Hello everyone, and welcome to LumenRadio's Capital Markets Day, both to everyone here in our studio in Stockholm and to all of you who are joining us online. My name is Rob Suddaby, and I will be guiding you through today's proceedings. In just a couple of moments, we're going to be welcoming CEO Hans Larsson and CFO Sanna Svensson to the stage. They'll be giving us an introduction into the company, as well as looking at our strategy and financial targets. We will then shift focus and welcome Mikaela Pettersson, Product Development Manager, who's going to be talking about our business area, lighting control. We'll take a short coffee break, and after that, Carl Wäppling will be coming to the stage to look at our second business area, which is building automation.
We will then welcome Hans Larsson back to the stage for a short wrap-up before we take questions and answers. We're going to save all the questions until the end today. For those of you online, feel free to post questions as we go along, and we will try and field as many of them as possible at the end of the day. A little bit of housekeeping for people that are with us here in Stockholm. There is no fire alarm planned, but if you do hear an alarm, then you should calmly exit through the door you came in. That being said, I'd like to now hand you over to CEO Hans Larsson and CFO Sanna Svensson.
All right. Welcome to this LumenRadio Capital Markets Day once again. This is actually our first Capital Markets Day since our IPO in 2022. We thought a lot has actually happened in the company. We like to take this opportunity to give you a good update on where we are today, what has happened, and also a bit of what we look at for the future. I'm Hans Larsson. I'm the CEO of LumenRadio since 2024, and with me on stage, I have Sanna Svensson, our CFO since 2023. Let's go back a little bit to the basics. Lumen and radio, what's that? Well, lumen stands for light, radio symbolizes radio technology. We are a tech startup, you can say. 18 years ago, we started on technology.
One of our founders, Niclas Norlén, he's still active in the company. He's currently Director of Product Strategy. He was and still is passionate about radio technology, which is the core in what we do. We have an innovation called Cognitive Coexistence, and we talk about that. It's very difficult to understand for everyone, so I'll try just to anchor a little bit what it is and what kind of benefits it gives for us and our customers. But first, slightly more tech. Radio frequencies, it's a limited resource, and it's most of them are actually spoken for. So the 2.4 GHz band is the only global license-free band which is open for anyone to use all over the world. This also means that everything is there, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, a lot of home automation systems.
Anything, where you need radio, you can use 2.4 GHz, so it's really crowded. This is also why wireless communication sometimes is perceived as less robust or less reliable than wired communication. In a snapshot of how the 2.4 GHz band can look, it can look like this. All this orange and gray, that's actually traffic which is all around us all the time from Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, whatever it is. The green is what we do. We do within milliseconds, we move our communication to where there is space. We listen, we move, and we send where there is space. To make it a little bit less techie, imagine that we are this green Vespa on a congested road.
Wherever we are, we choose the space and we drive where we do not disturb any other traffic and where there is open road. This gives our technology the benefit that we always get through and we can also broadcast with a higher output power as we are not disturbing anyone else. That means we get an exceptionally good range. This is when you compare our technology to other wireless technologies, ultra reliable and extremely long range. We obviously have patents. We patented the first technology, and then we have added patents over time. We have a patent portfolio which protects our technology for quite some time to go.
From the beginning, of course, you know, technology is fun and interesting for a lot of us, but it doesn't make a business. Where do you actually need ultra reliable wireless communication? We have, from the beginning, looked at lighting control, building automation, industrial automation, where there are a lot of good use cases where we have a technology fit. In 2012, we had one of the breakthroughs. We had tried a lot of these areas, but we had a breakthrough in 2012. The picture here is from the Coachella festival in the U.S. What the organizers wanted to achieve here was to synchronize the floodlights which are behind all this crowd, behind the audience with what's happening on stage.
It was impossible to pull cables, DMX cables, all through this crowd because they would be destroyed. They really wanted to go wireless, but who can do that? It's 500 meters from the stage to these searchlights and the radio atmosphere is super crowded. There are a lot of wireless, and there was also free Wi-Fi for all of the audience. You have tens of thousands of people with free Wi-Fi. This was a real milestone for us. We went in, we solved it. These floodlights in the back, they were in sync with what happened on stage, and that created quite a noise in the industry. From there on, we have been able to develop our wireless DMX, our CRMX into what is now a de facto standard in this space.
Next breakthrough moment for us was in the film and TV industry. Our lighting control was used in real-time shoots. You all recognize where this shoot is coming from, and this is the first time you actually have accurate lighting control wirelessly when you take the scene. This is a scene which you could only take once. They actually blow up the trees, and they do all the things live. I heard a figure, not sure if it's true, that it was like a $30 million shoot, and the wireless just have to work. This was really a breakthrough. It also created a lot of noise in the industry and helped us become the standard in film and TV for all wireless lighting control.
You can say what we did exactly here was to give the creative light designers the technology to actually realize it instead of going post-production, which is costly and less effective. You won't get the light in the face and the shadows. With that said, CRMX has been adopted as de facto standard for wireless lighting control. This is part of our organic growth journey, but we have also had a few acquisitions. The first acquisition we made was in 2020. We acquired Wireless Solution, and with Wireless Solution, we really solidified our position in the entertainment lighting industry. Second acquisition was Radiocrafts, Norwegian company, which we acquired in 2023, and here we added our segment, smart metering.
Radiocrafts has been active in the metering, and we will talk more about this a little bit more later on. Acquisitions is still very much part of our growth agenda, even though organic growth is really close to our heart, and we have a lot of possibilities to grow organically. Let's move from the past. This was just a little bit of an update of where we're coming from. How does it look for us today? Today, we have two business areas. The first one we call lighting control. Here we have entertainment lighting as the biggest, in terms of revenue, business we have. We work with architectural lighting and indoor and outdoor lighting.
The symbols we put next to this is a bit how we perceive our position in these fields, where we're quite dominant in entertainment lighting, and we have a lot more to do in the other areas. The other business area is building automation. Here we have smart metering is the biggest part of this with the Radiocrafts acquisition, and then we do building automation, industrial automation. Here we have a really good fit in both these areas. Right now, for the next couple of years, we are really doubling down on the building automation side, where we think we can generate growth, a lot faster than in the industrial automation. We will soon dive deeper into which actual problems we solve in these areas and, which customers we have and, how we get paid.
We'll come back to that. I will go in the next slide to talk a little bit more on what we actually deliver. This is not the most sexy slide, but this is the brutal reality. We have our unique firmware, which gives our OEM customers and our own product range this superior range and high-quality wireless. We deliver that mostly on radio modules. We put the firmware on a pre-certified radio module, which is super easy to integrate in an OEM customer's product, and they can go very fast to market with the certifications partly done from our side. This is a perfect delivery vehicle for our unique firmware.
The products they are being built into on the OEM side, a lot of lights, obviously, you understand that from the professional lighting side, but also sensors, meters, activators on the building automation side. On our own end, we make end user products, and they are kind of bridging the gaps. They can be transceivers or transmitters which actually send the signals to all kind of devices, or they can be part of a network when we create our wireless networks. The OEM customers we address with direct sales, so we have our own salespeople who work directly with them, and we help them out in integration and getting the products out of the market.
Our own products are being sold through distribution, so we have channels where we make the products available, and then we work, of course, with lighting designers, system integrators to convince them to use our technology. Both these are highly complementary to each other, so we cannot only have OEM customers or only our own products. They need to interact to build what we call an ecosystem or a communication system. You can imagine this a little bit like people speaking different languages, but here we have devices who speak DALI, DMX, BACnet, Modbus, a lot of different languages in the communication world. To maybe show this in a more understandable way, let's look at the building.
We can pretend that this is a building where the property owner decided to do a full renovation of the ventilation system, to create a better indoor climate and probably also a lower energy cost, which is one of the big drivers to do re-renovations of buildings today. To keep cost and downtime to a minimum, they use wireless Modbus, and what they can do is that they can actually select from OEM customers who have built in our radio module. They can complement that with products from our range, and then you can actually automate the entire building with wireless technology, saving lots of work and cost on cabling it.
We work with, we could say, a non-proprietary system because we always use standard communication languages which are already widely spread and widely available. All right, before we go into some facts and figures, I have a little bit of a bragging slide as well. I usually talk about, you know, there's more than 100 OEM customers who has integrated our products. We put some of the logo types here. We have a lot of great customers who've integrated our technology, and they trust us providing very reliable wireless connectivity to their products. With that said, Sanna, will you take us through a bit more of the facts and figures?
Yes, please. Thank you. Let me take you on a journey through facts and figures. I start with a word map. This is because we see that our product offer fits very well for the global market. We have our head office in Sweden, in Gothenburg, and there we also have some production facilities. Rest of the production takes place at contracted electronic manufacturers in Sweden, in Baltic States, and Poland. We have also in Norway a sales office and some operations. Further sales offices are located in U.S., Germany, and China. We are around 75 employees, and we are quite a diverse group of people. We represent 13 different nationalities. One-third of our management group are women, and 40% of our board of directors are also women, including the chair of the board. We aim to have 50% female managers in the group.
Last year, we had a turnover almost a quarter a billion SEK. Let's look if that is a good number compared to previous years. Here we see how our revenue has developed since 2020, and we see quite a good growth until 2023. Then it looks like quite flat, to be honest. Let's dig a little bit deeper in the details. We have also put in here figures concerning our two business areas, so lighting control in light green and building automation in dark green. They have had quite different lives the two last year. In 2024, lighting control lost almost 1/3 of its revenue compared to 2023, and that was the aftershock after the six-month-long Hollywood strike. In 2025, they already are back on track.
Building automation, on the other hand, had a very strong year 2024, and that was mainly driven by our subcategory, smart metering. Those of you who follow our quarterly reports knows that smart metering had struggles this spring, 2025 spring, was back to normal in autumn again and got its best order ever just before Christmas, namely $5.7 million, which gives a very good base now in 2026 when we start to deliver in the second quarter. You see, the last two years has been quite different if we look behind the curtains of those two business areas. Actually year 2025 in constant currency would have been the best ever. Now we hope for some tailwind for both business areas at the same time, and then the figures can look quite different.
Revenue is not everything, so let's dive a little bit lower down in the profit and loss. We have the gross profit, and our gross profit margin last year was 62.6%. Let's look if that is good, compared to previous years. Here we see it's actually very good. We have succeeded to grow gross profit margin from 54% up to almost 63%. We have the strongest margin at Lighting Control around 65%. A little bit less at Building Automation, which also explains why 2024 we see a dip, because that was the year when the mix between the business areas changed. We believe that strong margin is a sign that we have a good quality product that customers are willing to pay for.
We aim to have a gross profit margin on the healthy side of 60%, which also gives us a good ground when we want to deliver on our profitability target EBITDA. EBITDA last year was 16.3%. The fact is that last year our EBITDA was affected by the trade war. Even if we don't sell so much directly to U.S., we have big customers in U.S., and they produce in China. There were some weeks when the trade war reached its peak, and the duties went over 100%, so factories stood still. When factories stay still, also the need of new components from us stay still. In autumn, we were back to good EBITDA, and we think anyway that 16.3% was a good margin last year, taking everything into consideration. How have we delivered EBITDA earlier years?
Well, here we can see that we actually can meet and beat the target of 20%, yet during 2024 and 2025, the EBITDA was lower. This is an effect when the revenue is lower than expected and when we at the same time invest in organizational costs. We think that EBITDA in general is strong, and I think, I just end the comments on the profit and loss here and say just some words of the balance sheet. We have a strong balance sheet. We have healthy stock levels. We have accounts receivables and accounts payables in good shape. We have a strong bank balance and no loans. That gives a good base when we nurture our M&A agenda.
Now I leave the past figures, and then I say just some words about our new updated financial targets. A couple of days ago, we published our new updated financial goals. Now we have a revenue to reach half a billion SEK by 2030. Our profit goal, EBITDA over 20%, remains unchanged. Anyhow, this means that we shall more than double our revenue in five years with good profitability. Now I hand over to Hans so he can tell you more about how we can deliver on this strategy.
Thank you very much, Sanna. Yeah, that's a big question. I will kind of repeat myself a little bit. I mean, we are in the business of delivering ultra-reliable wireless connectivity with a superior range for applications where communication failure is not an option. We aim to be market leaders in the segments we are addressing. We are already a market leader in the entertainment lighting side, and we will talk a lot more of what we do to take that kind of position in the other areas during this afternoon. You will hear more about our business areas, market drivers, what we offer, and where we see our biggest growth potential. After that, I think, I hope that you will all realize that we have a good potential to deliver on our new financial targets.
Okay. Thank you, Hans.
That's from me. Thank you.
Yes. Thank you, Sanna. I'd like you, if you just stay on the stage for a couple of seconds. I have a question for both of you. You mentioned radio modules in your presentation.
Yeah.
Could you tell us more about software perhaps?
Yeah. Okay. The unique knowledge or IP we have is actually in the software. We talk about radio modules because that's the vast majority of products we actually deliver. But we can also deliver the software on a chip, or we can actually deliver software as is. What happens for our OEM customers who buy software, it's of course a more complex integration project, but it keeps, of course, the cost per product down for them in the end when they have invested in the integration. Modules, products, chips, software, we do it all, but we kind of simplify it when we focus on the radio modules.
Okay. Thank you. Sanna, one for you. I think you mentioned that we have a lot of funds in the bank. Do you have any plans to pay dividends if we don't find a company to buy?
Oh, thank you, Rob. That was a good question. That's true that we have a good cash position, and we want really like to reinvest that into growth. It can be an M&A, but it could also be that we develop new products or we enter new markets. It's also good to have cash as a resilience in challenging times. The real reason to have and keep the cash is to be able to act quickly when a good opportunity arrives.
Okay. Many thanks. Thank you, Sanna. Thank you, Hans. We're now going to move on, and I'd like to welcome to the stage Product Development Manager for Lighting Control, Mikaela Pettersson.
Thank you, Rob, Hans, and Sanna. My name is Mikaela Pettersson, and I'm Product Development Manager for Lighting Control. Today, I'm going to tell you a bit about what we are doing. I'm going to try to explain why we have been so successful in the past and how we plan to replicate that into other areas within lighting control. Before doing so, I would like to take you back to the basics. I think it's important that we all have the same understanding of what lighting control actually is. Imagine this, just a simple switch. This is the most basic level of controlling a light. As soon as you want more functionality, the complexity instantly increases. For example, you might want to dim the lights up and down.
Let's say, before a theater show starts, you would like to increase the intensity of the lights before the show starts. Another example of lighting control is adjusting the color temperature. Let's say you are a building owner with a fantastic historical building, and you want to set the light feeling and expression of that building. You want to control the color and make it just as warm as you want it to be. You have this case. Hundreds of fixtures. You have confetti machines and smoking machines. All of it needs to be perfectly synchronized and with very, very low latency. Everything should be timed to the schedule of the concert, to the audience, and to the music. Here, a simple on and off is definitely not enough. That is why you usually use the protocol called DMX.
You can think of this as a language that is a common language that more or less all fixtures within the entertainment industry speak to each other in. What we are doing very, very well is that we are turning this protocol into a wireless one. We have now also entered the market of DALI. This protocol is more used within buildings for like general lighting and outdoor, so for parks and football fields and street and road lighting, but also for commercial buildings. This protocol is less responsive, but that doesn't really matter in the case when you just want to dim up the light within a building, for example. I would like to tell you once again about Coachella because I think this is a really, really interesting part of our history.
In 2012, we had this huge breakthrough here. There were headlines like Dr. Dre and Radiohead that attracted more than 55,000 people per day. Everyone in the audience was offered free Wi-Fi. I don't think Hans mentioned enough how very challenging this is for a wireless signal to be transmitted in this environment. The production team wanted to synchronize the lights in the back of the audience with the concert schedule, and it should be with very low latency. Running cables from the back of the audience was simply not possible. We managed to provide the wireless link when no one else could. Since then, we have been the de facto standard within entertainment lighting. After this, we have expanded our business into film and broadcast. Here, money is. Every second is money here.
A film set can cost up to $5 million, and that makes it very, very important to quickly be able to put up your gear and to tear it down. Every second counts when you have George Clooney on set, right? Another great fit for us that we have recently gone into is architectural lighting. This is more about lighting up the infrastructure and buildings. That can, for example, be bridges but also historical buildings. Usually here, the distances between the lighting points are long, and it's very complicated to pull cables, and that makes architectural lighting a good fit for us. We are also targeting the general outdoor lighting. This can, for example, be football fields and parks.
What is interesting with the case of football field is actually in Sweden, it's regulated what intensity you need to have on the field itself when you play games all the way down to Division Four. When you switch the intensity of the light from, let's say, 400- 200 lux on the plan, then you actually save 50% in cost. I should say the relation between intensity of the light and what it costs is more or less linear. You have a lot of money to save by controlling the lights in these applications. Then we have indoor lighting, and here retrofit installations is the perfect fit for us.
You want to switch out the old fixtures and put in new LEDs element, and you add control to those types of lights to save money and the energy as well. For the entertainment lighting, we are, as previously mentioned, a de facto standard. That means that we are growing when the business grows. The market trends here is a rising production quality. Here, we are working with very creative people. We are working with artists that wants to do and achieve more. That means that more fixtures are usually used at the productions. Also, the requirements on what we can handle within the fixtures are also increased. There are also increased demands on being able to monitor and control and read out status from the fixtures, which puts demands on being able to put on a huge network of every fixture in that installation.
We also see that year after year, the size of live productions are increasing. One example of that is the New Year's celebration at the London Eye. Here, we have provided one of our end user products on each of the moving pods. We have deployed the transmitter that is actually on the opposite side of the Thames. This means that pulling a cable here is more or less impossible and that you should also provide a very reliable solution because the timing needs to be there. At midnight, when the clock rings, everything needs to turn on at the same time. Cable was really not an option here. We were able to provide a wireless solution.
For the entertainment business, we are present more or less globally, but the majority of our users are located in North America, Europe, and in Asia. The distribution is driven by, in North America and Europe, high concentration of large-scale concerts, broadcast, and also premium venues, driving a high demand of advanced lighting control systems. However, Asia is an interesting upcoming market with high growth potential, and especially China. The market there is huge. But the wireless adoption is still very, very low. Most domestic brands, they rely on low-cost solutions with limited performance and capacity, or they just lack any wireless solutions in their product portfolio. What is very interesting here also is that most large-scale production are funded by the state.
To position ourselves into these opportunities, we have established a local presence in China, both on the sales side, but also on the engineering side. This allows us to work closely with the lighting designers and to enable to engage in relevant tenders and also to provide strong support for manufacturers seeking for an ultra-reliable wireless solution. We also want to continue drive the wireless agenda. As the demands are constantly increasing, we need to make sure that we stay on top to meet those requirements. We are constantly looking into how we can develop our platform and to make it more powerful while ensuring that we stay true to our core, which is delivering reliability. On the general lighting side, meaning the architectural, the outdoor, and the indoor lighting, the market drivers are quite different.
Here, we are more looking into drivers that are coming from regulations. 40% of all of the energy consumed within Europe is actually coming from buildings, and lighting accounts for a large and meaningful part of that. If you switch out your old fixtures in a building to an LED element, and then you add control on top of that, you can save up to 90%, which is quite powerful when it comes to keeping your cost and energy consumption down. In terms of regulations, we're looking at the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive within the EU. This directive clearly states that all inefficient buildings should be renovated. This is also strengthened by the German Building Energy Act, which requires larger buildings to implement the building automation system. We also have the ban on fluorescent lighting.
That ban went live 2023, but the shift is still ongoing. Just looking into Germany again, that transition is still very, very low. Only 20% has been moved over to LEDs in terms of the lighting. We have similar drivers here as we have for the entertainment business. We want to make people feel good and to appreciate the surroundings. Enhancing architecture and the parks and facades around you is really important for the general lighting business as well. Many of you have probably been in Helsingborg. Maybe some of you have also been at the bus terminal or the train station. Helsingborg is one of those municipalities in Sweden that now undergoes a huge renovation of all public lighting. 33,000 fixtures should be switched to LED elements with added lighting control for each fixture in the municipality.
Here, LumenRadio provided this little device into all the fixtures at the bus terminal. By taking out the old fixtures, adding new ones with LED, including our devices, they could save up to 86% in energy per year. What was also a very big benefit here is that the downtime of the bus terminal was minimal. They were able to close one section at a time, enabling everyone to travel and pass through the bus terminal even though the renovation was ongoing. They also calculated 40% in saving when going for our devices compared to a wired option. For the general lighting business, we are targeting Europe at the moment. Here, the market drivers are clearly triggered by the EU's aggressive carbon reduction targets.
This in combination with us already having established a good sales channel and distribution channel here makes it a good fit for us. We have already talked about the need of lighting control as a driver for our general lighting market. A large part of this is built around the protocol DALI. DALI is the standard for how lighting within the general lighting is talking to each other. There are millions of devices out there speaking this language. What we want to do is to make every one of those being able to communicate. We are not changing the protocol in any way, but we enable it to speak wirelessly. What we like to say is that we replace the cable with a wireless option. We also see that the DALI standard is increasing regionally.
We see increases in North America and Asia, which is of course very interesting for us to follow. What we can conclude from this is whenever DALI lighting control is used and cabling becomes challenging, our wireless technology becomes directly relevant. A project that has utilized our devices is the Akershus Fortress in Oslo. This was established 750 years ago, so the walls of this building is quite impressive in depth. That makes it hard to drill. It makes it hard to pull any cables in this environment. But the lighting designer and the system integrator anyway wanted to have lighting control. What they did here was once again integrate our technology and our product, one of them into every fixture, and they could ensure to preserve the architecture.
They didn't need to drill, they didn't need to pull any extra cables, so everything stayed the same apart from the newly added lighting control. It was also quite simple in terms of integration. They didn't need to learn any new languages or any tough programming protocols. The customer here was also very surprised and impressed by the wireless range. Up next, I would like to show you another product where our technology has been used. Here, timing and precision was the most important parameters for the customer. Here instead, the radio module was integrated into the fixtures. So as you see, the lights are actually following the vehicle, and that was exactly what the lighting designer wanted to achieve. In order to do that, we had to promise perfect synchronization and very low latency.
This is one of the more entertainment lighting products where our technology has been used. This is a customer in U.S. that has integrated a radio chip directly into the fixtures. As they did that, the installation cost was heavily decreased. Pulling cables in an environment like this for a fixture at different heights was definitely more costly than using a fixture that already had the OEM module integrated. As I mentioned, precise timing and synchronization what we could deliver and no one else could. Once again, range being superior is one of the most important selling point for us here. To close, I want to highlight one of our most powerful advantages, our role as an OEM partner to many of the world's leading brands in entertainment lighting.
In a typical setup, you start with a control system. This is where you program and manage all your lighting cues. The program is then transmitted out in the system using either our transmitters or our OEM customers transmitted based on our technology. The signal is then transmitted further out in the network to all the fixtures on set that you want to transmit to. Here is when it becomes truly powerful. As long as our technology is integrated on both ends, customers are no longer dependent on one single vendor. Instead, they can choose freely from over a hundred or even thousand fixtures out there that have designed our technology into it. What this create is not only a product but an ecosystem. An ecosystem where we sit in the core, enabling interoperability, driving standards, and scaling through our partners. That is the power of LumenRadio.
That being said, I would like to say thank you and welcome back, Rob.
Thank you. Thank you, Mikaela. That was excellent. A great example we saw here, where we see our transmitter here sending a signal to these fixtures or lighting. How would you describe our value chain in this entertainment lighting industry?
Typically we sell the OEM module to fixture manufacturer, and the fixture manufacturer itself then sell the devices to a rental house. That is the most typical situation for film and TV, I should say.
How does it look for general lighting? Is it the same or different in any way?
We go through distributors, and distributors are then selling to system integrators. The system integrators themselves, they sometimes just install the wireless things, but many times they do all the programming, the installation, and yeah, more or less everything.
Okay. Just before we take a break here, just one last question. Something we often get asked is why do we need wireless if lighting needs an electricity cable anyway?
That's a good question. For film and TV, I should say a power cable is not necessarily needed. Many devices for film and TV and also for theaters, they are battery-powered. When you have battery-powered devices, you for sure don't have a cable. That is the perfect case, I would say. For retrofit installations, there is not necessarily a communication cable connected to the light already. Power cable, yes, but not necessarily a communication cable. It's exactly that cable that we can replace with our technology.
Okay. Mikaela Pettersson, thank you very much. We will return and be online again at 2:15 P.M., so we will see you shortly. Thank you. Welcome back everyone here in Stockholm and everyone who's joining us online. I would now like to welcome to the stage Product Development Manager for Building Automation, Carl Wäppling.
Thank you so much, Rob, and welcome back everybody from the break. I hope you got a lot of leg stretch and some more energy into your bodies. The next half hour, I will spend explaining a bit more about our business area, building automation. The more younger business area compared to the lighting side. I want to go back to the slide Hans showed so you get a bit more understanding what is the business area about. We have the segment called smart metering, which consists of our acquisition from Radiocrafts that do smart metering both in utility and sub-metering space. We have building controls, a new area with the Modbus and BACnet products that goes into buildings and controlling buildings.
Finally, we also have industrial automation, where you could see that you have a good technology fit with different type of applications all across a vast type of applications in the industry. I will start with explaining a bit what is this, just like Mikaela did on the lighting side, so we get a better understanding what is these type of segments, how is the business logic, and what does it work. Smart metering is this. It's typically a utility meter in a city or a region that is sending a bill to a consumer that consumes water, gas, or electricity. This usually consists of a few large OEMs that creates the meters and the gateways, and then it's a meter rollout in that city or that country, and to make sure that you get all the values in, and then you send the bill to a consumer.
On the other side of the bill is what we call sub-metering. That's when you want to have precise measurements on the other side to actually see where does my consumption go? Is there this part of the building or this machine, this industry, and so on and so on. That's more the logic of the other part. These two have, you know, different business logics because utility metering, you have a meter rollout, you do the rollout, and then you have replacement unit as you go. While sub-metering is a continuously growing area where you see more and more from industrial side moving into the buildings, where building owners now want to have a tighter control of where, the consumption is happening. For example, previously, a building owner could split up the electricity bill on the different tenants.
10% to you, 5% to you, but it was not reflecting the actual consumption. This is where sub-metering grows in, where you actually want to bill the exact amount from the building owner towards the tenant, so to say. Industrial automation, however, is a very diverse area with a lot of different applications. One area is, for example, factory automation or condition monitoring. It happens, I used to be a customer of LumenRadio, buying the software from LumenRadio's wireless technology into vibration sensors for condition monitoring. That's one type of application that buys our software or radio modules and do their thing, so to say. Another area could, of course, be defense with a vast type of application areas.
A final area could be renewable energy, where you have solar trackers that tilts depending on where the sun is, so to say. We have a very diverse area with a lot of different application areas where we have a strong technology fit. The focus here is on building controls, and controls is the key word here. We are controlling something in a building. On the left-hand side, you see an air handling unit on a rooftop. That air handling unit takes fresh air on the outside and forces into a building to get fresh air in that building space. On the other side of that pipe is a room controller where you as a user say, "This is the temperature I want in this room," and that's how you then actuate through the building.
I want to come back to the picture that Hans showed, the ecosystem, because a lot of devices in the building already speak Modbus or BACnet today. Modbus has been around since the seventies. I like to take the example of a hotel because I think most of you have been in a hotel room. Most of you have set a desired temperature, and that's what you do with the room controller. That room controller then sends that signal to what we call an actuator that makes sure that the ventilation system actually sends that fresh air to the room. Or in the winter here in Sweden, you want to turn up the heat with the radiator, then you could use a zone controller to actuate that radiator.
Then of course you need outside temperature and inside temperature with the sensors to make sure that you actually fulfill the requirement over time. All of this comes together in what we call a Modbus or a BACnet ecosystem, where a system integrator designs an entire system for a building, and this is how the building controls logic is. Where does wireless fit in here? I mean, we see in retrofit installations it is very, very hard to pull cables. That's what we've talked about also on the lighting side. The same logic goes for the building control side, where you see huge benefits in the time reduction to not having to pull the cables as well as the cost of the electrician doing this.
We have other market drivers which I now will talk about, and the market drivers are both for smart metering and the building control segment. As a whole, building automation, what is the market drivers and the logic behind what's going on right now? I've represented a house with an energy class, and that's because the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive, as Mikaela mentioned, is really landmark legislation in terms of energy efficiency. As Mikaela said, 40% of the energy in Europe is consumed by buildings, and of that, the largest chunk of the building energy consumption is HVAC, which stands for heating, ventilation, and air conditioning.
To heat and cool buildings is what takes most part of the energy, and that's really, you know, on a focal point now with this legislation where one out of every four buildings in Europe needs to be renovated to come at a higher energy class level. Yes, one out of every four buildings needs a renovation in the next six-seven years. That is a massive renovation wave that are awaiting Europe. Of course, we are in an energy crisis. It started already 2022, and right now with the situation in Middle East, it's just escalating. That means more and more building owners also see the value without legislation to do the energy renovation.
Because you save a lot of energy by doing a demand controlled system where you don't have all on or all off, but you can dynamically set whatever temperature needed for that moment in time, especially for commercial buildings. This is where the logic for both smart metering and building controls come in because you actually need to validate that you do the savings. In the U.S., for example, where you also have similar type of legislation, it is important that you can prove that you have actually done energy renovation. That's where sub-metering in the U.S. comes in, where you actually have to verify that you did the saving you wanted the grant for, so to say. Same is in Europe, where there are still companies that need to report with Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive.
They need to have the sub-meters, but of course, there's also those that needs to control the energy efficiency in a building, so to say. The final symbol is an electrician, and that represents the market driver of fewer and future young people wants to be an electrician. As large parts of the electrician population retires now, we see a lack of electricians. It's hard to get hold of one, especially in dense urban areas in high-rise cities. The price of an electrician on Manhattan is actually skyrocketing. It's very, very hard to get hold of electricians to get your job done, which means if you have solutions that can reduce the time an electrician spend on a project by 90%, that becomes very, very attractive, and that's exactly where wireless comes in. As you have noticed, I've mentioned North America and Europe.
This is where our focus have been, building out the sales force the past couple of years, where we also have built out our channel partners for our end user products, as well as sales force working with OEMs in these two regions. That's where, 'cause this is where we see the strongest demand for having a dynamic building control. Of course also the measuring with smart meters. That was a bit of an overview of what we do in the area and how it works. Now, I want you all to take a step back and think about the city of Paris. The city of Paris have been built out through centuries, hundreds of years. The buildings look all different. They have different type of structures, different type of material. Some are very new, some are very old, some needs to be preserved.
The city of Paris still have a very important mission. They need to supply fresh water to every single house in the city of Paris. This is where Radiocrafts's sub-gigahertz radio module comes in, and they sit in one out of every two water meters in Paris, making sure that the city of Paris can bill whatever consumption each single consumer have. We're very proud of that meter rollout, and right now the current meter rollout in focus is the electricity meter rollout in Germany, where we are a part in the smart meter gateway part of that rollout. That will be ongoing until 2030, roughly. Then of course you have replacement units after that, so to say. We want to focus on the one that is continuously growing instead of a specific rollout.
Of course, when there's a newer rollout, we're there, we're helping the OEMs to bid on those. But we want a more, you know, continuously stable business like the sub-metering business. Here, I've already mentioned a bit on the market drivers here, but I think cannot emphasize it enough that on a utility meter side, you maybe have one meter for one specific household. But in a high-rise residential space, you need one in every apartment to have the sub-metering being split up, depending on which part of the bill it is. It's really about being more precise in the control and making sure that you have whatever needs to get the monitor you want.
Another part which hasn't really been mentioned before is that it's a requirement to have sub-metering when you're participating in the electricity grid frequency response. If your building's ventilation system should help offload the grid, you need a very precise sub-metering to prove that you're offloading the grid with the electricity you're no longer consuming. That's, of course, also a trend, which is why we have put this as a focus area for our sales resources within the sub-metering space. With Radiocrafts, we have radio modules on sub-gigahertz, and that technology is especially good for these type of meters because they are spread across the building in a very scattered manner, and usually they are in underground, and it's very harsh environments that it's hard for most radio signals to come through.
Radiocrafts' sub-gigahertz technology is one that power through, and they've been in the business for over 20 years, so they have a very strong, good reputation within the metering space. We talked about Paris and Europe. Now I want to take you across the pond to New York and Manhattan. We are on Lower West Side. You've seen this picture a couple of times. This building is in a very trendy neighborhood, and the commercial real estate space here is fierce. You need to have the highest of highest standards for these buildings to being the one winning the contract for the coolest companies that want to rent space here, the coolest restaurants, the best gyms. All of them fight for having the best customers inside the building here. This building was not designed for that.
This building was designed as a warehouse over 100 years ago. The walls are extremely thick brick walls, over one meter thick, and it's 20 stories high, and the building management system is in the basement. The system integrator that works in this building, they've tested many wireless technologies that hasn't worked. They came to us and said, "If your wireless work here, it will work anywhere." That was for us the starting ground of wireless BACnet in the U.S., where we have seen a lot of good traction and where we have proven that our patented wireless technology really can deliver when it matters and when you need to control a building, not only monitor a building. One big area of controlling buildings, which historically have been very, locally controlled, is the air handling units on rooftops.
Historically, they've been just, you know, piping all the air down with no control of how much it is. Of course, now when you want to become more energy efficient, this is where it starts. A commercial building in the U.S. typically have 10-20 rooftop units per roof, and all of them have been isolated. Pulling wires between these, air handling units is extremely difficult because if you lay a cable on the roof, that is susceptible for weather and wind and actually even birds eating the cable. If the one cable goes down, all of the air handling units go down. It's a massive pain for the system integrators that need to go out on a job and handle that specific building. As you see on the right-hand side, you even see barbed wire.
That's because this is a prison, and a prison with 10 different buildings have inherently a very hard time connecting all of these buildings into one system if you want to pull cables. 'Cause you cannot really shut down the prison. That would be very, very hard. Having this flexible installation where you get no tenant disruption, as I call it, where you can actually continue having the operations within the building while you're doing the renovation, is a huge, huge benefit. On the left-hand side, it's closer to home. It's Gothenburg, and this is our residential air handling unit. The logic for air handling units on the roof is both in the U.S. and in Europe, both in commercial and residential spaces. The beauty of it that most of them speak Modbus or BACnet already.
That's great for our type of retrofit solution when you do the initial rollout. Then, of course, we are trusting our OEMs to integrate the radio module as the reputation in the business grows. Finally, as my final example from the building control space, I want to go very close to home. Now we're in the courthouse of Gothenburg, very close to our head office, and I should not do the talking here. I want our customer to do the talking.
Hi, my name is Daniel Henemyr, and I work for Vasakronan, which owns and manages the courthouse here in Gothenburg. This project was initiated by the tenant in the building who contacted us about experiencing drafts and high air flows in their offices. The indoor climate was designed for full occupancy, even evenings and weekends when the building was empty. Then we decided on a demand-controlled ventilation solution. This way, we could improve the indoor climate, control the air flow, and optimize energy consumption. Hi, my name is Mattias, I come from Ventab Styr. The control cabinet at the courthouse is located far down in the basement, and to avoid pulling cables through several floors and disturbing the operations, we chose to replace the Modbus cable with wireless technology from LumenRadio.
Hey, jag heter Lars. Jag jobbar på LumenRadio i Göteborg. Detta var Ventabs första projekt med LumenRadios W- Modbus-lösning. Jag hjälpte dem i projekteringsfasen att få utplacerat repeaters på rätt ställe för att säkerställa en driftsäker och snabb installation. Till installationen använder vi en W- Modbus i styrcentralen i källaren. Sen på första våning har vi placerat ut two repeaters till att stärka signalet till de övre våningar. Där vi har four W- Modbus i varje huskropp som kommunicerar direkt med det nyinstallerade ventilationsspjäll.
För oss på Vasakronan så är det viktigt att hyresgästen upplever ett bra inomhusklimat och trivs i sina lokaler. Genom att välja trådlöst så förenklade vi projektet avsevärt. Både genom att det blir enklare att budgetera för oss. Vi vet vad kostnaden blir. Det blir också billigare för oss. Slipper anlita elektriker för att dra kabel runt om i huset.
Vi fick en kostnadseffektiv anläggning som också är pålitlig.
Tack vare att det är trådlöst så kunde vi göra detta utan att störa i verksamheten.
Sammanfattningsvis så slapp vi all trassel med kabel. Installationen gick snabbt och smidigt. Jag är imponerad av produkterna och jag ser verkligen att vi kommer använda trådlös teknik i många kommande projekt.
I think this is a great testimony of what we are delivering to the market and how we enable users to make an energy-efficient transition. The key word for us is that we are enabling others to do this. As you saw in the movie, in Tingsrätten they didn't have devices with our radio modules inside, so they used retrofit products. Of course, that was cost-efficient compared to running cables. We want to go further and do like we have done in the entertainment lighting side. As Mikaela said, when you have all lighting fixtures, the radio module integrated, the person doing the job have then the option to select whatever product they like. Today, we are delivering our retrofit products via channel partners, as we have explained before.
Those channel partners deliver to system integrators that have a specified project at hand, typically a specified Modbus or BACnet. Of course, we can deliver that type of retrofit products to any of those Modbus or BACnet devices. The real power comes when you integrate the radio module. We press released a couple of weeks ago where the actuator got the radio module inside, which means we have now a complete OEM ecosystem for all the indoor devices you need to make a completely wireless installation for, let's say, a hotel or a municipality school or an administrative building or the courthouse as shown below. We're very excited about more and more OEM partners joining the Modbus and BACnet ecosystems and providing their customers with the right tools to do their type of integrations.
That was a brief presentation of the business area building automation, where we have the segments smart metering that delivers radio modules to utility meters and sub-meters and gateways collecting data from these devices. We have the industrial automation segment with a vast and diverse type of application area. We have building controls where we're actuating and realizing the power of energy-efficient buildings. We really try to enable the energy transition as fast as we can, helping those few installers that are still out there. Thank you.
Carl, thank you so much. That was great. Great presentation. I have a couple of questions.
Yep.
for you if you don't mind. You spoke a lot about original equipment manufacturers or OEMs. Can you just explain a little more why they're so important to building automation?
Thank you so much, Rob, for that. I think I will use this studio. Those of you online, I'm sorry you don't see this, but basically here you see nine actuators giving the fresh air to the audience here and the studio here. Of course, these were designed before the actuator module radio integration, but all of these could have been done wirelessly. I think for us, why the OEMs are so important is because they are already in this space. They are already delivering a lot of devices that speaks Modbus and BACnet. That's why they are the vessel of creating a wireless ecosystem within building automation.
Good answer. Thank you very much. Just one more before we move on.
Yep.
You gave us the example of hotels and how retrofitting with wireless really saves, you know, a lot for them in terms of downtime. Are there other use cases where wireless could be applied and customers could benefit in this way?
Awesome. Thank you for that question. I think what I didn't mention about the hotel case is actually we have system integrators that is not allowed to shut down a single hotel room. They're only allowed to do the energy upgrade while the cleaning staff is at work, which means it takes forever for them to make an entire hotel, but the hotel owner and the hotel operator get zero downtime, and they can rent out all the rooms throughout the entire energy renovation project. Taking on that, think about the courthouse in Gothenburg. They cannot shut down the courthouse. Same with the prison I showed you in the southeast of the U.S. They cannot shut down the prison.
There's very many buildings where you have a high demand on uptime for that specific building, and that's where I see a huge potential for our type of wireless technology.
Okay, that's great. Carl, thank you very much.
Thank you.
I'd like to welcome our CEO, Hans Larsson, back to the stage, and he will give us a short wrap-up for the day.
Thank you very much. You still look awake. I'll see if I can do this wrap-up in an energetic and good way to send you off with a good impression. I hope you have a better picture now and we have an ambition to be a market leader in high-quality wireless technology solutions that solve real problems and create added value for our customers. I really hope you have an impression from these business areas where we have the opportunities. To do this, our most important asset is actually our people. We didn't talk a lot about our people. We talked about tech and products and customers. We said that we have 75 people in our company. It's a diverse group. We have many nationalities.
If we look at what they all do every day, we have approximately one-third of our staff in technology and development, so skilled engineers who work hard on the difficult stuff to really develop our offering. We have about one-third in sales and marketing. We have entered a lot of new verticals the last couple of years, so we need to invest quite a lot in sales and marketing to reach out and build the sales channels. Of course, we have one-third in supply, HR, finance, admin, everything which is needed to make a company tick. We have a lot on the agenda, and we are a fairly small company, so it's imperative for us to be an attractive employer who can recruit the best talent so we have the best team.
I think we are well-situated. We have a good team on board, they know what to do. We also like to talk about how we do things. We have our core values. It's an acronym called RISE, R stands for reliability. Here, this is super important for us. I mean, we have talked a lot about the reliable connectivity, but we need a lot of reliability in how we come through on our customer commitments. We have so many customers who rely that our technology works every time, in sync, deliver high performance. We think reliability is super important for what we do and how we do it. I in RISE stands for innovation. We really foster, let's say, an environment of curiosity. Question what we are doing. Can we do it better?
Can we do it differently? Innovation is super important for us, not only in technology but how we work, how we reach out, and when we go out with new offerings, how do we actually reinvent ourselves so we can reach through to the end customers, and they can understand how we can help them change the world when it comes to energy-efficient buildings, fantastic lighting sceneries, and whatever we do. S, simplicity. We do a lot of difficult stuff. We have some complex technology, but we need to explain that in a very easy way. We have to make it easy and simple for our OEM customers to integrate our technology. If we can really live by simplicity, we will add a lot more OEM customers and become a lot stronger on the market. Simplicity is important.
The last letter in RISE stands for energy, so E for energy. We like to work at a high pace. We take on our challenges with passion and we always foster a can-do attitude. It's okay to do a mistake, but then we rectify it, and we move on with high energy and passion. With that said, if we look at how we are going to deliver on our growth strategy and what we actually do. You have heard a lot. I'll try to wrap it all together. This slide shows some of these fantastic cases where we show how we have installed our technology. We have, during the last couple of years, launched quite a lot of new products. I mean, you hear about Modbus, BACnet, DALI.
Some of you know what that is. These are communication protocols which are widely used already. Some of them, like BACnet, Modbus, we said was from the 1970s. These are not new. What is new is that we provide a fully transparent cable replacement for these protocols. This gives us the edge, especially when we come into renovation, retrofit, where cabling is difficult, expensive. We are transparent. We are not introducing a new technology. You need no new knowledge. If you know cable Modbus, you can work with our wireless Modbus. It's transparent. I think that's important to understand. All of these new, let's say, solutions have been launched in the last three-four years. Here we are still really working hard on reach out.
We need to get the system integrators. We have talked about system integrators many times here. These are electricians or engineering companies who design the system they specify. They look at a building like this. If this is going to be renovated, someone will design and specify whether this will be cabled, wireless, or a mix of it. Because it can also be a mix. Our product interacts extremely well with the wired solutions which might be already in place. Here we have a lot of growth opportunities, but we also have a lot of work investing in getting known, getting accepted, and not only do the most difficult projects because those fit us really well, but we also want to be more part of the normal projects.
Another area where we think we have a good opportunity to grow is in the smart metering. With Radiocrafts we acquired this technology, the sub-gigahertz technology, and we also acquired quite a strong brand name in the space. We are also part in standardization committees when it comes to M-Bus and this kind of metering and communication standards. We are well-known there, especially in Europe, but we are not so strong in the sub-metering side, which as you have heard now is a very interesting area where you really look inside the building, inside an industry where the consumption is actually being used.
That's where we think we have quite a good opportunity to get our technology in, also into sub-meters, sub-meter gateways and also connect and actually make existing meters communicate wirelessly. Our focus here will be on, let's say, high-value meters and smart meter gateways. This is a business where, I mean, every one of you who lives in a flat or a house, you have an electricity meter. That's a very cheap product. We will never be in that one. We need to work with the high-value meters, smart meter gateways, and these type of products where it makes sense to buy a radio module for us, integrate it, and have a short time to market for a radio-certified product.
Within this area, we invested about a year ago in sales resources, so we have now sales resources dedicated to this, both in Europe and the U.S., so we should start seeing some results from that. Entertainment lighting, I think everyone understands this is the biggest chunk of our business. It's more than 50% of our business, which is generated from entertainment lighting. Here we grow with our customers. I mean, we have a good penetration, but there is still a lot of installations where wireless could be a very good option for cables, and we also have our initiatives in China. Mikaela mentioned China. I'd like to talk a little bit more to what we actually do there.
A lot of production is already in China, so our European and U.S. customers, they produce their fixtures. A fixture is actually a lamp. We talk fixtures because that's the language which is used in the business, but it's a lamp. It can be a fixed lamp. It can be a moving head. It can be any kind of lamp which is used in stage, like, or like here. A lot is produced in China, but these Chinese OEMs who produce for the Western brands, they typically often have their local brands as well. This is a kind of a tier two market where wireless is not widely accepted yet. It's a lot of cables and other standards. We work quite hard on penetrating the tier two market in China.
These are fixtures which are produced in China, sold in China, and used in China. That's something where we think we can, which can help us outgrow, let's say, the growth of this market. The other part is, of course, Chinese producers who want to export. If you want to export and these fixtures will be used worldwide, it has to have CRMX, our brand name for the wireless DMX. Otherwise, you won't sell. It's kind of a given. Even though we are already, you know, we have really, you know, we penetrated this market and we are a de facto standard, there is still growth opportunities in this area. Finally, I want to say a few things about architectural lighting. You saw some cool examples before as well.
This is an area which uses the same technology as entertainment lighting. It's the DMX. We do the wireless DMX. Often long distances. It's retrofit of old lighting systems where you upgrade to LED. This is a nice spot for us where we have not had, let's say, a lot of focus on in the past. We have products there, but you know, you can't do everything at once. Here we have untapped potential, which we think we can drill into more. These are kind of the areas where we think we can grow, and it's basically everything we do, we think we can grow. What is important for us now is we focus on these areas because we have, over the last few years, launched a lot of new products.
We have tried a lot of new things, and now we feel that we are onto something here. If we double down on these areas, we should be able to deliver on our growth targets. With that said, I'm at my last slide. I hope you all have a better picture of where we are today. We haven't been doing this, as I said in the beginning, since the IPO in 2022. We feel quite confident about the future and we think it's wireless, and we will deliver wireless without worries. Thank you.
Thanks. We are now going to open up the floor for some questions. I'd like to welcome all of the presenters back onto stage. If anyone has a question out in the audience, please raise your hand and someone will come around with a microphone.
Thanks. Erik Larsson from SEB. I have three, four questions. Let's see. On your revenue target, how much of that is from the existing business, existing design wins, and how much does that rely on, you know, future customers or design wins?
I don't think we can go into details on exactly how it comes, but let's put it like this. In the entertainment lighting side, which is more than half of our business, we believe that that market is actually growing like high single digits, and we believe we can outgrow it by market penetration. There we are on kind of an average growth rate we need to reach our target. Then on the new businesses, when we start to add OEM customers into Modbus, BACnet, DALI ecosystems, we should see exponential growth in those areas. Important to add new customers and of course important that we get the traction with this building of the ecosystem, and that takes a bit of time.
That's also why we think it's good to have a target revenue in 2030 rather than a fixed number per year, because we are convinced we can reach there, but it won't be necessarily a straight line.
Okay. Then I understood you here in the end that, you know, you will focus on your sort of key verticals, not really enter new ones. Could we get a sense of the mix maybe between lighting and building in 2030, you know, roughly maybe?
I mean, we love a healthy competition, so we have that competition inside the company. I hope building automation takes it on and will beat lighting, but let's see. I think we have if we succeed with these ecosystems, we should be able to beat lighting with the building automation. There's a lot of power in the lighting. I mean. Let's see.
Okay, good. I had a final question for Carl, because, you know, we heard at your presentation here that I guess the use cases and the value proposition is clear, but it is a smaller share today of Lumen. What is the main bottleneck in your eyes, sort of to grow the business really?
Thank you for the question. I tried to emphasize the meaning of OEMs, and now you, Hans, also emphasized it, that we see hopefully the exponential growth as more OEMs integrate the radio modules. I think Modbus and BACnet is quite new products. Modbus launched 2021, while you know, the lighting business have been with the founding of the company. We are quite new, we're quite hungry, and I think that's where hopefully we will in the next coming years see the growth.
Okay, perfect. Thanks.
Another question here in the middle.
Thank you very much. I'm just wondering, has your product offering towards buildings been considered nice to have historically, but driven by EU packages and so what's been more of a need to have, product offering?
I guess you look at me.
Yeah.
I can continue.
Thank you.
I mean, I think wireless hasn't necessarily been that reliable in the past. If you think about the U.S. market, there was a wireless BACnet version with Zigbee, and a lot of system integrators burned themselves on wireless projects. There's a trust gap that we need to help the system integrators grow. You saw the example from New York, Manhattan, where they've tried wireless before. As they said, "If it worked here, it will work anywhere." That's what we're seeing now, gaining more trust in the market where they actually see that our patents create more reliable wireless technology.
Okay, nice. I guess a bit of a follow-up on that also, within the building, in Q4, you had a new product mix within the segment here. Could you talk a bit about this one perhaps?
Yeah, I think I can take that one. That was a small comment in the Q4, so thank you for reading carefully and seeing that. We have really very good old customers who have over the years spent a lot of money with us, but they have bought completely custom products. We kind of build their product for them. That customer is now, well, this has been planned for two, three years, obviously, because it is not something you do fast, but they are switching to buying our standard radio module. That is what is happening. Our scope of delivery to them goes down. We deliver a standard radio module, which is what we want to do.
I mean, we want to standardize, you know, get that straight in our supply chain. It makes life easier for us. What we expect here is, of course, we lose some top line on this, but we should have a similar gross profit in the business going forward. I think it's important to emphasize this is still a customer of ours, and they look long-term at this. This is also a change they want to do, and we want to do it because it's strategically right. We have to live with a little bit tougher comparison numbers this year, and then we'll be through it.
Yes. This change for this fully implemented in every month of Q4, or was it more towards the end?
It's a difficult question to answer.
Yes.
It was not fully implemented in Q4.
Yes.
It had a significant impact on Q4 already.
Yes.
We can say that we will see the biggest impact in Q1 to Q3 this year, and we will try to address that in the quarterly report. That will be, let's say, clear to everyone what's happening.
Okay. Thank you.
Another question here.
Hi. Regarding Radiocrafts, in Q4, you reversed SEK 20 million regarding the earn-out to Radiocrafts. Could you provide some more info on what happened there? Were too high goals from the beginning or the market just underperforming?
Thank you. Sanna, will you take that now?
Yes. When we bought Radiocrafts, this earn-out was calculated in the purchase price, and it was also put in the balance sheet as an asset, in goodwill. At this point of time, the targets were really to pay it out, and actually it was divided in two different years, and the first year we paid out the first portion. The second part was a little bit tougher KPIs to reach. They didn't reach them, and obviously, if you don't reach your earn-out KPIs, you don't get it, and it was connected with the goodwill booking, so that's why we wrote it down also.
Thank you.
I have one more question behind you. Thanks.
Thank you. William from Redeye here. I just wonder on the M&A, which type of M&A targets are you looking for? Is it more like products or new geographical areas or something like that?
That's a good question. What we would like to find, I mean, this ideally, we like to find adjacent businesses which are close to what we do in building automation or lighting control, but also something which does not compete with our OEM customers. I think that's the challenge for us, why it's also hard because, you know, we have OEM customers doing all kind of lights, all kind of lighting controllers, all kind of building automation products. We really need to look at other wireless technologies which can be adjacent and add value. If I would dream it up, it would be something which fits perfectly into our sales channels or comes with well-developed sales channels where we can add our existing offering into those sales channels. That would be fantastic.
We're on lookout. This is a bit like trying to get married. You need to date a few girls and get to know each other, and then if it works out, we might get married.
I understand. Another one on the margin. I just wonder, within the segments, is there any mix effect between different products to look for on the gross margin?
Do you want to take that, Sanna, or?
Was the question if there is some?
In the segments, if you're looking at smart lighting, for example, between different products, categories, like entertainment lighting versus architectural or something like that.
We always go with the pricing that is suitable for the market. That is the starting point. Then we search for the customers and see how it works. Some products has from start a higher gross profit margin, but if the demand is lower, maybe we have to look if the price is wrong. Are we targeting wrong customer types? At the end, I mean, we try to have good margins in every category from start, and then the market actually decides how successful we are in that segment.
Thank you.
Another question here at the front.
Yeah. Thank you for a very good presentation. I'm new to the company, not knowing so much, but I'm just interested in, like, seems like you have a very unique solution, very good solution. Patents, how do you protect yourself? Like, how's the competition and so on? Can you elaborate a little bit about that?
I can take the patent side, and then we'll see if we talk competition somewhere else here. We have, I mean, the first innovation, this Cognitive Coexistence I talked about, that is patented. We have over the years kept doing, let's say, new patents building on the old, technology. Because the first patent is just a few years left, but because we have built a patent portfolio, we believe that we are well-protected. You never know until you fight it, how much it's worth. By having patents and IP protection, you also protect yourself a bit from being attacked. I think we are okay on the IP protection front. Then of course, it's not that easy to copy.
patent is one thing, but what we do is not easy. On competition, maybe do you want to fill something in on the competitive landscape on lighting or building?
I can take that one.
Yeah.
Yeah. There are, of course, a lot of competitors for any type of wireless solution, but what makes us unique is the way that how we select what frequency to transmit on. That allows us to have a higher output power than many of our competitors, and that leads to us having longer range in many applications. That is kind of the core and the strength, not only how we are resilient to interference, but also giving us the ability to actually transmit over a longer distance.
I might want to add something to that which is related, maybe not direct answer, but what we do compared to many other companies is that we really work with well-established adopted communication standards. So DMX, DALI, Modbus, BACnet, you've heard it many times. These are used. I mean, they're very common. There are a lot of products already connected to DALI networks. The only difference we do is that we make it wireless. So if you can program a DALI lighting network in a building like this, it doesn't matter if you have cables or if you have our product, it's the same programming. So we really try to make that easy to replace cables in a building, in an industry, wherever we are.
That is a big difference to many of our competitors who actually try to launch proprietary networks, where you have to buy in, and then the products you buy, you have to buy all the products from the same company. They will only talk to each other. While our philosophy is that you should be able to buy a product from any supplier. Buy your favorite product. Hopefully, it has a built-in radio module from us from the start. If not, you can connect it to make it wireless, even if it's wired with one of our end-user devices. That's quite a big difference when you look at how we compete as well. Yeah. Thank you.
Are there any more questions from the floor? I do have one that's come in online, which I think either perhaps Carl could take this one. It's specifically asking about the sales cycle for a design win.
Yep.
They're wondering how long it goes from sort of the integration process to the time it takes for the device to come to the market.
Thank you so much for the question online. I really like this question because I think this is also a shift which, when I was a customer of LumenRadio, we bought the technology. That was a very long design cycle in that industrial space. What we changed with Modbus and BACnet with these radio modules is that your device already speaks Modbus and BACnet, and then you only need to do a small PCB redesign, and then suddenly your device goes wirelessly. The fastest from first sales meeting to product launch was 13 months, and the latest design that you saw just took, you know, a couple of days of engineering work. When you historically had months and years of engineering work, of designing and validating, pre-certified radio modules take those months and years down to days.
I think that's really the power of having these cable replacement radio modules that are pre-certified. Thank you for the question.
Okay. I think that's all the questions which brings us to the end of our Capital Markets Day for this time. I'd just like to thank all of the presenters who have come here today and given such great presentations. Thanks to all of you in the audience for your great questions. Thanks to everyone who's been online. Thanks for your time today, and it just remains for us to say goodbye from the team here at LumenRadio who deliver wireless without worries. We'll see you next time. Goodbye.