into new houses, then moving on. Yeah, the government, something needs to happen fairly soon. Obviously, our current government will want a second term in office.
I think the purse strings need to, and legislation need to loosen up a little bit and allow the market to grow. When it does, we'll be there to seek that opportunity. The consolidation one. There's a point. Just in this slide here, you can see the number of fabricator installers is drastically reducing year on year. The actual number of PVC fabricators alone is going down, and that will continue. By volume, 1,000 frames a week, sorry, 1 to 100 frames a week. The larger ones, which is the market that we're in, 500+ frames a week. Again, you can see that graph or that number is continually going down, which then gives people an opportunity on the right-hand side. You can see aluminum is actually going up. We've got competitors and also what Dekko did back in 2017.
We took aluminum on. On average, we've got 1,000 customers a year. Those 1,000 customers will be buying aluminum, so why not buy it from Dekko? Why not buy it from us, so that's what we did, and that's why we entered the aluminum market. Obviously, when that's happening, others can see that they're doing that, that we're doing that, sorry, so the PVC fabricators now also manufacture aluminum. That's why one's going down, but the opportunity for people is then to go into aluminum, and that's why aluminum is going up, so yeah, it's an opportunity to grab because you've already got your bank of customers. Why Fast Frame? I've known and dealt with the guys at Fast Frame or the team at Fast Frame for a number of years. They actually manufacture exactly the same type of window as we do, just in a completely different market.
We did a contract for Fast Frame back in 2022, an aluminum contract for one of their sites that they were working on. The client insisted on aluminum patio doors, so they sourced those from us over a 12-month period, GBP 600,000 worth. They saw the benefits of that, and when during talks and just chatting to them, it became apparent that they wanted an exit route, so put them in touch with Björn and the team. The rest is history, and they're within the Inwido fold now. A couple of months ago, they're highly strong in the commercial sector, so mainly down London in medium-to-medium-rise buildings, and their major USP, it's a paint process that is under license with Deceuninck, our main supplier, so they coat a window, and it looks like an aluminum window, but at lower cost, but higher thermal properties.
So, they're getting more for the book, basically. The client is. They don't manufacture aluminum, but again, during their negotiations with architects and clients, etc., then they're being asked for aluminum. They don't do it. So, the attraction to Dekko and Inwido is that they can add aluminum to their portfolio, and then that will be manufactured in Ashton-under-Lyne at Dekko. So, that will give us, Dekko, the chance to grow the aluminum side as well. As I said, I've known the guys there for a number of years. They're more than happy to continue working. And then even they've already said when their earn-out is complete, they want to carry on working as well because they're interested and excited to see where we can take it with Fast Frame as well.
As I said, the number one thing is the higher profitability than the quite a higher number, higher than the Inwido average, obviously on smaller sales. My job is to increase that sales number and maintain or increase that profitability. It is a really good bolt-on acquisition to Dekko and Inwido. I've touched on that. The potential for market expansion, it is actually not just for Dekko. It is within the wider group Outline and Allan Brothers as well. We've got huge synergies and economies of scale with raw materials because we're both using exactly the same supplier. Those conversations have already started. It is a real good opportunity to move the business on and enhance everything with it. Back to Björn.
Yeah, let's skip this one. You described it very well, Kurt.
Just to summarize what we have been talking about, I mean, we are confident as to our ability to deliver on the M&A strategy that we have talked about today. We have the financial profile to do it. We have the people. We have the experience. We have foremost the market landscape to do that. And also the good news is that our current shortlist is, I would say, the best ever in terms of quality. You never know about M&A, but it feels like a very firm shortlist of good opportunities, also with a higher volume. Yes, that's it for us. Thank you for listening.
Thank you, guys. Do we have one question before we go for Björn or Kurt or yeah?
I have a quick one. Sorry, Filip from DNB.
Now that you are targeting slightly bigger acquisitions, would it be reasonable to assume that your average acquisition multiple would increase a bit then?
I don't think so, to be honest.
You need the microphone.
Do I? Yeah. Okay. Hi, Filip. No, I don't think so. Maybe. I mean, if it's a market-leading player in one of the countries, a champion in France or Germany, it might be they normally go out in an auction process, and then the multiple could tick up a little bit. But we are never seeing double-digit multiples in the window industry. It's not that type of industry. But as we have been talking about before, five to seven, and sometimes we climb up to eight, depending on the actual target.
Thanks. Thanks.
Thank you, and welcome back to the break.
I do hope that you got some coffee and maybe also a little bit of sugar in order to feel energized. I'm Mats Stockholm Nilsson. I've been with Inwido since 2007, so 18 years within the window and doors industry. I had three years away from Inwido at Jeld-Wen Sweden, but still in the same business climate. My background is financial auditor from KPMG. So what should I know about operational excellence? I'm still training, actually. No, I do think that I know a lot being part of this business for many, many years because operational excellence is a really big part of our DNA because it's for sure needed in order to stay competitive within the market. It's needed because we see extremely seasonality impact of our business, especially in the Nordics, which I will come back to.
You have seen this before, and I won't go into the details, but I do have 16 individual entities. I do have 17 individual brands within the Nordics. We are addressing the market through these brands. Each of the units, they have their own MD, which who run the company totally independent from the other, but also with a lot of dependency and accountability. Looking into the different areas, we do have a leading position in Denmark and in Sweden, and we are a clear number two in Norway. Even if we look into the individual brands within Sweden and Norway, we have number one positions. Elitfönster is for sure the biggest in Sweden. We have a number of companies that are among the biggest producers in Denmark.
And what goes for us in Inwido, as also as Fredrik addressed, we are producing locally. We are producing close to the market, so we are agile, and that's extremely important. Throughout the past years, we have actually been growing our market shares. So we have taken market shares in a downturn, and at the same time, we have defended our margin. And that's quite exceptional that we have been able to do that. So we have not lowering prices in average, but of course, where we see big competition, we are, to some extent, following the market down, but we have been able to keep our margins. Scandinavia is for sure the biggest part of Inwido, measured in sales, but also in margin. So we have to defend that in Scandinavia. We are well positioned when the market turns. We do have the capacity.
Yes, we have more capacity today than we need in the current market positions. But we are also extremely flexible in the way we use the capacity. So we can swing from 65% of our capacity to 140% of our capacity in seasons. We do have a unique position in Scandinavia. Denmark has bottomed out, yes, bottomed out fast, actually. But I would also say that Denmark has stayed at that bottom for quite some long time now. We haven't really seen the uptrend in the market because the consumer confidence in Denmark is extremely low. The inflation is low, the interest is low. The house building is actually starting. There's a lot of houses sold, apartments sold, especially in Copenhagen, and the prices are going up. But the consumer confidence is still low. And that all goes back to macroeconomics, what happens in the world around us.
When that starts to improve, we will see the market booming. Sweden, we have seen market recovering through 2025, and especially in the autumn, where we have seen the impact of the ROT exemption being lowered from January 2026. We have seen a little bit of a boom in consumer demand. Norway is still challenging and really in a bad position. But looking into our presence in Norway, we are actually doing really good. We have been staying profitable throughout the crisis, and we expect to continue that. If we look a little bit deeper into our model, we are decentralized. We are heavily depending on our local MDs. They have a full responsibility of their company, not only the finance, but also how they address the market, of course, guided by what we call the business unit board.
So, my job as an EVP of Scandinavia is actually taking the chair of the board in each of the business units, and I'm running that dialogue daily business very closely together with the local MD. We like when we have MDs with this entrepreneurial mindset. They have to believe and think like it's their own business, so they don't overspend. They go to the market where they believe that they can have profit, and they simply address the whole organization as it was their own. We have that in place in most of our business units, so 16 business units, is that total chaos? No, it isn't, because we are cooperating among the business units. We are talking, we are meeting, we are trying to have the best practice sharing across countries, also within the countries, and within Sweden, we have an MD forum.
Within Denmark, we have the same. In Norway, the MD forum is pretty easy because we only have one unit, so that's Henry and me, but we are trying to get the synergies, best practice, learning from each other, and of course, we are also coordinating when we go to the market with price increases so we don't stick out with 5% increase in one market, in one brand, and only 1% in another. We are coordinating these areas, and then in some areas, with Denmark as an example, we do have a shared service setup because the Danish entities have been used to work more close together than we have seen in Sweden, so in Denmark, we have a shared service center placed in Aalborg and Jutland, and they are taking care of marketing, finance, digital assistance, purchase, R&D, IT for the Danish units.
They are selling their services. And when I'm saying selling, I mean selling because they have to address the necessity of the business units actually taking part of that service. It's not an instruction. They should see it as a benefit. Otherwise, it won't function. And the shared service center in Denmark, it's 35-38 people, depending on our focus. We have recently been doing a pretty big IT migration for one of the units, and then we man up. But we are taking care of all these central functions for the local entities. And the local entities are, to some extent, working together, but addressing their own part of the market. These five business units outlined: KPK, Frovin, Outrup, and Bøjsø. They have their own production. They have their own part of the market. They have their own product. They have their own value proposition.
And then we're trying to coordinate. And to a very low extent, we are selling each other's products. We do have some unique niche products, the sliding doors, which are only produced in Outline, sold to KPK, and they are selling it in the market. But that's the way we do in Denmark and Outline. They are supporting Carlson, as Kurt was mentioning. And we are also supporting Allan Brothers in England with export of our products. And I would say that 80%, at least 80%, maybe even more, is from Carlson, is coming from Outline. And 95% has been that for many, many, many years. And I'll come back to the Carlson and Outline cooperation because that's extremely important, not only for Carlson, but actually extremely important for Outline. Then we have a Lithuanian presence.
We don't produce in Lithuania, and actually, to a very low extent, we are selling products in Lithuania, but we do have a shared office in Lithuania. Right now, we have 55 persons sitting in Lithuania and supporting our business with quotes, orders, 3D, 2D drawings, planning of production, R&D work, IT services, and they are supporting the Danish facilities, but they are also supporting the Swedish, Finnish, to some extent also e-commerce, Allan Brothers, Carlson, really supporting our businesses because we need that service setup. We need to be fast and reliable towards the customer. That's a key takeaway: reliability and speed to customer. If we look into the different markets, we like to say that we are present in the segments in the market where we find profit. Right, Peter? Yes.
Where we find profit in the market can be different in Sweden compared to Denmark, compared to Norway. Where we find the profit, that's where we focus. This illustrates the different parts of the markets. The business units, a major part of our business, we are selling to retailers, DIYs. It's Beijer, Neumann, Stark, XL, Optimera, Bauhaus, this part of the market. And they are selling to the carpenters, but to some extent, they are also selling to the end consumer. We are also addressing the house manufacturers, especially in Sweden, where we have a pretty high market share. And we are also addressing direct construction projects, Peab, Skanska, NCC, and this part of the market. And to some extent, Sabo, but we are also doing direct sales.
And this is where we have Elitfönster På Plats, Era Fönster, where we have the direct contact through the consumer via our installers. And EPP, Elitfönster På Plats is a pretty fixed, tight setup where we have franchisees, and they are loyal to us. Era Fönster is a little bit more flexible. They should concentrate on selling Era windows, but they can also do roofing, kitchens, and these kinds of things. But we are trying to approach the customer or the consumer where we find it profitable. And you won't find, if we take Outline in Denmark, then they are 100% loyal to the retail business. And they will never, ever sell direct to a carpenter because then they have the market conflict. But in Denmark, we want to sell to the carpenters because that's a big part of the market.
So at that market segment, we are using KPK or Outrup to approach that market with their product, with their value proposition. And by doing this, we are taking care of the whole market, but we are also competing internally. But I would rather compete internally than compete towards one of our biggest competitors. So yes, we do have internal competition, and that's fine. And to some extent, it's also a little bit disturbing. But by doing that, we are taking a bigger part of the market. And then I stated that we have window and door offerings, which should be pretty obvious. But it isn't because in Denmark and to some extent Norway, the window and door market is pretty much aligned. You're buying the doors and the window from the same brand. In Sweden, it's completely opposite. You're buying windows, and then you're buying doors.
And the brands can differ. But we have both. And we do have agreements, as stated here, with all the major retailers and DIYs, and we're doing business with all the big contractors, Peab, Skanska, whatsoever. We do see that a bigger part of the market is swinging towards showroom presence. So even when we have retailers as a customer, we need to set up showrooms because consumers, they want to see the products, and they want to see our offering to a higher extent than five years ago. It's a big investment when you are buying windows. And of course, it takes some attention. So we are setting up showrooms through the retailers or in cities where we can present our assortment in a better way. The products that we are selling, yeah, double and triple glazing.
We do still have double glazing, and we can do a pretty efficient window with double glazing. We just need to do some magic, not only with the glass, but also with the frame and sash and so on. And of course, we are meeting energy performance, security, and noise reduction, the demands from the market. Otherwise, we would be out of business. So looking into Scandinavia and looking into the products, the products look alike, but they are completely different. And that goes because we have different building traditions. We have different window and door culture in the Scandinavian countries. A small thing, but actually quite important. Swedish entrance door is opening outward because you see it as a security, safety issue that you need to get out of the house quick. In Denmark, the door is opening inward. We are welcoming our guests.
At least that's what we believe, and it's not a simple issue just to take the same door and just turn it around. It's a completely different structure, and so you can't just sell a Swedish product in Denmark, and you actually can't just sell a Danish product in Sweden because the Danish product in Sweden will be way too expensive. And the Swedish product in Denmark would be seen as not that high of design. A window in Denmark is seen as a furniture quality, and we expect that in our products. All we do, 99% all we do is made to measure, and it's not only by centimeters, it's by millimeters. And we have even tried to narrow that down a little bit so you can order a window at 0.3, 6, and 9 millimeters. That wasn't good enough. Our customers, carpenters, they want accuracy within their product.
It's actually a lot of variants. It's stated here that we have more than 1,000 different models. We have thousands of different models in our portfolio. That makes it complex. When I started in the window industry, I came with a financial background, and I learned that 20% of our products would most likely represent 80% of the sales. I guess you have all heard that phrase. I asked, let me see in print the 20% sales, 80% sales, which should equal the 20% of the models. They gave me a list like this. This industry is completely different. We are doing a lot of different models. A window is not only four pieces of wood and a piece of glass. It's combined by more than 50 individual parts within the window, and it's all tested. It's all measured, executed.
Adding to that complexity, we have big swings in market seasonality. We swing between 65% utilization of our production to 140%. That really set up high demands for flexibility within our workforce and also our machinery. Today, our workforce is extremely flexible. I'll come back to that in a couple of minutes. Then on time in full, Fredrik, you mentioned it. It's the most important KPI we have. It's not only on time in full delivering the product. It's also on time in full when you promise to deliver the quote or to deliver the order confirmation or to receive your claim, take care of the claim. That's also part of the service concept, on time in full. We need to be on time in full even when we are in high season and when we do 140% capacity utilization.
And we need to, to a very high extent, maintain our speed to the market. So when we promise to be there within normal four to six weeks, we have to keep that lead time also when we are running high utilization. And then, of course, we are adding the synergies that we know that exist within our group when we talk about sourcing, when we talk about operational excellence, lean assessments, learning from each other, machine investments, how we run the machines, and so on. So if we try to look into window production, and this is extremely, this is on a high level because it's way more complex. But this should illustrate the flow. And each of these actions can be automated. They can be semi-automated, or it could be manual processes that are needed within the flow through the factory.
What's extremely important is that we have the right people. And many of our employees, they are coming with no background within the industry, and we are actually training, educating them for the job. So we need them to stick with us. We don't want to get rid of the people when we go low, and we should try to hire them when we go into high season. We have extremely focused on flow and what I call takt time because when each of the individual products are processing through the production and at the end coming to the assembly line, we need to ensure that the wooden parts for that exact window measured in millimeters are at the spot at the same time as the aluminum parts and hinges, bars, whatsoever.
So it all needs to be in the right flow, and it needs to be there on takt time. So we can't have one machine running extremely high on takt because then we will build up a lot of buffer in our system, taking out square meters, placing our production. So we just produce it on time in full, also within the production. And on each of the stations, there's a risk of rework because we are checking quality at each station. And when we see failures, it needs to go back into the system. And that's not a problem because we know what we should do. But the problem is that it needs to go back into the system and go onwards into assembly on time to be delivered in full to the customer.
When we, as an example, if we in Denmark at Outline at the assembly line have a breakage of glass, and that can happen, for sure it can happen. We source the glass from Poland. They will need the glass the next day in order to be on time to the end customer. We are able to get the glass the next day from Poland because we have big trucks coming in for the factory every single day at our factories. We have this speed line to supply us. That's a part of being on time in full and meeting the customer demands at the end. To make it even more complex, a factory like this can have normal lead time, delivery time at four to six weeks for a normal order.
We can do fast in 10 days, or we can do express within four days delivery. So if you order today, you will have the window at your home Wednesday next week. It all runs on the same line. So in each of these stations, we have speed lines where we are setting, we are reserving capacity in order to meet customer demands and actually having this extremely fast and market-unique position where we can deliver with extremely speed. And of course, we are taking an extra charge for speed deliveries, but there is a demand, especially up to holidays. Right now, we have been the last seven, eight weeks, we have been selling 10% of the capacity at one of the Danish factories on speed delivery because people, they want the windows before Christmas. It has to be finalized.
And I could say the same for a lead transfer, because the route exemption needs to be invoiced and paid before New Year. So having that speed to the market is extremely important. This is key, and it's complex. If we look into what we have been doing in this downturn period, we have actually invested a lot in our factories. We have invested because we want to be ready when the market swings back. But we also have been investing because when we have the downturn, we know that we have the resources and we have the time at our factories in order to have the investments installed. And if you look into this, we can't just stop the production for four or five days and install a new machine.
We need to have it aligned with vacation or where we can set up the machine parallel, run on the old machine, and then shift to the new. So it's about timing in the production. Some of the major things that we've been doing is one factory project in Vetlanda. I'll come back to that. We have also been doing a factory expansion in Norway where we are actually adding a lot of square meters and a lot of machines into the factory. So we have raised our capacity quite a lot in Norway. The market is not there yet, but the market will come, and we wanted to be less dependent on operations production in Sweden because we need to utilize the Swedish operations for the Swedish market, and then general investments.
I have 12 factories, and through the last three years, I've been doing major machine investments in nine of the 12 entities. So we're really speeding up and being ready. We have also, and it's not because we like it, but we have also been looking into our IT systems, production ERP systems, and we have upgrading the systems. We have migrated, implemented new systems where we found it necessary. And we have invested a lot in competence training both within operations, but also within administration, sales. So actually getting ready to the upswing and be ready to work faster. Some examples. The one factory project in Vetlanda, Elitfönster, huge investment going from two sites to one. Of course, that will bring in more efficient. We will utilize the machinery way better than we have done in the past.
At the same time, we also looked into our product portfolio and where we could have new additions to the product family and also new ways of actually doing the production more sustainable, less energy usage, less use of wood, aluminum, glass, whatsoever. And we have improved the flow and our processes in the factories. And we have also been taking away some old legacy products that are nice to have, but where we see less sold volume. And at the same time, we had invested in actually strengthening the products that we see the demand growing in the market. We have the Retro, the old-fashioned Swedish window where we know that our competitors are actually taking capacity out of the market. And here we have a chance to actually take market shares with our Retro portfolio.
We have introduced tilt and turn window with hidden hinges, so more design into the product. Fredrik, you showed the low threshold, and it's not just a threshold. It's actually a clever product that adjusts to when you pass it. So it's way easier for elder people or people in wheelchairs to pass the threshold. And this is some of the things that will be a demand from municipalities going forward because they want us to stay at home as long as possible. So all housing should be elder care ready, and this is just a part of it. And we are moving closer to a product launch which we call Precision, where we will come with a higher, better design Elitfönster portfolio in January. And this is just things that happen along with the improvement of flow and capacity in Elitfönster.
If we look into Outline, this is one of the factories that we're actually heavily invested in because this brand has been growing a lot during the past years. The factory is today running three shifts, 24, five, six days a week. We are expanding the factory, and we are expanding the capacity every year. Consumer sales and product sales, 85-15 ratio. We want to do as much consumer sales as possible, but we know that we need some of the product sales in order to have the capacity aligned during the year. We also have some customers that expect us to sell bigger projects. We are supporting Carlson heavily, and we are also supporting Allan Brothers in the U.K. We have a seasonality swing from 1,400 hours a week to 3,100 hours a week, and that's a huge swing.
So right now, this week, we are running very close to 3,100 hours a week, and in two weeks, we should be down to 1,400 after Christmas. And we want to do that without taking away a lot of people. And we are already prepared, and in Outline, in the beginning of January, we are taking away 10% of our blue collars, only 10%. And we can still remain profitable because we are extremely flexible in the way we work with our people. And during high season, they are saving hours in a bank, and these hours, they can use to stay at home when we go into the low season. And that's an agreement that has been functioning for many, many years, and it's really one of the keys for defending our position in the market because we are not getting more than our competitors in price.
We believe that we do it a little bit more clever than competitors, but we are in the same market, and we are way more profitable than competition. I also had to add to the pricing discussion and the question you got, Fredrik, how we do clever pricing. In Outline, we know exactly which order sizes we have with hit rate every single week. If we see that, for an example, if the order sizes from EUR 10,000 to EUR 12,000, if we see the hit rate going up, then we address pricing. We adjust prices because then we, okay, if we get more orders, then we are more competitive. We are raising prices in that level in the market. That's extremely flexible and easy, fast, addressable pricing actions to take.
We could also see that we need to lower prices when we see the hit rate going down, but this is just examples of how we are working with prices. And the fast delivery concepts in Outline, that's four weeks, 10 days, or four days. And they are having a OTIF of 99.75% in the market and also to the U.K. and Irish colleagues, always delivering on time. And it's not only about machines, it's not only about the products, it's not only about the suppliers, but it's also about taking actions when things occur in production. So if a glass breaks, take actions, order that extra glass fast. And every Friday, I know exactly which windows were not delivered on time, and I know exactly why they were not delivered on time. And it's also about being best in class in service levels.
We have a service level that we are offering two hours waiting time for a quote. If it's a smaller quote, then our customers will have the quote in two hours. Otherwise, it will be there in 24 hours. We are also taking care of the claim handling. You will have a response the next day, and within two weeks, we will be on site. We have the direct contact, even though we are selling to the retail. We have direct contact to carpenters because the retail, they know that we are so loyal that they can allow their customers to have the direct contact to Outline. That's also key in being successful. Then to Outrup, where we have migrated our ERP system, whole production IT system during the last 18 months.
It's a huge project because it's not only about the finance, it's about how we steer and ensure that our machinery is working with the right data so they can supply the right measured products for the assembly lines, etc. And we can ensure that we have the right flow and takt in our production. So this is actually key to our performance. We needed to do it in Outrup because we were on a very old-fashioned system and we couldn't get support for that system anymore. But we migrated to a known system which we use in Sweden and in Denmark and also in a big part of the e-commerce business. But we have very, very few standard IT systems within the window and door industry, maybe a handful in Europe. So we don't have a lot to choose among.
And we would definitely not want to go on a special design solution like SAP for windows or something. We needed to do to migrate to something that we know and where we can utilize the lean experience because there's also lean experience in how we use the systems. So Outrup, they migrated to a system where their sister companies have been using for many years. And it was, of course, done with big support from the Danish, the other Danish entities, and especially from the shared service centers. And the focus was to ensure that we were not standing still in production because we have seen that happen with a lot of our competitors. Of course, we had machines standing still for one or two hours, but at no time the full production was standing still. So we actually managed to go through this system change not without pain.
There was a lot of pain, and there will always be a lot of pain, but we are in a much better place now. Now we are actually looking into how we can optimize the flow, ensure that the takt times are synchronized and getting more out of our system and taking away a lot of bottlenecks within the production. That's also part of IT migration. Then when this is all set up and working, then we can reduce lead times, we can reduce, and we can increase our OTIF. Very often when I go into a window production and I'm asking, how many minutes, how many hours does it take to produce a window? The answer would be somewhere between 1.5-4 hours, depending on the complexity within the product.
They are very often, they are really proud that they can do it in 1.5 hours. When you then ask them, okay, 1.5 hours, what's your lead time? What's the time between start of production to end of production? That can be somewhere between 10 and 25 days, meaning that the products are standing still in production way too many days. That's fine if we have a lot of square meters, but it's also risky because things can happen. You need to take away that buffer. The more integrated, the better you are aligned in your takt times, the more of this buffer time you can take away and running fast to your customers. Summarizing, window and doors can seem like a simple product. It's only four or eight pieces of wood and a piece of glass. It's not.
There's a lot of complexity within the details and the design freedom that we can deliver on. We are extremely depending on keeping up a high service level because that is our major, most important USP: deliver on time, be quick to customer. We are extremely aware that our operational benefit within our production flow is important, and there isn't that much benefit of producing 100 of the same window compared to the same window 100 times. It equals more or less up, but taking away the seasonality in our market, and that's why U.K. projects are important because they don't see the same seasonality as we do in the Nordics, so we can put in more orders in low season, and then flow and takt efficiency, OTIF, it's not only about machines, it's actually about people, our colleagues understanding the necessity of delivering in time.
And of course, the IT systems that we use, most of all, having the customer in focus in all we do, optimizing their experience, making them happy, that will improve our competitive advantage. Thank you.
Yeah, so thank you. So I've been here for three months, so pretty new into the game. And don't ask me about details in windows because I don't have that background at all. I have a long background in HR, but also sustainability in different types of companies before I joined here. And I'm super happy to be here. And you also see a lot of engagement from the former speakers into windows and details. And I think it's fantastic, the engagement that we have in our people. Already been traveling around in our sites and seeing a lot of different people there. And it's a fantastic group of companies, I must say.
So happy to be here, and I will be very short. Fredrik talked about this before, and one key is the people, of course. And the value sits in the people in the companies. And when we buy them, Björn was also onto it, and Kurt was explaining how it is to join. So where we look a lot into when we buy the companies is the people. What type of management do we have there? Is there value? Is there risks into that? So of course, then short just reflections from my side, my first three months, it's of course can be wrong or right, but I see a lot of high engagement in the people. We have succession plans in place. I think we have proven that by also putting Kurt on stage.
You've done your succession, I think, and there is a lot in the management team that have done their journey into Inwido. We would say today that around 57% of the directors are coming internally and moving up into positions as MDs and so on in our companies. And that is, of course, key that you were able to do that, not only recruiting externally. So I think the mix is the best to do, and that we need to have good plans for, and we do have that, I would say, but we can be even better. And that is part of my assignment to do to see to that we will become even better in that. Another part that I think we need to work on a little bit is to work on to find more women in leading positions.
I'm not talking about the group management. I'm talking about the MDs and the key people out in our companies. I would say that that is, if you look into the companies, it's a lot of male. And that's the history, I think, Kurt. But you have a couple of women. Yeah, you do. Yeah. And then I would also say that what sticks out with Inwido, comparing to all the other companies I've been to, is the decentralized. I think Fredrik was onto that also. It's totally different from where I come from. I've been in other companies that we talked about being decentralized, but we were not compared to this. Not at all. And that's the beauty of Inwido, I think, and the success of Inwido.
And that also demands a different type of leadership from the group management and from the leaders on the top because you need to be a lot more braver to leave the control and to leave the power out in the business. But that has also been the success, I would say. So a lot of other companies can learn from Inwido, I would say. Yes. And the key enablers that I will work on and continue working on that we have been doing also before is the whole succession planning, the leadership, how we lead these types of companies into the future in this volatile world that we live in. What type of leadership do we need? And also training, creating academies, train our people both in the business and in the school, sitting in the training and in training bank or whatever you say. Yes.
Then we will come to the Great Place to Work. I think Fredrik mentioned it. This is a survey that we have done since 2010. We ask our employees, all of them. So if we buy a company, they will be entered into this and trained into using this employee engagement survey. And that happens during the year. After a year, they will be included into it. And I think we have a fantastic result. When we talk to Great Place to Work, they say above 70%, it's a good score. It's a really good score. And this year, we improved ourselves and hit it with 2%. And what it also says is that we have a high response rate because if the response rate is low and the score is high, it would not say anything, I would say.
So it also says that it's important for the people to say what they feel, but also that during the year, we work with the result because my experience is that if we don't work with the result, people will not answer the survey next year. So I think this is fantastic. And for sure, we will have to celebrate around this. You probably yourself have answered the surveys at your company, and probably there is a lot of discussions around how many are answering and if they are answering or not. And I must say that doing this helps us also understanding where we have our weaker points, of course. Yeah, I think that's what I was planned to say.
So I did it in a short session because I know that Peter's on his way up to the stage, and I know that you're interested to hear what he wants to say also. Any questions for Malin? No, but I mean, the people side is very important because no matter if we have the money or the machines or whatever, but if we don't have the right employees and they are happy, we will not be in a good position. No. Yeah. So any questions for Malin? I hope next year I will be able to tell you what we have done and hopefully also successfully done.
My name is Peter Welin. I've been here for 27 years. So as many of my colleagues who have been here for quite many years, it means that this market and this company is very exciting.
I must say, during the last two, three years, the market has been very exciting, challenging, and as well as exciting. When it comes to our sales, we divide our sales into two different segments, customer segments. We changed that segment during last year. So we divide it between consumer and product. Consumer, that's about 59% of our sales, and product is 38% of our sales. And then we have other, that's 3% of our sales. Other, that equals mainly exports. And as Matt told before, this market is a very local market, meaning the export is quite slow. When it comes to consumer market, 59% of sales or SEK 5.2 billion rolling 12 months, that is actually quite meaning that consumers are buying the windows mainly for renovations.
It is short lead times, one or two to eight weeks, meaning that all the backlog that we have end of one quarter when it comes to consumers, everything is going to be sold the next coming quarter. When it comes to our product sales, equal to then 38% of sales or 3.4 billion SEK rolling 12 months, that's quite long lead times. Sometimes we can take orders with a short lead time of one quarter, but most of the time it's more than two, three quarters, can be up to two years. Quite big difference than looking at our delivery times when it comes to project as well as consumers. Meaning that the order backlog end of our quarter related to projects will not be fully delivered next coming quarter, can be several quarters ahead.
When it comes to profitability, I can say that most of the profitability or the higher profitability is within the consumer compared to the product sales. We start with the consumer market and we looked in at the order intake rolling 12 months. This page is showing the order intake latest 12 months only from the consumer market, and we had a really good end of last year or since autumn, the consumer market started to increase the order intake. We had a little bit negative in Q4, - 2%, but then in Q1 was + 2%. We were quite positive when it comes to the order intake from the consumer markets. End of the last year, in the beginning of this year, we had quite a positive view on 2025.
Now we were in Q1. We had a positive view. The order intake was going up, and now we are planning for the capacity for this year, this 2025, because now we are in a low season, but we have to plan what will the capacity need be for the high season 2025. Then things happened. Things happened in the beginning of Q2. The order intake started to decline. We had calculated, expected, predicted a higher order intake and continued growth in order intake and consumers, but order intake started to decline in Q2, -4%, and then additional -2% in Q3 against our predictions. If we look at the order intake, if we look at the consumer markets and look at which are our largest markets when it comes to consumer sales, Denmark is the most important market for us.
43% of consumer sales is related to Denmark. This means that sales that we are doing in Denmark were reported in Scandinavia, but it also includes the e-commerce sales that we're doing then in Denmark, so 43% of the sales is related to Denmark when it comes to consumer sales, then we have Sweden 23%, we have U.K. 13%, Finland 8%, with Norway 7%, and then Ireland 3%, so the most important market for us is then Denmark, then comes then Sweden. If we then look at the order intake, divide it between the different markets, this is the same thing with looking at the order intake, but now have an index instead.
So looking at the order intake, latest 12 months, developments since July last year up until September this year, we can see that the biggest market for us, Denmark, 43% of our sales, is quite stable, index 99, quite stable order intake, stable market in Denmark during the last months, quarters. Sweden, there we have a growth. The index is + 13%. We have a continued growth in order intake Sweden. Due to lower interest rates in Sweden, we see also higher consumer spend in Sweden. We see also better disposable income in Sweden, more increased house prices in Sweden, a number of house transactions also increased in Sweden. And then we also have the ROT. It's very hard for us to define how big is the impact of the ROT because all other KPIs is also going in the right directions.
The Swedish market is actually increasing, and the Swedish market is then 23% of our consumer sales. Norway is a bit challenging. Norway is not as big as the other markets, 7% of our sales, but it's a bit challenging, up and down, but still on a positive index, + 5% compared to the index of a little bit more than one year ago. We have Finland. Finland is a challenging market for us. We had a positive order intake in Finland end of last year, and we had a good start of this year. For Finland, we thought the market has started to level out, and we foresee a growth in Finland because we saw it in Q1, but then Q2 started and we see continued declines in the order intake. Now we are on index 87, - 13%.
If we then look outside of Nordic, we have then a good growth in Ireland, + 25%, the index of + 25%, but Ireland is only 3% of our sales. Outside of the Nordic, the U.K. market is the biggest, standing for 13% of our sales. And as you can see, the U.K. market is also a challenging market for us. Now we have an index of 86, - 14%. So the Finnish market and the U.K. market is the most challenging market for us. When it comes to Poland and Germany, they are negative, but they are also small looking at the total pictures. If we then look at the construction market, or sorry, the product market, the product market is quite a big difference compared to consumer markets when it comes to the order intake.
Here we see the same information, the order intake, latest 12 months, but the product market is so much more volatile compared to the consumer market because after the acquisition of Sidey and Walker, which we did in July or June, July 2023, we have a different company within our group. Sidey and Walker, when they signed contracts, they signed two-year contracts and large contracts. One year ago, we were here and we were presenting two new large orders within Scotland. They took two orders. They were a size of GBP 22.5 million. We had a positive order intake growth within the product market. It was plus 60%. We continued in Q1, beginning of this year. We continue to have a growth inside Sidey and Walker, as well as in Carlson and Ireland. We grow the order intake by another 32%.
In Q2, it declined by 16% because in Q2 one year, the previous year, we had a large order in Ireland of about EUR 9-10 million. So now we had a decline in the order intake on the product market, -16%. In Q3, it is +6%. The order intake when it comes to the product market is much more volatile. Do not look too much on the order intake only for one single quarter because it can differ. It depends when we take these large orders, when we take these large two-year contracts. Looking now at the order intake for Q4 this year, we are then going to compare to Q4 last year when we took these two large orders of GBP 22.5 million.
The order intake is so much more volatile on the product market compared to the consumer markets. Look at that sales. Most of our sales on the product markets is related to Finland, Finland 37%. Then we have U.K. 26% and Sweden 23%. Once again, which are the most challenging markets right now? It's Finland's a challenging market, U.K.'s a challenging market, and Sweden, when it comes to the new build market, is also a challenging market. However, in U.K., we're also selling them in Scotland. Main part of the product sales in U.K. is related to Scotland, and there we are talking about renovation of social housing. The Scottish markets, there we're doing better compared to the other markets. What does that mean then? This means that we have a negative mixed impact right now in our business.
Now I've changed the scale here, so it looks very dramatic. So because then I can show more. That's how development is. So looking at the consumer market, this is the consumer market. Now you can see the sales per quarter and the rolling 12 months. And as you can see, we were growing. We had a positive growth up until Q1, and then the order intake started to decline, and thereby the sales have started to decline as well. Whereas in the product market, we have continued growth. So the order intake within the product market is very volatile, but the sales is stable because we are planning the productions and the lead times on these orders can be done up to two years as it is for the Scottish business.
So we can see that the sales when it comes to consumers is going down, whereas product is going up, negative mix for us. Another thing that is also happening is the seasonality. We have seasonality both within consumer as well as within project, but we have a higher seasonality within consumer compared to the product markets. As you can see, the Q1 is actually declining more within the consumer market compared to the product market. It's a little bit down, but not as down as it is when it comes to consumer markets. So it's very good for us to be on the product market because it means that we have a higher sales, more volume during the low season, during the winter, compared to only being on the consumer markets. But once again, we're now entering a more negative mix. So this is a development for Inwido.
Then you can ask a question, okay, how has the market developed? So this graph is then showing the market development. We only have this for Nordic. I don't have the same data for the other markets. So this is the Nordic markets. This is the data number of windows sold index from Q4 2017 up until now, rolling 12 months. And the sources, they are these branch organizations, meaning within each country, the producers are members. And then you report your figures into the branch organizations, and then you get the data out how big the market is. However, when it comes to some markets, especially Finland, we have new companies entering these organizations, meaning they have started to report the figures, but they were not in the past. So the downturn in Finland is actually bigger compared to this graph. So what can we see then?
We can see that the Swedish is now index 59 compared to 2017. We can see that Norway is index 75, Denmark and Finland are about 80. We can see that the peak was in Q4 2022. Since the peak, the Nordic market has declined by about 30% in volume. I've been here for 27 years. I was here during the financial crisis, but I never experienced such a high or big decrease in such a short term. Once again, it is an exciting market, challenging and very exciting to be. I don't have this graph for U.K., but I can say that U.K. is even worse. What have we done during this period? This is the sales development for Inwido 2022 up until rolling 12 months to now September. In 2022, we had sales of SEK 9.5 billion. We are today on SEK 9 billion.
We have acquired companies with sales of about SEK 900 million in 2022 up until September. We have a positive FX of about SEK 200 million, meaning we have lost SEK 1.7 billion of sales or 18% negative organic growth during this period. If we then add on the price increases, because you all remember what happened in 2023, 2023, the inflation came, material prices went up, we increased our prices, meaning we lost 25%-30% in volume during this time period. At the same time, we have only lost one percent units or percent points when it comes to operating EBITDA margin, declined from 11.4% in 2022 down to 10.4%. So 80% lower organic growth, volume decline between 25%-30%, we lost 1% units. This graph is showing the sales as well as operating EBITDA margins since the IPO 2014 up until today, rolling 12 months.
As you can see, Inwido has been between 9.7% and 11.9% in operating EBIT margin, meaning we are flexible. One of the reasons is, of course, what Mats was talking about, how we are working with our factories, how we are working with our costs, and the flexibility is the keyword within this business. We've been able to show that even though the market is challenging, we've been able to show that we can generate the profits and we are quite stable when it comes to our profitability. We have financial targets. Just checking the time. We have financial targets. One of the targets is, of course, that we are going to reach 20 billion SEK of sales in 2030. We have a target when it comes to return on operating capital. We are today on 12.7%. Why do we have return on operating capital?
Why don't we have an operating EBIT margin or profit margin in percentage of sales? I saw an article yesterday in one newspaper. They were criticizing us because we don't have that target. And the problem with that target to have a percentage of sales is that we are going to build this company even bigger through acquisitions. We are going to acquire companies. Most of the companies we acquire will have less profitability compared to Inwido. Latest acquisition has a higher profitability, but the companies that we are seeking to will have less profitability compared to Inwido when we acquire them. And then we can improve their margins. But this will mean that the operating EBIT margin will be diluted when we make acquisitions.
Thereby, we have a Return on Operating Capital target instead, because even though we acquire less profitable companies, it will not have the same impact on Return on Operating Capital. That's why we have Return on Operating Capital targets. And then we have a leverage target. We are today on 0.7, excluding IFRS 16, 1.0 including, and then a dividend policy saying we should pay out 50%. If we start with the dividends, we have followed the dividend policy of 50% during the last years. Since the IPO, we have paid out SEK 2.5 billion in dividends. It was only 2019. We're not following the policy because in 2019 we had a COVID. So we took a decision beginning in 2020 not to pay out on the dividends. Otherwise, we have more or less followed the dividend policy.
If we then look at our net debt, the leverage, we are today on 0.7, excluding IFRS 16. We then add on the IFRS 16 debt, SEK 466 million as per September. We are on 1.0, meaning we have a strong balance sheet, and we are also a cash flow generated company. The debt is actually decreasing or has decreased during the last years. When it comes to the net debt and when it comes to acquisitions, we include the call put options into our net debt. When you look into our net debt calculations, when we acquire companies, as Björn was talking about before, we only acquire companies. We don't want to acquire 100%. Sometimes we have to, but we don't really want to acquire 100%. We are quite keen to acquire 70%-80%, and then we have a minority to 20%-30%.
However, we have call/put options on our remaining 20%-30%, meaning I have to treat that as a debt because I'm obligated to pay that out in the future. The payment in the future will then be dependent on the future performance, so the future profits, meaning I don't really know how big the debt is, but I have to make an estimation of the debt. Then we book that debt in our net debt. Looking at the debt per September this year, we can see that we have SEK 387 million booked as a net debt for future payments for the call/put options. I have received a question: why don't you use earn-out instead? Instead of how you acquire 100%, then you can have an earn-out mechanism. Same thing.
The only thing is a quite big difference when it comes to how to treat the difference of the future payment compared to what you're calculated to. If you believe you're going to pay out an earn-out of 100, but the payout is only 80, then you have a difference of 20. If it's an earn-out, you have to treat that 20 as an income statement. Through the income statement, it will be a positive impact on your income statement, meaning the profit will go up. When you have a call/put option as we have, I book the difference through the equity, through the balance sheet. It will not impact the income statement.
That's why I'm very much keen to have a call/put option instead of earn-out solutions, because then I can separate what is happening through the income statement, that's operational, and the balance sheet, the impact when it comes to call/puts. And if I make a too high calculation for the future or too low, everything just goes through the balance sheet instead and not impact an income statement. When it comes to working capital, we've been working quite much when it comes to working capital. We had a large improvement in working capital up until 2020, and since then we are quite stable. We are on this 4% working capital minus 4%. Very good to be on a negative working capital.
As a CFO, I'm very pleased to be on negative working capital, but not when the market is declining and our sales are declining, because that means it costs us cash to decline. So when the market is growing, it's more positive to have a negative, meaning we will gain cash when the market is growing, and then we have return on operating capital. We are today on 12.7%. We will have to improve the resale by SEK 150 million to come back to the 50% target. We will have a negative impact on return on operating capital when it comes to Q4 because of the latest acquisitions of Victorian Sliders in England, because we are going to make the payment now in December, so the balance sheet of Victorian Sliders is going to be consolidated from December, but we'll not get any income from that company in 2025.
The income will come in 2026, so we will have a negative impact from Return on Operating Capital when it comes to Victorian Sliders for this year, positive for next year, and then the last questions before we open up the last slide before we open for questions, and that is related to our growth target. We have been showing today that we still believe in a target of 20 billion SEK in 2030. Björn was presenting that, yes, we have the targets, we have a short list, we have a long list, and we are working with the list. We have made four acquisitions during the last three, four months, and we have the balance sheet to do it. For us to reach the target of 20 billion SEK, we have to grow by about 10 billion SEK from now on. We were on 9 billion SEK in September.
We have added about 900 million, a little bit more than 900 million with the latest four acquisitions, meaning we have to grow by about 10 billion in sales during the next coming five years. We will do it through organic growth, and we'll do it through acquisitions. When it comes to acquisitions, we have the balance sheets. Our net debt to EBITDA is 0.7. If we increase that to 2.5, we can then extract 2 billion SEK for acquisitions. Then Inwido is a cash flow generated company. Looking at the cash flow generations, since 2021, we have made 4.6 billion in results or sorry, cash flow from operating activities. The working capital is quite unchanged, a little bit increased due to the lower sales.
We have spent 1.2 billion SEK in CapEx during these years, and we have paid out a dividend of 1.7 billion SEK, meaning we had generated 1.7 billion SEK that can then be used for acquisitions, and during this period, we have used SEK 800 million for acquisitions, so we have the balance sheet. We are a cash flow generating company. Even though we have a challenging market, we've been able to generate cash flows, and then that new cash flow we've got to generate will then be used for future acquisitions, meaning we don't need more money from your investors to do it. We need money from the banks, so I'm very glad to see that we have some banks here, but we don't need the money from investors. We don't have to make a new issue of shares.
If we don't do all acquisitions in January next year, then we need new cash because then we don't have the time to generate the cash flow. This was my short time. So we open up some questions.
Thank you, Peter. You understand why we put Peter last on the agenda, because if he was earlier, you would all leave during the coffee break. So I hope you took notes from that. And there's a reason that some business schools in Sweden actually use Inwido's financial reporting as a textbook example. So well done, Peter. We're running a bit late, but I suggest we, I mean, we definitely have time for some questions and answers. So please fire away. And of course, you don't have to ask questions just to myself and Peter, the rest of the group management team, and Kurt also available for Björn for questions. Please, Sofia.
Thank you. Sofia here from DNB Carnegie. Thank you for all your presentations. Maybe a question to Björn. So this is M&A related. And yes, of course, I'm a little bit curious. Acquired sales has been SEK 900 million, as you presented, since 2022. And of course, you have all the prerequisites to actually acquire SEK 7.5 billion until 2030. What would you say, in your view, what's different now, or what do you need to see, or what needs to happen for you to execute on that plan? And maybe if you can answer in terms of what is within Inwido's control and what do you need to see as external factors.
Good question. Well, I touched upon it before. I think a year ago, we all thought that both the market and the M&A market, our window and door market and M&A market, would be improved during 2025.
We didn't really see that. We've been in many dialogues over the year during this year, and we have felt that owners are a bit hesitant because they haven't really seen the pickup in demand. So they wait a bit in order to get better pay for their companies. It's slightly different now, and I hear that from many other industries as well, that it's a more positive momentum in the M&A market, and people are seeing the light in the tunnel, and also looking at, I mean, as I mentioned, we have feet on the ground in many of the European markets and are in contact with potential sellers, and many of them are now willing to meet, willing to hopefully sell if the price is right, and that we didn't really see a year ago, I would say.
So I'm more confident now in terms of looking at the short list and long list that we have versus a year ago.
And maybe if I can add to that, I think it was also many lessons learned for me from, let's say, the first half of this year on how we also work, that we were maybe betting on one or maybe two horses at the time. And then you become really vulnerable if those horses don't really reach the finish line for various reasons. Again, we're super picky, so we've decided to jump off one or two processes. But we are now working in a somewhat different way with many different horses that are running in parallel, and that's exactly what we need. Some of that is coming from within. Some of that is coming from more positive sentiment in the marketplace and so forth.
I think that is why we can a little bit more comfortably say that the pipeline, the funnel looks quite good, and the deal certainty, generally speaking, with Inwido is typically very high. Once we are in a process, we typically get there.
So me and Björn, we've been working together now for 19 years, and we have made together 50 acquisitions. And the pipeline has never been as big as it is right now. So we believe in our targets to reach this SEK 7.5 billion additional sales. I mean, if you work your way backwards, it's SEK 1.5 billion of sales per annum, right? I think we touched upon it before.
I mean, in the current pipeline, in the funnel, not necessarily saying that we're in a live process, but there are cases in the funnel that are individually of that size, meaning that if you do acquire one company with 1.5 billion SEK of sales, of course, to some extent, you're putting a little bit more on red. But quite oftentimes, it means that you're literally getting really a dominant position in that individual market. And there are more than one case of that magnitude in the funnel. So it gives us quite a lot of comfort.
Yeah, a follow-up question also. So the transaction costs paid for M&As that actually didn't, were not finalized during 2025, are quite high, I would say, compared to historically.
Has something changed here in terms of what type of targets you look at, type of processes you're included in, or what is the lesson learned here and what
can we expect similar costs ahead?
When it comes to, we had two losses during this year. One was at the beginning of the year, where we spent some money of that acquisitions. Then the fortune was a loss for us. The later one was this now during the summer. There we spent quite a lot of money because it was very complex tax situations. So me and Björn, we spent hours and hours and hours with tax consultants to find out the right structures. Unfortunately, the seller decided to leave the negotiation table when everything was finalized. So we were going to sign on Tuesday morning. Everything was set on a Friday lunch. We were very happy. Everything was done.
The whole deal was concluded with our advice, with their advice, and then we got an email late Friday evening when the seller said he was going to pull back because it was too emotional for him to sell. It was his baby. He started a company. It was just too emotional for hi m to sell.
Can I add maybe a third? That was a structured auction process, so we won that auction, and we're really, really super happy because it would also actually be a brand new market for us, and then it's just one minute to 12. We went separate ways. It was a large company as well. It was a large company as well. It doesn't mean that that one will not come back. In fact, it could very well come back at some stage.
We will, of course, be dead certain that it happens then, given the time and money that we've invested into it, including spending half of our summer breaks on that deal. But it goes to show us both Peter and Björn have said that it gets really, really emotional at the very late stage. We just have to be prepared for that. This one, it was not one of my better Friday evenings, I have to say. But yeah, it's the way it is.
It has happened before that they walk away quite late, but it's very, very seldom. So this is quite a unique thing that happened during the summer. Also, at the beginning of the year, a lot of things we lost is quite also unique for us that we're losing them so late in the process.
So yes, it can happen in next year as well or in the next coming years, but it's quite unlikely. So during our 19 years together, we can say this has happened two, three times before. And now it happened twice this year. So you should not calculate with that extra costs as a running cost for us. This is exceptional for this year.
Thank you. Albin from Kepler Cheuvreux
Esperlan Markets here. Just one quick maybe for Jonna now in Western Europe here. I think we saw one slide with 15% triple glazing currently. So just if we got any estimates on where it might be in one, two, three, four years. No, I think that would be a guessing game, to be honest. Or where it was like one, two, three years ago then. Well, I would say yeah 2%.
Yeah, I think three years ago it was. I think it's been moving since three years ago. Maybe there we were on single digits, but I mean, it's so unpredictable. Does anybody know how the world or Europe will now react and act on environmental incentives, etc.? We are in the U.K. The U.K. is, as an economy as a whole, a bit wobbly, I would say. But I mean, there are lots of improvements that can be done already on double glazing in that country. So it doesn't necessarily have to go into triple glazing for it to be a market where we see a lot of potential. So we shouldn't focus too much as I see it.
I don't know if Kurt might have a different view upon it, but there are other things in the U.K. market which makes it an interesting market for us to be in and where we can take further market share.
Thanks. Just to add to that, I mean, literally one year ago, there were quite advanced discussions from, let's say, an industry standard point of view that for new build, as from the summer that passed this year, for all new build, they would have to have windows with a 0.8 U-value, which is, again, a really advanced and super economic window to use. Then actually the industry, I'm not saying we did it, but the industry actually said, there's no way we can cater for that with that kind of short time frame. We need more preparation for it.
But if you see it in a positive way, I think the fact that they are de facto talking about this is a very positive sign of the fact that the industry needs to change. And they, of course, have quite a lot of building stock that can be more energy efficient going forward.
And just on the numbers from your side, you should want to sell triple glazing, right? Because it pushes top line. And
we like triple glazing windows, yeah. The more advanced, the better. But I mean, joking aside, I'm not joking. I'm super serious about it. But I think it's also on the theme of energy efficiency and sustainability and what have you. We are in the business of not necessarily windows and doors. We're in the business of indoor quality of life.
In that sense, yeah, it makes a huge difference if you have a triple-glazed window. Again, I used to live in London three years myself. I've never been as cold as during those winters. And I've even lived in Russia. So there's room for improvement, let's put it that way. And I think we want to move it towards the Danish setup. In Denmark, you start, like Matt said, it's the window and door. That's a piece of furniture. In Sweden, if I'm exaggerating, it's sometimes a bit like, yeah, we have a hole in the wall. We need to fill it with something. But there, they literally start with those really, really strong brands. And in the ads for when you're selling a house or you're selling an apartment, they literally put in the brand of the window make in there.
People go like, wow, I should pay a little bit extra because it's a premium window and door setup in that house. Sorry, Jonna, please.
Okay. I just want to add that, of course, what Fredrik mentioned around the threat of 0.8, because I think it was felt like a threat actually in the U.K. market, that has pushed product development. Now quite a few are looking into double glazing, but then adding a very, very thin, yeah, a Corning from our iPhones into the double glazing so that you still can use the same platforms as today. And that is actually something that a lot of businesses now are looking into. And of course, we are in those dialogues as well. So I mean, things will happen. Things will move.
Doesn't necessarily have, well, if you call that triple glazing, yeah, maybe, but it would be an enhanced double glazing, I would say.
No. Then first of all, thank you very much, everyone. Just to wrap up today's session, I'm literally one slide between you and the lunch. So I think the key messages, hopefully you grasped them already today. Inwido is on a super exciting, profitable growth journey towards 2030. We are already executing on what I believe is a very, very clear roadmap. I think we do it really well. Yes, we need the organic growth to bounce back in all forms and shapes. But in the meantime, we are eagerly awaiting the EPBD implementation. And we are successfully executing on the M&A front. And there's more to come there as well. So we are cautiously optimistic already for 2026. Thank you very much.
And for those of you that had time and that are hungry, we will, of course, offer you a simple lunch outside as well. And they will continue to have Q&A out there as well. And then everyone is available. Thank you very much.