Good morning, and welcome to this presentation covering the 3Q in 2023 in Ratos. Jonas Wiström, our President and CEO, and Jonas Ågrup, our CFO, will guide us through the results. In the end of the presentation, we will have a Q&A session where you will be able to raise your questions. And of course, this webcast is also recorded, so you can find it at ratos.com afterwards. With that, I'll hand over to Jonas Wiström.
Thank you, Josefine. Thank you everyone for joining us this morning. We're in a quite good mood here in Ratos. We think we have delivered yet another strong report, and I will start up with the summary. In the quarter, we had a strong cash flow, a cash conversion almost 170%. Leverage is continuing to decrease, and EBITDA, also reported EBITDA, is up 20%. In our focus areas, construction and services and industry, we had a really strong EBITDA growth. In consumer, we focused on getting inventory levels down in Plantasjen , which was according to plan. We prioritized working capital or cash flow in front of profitability.
So Plantasjen, actually, as you've seen, lost SEK 106 million compared to last year, but sales were actually up in a very weak consumer market, due to this sale of certain product groups with a substantially lower gross margin. So how strange it might sound, this was our plan, and they executed on that. All in all, sales up 13%, whereof organic is at 2%. I will come back to these growth numbers for the different business areas. And again, cash flow up 17%, and leverage, as you remember, was 2.5 in the beginning of the year, in Q1, and I think we had 1.6 in Q2, and now we're on 1.3, which feels good, given the environment that surrounds us.
So if we look at just an overview, we have had a CAGR sales growth of 18%, and this quarter it was %. Adjusted EBITDA CAGR is up 17%, and this quarter, actually 20% EBITDA growth. So now let's take a look at the business areas. Starting up with construction and services, they had a growth of 10%, all organic. We had very strong EBITDA growth in all of the division or business area, and HENT and Aibel had also very good results due to the project phasing in Aibel. You've heard of that, you who have followed us during the years.
And we also had great projects that was closing on good profit levels in the quarter for HENT and the other construction companies. So the EBITDA margin due to these events is up to 9.8%, and LTM number is 7.5%. One should also know that our return on capital employed was very strong in this segment, as it used to be. So EBITDA is up because of volume and, again, good projects. We have seen during the quarter also postponed projects, and this market has, during the quarter, showed a tougher climate, and that is also something we expect for the future in this segment. Our next core area, industry, also a strong EBITDA growth and strong sales growth.
If we start with sales, up 47%. Here we can see, of course, the acquisition of Semcon, but also very strong growth in HL Display and in TFS. Adjusted EBITDA in the quarter is up again, and we can see acquisitions, currency, and price also contribute to our growth. Wind market is down, which affects mainly Diab, but Diab reported, I think, their best improvement of their EBITDA, at least during my time at the helm. And that is because the other business segments in Diab is developing very strong, with strong profitability. If we then go further to the consumer area, which I've already been into, the big thing here in the quarter was strong results in KVD, but also inventory reduction program in Plantasjen .
Net sales declined with 5%. In spite of the fact that Plantasjen, this sounds a bit strange, but Plantasjen's sales was up due to this sale program we had for the products we want to get the inventory down on. But KVD, their result or their sales went down because we are now doing almost only broking of cars. So but last quarter, we had inventory of cars, which made their revenue to increase, but profitability to come down. So now we're in the right business model, with a strong development there. Coming back to Plantasjen, during the year, we have actually improved cash flow with SEK 645 million, versus previous year. EBITDA margin -5%, LTM 2.3. We reached our targets actually for consumer this quarter.
To dig deeper into the numbers, I will leave over to my CFO, Jonas Ågrup, and let you take care of this. Thank you.
Thank you, Jonas. So let's look at net sales and EBITDA for the quarter and also the LTM numbers. We have seen the growth in net sales and for EBITDA, Jonas talked about that, but I just wanted to point out the LTM numbers. We are now at SEK 34 billion in net sales, and this is excluding Aibel. And for the EBITDA LTM, we are at SEK 2.2 billion. So we have a positive trend on the LTM numbers. Then I move to the operating cash flow. It was strong in the quarter. We were up 17%. We saw good cash flows in both construction and services, but also in industry. And both these two business areas showed really good cash conversion ratios in the quarter.
If we look at the twelve months cash flow, the operating cash flow, we are at SEK 3.4 billion, with a cash conversion ratio of 153%. We will continue to focus on reducing the working capital and to achieve good cash flows in the business, also going forward. If we look at net working capital, you can see the trend. If you go back to 2021 and 2022, we had an increase, which was very much related to the inventory increase that we saw in Plantasjen, where we were sort of building up inventory. But since a couple of quarters back, we have been focusing on reducing the inventory levels and reducing the net working capital levels.
You can see that we are down 30% in the quarter, down to 683. If we look at the LTM sales, we are at 3.3%, so we don't tie that much capital in net working capital in the Ratos business. We continue to see positive trends in days sales outstanding, the DSO, but also on the days inventories outstanding, the DIO. We have a positive trend for those two KPIs in the group. Here you see the bridges. If we start with the net sales bridge, acquired in total, it was up 13%, as we said earlier. Acquired growth, SEK 676 million.
It's up 10%, and this is very much related to industry, where we have the acquisitions of Semcon and Knightec. But we also have good performance in some of our companies where we really have started to make a lot of add-on acquisitions. And I just wanted to point out HL Display as an example, where we have good acquired growth as well. If we look at organic growth, 167, it's 2%. We saw good organic growth in construction and services, however, negative in industry and consumer. And as Jonas said, we actually had growth in Plantasjen, so Plantasjen grew 2% organically in the quarter.
Positive FX effects as an effect of the weak Swedish krona, and we didn't have any other effects in the quarter. If we then move on to adjusted EBITDA bridge, it's up 20% in the quarter. Acquired growth, seven percent, mainly again, as an effect of the acquisition, and this time, Semcon, but also the add-on acquisitions. If we look at organic growth, SEK 32 million, it's 7%, and this is very much again, related to construction services and industry. If I just wanted to point out a couple of companies where we have seen good increase in EBITDA, I would just like to mention Aibel, HENT, Diab, and KVD, where we saw really good performances in the quarter.
You can see that we have in other plus SEK 16 million, and this is actually savings from cost reductions programs that we made earlier. We had one in the end of last year. We have had two cost reduction programs in the beginning of this year, and this is now starting to give results on. So we have savings of SEK 16 million. If we look at leverage, we're down at 1.3x . Good cash flow in the quarter, and we continue to have good and strong cash, and also the increased EBITDA is a part of this, of course.
If we look at the net debt, we were down at SEK 3,254 million, so we reduced and we amortized bank debt in the end of the quarter, and that total amount was SEK 500 million. Then finally, if we look at the financial targets, they remain the same as before. We are aiming for at least SEK 3 billion EBITDA by 2025. The leverage should be in the range between 1.5-2.5x , and the dividend payout is still the target is 30%-50% of profit after tax. So I hand over to you, Jonas.
Thank you, Jonas, and thank you for referring to industry and their negative organic growth, because I think I missed to mention that, the organic growth in the business area industry, we had positive organic growth in our service companies, in Semcon and Knightec and TFS, and so on. So we had positive growth there, in spite of the fact that it was actually one working day less in the quarter. May not sound so much, but it was in September, which is really only full month for the Q3. So we're happy with that. Well, the final remarks, we had a strong EBITDA growth, we had strong cash flows, and our focus business areas, they are really delivering also in this quarter.
It's hard not to mention the environment we're living in, with terrible wars, with inflation, and where global trade actually is challenged. Global trade that has created so much wealth for so many is challenged. So in these troublesome times, we are in a good mode that we are capable to deliver strong results, and we feel very much that we are well equipped for continued challenges coming forward, which we are sure will be there. But our Ratos Business System works, our decentralized model works, and our financial position is very stronger than in long time, so we feel very prepared. Thank you so much, Josefine.
Thank you, Jonas. And now it's time to open up for questions and start our Q&A session. So let's start to open the line for Victor Hansen, Nordea, please.
Yeah. Thank you, Josefine, and good morning. Victor here. So a couple of questions from my side, and firstly here, so you mentioned positive organic sales growth in your service companies, but could you tell us more about how the margins have developed in the consulting companies?
I didn't really hear you in the beginning, but it's Victor, right?
Yes. Yep. Yeah, correct.
Good morning, Victor. We are not disclosing margins for the individual companies, but Q3 is a weak quarter for profitability. But can we say, Jonas, that it was good?
No, I think it was pretty good, actually.
Yeah, but Q3 is a weak quarter with vacation and so on, and one day less, as you mentioned, one working day.
Compared to last year, I think it was good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, understood.
More questions, Victor.
Maybe more, if I may.
Yeah, please.
Yeah. So, Mr. Ågrup, you mentioned savings of SEK 60 million. I'm wondering if this is in the quarter or year to date?
No, it's in the quarter. You know, we had cost reduction programs in KVD, which was launched in the end of last year. We also had programs in Speed, for example, reducing costs, so we, and also in SSEA Group, we had a cost saving program, so it's the effects of these programs, actually.
I think it's worth to mention that we are not adjusting the EBITDA because of that.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
We're quite conservative.
When we take the cost, we don't adjust the EBITDA. No, that's, that's correct.
Excellent. And, two more questions here. So you had a positive contribution from CapEx in your cash flow, which is quite unusual, and I guess it's some divestment that drove this. I'm wondering if you could tell us more.
Yeah, we sold. We had two facilities in Texas within the operation that's in the U.S., and we sold one of the premises and moved into another, which is a rented premises. And that was a positive effect around roughly SEK 100 million in the quarter, but there were no gain reported out of that sale.
Yeah, got it. And the final question here: So, so you're now below your leverage target at 1.3x . So I'm wondering, yeah, what are your plans in terms of capital allocation?
Well, should we answer it together, Jonas? I think if I start, we think it's good to have a decent leverage in these times we're in, but we think we have now possibilities also to use this a strong position to acquire new companies, not new platform companies, but add-ons to the companies we have, where we have actually a very, very, very good track record with the high synergies. And I think the normal or the average multiple, Jonas, are between 5 and 6-
Yes
They have really been value creating. We're also, of course, looking at our minorities in the platforms we have, et cetera. But I think it's fair to say, Jonas, that even if leverage will increase, we don't want to reach the top of the span now in these times.
No.
Is that a fair answer, you think?
Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Excellent. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Victor Hansen from Nordea. Now let's move over to Simen Enger from Handelsbanken. The line is open for you, please.
Thanks for taking our questions. Just a question on what you expect going forward. Jonas Wiström, you commented in Dagens Industri this morning that you see some conditions worsening, and in conjunction with that mentioned consumer and construction and services. Could you elaborate on how you expect these worsening conditions to affect the different segments?
Yes, thank you. I can reveal to you that I, one year ago, said that I was quite bothered about this year we're into now, and said that if we could keep the results, it would be good. I've been around some time in the industry and have said recessions before. Now, demand and not the least, our operational capabilities has moved us into this position we have. Forecasts are difficult to make, but already in Q3, the market we were in Q3 were weaker, especially in construction and services. You see this everywhere in all reports, basically.
When it comes to industry, our product solution companies, HL, Diab, LEDiL, and so on, we had negative organic growth, very much because of wind. But I mean, the macro numbers should hit these companies sooner or later. But again, I'm very bad in forecasting the future. So we are prepared for... We had a weaker sentiment in this quarter, and we are prepared for that to be even worse. I think everyone must have that. Be prepared for that. Consumer market is clearly down, and the only reason for sales going up in Plantasjen was the sales that took inventory downs and cash flow ups. So I'm sorry, but I'm not, what is spådomma in English?
We will come back to that.
To foresee. But I think you all agree that we are in a difficult world, and the sentiment is not positive, so we are prepared for worse times.
Okay, thanks for your, for your answer. And just, and just quickly on Aibel. You, you have said that this is going to be the results are going to be good at the end of the year. Should we expect Q4 to have to be even better than Q3?
I'm not gonna answer that question. I refer to what I just said. I can say that we had. I think I stated in the beginning of the year, when we had weak EBITDA coming in from Aibel, that I said, "I think they will do their best year ever." I still think they will do their best year ever, and their contribution also in Q3 was strong. That is-
Mm. Yeah
... That far I can go, but not further. Sorry for that.
Those were the questions from me. Thank you.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thank you, Simen. So let's open up the line for Henric Hintze with ABG.
Thank you.
Henric? Yeah, there you are.
Yes, I'm here. Could you just comment on what the rationale behind the Aleido spin-off was? Do you have any plans to sell it going forward, or what's the plan with Semcon and Aleido?
Hmm. Thank you. Now, this sector is one we are focusing on, as you know, and you will see more things happening in this area. The reason, the main reason is that, Aleido is working with the aftermarket. Aftermarket information make our industrial companies being more profitable on the more and more important aftermarket. Semcon had Aleido or the market information thing, but the other part of Semcon is basically product development and production development, all very digital. So, Semcon will be a more focused company, like Knightec, and Aleido will also be a more focused company, where their brand will stand for just aftermarket, and I think that will increase their sales and their profitability even better. So that's the rationale behind it.
... All right, thanks. Could you just explain a bit more on the organic decline in the industry? You wrote that the consultants saw organic growth, but what exactly happened in the product solutions businesses that drove the decline? What are you seeing there?
Well, we lost a lot of sales in Diab in the wind market. But we have also seen lower order intake in LEDiL, for instance, and it's a slightly weaker sentiment than... But it's not what we see in construction and services, but it is signs of a weaker sentiment. And I think you hear that from other manufacturing and industrial companies also. So it's nothing big that has happened except for wind continuing to be lower. But we have seen a lower order intake in LEDiL, et cetera, without losing market share. So there are signs on the weaker market also in industry. But consumer and construction services is ahead, is my view at least.
All right. Thank you. That's all for me.
Thank you, Henric.
Thank you.
Let's open up the line for Johan Sjöberg at Kepler Cheuvreux, please.
I'm sorry, I'm stuck in between. Yes, I had a question on the industry, really on your visibility also looking into. So how far ahead do you see in your companies? What sort of time span are we talking about when you talk to your visibility, please?
That is a very good question. It differs between companies. You talked about the industry division only.
Correct. Correct.
The outlook, the shortest sort of preview you have is in the service companies. It is in Knightec and Semcon. And I think where do we have the longest outlook? Maybe in Diab. It varies quite a lot, but it's also, how do you define this? Is it when order book's coming down or revenue coming down?
Mm.
In construction and services, we have enormous order backlog, but if you look at order intake, it's... So we're well prepared, but the order intake will be weaker, is what we think. Any comments from you, Johan?
In terms of your own cost cutting measures, have you taken these already in the company? I understand you are saying that, you're prepared, but have you actually initiated cost cutting actions in... for example, within the consultancy businesses, or how are you planning there?
You will see cost cutting in companies going forward. I'm not gonna, of obvious reasons, mention who they might be, but that will happen. It will. And that is to protect the results and financial standing we have. We have done that more than we maybe have disclosed. You were into it-
Yes
... before because, we are adjusting EBITDA, but then it's, if it's very big cost cutting programs, we think it's good for transparency to disclose that. But, but we are fixing the garden all the time, actually, and you will see a little bit more of that in Q4, I think.
Speaking about garden, just talking a little bit about Plantasjen also in... I mean, Norway has been the strongest market for Plantasjen now. Have you seen any change in the Norwegian market, I mean, on the back of the interest rates and hikes and things like that? If I look at the underlying activity within Plantasjen in the Norwegian business.
I believe that is the case. I really don't know. I would guess it is the same sentiment as in Sweden, but I don't know, and I can for sure come back to you. But
But it's been fairly-
Okay
... on the same level.
Fairly on the same level.
Yes, yes.
You confirm that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you, Johan.
Thank you.
Finally, do we have a participant from Pareto, Georg Attling, perhaps?
Yes, I'm on. Good morning.
Please. Good morning.
A couple of questions, starting with Diab. As you mentioned, strong growth, if you exclude the wind, or this growth. So I'm just wondering if you could quantify how much wind is of, total revenues in Diab, and also how much growth is excluding wind?
Wind is down compared to last year. I don't have the numbers. I don't know if we should disclose the numbers. You decide here. But the marine industry and aerospace segment is growing. And I think the most important thing that has happened for Diab this year is that they have reached a new contract for the majority of the interior for Airbus, a new for all new produced aircrafts. And we will see that coming into our books mid-2024 and forward, and that is something we hope a lot from. But as today, industry, aerospace, and marine is growing, and with good profitability. We're losing money on wind still. Although volumes are down, we're losing money on wind.
Yeah, I don't think we should-
Okay.
disclose the exact numbers, but, as you understand, Georg, I mean, the sales for the wind segment is down quite a lot compared to one and a half year ago, yeah.
Yeah, of course. And but on wind, on Diab's wind segment, you said you have quite good visibility in, in Diab sales. Do we, do you think we closing in on the bottom here in the wind demand, or is there still, you know, continued headwinds in the quarters ahead?
I think we will see... I mean, let's put it like this: we are operating from a perspective that we will have a weak and maybe weaker wind market also, 2024.
Okay. And on Plantasjen, you said that you worked on inventory levels and that impacted margins. Is that, you know, behind us now, or are you still seeing elevated inventory levels in Plantasjen?
We want to continue to decrease our inventory in Plantasjen, and we will do that also going forward. Now, Q4-
Okay
... is, except for Christmas, it's a small quarter. So, but we will continue to decrease our inventory levels to until we come back to 2020 or so. The thing is that, during the COVID years, we had very, very big problems with logistics and transports from China. So we took a decision, which we regret today, to fill up our inventories to be able to perform great sales for the next season. And that debt is... We are still working to come down on that, and we'll continue to do that. And it has been over our expectations, actually, this quarter and also the quarter before. But we'll come back to that when we meet next time.
Yes, and just a final question on the construction service backlog. If you could describe the order intake in the critical infrastructure versus the more, you know, pure play construction and how that may differ?
Not disclosing any numbers here, but I was talking about markets in a quite negative tone. I want to underline that the infrastructure market is a market that is growing, and we expect that to grow both in Sweden and Norway. And I think you know, but just railways is an enormous demand on better and more railways in Sweden, and that's an area we have invested in, and that goes for roads as well, both in Sweden and in Norway. So we believe that this market will continue to grow, and we're happy that our infrastructure business is growing.
It's helpful. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Georg, and I think that was it. If there is someone online who still wants to pose a question, please? No, don't think so. Well, thank you so much, Jonas and Jonas. And this webcast was recorded, so you can see it afterwards at Ratos.com. Having said that, thank you so much for being with us this morning, and goodbye.