Burckhardt Compression Holding AG (SWX:BCHN)
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Earnings Call: H1 2022

Nov 2, 2021

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, wherever you are located, from Winterthur. We would like to welcome you to the Half-Year Results Fiscal year 2021 of the Burckhardt Compression Group. The following four topics we would like to discuss with you today. First, key highlights, market developments. Second, operational review. Rolf Brändli, our CFO, will guide you through the financial results. At the end, we have an outlook for the fiscal year 2021, and also for the fiscal year 2022. Highlights and market developments. In the first half year of 2021, we had a significant order intake also compared to 2020. As you know, 2020 was quite a low order intake, because we have been affected at the beginning of the pandemic.

We could make that up by the end of fiscal year 2020, but the momentum we created by the end of 2020 would actually take us into 2021. We could also improve further our overall profitability. We also had further increase and further orders for hydrogen, which is a very interesting topic for us globally. We could receive and book the world's largest hydrogen liquefaction plant that will be built in about one year from now. We also face some challenges. The supply chain, you all have read it, you all have heard about it.

Currently, the supply chain is not directly affecting us, but we are watching it very carefully, especially when it comes to shipments by the end of the year, by the end of the fiscal year, that we make sure that we can actually recognize sales as we expect. We also still see in North America, and especially in the United States, still hesitation when it comes to investments. We feel some activities on the hydrogen side, but in the traditional business, it's still pretty quiet in North America. We also still face corona-related travel restrictions in some countries. Currently, it's still difficult to get service engineers into China without sending them into quarantine. In some regions in China, they have to go up to three weeks into quarantine. Of course, if they stay longer over there, for a couple of months, then we can do that.

For shorter assignments, it's still sometimes in certain countries, a challenge to send service engineers. I mentioned the corona situation. I think you all are sick and tired of hearing about it. With this slide, I just wanted to show you, it is not over. We are still facing corona, as we all know. I think we also have learned all together to live with it, to work around it. We still have our crisis team where we meet regularly, and we assess the situation on a global scale for the different Burckhardt subsidiaries. We also still work with adequate actions. Health protection, hygiene, distancing is still very important, and we still promote that very strongly for all our Burckhardt subsidiaries. Also follow the local government regulations. I think this is also a key.

Business continuity, this is also key for us. I mentioned it before that we really can recognize sales. Thanks to our employees and to the employee mobilization, and with also weekly monitoring of the supply chain and logistics, we have really managed to continue our business and to supply everything on time. It still will be with us in the future, and we have to work with it. It will not be over with a switch. What's going on in the markets? A short overview, and we also see that later on, gas gathering and processing, as well as the refinery business have been so far pretty quiet. In the refinery business, there is still a lot of capacity available to refine crude oil. In the gas gathering and processing right now, it's also pretty quiet.

However, there we see some increasing activities when it comes to natural gas in the United States, who starts now to export natural gas again. However, we have to make very clear we are not only in the natural gas business. Burckhardt Compression, wherever there is gas, there is Burckhardt Compression. Unfortunately, most of the people when they hear gas, they associate the name gas with natural gas. Gas transport and storage is still going very strong in the marine business, offshore as well as also onshore. The supply of feedstock for petrochemical complexes has increased. This is mostly the LPG business. We had good years, two good years in the LPG business, but we are fully aware, and it has not reached the peak from 2013 and 2014.

We are aware that this will normalize in the next one to two years. Refinery, we already touched on it. There is enough refining capacity around right now. Hydrogen mobility, industrial gas. This is an interesting topic also for Burckhardt Compression. We could further book some orders in 2021 in the first half year, and we are also very positive on the way forward that this is also a topic and an area where we can really contribute globally. It's not only in some areas. We see that globally. We see it in Asia, we see it in Korea, we see it in the Middle East, also Europe. Also the United States is looking into hydrogen mobility and energy. Last but not least, petrochemical. The petrochemical business. Industrial plastic is still going very strong. One area that's pushing right now this business is solar panels.

As you probably know, solar panels have a protective foil on top and at the bottom of the solar panels, and this is LDPE, this is plastic which is produced with the hyper compressors. We also need plastic for different, many different other industrial applications, and also for cars, for mobility, also for wiring, for the protection of wires and whatever is around, also for computers. This demand is still very high. Operational review. The Systems Division, we had an order increase of 78%, compared to last year. As you know, the first half year last year was pretty quiet because of the pandemic. We also, with the exception of gas gathering and processing and refinery, we saw an increase in all areas. We touched on that already before on the slide.

We also received further orders on LNGM and LPG. I mentioned that also in the segment before, whereas on LPG, we saw a little peak in the last two years, and it will normalize in the next one to two years and in the years to come. The sales, as expected, was below the strong prior year period, but it will come with a second strong half of 2021. The gross margin is slightly above prior year due to more favorable product mix. We still had, at the beginning of 2021, an underload in our factories because of the missing orders from the previous year. That has changed now after the summer vacation, and all our factories are well loaded. What do we expect for the second half of fiscal year 2021?

Sales will be above the first half-year, and EBIT margin will also be above the level of first half-year 2021 because of the already mentioned before higher utilization of our factories. Services Division, also here we could see an order increase by 11.2%. We have to keep in mind that last year we had a ten-year service contract in a low double-digit million numbers included. That was very unique last year. But even with this included, we could see an increase in 2021. Sales increased by 26.7%.

We see globally a higher volume in field service and also engineering revamp repair, especially engineering revamp repair, where we are allowed again to go to job sites, to look at compressors, to look at machines, to look at projects and quote revamps, quote larger engineering projects that really helped. Field service is still in certain areas, a challenge as mentioned before, to bring the people in, especially on short notice, because of the restrictions we also see at the sites of our customers. We had a significant higher gross profit margin and EBIT margin compared to 2020 first half. We also have to say, as we commented already a year ago, that was quite low, we saw in the last year. We also saw the higher capacity utilization overall, as mentioned before.

What do we expect for the second half of 2021? We again, also here, we expect significantly higher sales to reach our target. We also see an EBIT above first half year 2021, and we expect an EBIT margin overall for the year at the same level than we saw in 2021 for 2020, sorry, for the full year. With this, I would like to hand over to Rolf, who will give you some more insights about the financials.

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Thank you very much, Marcel, and welcome to our half year result broadcast also from my side. I will now guide you through the financials starting from slide 12. Total order intake was amounting to CHF 450.7 million, a significant increase of 48.7% compared to the prior year level, or 47.3% excluding the effects of currency translation. The order intake at the Systems Division increased by 78% to CHF 303 million. Except for the two segments, gas gathering and processing, and also the refinery, all other businesses recovered and exceeded the pre-pandemic levels. We continued to receive orders in the maritime sector, both for LNG and LPG, in the prior year on the period under review.

We also saw an increased order volume for applications in hydrogen, mobility and energy. The Services Division generated order intake amounting to CHF 147 million, an increase of 11.2%. At that time, worth to be mentioned, it included also a ten-year service agreement in the low double-digit million amount, from a customer in the marine business, if we compare it with the prior period. As shown on this next slide here, number 13, total sales decreased by 9.1% to CHF 268.5 million year-over-year, respectively 10% if we exclude the effects of currency translations. Sales at the Systems Division was well below the strong prior year period and ended the half year at CHF 140.1 million.

This drop was expected and guided accordingly since we had a significantly lower order intake in the first half of the last fiscal year. The Services Division reported sales amounting to CHF 128.4 million. That's a +26.7% compared to last year, with higher volumes in field services and engineering, repair, and revamp. How did the profit margins develop over the past six months? Total gross profit increased by 11.9% to CHF 82.5 million, which resulted in a gross margin of 30.7%. The significant increase compared to last year is mainly caused by a substantially higher share of the Services business within the overall sales mix. While both the Services and, to a smaller extent, also the Systems Division generated higher gross margins.

Total selling and general administrative expenses came to CHF 51.9 million or 19.3% of sales. That's an increase of CHF 7.9 million compared to the prior year. The increase is mainly related to more sales activities, especially in the hydrogen application area, besides a slight increase in traveling activities. In the Services business, SG&A expenses are now close to pre-corona levels as we had them in 2019. Worth to be mentioned, if we compare year-over-year, the last year included CHF 2 million reductions in expenses from corona-related government subsidies. Total spend in research and development rose by CHF 2.4 million to CHF 9.3 million in the first half year. That's reflecting the higher number of ongoing projects, including those in the area of hydrogen mobility and energy.

Other operating income was up by CHF 1.8 million, and that included some positive one-off effects. The EBIT at group level increased slightly to CHF 26.3 million, yielding an EBIT margin of 9.8%, which is 100 basis points above the prior year level. The tax rate for the first half of 2021 was at 23.6%. That's similar to the last year period. Net income closed at CHF 17.9 million, CHF 1.1 million below the last period, which has to do also with the financial expenses. While the tax rate was the same, in the financial expenses, we have to consider that we have CHF 100 million bonds that we issued last year with a coupon of 1.5%, which is higher than the financing expenses we had before.

We also had some static foreign exchange effects included in the financial results. The significant increase in earnings per share from CHF 473 to CHF 525 for the first six months is resulting from the reduction in minority interests after we have acquired the remaining 40% of Shenyang Yuanda Compressor last year. On the next slide, let's have a quick look at the balance sheet. Property, plant, and equipment decreased by 12.7%, mainly as a result of the netting of the new real estate that we built in Shenyang with related grants from the local Chinese government. Inventories lowered by 13%, given the lower level of work in progress as per the closing date. Trade accounts receivables ended the half year at CHF 229 million.

That's CHF 27 million above the prior year period, following quite a high invoicing cycle that we had this September. The aging structure of accounts receivables, mainly in China, is stable with a slightly positive downward trend. The positive balance between advanced payments from customers and the work in progress that we have for our running projects, advanced payments to suppliers, ended with a positive amount of CHF 50 million by the end of September, which gave us a very positive swing in the net operating assets, considering that the period before we were at -CHF 35 million.

As a result of the recognition of minorities from the acquisitions of the remaining 40% in Shenyang Yuanda Compressor, but also the goodwill offset from the JSW acquisition of the compressor business of JSW, of course, the equity ratio came to 25.9%, compared to 34.1% prior to those acquisitions in the prior year period. The net debt improved to CHF 51 million, driven by according improvements within the net operating assets. In addition to the earlier mentioned bonds, over CHF 100 million, with a term till 2024, our liquidity is secured with adequate operational credit lines that we have in place. Capital investments.

On the CapEx side, we expect for the full year an amount in the range of CHF 22 million, which is pretty close to what we have in terms of depreciation and amortization. It's mainly for machinery, equipment, tools, some software and hardware. Last but not least, a brief look at our cash flow statement. Total cash generated from operating activities was CHF 14 million, below the prior year, while there was less cash out from investing activities since the prior year period included CHF 21 million cash out for the JSW business. Total borrowings ended the half year at CHF 178 million. That is CHF 30 million below the year-ago figure, and it is including the bond in the amount of CHF 100 million. As per the balance sheet closing date, the resulting net debt position was amounting to CHF 51 million.

That's an improvement of CHF 17 million year-over-year. With this, I hand over back to Marcel, who is going to give you now an outlook on the second half in more details of the running fiscal year. Thank you very much for your attention.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Thank you very much, Rolf. Looking at what our key priorities are in the second half of 2021, as already touched before, to ensure the supply chain and logistics so that we can deliver what we have to deliver in the second half. In a challenging environment, so far we have been lucky and I would say the shortage in some materials has not really affected us. There we are in a good position because we are buying homeopathic amounts of certain materials and not large amounts, and we could always find a way and suppliers who supply that. Also on the electronic side, we are not really affected by the chip business where there is a shortage. So far, I feel quite confident that we can also supply in the second half what we have to supply.

We further want to optimize cost on the Systems side through procurement process optimization. We are still working on it on variant management. Of course, the hydrogen business, I touched already twice on that. We further push the hydrogen in mobility and energy, and we have also increased the sales force. That has also been seen in the SG&A. Some of the SG&A costs before Rolf showed that we really make use of the opportunities we currently globally have. We have also been successful already with Shenyang Yuanda export products, and we wanna further push that. We have gotten quite some success, and we have quite a nice load at Shenyang with export products and export machines. On the Services side, as you probably have realized, Arkos had a black zero in the first half of 2021.

We wanna further improve that because as you all know, this is not the level we wanna keep. We still aim for a 10% EBIT margin for Arkos. I think we are on a good way, and also the load of the Arkos service people is right now by about 70%, which is quite good already, considering that we had in the bad times about 40%. It's still not where we want to have the load, but it's increasing every day. We wanna push digital products, and there I can also refer to our website. We have made a special website where we talk about digitalization. Please take a look on that, where we actually post success stories. We have already quite nice success stories in land-based installation, but also in marine applications. Please take a look on it.

We also wanna continue to move to localize business and resources. I think especially with service engineers, we have seen it's quite an advantage having the people localized, and we don't have to travel so much with the quarantine, with the restrictions we have. I think we have managed that quite well. We still wanna further work on that. Of course, we wanna further materialize from the service volume of our installed base, our own installed base. We see there also potential, but also still on the JSW business which we have acquired. Financial guidance has not been changed. We still guide sales CHF 620 million-CHF 650 million. I think we have already discussed the last time why we have this range, because we have in March quite some large hydrocarbon projects, petrochemical projects.

We are also confident that we will reach that level. EBIT margin, as we already have guided in the past, the second half will be above the first half of 2021. For 2022, the guidance has been unchanged. We are confident with the order intake we reached last year. When you look at order intake compared to sales, you realize that we have built up backlog. With the backlog we have, we are confident that we will reach CHF 700 million and also the 10%-15% EBIT margin. With this, we would like to close our short presentation for the first half year, 2021. Now, Rolf and myself, we would be open to answer any questions you have.

The first question for fiscal year 2021, 2022, do you see a double-digit EBIT margin on group level? I would assume this is fiscal year 2022. 2021, we still have to work on it, but 2022, and it's also a little bit looking into the crystal ball, but I see actually the possibility we can reach a double-digit EBIT margin. We're also working on that for 2021. The next question, order level expected for H2 compared to 2H 2020 and 1H 2021. Now it gets a little bit difficult because we compare 2H 2020, 1H 2021. We still see also in the second half of 2021, this is the one we just have started, very good order intake, also especially in the three segments, petrochemical, gas transport storage, and also hydrogen.

We still actually see the momentum we started in the first half year swapping actually into the second half. Next question, can you quantify the revenue with hydrogen energy mobility solution in H2? What can we expect for fiscal year 2021? We have started that business. That business is still a small part of our overall business. I would say for 2021, I see somewhere on the overall sales plus minus about 5% of H2 business, which we see actually more coming in in 2022 and also in the coming years. You highlight higher R&D and marketing costs to support the H2 business. How and where is this money spent? That's something I give over to Rolf.

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Well, we never gave out a breakdown in R&D, the detailed process for obvious reasons. Some of them are also confidential. We have a lot of improvement on equipment. We do not have to reinvent the compressors as such, of course. We have a lot of experience in H2 for other applications, so it's more in the component area. It's in applications where we have no lubrication systems and so on. That's where we spend the money on R&D.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

We can also tell you, and we can promise you, we have no time and no money to spend in hype engineering projects. I can tell you the money is really well spent and really in projects which also give us future opportunities in business. The next one. Will fixed cost further increase, or is the level sustainable now?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

I can take that question. Thank you very much. Indeed, if you look at it from a, well, from a point of view as a percentage of sales, we are currently at 19.3% SG&A over sales. However, if you compare that with order intake, it's 11.5%. Pre-corona level, or back in 2019, we stood at 15.3% in terms of order intake, and 14.8% as a percentage of sales. Overall, given the high volume, we are on a good track, also on a benchmark level, in the industry. I think, that's sustainable at this level. We, as I mentioned earlier, on the service side, we are at pre-corona level. It came up again to this level. On the system side, it's very much in line with the high volume.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

The next question: Can you please talk about the margin outlook for Arkos and how this will develop in H2 after the black zero in H1? Two, you were targeting double-digit orders for hydrogen mobility this year, but it would appear you have already achieved this in H1 with good momentum in H2. How much should we now expect for the fiscal year? Rolf, you wanna take the first part, I'll take the second part?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Yes. Arkos, this black zero was an achievement for this first half. That's obviously not what we want for the full fiscal year. I think somewhere in the middle range of a single-digit EBIT margin is possible for the current fiscal year. Overall then, and for the next fiscal year, which is then also the end of our mid-range plan, the target remains very clear to approach a double-digit EBIT margin for Arkos.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

The second question with the hydrogen business, this is correct. We had a nice momentum already in H1. We take this momentum into H2, and as I said before, I'm expecting, or we are expecting somewhere about 5%, 6%, 7% order intake on the overall order intake of the BC group. In hydrogen, of course, we also have a business plan and that will increase then for 2022. The next one. Isn't CHF 700 million sales in 2022 becoming conservative? Yes, maybe. I hope it's okay if we are not saying any more. I think the CHF 700 million, that was our target we had in the mid-range plan we developed five years ago. Yeah, looking at the numbers, that might be a possibility.

Order growth in 2H compared to 2H 2020 and 1H 2021, I think this is already something we answered before. We see the momentum also in the second half on the service side, but also on the system side, that this is going on, and we are expecting that we also will have in the second half of 2021 a nice order intake. Did you pay the second part of SYCC acquisition already in full? Maybe, Rolf, you can take that.

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

No, we retained part of the payment, which is somewhere in the magnitude of CHF 50 million, for early calendar year 2022, so that will still be this fiscal year. That's approximately happening in February 2022.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Next question: Do you have enough capacity for this large demand? Will there be delays? That's a excellent question. We are building up currently capacity, but we're also building up temporary flexible capacity, because we also have learned from the past, and we do not wanna get into a hire fire mentality at Burckhardt Compression. Will there be any delays? There will not be any delays because of capacity we do not have, because we have now five factories all over the world. As I mentioned before, there will be, which I do not see right now at all, delays maybe when the supply chain is a problem or when we have a problem with ships being available at the right time, but this is something when we know that we can work in advance. I actually do not expect any delays.

You stated that your factories are running well. What about the Korean plant? Is it still available for LNGM? Very good question. We have used currently the Korean plant also to build Labyrinth Piston Compressors for the petrochemical business, because we had quite a nice order intake in petrochemical business. Yes, that plant is still available, and we have the flexibility anytime when orders come in for LNGM, and the focus is really that LNGM, they come in right now, we build them in Korea because that's where they are close to the ships. For the 40% purchase price for Shenyang, CHF 100 million, the CHF 50 million is deferred to when? And is the assumption right that the deferred CHF 50 million is currently booked under non-current financial liabilities and it's not yet reflected in your debt definition?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Thank you for that question. I think the first part has been answered before. It's around February 2022, the when. It's under other current liabilities, less than 12 months. Is it reflected in the debt definition? No, it's not part of the net debt at this point in time. We only have the bank debts included there.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Is hydrogen also service business? How are you received by ESG investors? Hydrogen definitely also generates service business in a similar way than all the other applications we have, too. Of course, you can imagine with a certain time delay, whereas on the hydrogen side, the time delay is not as long as is in the petrochemical business or other businesses. Normally, when we receive a hydrogen order, I would say about 24 to 30 months later, we will also see service activities. Of course, the hydrogen business, since it's differently structured and it has to do also with supply for cars, trucks, and all this, digitalization plays a very important role in that. How are you perceived, or how are we perceived and how we received by ESG investors?

I would say the feedback we are getting, and as you know, we try and, if you look at our share price, it's still in correlation with the oil price, which I do not understand why, because I mentioned the oil before in the refinery business. We are in the gas business. Natural gas business is only part of it. There are so many different gases all over the world. Gas has become a real important energy source for the future. Because if we wanna get rid or we wanna reduce the oil demand, we have only gases. We have hydrogen as an example, which we can produce out of water. We need CO2 to actually produce and to generate artificial or e-fuel, what we call it.

There are many, many other gases who are then a source, an energy source for our products we need in the future. If you don't have the liquids anymore, we have to go to the gases. I think some investors have already realized how Burckhardt also plays an important role in this green alternative energies on the way forward, and we will play even a more important role. The sales target for CHF 700 million now too low given the high order intake. True. Yes. Will 2H sales in Systems be above 2H 2021, given the strong order intake? I assume that's probably the strong order intake in the first half we had right now.

As I said before many times, we see the momentum right now swapping over also into the second half, and, I think I'm quite positive that we also will see a strong order intake in the second half. What's driving the LPG boom, and can it reach the level of the last cycle? Has your market position changed since the last cycle, and can you generate the same revenue and margins? To answer the last, question, the margins, yes. Revenue, definitely not, because we are not in the same cycle we saw between 2013 and 2016. We have seen a slightly higher increase of LPG business the last two years. That means in 2020, and in 2021. If you look out right now, as per my latest knowledge, there are about 300 LPG carriers running.

There is not a lot of desire to actually scrap them because they are quite new. There was a demand in 2020 in the future on the years to come for another 100 LPG carriers. If you look at the order intake we had, I think we had a higher order intake than average, but it was not at the peak we had in 2013. As I said, for 2022 and also for 2023 and in the years to follow, I see an average order intake in LPG between CHF 30 million and CHF 40 million. You mentioned the positive downward trend in the aging structure of receivables. At which level are they currently, especially for China? Rolf?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Thank you for that question. It's a slightly positive trend I mentioned, so it's really going down. We had back in 2018, about CHF 64 million overdue more than 90 days in China. Currently, we have CHF 229 million on the balance sheet, overall accounts receivables. Of that, as per closing date, CHF 54 million are overdue in China more than 90 days. There are new positions coming in. I think important is that it recycles. The position is not static. Some new are coming in into the more than 90 days overdue. Our people locally there in Shenyang, they do a great job talking to customers over and over again, so we get paid at the end of the day.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Next question. You mentioned the weak investment climate in the U.S. When do you expect that to increase? That's an interesting question. If I would know, yeah, that would be nice. Look, my personal opinion is, once the U.S. government starts to actually invest in their infrastructure, also our customers will invest in their infrastructure, which is the petrochemical plants, the refineries. Currently, it's, and this is not unusual in the United States. One gets a little bit the feeling the plants are running and running and running, and if something breaks, then, okay, just let's fix it. We see increasing business in the gas business, in the pipeline business, in the gas processing business, where also Arkos in the midstream business is quite active. We see also increasing downstream business.

Right now with new machines or replacement machines in old plants, it's still pretty quiet. I would say once the whole thing, the investment path starts, then also our customers will invest. Of course, if the prices for some raw material, especially petrochemicals, will stay at a higher level, then I also see that the customers will invest. Currently, it's still as a supplier, it's a little bit sometimes an uneasy feeling because you think, "Oh, what happens if something breaks over there? Are they really running at the limit?" I do not hope so, but I can imagine that we will see it soon, whatever soon means. Can you give some more info about the government grants? When will you have to pay them back, Rolf?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Well, we do not have to pay anything back. Last year, we had for the first six months of 2020, $2 million in government grants. They are forgiven. We don't have to pay them back. For the full fiscal year, it was about $6 million that we got, but there is no paying back of them. We currently have a process running in the U.S. where we get the cash up front, and there is a lengthy procedure in place for all the companies in the U.S. who were given those grants to ask for forgiveness. This process has been launched and is in the process. We are very confident to get that any time soon, as also forgiven.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

The next question I was expecting. I was actually expecting it already earlier. How far are you with the succession of the CEO? The process is still going on, and as soon as we have news, we will inform you immediately. Lead times of orders from 2H 2020 and the same for 1H 2021, explain revenue recognition. Do you wanna do that or shall I do that, Rolf?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Well, I mean, we have. Each contract is individual. We have, on average, I would say about 12 months lead time, for these, kind of jobs. Some more ex-works, some more FOB and so on. There's not much more we can comment on that.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Where do you see your role in hydrogen economy? Can we expect more partnerships? I think on the way forward, since we have all the technologies available and we can provide from the smallest fuel gas hydrogen station to the largest liquefaction plant, we can provide everything. Burckhardt will really play a significant role in the hydrogen economy. Of course, we work on partnerships. Of course, we are not doing any joint ventures. We do also not investments in other companies because we cannot invest our shareholders' money. Partnership, we do. The interesting part is in this hydrogen economy, you always need compression equipment. That's the good thing. People talk to us, they work with us.

Of course, you have seen recently a press release where we work with a customer closely to develop a new product for the fuel station. We can imagine, and you see on this hydrogen economy, important is that we realize we have not to do everything on our own, that we have to find the right partners to be successful in this economy. Yes, we will work on further partnerships. What is your comfort level net debt, EBITDA, and/or do you have any upper limit?

Rolf Brändli
CFO, Burckhardt Compression Group

I would say currently 2x-2.5x . That's a kind of a comfort level. Do we have an upper limit? We definitely have no financial covenants agreed with banks related to that. I would also not want to fix myself on that one on the short term. There might be some specific, M&A constellations down the road, but 2x-2.5 x is the comfort level.

Marcel Pawlicek
CEO, Burckhardt Compression Group

Any visibility on Qatar tanker orders? We hear certain things moving on. It's going slowly right now. That has also the Qataris, they have time still to negotiate with the ship builders in Korea. We hear certain things that it might start right now, end of this year, beginning of next year, the first tranche of ships, but we have to see what is going on. Can you give some more color on the large hydrogen order you received? Where is this project? When is revenue recognized? This is, as I said, it's the largest hydrogen liquefaction plant. The order is in Asia. I know this is a large area, but I hope it's okay if I'm not going too deep into details. Revenue will be recognized in 2022.

Okay, with this, we are already at the end of the Q&A session. I would like to thank you all for listening to us. I would like to thank you all for your interest in Burckhardt Compression. We hope Sandro, Rolf, and myself that one or the other we will see in the roadshow the next couple of days. Please stay healthy. I wish you and your family all the best, and take care and see you soon.

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