Earnings Call: Q2 2021

Jul 29, 2021

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Clariant Second Quarter First Half Year Results 2021 Conference Call and Live Webcast. I am Sandra, the Chorus Call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen only mode and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q and A session. At this time, It's my pleasure to hand over to Andreas Schwarzwelder, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you, Sandra, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Andreas Schwarzwelle speaking. It's my pleasure to welcome you to Clariant's Q2 2021 Results Conference Call and Live Webcast. Joining me today are Konrad Keiser, CEO and Stefan Linnen, the CFO of Clariant. Konrad will start the review followed by Stefan, who will guide you through the detailed results and provide a short term outlook for the group. Konrad will then conclude with comments on Clariant's full year 2021 outlook. There will be a Q and A session following our presentation. And as Sandra said, at this time, all participants are in listen only mode. The slides for today's presentation can be found on our website along with the Q2 media release and the half year financial review. I would like to remind all participants that the presentation includes forward looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Listeners and readers are therefore encouraged As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and a replay will be available on our website. As a final housekeeping comment, please note that all figures discussed refer to continuing operations unless specifically as noted otherwise. Let me now hand over to Conrad to begin the presentation. Thank you, Andreas. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome you to our Q2 2021 results conference call. As you can see on Slide number 3, In the Q2 of 2021, Clarion delivered strong sales growth. Sales increased by Local currency with a 7% volume increase and a 5% contribution from price. We saw a broad demand recovery across all businesses and across all regions. Breaking this development down by business area, our Natural Resources business area delivered strong sales growth of 17% in local currency. This was driven by particularly strong demand in functional minerals and adhesives. These businesses benefited from a recovery in automotive production and from continued strong demand for our flame retardants in electrical and electronics markets. We further saw a return to growth in our oil services business. Care Chemicals sales rose by 11% in local currency in the 2nd quarter, supported by double digit sales growth in industrial applications. Catalysis sales rose by a notable 7 in particular our zeolite catalyst for emission control for transportation in Europe and India. Clariot is well positioned for the strong industrial recovery, which continued in the 2nd quarter. We also benefited from solid consumer demand despite a challenging comparison base versus the previous year. Our 2nd quarter sales were approximately 5% above pre COVID-nineteen pandemic levels on a currency adjusted basis. Disregarding the pricing effect, the Q2 2021 sales volume was slightly higher than the levels achieved in 2019, showing an important demand recovery. On Slide number 4, we see that our profitability improved strongly in the 2nd quarter. The reported EBITDA increased by 28 percent to CHF 173,000,000. The corresponding EBITDA margin rose by 220 basis points to 16.8%, While the underlying EBITDA margin rose by 140 basis points, was entirely driven by the operating leverage from the strong volume and the benefits from our performance improvement programs. The successful execution of Clarion's efficiency programs generated additional cost savings of CHF9 1,000,000 in the Q2. This is a key proof point of our progress, which we do expect to continue. Additionally, the pricing measures of +5 percent largely offset the raw material cost increase in the mid percentage range, which we experienced in the Q2. Finally, we're pleased to See that our underlying profitability in the 2nd quarter clearly exceeded pre COVID-nineteen pandemic levels. On slide number 5, we can see that Clariant concluded its divestment program. During the Q2, we signed definitive agreements to divest our pigments business, which is a critical step in our portfolio transformation program. We achieved an attractive base valuation with further short and midterm upside potential through 2 additional earnout steps. The base enterprise value of CHF805 1,000,000 could be improved by an earn out of CHF 50,000,000, which would result We see additional upside by reinvesting alongside our partners, Heuwach Group and SK Capital. This will allow us to benefit from the efficiency programs, which we initiated in the pigments business and also to benefit from the growth potential and synergies of the newly combined business. Attractive exit options for Clariant have also been agreed upon. Let me remind you that the closing of this transaction is expected to take place in the first half of twenty twenty two. As you can see on slide number 6, one of the key achievements in the second quarter was the successful establishment of the joint venture with India Glycos to become a leading green ethylene oxide derivatives supplier. It is an important milestone for Klaviyant to become one of the leading surfactant suppliers in India with a focus on Renewable Solutions for Home and Personal Care. The joint venture will be consolidated as of the 1st July And we anticipate incremental sales of approximately CHF 50,000,000 in the second half of twenty twenty one. With that, I would now like to hand over to our CFO, Stefan Boonen, who will provide further details on the quarterly results. Thank you, Konrad. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon and welcome to today's call from my side. Let me substantiate the strong quarterly results Konrad referred to with the financial performance details starting on Slide 7. In the Q2 of 2021, Clariant generated group sales of CHF1 1,000,000,000, an increase of 12% in local currency. This development was attributable to growth in all three business areas. The positive 5% pricing impact helped propel growth, while in contrast, the currency depreciation against the strong Swiss franc impacted sales by negative 1%. This was primarily attributable to the devaluation of Latin American currencies and the U. S. Dollar versus the Swiss franc. In total, this resulted in an 11% sales increase in Swiss francs. On an absolute basis, the reported EBITDA reached CHF173 million compared to CHF135 million in the Q2 of 2020, an increase of 28% in Swiss francs. This development was positively influenced by an improving operating leverage From strong volume expansion of 7%, the successful execution of pricing measures of 5% And the efficiency program was €9,000,000 savings as well as the continued cost discipline amid the COVID-nineteen pandemic. All performance programs, also the efficiency programs in discontinued operations and the rightsizing program remain well on track. We are confident regarding the progress of our pricing actions, which will continue to facilitate our ability to pass on Full raw material cost inflation of mid teen percentage range in Q2. The global production network and the Agile execution of the business continuity programs by our colleagues helped to mitigate the impact of disruptions in supply chain. As a consequence, the reported EBITDA margin increased to 16.8 in the Q2 of 2021 versus 14.6% in 2020, with an improvement of 220 basis points on reported and 140 basis points on underlying EBITDA. The regional sales development is depicted on Slide 8. Here we see that the sales development in Asia Pacific improved with particularly Strong growth of 20% in local currency, driven by continued economic expansion across all business areas versus a more COVID-nineteen affected Q2 2020. China, our strategic focus area grew by 4% despite the challenging comparison base and by a lofty 20% in the first half of the year. Days in Europe grew by a notable 13% with Germany up by 9%. This development was supported by a rebound in industrial applications and expansion in Additives and Functional Minerals. Sales in the Middle East and Africa rose by 15% with strong growth reflected in all business areas. The 2% higher sales in North America were largely attributable to the recovery in the oil services. So solid 7% sales expansion in Latin America resulted from progress in Care Chemicals and Additives, supported by a continuing strong development in Brazil, where sales rose by a resounding 20%. Let's review the Q2 2021 business area figures in more details, starting with Care Chemicals on Slide 9. Care Chemicals sales increased by a vigorous 11% in local currency and in Swiss francs. Industrial Applications sales clearly recovered and rose at a double digit rate propelled by renewed end market strength and the corresponding demand recovery. This development was supported by the strong expansion in industrial lubricants and construction chemicals. Paints and Coatings again developed positively, a trend which Clans fostered throughout 2020 and thus far in 2021. Consumer Care reported stable sales, while Home Care delivered strong growth. Personal Care was faced with a challenging comparison base particularly high demand for hygiene related products in the Q2 of 2020 due to the COVID-nineteen pandemic. The Care Chemicals' absolute EBITDA increased by an over proportional 51%, which resulted in A significantly improved margin development to 20.1%, a 190 basis points improvement in the underlying EBITDA margin year on year. This increase was attributable to strong volume expansion of 4%, which buoyed operating leverage, the stringent execution of pricing of 7% and the successful execution of efficiency programs. This more than compensated for raw material inflation and mix effects given the stronger growth in industrial applications. Let's move on to Catalysis on Slide 10. In the Q2 of 2021, sales in the business area Catalysis grew by 7% in local currency and by 5% in Swiss francs. The strong sales expansion in Specialty Catalysts was driven by a higher demand for emission control, especially in transportation, while syngas recorded a stable sales development. Petrochemicals saw a lower retail cycle in Q2, but still showed strong growth in the first half. The Q2 absolute EBITDA decreased by 5% to a margin of 19% as a result of the product mix, Project effects and the higher license income attributable to Q2 2020. It is important to note that the first half year twenty twenty one margin is nevertheless above the previous year with 90.3% in 2021 versus 17.3% in the first half of twenty twenty, up by 50 basis points underlying margin. Please keep in mind that due to the project nature of the Catalysis business, we sometimes see normal significant profitability fluctuations. It is therefore important to note that the fundamentals of this business remain absolutely positive. On Slide 11, we see that in the Q2 of 2021, sales in natural resources rose by 17% in local currency and by 16% in Swiss francs with expansion in all three business units. Oil and Mining Services sales grew in a low single digit range in local currency. Oil Services Return to growth, reflecting a significant improvement quarter on quarter. Mining Solutions sales increased in high single digits. The stronger sales expansion in oil and mining took place in the Americas. Functional Minerals sales growth exceeded the teen range as a result of a clear rebound in foundry business. The purification business development also contributed positively to the overall strong improvement. Editor sales rose in the most significantly Amongst the 3 business units with expansion in all regions and in all businesses as the relevant end markets such as the electrical and electronics markets, the automotive sector and fiber applications flourished. In the Q2 of 2021, the absolute EBITDA increased by a substantial 140% And the margin rose to 16.9%, reflecting a 2 50 basis point improvement in the underlying EBITDA margin year on year. This development is driven by strong volume growth of 15% and the resulting operating leverage, execution of pricing of 2% and efficiency measures as well as an accretive mix, which more than mitigated raw material inflation. Let's now move on to discuss some key first half year figures on Slide 12. Sales increased by 7% in local to CHF2 1,000,000,000 with a 4% volume increase and a 3% price contribution. This improvement was attributable to all business areas and almost all geographical regions. First half year sales were 3% above pre COVID 2019 pandemic levels on a currency adjusted basis. Disregarding effect, the first half year twenty twenty one sales volumes match the level reached in 2019, thus reflecting a clear recovery. In terms of the first half year reported, EBITDA increased by an over proportional 15% to CHF 337,000,000 And the corresponding EBITDA margin rose by 160 basis points to also exceed pre COVID-nineteen pandemic levels. The 12 month rolling return on invested capital for continuing operations increased to 8% from 7%, Despite the COVID-nineteen pandemic affected second half of twenty twenty, this was driven by the substantial improvement in operating profit over an almost stable average asset base. The first half year total group net result increased to CHF 100 CHF 57 million and was positively impacted by growth, improved profitability, reduced exceptional and corporate costs and the efficiency program based savings. Cash flow before changes in working capital and before taxes paid of CHF397 1,000,000 increased by CHF39 1,000,000 versus the first half of twenty twenty from the rise in operating profit. Seasonally lower operating cash flow for the total group declined to CHF 15,000,000 Due to the negative impact of EUR 316,000,000 from growth driven higher net working capital as well as cash out for the previously provisioned efficiency programs. The relative performance of the net working capital improved. Growth investments in new production plants resulted in higher expenditures in property, plant and equipment of CHF 130,000,000. This covers innovative and sustainable growth projects such as the new sun liquids and cut off in plants. Let me conclude my review with the short term outlook on Slide 13. In the Q3 of 2021, Clariant's continuing operations, we expect to generate strong local currency sales growth in a year on year comparison, underpinned by expansion in all three business areas. We also aim to increase the EBITDA margin level on a year on year basis via volume growth, pricing actions to mitigate raw material inflation, Cost savings and cost discipline. However, the EBITDA margin development is likely to be slightly lower sequentially. The underlying assumptions for the business areas in the Q3 of 2021 are as follows. In Care Chemicals, We anticipate a continued recovery in industrial applications, improving consumer demand and a positive contribution from the India Glyco joint venture. We expect these developments to result in strong local currency growth in Q3 'twenty one versus Q3 'twenty 20. Although mitigations are in place, we expect that the EBITDA margin to be below the previous year high level, But we are aiming to defend the strong margin level sequentially despite the raw material inflation and high logistic costs. In Catalysis, we assume that we will continue to generate moderate year on year sales growth in local currency and are targeting sequentially flat levels. We expect this to translate into EBITDA margins somewhat below the previous year Q3 and anticipate a slight sequential decline due to product mix and project effects. And finally, we anticipate that Natural Resources will again generates strong year on year local currency sales growth in the Q3 of 2021 based on continued expansion in all three business units. Nevertheless, we expect the business area sales to be lower from a sequential quarter on quarter perspective. The EBITDA margin should improve on a year on year basis despite the raw material inflation, while we anticipate a slightly lower sequential margin development. With this positive short term outlook, I close my remarks and hand back to Konrad. Thank you, Stefan. We raised our full year 2021 outlook as you can see on Slide number 15. In the full year 2021, we expect CLARITYANT to achieve local currency sales growth in continuing operations within a range of 7% to 9%, including the consolidated sales of the India Glycos joint venture as of the 1st July. We further expect a step up in our EBITDA margin So a range of 16% to 17% on the back of sales growth, the positive impact of pricing measures, Continued cost controls and the positive impact from our performance improvement programs. This outlook assumes a continued economic recovery, while uncertainty remains. It takes into consideration the following internal as well as external factors. We will continue to successfully execute Our efficiency programs, while at the same time continuing with our effective pricing actions to offset Raw material increases in all of our businesses. We will also continue to benefit from our innovation driven Specialty Portfolio and Growth Investments. We assume that the raw material and logistics challenges will remain in the Q3. We anticipate that a broad based COVID-nineteen Vaccination rollout will support further economic recovery and a continued strong demand in Consumer and Industrial Applications. However, the increasing spread of the delta strain And potential new variants remain a risk to the recovery. In summary, We do see Clariant as being well positioned to come out of the COVID-nineteen pandemic stronger And we are committed to taking the next steps to further improve our performance. It is my pleasure to invite you to Klarion's upcoming Capital Market Day, which will be held on the 23rd November. The format and location will depend on the COVID-nineteen pandemic situation. We're looking forward to present Clarion's strategy update and our financial ambitions to you and we very much hope to be able to do this in person. Meanwhile, we are focused on delivering our full year 2021 operational performance improvements and to deliver on our outlook. With that, I turn the call back over to Andreas. Thank you, Konrad. Thank you, Stefan. Ladies and gentlemen, before we begin the Q and A session, we would kindly ask you that you please limit the number of questions to 2, thus providing more participants with the opportunity to ask a question. Thank you very much for your understanding in advance. We will now open the line for questions. Operator, please go ahead. We will now begin the question and answer session. The first question comes from Andrew Stott from UBS. Please go ahead, sir. Yes. Good afternoon, Carmen, Stephan and Andres. Thanks for the presentation. A couple of questions, please. First one was on Catalysis. So you've been running now 18 months At around a 20% EBITDA margin level. Yes, it's a long way from obviously what we saw in the 3 or 4 years post The acquisition of Sur Camille, it's obviously a long way from your target of 26 to 30. Are you confident you can get back on track? And can you just walk me through some of the key aspects of that without, I guess, stealing too much thunder from the Capital Markets Day? So that's the first question. The second one is hopefully a more straightforward one. I just wonder what the thinking was Around taking a minority stake in a holding company, the €100,000,000 I realize it's not a big lump of your balance sheet, but It just seems a fairly untidy end to disposal. So just intrigued by that. Thank you. Sure. Andrew, well, let me take the second question and then I'll pass the first question on to Stefan. Yes, so in fact, Let's be very clear, this is actually something that was an ask from Clariant. So it was not that spoibas and SK Capital wanted us To take a stake in the new to be creative company, but it was actually a strong desire from Clariant. Why? Because, First of all, we wanted to continue to benefit from the upside, which we see based on the initiated Efficiency improvement programs by the team. Secondly, we definitely didn't want to sell a business at a Sort of a COVID low in terms of revenues. So we also wanted to benefit from the further upside in revenues that we are seeing. And finally, let's not forget this is a merger. So this is a merger of the Clarion's pigment business As well as the Hollybruck business. There is significant synergy coming from this merger and we are obviously eager to benefit from that Synergy as well. So this is an investment of $100,000,000 but it is going to be very much value creative. As far as the question on Catalyst, I refer that To you, Stefan. Yes. So, Andrew, if we go through the Catalyt switching basically, Let's look first at the Q2 before giving you a more fundamental outlook on the development of the Catalysts business towards It's mid term targets. There we have this decline in EBITDA by 50 by 5% year on year. But imagine that this is a very project driven business and in this Q2, we had, for example, much less license income year on year Q2 versus Q2 in the chemical catalysis business as well as the biocatalyst business. Yes, in the first half, we are still up. We are still up seeing a substantial improvement versus the first half of the prior year. And we also we just guided for, let's say, more flattish Q3, but we also see a strong finish of the business in Q4. And fundamentally, looking also into the midterm targets, there are 2 drivers, of course, mainly here. We see at the moment a more pronounced Growth in Catalysis on the emission control side. That was before the India business, now it's India and Europe, which is going to flatten out. And we see the biggest demand building up in our order pipeline on the petrochemical side, Particularly more on the polypropylene and the PDH side, where we have and are investing in the site in the U. S. In the past and the site in China. And that is very accretive to the growth. And third, there is of course our Sun Liquids commissioning of the plant scheduled towards end of the year. And there is a significant ramp up starting 2022 and going then into 2023, which will further accrete to the EBITDA margin of the targeted 26% to 30%. So hearing that development, we are very confident The next question comes from Markus Mayer from Baader Helvea. Please go ahead. Yes. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Two questions, if I may. Come back to Catalysts. Can you give us an indication how the order book trend is looking like? Is it back to 20 eighteen-nineteen levels? Or have you not yet reached this level so far? And then my second question is on the cash flow. Was there any kind of effect also which was It came as a disturbance from the divestments, so inventories or kind of net on capital parts, which are So on the cash flow and moved in a different kind of direction, maybe that would be helpful if you could strip this out. Yes. Thank you, Markus. As far as the catalyst, as commented by Stefan, we have seen a change. We do see a change in the mix right now, but this is not certainly not structural. This is a project business and mix can change from quarter to quarter. Far as the overall sort of revenue that we're seeing, we are seeing a 7% pickup. And let's remind ourselves, our catalyst business Last year in the COVID year only came down by 5%. So yes order book stronger than it was actually Even stronger than at the pre COVID levels. As far as the cash flow, I would like to refer that question to you, Stefan. Yes, Markus. First of all, we do not have any extraordinary effect from discontinuing or from signing pigments on the operating cash flow. The EUR 15,000,000 let's look at what is being generated Before the network capital changes and here you see an expansion to the prior year to EUR 397,000,000 cash flow generation. And that expansion is driven by what we have been saying. We are investing also into the absolute EBITDA expansion of Claret, which is returning to growth and even outgrowing markets, which is taking cost out, Taking the leverage and expanding absolute EBITDA and absolute cash flow. When we talk then about conversion to free cash flow, we also guided that this year, We're looking rather on, let's say, breakevenish free cash flow. Why? Because we are Around into EUR 140,000,000 restructuring program, which in this year leads to also significant amount of cash out like it did in the first half. We are returning to growth. We have the combination of restructuring cash out and growth return is an increase of both of these or is a take off of cash in the first half of 3 €16,000,000 And that is though leading to that absolute EBITDA expansion, while this drainage, if you may say so, is temporarily. So We actually are working precisely on future stronger free cash flow generation By expanding growth, by expanding EBITDA, and as I said in my speech, the relative performance of net working capital is even improving. So you can believe us, We are very tight net on capital control to continue, but we are just in a major, of course, turnaround of the markets and also in taking market positions, And that just leads usually to a higher net working capital tie interim. I understood. But on this net capital change, Can you give us any fair indication what is still coming from the assets which you just divested? If you would strip this out, Would have been the net on capital change in relative terms then similar? Or was this in particular pigments, I guess, at a significant price effect. And as such, there might be Also then, a significant more relevant net from capitalization effect as well. Yes. Well, first of all, We do not report a continuing or discontinue operating cash flow there, at the end only one cash. The second is Traditionally, the reason why we divested Pigments is also because it is more complicated and usually ties more net working capital. But proportionally, I mean, it's just one unit and we're talking about 5 other units. So it does not make a huge significant inflect Or has a huge share in that net working capital increase. But when we divest businesses like Masterbridge and Pigments, yes, are improving also our net working capital performance going forward. Okay, perfect. Thank you. The next question comes from Graham Hunt from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Just 2 for me, please. Firstly, on M and A and I suppose more on the acquisition side, I just wanted to hear Conor, maybe your perspective on what you're thinking around strategic priorities in terms of the divisions and JV in India, you called out the top line addition, but apologies if I missed it. But were you giving any guidance on impact on EBITDA for the second half of the year. Thanks. Great. Thank you. As far as M and A, So after a period of divesting, it's more commodity type business. For Clariant, it is now very much back to growth. 1st and foremost, this is obviously this has to be organic growth, but we will complement this with focused M and A, very much focused on our three Core segments. So we are actually looking at opportunities both in Care Chemicals, Catalysis and as well as Natural Resources. What the priorities are in terms of focus is we are very much looking to Great even further our portfolios in these areas. Sustainability is obviously a strong angle here. And it's nice to see with indium glycols That we actually bring in here a real sustainability play. Indium Glycol actually is the leader right now, the global leader In Green EO Derivative Surfactants. Other priorities for us, growth in Asia, Nicely also here, indianglycol fit that box. Now moving forward, will we be able to bring in companies that both that tick both of these boxes? Maybe not always, but the focus very much is on Asia. The focus is on sustainability. And again, we are committed to make Hold on M and A to strengthen our existing market positions in the 3 core segments. As far as the contributions in the second half, At this point in time, we actually will not, but it's even difficult to disclose or to even have a strong view on the EBITDA contribution in the In the second half from India Glycos, what we've said is, this is consolidated as from the 1st July And it will actually bring CHF 50,000,000 top line, which is not insignificant. Just as a reminder, The €50,000,000 represents 1% of our sales. So in the guide of sales growth 7% to 9%, one Actually is coming from India Pleiku, which highlights the importance of bolt on acquisitions. Thanks, Ernst. The next question comes from Chetan Udeshi from JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Yes, hi. Thanks. I had one simple question, which is, you mentioned about the High restructuring costs, but I'm just looking at the cash flow and it seems the payment for restructuring in first half at least were only CHF 25,000,000. So I'm just thinking how should we be thinking about the sort of cash out on Structuring for the remainder of this year and how much you think flows into next year's numbers? And And the second question I had was on Sun Liquid, do you I mean, firstly, can you confirm whether everything is on track in terms of start up by end of this year or early next year? And secondly, have you seen any change In the market opportunity for Sun Liquid, given the more regulatory portion Maybe, EUR55,000,000 or something like that. But I'm just thinking there's a bit more activity in general on Biofuels globally. And I'm just wondering if you've seen that in terms of your conversations with customers or order book, etcetera. Thanks. Sure. Well, let me take the question on Sun Liquid and I'll pass the question on the cash out as it relates to restructuring to Stefan. Yes. So first, regarding Sun Liquids and your question around start up date, this is all on plan, on targets. We're planning to start up this new plant by the end of this year. In terms of a changed outlook for renewables Or for bioethanol, not a real change. We really see continued strong demand for renewables. And just as a reminder in fuel, what you see in terms of legislation in Europe, there will be a mandate For 3.5% renewables in our gasoline by 2,030 and there's a penalty associated with it. This is actually not even such an ambitious target if you actually look at the levels already used in the U. S. Right now Where you see actually renewables bioethanolcobland at rates as high as 10% on their gasoline markets. So we don't see any delays in start up days and the outlook for this bioethanol remains very positive. Stefan, perhaps The restructuring and the cash out. Sure. Chetan, as I said, we have a total program of around SEK 140,000,000. It's an efficiency program for continuing. There is an efficiency program for pigments to also support the earn out. And then there is the rightsizing of total company avoids stranded costs and target even to accrete. We had last year already a Cash out of around €25,000,000 for that program. So in the first half, we're now at €25,000,000 We see today a bit of an higher amount in the second half as opposed to the first half. So this year would be probably the strongest year of cash out. Because the rightsizing activities, they of course depend on closing the deals and completion Piece of the restructuring cash out is always following the rhythm of the divestments basically. But in totality, this year is likewise The highest cash out year for the restructuring. The next question comes from Janhdeep Bandaiya from Onefield Research. Please go ahead. Thank you. Yes, I just wanted to firstly check on Catalysis. When we look through sort of 2022, 2023, in terms of your order books, what do you see in different buckets in petchem, specialty catalysts, syngas? And then how is the sort of extra sales that you got from the India e scooter business going to Affect or not affect 2022 base comps? Do you think that business continues or not? And then the second question is sort of Just taking a bit of a step back, I'm confused why your gross margins have gone down in the first half Assuming price versus gross were roughly flat and you had volume leverage. So gross margins, It's only 50, 60 bps, but still sort of going down. And then Conrad, sort of a Part B of that question really is, Again, it's early days for you and would love to hear your thoughts on the CMD. But clarion has all the ingredients to be sort of downstream specialty with regards to your exposure to bioethanol and With regards to your exposure to bioethanol and catalysis and what have you. But we are talking about 16%, seventeen Margin here this year in a massive COVID recovery year where everyone is beating and raising. How do you see this TAG of specialty chemicals being justified for clarion. I mean, do you think that clarion actually has to do more for It to sort of justify itself as a specialty chemical company because right now it's really, at least in my opinion, bang in the middle in Sorry for the rant, Thanks a lot. Sure. Jadeep, I counted actually 3 questions in total, but we will answer them. I would actually like to pass Question on gross margins to Stefan. I will briefly comment on Catalysis. What we are seeing is actually a strong order book. Please keep in mind, we will start the new Capofin plant in China early next year. There is a strong demand for that. This is actually very much an attractive margin business in terms of the catalyst for propylene. Yes, we now see a strong demand from these emission control catalysts in India, which It's tied on the one hand to legislation in India as well as effects from COVID where people use less public transportation. What is important to note though is that we have improved the margins on this business by using sort of less Precious metals for this business, so we find it an attractive business right now. As mentioned before on our last call, at some point this Business will level off due to a transition to electrified scooters And electrification in transportation. As far as the CMD, this for us is an important event. For us, Jaydeep, basically three priorities. First of all, EtiTIn after us having divested Our commodity more commodity chemicals businesses, we will provide clarity on the current portfolio of Clarion's. With that, obviously, also new target setting in terms of mid range targets. More specifically to your question on EBITDA margins, I wholeheartedly Agree with your assessment that Clariant has a true specialty chemicals Business right now. That does mean if you look at our positions in the various markets where we have leading positions That we also now should indeed stretch these businesses to their full potential, not just in terms of growth, But also in terms of EBITDA margins, yes, I listened to your feedback and I think some of your points are well taken. With that, I pass the question on gross margins over to Stefan. Yes, Jadeep, as you said, that's We're talking about 60 basis points versus the first half of the prior year, Well, at the beginning, we were still producing as if there is no COVID because it takes time to adjust the supply chain, everything. Literally, what you have this year in the gross margin or gross profit, as we call it, is still the lagging of the Margin squeeze from the huge raw material increase, we said it's in the 2nd quarter mid teen. We said that for First half, it's a high single digit number. And there is a lagging effect, already mentioned that in the Q1, depending on the business around Up to 3 months in average. And we have seen that in all of the units, of course, extremely strong and it isn't over yet. We still have Creeping increase like 4%, 5%. It's not the same magnitude double digit and huge in the past month, It's still the rollovers from June, July had these kinds of indications. And that is the negative part as well as the higher logistic costs, freight costs, etcetera, are higher here. And they have been, of course, hugely absorbed by leverage and savings, but not completely, at least purely in the gross profit line. And finally, again, when you compare year on year, it's also keep in mind that we had a little bit of stronger mix in some of the businesses like in Care Chemicals, human demand, hydrogen product was much higher. This year, it's more an industrial application story. So that is nothing to concern and the EBITDA margin speaks the language of the substantial improvement of Claren. Great. Thanks a lot. So ladies and gentlemen, this is Andreas speaking again. According to our queue, we answered all the questions. So thank you very much for participating. Obviously, if Additional questions arise, please feel free to reach out to the Investor Relations department. The team is ready to answer any further questions. Obviously, we look forward to continuing the dialogue with you on different occasions, whether it's conferences or latest Then with the 9 months results or the Q3 results on October 28. Once again, thank you very much for participating this afternoon And take care, stay healthy, and goodbye. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.