Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today in our live web stream. Welcome to Dettweiler Half Year twenty twenty five Investors and Media Conference. My name is Volker Zvihlung. I'm CEO of Dettweiler. And with me today are Judith van Walsem, CFO and Guido Unterneira, Head of Investor Relations.
I'd like to begin by sincerely thanking our teams across all divisions for their commitment and dedication to Dettwald. The past six months have been game changing, not just in terms of financial performance, but also as a starting point of an exciting and impactful transformation journey. The passion and resilience have laid the foundation for our future success. Today's agenda will cover our half year business review 2025. Judith will take us through the numbers in half year 2025 financial review.
And in the third part, I'd like to share our market expectations for the remaining months of 2025 and beyond, refer to debt by this positioning and talk about our progress in the transformation program forward now. We plan to run the presentation about forty five minutes. After that, we want to leave ample time for your questions, so we can end the session around 02:30 Central European Time. Let me now turn to our half year business review. I'm pleased to report that DAPWELL has gained solid momentum in the first half of twenty twenty five, particularly in our key health care markets.
As a group, we have successfully improved our profitability and achieved significant milestones that position us well for future growth. For the first six months of twenty twenty five, Dettwiler generated revenue of $563,000,000. While this reflects a 1.7% decline compared to the first half year of 2024, the decrease is primarily due to unfavorable foreign exchange effects. On a currency adjusted basis, we've achieved a growth of 1.3%. After a relatively soft start to the year, we saw strong performance in the second quarter, driven mainly by our Healthcare division.
The Food and Beverage segment also delivered solid growth, while automotive and other industrial end markets did not meet our expectations. We increased our EBIT to CHF 68,900,000.0, improving our EBIT margin to 12 These improvements were also driven by the successful ramp up of new and innovative health care products as well as a robust performance in the food and beverage segment. These gains largely offset weaker demand automotive and industrial markets. Operational improvements implemented over the last months have also helped to mitigate the effects of lower volumes in these end markets. Moreover, we've successfully offset the impact of ongoing global tariff conflicts in the first half.
While the strong Swiss franc reduced reported sales by 2.9%, the operational impact on that volume was minimal. We remain focused on executing our strategy and are confident in our ability to drive sustainable growth and create customer value going forward. In the first half of twenty twenty five, we successfully expanded our robust project pipeline with highly attractive opportunities across both the Healthcare and Industrial divisions. We continue to focus strictly on innovative high value solutions, areas where that wallet brings unique expertise and customer benefits. Once again, we've demonstrated our strong execution capabilities by flawlessly ramping up high volume production for complex projects at our first line facilities.
Notably, this includes a major project involving a GLP-one drug application. This level of performance strengthens our reputation and is driving growing demand for our advanced health care solution, such as our next generation NeoFlex plunger. In the automotive sector, we're seeing strong momentum in new business wins, particularly for vehicles with electrified powertrains and high voltage applications. More than half of our open connector projects are now in the high voltage segment. Across our entire automotive portfolio, projects related to electrified trains already account for over 50% of our total pipeline.
In other industrial segments, we are gaining significant traction with co engineered and customized sealing solutions, further improving the value of our close customer collaboration and application specific expertise. Overall, our pace of business wins accelerated in the first half of the year, fully aligned with our strategic priorities across all core end markets. Last December, BepWalla launched its strategic transformation program, Forward Now, aimed at preparing the company for market recovery and driving acceleration in both revenue and profitability growth. This initiative builds on our strong foundation and positions us to capture future opportunities from a position of strength. Program includes over 20 targeted initiatives, most of which have already been successfully rolled out.
These initiatives are fully embedded within the organization, owned by our teams and and coordinated by dedicated transformation office to ensure consistent execution and momentum. We are firmly on track and the early progress gives us strong confidence that the ambitious targets we have set for full year 2025 are well within reach. That wireless business model is built on diversification across several end markets, which helps to buffer short term volatility. We closely monitor macro and sector specific trends to understand the underlying dynamics relevant to our two core divisions, Healthcare and Industrial. In the first half of twenty twenty five, over 60% of our net sales came from end markets characterized by low cyclicality, primarily health care and food and beverage.
In health care, we observed a clear shift during the reporting period. Customer de stocking, which had a strong influence on past demand, has now largely tapered off. After a subdued first quarter, we saw a market recovery in orders and demand during the second quarter, leading now to a strong momentum by midyear. In the automotive sector, sentiment and demand were muted, particularly in Western Europe and The U. S.
Due to ongoing trade and tariff conflicts, this situation was clear. However, China's automotive market remained an exception with continued growth in battery electric vehicles. The single serve coffee capsule market remained robust Through strong strategic partnerships with two leading customers, we achieved solid growth. Notably, aluminum, the preferred material for most capsule formats in our targeted markets, outperformed the broader market. In line with increased demand and new supply agreements that while successfully ramped up a new production line in May.
In other industrial segments, we observed similar headwinds to those in automotive. Ongoing trade conflicts weighed on investment activity and overall demand. The U. S. Energy sector showed early signs of recovery.
However, low oil prices are delaying expected growth cycle despite the political tailwinds and the supportive regulation. Judith, I'll now turn the presentation over to you for the financial review.
Thank you so much, Volker. Also a very warm welcome from my side. Let's have a look at the financials, and we start with the P and L statement of the DebtRider Group. As Volker indicated, the half year net revenue amounted to DKK €563,000,000 This is minus 1.7% below prior year. However, if we correct for a foreign currency impact of minus €17,000,000 actually, our net revenue increased by 1.3%.
This currency adjusted net revenue growth was driven by Healthcare and by Food and Beverages. We did face challenging market conditions, notably in Automotive Industry. Due to the improved product mix in Healthcare and at the same time, stringent cost management, we were able to improve our gross profit by 2%. This led to an improved gross profit margin of 23.1%, 0.8 percentage points above prior year. Our operating expenses stayed stable as a percentage of sales, and that led to an EBIT improvement of 2.1.
This means an EBIT margin of 12.2% versus 11.8% in last year. When we look at the different items below the line, then you can see that there was a small increase in net finance results, mainly driven by the increased volatility in FX and an increase income tax expenses, where I will explain that with a bit more reasons at a later slide. Overall, our net results amounted to €37,900,000 that is 6.7% of revenues, and that is at par with prior year. So let's have a look at the revenue bridge of half year twenty twenty five. You can see the revenue of half year 'twenty four on the left, and on the right, you see the revenue for half year twenty twenty five.
Now our top line was significantly impacted by this negative currency impact. From the €18,200,000 €16,700,000 were due to unfavorable FX headwinds. Around €7,000,000 were impacting our Healthcare division and the remaining €9,000,000 impacting the division Industrial. The remaining €1,500,000 are accounted for by changes in interdivisional sales. Now if we put that negative FX impact aside and focus on the 1.3% organic growth, currency adjusted growth, then you can see that about half of that is due to price increases mainly generated in Healthcare, and the other half comes from an improved volume and product mix, particularly driven in Healthcare by around €10,000,000 and offset by volume losses, notably in Transport and Electronics.
Let's have a look what this top line then means for the EBIT bridge. And here, you can see something that we've actually always said, Volker, namely that once Healthcare starts picking up again, there will be a big fall through. The higher volumes and better product mix in Healthcare are not only impacting the top line but also improve our gross profit margin and our EBIT. And you can see that quite well represented in the graph where we have a benefit of net revenues of €9,000,000 Around €30,000,000 of that come from Healthcare. Net revenues outpaced the growth of COGS, and that meant that actually COGS was very much contained, partly due to lower material prices and other expenses, but also due to the efficiency programs management that we have put in place since last year.
Our other operating expenses slightly increased. This was partly driven by increasing wage inflation but also by the fact that we have strategically invested in areas where we need the payment base. So a first benefit clearly visible in our results. Our trade accounts receivables improved versus prior year. However, you see a small increase versus full year 2024.
This is due to the increasing sales in Healthcare. Clearly, cash improvement initiatives remain extremely important to us. If we now go to the next slide, then I would like to share with you that our net debt, which is a combination of debt and our cash, went materially down since half year twenty twenty four from $5.00 €9,000,000 to €442,000,000 This is particularly due to the fact that we have paid off any remaining third party bank debt in the '4 and both in the '4 as well in 'twenty five paid off loans towards our anchor investor. In the first half of twenty twenty five, that amounted to €25,000,000 When we look at our leverage, you see as a consequence an improvement from 2.4 to 2.2, or to be precise, point two three in half year twenty twenty five. One explanation on the leverage, we take the net debt over EBITDA multiple.
Now EBITDA is basically the last twelve months EBITDA, and that means that the provision that we took in December 20 Therefore, to be able to get to a better comparison on a like to like basis, we made an adjustment for that provision. Even towards December 24, we see a marginal improvement. In December '4, the leverage was 2.24. The main development, the main improvement, however, came from the net debt reduction. This brings me now to my last slide, which is the free cash flow that remains strong in absolute terms and therefore also allows naturally for continued payments of dividends and debt repayment towards our anchor shareholder.
What is very positive here is that the net cash from operating activities has improved. We also see an improved or an increase in the cash outflow for investing activities. This is due to an increase in CapEx, I would say, as expected. One comment still on the balance sheet there. Our CapEx expenditures on the balance sheet are amounting to €25,000,000 That is a material increase versus prior year.
And currently, our CapEx is at around 4.5% of net revenues. So on that note, I hope we have given you a good overview of the main points that are relevant in our financial report. And I would like to hand over to Volker for the outlook.
Thank you, Judith. It's really rewarding to see that the extra miles and the dedication of our teams start to translate into positive financials. Now let's take a look at how we expect the coming months to unfold. And why we're confident that Dettweiler is well positioned to capture future opportunities. In our Healthcare division, we expect the strong momentum achieved in the first half of the year to stabilize at a high level with the customer destocking phase now largely behind us.
Our current order books confirm this positive trend as well. Looking ahead, we are optimistic that the market will gradually return to its long term growth path in the mid single digit percentage range. We are well positioned for the anticipated market rebound. We have consistently maintained our production capacities, technical expertise and we have built a robust portfolio of high value products. As planned, the share of high value products in our portfolio continues to grow, supported by the ramp up of new serial production projects, and this is helping us to optimize capacity utilization, particularly within our NX1 first line sites.
Over the past month, we have also intensified our collaboration with leading pharmaceutical companies and system integrators, reinforcing our strategic relevance to this market. Our project pipeline is now filled with highly attractive opportunities with more than twothree of the pipeline comprising high value solutions. And a successful ramp up of our NeoFLEX and GLP-one related products underlines our strong execution capabilities and further confirms Spatwireless position as a preferred partner in the health care market. In our automotive segment, we do not anticipate a strong rebound in passenger car productions, primarily in Western Europe United States for the remainder of 2025. China, however, continues to be the most important and dynamic but also demanding market for electric vehicles, showing above average growth in this particular segment.
Global sentiment in the automotive industry remains closely tied to the evolving landscape of trade and tariff policies, which are monitoring carefully. In response, we are proactively rightsizing our capacities, streamlining our product portfolio and optimizing cost structures to ensure our resilience and competitiveness. In our collaboration with leading OEMs and trusted suppliers, we increasingly focus on winning partners who recognize competitive age our specialized products and technical expertise bring. And ours were committed to leverage that as an advantage for mutual growth. And this positions us well for long term success even in a challenging market environment.
In China, we have built a strong market position and are gaining momentum with a growing number of new business wins, particularly in the electrified and high voltage vehicle applications. In other industrial markets, we expect demand to remain subdued due to a general cautious sentiment likely persisting until key sources of regional uncertainty will be resolved. However, selected target sectors such as connectivity applications are showing signs of recovery. In this area, we have recently strengthened our customer relationships in China, Japan and Europe, And this is clearly reinforcing our position in our key regions. In The U.
S. Energy markets, a policy driven recovery remains on the horizon, although it may be delayed by current oil price developments. Nevertheless, we are well positioned to benefit from the next growth cycle, thanks to our strong regional presence and to our capabilities. We continue projects in outperforming segments, which further enhance our positions. A recent example is a sophisticated elastomer component developed for a novel sustainable fertilizer pump. Leveraging our advanced simulation capabilities, we significantly accelerate prototyping and time to market during the co engineering phase with our customers. And that allows us to capture more value along the entire value chain.
And across many industrial projects, we continue to stand out with our certified elastomer compounds, which offer our customers advanced performance and reliability. In the single serve coffee capsule market, steady growth is expected to continue with aluminum emerging as the material of choice. This trend is reinforced by evolving EU packaging regulations and as well the favorable environmental footprint of recycled aluminum. To meet growing demand, we are continuously ramping up production capacity under long term supply agreements with our leading players in this market. Dettbauer is one of the few suppliers with several years of experience in processing aluminum, achieving recycling rates over 90%.
This is a clear competitive advantage. And these capabilities, combined with our high quality product portfolio, position Dettwiler exceptionally well to capitalize on the growth opportunities in both our Healthcare and Industrial Solutions target markets. Our transformation program, ForwardNow, was successfully launched and rolled out in the first half of twenty twenty five. The program spans both our Healthcare and Industrial divisions and it's structured around four key action areas, driving by over 20 targeted initiatives. These initiatives are fully owned by the business with strategic coordination and transparent progress tracking by a dedicated and experienced transformation team.
This approach is one of the reasons we are fully on track with our transformation. By the end of twenty twenty seven, we expect cumulative profit improvements of CHF52 million once all work streams are completed. The program is projected to deliver more than CHF24 million in recurring annual profit improvements from 2028 onward. While benefits will ramp up progressively over the three year period, we already anticipate a positive contribution for full year 2025 based on the strong progress to date. Forward Now is not a cost cutting exercise.
It is a strategic realignment program designed to position Dettwiler for accelerated and profitable growth. It focuses on where we deliver most of the value by combining material expertise, solution design and industrialization excellence into system critical components for demanding applications. The program also involves sharpening our portfolio, investing where we can be a market leader and also exiting areas where we cannot deliver the value required to meet our profitability ambitions. Finally, Forward Now is helping us to unlock synergies across functions, regions and teams, breaking down silos and driving collaboration under our unified approach, One Dettweiler. Forward Now is influencing all areas of Dettweiler, and I'd like to share three concrete examples of running initiatives that demonstrate the program's impact.
In June 2024, we streamlined our corporate structure to strengthen the execution of focus. The number of corporate functions was reduced from five to four, and our Executive Committee now consists of the CEO, CFO, CTO and the leaders of our Healthcare and Industrial divisions. As a part of this transition, we have fully integrated sustainability and operational excellence into existing functions, ensuring these strategic areas remain embedded in our business without adding structural complexity. And this allows us to execute more effectively, particularly as our sustainability journey is already well internalized across the entire organization. In the Industrial Division, we have introduced a modular organizational model to simplify structures, capture synergies and strengthen regional accountability.
This was essential as the division hosts a wide range of businesses and locations that if left too fragmented would limit our ability to scale. As a part of this transformation, we merged our mobility and connectors business units into a new combined unit, transportation and electronics. Under this model, sales team focused directly on their global accounts or regions, product lines drive technical business development and application expertise and our regional production setup enables more flexibility and faster time to market. Together, this structure enhances coordination and enables us to deliver more value across the full value chain. Additionally, we actively optimize our production network and sharpening our product portfolio.
As a part of this effort, we will close our Vandalia site in The U. S. By September 2025 with production being transferred to two other American facilities. In parallel, we are reducing product complexity within the Industrial Division, which is already translating into greater operational efficiency and focus. These changes are not isolated adjustments.
They are part of a broader commitment to create a profitable and future proof debt model. Through targeted investments in innovation, operational improvements and execution of our Forward Now transformation program, we are laying the groundwork to capture above market growth in our core industries over the long term. We therefore reaffirm our midterm financial targets. Assuming normal market conditions, we expect high single digit annual organic growth and an EBIT margin of over 17%. DETWALL delivered a strong first half in 2025 despite a very challenging economic environment.
These results demonstrate that we are well positioned and that our strategy and execution are on the right track. Healthcare momentum is strong. High value projects are ramping recently initiated transformation program starts to deliver, and we have the right capabilities and tool in place to effectively navigate current market challenges. With focused execution and a strong pipeline, Dettweiler is on track for profitable growth. Thank you very much for your attention and to our teams for making this progress possible.
I now hand over the session to Peter Winterner to move to our question and answer section.
So welcome from my side as well. If you would like to ask your questions verbally, you find the phone number and the meeting ID on the streaming page next to the chat function. You can call into this live web chat using that number. Please mention your name and ask one question at a time. Press 6 to unmute yourself.
We will bring callers in the stream one at a time. To avoid any audio feedback, we kindly ask callers to mute the live stream on their end. You can also continue submitting your questions through the chat function on the streaming page. We'll start now with the first questions we have received via the chat. So Volker, there's one analyst asking that automotive revenues have apparently declined at Dottweiler, while global light vehicle production in H1 has been roughly flat year on year.
Is this attributable to Dottweiler's OEM and geographic mix? Or has the company lost or gained market share in automotive applications in H1?
Primarily in H1, we have I mean, as a Tier two in most cases, yes, there are many influence factors that would be make it difficult to compare our sales development with the overall production volume of cars. So there may be some stock effects in between. In fact, while we're gaining market share and volumes in China. And in our business, Europe and U. S, we are behind as the overall market is as behind in production figures, yes?
So basically, we assess the situation as a development with the market and also with the regional factors that are clearly underlined by the markets or by the product areas we play in.
Okay. The next question is can you comment on the order intake for Healthcare from Q1 into Q2? And then the momentum into Q3? Can you also comment on what percentage of orders are high value versus your current trailing twelve month sale in Healthcare?
Okay. I mean, as said, we have a strong momentum from the first quarter where we saw still some effects of destocking and some low order intakes and orders on hand that were on a particularly lower level, or I would say on the previous half year level and then gaining traction starting from March and April to be on a much higher level in Q2. We do expect that, as said, to continue on that level. When it comes to the product mix, we have to look at an annual or at least a half year comparison in order to have to minimize the effects of orders on hand. But in fact, we would see a little bit more than onethree of our production orders currently in a high value segment comparing to everything that is now on our pipeline is more or less in a two third share in high value.
So we're gradually capturing more high value business in our facilities. And with every ramp up in our first line facilities or our NeoFLEX product, we would increase also our share in high value products gradually.
Okay. The next question most probably goes to our CFO. Could you please elaborate on the attached conditions for the PAMA loan agreement? That's the ANCA shareholder, arm's length, flexibility to pay back, leverage covenants?
So we have €190,000,000 in loans outstanding with Pema. We typically look at this on an arm's length basis, and that is also reflected in the interest rates that we are paying. So we clearly have, with an anchor investor, a bit more flexibility. However, we have made a clear commitment also conference that over the midterm, we would bring down our leverage to a multiple of 1.5, yes? So it is a clear objective on our side to continue to pay back loans.
Okay. Thank you for this. We now change to the callers and then taking the first caller online. Hello? Can you hear us?
If you hear us, state your name ask Perfect. You
Hi, this is
Ben from Berenberg. Thank you for taking my question. Maybe one question on your cash flow statement. There was roughly €99,000,000 add back in noncash items, and I wanted to see whether you could maybe reconcile that for us. I assume roughly €39,000,000 of that is D and A, but it is relatively high on a year over year basis.
So I was wondering what the remaining €60,000,000 where they were coming from.
I would prefer to come back to you on that question.
Yes, sure.
So we take you one:one then later on. So please the second caller. Can you hear us? Please mention your name and ask your question. No one there. Next one. Please mention your name.
Good afternoon. Can you hear me?
Yes. We do hear you.
Yeah. Yeah. We hear you.
Okay. Dan Lauks here at Zedgarby. Afternoon.
Okay.
Judy Volker and Guido.
I have two questions. The first one is related to order intake and the book to bill ratio. Can you comment on the book to bill of the first quarter versus the second quarter? And how much above one the second quarter was? And the second question is related to the number of innovations that you have presented at the event in the spring, where you have shown the opportunities for soft pulps and the other new products.
Can you comment on the progress that you've achieved over the last couple of months in those developments? Thank you.
So thank you very much, Bernd, for your questions. So I will take the second question first. So on innovation, especially soft pulls, are in plan. It's now really the time for us to focus more on the leads we have gained over the last years in order to generate our serial business and as well clear applications with our customers. As said, we are talking to smaller customers for that particular product as well to larger groups.
And we have steady progress. Our the validation for some of these programs is continuing as expected. And we are as well gaining this year a particular share of sales significantly higher than last year with yes, primarily with soft pulls with the soft pulls product. So to answer your question, we are on track with that product and looking forward to show more and to give you a very comprehensive update on that during the Capital Markets Day.
Great. Coming back to your first question, I will answer it slightly differently. We naturally have seen a tremendous growth in Healthcare, as I mentioned, 5.8% organically year over year. What is important there is that there is room for improvement in turning that or converting that sale into cash, and that's an area that we continue to work on. This is reflected in our accounts receivables.
Caller, please. Can you hear us? Are you in? Please mention your name. Anyone there?
So we take the next one. Can you hear us?
Hello. You're Sebastian from UBS. Can you hear me?
Yes. Perfect. Sebastian, hello.
Great. Hello. Many thanks and good afternoon. I've got a question with regard to the growth in the Healthcare in the end of the second quarter or the end of the first half. You can give us some sort of indication how that number would be roughly comparing with the average number that you have seen over the course of the first half?
And a follow-up there with regard to GLP-one, if you can sort of outline what sort of related revenues you have in mind for the near term sort of prospect for you, if there is a chance that you can give us a bit of a ballpark, that would be great.
So typically, we would not comment on specific numbers for GLP-one. Coming back to the comments made before, we've seen an increase in the high value part of our product portfolio in Healthcare actually from 32% to 36%. And that is particularly driven by two kind of product lines. One is GLP-one and the other one is NeoFLEX. So yes, we see not just volume growth, we see particularly an improvement in product mix.
Maybe, Volker, you want to comment a bit on the development of GLP One in general without specifically mentioning absolute numbers?
I mean, Sebastian, we have started this first GLP-one serial product. Some more will come. Some more production capacities will be ramped up over the next month and over the next month. And we're confident that we will twelve months rolling, we will reach somehow an annual turnover of €10,000,000 and more steadily growing, yes. So this clearly depends on the market and the market development over the next years.
But we always keep in mind, we are not working on only one project in that area. So we have a couple of late stage developments with our customers that will hit the market within the next three years. So we ensure a steady development of our turnover over the next months and years, which will be one product.
Got it. Many thanks. And with regard to the end of quarter or end of first half year growth in Healthcare, more on a broader base, most necessarily related to one particular product. Is that way above the 5.8%? Or is it roughly close to 5.8 Or how should we think about it?
From my perspective, you can expect a continued growth at the level of half year one or slightly above.
If I might switch on one question with regard to the financial result, as you said, some moving parts over there. Nonetheless, how should we think of that one going forward for H2 twenty twenty six and so on?
So in terms of interest or in terms of FX financing?
Overall, the whole financial result.
The total financial result, the net result. I mean we need to improve that on a continuous basis, yes? And higher top line will lead to a better EBIT. And clearly, we also seek to ensure that those items that are below the line will remain contained, therefore, leading to a net result improvement over time.
Got it. Many thanks.
You're welcome.
So we are taking in the next caller. Takes some time. Network is not too fast it seems. Okay. Now you should be able to hear us.
No more persons in the line. So I have two more questions from the chat. One is about, can you help us to understand the margin profile of the subsegments industries within Industrial Solutions after all the changes? What level are we currently? And what swings can be seen expected through a cycle?
Maybe let me comment to that in a way. I mean we have two reporting units, which is the division Healthcare and which is the division Industrial. Within the division Industrial, we have shown our sales share clearly in the slide with the end markets because we strongly believe that the end markets behind that are also delivering the right assessment on the market dynamics and further on. What we are doing within the Industrial division is clearly, we leverage the synergies we have. So that means that as formerly a business unit would have dedicated plants that are just exclusively working for that business unit are no more existing.
So we leverage all the capacities we have within the Industrial division as it makes sense because of comparable production steps, comparable technologies and so on. So basically, looking at this split, for us, it just makes sense to report in the Industrial division and not on business units that are kind of an artificial reporting unit giving kind of wrong impressions to the market and to the analysts. That's why we've stopped that. But in fact, you can derive from the markets and from the composition of the sales of the Industrial Division, how the development is to be assessed.
So we have one last question from the chat, and that's about if you could provide some guidance on the CapEx run rate for the next one to three years into the future.
Yes. Thanks very much. So we're still in the phase that we are kind of post our big investment wave, right? And you see that in a relatively low CapEx and a depreciation that still outweighs CapEx. As mentioned before, we are currently at 4.5% of net revenue.
That's an increase versus the last time we reported. I think it is a fair assumption to say that we probably will be for the next eighteen months around 5%. We still have quite some capacity that we can leverage across our plants. We've always mentioned that, particularly in Healthcare, we are able to accommodate 120,000,000 to 200,000,000 more in sales, and that will keep basically CapEx rate at the lower end of the spectrum. Thank you for your question.
Thank you, everybody, for your interest. And I hand back to Volker.
Yes. Also my side, thank you all for your questions and for your continued interest in that. We very much appreciate your time today and look forward to keeping you updated on our progress. And we are looking forward to meeting you in one of the upcoming events or investor conferences. Thank you very much. Have a great day.