Good morning, and welcome to this webcast for second quarter 2023. My name is Anders Storm, and I am the Group CEO of Sivers. I'm going to take you through the numbers and updates. First of all, we have had a really good growth this year, 91% year to date, and we're also confirming our outlook for 100% this year and also positive EBITDA second half. This is due to strong growth in general, strong order intake, and orders basically in all verticals, which is very, very positive. This is actually the third quarter in a row we have extremely good growth. I think we've grown about almost 100% or 97% the last three quarters and sold over SEK 150 million this three last quarters as well. That is really good.
As I think I stated in November 2022 in a Redeye event, an after-work event in Gothenburg, that we're going to see our five most sort of best quarters ever for the company, and now we've fulfilled three of those quarters, and we're very confident that the coming three quarters or coming two quarters also going to be very strong. Net sales amounted to $45 million, 69% growth. We've had a very important $1.3 million order for optical sensing for LiDAR in the quarter from a U.S.-based customer. We also started a very important project to make sure that we can sort of grow our wafer production. We've also had an important message about the Indian market together with Intel and WiSig at the G20 event.
We're also getting sort of grants, both in Europe and in the U.S., where we got a very important DARPA grant, and which was sort of one of the main things to acquire MixComm at that point. We also secured SEK 150 million direct share issue from a very prominent institutional investors in this quarter, as well as we've sold SEK 11 million to our sort of most famous Fortune 100 and shipped 30,000 chips to them also in this quarter. We also got an important order from Ayar Labs, which is our partner in the future, really hot Optical I/O area for SEK 11 million, and this is sort of to get to the market, and we'll talk more about that.
All in all, over the last 10 months, we actually had an order intake, just sort of published orders, about SEK 270 million, and I'll talk about why I say published here as well. If we look at these orders, there is among all these different areas, great orders. I mean, we are having orders within the SATCOM areas. We are having orders within LiDAR, we're having orders within our consumer electronics areas and so forth. It's a lot of good news and really good momentum, and we're seeing even a stronger momentum and a sort of a great pipeline for the second half of this year, also for new orders coming in.
Just to remember as well, we, we don't do sort of an order book, but, but, it's of course, easy to, to summarize the, the number of PRs we do, because in the order book, there is also, you know, smaller orders, for 5G and other things, which is sort of everything below, normally 5% of the yearly net sales. We don't really press release all orders. Remember that. The order book is actually bigger than the SEK 270 overall. We are confirming the outlook for 2023, and as we stated already in the Q4, interim report, we will see sort of a forecast with at least 100% growth for the year.
It will vary between quarters, which is sort of inherent what's happening in companies like this, where we have product orders versus service orders, that is how it is. Still, we're seeing a very positive year here. Also seeing achieving with the heavy growth in the second half, if you extrapolate this, we will see, you know, SEK 162 million minimum in the second half here in sales, which will also bring us to a positive adjusted EBITDA for the second half, which is extremely important, of course. Then again, I mean, there was a beamformer order, for example, that was moved between quarters, and it could be sort of days or so forth, that sort of moves orders in between quarters.
Overall, almost 70% growth in the quarter. Adjusted EBITDA is strong, and it's actually stronger than you can see here, even if we plus, it's actually we've reduced the R&D capitalization by SEK 11 million. If you compare apples to apples, we're actually much stronger here if you add those SEK 11 million to, to last year's sort of, adjusted EBITDA, in the sense that, we are now getting fully paid by the customers rather than doing R&D capitalization and developing our own IP. We're now getting paid to develop our IP, which is a huge step forward for the company, which has been sort of happening over the last year a lot.
Also improving our EBIT quite a lot, and of course, effects, here in sales and increasing sales going forward will improve all of these numbers as well. Looking at the segments, Q2, wireless, really strong quarter, 128%. Photonics also growing quite good now, which is 33%. As we stated before, we are, focusing quite heavily now on the, due to the macroeconomics, on North America and Europe, more or less 50/50 there. The same thing actually for the business units, we're delivering 50/50 of the sales this quarter, which is really one of the main points for the business here, that we have a really strong growth in both businesses, as well as we're bringing in new customers.
We also have, you know, sales from several different verticals, which is sort of securing a more stable order value, order intake, as well as stable growth, as we now have shown three quarters in a row and expect to deliver on in the future as well. Looking at that, sort of stable growth, SEK 104 million sales, almost double the sales then for the first half of this year. Here as well, improving adjusted EBITDA. Same thing here. We have, as you can see, reduced R&D capitalization with over SEK 20 million. If you extrapolate that, we're actually improving, you know, the results really good here. And you know, you can see in that sense, the gross margin affecting this as well when we don't capitalize things the same way.
Here you can see, you know, what's happened since 2016 after the pandemic now, we are really seeing a very positive growth, 46% 2022, and now 100% 2023. If we look at sort of the key market metrics, what has the company been doing over these years? It's, it's good to iterate what we actually been spending and doing here. You know, we were on Spotlight in 2016. We're now at Mid Cap Stockholm, and we have high hopes to move forward in that in the future. We've increased the number of shareholders from 1,600 to over 22,000. We had no institutional investors in 2016.
Now we have 21% of the company. I'm going to talk more about that. Market cap has increased from SEK 0.2 billion-SEK 1.6 billion . Revenue gone from about SEK 18 million-SEK 266 million plus this year. We think that all the key metrics is pointing in the right direction and will keep on pointing in the right direction in this journey we're on. Looking a bit more closely into things behind all of the significant events in Q2. First of all, as I mentioned, the LiDAR order, the photonics capacity, the Indian market, the different grants we've got, and so forth. Then, of course, the Fortune 100, what's, what's going on there?
First of all, if we look at the, the photonics order, that is the customer that we got the first order in 2021 for chips and, and development of chips. This customer have now sort of decided to get to the next phase, where we sort of qualify and make the chips ready for mass production. And that will sort of happen in the second half of next year, I would say. And this is very advanced arrays that is used for LiDAR, LiDAR. Really good that this sort of customer is now moving in this direction, and we have a very good pipeline of other customers in this LiDAR area as well. This is just sort of the start in that sense with our photonics business.
If we look at the capacity, I mean, there's been a lot of discussions, how and what we need to do to be able to support both our Optical I/O stuff in the future, but also the Fortune 100. To be sure, because these are long processes, we need to sort of start these processes. Therefore, we have and we are looking at three different paths. I've been over traveling in the U.S. discussing these kind of things with both investors and possible partners here.
One, of course, is to build a greenfield fab and all of that, which is sort of a long project, acquire and fix sort of a fab in some way where there's already our capacity and build out, and, of course, buying capacity from a third party, which is sort of maybe not the preferred path, but, but, we, we would possibly sort of acquire and fix, which is sort of the most sort of, capital- less capital-intensive, I think, in that sense. There is absolutely the right time to do this now. In the end, since we are very U.S. and European centric, we actually have a, you know, a big support from the different CHIPS Act that are coming out with massive amounts of money.
We think that this is really a good timing, need to be investing and looking to invest in this kind of production capacity. talking about investments, these are the sort of new funding we got, SEK 150 million in a direct share issue from major institutions. I'm really happy to see support from a multiple Swedish National Pension Funds, AP2, AP3, AP4. Cicero Fonder was also new, and Serpentine Ventures from Switzerland, also new investor. on top of that, of course, we had support from AMF, Swedbank, Robur, and other funds as well. in this sort of funding climate has been difficult for many companies. We were able to actually get this funding and due to have really strong quarters and also strong outlook, I would say.
We also secured a refinancings of loans, which is sort of have paid back SEK 50 million now to the Modelio loan that we have, and all of that is sort of sorted out to continue our growth journey. To give you some flavor on, on the, on the funding base, I mean, if we look at sort of we have mostly long only funding when it comes to institutional investors now, as I mentioned, you know, AP2, AP3, AP4, AMF, all sort of put insurance and pension funds, Swedbank, Cicero, and others. With this sort of new capital coming in, we also sort of increased the capital and the management by 3x, actually. The funding base has really grown.
Also, part of this is, of course, to look at an even stronger funding base in the U.S. now, and that's partly where I've been doing and traveling around, meeting institutional investors and others in this sense. If we look at the Fortune 100, which has been a very important part of it, we are now up to $163 million in NRE funding over these 4+ years. We are progressing really well, another $11 million in this quarter, and also delivered the 30,000 chips to the qualification and system test. In total, this year, we have got $22 million, which is sort of the most we got so far in the first half and in one year.
Um, and as I mentioned, $163 million plus, uh, including the deliveries now. Uh, as, as I mentioned to before, the, the thousand wafers per week is part of, you know, 50 million chipsets per year sales that we can do, which translates into sort of a sales about $120 million a year. Uh, so, so that's why we're looking at capacity, and, and we are waiting, uh, to sort of getting feedback on the qualification. No update yet. We just delivered the chips, but we are, uh, expecting to get numbers and, and, and feedback during this year, of course, uh, on, on where to go next here. If we look at the significant events of the Q2, there's also been, just after the quarter closed, we got the Ayar Labs order in, which is, uh, I'm going to talk a lot about.
The DARPA funding is, of course, an important piece here. Just this week, we got another SATCOM project to develop an antenna solution, which from a really large top-tier SATCOM network provider. We also got an industry veteran from former GlobalFoundries guy, Bami Bastani, joining Sivers as a strategic advisor for sort of further strengthening our business, especially in the U.S.. That's really a lot of good news coming in even after the quarter closed. Ayar Labs, as I mentioned, this is a very important project.
This is one of the really big growth markets for the future and, and, and a market that is really, changing how people would use sort of computers for generative AI in the future and, and really supporting the, the, how AI will sort of grow in the next phase. This is the second and sort of last step before volume production. Qualification, everything. We this year, but, on top of this, this sales, but also real volumes, starting them from end of the year, a bit slow, but then sort of growing over the years where the bigger volumes coming in a bit later. What is it like?
How, how is this sort of affecting, you know, the generation of AI solutions, and, and why is this used for, in the AI ecosystem? Why are we talking about this? Basically, it's quite hard to understand the sort of, how long, how long this ecosystem is in the sense. Of course, we all know about ChatGPT, Bard, and all of the, the AI tools that coming up now that will change the world, and, and we already seen a lot of changes due to that. All of these guys, they're using cloud services like Azure from Microsoft, AWS, and, and, and Google Cloud and so forth.
In those clouds, you know, you have the Intel and the Hewlett-Packard and the NVIDIA, and the AMD, and the IBM of the world, where they sort of provide, the GPUs and CPUs and all of that to, to sort of support this sort of big clusters that is really, data-intensive to do all of this. All of this is sort of coming to, to, sort of, a wall when it comes to the Moore's Law and so forth. It is really important to, to sort of be able to reduce both the, the latency, but also, the, the power in, in these things. It gets hotter and hotter, and more and more power is used.
Therefore, there has been developed over the last couple of years and over, I think, seven, eight years, there needs to be solution. Ayar Labs, Lightmatter, and others, and the big vendors are now looking to go from Electrical I/O into Optical I/O. This Optical I/O is sort of reducing electricity by 90%, increasing the speeds by, I would say, in the first generation, about 10x. You know, going from today's sort of 1 Tb or whatever, or, or, yeah, 800-900 Gb per second to about 8 Tb per second, and we already demoed 4 Tb per second.
There are sort of, the only thing that can solve this is sort of the light sources on the chip that Sivers develops, and we're really first in this, I would say, in many cases, in having this, and it's only been demoed by Sivers and together with Ayar so far. Lumentum and MACOM are other companies that are doing this as part of the ecosystem as well, which is really good to know that there's more companies doing this as well. On that, so now the generation of AI is sort of, everybody's talking about that. Within the coming two years, everybody is saying that they need this kind of solution.
We have demoed 4 Tb already, and we're doing that together with GlobalFoundries, and Ayar Labs, and we'll keep on sort of working on getting this now also to the 8 Tb, which is the sort of the Holy Grail to do 10x for the next generation here, and that's part of the project we're working on. Actually, Sivers provides the lasers that will sort of flip chip straight on to the GlobalFoundries silicon platform, and that's then used by Ayar Labs. If we look at this, 90% light, 1,000 x the speed, depends how you count. We'll say, you know, 10x now for the high-speed computers, you actually will send light between the GPUs and CPUs, as you can see here.
It's sort of a groundbreaking technology that is sort of advancing the Moore's Law and really fixing the issues with getting this to the next step. We're very happy, and this is an extremely important project for us to be part of, and we are the sort of first customer or first supplier that Ayar Labs is signing up to, to deliver this for the future and in volumes. It's not just Ayar Labs who's doing this. I mean, there is many more, and there's been funding into many companies here, over $400 million over the last 12 months. There's over $700 million over the last sort of years when it comes to this.
Ayar Labs has recently finalized the second part of the C round, which is now totaling $155 million, and that's coming from companies like NVIDIA, Intel, HP, and others, also being customers at the same time. There is three other companies who recently together have raised about $250 million, and Sivers is sort of one of the few who have supplies here, and we are sort of talking and working and have small orders also from most of these companies. We have a great progress and a very good place in the ecosystem to be part of this journey.
The DARPA award is of course very good to have and be part of this and getting into a market and the sort of U.S. defense industry via like the MixComm team close to this now, and this is just a start. We foresee more of this, and also, you know, in connection to other sort of CHIPS Act programs and so forth. All of this revenue will be recognized in this year. Also, the new customer coming in, well, might had some questions around this customer. It is a new customer. We haven't worked with them before, but they've been part of the ecosystem where we've been working. They are a very large SATCOM company. They own satellites.
Revenue will be recognized, second half this year and, and in Q1 2024. This is sort of a electronically steerable phased array that we design, and we use our own beamformers into that as well. This is a very interesting project, and of course, in the long term, these panels will be integrated into a terminal vendor partner to this satellite company and then be part of, of, sort of overall, services and solutions here. This will also hopefully then create volumes and sales in mass production later on. That's sort of summarizing the Q2 numbers, but I also want to give you an update in general where we stand in the company with respect to a lot of different things. I can't go through all customers.
I get a lot of requests on customers, but I'm sort of this... Okay, yeah, just one moment. I'm getting some feedback here that things are, It seems like the picture are not showing still. Let me see. Can you write in the, in the comment section if there is any if you can see the slides now? It seems like they are, have been stuck on one page, according to someone who told me. Let me see here. Let me see what's sort of, if there is any comments or... Yeah, it seems to be more people who've seen this. Unfortunately, I haven't... Okay. No slides. Okay. Let me see if I need to, if I can change this now and if we can see it. That's really unfortunate. Let's see. I don't know why it's not changing.
Okay, now can you see the slides now, hopefully? Okay. Okay. Yeah, sorry about that. My hard, my, my, hard drive and, and the whole PC have died before, so this is a new PC I haven't worked on before, so hopefully you can see everything now. Unfortunately, I, I don't really have time to go back and do everything again, but, but let's, let's move to, the numbers, for, for the next phase here. Really sorry about that. Let me see. Yeah, well, we can put up, the slides later on that, in a, in a way, and maybe overlay the, the sound on them. Okay. Sorry about that. My bad here. Okay. Let's go into other matters, and update on that.
So yeah, as, as we all know, I talked about that, now that we have, you know, we are making progress in all verticals, we are selling in all verticals. That's sort of, in some way, over expectation. Sometimes you, you do things in some verticals, but now we're selling in all of them, so that's really good. We are in a, in a lot of really interesting mega trends, especially, you know, SATCOM is, is really doing well right now. Our consumer electronics stuff, is also doing really well, as well as the LiDAR and, and, and of course, the Optical I/O with the silicon photonics stuff. We're really happy about all of, all of these areas.
To give you some flavor of why is this so, you know, important in the sense that all of these mega trends, why are they happening now? If we, we look at the silicon photonics revolution, it's actually based on one very important thing, is that we can now marry the silicon with the photonic lasers. That, that can be done based on patents and stuff that Sivers have created. As you can see in this slide, you see the small red things here, that is actually lasers that you can sort of put straight on to the silicon with the waveguide. That is a, it's a big revolution and a big change, where you can miniaturize, make it small enough, you know, to use it. That's where our strongest parts are.
For example, Microwave Journal said recently that consumer, indium phosphide is the Holy Grail for consumer electronics, for example. That is, you can put our indium phosphide stuff onto that. The other piece that is really strong within the wireless business is sort of high-frequency, steerable beamformers and antennas. Basically, you can now, and you need to do with the high frequency we have, you need to, to beam steer everything. You know, everything from moving cars to trains to satellites, they need to be followed basically now. The satellites are no longer, you know, on the stationary. They are actually flying in, in very high speeds over our heads. There's a lot of them. You need to connect to them.
Our main knowledge here, and the knowledge we also acquired from Columbia University with MixComm, is actually, you know, all about this. How do you do these things, and how do you do it good? Then on top of that, how do you sort of design those beamformers internally, of course, in the best way? That's where we've been really successful. This is sort of supporting all mega trends, and this is quite important to understand the relevance of these two parts that sort of driving Sivers technology. Looking at what is this sort of mega trends and how big are these markets? These markets are extremely large.
We, we estimate that the TAM, sort of the, the coming, 10 years to be over $10 billion. We have the SATCOM, which is a big part of that. Even the five year is gonna be big, and the photonics parts are also quite big here. Over $10 billion, which we are addressing, and we are scratching the surface now when it comes to... Sort of we have still a lot of services and NRE, but we're also seeing volume coming, and especially it's like in, in, in five years, SATCOM now moving a bit ahead, and, and we expect to see more in that area. Talking about sort of, 5G, the major Tier -1 system vendor, we are still working with them. We are progressing, somewhat delayed due to, as I mentioned before, array sizes and configuration.
They've done sort of the first prototype build. We expect a new prototype build soon, and we'll share that with the market as well when we get to that step. This is a exciting project, of course, to be part of and could really, you know, increase the 5G business as well when it comes to volumes, of course. Thorium Space, we got an order for about SEK 20 million in Q1. That progressing really, really well. We're running that. That's part of the revenue we're sharing right now. This is beamformers, chipsets for ground terminals, and also space deployments for the first time for us....
We are looking to close sort of the next qualification phase before the end of the year, hopefully, where we also sort of could add even more stuff into and increase our pipeline here as well. ALL.SPACE, of course, you know, they have delivered the first terminals already. We're seeing good movement in that. All projects also that we have with them is going great. We have the $15 million order for delivery in Q3. We expect even larger orders soon for products and beamformers for this, for the second half and early next year. We have a great cooperation also for new products here. We're really moving in a good direction here.
Looking at, you know, the, the flat panel arrays, and the growth in this market, that will be quite exponential over the coming years, because this technology, as I mentioned, with beamformers and beam steering, is sort of a very new thing. Overall, this is sort of a SEK 10 billion, or SEK 50 billion market, where we can see, you know, up to 20% of that could be the market with the customers we have, including ALL.SPACE and Thorium Space and the new customer as well. This is really exciting, and this will be part of the heavy growth going forward from 2024 and forward for Sivers in them areas, and which is going to be very important.
We also see quite, quite happy to see now movement in, in the sort of connectivity here. Again, beamformers, really important. Blue Wireless and EVO Rail are, are winning now train, and they're scratching the surface, you know, here. First of all, the Caltrain in, in, in California. We're seeing high-speed trains in Spain, which is so the first ones getting to this. We, we assume with all the work that EVO Rail putting in and hiring new people all over Europe, that at least in, in many of these countries, we'll see sort of a, a broader build-out coming in the next phase. We also have, you know, Blue Wireless in the, in the defense industry, and as, as I mentioned before, defense is getting more and more important, and I hope to see more on this in general.
The same technology works really, really well here for the 60 GHz. 28 GHz and millimeter wave is also going well now. At Cambium Networks in their Q2 reports earnings call, they say, "In addition to our 28 GHz fixed five report, had a record quarter, and we have earlier than expected stocking orders for our new point-to-point fiber product." This is sort of they, they are really happy with the solution we have with them, and this is a good design win. Even if, in this case, we're selling only chips and not the full modules, which is sort of reducing maybe the sort of high sales volumes in that sense. To summarize, I mean, we, we have a very strong momentum going into second half. We're very confident meeting outlook.
We had 91% for the first half of this year, SEK 270 million in official orders and other orders on top of that. This means that there is a strong outlook that reaching over SEK 162 million second half, 100% growth, and the positive EBITDA second half. Orders in all verticals, Optical I/O, LiDAR, Fortune 100 customer, five years SATCOM. We are very proud of what we're doing right now, and it's going really, really well. I think that is all I had from a presentation standpoint. Again, very sorry that you didn't see the slides, but I think we, our marketing can make that happen afterwards, hopefully.
I'm happy to see almost 200 people on the call right now, and I will now take the questions as well. I've seen there is a lot of questions come in, as well as answers to my stuff. I'll start with this one. In the Oppenheimer presentation, you said Cerius is aiming 20% of the chip market in area SATCOM terminals, and that you could achieve this will be customers already have today. Yes, I mean, as I just mentioned and showed, yes, I, I can reiterate that, and I, I totally agree that we could do that, and that's a sort of a really big market. I think that's in the sense of, it says 10 billion here, say it's $5 billion or SEK 50 billion, which sort of is 20%, is about $1 billion, in the sense that should be possible to reach. Yes.
If you look at 2024, do you think revenue will increase compared to 2023, or will this be a flat year? No, I mean, we are seeing a very strong pipeline, and you will see more coming in. All of those things we do now in NRE, which leads to hardware sales or product sales, is actually sort of coming also to fruition. We don't foresee a flat year next year. Let me see here. Next question.
Fortune 100, you said that there are several products with them, how many? Are there some market- they're making progress? Yes, there are several projects. It's both the sort of emitter and the detector project. If we win both, I mean, that would mean that we double the money in the things I've presented in a way as well.
Fortune 100, number three, or is the array projects canceled? No, it's not canceled, but it takes a long time to get to the next phase, and we have no update on that currently. You are saying several Fortune 100. Can you say anything about Fortune 100 product, company products? No, I cannot say anything about those. There is, you know, in several areas, in photonics, in all the areas we, we have that type of customers. In all verticals, there are Fortune 100s we're talking to, we can say.
LiDAR customer, how big volumes can you see here and when, time frame? I, I don't sort of gone into the volumes yet in that sense. There is sort of a, that market is not as big, I would say, as optical I/O, and it's, it's, of course, very depending on the automotive market also getting started. I would say, volumes will come more in end 2024, 2025-ish in that area. C an you give us a clue on what it's for a product or for the LiDAR? I can't give you any clue there right now, but it's for a LiDAR solution for automotive, enterprise, and so forth.
Are you in any product with other companies similar to AR? If so, how far from market volume? Yes, we are, we are definitely, as I mentioned in the presentation, there is several companies we're talking to, and basically being the only company who have this sort of race already that we can demo with. We're talking to all of them. We, we have ongoing products with, with most of them already, and hopefully we can share more about this the second half this year, and maybe even we can get someone to join us at the Capital Markets Day, the 27th of September. Let's see.
Tier One , your earlier estimate, $30 million and $30 million sales deal with MixComm. Do you still estimate this, and you see there's a... They have changed the, the, the terminal and, and, and, and the array. I don't have an updated number on, on those estimates currently. But I would say that when we get there, I, I think we can get closer to, and estimate the numbers. Intel-wise, again, please update time frame, expected volumes, something new about the countries, Africa, Asia. I mean, the time frame is still the same. I would say, the prototyping is now done now, they will do field trials and so forth. I would say, 2024-ish is when we see volumes. Of course, not only India, as to say, from the G20, there was a big interest also from other sort of countries like Asia and Africa.
The cooperation with NXP and PureSoftware in India, now, news for the plan? I mean, we, we are progressing that as well, and, and the work is ongoing. No new news per se, that we can share. In India, in general, can you say anything about how many customer operators they have? No, I cannot share details about customers and so forth, on that, unfortunately.
8devices, are you still in line with earlier PM regarding sales? We are mostly in line, and, and they're part of the sales that we've done and that we did last year, and this year as well. However, I think the market is a bit softer on some of those customers, and we've seen competitors having really big issues, I think, in these kind of areas when it comes to sales.
Cambium, are you going to sell even the antenna to them? Yeah, we hope to be part of the antenna project, actually, in the next phase now, as we said, with the new 5G product we have, and they're going to upgrade to that, yes.
Li-Fi, are you in some sort of product with any customers in this area? No, I think currently Li-Fi is on hold a little bit since we have had to focus on the other stuff we're doing.
Erwan, you said that maybe you are going to make and sell, not just the chip antenna. Yeah, we have already, actually, they have ordered both chips and antennas, to, to the solution now in, in a recent order that we, I think was in Q1, that was part of that order that we went out with, with several customers. Yes, they have actually, sort of used our stuff on both sides.
KREEMO and TMYTEK , nothing new actually on, on that side. I know that KREEMO is, for example, doing a lot of work. I don't think TMYTEK , per se, is sort of a, a big volume company. They are selling more test equipment and that kind of stuff. KREEMO, however, has a very interesting portion when it comes to handsets and so forth, and we'll see if we can get them, and they can be successful there.
Repeat the customers, please update us. Yes, as I said before, that the repeater market in the U.S . currently has not progressed well with, for anyone, actually. I think there is a sort of an on hold on repeater, especially when we talk about the C-band and all of that has taken over in the US currently. Millimeter wave is coming back in the next phase. I think we can see more repeater work at that point. Do you have several products with future LiDAR customers? Yes, we have at least four or five LiDAR customers in the pipeline. Some of them we already have contracts with.
I noticed it's a locked bank funds in SEK 50 million. What's this related to? Will you get these refunds in return? Yes, they will be in return, and they're related to a customer project that we are doing. They are just locked temporarily due to that. Working capital had a negative effect on SEK 25 million in Q2. Do you expect this to reverse on going forward? Yes, well, I think we've had, you know, been working on how the working capital will affect us in the future. Of course, we had some investments in that sense that we needed to do in the quarter.
You have received two orders for qualification, 1 F-one hundred and one from LiDAR. How long do you expect these qualification processes? Both the Fortune 100, we also have Ayar Labs, so all of them is sort of in the qualification, I would say, LiDAR and AR. Basically, it's sort of about a 1-year process sometimes to get to that phase.
Is the restructuring cost of CE me included in the personal cost for 37? Yes. Regarding your old outlook, would you have been adjusted if it's a positive in H2 without the delayed shipment of say, $50 million being pushed to Q3? Yes, I think so. It's a bit hard to say, of course, but I think so. You will, you might see, you know, other things coming in that will sort of clarify that, which I can't talk about now.
Rockley Photonics seems to be restructuring and back in business. It's rumored that their assets are up for sale. Do you see their return effect on Sivers probably in any way? No, I don't. Rockley have had very little effect on what we have been doing, I think, over the last couple of years.
Regarding the product that you have with the LiDAR customer, did you knock out the previous supplier, or have Sivers been with this customer from start? No, we are knocking out a previous supplier that they're using today, and sort of improving their solution for the next generation.
Can you elaborate a little more on the development in hardware, say, especially wireless? How do you perceive this development among coming in 12 months? I mean, we will be growing the company, and we'll be growing the share. I think we had 15% hardware sales in, in Q2. We will be growing hardware sales as we go. Of course, the plan is to sort of become more and more hardware sales as we go ahead. I can't go into exact numbers, but hopefully, in the outlook for 2024, we might be able to say something about that.
Will you get, will you finalize the Fortune 100 customer? Yeah, that's the sort of million-dollar question. I mean, we are in a very good position. We're progressing all the time. They invested heavily. They like what we do, so we definitely hope so. It's more about sort of when than if, I would say nowadays. Yeah, here is questions around just seeing the first picture.
Development in the market concerning this wireless access, do you have any signed customer in this market for any of your two collaborations? Yes, we have a WiSig and the Intel project that is signed, yes.
In the Q2 report, you mentioned there are three companies that is working on optical solution, but hasn't been mentioned as a customer. Are any of these mentioned companies, Sivers customers? I cannot comment on that. But, of course, you can draw your conclusions from what I'm talking about. Okay, there's been a lot of things about they don't see the presentation, so I need to delete a lot of questions here right now. One second. Let's see.
Oh, what happened to the other Fortune 100? I think I answered that. We don't see your slides here. Working on deleting questions here. Mm-hmm.
More questions about that. At Capital Markets Day is tentatively scheduled for September 27th, and we are working on the agenda and will soon release more information. I believe I sound very positive about the Fortune 100. We don't have a last date for signing anything in print with the Fortune 100. It's all about them testing our products and providing feedback. They have an internal milestone that, as far as we heard from them, is going to be this year. From that, we are going to get feedback
Tier One , I already updated you on. We expect to see more orders on the Tier -1. TeamTech, aiRadar, aiRadar, I haven't talked about. I mean, they are, they are doing well. aiRadar is, as I said before, not a big customer per se. They, they will sell a little here and there, but it's sort of, they could sort of make new sales with other customers. What are they doing? Yeah, the Tier -1 is supposed to coming in Q1, in Q2, and the, the Tier -1 is actually. As I said, they have changed the, the, the array, and we're working on that, and, and it's soon to be more information on that. No slides.
Will the delay of funding from the CHIPS Act affect your timeline for new factory? There, I don't see there's any delay on the CHIPS Act from our side. We are getting funding from the CHIPS Acts in different products as we see right now. Can you give more flavor on the last SATCOM customer and the actual solution? In the PM, you wrote it is a solution where you deliver a race to an existing solution. No, it's not a race to an existing solution. It's actually a new array to a new solution. I don't know where you got that from, how long, though, how long to actual hardware sales here? Yeah, of course, I mean, I would say possibly 18 months, but, I mean, that's a big guesstimate here because there's a lot of different parts of the ecosystem involved here.
I, I will have to come back on exact numbers here. We already talked about the Tier-1 start picture. Yeah, where was that? No slides. Have you delivered the Tier -1 prototype? Yeah, we, we did that first, but we are going to deliver more Tier -1 prototypes. No slides. You've been around in the U.S., talked to investors. Are they interested to invest in Cerius? They're actually a parallel, no, parallel listing in the US. I think the interest is really high. The U.S., as you know, have had large sort of challenges when it comes to small cap companies and that kind of thing. It's not sort of the best investment climate still, but I think that everybody's talking, and that will change from September, October.
They are quite interested. We focus also a lot on investors that actually works within our ecosystem, and they understand our business, and that's the good thing about the U.S. investors. They really understand the technology and everything, and they have their eyes on Cerius now, and, you know, we are showing up more like the Oppenheimer stuff and others. It's been really good meetings in New York around that and, and elsewhere in the U.S. Yeah, we're really happy. Now we got to the phase where everybody could see the slides. Keep up the good work. Thank you for that, Victoria. Will you publish this on the network? I'm not sure what, but yeah, we'll publish, of course, this information we have here. Capital Markets Day again.
Qualcomm presses that you had started rolling out with Jio India, where are Cerius, and to communicate Indian solution concerning rollout? I think that from, from that sense, we are working, you know, with Intel and NXP in that sense, and Qualcomm have sort of a finalized solution, and our solution is to build together. We are a little bit behind Qualcomm in that sense, in the Indian market, and possibly sort of a bit of a different use case also, when they are doing. Do you still work with Tachyon? Yes, they have our solution. You have seen several sort of market things about that lately. CMD, again, we don't have a prognosis for India and Intel in volumes, no. Do you, the Fortune 100 again, questions about: are you still positive about volume?
Yes, I am positive in the sense that we now believe it's more of a timing issue than, than if. Of course, you could never, ever be fully sure, but I, I think we definitely have moved in the right direction and, and invested a lot in this. It's talking about sort of ALL.SPACE, 20%, and will that increase? I mean, I, I think that when we talked about the 20% in general, we, we know what we have behind us, but of course, it could increase as well. Still, it's a huge sort of income we can have only with 20% as well, so I don't think we should be picky about 20 or 23 or 25 here. How is the volumes for the Fortune 100?
It's about SEK 50 million per chip, per year, in volumes with the Fortune 100. Do you see any volumes for Airvine? Yes, we are delivering. We got some orders which was part of, of the order in Q1, and we are delivering, and they are winning more and more customers. Of course, that will be a catch-up effect when they sort of start rollouts in, in wider areas. Fortune 100, same question again. How is 5G going? It's going, as we said before, a bit slower, but we are of course, seeing some uptake, we believe that India will be the sort of, market that could sort of, support this a bit more, in general.
When C-Band is sort of running out of, of steam, I think 5G mmW ave will come in. Same question, 5G again. There is 116 headcount in the company right now, and we've reduced from 130. Are you happy with that? Yes, I think we are happy with that. We have sort of find a, a good, sort of amount of headcount to also have the right sizing to reach a positive adjusted EBITDA. We're happy with that, yes. Tier-1 question again, 8devices again, repeater again. SATCOM hardware, SATCOM hardware orders? Yeah, I mean, we have SATCOM hardware orders, but as I said in the report, and we are expecting to see more orders, definitely. Yeah, again, same hardware question. My sound is not good today.
Hans, feels like you're sitting in space. Okay, yeah, that could be fitting. Yeah, it's because my computer completely died, and I still haven't fixed the real one, so this is a loaner. Unfortunately, that created some problems today, but, yeah, that's life. Have the interest from U.S. American investors increased? I think so. Also you might have seen there is some new big funds dipping their feet a bit, and the toes. Hopefully there will be more and more interest from the U.S. now, when they moving into sort of, again, looking at small cap and growth companies. I think we're in a very good place to be in the right place for that when that happen.
KREEMO again, your forecast $50 million ship for F1 customer include both receiver and transmitter? No, it's actually only one of the projects in that sense. It could be $100 million, yes, per year. I mean, we, we have to be careful on, on what it could be and not be here, but yeah. Do you really hear right here? Is it, is it worth receiver and transmitter means $240 million? Yeah, it could mean that, yes. Do you believe in positive cash flow for 2024? We haven't gone out with that forecast. I mean, if we, if we do all the things right and everything goes, it, it, it shouldn't be impossible to get there, but I cannot promise anything in that sense.
Of course, more depends on CapEx investments as well, and what we do there. Will you buy more shares? Yeah, I always do, and I will probably do now as well. You talked about F100 now for 5 years. Do you think that it's time for information? I mean, we're giving information, and as we said, I mean, we've been working with this quite, for quite long time, but it's a very positive. It creates sales. We are doing good things, and there is an enormous upside. Of course, if the customer doesn't give us the full things, what they're doing, and they're very secretive, I can't give you anything that they don't give me. If you're not happy with that, it's not much I can do, unfortunately, Carl.
You discussed the first one when. Yeah, investments in the factory. How do they look like? Yeah, I can't go into that. It's a long thing, and, and we're running out in a few minutes, unfortunately. No, I have no more news on the other Fortune hundreds, currently, that we have products with. Any positive about fixed wireless access, or is it paused and not competitive yet? I think there are small movements in that area, and, and it is competitive, and I think it's just sort of that the C-band has been good enough in a sense, for that to not roll out. The expectations is that it will roll out more and more as we go, and, and more and more customers comes to market.
Which category do you think will generate the most revenue in 2024, photonics or wireless? I think probably wireless, as we see it now. Wireless is growing quicker, but photonics is also coming strong in the end of next year, I would say. We'll see. You might be fabless as in photonics for the bigger volumes? No, I, I don't think so. I mean, that is definitely not the preferred thing, but it would be a sort of neglect from our side to not look at that kind of thing. We, we are definitely aiming to have either greenfield or the other part, but yes. Do you need a production facility, both in the U.S. and Europe? We'll still keep our product facility in Scotland. It might be that then we add something in the U.S.
In that case, yes, we'll have both. Can you say anything about funding? Yeah, I mean, I, I've talked about that. It's a long, long thing to go through, unfortunately, and we're already up an hour. Unfortunately, I mean, so many more questions here, and I'm sorry, I've done the hour, and I need to run to the next interviews and stuff. Thank you for all the questions. Thank you for attending. I'm really sorry about the, the, there was no slides. I hope the, the words went through well anyway, and we'll try to fix this on the, on the internet. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.