Welcome to Sectra's financial report presentation with CEO Torbjörn Kronander and CFO Mats Franzén. My name is Helena Pettersson, and I will be the moderator of the Q&A session after management presentation. The chat function is open, and you are welcome to start writing your questions. If you don't see the chat function, it is on the top of your screen. It's a speech bubble with a question mark in it. If you don't see it, you may need to switch to full width mode on your screen. With that, I leave the word to Torbjörn Kronander.
All right. Welcome to our presentation of first half year. It's myself, Torbjörn Kronander, CEO, and Mats Franzén, our CFO, who sits here to the right of me. Then we'll go to the presentation. Six-month interim report. Agenda today is Q2 highlights, that will be done by me, financial development done by Mats, Sectra's way forward, done by me, and finally, we'll have a Q&A session. As Helena said before, you can either send email or you can use the chat function in the Teams meeting here. We also have some pre-sent in emails that Helena will read when we have the session. The value we create for customers at Sectra. We are working in three areas. All are important for society, and they have the benefits for two major areas, I would say, medical and cybersecurity.
Both have the benefits that these areas will have to grow, and we have the basic idea that it's easier to grow and grow in markets. As we have presented in other presentations available on the net, both medical and cybersecurity has to grow, driven by external forces, and that's where we operate. Q2 highlights. We have our net sales. We had an extremely good first quarter. We also told very early on at that presentation that some of these were deliveries made earlier, and that level was not to be expected for the full year. That is also what we're seeing now. The net sales was increased by 15.7% over the six months.
Profit per share increased by 53%, and the recurring revenue, which is a very important figure now, it must be made aware of that our change to software as a service model will change how we, how the orders are delivered. We still get large orders, but recurring revenue is what we think is a very important growth factor now. While the top-line revenue, as we spread this income of a license out over future years instead of the present year, will not grow as much as the underlying business grows now, for shareholders it will be long-term a good thing, but it will not look like the mix. The mix will not look as it has been doing, historically. All our financial targets for the group are fulfilled. Our first target is stability.
We are dealing in markets where trust is super important. If our systems stop in hospitals, the entire hospital stops. If our system doesn't work in cybersecurity, the most important secrets of nations are compromised. We cannot operate in such an area without trust. That also goes for financial trust. We should have a strong financial situation that is expressed by equity to assets ratio, which should always be above 30%, and we are currently at 61.3%. Good margin to the 30%. Profitability, that's a hygiene measure as we see it. Our target is to be above 15%. Now, cost of the pandemic has been much lower than normal. We are seeing these costs coming back though.
We need to go to exhibitions, and we just recently participated in the first international exhibition in two years, which was the RSNA in Chicago. We see some of these costs coming back. The target's still to keep it above 15%, but we're currently clearly above that at 23.3%. The most important target, which is profit growth per share over five years, that should be above 50%, and we're currently well above that at 134.3%. That is the most important target, though it's rated ranked number three in priority. Seasonal effects and the pandemic, we have large variations between quarters. Some of these are due to the pandemic. You have countries open up, and they lock down, and we can't travel, and this affects us a lot.
Especially it affects our customers in healthcare and our delivery possibilities in cybersecurity. We need all business negotiations at the highest level of security needs to be done in person. It cannot be done over net. All deliveries in this category are done by courier. If you cannot travel, you cannot deliver. In medical, if there is a situation with virus situation. The thing you shut down or close down in order to open up to be more prepared for handling the pandemic has been this elective surgeries or elective procedures, things that are not acute. They have decreased, and some of our business areas, especially orthopedics, have been affected because they deal exactly with elective surgery.
It's gradually coming back and of course, people who need a new prosthesis, et cetera, they have not gone away. This is a pent-up increased workload ahead of us. We don't know what the impact that will be, but it has affected us historically here over the pandemic. Travel and marketing costs will increase post-pandemic, but we do not think that they will go back to historic levels. The days when you did a trip to another country for a two-hour meeting of people you already know are probably and hopefully over, and that will increase efficiency and some of that travel will not come back as we see it today. Secure Communications, Q2 highlights. The Norwegian Armed Forces procured additional units of our Sectra Tiger/S.
That's our most qualified encrypted mobile encryption system. It's a mobile phone that we build ourselves. It's approved to the secret level in NATO and EU and Sweden and Netherlands, not Sweden yet, but Netherlands. We have had problems mainly due to COVID, but also quite a lot of investments in the communications area, and we are working to increase this to more normal levels for Sectra. Our growth initiatives in Sectra Communications, mobile secure workplaces, that's a very interesting area. It was already coming before the pandemic, and now it's even more important. People want to be working from remote, but they want to be on a secure network, as secure as if they had been on the physical cable in the office.
This is a growing area, also on the level of qualified, secret, and restricted information, and we are very well positioned in that area. It's not only voice, it's the entire mobile workplace. Critical infrastructure, there has been some significant events, not the least the Colonial Pipeline in the U.S., the Eastern U.S. during the spring, that increased awareness that we have built a very vulnerable society and critical infrastructure must be protected against cybercrime. We are well positioned there and that's a growing area where we're investing right now. Higher security levels for secure mobile voice and network systems. As I said before, this is work areas where we've been working in for many years, now very well positioned. We also have high-speed network encryption systems, and then we mean on the approved level.
Level two, level three, and level four network devices that are very high speed, but on the approved security levels. We have Simo Pykälistö, who's been with Sectra for 18 years, first as CFO and then managing communications, has unfortunately decided to leave Sectra for another opportunity. We currently have an interim manager in place, Magnus Breen, who has a history as managing directors for various companies. He will formally take over that role January first, but he's already here. We are looking for a new permanent manager during the early spring. Business Innovation Q2 highlights. We had an interesting interest in the education area.
We just got our first install in Norway, where we got the honor of delivering our education portal to Oslo Metropolitan University for medical education. That's a first in Norway. In orthopedics, we won a very prestigious award. We won the best software for postoperative follow-up with our Sectra Implant Movement Analysis to see if prostheses are really working or if they should be reoperated. We also have seen a strong negative effect from pandemic effects as both of these areas, but especially in orthopedics.
Growth initiatives in Business Innovation, we have in medical education, we are transitioning from a device delivery of our large tables for a medical education used to replace the autopsies more or less for students, that we are now have so much content that we're beginning to also sell content subscriptions. This is a very large change. We get recurring revenue. As with all parts of Sectra, we're moving this area heavily into recurring revenue. We are selling a larger proportion of recurring revenue in teaching all the time. We have also seen during pandemic that people are doing more and more education remotely, and that has also sped this up. We have new areas within orthopedics, Sectra Implant Movement Analysis.
I said before, this is in order to determine which patients should be reoperated. This is when patients have already an implant, and they have problems or pain, they come back, and very often it's reoperated. A revision of a prosthesis is a dangerous operation, and it's also very expensive, much more so than the first prosthesis. To avoid the ones that could be avoided because it's actually not the problem with the prosthesis is important. That has been very difficult to do, and we have a new technology, Sectra Implant Movement Analysis, originally developed at the Karolinska Institutet of Stockholm, that we're now having a lot of clinical trials, and we're also using it in clinical use in some countries all over the world.
A variation of that is also more or less the same as software, but used not for a patient, but to evaluate new prosthesis, to see if a prosthesis are actually staying at the place you insert in the body or if it moves. There, the customers are prosthesis manufacturers who need a research tool to see if the prosthesis work or not. In research, which is the third area of Business Innovation, we are doing a lot of work in AI for medical applications, and we're also looking into future application areas of various kind. Imaging IT Solutions, our largest area. Q2 highlights, we are seeing cloud-based deliveries are increasing. In Sweden, all the latest installs have been cloud delivered on our private cloud. We also see an increase, increasing interest, especially in the U.S., for public cloud.
That is when Microsoft or Azure or Google host our applications, and we have now joined an international partnership with Microsoft on increasingly delivering our applications in the Microsoft cloud. Very good collaboration, and that can be important for the future, or will be important for the future. In Europe so far, we have done private cloud because of GDPR reasons. We cannot use the Microsoft cloud in Europe yet. We hope to be able to do it soon. We also see our customer base growing. We have a good, healthy growth, especially in the number of exams we handle in our systems. As I said before, with cloud deliveries, recurring revenue is more important than actually the top-line revenue because when we sell the license over time, it will affect the immediate sale after getting an order.
Our growth initiatives in Imaging IT Solutions, we are looking into new markets. We are just opened our first partnership in South America. That will not be super large, but it's an interesting step into new continent. Enterprise imaging, we are doing a lot of work in a system that more or less parallel to the medical record systems, handling all images of hospitals. As we announced before, we are growing very well in pathology, where we are definitely one of the world leaders, and integrated diagnostics, where you combine pathology and radiology, especially for cancer diagnosis. We are increasing in cardiology, also using a lot of images.
We have a new area, ophthalmology, developed together with a very important customer in the U.S., which is now in clinical use and will be another important addition to our enterprise imaging. We are focusing on the U.S. That's the world's largest market with top customer satisfaction, which we are very, very proud of. We have had the happiest customer in the U.S. for eight years in a row, and we still have a small but growing market share. In some other area, countries where we also have very happy customers, we have a very large market share that will be difficult to grow. But in the U.S., we are still not a very large player. I'll leave the word to Mats, who will discuss the financial developments.
Yes. Okay, starting with the order intake, we see the same pattern as we did in the first quarter. We are down some in the first six months with some 37%, and I think it was 37.5% in the second quarter. This means that we're on a rolling twelve now or at SEK 2.1 billion-SEK 2.15 billion to be more exact, which is down 19% compared with the SEK 2.6 billion we had for last financial year. The net sales is up some 16%.
That was accomplished primarily in the very strong first quarter, which those of you who have followed us know is due to a temporal situation where we had order deliveries or deployments coming earlier for various reasons, which also then we said, and we still say, do not impact the way how we view things going forward. We do have a slight adverse currency situation, so 17.4% would have been the performance so far, currency neutral, especially the U.S. dollar has appreciated in relation to the Swedish krona or the Swedish krona has grown stronger rather. However, now we have seen that reversed over the last six weeks or so. We can go to the next slide, which is me.
Sorry for that. When it comes to sales by geographic market, we do have a strong performance in the U.S. continued. In Sweden is the only market actually where we have a contraction for the first six months, and that is primarily due to Communications side. The rest of Europe is also the second-largest contributor, where actually about half of that is Norway, and then we have Belgium and Germany comprising the lion's share of the residual. As for the rest of the world, which also had quite a good traction during the first six months, we see that it's pretty much evenly split between Canada and Australia. Looking at the performance in terms of segments, it is quite clear from this image that this picture that it's Imaging IT Solutions, which is the big contributor here.
The Secure Communications has had a rough patch for the first six months in terms of revenue developments. That's pretty much the big picture here that we can see. In terms of earnings, we also see that the volume-based increase in Imaging IT has clearly also reflected in the earnings or the profit numbers. We do have a somewhat stronger gross margin, although we don't report that on a separate line item, but that's primarily due to the fact that we do not have as much hardware and third-party products. It's less than 8% this second quarter, at least, and it was about 17% in the comparable second quarter. We do, on the other hand, have an uptick in the costs now that we can see, which we foresaw as well due to hopefully being able to visit customers and being able to onboard more colleagues for the future.
Other operations have a slightly higher cost increase presently as well due to IT, especially IT consultancy and projects going on to accommodate a higher volume. As for cash flow, obviously the operating profit is a good baseline to start with. We have had a good year so far in terms of operating profits. However, a considerable part of this is not converted really as we had such a strong sales. We do have that captured in operating working capital, so to say. We also have slightly higher investments. I would say this second quarter now being somewhere just below the SEK 50 million mark is pretty much the normal or the historical. It's actually 2019 and 2020, which were the odd years with above SEK 100 million. Looking two more years back, it's around SEK 50 million in cash flow in this second quarter. That's not outside the normal.
Okay, back to you, Torbjörn.
All right. I will continue with Sectra's way forward as we plan and look forward to it. Focus going forward will be continuously to work for higher customer satisfaction or high customer satisfaction. That is kind of in our genes. We have a very strong belief if you have happy customers, which requires happy employees, then you will have profitable growth if you're working in markets that are growing. That will be good for shareholders long term and very often short term also. We also want to skate to where the puck is going to be as the saying goes. We are investing in things we believe will be important, not only next year, but three to eight years out.
A very good example of that is digital pathology, where we saw this as an important growth field that was the last area of medical imaging that was still not digital. We started up at a loss. It was lossy for several years. We invested there. Today we are on trajectory in a world leading position or one of the world leaders in a completely new area that will spread all over the world. That is how we operate. Some of these doesn't work out, then we have to shut them down. We rather have a few that works out and gets us in the right position than not daring to take these investments at all. This is a quote that we very often use. Some of you who have heard us before have seen it before.
It is, you know, you can imagine a lot of things, but the world is not so different from the way it always have been. Profit in business comes from repeat customers that boast about your product or service and that bring friends with them. Old quote from Edwards Deming, who was consultant for the Japanese state after the war. This has been the rule for eternity and will be the rule going forward. It's also about you should never, ever forget it. You need to keep your current customers happy in order to get new ones. In order to have happy customers, you need happy employees. Sorry for the misspelling there. That you cannot have happy customers if the employees are not happy. We work a lot with employee satisfaction as well.
Very happy to announce that we were voted by our own staff in anonymous votes to be the fourth best employer in all of Sweden. This is super important both for recruitment, but also for our employees to do good work towards customers. Customers feel the attitude and the morale and the mentality in the company, and that affects very much the customer's impression of Sectra as a whole. Increasing recurring revenue, as was said before, this will be an increasingly important goal for us to increase this. We have a large interest in pay-per-use. We introduced last year a Sectra One model. We see now that the interest in buying from customers in that way, where you buy for usage instead of the license, has increased tremendously.
Actually, the norm of the discussions we're having with future customers right now is most often in this model than a license sale. A little different in Europe where the way the European purchases work, that there is more license content here. The U.S. who are faster to move, we see a huge interest in Sectra One. Transition to this new sales model will be over several years. During the transition, as I said before, the apparent revenue growth top line will be significantly smaller despite large growth in real usage. Real usage is actually what determines our long-term profitability more than anything else, especially if we get paid per usage, of course, but also generally. Our top line growth will be smaller while the long-term profitability will be better than before.
Coming out of this change of model, as we have seen in many other IT areas, other markets around us. Long term, the financial effects will be strongly positive if people pay-per-use instead of paying for initial license. Schedule of the PACS is going to be future things we are working on in Imaging IT Solutions is enterprise medical imaging, including pathology. Pathology is still in a very, very early market phase. It's a small fraction of the world's pathology departments are digital today, and we are very well positioned in that area. Healthcare is under significant strain and pressure for production. There are too few medical doctors and medical staff all over the world compared to the inflow of patients, especially elderly patients.
The way to serve to these people is, of course, to improve the workflows and make them more effective, not only running faster, because that won't work. We provide our medical customers with tools so they can be more efficient without working even more hours than they already do. Consolidated large-scale IT systems. There's a huge consolidation going on in the world between providers of healthcare, both in the public healthcare countries where you merge large groups and regionalize, but also in private systems where there's more mergers and acquisitions and some chains by other hospitals. We are well-positioned in that area. We have a very scalable IT systems. You know, we see that very often we replace other vendor systems who did not scale.
These providers, these healthcare providers need a system that can grow with them without forklift upgrades, and we're strong in that area. In cybersecurity, high-speed, high-security networking infrastructure that is approved network infrastructures. Of course, as all over the world, networking becoming more important, also in authorities, defenses, et cetera. These people need high security network that are approved to secret or restricted levels. This is a huge growth area, and we are well-positioned with our new products. Secure mobile workplaces. People want or need to work remotely. Not the least, this has been very obvious in the pandemic. People who sit on a closed-down network with a cable that is orange or red, they need to be able to sit remotely and be as secure.
That requires very special security solutions, and what you normally can buy on the network, as for VPNs, et cetera, are not appropriate for these needs for the high security levels. We are good there, and we're increasing in that area. Secure mobile workplace will be a large area of growth in the future. Of course, safeguarding critical infrastructure as we discussed before. Business Innovation. The spare part human is becoming reality, especially for skeletal pieces. There are many, many tens of thousands of orthopedic devices you can actually insert into the human body. These people will need more preoperative planning to get the right device into the right people. Also, as we said before, revision should be avoided because they're very, very expensive and also very expensive.
Our Implant Movement Analysis is unique in that ability and to avoid unnecessary revisions. We also see in education the lifespan of medical knowledge is getting shorter and shorter. What is state-of-the-art was before 50 years, now is perhaps 1 year. Then it's a lifelong education, not only of university studies students, but also existing medical staff. We will have a very good internet-based business in providing content and curriculum for such training in the education center, a rapidly growing area as well. Our philosophy of shareholders, I said before, is if you have happy customers, happy employees are needed to have the happy customers. A good position in growing markets, and especially if the market has to grow by external force.
Reasonable cost control and perseverance, you need to be a little stubborn at times, then shareholders will be happy. I think we have proved that over the years, and we try to continue proving it. That leads us to the end, our upcoming financial report and the AGM is now decided. The nine-month interim report will be March 9th, 2022. The year-end report will be June 3rd, 2022. Our annual general meeting will hopefully, and the planning is that we will have it as a real-life event. Now these virtual meetings are not, It's not as nice as a real meeting, so the planning is to have a meeting in Linköping, as we have done historically, September 8th, 2022. I will remind you that your feedback on these presentations is important.
Please let us know what you think. We try to adapt them to serve the needs of information from you shareholders and people who follow us on the net. Send email to info.investor@sectra.com if you have any comments or any suggestions to improve these presentations. We open up for the questions. You can also use the chat function. Helena will read questions to me and to Mats, and we will reply here.
Yes. I will start with inviting our financial analyst, Karl Norén from Danske Bank, to start asking questions. You are welcome to unmute your microphone. Are you there, Karl? Okay, we will start with one question from the chat, and the question is, "How will you present numbers during the transition period from license to SaaS? It would be helpful to have some sort of measure of underlying performance as reported numbers will obviously be affected negatively.
We are currently reporting, since quarter two back, recurring revenue in a way we didn't do before. We are working on actually making that even more fine-grained, so you can see in detail how we proceed, and we look forward to making this report even more detailed in the future. Right now, you have to look at the recurring revenue figures.
I will go on to read some questions from Kristofer Liljeberg at Carnegie. The first question is, "Can you please explain the sequentially higher gross margin in Q2? Is it explained by a low number of new installations?
I would say, if I may take that one, primarily it's due to the significantly lower proportion of hardware and third-party content in the second quarter. It's below 8% compared with some 17% in the corresponding second quarter last year.
The next question is, "When commenting the growth for the first six months of the year in the report, it mentioned that growth was supported by early deliveries. Does this imply growth will be lower in second half than in first half?
That's a question we cannot reply to. We do not do forecast at Sectra, so it's up to every analyst to interpret this themselves.
The next question is, "What was the organic figure for rolling 12-month order growth?
The total order intake, we do not separate organic or otherwise, is SEK 2.150 billion compared with SEK 2.652 billion for the last full financial years. That's on the level we report this.
Does operating cost in Q2 reflect business back to normal, or should we expect cost to continue increase sequentially?
We will increase costs, still. All of the world is not open yet. Costs will be expected to increase a bit higher, but however, we don't think it will come back to pre-pandemic levels.
Okay, then we'll do a new try with Karl Norén. If you can unmute now.
Yes, can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
Great. I have a couple of questions, but if we start off with Secure Communications, I was wondering if you can comment anything on the weaker development here in Q2. Is it only the pandemic, you would say? And when do you expect net sales to recover back? And any comments on the order intake would be helpful.
It's mainly due to the pandemic, because, as we said, the national security area where we deliver these secret level devices. If we can't go to the customer, we can neither sell nor deliver our products. It's not then like in medical we can both sell and deliver over the network. It's not possible. You're not allowed to even discuss this over Teams, for instance. After a while the pandemic decreases, we expect the order intake to rebound, and then of course it takes a little more time after order intake until you get revenue out of it. We do expect an improvement when the pandemic lockdowns go away.
Okay. Maybe a question on the order intake in the IT imaging. I'm just wondering, when you move, as you say now, more into software as a service and pay-per-use and with Sectra One, can you just tell us a bit more on how we should think about the order book? Will that change anything of how you report the order intake, or will it be exactly the same as before?
Very often, customer, it's a little different in different countries. If we take the U.S., which is currently our largest market, also where we're growing. I will respond to that first. We normally get a fixed order when they guarantee to buy everything for us for a certain number of years in these orders. Now of course, the order in reality is longer because it's also the order beyond this initial four or five years if the customers are happy. They will stay with us, but that's not visible in the order intake. It's not a guaranteed order. Revenue recognition unfortunately varies quite a bit.
If it's something where we're responsible for the entire delivery, we can count this up front as a you know, future income, and we can count that as revenue and profit up front, though it's spread out cash flow-wise over several years. Where if it's not completely depending on us, we need to take the revenue and profit each year by year. The order will be the same, but the outcome and revenue will be different. This is very unfortunate. We wish it was not the case, but that's an IFRS problem that we have to live with.
Okay. A question on the number of exams in your larger markets, in your systems. You said that you have seen quite nice growth there, I think I heard. Can you say anything on how the recovery is looking? I guess the U.S. is back to normal almost, but how is it looking in Europe and other markets?
The U.S. is not back to normal, but it's interesting that this area of the market has been back, is more or less normal. It shows that the consolidation, hospital, et cetera, because of the financial strains of U.S. healthcare, most of the income for U.S. hospitals come from recurring or from elective procedures. When you take that out, there's a massive impact. That has increased the rate of consolidation in the U.S. We don't see a large effect in the U.S., but U.S. is far from back to normal, as for the pandemic goes. In Europe, it's very, very different in different countries. As you know, I mean, Austria has a lockdown again. Germany is in between somewhere. The U.K. has as well introduced new restrictions, so has even Sweden.
It goes a little up and down. We do see distancing going on in Europe as well. Exactly what happens now with the Omicron mutation, we have no clue, to be frank, as I think no one else has. Otherwise, you need to be prepared and be aware that the predictability of the market is more difficult than is normal.
Yes. Thank you. This is the last one. You stated now on the recurring revenue side that this could impact revenue growth or will impact revenue growth. Could it be that it will be hard for you to reach your financial target of growing your EBIT with above 15% per year during this transition time, or do you still see that Sectra should be able to to reach these targets?
Well, we haven't changed that target, neither up or down. You could consider that being above it for many times, it could be a reason up. It will be impacted to some part by this. Long term, we think it will be better than if we didn't do the changes of software as a service. We are not, we are still having that target and there is no big difference in our predictions of being able to reach it. I cannot give predictions any more than that.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. I see no further questions through the live event, but we have a number of questions that we have received by email before this meeting. The first one I think is actually the one you answered right now. The financial targets are by far exceeded quarter after quarter and year after year. Are you having any discussion about updating the targets?
Of course, there is such discussions. I've said before, but we are in a transition that we think, as all other software markets are doing the same thing, as long term is good for both customers and vendor, which is kind of the best things you can have. It may affect these figures. We don't know yet. We are right now. The board has not decided to change them for the time being.
The margins were good in the first quarter, which I interpret was due to a higher percentage of sales of software. Will the higher operating margins as well as the share of software of total sales stay at current levels also in the future?
We cannot comment on that. We see with going into the cloud that the hardware content will decrease, but we cannot say how fast and how that will come about.
The next question is, the Group's cash and cash equivalents is large, and the cash flow is good, while the share redemption amount to shareholders is kept the same. Have you discussed a revision of the dividend policy, for example, that a certain percentage of earnings to be distributed?
A thing I cannot comment upon. It's a discussion, of course, held in the board for every new year. The current level is what we kept for several years.
The next question, who are your main competitors?
Of course, that's very, very different in the different areas. We have also a situation where it varies between countries. In the U.S., there are a couple of competitors that are good. We have a company called Change Healthcare. We have the large companies like Philips, who acquired a company called Carestream. We have a company called Visage Imaging that we compete with in the higher end, but only in the U.S., but we are international. In Europe, there are very often local players in the local markets, and in different places in DACH. In Germany, for instance, from what we see in the U.K., etc.
The final questions, when you look at the future, how much demand do you see for your products and why?
As we said before, we have by intent and planning decided to work in markets where the market itself will grow by external force. There is no way that cybersecurity will not grow. It has to grow because we're getting more and more digitized in the society, and the cybercrime is going up. The people working against that cybercrime, that of course will increase the market. We need to keep or increase our market share in that growing market. In medical, it's mainly the situation that we need to curb or limit the growth of healthcare expenditure as percentage of GDP in the entire world. It cannot continue. These derivatives of these curves have to be kind of leveled off. We can't use all resources available on the planet to healthcare.
That change will require a lot of improvements, efficiency in workflows, and how you work with healthcare. That's also a market that has to grow by external force. Mainly, the main impact of that external force is actually the demographics, where people get older and older all over the world, and old people have more disease, and you need to work with that.
Okay, that was the last question.
All right. Thank you very much for your questions. Please also give feedback on the way we do this now. We have done it over Teams, and we of course would like to know if it's better or worse or the same as we've done before. We thank you very much for today, and looking forward to hear you again in quarter three. Goodbye.