Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the ams OSRAM Conference Call on First Quarter 2025 Results and Live Webcast. I'm Moritz, this call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in the listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a question-and-answer session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing Star and 1 on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press Star and 0. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Jürgen Rebel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.
Good morning. This is Jürgen speaking. We welcome all of you to our financial and business update on the first quarter fiscal year 2025. Aldo, our CEO, will comment on business and strategy. Rainer, our CFO, will focus on the financials then. During the call, we are referring to the earnings call presentation that you can find on our website. Please be aware we also always provide a second full IR presentation with further background material on our website. Aldo, please walk us through the latest results.
Pleasure to do so, and also welcome to everybody from my side. We are staying on course in uncertain times. Our turnaround continues, Re-establish the Base ahead of plan, more savings realized in the last quarter. It's a key driver for noticeably higher profitability in a difficult quarter compared to a year ago. Let us look at the financial performance of the group on slide two. Revenues came in at EUR 820 million, above the midpoint of the guidance. There's a sequential decline of 7%, pretty much in line with the usual seasonality across the board, despite the underlying cyclical weakness. Seasonality was the clear driver in the Auto Lamps aftermarket business. Present semis, we saw more complex dynamics. Year-over-year, we're only down 3%, which is primarily due to the cyclical inventory correction in the auto semis and the cyclical bottom in Industrial &Medical.
Also, the non-refundable engineering payments for the development of novel LED technologies contributed positively. At constant currencies and excluding the divested passive optical components business, the decline would have been 4%. Profitability: adjusted EBITDA margin improved year- over- year by almost 2 percentage points to 60.4%. 2% more EBITDA with 3% lower revenue. This shows the improvement in our earnings profile due to the Re-establish the Base program and non-refundable engineering payments we keep receiving. Why only down EUR 50 million quarter- over- quarter, less than the typical fall-through? Remember, in Q4, we reduced inventories, which lowered EBITDA. Year- over- year, we see a 9% improvement, coming in EUR 11 million higher at EUR 135 million, and this on a lower revenue base. Now, quickly on the segments, page three, a look at traditional halogen lamp business. Revenues came down 9% quarter- over- quarter.
The aftermarket continues to be good and is going through the usual seasonal pattern with lower revenues coming in Q2 and Q3. A bit of a decline year- over- year as we still have some legacy OEM module business running a year ago and more OEM lamp business that is transitioning towards LED. We continue to win share at the top OEMs, as is visible in our annual VPA negotiations with them. Together with our strong performance in the aftermarket channel, it continues to show the strength of our last-man standing play. Within the EUR 249 million, again around EUR 45 million of specialty lamps for Industrial and Entertainment applications, these were pretty much flat sequentially.
Very, very poor product mix, a one-time effect, and good plant utilization boosts adjusted EBITDA margins to almost 25%, a real strong performance. EUR 61 million compared to EUR 50 million in the December quarter.
Now it's time to look at the semiconductor business on slide four. OS first. Auto semis came down 4% quarter- over- quarter. Revenues stood at EUR 336 million after EUR 350 million last quarter. Actually, a bit better than expected. In short, non-refundable engineering payments for a novel LED technology and support from the Euro USD exchange rate helped balancing the negative effect of the typical January first VPA price down in auto semis and the revenue tailwinds in Q4 from delivering on order backlog.
When it comes to this novel LED technology, I'm very pleased that we continue to be on track in terms of engineering milestones for this technology-truly demanding project. Adjusted EBITDA stayed almost flat at EUR 49 million, coming in at 15%. Remember, in Q4 last year, we reduced wafer starts to bring down inventories, which impacted EBITDA, hence kind of an artificially lowered baseline to compare against.
Now, sensors and ASICs on slide five. Majority of the business is in consumer, which saw only a very small seasonality due to the strength in old and new products. Most of the quarter-over-quarter decline was due to an end-of-life of a custom product in Industrial. Revenues down 9% to EUR 236 million. If we back out the sold business of passive optical components that still contributed a year ago. Revenues actually grew more than 6% year- over- year. Adjusted EBITDA dropped stronger than the typical fall-through, which adjusted down to EUR 32 million at 14% adjusted EBITDA margin. However, more than five times higher than a year ago, showing the structural improvement in profitability thanks to Re-establish the Base. Why down so much? Stronger fall-through than a quarter-over-quarter. Q4 was elevated above the normal trend line due to a one-off accrual effect and strong U.S. dollar.
Q1, however, saw a typical seasonal factory underutilization and some negative mixed effects as customers kept ordering and already phased out low-margin end-of-life products. We move on to slide six on end-market dynamics. Semis in total came in essentially flat with -1% year- over- year. The 6% quarter-over-quarter decline is rather typical. This can be explained by looking at the main verticals. First, automotive, our biggest exposure. Revenues came in 6% down compared to the previous quarter. Currency helped, but also our new sensor project ramped well. The LED inventory correction cycle developed a good playbook during the quarter. The month was still a bit depressed. Last, we saw a book-to-bill of around 0.5 at the beginning of the quarter. It improved steeply to slightly above one in the course of the three-month period and has continued to develop positively since.
There's certainly a lot of uncertainty persisting in the supply chain. You can see this at the short-term ordering behavior, which is regularly below normal lead times. Our customers just do not know themselves exactly what to build. Year- over- year, you see clearly the LED inventory correction cycle taking its toll with 11% down in auto revenues, which is particularly at the very short-term ordering of the OEMs as fulfillment inventories at channel partners are in a normal range. Second, Industrial & Medical. Horticulture revenues are at a seasonal low. The green shoots in terms of demand improvement at our bigger direct Industrial customers are just noticeable in revenues. Street lighting is an important, normally very stable application within professional lighting. However, last quarter, we saw the first projects push out in the U.S. due to federal budget cuts.
The distribution channel did a bit better in Europe and the U.S., China was weak. It still feels the cyclical low is reached with another quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year decline of around 10% each, but we must await any impact of the new tariff regime ahead of us. As mentioned before, the key driver for the reduction in Q1 was the end-of-life of a specific product in Industrial. Third, consumer, where we are mainly supplying sensors to smartphones and wearables. Typical quarter-over-quarter demand reduction. Year- over- year, we could even compensate the exit of the non-core portfolio by new products and ended up with a significant growth of 21%. The new products clearly kicked in, but we also enjoyed some more orders for legacy products. For this, the typical seasonal reduction compared to December quarter was hardly visible. Now let's talk about our products. I'm on slide seven.
We are very proud that further car models featuring our prized EVIYOS headlamp products are hitting the streets. The new Opel Grandland from Stellantis, the mid-size SUV, comes with a 25,000 pixel forward lighting solution. It shows again the attractiveness of this solution, not only for the high end of the market. On top, one of the leading innovative Chinese EV makers has decided to launch the 25,000 pixel forward lighting in its latest flagship model. I will tell you more about it in the next quarter. This is just the beginning. Further models from various car makers will launch with EVIYOS on board in the quarters to come, currently turning the significant design win basis of around EUR 500 million into revenues. Q1 saw not only EVIYOS making it more and more to the market, but also other great developments. Let us take a look at slide eight.
Continuing with automotive, we are proud of a design win for hands-on detection with a major Chinese EV maker. It was chosen by this EV maker as a key element for its intelligent driving system. Next, I mentioned a couple of quarters ago that we see opportunities in leveraging our ASIC capabilities into our automotive customer base. Now we are making first inroads. We are providing open system protocol LED driver chips to a customer that ams OSRAM has been working with for many years. Switching gears to I&M, we could land a big design win in the X-ray sensor space for computed tomography at an Asian customer. Lastly, to consumer, we developed a unique optical heart rate sensor that features in a wearable device that allowed for unprecedented precision, especially when you're performing sports.
Unfortunately, we cannot go into more detail for confidentiality reasons, but we're extremely proud of this achievement. Moving on from top line to bottom line, the Re-establish the Base program has been pivotal in improving and structurally stabilizing our bottom line. Slide nine here. End of December, our realized run rate savings stood at about EUR 110 million. Implementation is pushed forward without a pause. As such, we can report about EUR 135 million of implemented run rate savings at the end of the first quarter. We will see the effects when we come to the guidance for the next quarter in a bit. Just for completeness, we upsized the program, as you remember, to EUR 225 million run rate savings by the end of 2026 in Q3 last year. All necessary measures and actions are in detail identified and specified and are now in execution. With that, it's time for the financials.
Rainer, please tell us what happens during the first quarter.
Yeah, thank you, Aldo. Hello everyone from my side as well. We are on page 10 now. First quarter operating cash flow came in at just EUR 10 million compared to EUR 79 million in the December quarter. Several effects that are kind of sometimes positive and sometimes negative all happened to be negative in Q1. Inventories went up and accounts payable went down. Some customer payments came a day or two late because the 31st of March was a bank holiday in Singapore, the major settlement hub in Asia. We saw some negative effects from FX swaps. Finally, as you know, Q1, as well as Q3, had the big coupon payments. To compensate, we increased factoring while we also reduced reverse factoring the first quarter. As you know, for the volumes of that, the net interest paid is always included in the definition.
On CapEx, just EUR 52 million in the first quarter, that means a ratio of 6% CapEx to sales well below our average target ratio of 8%. Looking at inflows from divestments, we recorded EUR 40 million in Q1 from selling unused land and equipment. On the free cash flow, reported free cash flow ended up with a minus EUR 28 million. Without that bank holiday, we would be looking at neutral, slightly positive free cash flow in Q1, which was my internal guidance to our treasury department. We switched to slide 11, net earnings and earnings per share. On the left, the adjusted figures, the adjusted net result improved year- over- year from -EUR 35 million to a still -EUR 23 million. However, the underlying improvement in profitability aims to R e-establish the Base is evident. Quarter-over-quarter adjusted earnings per share turned slightly negative from EUR 3 in Q4 to -EUR 23 in Q1.
Net financing result was EUR 65 million. Income takes about EUR 60 million. For the full year, we expect tax expense to be in the order of EUR 60 million. Now, the IFRS net result improved by EUR 639 million to negative 82 in Q1 compared to a year ago. Last year, in February, we had the cancellation of the micro LED cornerstone project that had led to significant write-offs. With that, diluted earnings per share came in with -EUR 83 in the first quarter. Now, switching gears from P&L to balance sheet. Here you find on page 12, the latest update on that liquidity and maturity. End of December, we had EUR 1.1 billion cash on hand. On March 7th, we paid back as planned the EUR 447 million to the holders of the 2025 convertible with that cash. We had already refinanced that, as we know, in 2023.
We had the money. With that, the cash on hand position reduced to EUR 573 million by end of March. Cash is also down 20 million due to FX effects, right? The money we have on US dollar accounts for the change in FX rates. EUR 15 million of minority shares were tendered and the cash flow, as you know, as I said before, was EUR 28 million negative. In 2026, we have bilateral facilities of around EUR 110 million that will become due. In 2027, we have the next bigger one, which is the convert. In 2029, the high yield bonds and the value of the Malaysia Sale-and-Lease Back transactions stood at EUR 429 million end of Q1. That is actually down from EUR 441 million end of December again due to the heavy devaluation of the Malaysian ringgit during the first quarter, despite the regular quarterly accrual of the lease paymentsom
This brings us to a slightly increased net debt position of EUR 1.9 billion compared to end of December. The outstanding minority put options stood at EUR 750 million, was 13% of outstanding shares end of March. Minority shares with a value of EUR 15 million were tendered in Q1. Our revolving credit facility could, in principle, fully cover an exercise of all outstanding or OSRAM legacy of minority put options. Taking cash, the revolver and bilateral lines into account, our available liquidity remains very strong around EUR 1.2 billion. If you want, you could add to that also some sizable factoring lines that we have. On the right, you find the maturity table of our outstanding debt. Now, completely new theme on page 13. We have been talking about deleveraging and selling assets before, but now, I would say the preparation is completed and we are getting serious.
We want to get below 2x net debt to adjusted EBITDA, as we had said before. To expedite this process, in view of the increasing uncertainties in the economic boundary conditions, we have now defined a five-front approach. First, that's not new. We'll continue to improve profitability and free cash flow to Re-establish the Base and growth in the core business. Also, as we already said, we will strip CapEx to below 8%. By all of this, we will accumulate net cash over time. Second, we continue to expect selling the empty factory in Kulim and getting rid of the Sale-and-Lease Back . This is still an active process, but it's taking time given the volatile environment. No change here.
Third, we are currently working with our banks on extending the revolver, the RCF, by one year to be on the safe side in case that a larger portion of the minority shares would be tendered after the final verdict in the appraisal case. Fourth, we are considering very strategic options for certain assets to generate cash well above EUR 500 million proceeds to speed up the deleveraging. This will allow us to cover a large part of the 2027 convertible bond and the amount of the minority shares potentially recovered by the revolver. The remaining low triple-digit amount that will then still be required for the refinancing, and therefore we will find an adequate instrument.
Finally, fifth, on the back of the positive free cash flow, the higher profitability growth and net debt below 2, we will then have an improved implicit rating, which will allow us to refinance the maturities in much better conditions. Ultimately, and I think I said that before, our goal is to bring interest payments below EUR 100 million per year. With that, let me hand back to Aldo for the summary and outlook.
Yeah, let me summarize the key developments for the first quarter. Thanks, Rainer, for explaining all of that. Now on slide 14, we again show for today delivered revenues and profitability above the midpoint of the guidance. Book to bill improved across all businesses to above one. Execution of the RTB program continues to progress very well and continues to be significantly ahead of plan. We paid back the 2025 convertible note and maintain a strong cash position. We continue to win new attractive businesses at a rapid pace that acknowledges ramp in the market. Rainer just explains our accelerated deleveraging plan. With that, let us look at Q2 and fiscal year 2025 outlook on slide 14. In terms of tariffs, we are mitigating most of the primary impact by renegotiating terms with customers so that at the end of the day, they paid additional levies.
If we decide to reroute production flows wherever possible and sensible, we may incur some transfer cost from Wuxi to Malaysia, for example, but this will not have a major impact on the P&L. The real question is to what extent will global car production be negatively affected or will fewer smartphones be sold? We will all need to see how the situation develops as it continues to be highly volatile on an almost day-to-day basis. Looking at profitability, we continue to be ahead of realizing our run rate savings from Re-establish the Base. This will help stabilizing gross margin improvements and the bottom line as long as the more severe impacts from tariff war do not become too big. Looking at cash flow, we continue to be very strict on CapEx investments and plan for less than 8% of sales, lower than our target operating model.
Q1, as you have seen, came in at 6%, significantly below the target here. Despite the lower predictability for the second half, we continue to expect free cash flow to come in above EUR 100 million, of course, including net interest rate. This includes currently known impacts of tariffs and still has wiggle room for some further uncertainties in terms of the top line. With this, I conclude my remarks, and now, Rainer, I am happy to take your questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Questioners on the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode and eventually turn off the volume from the webcast while asking a question. In the interest of time, please limit yourself to two questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. The first question comes from Janardan Menon from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, and thanks for taking the question. My first question is just on the cyclical aspects of both the automotive and Industrial businesses. In the last few quarters, you have alluded to the fact that you are seeing some cyclical weakness, inventory correction, et cetera, in those segments. Some of the semiconductor peers selling into automotive Industrial, like TI and STM, have talked about a cyclical improvement, especially in Industrial, but also in European automotive. Whereas your comments are sort of very much on the product ramps and seasonality in your outlook statement. I am just saying, are you seeing any kind of a cyclical upturn? If not, why do you think that you are not seeing that, especially in the Industrial and automotive segments, whereas others are?
Yeah, no, thanks for the question. Let me clarify that. I think what I also pointed out is that the book-to-bill had significantly improved throughout the quarter. We've spoken about Q4 being at 0.5, 0.6. We started the quarter in that order of magnitude and during the quarter significantly improved to above one, and it continues to improve also now in the beginning of this quarter. I do agree that the order intake is actually improving pretty much across the board for OS, automotive, but also non-automotive, and in most regions, except at the moment for America, that is a bit weaker in the last weeks. E&M, yeah, we do see, and I think we also referred to that last time, that our Industrial customers that are also business as myself over the last months do see their markets getting slightly better.
We start to see that also now flowing through to us, not massively yet, but at least the direction is the right one. We hope to continue to see that. I think everybody is, of course, questioning what will happen with end customer demand at the end of the day, the second half of the year, when the whole tariff situation, if it would continue, would have perhaps more of an impact. At the moment, actually, the outlook starts to become a bit better compared to where we were a quarter or two quarters ago.
In that context, your guidance for a low double-digit increase, second half versus first half, would you say that that is conservative with some uncertainty of the tariffs built in, or is it as you see your order book right now? How do you describe that?
Yeah, I would see this as realistic. We've always said that it's a combination of design wins becoming revenue and some market normalization. I think what we now, after a couple of quarters, is very low book-to-bill start to see an improvement, but we need that improvement also to deliver this market normalization in terms of revenue in the second half year. I think what we are just, what we're seeing now on the book-to-bill development is also what we need to be able to support that statement. I'm not getting more aggressive, but I'm just seeing more proof points that that second half outlook is looking reasonable. The statement is reasonable.
My second question is on the adjusted EBITDA guidance for 18.5% in Q2. Just to peel that back a bit, what are the paths there? Your Lamps & Systems did extremely well in Q1. Will that be reducing in Q2? Therefore, the semiconductor side is sort of showing most of that increase. How much of that increase will be gross margin versus any kind of OpEx reduction into Q2? Thanks.
Yeah, Jan, it is kind of, I mean, we said the revenue will be a bit down in Q2, right? I mean, there's an FX impact, and there's certainly the seasonality in the traditional business. Despite that, EBITDA margin will go further up. That is our improvement project. They just delivered as expected, and that will come up. If you look further out in the year, you certainly will then see fall through from the stronger second half of the year.
Okay, so it should, based on current visibility, continue to improve through Q3 and Q4.
Yeah, you know that we don't give an annual guidance, but certainly with higher revenue in the second half of the year, there will be a fall through.
Understood. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Robert Sanders from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good morning. Maybe if you could just clarify a bit more about the strategic options and the EUR 500 million, how you get to that number. Would you be open to, for example, a JV of the Lamps business? What kind of options are you considering? How dramatic could it be to your portfolio? Thanks.
Yeah, Rob, we cannot talk about it in more detail. As I said, we are looking at several options currently and talking to potential buyers. I also said it will be well above 500. It is not 500, it is certainly more. Depending on which part we will be selling, that will then also determine the amount we were getting. We not only want those proceeds, we also want to then significantly improve the net debt to EBITDA. We are talking to potential buyers. We are actually talking to them already now. That will then determine which portion of the business we will actually be selling.
Got it. In terms of your lead consumer customer, can you just remind us what the content step-up is? Your main sense of competitor is talking about a $200 million step-up in the second half term content gain. I was just wondering if you could just remind us what you expect for the next platform. Thank you.
We've already seen last year in from Q2 to Q3 a meaningful step-up with the launch of the new sensor product on the part of the portfolio. Now that part will be used basically across the board in the portfolio. You will see another step-up in the second half of this year that we're preparing for right now. I think we have never given specific numbers around that, but you can kind of look at last year what happened to give you a sense of the magnitude.
Okay, so you're syndicating an existing design win across the portfolio, not gaining a new bit of content in the next platform.
For the revenue of this year, that's mainly the case. At the same time, we continue to expand our footprint in this customer with further design wins that will then kick in later.
Okay, thank you.
The next question comes from Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello everyone, and thanks for taking my question. Your book-to-bill has improved quite nicely during the quarter. Do you believe there is a little bit of pulling orders into the book-to-bill today because of the coming tariffs? The second question, you were mentioning some inventory adjustment in optoelectronics in automotive. Do you see any other correction on inventory still ongoing in your other businesses, or do you believe it is almost completed right now and you are back to normal level of inventories in I&M and the consumer business? Thank you.
Yeah, on the second one, I would say that there's nothing really that sticks out. It's pretty much normal with some usual ups and downs, but nothing to be really worried about. On the first one, we see a lot of short-term order behavior, but at the same time, if you look at the book-to-bill, it has improved throughout the quarter and continues to improve. Just logically, if people order now, then it's almost already too late to be ahead of the tariffs. I think the vast majority is more related to the fact that we had a pretty low order entry for quite some time in Q4, and people need to replenish their order book. Otherwise, you can't build the cars.
Even if you build a few cars less, I think they needed to basically place the orders to not get into an allocation situation later in the year where we wouldn't have loaded the factory accordingly. I would more see this as an indirect, somewhat positive sign that our customers continue to believe that overall vehicle build numbers will not change significantly, and they realize that with the low orders that they gave us in Q4, they need to replenish the order book, and they're doing so right now.
Okay, thank you.
The next question comes from Harry Blaiklock from UBS. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I was wondering whether you could help run through the key elements driving free cash flow to over EUR 100 million for the full year. I assume kind of a decent portion is drop-through from the revenue recovery and more from Re-establish the Base. Are there any significant kind of working capital, CapEx, interest changes, or anything else that you would flag that you're expecting?
Yeah, Harry, hi. Yeah, as I said, I mean, Q1 had quite a few kind of negative effects. I mean, that will certainly be normalizing. A big contribution this year will be the payments we were receiving from government subsidies, in this case, from the European Chips Act. , which has now been fully approved, as we disclosed before. That will be a contributor. Certainly, the improving business performance in the quarters to come.
Got it. Then second question just on the cost program. I know kind of you're obviously executing on it well. I know in the past you said kind of you wouldn't look to expand it even further. Could that change in a scenario where tariffs really start to impact the macro backdrop?
At the moment, the main thing that we're doing is trying to accelerate the actions that we have defined. I think the most helpful piece, the other part that, of course, we are executing already upon and will further accelerate, is we have some product lines that were located in our China factory, and we're moving some of those now, which people move, the ones that are relevant for the American market to Malaysia, to also here have an option to kind of sidestep the tariffs. It's not zero in Malaysia, but it's much lower, obviously, than China. Those are really the two areas where I see most traction, and that will be the parts that have the most quickest impact on the cost situation and the competitiveness of our parts.
Thank you both.
Sure.
As a reminder, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one at this time. The next question comes from Sandeep Deshpande from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for letting me on. Two questions, if I may. Firstly, my question is on the tariffs itself. I mean, do you have any supply chain-related issues on the tariffs that will impact your margins in the next few quarters because of tariffs, that retaliatory tariffs or any tariffs in the supply chain? Secondly, my question is on this EUR 500 million+ that you plan to generate through disposals. Are you considering in terms of disposals significant earnings generators that you will dispose because you now think that you want to take the business in a different way? Will there be a structural change in your business, your thinking, associated with potential disposals?
Yeah. I am just starting with the second one. We are looking at options, as Rainer has said. Yes, there also might be meaningful and significant steps. It is clear that if you want to get to proceeds north of EUR 500 million, you have to also sell something that is valuable, logically. In that sense, depending on what direction we finally take, there will be potentially quite some meaningful change to the profile of the group. On your first question, fortunately, so far, no real impact of the tariffs on our supply chain. We have, fortunately, for most of our pre-materials, multi-sourced it and tried also to find sources outside of China as a fallback. In that sense, we are fairly well covered.
Yes, there are some hiccups, and sometimes the exports out of China take a little longer to get the permits, but so far, we have not been having difficulties in getting those permits, and we've been able to keep our supply chain fully loaded. We have for most of our import materials also alternatives. That is not so much the issue. What is painful is the high gold price. That is also an indirect impact of the current uncertainties. At OS, both in wire bonds and also in the chip process, we use quite a bit of gold. That is a meaningful impact that we have to digest. That is, honestly speaking, a bigger financial worry at the moment than the other supply chain issues that you were hinting to.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Reto Huber from Research Partners AG. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my questions. I have two housekeeping-related ones. The first one is, what is the EUR amount of assessments you have included in your guidance for EBITDA? Then secondly, how much sales with your automotive industry is in the Lamps & Systems segment in the first quarter?
I assume you're referring to the delta between EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA, right?
For Q2, please, yeah.
For the what?
If I could just clarify the quarter. Yeah, the delta between reported, so IFRS EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA in the second quarter.
Yeah, I mean, you see the delta wet in Q1. The majority is related to restructuring cost. There is not too much of a change. We'll continue to incur restructuring expenses going forward as we run the re-establishment base program.
Okay, it stays like this. Also for the coming quarters after Q2.
Yeah, we will continue to have restructuring expenses as we execute.
Okay, thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time, so I would like to turn the floor back over to Jürgen Rebel for any closing remarks.
Yeah, thank you, operator. Thanks, everyone, for joining today's call. For your questions, you'll find further material on the website as I mentioned at the beginning. Beyond that, you can always reach out to us at Investor Relations for any further questions, and we'll try, as always, to answer them as quickly as possible. With that, I would like to close today's call, and we're looking forward to speaking to you in a quarter from now.
Take care. Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Good.