Good morning and welcome to this webinar. My name is Anders Storm, and I'm the CEO of Sivers Semiconductors, and I will take you through this Q2 webcast, and today we have a lot of new people coming into the company and interested in the company. We had over 400 people, which is four times more than normal. I'm going to focus a bit also on talking more deeper about Sivers Semiconductors. The length of the presentation will probably be a bit longer, and the time for questions a bit shorter, unfortunately, since I have to. I only have one hour. I have to move away to next meetings. Let's start the presentation and go through the situation. To summarize the quarter, the sales was quite slow in April, May due to the coronavirus.
In June, we had quite strong uptake overall, concluding the overall quarter - 10% year-on-year, which is quite good in this situation, I would say. If we look at some of our customers who have reported already, like Cambium, they had - 11%. We had year-on-year Adtran actually - 21%. So there has been an effect on the overall market that we're working in, but we've done really well to keep up with that market and not have any effect in our factories and so forth in that sense. We have, of course, closed some very important deals during Q2. We had two Fortune 100 customers with contracts over SEK 30 million. The deal, the CPE deal after the quarter, the 480 million estimated deal.
We also have closed some more design wins during the quarter, including the CPE deal plus new ones. We're now totally 19 design wins overall. As I said today, we're going to do some extra background and deeper go into the company. If we look at overall Q2, we had a turnover of SEK 21.4 versus SEK 21.738, which is - 10%. That is, of course, an effect on, on the COVID, on the sales numbers. If we look at the EBITDA, that was a bit lower, SEK 2.7 million. But there are some effects right now that actually the company is. I'm going to explain more about those, but they are not sort of cash flow or any real costs in any way. For example, the provisions that we're doing for social security costs when the share price is going up, the staff options is also going up.
And therefore we have to do provisions, which was SEK 3.2 million, and they are unfortunately getting in already on an EBITDA level. So if we look at that, we were actually in a sort of adjusted for it. It has a bit of a small improvement actually year-on-year on EBITDA level. And also if we exclude that we actually have capitalized R&D less, that means that all the development is not taken as sort of an income. We are more focused on delivering that. Therefore we have an even better result. We look at the overall operating income, it was - SEK 7.9 million, including the two things I mentioned, as well as we actually have a financial cost increase of -SEK 4.2 million, which is connected to the convertible bond and that derivative that is connected to that.
And that's sort of the same thing as with the social security fees. This is something we need to bring up in the as a financial cost, but it's no effect on cash flow or anything else. So it is important to understand this. Therefore we also have done a calculation on the next slide on how these effects can actually affect the results in a sort of a way that needs to be aware of, but it has no real effect. So if we look at the embedded derivative, which is sort of the Ampleon right to convert to shares, the market valuation in the income statement is affected then mainly by the USD/SEK FX rate and the share price, of course. Increasing the share price increased the value, which increased the financial cost.
But however, it's not a technique, it's a technical account effect only. And the important thing is to understand that that's the valuation that is affected. There's nothing, no effect by to be paid out or any cash or anything. So, if the share price go up about 10 SEK as it has done or even more between Q2 and Q3, that will be actually a negative effect on the, on the financial cost by SEK 44 million . And again, that is not a real cost in any way, but it's good to understand that, for the next report. The same thing with the social security fees. This is nothing special for us. I mean, I've seen Spotify had the same in their report actually. So the personal cost is going up when the staff option is going up, but there's no effect on the cash flow.
We've done, we're doing provisions for this per quarter. As you saw, it's affected us by SEK 3.2 million. If that effect is now, sort of, going further on in, in Q3 with a higher share price, that, for example, 10 SEK will have an effect of SEK 14 million instead on social security fees. It is something that will actually affect on the EBITDA line, but it's not a real effect per se. It's more of a financial, accounting effect in that sense. With that said, we can look at the first half year. If we look at sort of the COVID effect in general here, we have been able to keep the first half year where March, April, and May have been the months sort of with the COVID effect and the total is - 6%.
And the numbers here I see actually is wrong there on the EBITDA. It's a - 8 on the EBITDA for overall and so forth. But the cash in bank was SEK 65 million. If we look at the segment reporting then we see that wireless have had a sort of downturn. But as mentioned in the last quarterly report, I mean, we have had some end-of-life products from last year with the VCOs and radars that is, so the comparison is not really fair in that sense. So all the new products in 5G that is coming up and growing now was not there sort of last year in that sense. Photonics has been growing 7%. North America is the largest market, a lot of the effect on the Fortune 100 customers.
Europe is 26% and Asia is 9%, which is very similar actually to last quarter as well. If we look at a significant event again, as I mentioned, two Fortune 100 customers are going to go into that. We also had a press release about Photonics, around the standardization organization around the Photonics devices. And there are some really large companies, and we're working within that group like Arista, Ayar Labs, IMEC, Intel, Lumentum, MACOM, Quintessent, Sumitomo, and so forth. That is fantastic for a sort of a small company to be part of this big team to set the next generation of silicon photonics in that sense. If we look at the Fortune 100 customers, the new deal in April with the new Fortune 100 was a SEK 7.5 million NRE project to build prototypes for sensing applications.
This is of course a big step getting a second really large company in and supporting that. It was not just a one chance that we got the first one, so the first one going back to that, they had another order of SEK 21 million in NRE in June, which was including also more projects now. It's not just the first one. There's several projects ongoing, which is really good. And we have done some deliveries in Q2 on that order already. And we're still in the prototype phase and working really hard to convert that of course into the volume phase. But it's hard still to say since we're not controlling the customer's products and how they're going to launch them. It's still hard to share any timeline on that unfortunately.
If we look at the significant events for Q2 after Q2, of course we had the 5G mmWave agreement on the CPEs for an estimated value of SEK 480 million, which I'm going to tell you more about and do a sort of deep dive soon. We have also done a directed share issue to close the loan of SEK 20 million we had for working capital. That was a very small dilution and it was a big opportunity for us to close that loan that was supposed to be closed in end of August. We did it before that instead of prolonging it. Now we are working with bigger banks to sort out our working capital in the future, which will support us very well rather than the short-term loan we had from this group.
If we look at the CPE deal, so that's connected to sort of fixed wireless access as it's called. The base station connects to the home and you get a gigabit link to the home. It's sort of that what is really new with this contract is that it's not sort of a classic just design win and then a lot of work and then a supply agreement. They've gone directly from sort of from an RFQ process into a full sort of design win and a supply agreement, including all the estimates and so forth for how much they're going to sell. We're going to work on this and from early 2023, we will start rolling out volumes.
What is also unusual about this is that our customer in this case has their own customer already signed up for this, so it is a commitment also on that side, which makes this a very interesting project, and we were of course extremely happy to be the number one coming out from this RFQ. There was quite many companies bidding as far as we understand, and we came out as a winner, and this is of course one of the most important deals we've taken on in the 5G side, and our strength in the CPE side of the market has therefore been stronger, and to talk a bit about how strong that is currently, we can look at sort of the underlying demand of course on 5G and the need for more data traffic.
The data traffic is growing more and more and it's still sort of an exponential growth. If we look at the Ericsson Mobility Report that came out in 2020, it is going to sort of keep on growing. That means that this is just the start of the bigger need for datacom, and fixed wireless access as well. If we look at the more details on the fixed wireless access demand, Ericsson are including of course not just the millimeter wave, but they include all the data. That's why there's such a large number in 2020. But it goes up to almost 160 million. So it's about 100 million new connections or solutions for fixed wireless access coming up in the coming five years.
With, there is also another report called the SNS Research for Fixed Wireless Access that came out in August 2017. They are confirming the numbers, but they are maybe a bit higher than Ericsson is saying now. So it's been a change sort of slightly over the time. But if we look at sort of and that report was mostly millimeter wave. So if we look at that and reduce it a bit more and look at that Ericsson numbers, we can come to a conclusion that the overall number of units is like 30-40 million something until 2025. That will be the millimeter wave that where the market we are addressing. The total TAM is then quite large.
In the overall, if these estimates are correct, with our sort of that one deal that we have made, we have other, of course, CPE deals also including the with Cambium and other companies, but this specific deal is sort of maybe 4% of the total market over the time 2023 to 2025, so there is a lot of opportunity left to win and deals to make, so this is just sort of the start of the long run. And if you look at the company, it's not like where we are today on the quarterly results that should be viewed the company, but looking at the company more long term and how that will affect income. If we look at the design wins then, how are they sort of the status of them? There's sort of 19.
We added then three since the last report I made. And then of course there's the large CPE deal. Then there's also a new Japanese customer and a module company within Europe, in Europe. So both of those other ones are smaller Tier 3 companies. But they are sort of working on building solutions that are quite interesting. If we look at the overall solutions here, we can see the dark gray are the sort of higher frequencies, the unlicensed 5G, which are now going sort of a bit better than the licensed on the licensed deal, which is of course part of the large CPE deal. And we will win more deals there hopefully as well.
And before it was a bit 50/50, but since we are so strong now also in the 60 GHz spectrum, the unlicensed one, and it's just us and another vendor, Qualcomm basically in there. So it gives us an opportunity to win more deals there. The number of competitors in the sort of licensed spectrum is a bit higher. But as you can see, we won a big deal and we have the opportunity to win more. So how have these sort of deals gone so far? So if we look at, some of them have now come into sort of, or over time been in prototypes and have ready hardware. So all of these are in different levels.
to mention a few, if we look at Cambium Networks for example, they are planning to be ready with their solution by second half this year. And if we look at the Eastern European Point- to- Multipoint also, sort of a license deal we made, that is also coming to sort of prototypes and getting ready for volume and supply agreements. And so the next step is of course to bring this into volume, but also to get volume you need to sign a supply agreement. And we have some of the supply agreements sort of signed already, about five of them. And a few of those are now in volume like Cambridge Communication Systems, and so forth and Blu Wireless.
But the other ones are not really there in the volume phase yet, but we are estimating at least six to seven to be there as we've said before, before the end of the year and then seeing the numbers growing in 2021. That's our estimate right now. But of course we are not controlling our customer's launch and that's sort of one of the drawbacks of being a component supplier a bit back in the value chain. However, we feel strongly that this is moving in the right direction. And of course some of them have had sort of challenges when it comes to COVID as well as you've seen from Adtran had 21% less sales and so forth. But there are many other things that's happening now.
I think second half and we're seeing an improvement in the second half of it and we'll come back on that of course. I will talk a bit about these different projects. Fujikura for example, we've been around for quite some time, as a customer. They've launched now the technology. They just recently also got licenses to try their technology for backhaul in Japan. So they are making progress. But I think Fujikura in a way has also, in their market, been sort of more hit by COVID-19 than some other companies. The Chinese Tier 2 vendor that's doing track-to-train and Fixed Wireless Access is making good progress. That is one of the companies we see that will go into volume.
And we also have the Eastern European company that we already have a supply agreement with, but they are also closing in on that of course. So this is an interesting mix of companies and we're really happy that we're building on this. But this is of course not the end. We are keeping on building. We're selling more evaluation kits. We're getting new requests. And as you've seen even in the pandemic we've won business and we will keep on winning business in this area for sure. So I will now do a company recap and talk more about these things in general for everybody to hear about it. But it will be some repetition for many of you who have been with the company a longer time.
So to give you some flavor, I mean the company has been around for quite some time. We have this is a turnaround case. It started about five years ago. And it's been possible to actually use a lot of sort of R&D investments and technology that was done previously into this company when 5G was sort of taken off. And then we actually acquired a company in Glasgow. And now the company has 99 employees. They're very high level of skill, 20 PhDs within the company. The main office is in Kista. And we also have an office in Gothenburg for a wireless part, which was a part of a transaction that was done in 2013 with a company called Trebax. So if we look even further in the history, I mean it's the company name is Sivers IMA.
That is because it's two different companies were put together in the 1980s, when Philips bought the company. There was an acquisition in 1975. IMA is actually coming from a company called Interactive Microwave and KTH Microwave Institute at KTH and ASEA who became IMA. Then there was a private buyout in the end of the 1980s, the early 1990s. Then it took some time before the new strategy was done in 2015, 2016, to bring this company into the 5G parts, which have then been a very, very good journey. We started developing RFICs in 2015, which is sort of on silicon germanium. We signed the first deals with Blu Wireless and other companies.
And then we did the acquisition of CST Global and found a sort of a really interesting company there to build forward on in 2017. So we had two strong legs for the future. We also entered into the first Nordic market in 2017 in November. Partnerships with companies like Integrated Device Technology, Ampleon. We signed the first customer contract on 5G with CCS also in 2017. Then we kept on in 2018 adding some new institutional investors. For example, Swedbank Robur and Ny Teknik came in very early. And that was of course a very good start. We also added AMF and Nordic Cross. And then we signed further partnerships within 5G with Fujikura and Ampleon. And Ampleon also invested in a convertible bond. And we also started getting new 5G design wins.
We were also the ship. Actually now the 60 GHz ship was selected as the best industry showcase by IEEE in a big fair, symposium in the U.S. in 2018, which was sort of the real kickoff and start of bringing in and getting respect in the market for our technology as well. Then we progressed even further in 2019 and also started adding US Fortune 100 customers in photonics. And the turnaround of the photonics business has started to pay off in really interesting projects with two follow-up orders for SEK 30 million over Fortune 100 at that point. We got close to SEK 100 million in revenue. We totaled about 12 design wins in the end of the year. And as you know now, we're up to 19. So seven more since the end of 2019.
And now we're seeing the acceleration. It should say 19 design wins. Fiber changed also name to photonics since we are now doing more and more sensing applications as well. We have first supply agreement in place for license 5G with Cambium Networks for example. Ampleon launched together with us the latest beamformer IC, the second project with Ampleon. And we also extended the portfolio into silicon photonics with a collaboration in the photonics business with IMEC, which is a European research R&D house as well. So it's happened a lot of things over the last five years. And we have had a strong growth last year. We grew 35%. I think COVID has unfortunately put sort of some pressure on the growth as you can see for this year. But anyway, coming out of this in a good way.
So I mean to zoom out on the company development over the last four, five years. And we started with SEK 18 million in 2016. We're now up to 2019 in on about SEK 100 million. We are now in a position where we're waiting for the second growth phase so to speak when we're getting into volume phases. And a lot of the products we were selling in 2016 didn't have much to do with what we're selling today. So it's also been a lot of work of transforming the company during this period into new products that are now in a phase of potential growth. And onto of course the two business areas photonics and wireless. In wireless we provide RFICs, which is a silicon-based circuits for sending and receiving radio waves.
We put them also onto antennas and we're selling also modules. We can sell both entities so to speak depending on if the customer wants to make their own antenna or we make the antenna. But it's more and more important that the integration is high there of course between them because of the 5Gs requiring a lot of beamforming, beam steering and other things that is a complex. The areas we can use this technology today is fixed wireless access, which is the broadband to the home, 5G mmW ave in general to mobile phones from base stations where you have the beamformer ICs. You can have it as a mobile backhaul, sending back data from the base station to the network, the internet. Track to train applications, which is the Blu Wireless things for example.
In the future we're seeing even more things like Vehicle-to-X where you connect this and other type of transportation like buses and so forth. Why is this 5G so important then? If you look at the overall, it's all about spectrum actually. Because if you look at the current spectrum that has been used and also being used for some of the low sort of lower frequency 5G stuff that we call Sub-6 GHz, the bandwidth of those channels are sort of 10x smaller. And also there are less number of channels available. So there is a spectrum crunch as it's called. With the 5G now there is sort of many new frequencies in these millimeter wave spectrum open up.
In the unlicensed spectrum that we have been really successful, there is this sort of two GHz or 2160 MHz wide channels. There is sort of six of them. We are the only one in the world who actually can support all six currently. There has been a sort of investment on the license spectrum of several billion dollars in the U.S. to buy this spectrum to use it. The overall spectrum available as you can see is much larger. It is 40 times larger in this. This is just starting and it will go on for the coming 10 years. This is quite important for the overall understanding of why is 5G mmW ave so important in the future. Talking about the different customers, Cambium is one of the more well-known customers. I can recommend that you listen to their quarterly calls.
They came out just now with a report. They were - 11% year-on-year on sales numbers. But they're also talking about the product we are part of the 28 GHz license solution that they see as a future important. They're listed in the U.S. They had a turnover about 2.6 billion SEK in 2019. The headquarters in Chicago. They are working on both base station and CPEs with our chipset that now is into the market, the TRXBF02. That's the chip we're now launching and will be part of the other project that we're talking about, the 480 million. They are actually long-term contracts. Cambium will also go over to that chipset in the next generation. That is the project. It's called the BF03. That will be some connections to this as well.
But it's a very interesting to see this now that will start developing already the end of this year compared to the other product that's coming in 2023. We also have within the license we have what's CCS and Adtran. These are pictures of their solutions. This is actually rolled out and used today. This you can go down to Trafalgar Square and see these boxes on the right-hand side being used. And for example and other places close to that you have the CPEs as well that's been used. So this has been deployed mostly in the U.K., but also actually in Sweden by a company.
This is a very interesting and also Adtran coming into this, which is a sort of number three player in the world when it comes to fiber, which will use this as an extension portfolio of the fiber they're using. This is a very important customer to us and was one of the leads on the 60 GHz. Then we have Blue Wireless that are doing not only sort of silicon stuff as well when it comes to the modem, but they also provide full systems for transportation and track to train solutions. So they are using our solution there. They have started deploying this with a train company in the U.K.. They call the product SurfBlue. You can see it on the right-hand side. This is also very exciting.
These are not so big volume as the fixed wireless access, but it's very high margin compared to it, and it's better margins overall. Our overall margin, we're trying to be something between 40%- 60%, gross margins. But in that case, it's better margins than that in the track-to-train. Here you can see pictures from the track-to-train from Trafalgar Square, and the company who's deploying this from CCS is called Ontix, which is an operator in the U.K.. Their CEO have actually said that they hope to see hundreds of thousands of these small cells to go out and build out around London for example, and many cities need this type of technology, so smart cities and that kind of stuff that's coming up, so it's very interesting.
And they're using this now for both fixed wireless access and mesh networks, backhauling and so forth. We've also built a large ecosystem around ourselves and a lot around different modem vendors where we have integrated this with IDT, NXP, and C-Tech, and also Blu Wireless, which is part of IDT as well. We've also built a partnership with semiconductor companies like NXP and Ampleon and Fujikura. And if we look at the modem partners, Blu Wireless is one of them. The other one is IDT. They have a RapidWave modem that we've already done the integration, which is part of the CCS deployments and so forth. And also part of the track-to-train stuff that we're doing. We have a smaller company in Singapore that has prototypes that have yet to get to sort of any large volumes.
But we hope that they will get into that and sell to their customers. NXP, we signed a deal or we made an official contract with them and a partnership where they are working on integration between their modem and unlicensed 5G. And work is still ongoing. It will probably take this year and so forth. But this is a key partnership I would say to also grow the market share within what I showed you in the fixed wireless access business and win more than the 3-4% we're talking about right now. Ampleon is an important partner when it comes to the base station stuff. They have a really big coverage within base stations. They are top two, excluding NXP when it comes to RF power in base stations.
They had an investment in the convertible bond of $4 million in December 2017 and are now, before December, have the right to convert it into shares as well. And we started two different projects. One was that they were part and invested in the first chip that is now in the Cambium solution. And the other chip now is just launched at the Mobile World Congress sort of here in this year, but it's still in prototype phase. And that chip was planned to be sort of ready for volume in early 2021. And we are now out meeting customers together with Ampleon to address that market. If we look a bit on the photonics business, now it's a bit technical, but it's actually called III-V compound semiconductors.
Those devices are like indium phosphide laser sources. So what we actually do is the laser itself that is connected to a module. We are participating in a lot of high growth markets. I will tell you more about those. There are 14 PhDs out of 66 employees. It's a very U.K.-based supply chain, which has been really good now in the corona times. We have strong university links and actually, a lot of the area around Scotland and Glasgow and so forth has been called Silicon Glen actually, which is sort of a Silicon Valley of photonics in a way, which has been very strong over the years. The areas we're working in here is three different optical communication, which is data centers, fiber to the home and so forth, optical sensing and sensors and optical wireless.
And the two newer areas is the two to the right here. And we are engaged of course, now with the optical sensing part with two different Fortune 100 customers. And we're working on Fortune 100 customers and have for some while in the optical communication part as well. But we've yet to get to a final deal there unfortunately. But we are in a strong position I think to also go forward there in the future. If we took it to optical communication, as I said, it was called PON. It's a passive optical network, which is fiber to the home, cloud data centers. It's an important market.
Then you can have the fiber to backhaul 5G quantum technologies in different ways where specifically we have developed things that could be used for security solutions within communication, sort of encryption and stuff, which is quite important. But we have not announced anything on that part so far. Optical sensing and sensors where you can actually have what's called LIDAR. It's a sort of a radar part. Consumer biometrics, you can use a laser of course to do fingerprinting and so forth. You can also use it for meteorology where you can measure sort of different type of gases in the air and be used, which is a very interesting area. Security as well, facial recognition and augmented reality and so forth. You can use lasers to do this. So it's a very big growth area.
We now have two Fortune 100 customers, as I said, in these areas. It is something called optical wireless, which is of course a bit strange. It could be optical and wireless at the same time, but it is actually light coming in the air, which is a sort of a competitor to Wi-Fi in a way called Li-Fi. It is more on a point-to-point solution and can be used as a sort of private network and in higher secure environment and so forth where wireless might sort of get out to the environment, but this does not. It is an interesting area where we are working with some projects to see if we can get some work there as well.
The photonics in datacom of course, looking at it, it is very important with the silicon photonics piece where you can sort of integrate the laser with the silicon. There has been a big advancement over the last couple of years in how to do this. I'll get into a slide about that later on. But it's a very interesting market and we are working really hard to be also part of that in the datacom market. If we look at the silicon photonics, I mean, it's the connection between silicon and the CMOS technology and the lasers. Sensing is likely to be sort of the biggest market in this, and adoption ultimately also into smartphones and other things. Highest growth will probably be in the U.S..
We have a significant ecosystem within Sivers for this and also for partners around the laser sources of course. And here you can see an example of how you actually sort of bring the silicon photonics laser over from the photonics or from the silicon part. And it's connecting actually the whole thing here. So this is sort of a very big step in being able to connect these. So what's the unique selling point in this area? So it's an end-to-end service design prototyping through high volume manufacturing of course, where strength in indium phosphide lasers, which we have been working with for a very long time, when the Fab was founded in Glasgow. We have key enabling silicon photonics technologies working with partners in that end.
We have an IP portfolio around sort of the recipes and so forth, how to do this within the factory. We have research partners like IMEC and others here that strengthen our ability to deliver things as well. And there are other partners there as well that we haven't mentioned. I've also got a lot of questions about the current capacity. You can see the Fab on the right-hand side and the office here in Glasgow. The current capacity, with some increases of staff when you look at just the sort of machinery and stuff, should probably be two to three times the current sales. But of course, this is very dependent on the product mix and the orders we get. So there's a big difference between pricing actually with certain orders.
It's also connected a lot to the order flow and how you can do that. There is of course always when you increase sort of capacity in general, you also want to have redundancy and so forth to really ensure that you need to have a redundancy for the customers as well and no single point of failures for example. That will of course require some investment as well when volume's growing. We have a very sort of if we have a very one-sided mix, then of course we can do more, but that might not be realistic that we get that because we have customers in general who need to do so.
The general question I get about the Fortune 100, as I said before, if we're really gonna ramp a Fortune 100, this is, the current capacity will probably not be able to fulfill that. So we need to invest more. And, as I said before, it's probably not an, that's a happy problem to have when that happens or if it happens. Also, the NASDAQ main market is an ongoing thing that has been sort of a bit slowed down in general by the COVID-19. But now we've had a decision in the board that we should sort of restart this project in a sort of more stringent way. And, the target is now set for first half 2021. We've done a lot of work as you've seen in the report of IFRS board committees, code of conduct things working on that.
But we are now sort of trying to speed this project and deliver on it. But of course, as always, business focus comes first and it will always do. It's not up to us if we get in. It's NASDAQ auditors that decides if it's gonna happen. But now we've put down the foot here and we'll start driving this for a specific date. So more on this later. But this is of course great that we are now in a position to drive forward this. So summarizing everything, I mean, slow April, May, due to COVID, June very strong, overall - 10% in the quarter on net sales year-on-year. We're seeing a sort of stronger uptake in June and forward.
Important projects for the future is of course the Fortune 100 projects we closed amidst the COVID situation, which is fantastic, SEK 30 million in orders. The large CPE deal has also been a very eye opener in general that what kind of market this is. Now totaling therefore 19 design wins including that deal and the target of a main listing for first half 2021. So that was the full presentation a bit longer today. So we will now start taking questions and I will try to open up here and start taking them and I only have 50 minutes. So I have probably had to be a bit selective today. How is the Fortune 100 customer doing and so forth and potential for projects?
I mean, we have several projects we've said with the first Fortune 100 and it's progressing really well. And as you've seen, we got an order in June that means that we are in a good position for the future, but we cannot give any sort of estimates on when we get to the next phase unfortunately. Yeah, another question around that. What is the product? When can we know the name and so forth? Unfortunately, we cannot go out with a name. It's a Fortune 100 customer and it's a well-known name I would say. How big is the capacity numbers? I think I answered that in the presentation. Have you heard anything from Ampleon due to the bonds?
Yes, I mean, they are well within the money now and I think that, they will for sure, do something before, it ends in December, in that sense. But, that should be a no-brainer of course with the current earnings they have on that. Do any supply agreements render money today? Yes. So, I mean, we got an order for something even if it was small, the first one from CCS, SEK 3.5 million CCS Adtran. But we hope to see of course an acceleration of that now when we're coming out of the COVID situation as well. Sivers has world-leading components in two enormous areas, photonics and 5G. Who are these? It's the, it's NXP, it's the largest NXP contract. Yeah, I cannot of course comment on the NXP contract, but I think both areas are doing really well.
We have two strong legs. There are future markets that are going to be an underlying drive for need for that technology we're working with. So I think we're well positioned in that. And whatever contract it is we sign, the next step will be an interesting contract of course. What is the status of 5G mm dual beamformer? Yeah, we have it in prototyping. It's been in the lab now for testing. We have had quite good measurements on everything. We'll probably have to work more on it of course. And we are expecting it to be sort of in mass production next year. Does the track-to-train in China with Blu Wireless affected due to U.S.? So track-to-train China is not with Blu Wireless. It's with another customer.
So I don't think that affects us with that customer either because this is not connected to Huawei. This is a Tier 2 company we're working with with a thousand employees something like that. So as far as we can see that has no effect on that. It's more Huawei who has a very big effect right now and it's in a very big situation bad situation I would say. During your last presentation you mentioned China was a new market. What's the status of China 5G? Yeah so as I just mentioned we are working over there with several customers. Our reseller Matrix have sold more EVKs and the customer I just talked about is making progress. So looks good. It's a very long question Jürgen. I don't know if I can take that now.
What revenue volumes do you need to break even EBITDA for respective? Yeah, so we haven't gone out what that means, but I'm my guess is something like doubling the revenue where we are today. We will start breaking even in short term. But I mean, that's the breaking even is not the sort of target here. We the target is something different and the growth is more important that we win deals and win more deals over time, which is the thing that we are working on hardest right now. You grow employees by 5%. What recruitment do you need to go forward and monetize your current design? So we grow employment in some important areas. And as you've seen, we're winning more business. We've done investments in sales.
As the guys who you followed, we took in two new salespeople, for example, in the wireless business that have been very effective. What we're seeing, more investment in the future is verification, validation, supporting customers to get to the market and so forth. And also of course, if we need to invest more in the larger buildout of Fab for example, the CST. Will the slowdown in wireless year-on-year Q2 be caught up during second half? Yes, that's what we're seeing. And, of course the slowdown, as I said before, is not fully sort of connected only to if we compare year-on-year because, in general you see, we had the end-of-life product also. So comparing that is not maybe a right way to do it.
But we are hoping we had a sort of a good progress in June and we hope to see a further progress on the year-on-year coming in the year. There are very long questions. I don't know if I have time to take all of them when they're so extremely long. What do you do in an effective way? Educate the market and millimeter waves is the best technology. I mean, we are doing a lot of things of course, but it's not to educate the market so much anymore. That was a couple of years ago. Everybody knows now that it isn't a very effective technology. I mean, just look at companies in the U.S. buying licenses for $7 billion. So there's no education in that. However, there's an education on how we are doing that technology and so forth.
During COVID now we have, for example, run webinars and other things. We are on the radar from most companies. So if there is an RFQ, we are invited in that sense. Is it fair to assume that the oldest design wins will lead to commercial agreements first and are there some expectation exceptions? No, it's fair to assume that. Of course, the longer time you have had on development, they should get more and more into volumes. But of course, there could be some exceptions if they don't succeed with their customers. But how will you finance R&D for the ASIC for SEK 80 million contract internally? What are your estimated development costs?
Yeah, but we are not sort of, if you look at the R&D, in itself, a lot of the cost there is headcount and the people that works internally and they are already hired and working internally. So we don't need to invest more in that kind of things. But if you win more businesses and need to go into more type of chipset development, we probably need to add another team. But that's another positive story in that case, I would say. The investor, we haven't sort of gone into and shared anything on our estimated development costs. Since the wireless business is also fabless, we don't need to sort of think so much about any investments into production, for example, which is a simpler thing to scale than compared to the photonics business.
Yeah, that was a question that we already had. Same question about the chip again. How many RF chips, chip projects is ongoing right now? Yeah, we haven't gone out with the exact numbers, but we have two Fortune 100s. One of them are working on several chipsets. That's what we said. The Ampleon Tier 1 chip, yes, as I told you, we are in production. We're now selling it. We have it in prototypes. We have customers that are testing it and we expect to see effects on that during the year and next year. Please update about Fujikura and many design wins.
Yeah, I cannot share exactly how many design wins they have and what they're doing, but they have now the ready product and they're outselling it to customers and specifically focused a lot around the 60 GHz right now, which they have launched. And as I said before, Fujikura have been a bit more hit actually by the COVID in the general business. Have Globtel solved the IP problem? I'm not sure if we talked about any IP problems there. That's nothing that I know about. So if you have anything, email it to me because I am not sure if they have an IP problem. How many Tier 1 have evaluated the old and/or the new Ampleon chip? I cannot share that, unfortunately. Good question, but we're of course trying to get out to all vendors.
That's what I can say. Please update on the unhackable quantum solution for CST. Yeah, I mean, it's. We don't have anything much new to say there yet. I mean, this is research and of course it could be a very interesting area in itself in the future, but I don't have any sort of update on customers or anything like that currently, unfortunately. How many new supply agreements in 5G do you think for the rest of 2020? I don't want to guess on that. What we said before is that we hope to get six to seven of those that we have already signed that will go and move into supply agreements. Antenna- on-C hip product status.
Yeah, if you've seen, we that status is. It's in the lab and we've been actually showing it off a bit. And it's been a research project and it's getting a positive understanding of the chip and possibility to use that kind of technology for the future. So it's an interesting technology that we are keeping on building and that's been a finance project from Smarter Electronic Systems. Do you think being Swedish European manufacturer has been a positive thing, getting 5G orders? Yes and no. I mean, it's if you're in the U.S., it's not always the best thing to be a European. But in China, I think it's a good thing. In Europe, it's definitely a good thing to partner up with you because you're local and so forth.
It's more about technology to win these. The US companies are very technology focused. And if you have really good technology, they buy from you anyway. So I hope that gives you an answer. What is your revenue CPE on average? We haven't really gone out on that. And it's hard also to say a bit because there's very different solutions. Sometimes it's a chip, sometimes it's a module on licensed or dual modules or whatever. So it's a bit of that. But we don't want to share it also for our competitors to know exactly what the pricing are. Let's see. Is it true that you are working with Fortune 400 companies? I don't want to comment that. If all your projects go the right way, how big market share receivers get?
It's a good question, but we don't do any forecast, unfortunately. So I cannot sort of share that. But I mean, you get some pointers today that in the CPE market, for example, we looked at with just that one deal, 3-4% of the market. So, it's a way of seeing it at least. Are you considering opening up an office in the U.S.? If yes, would it be in the Bay Area? I mean, of course we're looking at it. We have some people, consultants over there right now working for us. And it, it's an opportunity and a possibility, of course, to grow the business into the U.S.. So it's a maybe, yes. Is it possible to outsource photonics manufacturing? Depends what you mean.
I mean, the customers that buy photonics from us, they are outsourcing their manufacturing for us. So yes. But in the sense of that we would outsource it to someone else, yes, maybe. But then we need to do and use our recipes that we have and our personnel and staff would need part of doing that and build up such an outsourcing. At least what do you prefer when, as, celebrate your next deal? Wine or beer? Oh, that was a good question. Maybe it's, maybe there's a last one. No, but we have a few more minutes. Of course, champagne is how you celebrate, isn't that? What profitability are you seeing in 5G? We haven't gone through a sort of it on bottom line, but what we want to have in 5G in general is 40%-60% gross margins.
Do you see accelerating sales during the rest of 2020 and how large growth? I mean, we don't do forecast in that sense, but we're seeing a positive development. And naturally when customers are moving from design win and prototyping into volume, it should be a growth, of course. How are you looking buying more companies? I mean, there is a possibility, of course, to find companies that fits. And of course with the sort of higher market cap, it open up possibilities. So we are constantly reviewing our strategy around mergers and acquisitions in that sense. So I cannot say more than that, but of course there is always on the horizon to look at possibilities in that area. Have you received an interest in licensing and acquiring some or all your technology IP?
No, we are not sort of looking in licensing deals, and selling IP. That's not our business model. Our business model is to sell products. How do you look at possibility on an offer on the whole company? I mean, we are currently working on getting to a profitable market. We have two strong business areas. We have strong customers, strong network around us. If that happens, that will happen. But right now my focus is fully on building a profitable company moving into the main list, first half next year. Okay. We have, I think, one more minute. How do you look at the... oops, then it disappeared. What are your hopes to come? Can you talk about the Q3 report? No, unfortunately not. How do you look at the possibility on an offer?
Okay, that was the one I read already. Thank you for a fantastic presentation. Thank you for listening. We've had a lot more people this time. Be a daughter company in the same type of question. Congratulations to have Bill McCollom on the team. Very good job. Thank you for that. Yes, I think we actually finished there as ending the presentation. Thank you so much for listening. We will, of course, as normal, put this out without the Q&A part on the web afterwards. And I will now go in for some meetings in town and also some interviews that will be broadcasted later on. So thank you so much, everyone, for listening in. And it's really fun to see that so many new people are coming in and are interested in the company. Thank you.