Earnings Call: Q1 2020

Apr 30, 2020

Good morning. I am the entity operator for all participants. Welcome to the Gevirt Conference Call on the Q1 Results 2020. Please note that the presentation of the presentation and participants will be in a listen only mode and the conference is being recorded. This call must not be required for publication or broadcast. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Christian Bruhl, CEO, accompanied by Mr. Rudolf Iff, CFO and Mr. Roman Siedler, Head of Corporate Communications and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you for the introduction. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our conference call on our Q1 results. Geberit delivered in a challenging environment very good results in the Q1. Let me start with a few key statements. Net sales grew in local currency by 1.5% despite the negative impact from the COVID-nineteen pandemic since March. The profitability further increased and all operating results, EBITDA and net income and EPS level, with no currency disproportionately to net sales. However, the strong Swiss francs led to a negative inflation effect or decrease of our reported figures on all levels of our P and L. Let me now start with a brief summary of our sales development in Q1, which we already communicated in April. CHF 1,000,000,000 decreased by 3.9 percent to CHF 798,000,000 due to a substantial negative currency effect of minus The COVID-nineteen crisis had a negative impact on sales in 2 dimensions. 1st, a temporary production interruption in our plants in China and for the power toilet motor neuron and second, a severe sales decline since the second half of March in a selected number of countries where the COVID-nineteen imposed restrictions led to a default shutdown quarter. EBITDA slightly decreased by 0.7 percent to CHF260 1,000,000 due to negative currency development. In lower currencies, EBITDA increased and the EBITDA margin reached 32.6%, an increase of 100 basis points. This margin increase was driven by positive one time effects on raw material costs of almost 1 percentage point in the Q1, which we will not see during the rest of the year. Excluding these one off effects, the operating margin would have been only slightly above previous year's level. Positive starts for the margin were lower raw material prices of minus 2.4%, increased sales prices, various efficiency projects and a high cost discipline. These positive effects were almost compensated by substantial tariff related increases in personnel expenses and dedicated investments in strategic initiatives for the organization and the brand Harmony division. Negative currency development has only a minor impact on the KDA market due to our continued efforts to maintain a natural currency engine. EBIT decreased in CHF 6 by minus 1.6 percent to CHF 224 1,000,000 and the EBIT margin reached 28%, 50 basis points above Q1 2019. It's slightly lower margin improvement on equity versus the NDA level driven by higher depreciation costs due to investments last year. Net income decreased to 4.4 percent is proportionally to CHF184 1,000,000 due to negative currency effects and a slight change higher tax rate. Earnings per share decreased by 4.3% to 5.6.10 percent also driven by the negative currency translation effect. In local currency, NPS grew proportionally to negative. Let me now comment on the current status of the COVID-nineteen impact of February and November. I'll start with the demand side. Demand in almost all our countries is negatively affected by COVID-nineteen imposed restrictions on our end market. In a selected number of countries, demand remains severely due to a de facto shutdown of construction either by local authorities or due to voluntarily discontinued operations of other market participants. These countries, which are affected most includes per end of April, Italy, France, UK, Spain and also Europe, India and South Africa, 2 countries where activities came to a complete standstill. These shopping centers represent around 20% of our fleet. In Austria, construction flights started again to reopen since mid of our April and started to recover. The remaining companies also recorded a substantial decline in demand, although less pronounced, driven by a lower activity level of the building construction industry imposed by COVID-nineteen restrictions. The only country where demand is on normal level again is China. Overall, sales and order entry in group level are down by a lower double digit percentage in April. However, there are some positive things. 1st, customer showrooms for sanitary product are starting to reopen across various countries. 2nd, several companies with a more or less complete shutdown of construction sites announced to reopen construction activities during the coming 2 weeks. Let me continue with the status of our supply chain. Our supply chain is despite the COVID-nineteen restrictions impact. And access to all important materials and components. At the moment, 2 smaller sites are still closed due to governmental decrease. Our ceramic plant is currently and the plant is in interest. However, these 2 plants are not material in terms of volume and we have lost products on stock. Let me now comment on the financial situation in Geberit. Geberit is financially very strong and very healthy. We have a very strong balance sheet. For end of April, we hold the cash position of RMB 316,000,000 and an unused revolving credit facility of CHF350 1,000,000. Furthermore, we have no covenants on outstanding debt. We completed our share buyback program as planned. In total, we bought back 1,026,000 shares since June 2017 for a total consideration of CHF440,000,000. To maintain our strong balance sheet and the strength of our term liquidity, we issued a standard Swiss franc bond in the amount of CHF 3.5 million with a maturity of 2.5 years and a coupon of 0.35%. Let me now comment on our priorities and how we want to cultivate through this unprecedented economic crisis. 1st, we will not change our strategic agenda or operational priorities. We will continue to think long term to invest and to execute our strategic operational initiatives. We do not see a need for restructuring. We are financially very strong and constantly guided that we have some of our margin in the business to emerge stronger in times of market disruptions. 3rd, we adapt our daily activities and projects to the current market reality. It means that we stopped or delayed certain activities or projects, which are not feasible, necessary or meaningful in the current environment. However, we will not make any compromise. There are fundamentals and take measures which would harm our position of human growth potential. For example, reducing our R and D efforts and margins. We refrain in the current situation from providing an outlook for the building construction industry and raw material markets with the implications of the COVID-nineteen crisis of fast moving and impossible to predict. Let me close my conclusion with a short summary. The spread is immune against the economic crisis emerging from the COVID-nineteen pandemic. We will see a significant impact on our Q2 and Q2 results, although the clarity is still positive. However, Cabrillo is a highly efficient organization with highly automated plants and logistics produced in Europe, all Europe with strong balance sheet and industry leading marketing, which will allow us not only to navigate through periods of disruptions and disturbances, but also to emerge stronger from this unprecedented economic crisis. Thank you for your attention. We are now ready to And the first question we received is from Andre Kukhnin of Credit Suisse. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Good morning and thank you very much for taking my questions. I think I wanted to follow-up and just to calibrate a little bit your comment on the low double digit run rate in April. Can we interpret that as 10% to 20 percent range? Or do we think about the mathematical low double digit expansion, kind of 'ninety Okay. And if I can try it in a way, some of your last talk peers talked about somewhere around 45% to 25%. Would you be able to help us placing your run rate in that range? No, I just repeat what I said just before, lower the operating percentage between 10% 50%. All right. Yes. Can I in Austria, because I think that's the only country so far apart from China where we have had the shutdown and restart, how far back to normal are we now? As I said before, back to normal, we are only in China. In all other countries, we are not. In all countries, we are affected by this crisis. In Austria, the dynamic is less severe since mid of April since construction sites start to reopen. But also in the second half of April, we have seen a substantial lower demand still in Austria, not as severe as the first half of April or in the second half of March. Thank you. And then in countries that did not shut down Germany and Sweden, again, just trying to really calibrate the model. We've seen some read across this off companies reporting stable development, some talking about still down 20. Where is the demand for sanitary products in those countries from your perspective as a run rate kind of end of March April? I do not want to quantify again. Also, obviously, it is a substantial decline also in these countries across the board. Where construction sites are officially open, but impacted by restrictions from COVID-nineteen. Right. A substantial start at 10 for you? Is that The world is very volatile. It's a high uncertainty, very fast moving. And I think and we think it's not worth to be able to take figures on a monthly level, especially in our industry where we have a very low visibility. Keep in mind, our visibility is low all day 2 weeks. And that is the reason why we want to refrain from discussing too many detailed figures, even not on the R and D level for a few months. I understand. And the guidance is not to be taken as indication underway or the future. It's just to understand the current situation and to have a base model from that. I appreciate that you've given as much disclosure as you decided to give. Last final question was on raw material, pick up on your comment, Q1 benefited, but it's something you don't expect in the rest of the year. Raw materials in Q2 have been up sequentially versus Q1? And could you give a bit more detail on which pieces have gone up? As I said during mass production due to this highly volatile environment, we refrain from any outlook also not from raw material markets. But what we have seen in the Q1, the raw material price has been down by 2.4% compared to the Q1 2019, And the next question we received is from Fabio Janekki of UBS. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning. Good morning and thank you very much for taking my questions. First one is, what do you see how to wholesale those react to enterprises in Europe? Have they started to reduce inventories? Or are they and for cash management or are they rather doing the opposite and actually restocking for recovery. Is there any substantial kind of impact you have seen so far? What we have seen during March, more or less before the shutdown of the companies, we have seen that wholesalers start to build up their inventory. At the moment, it's quite difficult to have a detailed view how this plays. But I would assume that is a further tightening up of stocks would not be possible if you were already at a level already end of March. So if at all, rather reducing but not increasing stocks during April. Okay. So they have increased inventories in March, but in the second half of March, you had the sharp drop in revenues, right? Driven by demand, of course, yes. Yes. And besides the growth of inventories, or this had happened rather in the first half of March. Sorry, repeat again. So you had a sharp decline in the second half of March despite the build up of inventories from wholesalers, right, due to the demand and outweighs the build up of inventories? Yes. As a consequence of the first half of March, rather strong Okay. Thank you. Maybe first on the short term, you said last time you introduced them in France and UK, did you expand like Germany or Switzerland? No, we didn't. From a group perspective, we have not introduced short time work on a material growth level, only in companies, UK and France. We reduced activity level by about 50% in selective options only. So no changes and no material short term working group. And then a last one on prices. I think you said you before you increased your selling price normally by 1% in April. But now with the low oil price, is there any extra discussion you see with wholesalers on that front? We implemented our price increases as of April as planned. And price discussions or raw material discussions, raw material did not have any effect on your price discussions? I don't want to go into detail of our pricing discussion with our customers. So we implemented our pricing business as planned as a paper. Sure. Understood. Okay. Thank you very much. These are my questions. And the next question we received is from Denise Molina of Morningstar. Your line is now open, madam. Please go ahead. A few questions, please. Really on the variable costs, so if you think about the cash, cash, cash, cash customers that used to report, I think that was somewhere around 11% to 12% of gross sales. Just wondering if that's all variable now. Does it seem to help you during the GFC in terms of the margin? And then the other variable cost, I guess, you talked about before is the raw material. So I'm assuming that those 2 buckets are variable. And then on the fixed side, if you look at the personnel, it looks like you've got about 1 or so in manufacturing. Just wondering why those haven't seen any or you haven't done anything in terms of reducing work hours or reducing your exposure to that because I'm imagining a lot of those employees are idle at the moment. I'm not 100% sure if I understood the deductions correctly. I think you were talking about fixed deductions and if they are fixed or variable, then that's basically our variable costs. Raw material costs are predominantly variable costs and personnel costs are predominantly fixed costs. Yes. And thanks for confirming the variable portion of those 2 buckets, the first two buckets. In terms of the employees that you have in production, which I think you have around 50% of your employees for production, 26% for sales and marketing. I'm just wondering why you haven't used more of that spend in the short term, assuming that you're not producing as much as you did before, and you've got most of your employee based on the staffing side. Do you not reducing their work hours in doing anything more activity to reduce your fixed cost pressure on that side? I'm trying to give you a more general high level answer. I think the question is how can we adapt our organization, especially our operations to the fluctuation in terms of demand, declining demand. And I think so far, we have managed quite well to adapt our operations, production, plans, logistics to the fluctuations in demand by temporary work, which we have, but also by flexibility and an increased flexibility of our permanent Okay. And just one last follow-up on that. In terms of the number of employees that you have relative to GFC, I mean, you have almost doubled the number of employees. But would you say that you're not taking as much as many measures as you did then because you think that this has been more short term? But of course, in terms of short term measures, we have in place a hiring freeze in time of uncertainty, but no restructuring plans. And the next question we received is from Martin Hoetzler I have a couple of questions. First of all, maybe coming back to the personnel costs. In local currencies, it seems like they increased quite substantially by about 6% or so. I was just wondering what was the main reason for that? And if you could remind us how digitization costs and also rebranding costs impacted in the Q1 personnel and other operating costs? I have probably to answer the first question. Your observation is correct with regards to the increase in local currency. Remember, in Q1, we did not yet take any measures like higher increase, etcetera, related to the COVID-nineteen pandemic. So, in that number, we have a buildup related to our initiatives. You mentioned digitization that started as planned. And we have some rental tariff increases again 2.5% this year. And our employee participation programs, which usually are charged in which always are charged in Q1 relate always to the year before, that was a good year, so the cost was a little bit higher. Those were the main reasons why in local currency personnel cost was up. And the second part of your question regarding the impact of specific initiatives, for example, deceleration that has an impact on personnel costs and other operating expenses. About fifty-fifty? Well, I don't want to go into these details. Okay. Then maybe a second one, and that's, of course, a high level question. But from your experience coming out of crisis in China, what's a good assumption for actually Europe coming out of crisis in the second half? I don't give any concrete number. Is it reasonable to expect to be the second half we will have kind of a normal situation again if you compare it to China? I rephrase your question. I don't know what happens in the second half of the year. But I think the fundamental part of your question is, do we expect any catch up effects if the shutdowns are over? And in China, we have now the first observation. The production sites are running normal again. We have seen that demand came back to normal previous corona level, but we have not seen a significant catch up. And that is what we also expect in Europe on the short term significant catch up effects just driven by the limitation of installation capacity. Because people actually saw our products and you can't suddenly increase your capacity of installation or down your capacity of installation. Therefore, if we can't have the effect, we would expect that it's distributed over a longer period of time and not very in a short period of time. Okay. Well understood. And then just very last one. The one off impact in the raw material costs, 100 basis points impact. What was this exactly? It was mainly driven by inventory evaluation due to process optimizations. We had some projects, optimized processes and then impact on our inventory evaluation, a positive one and that's alleged to this one time effect of almost 1 percentage point in the Q1 on raw material costs, which you will not see in the remainder. Okay. Thank you. And the next question we received is from Arnaud Lehmann of Bank of America. Your line is now open. Thank you very much and good morning to you. I guess, I'm going to speak more medium, long term. We would expect existing buildings, whether it's in the housing of the commercial sector to be completed. But have you seen any signs that we could see new projects or future projects being delayed or canceled with potentially a bit of a medium term effect into the second half or into 2021? That's my first question. And my second question is on your quarter mix during the economic crisis. Would you expect over time maybe have an effect with more kind of low end products being more popular relative to your more expensive range? We have seen to your first question an impact on projects which are delayed currently due to the restrictions. I can't comment if these projects are more midterm oriented or short term oriented, I do not know, but we generally see a delay in projects currently. I don't know what the next year. Second question regarding product mix. What we could expect in terms of product mix, the impact that our product mix is that showroom closure. We have seen in the end of the month of March, we have stronger impact on bathroom systems compared to pricing and installation of large systems. If there is an impact in terms of pricing levels, I think that's too early to have an opinion or we do not have any signals so far. The biggest product market impact we expect is more on the product areas. What will be on the pricing levels we will see. That's very helpful. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And the next one is from Martin Schindler of Kepler Cheuvreux. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got 2 actually. First one, looking at your EBITDA margin bridge, I see that the impact from the so called other cost block was quite low, only like 50 bps minus, much lower than what I had anticipated. I'm just wondering, firstly, what was the impact from cost containment measures on that cost block, what you call other cost effects. And if you could provide a range for this cost block for 2020, I realize it's difficult, but I guess the range would probably be rather appropriate going forward. And then my second question is just some clarification questions. So that run rate, that double digit run rate you were talking about in April, did I understand correctly that this is for organic growth? And also, the inventories question that you answered previously, the acoustics were very neutral. I'm just double checking. Did you say that you expect inventories to be worked down again going forward? That would be my second question. And my third question, actually, I'm just wondering, which countries are you seeing starting to reopening showrooms? And also maybe on your initial thoughts regarding end customer traffic going back into those showrooms? And And in this respect, not only talking about showrooms but also construction sites, could you just repeat very quickly which in which countries you are seeing a reopening of construction sites? First question is on the other cost impact from our in our EBITDA margin bridge, which I show in our presentation. There are the main impact there is that this one time effect from raw material costs we talked about before that has positive impact on other costs. It's maybe the main reason why you have more negative. That is the main reason because this one time effect does affect the other cost effect there. 2nd, regarding inventory, the only thing I'd say is that we believe that the inventory levels of wholesalers were at a higher end versus end of March starting due to the pilot of inventories during the first half of March. We do not know what happened during April, but case at all, then the inventory levels would have been lower during April and not higher because they were more or less at a max level end of March. 3rd question, reopening of showrooms. Actually these countries which are channel open, but we can reach the newspapers that are also the contents which are reopening showrooms. For example, in Switzerland, showrooms start will start to reopen again. Also in Germany, showrooms start to reopen. Of course, in Italy, showrooms are still closed. Also in France, they are closed, but they are announced reopen during the next 2 weeks. So it's pretty much the country with the complete closed consumption side, there are also more restrictions control rooms. The other open conference, I would call them, there you see the most openings of control rooms at the moment. Okay, thanks. And just to clarify the organic growth clarification question, that was on organic growth, double digit run rate, right? Yes. Organic, you mean local currency. In local currency, And the next one is from Charlie Ferrenbach of RBC. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. It's a combination of raw material prices and also face price increases. Thank you. And we go on with Monique Varon of Societe Generale. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Good morning. So I have three questions. The first one is on your fixed cost, variable cost. I know you have said like you're not doing any big restructuring. But I just wanted to see, I mean, if this fixed cost somehow will be converted into some sort of free variable cost, I mean, obviously, like 3 variables or if that can be like very variable sort of things. The second question is on the depreciation. I know you talked about higher depreciation because of increased investments. But I was wondering, I mean, because of the CHF depreciation and euro you should see some impact of depreciation going down because of the product. So we have not seen in Q1, but maybe this is just a timing issue. When you remake your balance sheet, you see this impact depletion coming down later? This is the second question. And the third is you have not mentioned anything about the new buyback program that you have initiated. So is this still on or that is off now? I'll start with the second question. The increased depreciation level will remain. I cannot go back because you the year more or less. Your third question about the new share buyback program, we are preparing the new share buyback program preparing the new share buyback program depending on the further development that we started in Q2 or Q3. The first question, we didn't really understand. Can you try to phrase it again? Yes. So basically, you said like you are not doing any deep restructuring, I mean, despite knowing that 2020 will be a bad year in terms of volume decline and things like that. So just there are some cost in your business in personnel and there are maybe some other cost there's a fix. So I just wanted to understand, even if you're not doing the restructuring, but can it be turned into a semi variable softening timing? Is it some measure where digital will remain fully fixed? I mean, it is like slightly semi variable. I'm sorry, I didn't understand. I recommend let me take that offline, this question, if that's okay for you. Okay, sir. No problem. Okay. Next question is from Christian Arnold of First. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead. Good morning, gentlemen. I also have a question on the EBITA margin that you showed here. On the volume and product mix effect, which was basically flat plus 0.1%. So looking at the product line performance, I would have assumed that we would see a positive product mix effect as Installation Systems and the piping systems rather than the platform systems decline. Could you recommend yes, comment on that? We have seen a positive impact from the product mix, if that is right. That means that you actually had a negative volume effect? No, but keep in mind that the price effect in the first quarter was quite strong. We have still price effect from last year's price increase, which was more over 7.5%, not around 1%. Okay. And then I try to get quite a brief answer. Maybe I'm not successful, but I'll try. So if let's assume that we have in the 2nd quarter a decline in volume of 10% to 20%. This volume, what about mix effects, assuming we have the same product mix? I mean, what would we see here? Is it a minus 100 to minus 200 basis points? Is it more? Is it less? Of course, I will not go into details of the numbers. But of course, if we have a negative volume, we will have all the negative volume effect of course. And since we are not restructuring our operations, the more or less set up, in fact it's more or less magical, meaning downwards the same as offers. Thank you. And the next question is of Raimo Rosenau of Deutsche Bank. Bank. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning. I've got a little bit of a silly question as Christian, about the more general view about the operating leverage. I mean, if just for the sake of the argument, you would assume that in a given year, your organic growth would be something like minus 50% organic, not Swiss franc, in the full year, in the quarter. And taking into account that then you certainly have some contingency plan in the corporate which you would then pull out. What would the effect on your EBITDA margin, the 15% decline in the full year of your top line organically? What would then be effect on the margin EBITDA? Again, the same answer as before. Since we are not fundamentally changing our setup, not fundamentally structured, the operating leverage of the company is the same in a positive world as in a negative world. We have taken some measures to have the organization, but at that point before we delayed some projects, but nothing is going to happen. So the operating leverage of the company remains for us to say and it has been pre crisis. And that applies for positive development And if you look at the past of February, you have good indication about the operating leverage of our operations. Yes. But what I'm saying is, I mean, obviously, you're kind of expecting a recovery not for 2 years. If we say in the full year, we would really go down 50% organically, it would most certainly change something on the structure or am I totally wrong? No, that's exactly it. I have to repeat that, but I'll tell you the instructions. We are not restructuring. We are in a conscious position to invest margin in that period of crisis. We expect low margin levels due to this stable operations more or less, we are not fundamentally changing something. Want to invest during this period, for example, R and D budget. And that has an impact on our margins. Okay. So, do I understand you correctly, if the second quarter, which will certainly be quite a bad quarter, obviously, which will be in Q3 and Q4. So there will be no recovery for the rest of the year. We will still continue like that. At the moment, if the situation is developing, what we see currently is not any plants are restructuring. And I also do not believe that we will change the situation after the Q2. Okay. Thank you. And the next one is a follow-up from Andre Fantin of Credit Suisse. Your line is now open again. Please go ahead. Thank you very much for taking my follow-up. I just wanted to check on the raw materials one off you flagged in Q1. You quantified it 100 basis points. That's 100 basis points of sales. Is that right? Yes, correct. It's almost one that, in terms of sales, yes, correct. Got it. And on the cost measures that you have taken, is there any way to kind of scope them out? I think you've heard a lot of questions, but I'm trying to kind of address it in many ways. But I guess if we think about your labor bill or number of employees, is there any way you can help us quantifying that kind of buffer that you're creating with these cost measures? No, we do not quantify these cost measures. As I said before, it is based on projects that are not feasible at the moment, hiring freeze. It's a certain impact, of course, but we are not quantifying it. All right. So and then in terms of taking down working hours, that's just the countries like U. K. And France where you're using Showtime Teams but not elsewhere? Or are you taking some tough working hours elsewhere now? No, that's what I said before. Short time work, we only implemented in the limited implemented in France and the U. K. From a group perspective, it's not material. Right. But the cost measures you're taking, is there are you letting go temps or something like that? Or are you negotiating sure like sort of working with something like that would work as outside of the government schemes. Yes, as I said, from the previous question, we are able to set our operations mainly planned logistics as well as fluctuation in demand by staff and workers, but also by some flexibility for permanent workers in working hours, but also occasion planning and so on. Of course, we use as much as possible flexibility in these areas. Thank you. And finally, what is the percentage of trends that you have kind of running normally, so say, at the end of the fiscal year end of 2020? Maybe 10% that would have an exact figure, right in the 10th figure. And the next one is of Alexandre Foletti. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for taking the questions. I have 3, hopefully, quick one questions. Maybe can you provide an CapEx guidance for the year? I still don't know how money is reducing CapEx from previous plan. So I just would like to have an idea how much plan are you going in Swiss francs? And then could you repeat, please, the answer on the previous question regarding the cost of rebranding and digitization? Sorry about that. And then my third question, maybe a little bit more general. You already have an idea on how the behavior, the customer behavior related to social distancing basis basically when it comes to accessing your showrooms, I. E, an extension to, I don't know, go back as before go back, you have some major measures. What kind of some projects which we are not able to completely execute this year. But again, a good sign, obviously, a sign that we lost some demand and restructuring. We keep our CapEx much more or less on the brand level around €160,000,000,000 in the year. Our investment in the initiatives of digitalization, brand harmonization this year are unchanged. This means we invested about CHF16,000,000 in the additional digitalization efforts CHF10 1,000,000 in the brand harmonization this year. The third question about customer behavior and social distancing. Social distancing is exactly one of the reasons why we see in all of the countries a decline in our demand. Because social distancing have an impact not only And the last question from today is from Marta Brusca of Berenberg. Your line is now open, madam. Go ahead. Hello. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Just wanted to clarify as most of the questions are already answered. From the 45,000,000 euros cost origination cost, how much is booked in Q1? Thank you. I would say it's around that. I don't really expect Not much seasonality in these 2 years across the year. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. As there are no further questions for today, I have the first speaker for closing remarks. It seems there are no further questions. Thank you for your participation. We wish you all a great and healthy day. Bye. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call is being concluded. You may disconnect.