So we're really happy to present the next presenter, Vickram Vathulya, CEO of Sivers Semiconductors. We welcome. We're also happy to present Heine Thorsgaard, the newly appointed CFO. You are actually starting today, here on the first row. So we welcome, both of you. Vickram, the floor is yours.
Thanks, Arjan. Thanks, everybody, for spending time with us today. I'm Vickram, CEO of Sivers. We're going to talk about how this company is unlocking growth in photonics and wireless, so the investment thesis in Sivers Semiconductors. In Europe, you have a unique opportunity with one company, a semiconductors company, that is capitalizing on the two hottest secular trends in the market. I've been in the industry for 26 years, and I've seen many trends, but these two are red hot right now, and not just that, we have two high-impact mission-critical technologies to make these trends happen. Okay. The two businesses we are in are wireless and photonics, and the company is on a growth trajectory now, and our growth is also going to come in two waves. The first wave is a wireless business that continues to grow.
Then, in a couple of years, we expect our photonics business. We are in the business of building lasers. So our photonics business is lasers. And that's going to come in a couple of years from now. So two layers of growth built one upon another. And that creates a longer-term value for the company and the shareholders. And from where we are at the end of last year, we see an opportunity to go 3-4x in terms of our top line in the next 4-5 years. And if you look at the semiconductor industry multiples, that's a pretty sizable opportunity for growth in front of us. So the two long-term secular trends, one of them is AI acceleration. I'm sure, no doubt, we all hear about AI almost on a daily basis today.
But the need for computing power keeps increasing to learn more, to learn faster in this AI space, and that we see not going away for a couple of decades. The other one is people are moving to higher and higher frequencies for communication, for threat mitigation, for satellite communication systems, because the lower frequencies are either getting exhausted or the higher frequencies offer certain benefits for these markets. That, again, is a trend that's happening for the next couple of decades, so AI acceleration and millimeter wave adoption, which is very high frequency, both are long-standing trends, and they're happening in multiple markets, but we are a small company. We can't do too many things, so we brought a lot of focus to our business. We are focused on two momentum markets.
By momentum markets, I mean where the market's actually having the funding and the momentum to grow. So all we need to do is make sure our technology is well placed with our customers. Those two markets are AI data centers for our lasers and satellite communications for our wireless. We'll talk more about this. Let's first take one of those markets that's AI data centers. Why is this interesting? As you know, to learn faster in the AI space, the compute power keeps going up. The NVIDIAs of the world that you might have heard about, the AMDs of the world, they continue to put out more and more powerful computing chipsets. But the power grid is getting stressed.
In fact, the joke is to put out a very powerful AI data center in the future, you've got to ship a small nuclear power plant right next to it to power the data center, and so there's this big push towards how can you make these data centers more energy efficient?, and that's where an opportunity is created for technology from Sivers, and we'll talk about that, so if you look within a data center, there's a lot of interconnection between these computing chipsets. Within the data center, most of this interconnection is by copper, and some of it is by optical. The problem is not that the compute chipsets are not there, but the interconnects are now slowing them down because copper doesn't have the same bandwidth as optical, and additionally, copper heats up, so it causes a lot more power burden on the data center.
There's a push for the industry and from the industry to make more of the connections inside a data center move towards optical than even today. Okay. And you can see on the right side, I'm sorry, on the left side, the hyperscalers, and by that I mean the Amazons, the Googles, the Microsofts, the Metas, are pouring in hundreds of billions of dollars to build out this infrastructure. And they've all said this power consumption problem needs to be solved. And on the right side, you can see already outside the data center, connecting data centers has moved to optical. And there's a good amount of optical that's come into the data center also. But within each rack inside a data center of servers, there's still a lot of copper. And even between computing racks, there's still a lot of copper.
And so this push is what's happening now. This remaining piece where there's a lot of volume needs to convert from copper to optical. Okay. So that's all great. But where does Sivers come in? Well, when the bandwidths go above 800 gigasamples per second, which means things are getting faster and faster and faster, they need higher precision lasers that can put out different power levels and in different formats. And that's our value proposition, our technology value proposition compared to the competition. And by delivering this with a very strong manufacturing partner in Taiwan, which is WIN Semiconductors, we are able to drive the type of economies of scale to build these light sources and lasers that's going to be important for these increased volumes in the future. Okay. So there is competition, but that's our value proposition to take our share of this market.
And our share can come in two forms. One is today's pluggable transceivers, which is the way optical happens inside the data center. There's a huge shortage in lasers because of all these builds that are going on. It offers us that entry opportunity in. And then with our technology, we can build market share. The ultimate future is something called co-packaged optics, where almost all the optics starts getting in the same package as the computing chipset or the switch chipset, which only leaves the lasers out. The lasers can't be inside the same packages because they have to be in a cool place. And those are lasers we can supply as well. So between both the pluggable market, which exists today, and the co-packaged optics model of the future, Sivers lasers have a value proposition that'll stay. Okay.
That was on the AI data center and why our technology is making an impact. And then the other one is satellite communications, which is our other focus market for our wireless business. So here, many years ago, satellite communications was for two main purposes. One was defense and government purposes. And the other was bringing video to your homes using DirecTV or digital satellite TV. But now what's happened is cellular infrastructure, cellular networks are not able to provide the high bandwidths needed for all the things that we use it for. And there's an increased reliance on SatCom, satellite communications to bring ubiquitous broadband. If you look up at the sky, it's insane how many networks are up in the sky from different operators. But there's a big ecosystem challenge. None of these operators have equipment that's interoperable.
So if you have something up there from Inmarsat versus something from Telesat, the ground equipment can't use both networks. They're either built for one or the other. So there's a lot of inefficiency in the satellite networks today in the world. Additionally, you must have seen SpaceX launching what they call small satellites. Right? In the past, it used to be big satellites up further in the sky. These small satellites are lower in the sky and more in number. But ground equipment can only talk to the small satellites. They can't talk to the large satellites. So again, there's a lot of spectral inefficiency in the infrastructure. Thirdly, defense satellites and defense networks can't leverage commercial, and commercial can't leverage defense. So this is a huge problem because we don't want to keep cluttering up space with more and more equipment that don't talk to each other.
So what this means is a tremendous amount of dollars are being poured in to upgrade the ground terminals, which means what's on a jeep, what's on a ship, what's on a plane. Those equipment now need to be upgraded to make more use of all the satellites in the sky. Okay. That presents Sivers the opportunity, and we'll go into why. So as I said, more satellites up in the sky. The need from the market is up there. We call it multi-orbit, which means something on the ground should be equally able to access a low Earth small satellite to something further up in the sky, which means you need to have the range to talk to any of these satellites. That's called multi-orbit. Multi-band means if you look at all the networks in the sky, they're operating in different frequency bands.
So they want ground terminal to have multi-band capability where it can switch to the frequency band for a given network without having to switch out ground terminal equipment. So that's called multi-band. And then the third one is multi-beam. With more small satellites, you can quickly find a satellite, but it only gives you limited range. So you move a few kilometers, you've got to move to the next small satellite for coverage. And they want you to connect to the new satellite before you break the link with the old satellite so that you don't lose, you don't get spotty coverage. So that means you need to support multiple beams. I should hold this beam before I move to the next and then kill this beam. That is called multi-beam. So multi-orbit, multi-band, multi-beam is the new age ground terminal. Okay.
Within that, we at Sivers divide ground terminals into three categories: defense terminals, commercial and enterprise terminals, and consumer terminals. Consumer terminals are like the Starlink boxes maybe some of you have at home, a $300 box that loses money. We are not interested in that space. We are interested in defense and commercial enterprise where our value proposition is strong and we can actually make profits. Okay. Again, why Sivers wireless for those terminals? We offer three to ten times better range performance than the competition, which is important because they won't be able to access any satellite in the sky. Number two, our designs are very compact and lightweight because these terminals are also becoming very mobile. They don't have the same weight budgets and power budgets of the past.
Our solutions offer high energy efficient transmission so we can operate on the limited power budgets. Because we've used these high frequencies, they're smaller, compact, and lighter weight too. That's another thing they like. Most importantly, we offer multi-beam, multi-orbit, multi-band capability ahead of the competition. That's why we are in a lot of the conversations with our potential customers on the next generation of ground terminals. Additionally, for those of you who might have seen some of these ground terminals, you would have seen big dish-shaped antennas that mechanically move to follow the satellites in the sky. That's a thing of the past. Things have moved to electronic antenna arrays where you use electronics to move and find the right satellite. For that, you need these antenna array designs.
Sivers can not only do the RF products for the ground terminal. We can also do the antenna designs. Here you see the black squares. Those are our RF chips. And then behind them are actually the antenna arrays also. By doing that, we make life simpler for our customers because we now not only sell chips, but we sell subsystems and we are moving up the value chain. We're becoming a lot more important for our customers who are out to build the next generation of ground terminals. Okay. Now that we have started demonstrating these technologies and actually have gone into production with a couple of our customers, especially on the wireless side, our pipeline, which means our customer opportunity pipeline momentum is increasing. We are seeing a lot more branded names coming in to engage with us.
So early on, as a small company, we had innovative customers, but there are smaller, lesser well-known customers that have partnered with us. But now we are seeing the likes of Intelsat and other big companies like Raytheon and BAE Systems who are also starting to work with us. So that gives us a lot of confidence that we have the right technologies on both sides to start moving from early stage smaller customer engagements to scaling up our business operations. I also want to give you an idea of the sizes of these types of opportunities, okay? And I tried to give you a smattering here. So the one on the right here is an existing customer, and their pipeline is expanding in satellite communications. They support defense and commercial. Each terminal they sell is about $100,000-$200,000, inside which we have $5,000-$10,000 worth of content.
So if you look through a socket lifetime opportunity from just the pipeline they have, that itself could be $25 to $50 million for us over the next four to five years. And that's an existing customer. On the left side, you see a customer that's another existing customer, but whose plans to roll out product is from later next year onwards. That is for fixed wireless access for broadband. And that customer's opportunity is selling a box that's more of a $200-$300 box. And we could get $20-$30 of content inside every box. That could be a $20 to $40 million opportunity through its rollout. For those of you who are following Europe, Europe wants to modernize the satellite constellations. There's a big satellite constellation program that's coming up over the next couple of years.
We are right in the middle of conversations with those customers who want to build the ground terminals for that space modernization program in Europe. And there again, you can see $30,000-$40,000 systems. We got several thousand dollars of potential content in there. That could be $30 million to $60 million once they start deploying. So the idea of this is not that these are one opportunities. This is how the pipeline develops, and these are material volumes and material dollars that add to the top line of the company. And we are right in the mix of making many of these concrete for the future. That's on the wireless side. And the same way to think about our AI data centers. We are working with strategic partners to enable the ultimate move from copper to optical, which is co-packaged optics.
And then we are also working to get ourselves into the optics that exist today inside the data centers on the pluggable transceiver side. We are growing revenues. And more importantly, on the left side, you can see we are growing product revenues. That is an important metric for this company as we transform from an engineering revenues company to a product company. You can see that light blue bar was up to SEK 80 million last year. And we are halfway into this year, and already we are clipping at a rate that's better than that for fiscal 2025. On the right-hand side, you can see we continue to make strides in our profitability. And our aim is to basically get to Adjusted EBITDA breakeven sometime in 2026 and then build profitability beyond that. Okay. Nothing happens without a pretty strong team.
And I continue to take advantage of the talent we have in-house with a lot of our technology CTOs. But I've also brought in some new talent. We have Heine here, who's our new CFO from today onwards. Brought in. We also need to raise the awareness of our brand. So I brought in a Chief Marketing Officer, Sander. And our MD of the Lasers business unit is a seasoned veteran from very successful semiconductor companies in the industry. Okay. So we're beefing up this team. We've got excellent technology talent. And now we need to drive towards the next levels of expanding our reach, which is mainly sales and application engineering, we need to build out and support our customers. The last slide I want to leave you with is there's a market cap expansion opportunity here.
In semiconductors, the valuation to a company is mainly driven by the gross margins of the business and the growth rates of the business. Those are the two things that matter the most in the semiconductor industry. They understand that small caps might be working towards strengthening their balance sheets, etc., but these are the two main things. Okay. On the right side is a list of comparables in the optical space and the RF space. I've made it simpler on the left side where I track what are the margins of the businesses, what are the growth rates in the next two years, and what are the multiples they're getting in the market. Today, Sivers is getting about a 3.5x-4x multiple on our revenue from last year. They're already growing.
Our margins are already trending towards the 40% piece, heading towards 50% plus in the next couple of years. We are going to be in the right two sides of the growth column. We should be commanding better multiples. There's a part of it that is also a market awareness issue on what are the technologies we're bringing and how are we building our momentum. One company you'll see on both sides of this is a company called MACOM. Some of you may have heard about them, but they also are in RF, which is wireless, and photonics. They get an 8.2x multiple today on their revenues. They sit here at 10%-20% growth rates and at 50% plus margins. That's the value you could unlock even from where we are today within the next couple of years.
We can even aim towards the top right corner as we have ambitions to deliver CAGRs in the 25%-30% range over the long term and with the margin model better than 50%. So for somebody looking at the company right now, whether it's an insider in the company or a potential investor, given the 2X compression we see and the ability to drive revenue three to 4X in the next five years, you're talking about an 8X return on investment from today's dollar. That's the opportunity we want to go and execute to. Let me take a pause. Thanks for spending the time. It's time for questions. Happy to take them. Thank you, Vickram. To start with, I mean, the structural trend for energy saving needs, I think, is quite well debated.
You explained a little bit what your products are doing in the wireless area. What are your photonics products actually doing that is so important? And how do you differentiate from competition here? Right. So the way I want people to think about our photonics or lasers business is we have an existing market called pluggables, which you will find inside a data center today that is serviced by others. I'm not yet in that. And that pluggables has been going steadily up 100 gig, 200 gigabits per second, 400 gigabits per second, up to 800 and beyond. But they are starting to hit a challenge at 800 gigs and beyond where they're running out of supply capacity of the traditional types of lasers, which is called externally modulated lasers. And so the market has to move to continuous wave lasers beyond that.
We are leaders in continuous wave lasers in terms of our technology. It gives us an opportunity to intersect an existing market, which is pluggables, with continuous wave lasers. With WIN Semiconductors as our partner, we have the capacity to supply the shortage also. Think of our entry into pluggables as address a supply gap, but then expand with our differentiation with continuous wave lasers. When it comes to the other piece of photonics, which is co-packaged optics, our ability to drive different power levels in array formats, that is going to be needed for economies of scale. Think of those as our two dimensions of addressing our potential in photonics. Okay. Thank you. In business, you know, wireless, you have traveled much further in terms of commercialization. You have a much higher share of product revenues relative to the NRE revenues.
Can you explain what was it that took you to this position that you actually have reached a commercial breakthrough? So again, if you go back in the past, wireless has attempted to commercialize in a variety of markets. And frankly, there have been challenges. One area where we spent a lot of effort in the past was in 5G cellular infrastructure. But 5G CapEx has been notorious and has focused on the lower frequency bands for deployment and didn't take the risk to go develop the higher frequency products. So what we have done now is we said, let's not choose markets just because they could be appealing. Let's choose markets that have momentum, which means the market actually has the dollars to put in to commercialize something. So that's why we put 80% of our focus on SatCom.
And what we find with SatCom is I don't have to convince the market they need this technology. It's more about convincing my customer they need my technology. And that to me is a better part of the deal than trying to make a market happen, but rather tell my customer, you've got the right solution. So that's what we did now with, for example, All.Space. We knew the market needed it. We knew our customer liked our technology. We stayed focused on supporting them. And now we are shipping in volume. So it's customer selection behind a momentum market. That's what's helped us. And that's what we're trying to do with optics also now, trying to see, okay, where is the momentum? The momentum is there. Now, how do we correctly align our technology to the correct customers?
Okay. Thank you very much, Vickram.
Thank you. Thanks, everybody.