Welcome to the Presentation of our Full Year Results for 2023. I'm Ann-Sofi Jönsson, and I'm Head of Investor Relations and Risk Management at Munters. With me here today, I have our CEO, Klas Forsström, and our CFO, Katharina Fischer. For those of you who are viewing on the web, do feel free to enter your questions throughout the whole presentation, and we pick them up afterwards during the Q&A session. For those of you who are listening in on the conference call, we will open up for questions after the presentation. With that, I would like to hand over to you, Klas.
Thank you, Ann-Sofi, and once again, welcome and good morning to this Quarter Four and Full Year 2023 presentation. It has been a record year for Munters, the strongest year in our history, and we ended up the year with a solid finish, confirming that we are targeting the right growth and business drivers, such as battery, data center cooling, service, lean working principles, and digitalization, just to highlight a few. We, as many others, have become avid navigators in a world of geopolitical stress and challenges. We have a strong team, and I'm very confident that we will continue to navigate well. Through our strategic execution, we have created a strong platform.
We'll now continue to invest ahead of the curve, both in current drivers, but also in the next ones, such as volatile organic compounds for clean rooms and semiconductor industries, carbon capture, and software as a service, just to mention three of those. As most of you are aware of, this quarter, we released our preliminary result ahead of today, due to a ransomware attack at one of our hosting providers, Tietoevry. The reason for this was that we couldn't guarantee that our preliminary result for the quarter was fully remaining confidential. Nothing indicates that it has leaked, but better to be safe than sorry. Going into more detail on the quarter and the full year: a strengthened market position and a strong year result.
Stable long-term growth trends, good development on order intake, +82% organically in the quarter, driven mainly by DCT, but also good development in FoodTech. When it comes to net sales, +16%, it is the eighth consecutive quarter where we grow about 10%. Also, this has mainly been driven by DCT, but all other regions and business areas have supported in a good way. FoodTech, all regions contributed to the increase, AirTech being more flattish. Book to Bill at 1.5 for the quarter, and for the full year, 1.4. EBITA margin, 12.8%, and a 54% increase compared to the same quarter last year, driven by DCT, but also good efficiency improvements in all business areas. Also, what is pleasing, adjustments still kicking in. Americas, the main driver in growth.
Those of you that have followed us for many years now may remember where it was roughly one third, one third, one third. Now, a much larger exposure, a positive exposure to North America. Order intake representing 74, 74%, net sales around 60%, and the others, then, Europe, around the 20%, level, and APAC, quite below that. All in all, then, AirTech in Americas, a weaker development, very much driven by order pattern shift as order plays closer to delivery time. Components still showing good order intake growth. DCT, a very active market, a market that continues to drive forward. A combination here of large orders and smaller orders received from both co-locators and hyperscalers. And FoodTech, a continued good underlying market with a slight growth in climate solution, driven from swine and layer.
Digital solutions, stable development, and here we have to remember that we had some very large orders on comparable quarters then. Moving to Europe, summarize, a stable quarter, a stable market in AirTech, repeating the message that I started to send last quarter, orders being placed closer to the delivery time, but service continues to show good growth. DCT, I'm very pleased here. Good development, several small orders from co-locators, and we continue the journey, first double, and then double again. FoodTech, then, recovery in all segments, which is pleasing to see that what we have done and start a few years ago is now paying off. APAC, then, as I said, a couple of quarters, normally, China, sometimes it expands, and sometimes it contract. At current, China is contracting in the battery segment.
We have a solid order backlog, large orders supportive into 2025. As you know, order intake for months, there is, to some extent, fairly volatile. Some quarters very strong, other quarters a little bit weaker. All in all, here, I think the most important thing, that is, if you take a look upon the two at the bottom. Here, we have now, when it comes to, in this case, data center, orders that brings us into 2025, and actually, in some cases, stretches into 2026. Going back more granular to AirTech then. Order intake decreased with some 31%. If I exclude the larger battery orders then that we received in quarter four, still a small decrease of 8%. Not to repeat myself, but it's weak in the APAC, driven by China.
I see a two-sided coin in Europe and Americas. It is this shorter lead times, the smaller orders at current. On the other side, if I look one, two years ahead on what is boiling in the market, a lot of activity is going on there. Components, flat due to a weaker battery market in China, but also affected of some component replacement that is not kicking in at current. Service, growth in Americas, EMEA, somewhat offset in Americas and APAC. All in all then, I think it's a few highlights here. We see a lot of continued activity in the market. What is pleasing to see, that is service and components from an order intake point is still at a fairly impressive 40% level.
Here you have to remind yourself that in this quarter, we do not have any larger orders. When it comes to the margins, simply put, it is a change of business mix that is affecting margin, but still, we are above 14%, and keeping it up. What more to say about this? I think it is battery, strong growth in Americas, from net sales. It's very much a similar message as on order intake. Americas, fairly strong. Europe, okay to good, and Asia, read China, weaker. What is interesting to see here, now we have balanced it out also with India, and that gives us support for the future. I think this picture is somewhat interesting.
We have started to present this now since a couple of quarters, and you can see then the very light yellow then at the top, the larger battery orders that we communicate. When I look upon this, I see two pictures. We are lacking some larger orders, but we have a very stable, slightly increasing ordinary business, the business that is the pulse of Munters. Super pleasing. New products brought to the market are getting a lot of attractions and winning a lot of orders. For me, this is really something to be extremely proud of. How many products that is brought to the market can say, "We are delivering a 30-45 energy savings compared to comparable products?" How many products can state that they have a 40% smaller footprint versus industry standard?
And also, in combination with this, you can use different type of energy to drive it, so to speak. And on top of that, being modularized, so you can expand it and increase it. And just to give you a little bit of comparison, take a look on the small door that you can see there. That is, roughly, man height, i.e., around 180 meters then. So all in all, this is the size of a living room, that is being delivered. DCT, the driving order intake and business star at current. Interesting here, if I move to the right, that is, you have heard me talk about we have three transactional segments, and what I mean with transactional, that is paying directly on the products we are saying, selling.
Here you can see the co-locator is still the very large sector that is both supporting hyperscalers and other type of customers. But in this case, in this quarter, also some good direct orders from hyperscalers, moving it up to 22%. And all in all, the two largest larger orders that we communicated represented a SEK 2.2 billion order value. But beside that, very pleasing, also, quite of smaller to sub-large orders from different customer categories. And I would like to repeat something that I said earlier. I mean, it's also great to see that we are now starting really on the journey, double in Europe, and then later on, double again. Order backlog increased, and that is very pleasing. I will not repeat this.
I think most of you have seen it, but coming back to net sales increased with 81%, and we have a strong backlog kicking in for the coming year, coming years then. EBITA margin continues to move ahead. Here I would like to say that, I mean, do not expect that this will a never-ending upturning curve. We need to invest in this arena. We need to drive forward customer support, et cetera. But I'm very confident that we will continue to be in the range of 14%-15% EBITA. Also here, very encouraging to see the continued nice traction from customers on our new products being brought to the market. SyCool, you have heard me talk about SyCool for many quarters now. I talked about it's future-proofed.
It will both be for air shields-shield type of solutions and for liquid shield type of solutions. And now we have received the first order on liquid cooling using SyCool as the product. And this picture schematically just shows how it could be done. On the right side, looking in, you can see air-cooled, i.e., blowing air through the data center using the same type of rooftop retractors. And then on the left side, you see a similar solution, but in this case, then liquid-cooled solution, driving a liquid coolant into the data hall. SyCool works for both type of solutions. We are expanding. We are expanding our offer into data center, and I can confidently say that we are taking market share.
This is just one example of what we are bringing to the market. In this case, for hyperscalers, a modular shield wall, where we use water and as a cooling, and then this can be expanded in different versions, very much modularized, and pleasing to see that our offer has widened over the last couple of years. Those units that I talk about here, they will be delivered during 2025. Super pleasing to see that FoodTech now, the market on the right side, has started to show improvements also in the climate solution arena. Those of you have followed us, you are used to have more red arrows than green and gray arrows.
I think it's a little bit too early to say that all of them will kick in to become green in the future, but they are slowly but surely starting to move upwards. Digital solutions continue to develop very, very good, and the order backlog in FoodTech increased. Pleasing to see all regions contributed to significant margin improvements. We have been now fighting against the headwind for quite a few quarters, but now our efforts and the market is starting to turn in our way. Another very, very exciting product brought to the market. You have all heard about the different flus that is moving around in bird population.
Here, we have brought a product to the market that is both cleaning the air from potential dangerous pathogens, influenza bacteria, but then also on top of that, also handle ammonia, i.e., cleaning it out from that point of view as well. Something that we have developed together with a very important customers and has started to gain a lot of traction. Once again, innovation brought to the market, and in this case, very much so, supporting our purpose: for customer success and a healthier planet. Another area of great importance for us, that is our journey to increase the software as a service, ARR or deliveries. And as you can see now, once again, during quarter, delivering an impressive growth, in this case close to 70%.
Not to over repeat what I said about Europe and DCT, it is sort of the same mantra we have here. I mean, first, we drive it to double, and after that, we drive it to double it again. If you would go into the mid of 2022, Q1, Q2, I mean, we have made the first doubling. Coming back to the purpose of Munters, for customer success and a healthier planet. Talking about sustainability, what we bring to the customer when it comes to energy efficiency, when it comes to animal health, when it comes to efficient cooling. But if I turn it inside instead, and how do we work inside then? Really pleasing to see that recycling rates are moving up step by step.
Energy efficiency, i.e., how much energy are we then using per produced unit, is becoming lower and lower, and really encouraging when it comes to renewable electricity, now up at 80% of our energy being consumed. All this then supporting our net zero emission target for 2030. Health and safety. Safety is always at top of our mind, and I can proudly say that now we are one of the leaders in our industry when it comes to the zero accident journey forward, and at 1.2 then, when it comes to TRIR or lost time injury frequency. Diversity, this is an area where we cannot say that we are super proud. Here we need to step-by-step improve. Our target is to have 30% of our women in leading position by 2025.
It is a stretch to reach there, but step by step we are moving in that direction. With that, then, walkthrough on different aspects, I would like to hand it over to Katharina.
Of course. So as Klas mentioned, 2023 was a year of strong growth and improved results. I have now been with Munters for about five months, and I'm very impressed by the growth we have achieved, and how we have positioned ourselves for the future. If I reflect on the good earnings in the quarter, I am even more impressed by the focus we have had on continuous improvements, and also how we are able to manage the daily challenges, at the same time as we are really pressing on to deliver on our long-term agenda. I truly believe that Munters has a very agile operations with a strong business focus.
In the year DCT, they grow significantly then on order intake and net sales, and they managed to have a very high production utilization, and this is also, of course, due to that they delivered very well on the large orders. AirTech had a strong year with a mixed development in Q4, as Klas mentioned. Very encouraging to see that FoodTech continued to strengthen both digital solutions and climate solutions in the quarter. Our net income was lower in the fourth quarter. This was mainly due to an impairment of deferred tax assets of SEK 18 million on losses carry forward. Our full year net income increased 37%. Cash flow was managed well in all business areas, and we managed to decrease the leverage. So all in all, we really had a record 2023.
Looking at the margin development here, we improved the margin, as you can see, in the quarter, and the main factors affecting this was the strong volume increase, which was mainly driven by data center then. We also had net price increases, and here we saw a positive, continued positive improvement, and also FoodTech contributed well to this. All business areas delivered very well on the operational excellence, and even though we managed to increase the margin this much, we also continued to invest for the future in our manufacturing footprint, digitalization, and innovation. The cash flow improved from operating activities, and we also managed to reduce the working capital. So if you look to the right in the table, you see the different components of the Operating Working Capital.
Here you can see that we had a decrease in the advances from customers, and this is due to that we have not yet received the advances from the large orders that we took in Q4, and we have worked down the advances then on other orders. As we talked about last time, our cash flow will be a little bit volatile due to the higher share of the large orders. The investing activities was negative then, of course, and as you know, we in the quarter closed acquisition of Zeco, and that was partly financed by debt, and that is why the finance activities is contributing positively. In recent years, our investments in property, plant, and equipment, and intangibles has increased, but we have a flat development in as a percentage of sales.
Into 2024, we will continue to invest in upgrading our manufacturing footprint. The one project that we started in 2023 was to build a new facility in Amesbury, U.S., for AirTech. This project will continue into 2024 then, and we aim to be up and running then in the beginning of 2025. We will also upgrade our manufacturing facility in China. For data center, we will expand in Europe to support the European market, where we will introduce more products. I also want to point to the development of the Operating Working Capital. As you can see, it has increased as a percentage of sales, and this is, of course, driven by our strong growth. We will continue to work on reducing Operating Working Capital and improve the cash flow.
One of our areas, that we have prioritized for growth is M&A, and as you know, we have done several M&As during the past two years. This is one of my focus areas, where I, really work to ensure that we have both an efficient and good process for managing acquisitions and making acquisition, but then also have a strong way of ensuring the value creation from our acquisitions. And key in this is, of course, the integration process, and here we have a very well-structured process in the company, where we plan ahead even before we close the transaction. So we put together a strong integration plan, and once we close, we start to implement and follow up against that plan. And we also work in three dimensions then.
So one is, of course, to really deliver on the business case, the value creation, but we also work on people and culture and operational processes. We decreased the leverage ratio in the quarter, and that was mainly due to the improved earnings. Our net debt increased then, due to the acquisitions we have made during the year, which was partly financed by debt, and then we have a slight increase in lease, liabilities as well. And then we can also mention that the financial net is more negative in 2023 than due to higher interest rates and increased debts. So with that, I would like to hand it over to you, Klas.
Thank you, Katharina, and let me then summarize the quarter and the year before we move into Q&As then. Our financial targets, net sales, about 10% organically as a CAGR to reach on and above 14% of adjusted EBITA margin, and step-by-step establish ourself then in between 13%-12%, 12%-10% operating working capital divided by net sales. And how are we doing here? I mean, the 8th quarter in a row where we are on or about the 10% growth organically, and on top of that, as Katharina mentioned here, a couple of percent also boosting it with M&A then.
Adjusted EBITA margin, last quarter, we showed that we can reach, and we have that in reach, but here my view is very much, I mean, we take this step by step, and then it is about reaching it for the long term and make it sustainable. Operating working capital, we are in a growth mode now, but we are putting a lot of focus to move that gradually down to where we aim to have it then. If I look ahead, from my perspective, our achievements in last year has positioned us for a continued successful journey. If I try to summarize the recipe that we have worked with for several years now, we have identified the right growth areas, the right actions, and driving forces to achieve growth, profitable growth moving forward.
We have invested ahead of the curve, and as I said, thereby then, being able to capture the growth and drive profitability upwards. We are aiming to repeat this formula of success, continue to invest, both in current growth drivers, but then also in future growth drivers, in order to drive innovation to the market, customer success to the market, and continuous improvements when we operate moving forward. So with that, I would like to welcome Ann-Sofi back on stage, and we will open up for Q&As.
Thank you, Klas. So, we will open up for Q&As on the conference call, but I would like to ask those who are on the call and want to place questions to limit yourself to two questions, and if you still have questions after that, please do queue up again. So with that, please.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial five # on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial six # on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Adela Dashian from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Two questions from me. The first one relates to the price increases and the positive contribution that you saw from that during the quarter. Should we expect additional price increases to be made in 2024? And how accepting are your customers in the current environment of those, if so?
Thank you. As we said, we saw a continued good development on the price development. On average, around five percent plus in the quarter. That is very much in balance on how we saw the full year. So with that in mind, without giving any sort of future projections, I don't currently see much large resistance when it comes to price as such, with the exception, as I think I've said earlier, in the area of equipment in FoodTech, we increased the prices very substantially a year, a year and a half ago. So there you can say we are seeing more resistance. On the positive notes, in FoodTech then, when it comes to software, we see very much that the market is willing to accept continued significant price increases.
Great.
Okay.
And then just a second question. I noticed that the order intake from hyperscalers increased during the quarter. Is there any margin variation between hyperscalers and co-locators? I think you previously mentioned that co-locators are typically more, they tend to agree more with the sustainability angle. So yeah, any price or margin variation there would be great to know of. Thanks.
I mean, our ambition, independent of the area, that is always to do a pre-calc that will position ourselves in the range or above the 14% that we have as a target. Then, I mean, you can drive that in two ways. I mean, you can drive it with high, well-accepted prices in the marketplace or efficiency within your factories. And let's say like this, if I take a look upon the product that we now have released to some hyperscalers with a lot of praise from them, we have worked significantly in how we produce and how we manufacture those.
Okay.
Does that mean no, we shouldn't expect margin variations?
I mean, it's very, very small.
Thanks.
Okay, thank you. We take the next question from the-
The next question comes from Julia Utbult from SEB. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hello, Julia Utbult with SEB. So two questions from my side as well. Firstly, it was discussed that the mix effect, it was, driving the AirTech margin lower. Are you seeing any changes here in the service and component demand, or should we consider this effect as temporal?
I mean, what is driving then, what is very, very pleasing to see, that is, I mean, as you saw, it, we had an order intake around 40% on the-- If I combine then the service and the component sales in the quarter. Last quarter, if I take it out the memory, it was, 55 or something in, in that range then. So from that perspective, a slightly lower mix, in regards to order intake. But a larger mix is actually in between the different regions. And here, I shouldn't say it's unpredictable, but it's more, I mean, sometimes one region is up and another region is down. But I don't foresee a large shift in the mix moving forward.
The only area that I continue to highlight that is, I mean, in China, we are in a more consolidating type of market when it comes to battery production. So there, I think we, for at least a year, without giving a forecast, we will continue to see a fairly weak demand then in China from that perspective.
Okay, thank you very much. You continue to take large data center orders here in the quarter to be delivered during the next two years. Could you give us an update on where you are and expect to be in your capacity utilization?
Very good question, Julia. I can start, and then I will also give the word to Katharina, because, I mean, now Katharina has been with us, and she has been in some factories, and also with her experience then from the North American market within Electrolux then. But if I start like that, then we have really been building our capacity ahead of the curve. If I take a look upon our largest facility in North America, in Virginia, the concept is that we have balanced that up on a one-plus, I call it a one-plus shift, a little bit more than one shift then. And then we have the opportunity, if we would like to increase or if we have a higher demand, to move that up in an even better output through shift.
On top of that, what is really pleasing to see, that is we have worked with Lean during the year. So the pre-calc of that factory and the result of what they are delivering is much better. So from that perspective, I have no doubt that we can handle more orders, if so, coming. But Katharina, any reflections from your side?
Yeah, no, I can just complement by saying that we are also ramping up in the factory in Texas as well. And then, as I mentioned, we are then also expanding in Europe to further increase capacity for the European market.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Karl Bokvist from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and good morning. You partly answered the one—my first question very close, but the kind of indications about normalized order patterns, not just China, do you have a sense of when you think this will be kind of, well, when you kind of compare yourself against apples to apples, so to say?
Here, here, here I have to give a little bit of complex answer, perhaps. And in data center, we are moving step by step upwards. I see that the market is still very attractive for the coming years. With that said, don't be worried that if we won a quarter would have, I call it, zero in order intake, that will not happen. But anyhow, in another quarter, we will have a SEK 3 billion-SEK 4 billion then. That is just the pattern. But there, I'm very confident that we will fill and load our factories in a good way. When it comes to AirTech, I mean, we are currently in this, what I call a shift, then. To some, we had larger orders.
We are now moving into shorter lead times, and it could be one quarter or something like that, where we need to balance the different regions then. Simply put, in China, we have a weaker market. In Europe, we have a quite okay market, and in North America, I mean, we just pump on, so to speak. Then when it comes to FoodTech, pleasing to see that we are now getting more orders, both in China and in Europe, in equipment or in climate solutions, and it continues to be a good market then in North America. But all in all, I think we need to balance some of the factories for a few quarters, nothing more than that.
Understood. And then, just a more technical one, but items affecting comparability in AirTech, quite a step up. Can... maybe you wrote that down in the report, but what do these relate to, and do you expect this to be part of a larger program with higher IACs also in coming quarters?
I can say like this, then the first, it is not part of a larger program when it comes to that in AirTech, then, and then, with the warm hand, I hand it over to Katharina.
No, the charge we took relate to CleanTech in Germany, basically.
Something that we announced, I think it was half a year ago. It is around SEK 21 million.
Yeah.
An adjustment, basically, if I call it like that.
Understood. That's all for me. Thank you.
Okay, so we have a new question from the conference call.
The next question comes from Gustav Berneblad from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Hi, it's Gustav here from Nordea. Just a quick one here on AirTech. I mean, you comment on a decent demand in Europe for the segment, but I mean, is it fair to assume that the utilization rate within your new facility in AirTech in Czechia is currently lower, and therefore, this way on the margin? And or is it just the service, would you say? And then, I mean, to sort of reach the margins we have seen during the year, do you need a more broad-based, strong delivery or?
No, but you point out two different, call it buckets, then. I mean, one, to some extent, it's the mix, call it, then service versus different products. I say like this: we don't have had a weak demand in the factory or a low utilization grade, level, but we have not have a high utilization grade either, level either. And that is, I'm very confident that we gradually will start to fill it up, more step by step, but it has been one of the weaker quarters in that facility, yes.
Okay, great. And then just, regarding battery, I mean, Northvolt now having received sort of Europe's largest green loan ever, I mean, are you notice any change in the dialogue at all or with your customer, or is it fairly unchanged?
This I think is one of the most fascinating subjects there is. I mean, I can greatly say I'm super confident if I look upon what will the future bring. I take Northvolt as an example. More and more investments are put into that market, and we continue to hold our 50% or above share when it comes to... But as we talked about the few quarters, it has been a more hesitancy to place orders. Some orders, I talk about, battery factories in conjunction with some automotive makers. They have splitted their orders in two chunks, et cetera, et cetera. But, so short term, a little bit more reluctancy. Long term, two years ahead, I see an even larger demand. So this is the sort of two buckets then. So I am very optimistic for the coming years.
All right, perfect. Thanks for having my questions.
Thank you. Can we take questions from the call?
The next question comes from Mats Liss from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Two questions from me. First, you mentioned that in SyCool you have—well, you have—you're able to both offer liquid and air-cooled facilities, and I just wondered if you see any change in competition there. And also regarding the European footprint there, if you're, sort of, have received any more particular, well, larger interest in Europe as well.
If I start with the first one, Mats, in regards to... I do feel, as I said earlier, I can perhaps not sort of prove it on each and every decimal, but that we are taking market share in the data center cooling arena. That is not only SyCool, it is the broad portfolio that we have. With that said, coming back to SyCool, it is a large interest, and now we have not only theoretically proven that, we have also physically proven that by taking orders when it comes to both liquid and air-cooled solutions. So it's a continued strong interest there from both, especially from co-locators, but also from hyperscalers. If I move to Europe, the interest for SyCool as such is high.
Then, it takes some time to work through all, call it, the questions that a customer has. But I think I said like this a year ago, I would have been very surprised if it took an order during 2023, and I would be very disappointed if we don't take an order during 2024, when it comes to SyCool in Europe then. And then beside that, in Europe, I'm super pleased to see that we step by step are improving the presence in the market, and we are looking into how can we continue to support that even more.
Okay, great. And then just about FoodTech, I mean, you see improvement there, and I guess, previously we have talked about the strategic review going on and that it's... If there are any changes there, will it be sort of finalized during the first half of 2024?
Yes, and, I mean, Katharina, myself, we are very closely working with the FoodTech team. We have not changed our view on that, and we will carry it through during the first half of this year. Yes.
Okay, great. Thanks.
Thank you. Before we take another question on the call, I would like to pick up-
The next question comes from -
Okay
... Carl Deijenberg from Carnegie.
Okay.
Please go ahead.
Go ahead.
Hi. So two questions from my side. First, on the DCT orders here. Obviously, quite the superior order development here in Q4, and I guess, you know, stripping out these two large orders, you are at, if you want to call it base orders, I don't know, but just about SEK 1 billion. And I think we've talked previously about, you know, a quarterly assumptions, SEK 300 million-SEK 600 million, obviously, with quarterly variations. But I just wanted to, you know, double-check with you now, given what we hear in the end markets, et cetera, et cetera. Is that the reason for, you know, assuming what you're delivering here, being a sort of new structurally higher base going into 2024? Or is it something specific that we should keep in mind here when we look at the Q4 figures?
That's the first thing, question.
I think the wording, and I smile when I say this, I mean, call it the base, the underlying, the more, call it, normal, always sort of boiling type of market. We can call it in many different names. But if I come back to your question, then, I think two observations. One is the data center market as such is a strong market, and we are very competitive in the data center market. Then for me, it is extremely difficult to say, is sort of the order pattern, has that changed? So I put it like this: I mean, the larger orders, they will come and go, and now we had a very strong quarter.
The more, let's say, smaller to mid-sized order that comes in bundles or comes one by one, I mean, they could also vary. But at least I took it as a very, very good evidence of our attractiveness in the market and the offer that we have. I mean, Katharina, you're following this, and, I mean, have you any comments on order patterns in data center in particular?
Yeah, I would just add that I think it's important to look at the development of net sales for data center. I think that helps as well.
Okay, thank you very much. Secondly, also, I just wanted to follow up here on the CapEx development. Very helpful picture or graph there on slide 22, and I just wanted to, yeah, follow up again, if I understood you correctly, in the run rate that you're here, I think Q4 on a rolling twelve-month CapEx base, is that also a fair level to assume you're going into the full year of 2024, given the, you know, end consumer demand or end market demand and also capacity ramp up? Is that a fair level in your view?
Yeah, as I said, we will continue to invest during 2024 in these markets, so in the U.S. and also in China, and also to expand for data center in Europe.
And just to add on that, I mean, and after that, we do feel that when it comes to capacity upgrades, we are pretty much done. Then, of course, if we expand into other venture, that future will tell. But when it comes to the markets, then we are pretty much done.
Okay. Thank you very much, guys.
So, thank you. So now I will take a question from the web, from Filbert, and it's about the market and the market demand. And the EV market seems to slow down, with many OEMs delaying their expansion plans. And do you share this view, and have we seen any impact from our, on our side?
I think it is a mix here. So, the answer is yes and no, then, and let me start with the yes. Yes, it is a delay in certain order patterns, what I referred to earlier as contemplation time or splitting it up in two investments, not building the full factory, etc. That has happened then, let's say, since half a year, three months, and it's current. On the other hand, the no, that is that in Europe and in North America, more investment plans are released. Then I talk about the investment programs coming from the Inflation Reduction Act. Someone referred to the support or the loan type of capital facilities that Northvolt was given here from Europe, etc.
So the best prediction or view I can give you, that is we are now, we have gone from very strong to somewhat weaker, and I predict it will, not next quarter, but in the future, start to move up again. And this is very much related to politics, very much related consumer behavior. A lot of inflation has been sort of hitting out many of us, and I think when consumer confidence comes back on, on this, then also investments will increase. But I'm, for a few years ahead, super confident that electrification will just carry on.
Thank you, Klas. Great. So now we take another question from the conference call.
The next question comes from Carl Oscar from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Yes, hi there. Most of my questions have actually been asked. There's just one thing I'd like to clarify a bit, and it's the margin development in AirTech. So this discussion on mix versus capacity utilization. I mean, if I just look at the service revenues, for example, in, like, Q2, Q3, you know, you were high teens, you know, 18%-19% service revenues, but still managed to squeeze out quite a significantly higher margin. So I'm just kind of thinking, you know, actually, how much was the mix effect? Maybe you could comment a bit on that. You know, was it more components and so forth? What was the share of that? Or is it actually more a scenario where it's the actual capacity utilization that's sort of the culprit? That'd be helpful. Thanks.
If I start, then I also let Katharina in. And if I average out the answer, then I would say it is sort of both. There is a mix coming from service, components, and project extent, so to speak, and that has burdened us to some extent. And then it is the other side, and that I alluded to earlier, in some of our factories, we have not been up to the same capacity during the quarter as the quarter before. And I think that is the best blend, from my view, I can give. I don't know, Katharina?
No, I fully agree with that. Yeah.
All right. And then, I guess, just quick on the lead time changes in AirTech. So could you quantify a bit sort of where you're coming from, what you're seeing, how short are these lead times now? What's your visibility, and how should we think about that going into this sort of, let's say, slightly tougher outlook in early 2024 here?
Let me go back then to... Now I go back a lot in time then. I go back to before COVID. Before COVID, the general lead time pattern with AirTech were around, let's say, six to nine months, and then it moved itself all the way up during COVID, supply chain crisis, you name it, up to sometimes 15-18 months. I would say now it is perhaps in the range of 12 months, but I mean, in some cases, and this I just give as an example, a couple of quarters ago, another competitor was winning a smaller battery project in the U.S. Due to whatever reasons, that competitor could not deliver.
The customer came back to us and said, "I mean, you're in again," but then they had a very quick delivery time on that, or demand, and we were able to handle that. So for me, this represents both a challenge and an opportunity, i.e., we have now the flexibility, if needed, to squeeze in smaller orders if there is so. But at the same time, we also have the challenge, then, that we cannot predict the load 12, 15 months ahead.
Yeah, that's fair. All right. Thank you.
Thank you very much. So with that, time is up, and we would like to conclude this presentation of our Q4 and full year results. So thank you, Klas. Thank you, Katharina.
Thank you.
And we look forward to see you again, and do note that we have an investor webinar coming up on the twenty-sixth of March about Data Center Technologies, so very exciting. So don't miss that. And, so with that, I say thank you, and have a nice day.
Thank you.
Thank you.