Sika AG (SWX:SIKA)
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Apr 27, 2026, 5:30 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q3 2023

Oct 20, 2023

Dominik Slappnig
Head of Corporate Communications & Investor Relations, Sika

Good afternoon, and welcome to our 9-month results company call. Present on the call with me today is Thomas Hasler, CEO, Adrian Widmer, CFO, and Christine Kukan, Head of IR. We published our 9-month figures this morning at 5:00 A.M. The 9-month presentation is as well published on our website. With this, Thomas Hasler and Adrian Widmer will provide further details on the results and the outlook. Afterwards, we will be ready to take your questions. I hand now over to Thomas to start with the highlights of these 9 months.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Thank you, Dominik, and good afternoon to our nine-month results call from my side. In summary, Sika performed very strong in a very challenging economical environment and geopolitical distress. It is a nine-month result that needs a few explanation as we have the reported numbers and underlying business evolution, which we will present in the coming 45 minutes. We reported an increase in net sales of 5.6% in Swiss francs, a heavy impact from the currency appreciation because our local currency growth is 12.4%. The vast majority of our growth comes from acquisition, 11.1% in local currency. That leaves 1.3% on the organic side. The organic side has strongly come back from a weak start into the year, and we have momentum going forward.

This gives us confidence also going into the Q4 and into next year. On the material margin, which has been and still remains a strong target for us to reestablish our corridor of 54%-55%, we achieved 53.1% in the first nine months, a strong recovery considering last year's level of 49.3%. On the reported EBIT margin of 13.5%, which is lower than prior year, we have to consider in there also the one-time effects. If we take the one-time effects out, our underlying EBIT margin is at 14.8%, which again, is 100 basis points higher than prior year. Here, Adrian will go into the details, guiding you through this. For me, it's very important that the underlying organic business is going and moving in the right direction.

As an indication for this, our Q3 performance is the strongest Q3 or strongest quarter ever on absolute numbers in profitability, but it is also one of the strongest ever achieved in Sika's history. It's 24.3% higher than Q3 2022, and it is a quarter where we had little impact from one-time, so it is a much more transparent comparison of the going rate of Sika, given all the great, let's say, achievements in the first nine months with MBCC now being closed, but at the same time, of course, also having then one-time effects into our reported EBIT.

We did also other acquisitions, Thiessen Team in July and Chema in August. Important additions to the concrete business in North America or to the local business in Peru, a strong market where we now have more opportunities, by almost doubling our presence in the distribution market. Again, one of the typical bolt-on transactions that we stand for and that we are aiming also to continue in the future. Organically, we further invest in India. India is one of the hotspots. We have double-digit growth in India.

India, we also foresee in the coming period, in the coming years, that with all the infrastructure activity, India is the place to be, and we added just in time another plant to our footprint in India, which now is up to 12 factories all across the continent. We also reinforced our business in the U.S., the Chattanooga plant, which is producing fibers for the concrete business. All in all, a very eventful nine months. Challenges from the outside, which we tackle, which we turn into opportunities.

From the inside, the integration of MBCC and the expansion of our footprint, all in line with our strategy, which by the way, we also then reported beginning of October, not exactly within the nine months, but certainly another highlight, which is indicating our confidence into the future, into the next five years with the elevated growth expectation, and again, with the new EBITDA target range of 20%-23%, which we aim starting to implement beginning of next year into the new strategy period. With that, I would close the introduction and hand over to Adrian to go and give some more details on the business.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Very good, and well, thank you, Thomas, here for the highlights. Good afternoon, good morning to all of you here listening in. I will talk a bit more about here, the composition of our growth also in the regions, and provide, you know, further insights into the financial results. We have heard it, we're currently operating in quite a challenging environment. We have been able to deliver local currency growth of 12.4% in the first nine months of the year, which is strongly driven by the acquisition of MBCC, and includes five months of the MBCC results. Organic growth was 1.3% for the first nine months.

If you look at Q3 in isolation, these are 2.5% organic growth, in spite of one working day less. Clearly here also a notch up in the right directions. Acquisitions, almost entirely related to MBCC, added 11.1% of additional growth in the period, in the first nine months. Currency effects continue to be very significantly negative, and also here, even picked up a notch in Q3, reducing local currency growth by 6.8 percentage points, with a corresponding Swiss franc growth of 5.6%.

Here, negative currency effects are, you know, across the board, but primarily driven by the main currencies, the U.S. dollars, the euro, the Japanese yen, and also the RMB, as well as generally a high inflation environment in many of the emerging markets. When we look at the regional growth, here, all regions delivered double-digit growth in the first nine months, and all, with the exception of global business, you know, benefited from the acquisition of MBCC. Region EMEA grew 10.6% at constant currencies.

Here, organic growth was -2.2%, although growth and volume development showed a further improving trend in Q3, and the Middle East posted very strong growth, and also Europe South showed a very solid development in Q3 and a further improvement, while Northern Europe and the DACH area remained subdued. MBCC added 12.8% of growth in the EMEA region, and the foreign exchange effect was -5.8%. Region Americas. Region Americas recorded the growth of 14%, also here, heavily driven by MBCC. Business in North America was negatively influenced by rising inflation and increasing interest rate environment, but also by destocking in the roofing sector in the first half of the year.

Key growth supporters were infrastructure projects and ongoing reshoring activities. Most markets in Latin America showed a solid growth, and acquisition contributed 13.9% of growth. Here, also, foreign exchange effects heavily negative, which reduced Swiss franc growth by, you know, 6.2%. Sales in Asia Pacific increased by 13.5% as organic growth in Q3 remained solid, particularly the distribution business in China recorded double-digit growth, while project activity saw a slight decline. We have heard about India, double-digit growth, while Japan is showing an improving trend in Q3. MBCC here contributed 8.1 points of growth on top of a solid organic growth of 5.4%.

In the Asia Pacific region, foreign exchange impact is the most negative one, with -10.2%, particularly due to the weak Japanese yen and the RMB. Finally, global business delivered 13.3% growth in the first nine months, with underlying build rate growth being positive on the back of solid demand for e-vehicles, but also supply chain normalization. Sika sales outgrew build rate growth in spite of continued negative production volumes in the market for white goods, which is also included in global business. In addition, the strike in the U.S. automotive sector in September had a negative impact on growth. Also here, a negative FX impact of -5.1%.

If we move down the P.&L., we have heard it. We have delivered a very strong and significant increase of the material margin, with a gross result expanding by 380 basis points to 53.1%, up from 49.3 in the first nine months of the previous year. Also, quarter-on-quarter, Q3 marked a further expansion of the material margin. Solid pricing in combination with a continued decline of raw material input cost, but also ongoing structural saving initiatives led to this significant expansion.

As you can see in the EBIT bridge provided as part of the nine-month presentation, there was a small dilution effect coming from short-term PPA effects relating to MBCC, 15 basis points of impact, as well as initial procurement synergies included in the synergy bucket in MBCC. Reported operating costs, which includes both personnel costs as well as other operating expenses, developed over-proportionally, but include significant one-off related M&A costs, all reported in the other operating expense line. Also here, I will allude a bit in more detail later on.

Just in looking at personnel costs, here an increase by 12.8% versus a top-line growth of 5.6 with the acquisition of MBCC as the main contributor, while organic headcount development was slightly negative, but wage inflation accounted for about a 5% personnel cost increase on a like-for-like basis, leading to a negative cost leverage. Other operating expenses increased significantly, but as mentioned, were impacted by an extraordinary one-time profit last year, resulting from the divestment of the corrosion protection business. While last year's expenses in connection with the MBCC acquisition were relatively moderate, but in combination, resulted in a positive net impact of CHF 129 million in the first nine months of 2022. This was reported in other operating expenses.

On the other hand, this year, we had one-time costs related to the acquisition and integration of MBCC of CHF 105 million with a similar negative impact. Excluding these items, other operating costs increased by 13.1%, driven by MBCC, but also due to higher energy costs and modestly higher marketing and travel costs as we maintain high level of customer engagement and market-facing activities. If you look at the non-material cost and the negative cost leverage there of -210 basis points, this is an improvement of 20 basis points versus the first half year and is more than 60% inflation-driven.

Depreciation and amortization expense increased by CHF 68 million in absolute terms to CHF 358 million, or 4.2% of net sales, primarily due to MBCC and additional intangible amortization in the first five months since closing. This corresponds to an MBCC amortization expense impact of about CHF 100 million on a 12-month basis. As a result, reported EBIT decreased by 7% to CHF 1.145 billion, down from CHF 1,232 million, and an EBIT ratio of 13.5%. As mentioned, reported EBIT for Q3 in isolation, however, increased by a strong 24.3% to CHF 484.4 million.

If we exclude the above-mentioned one-time costs related to the acquisition and integration of MBCC, as well as the gain last year, year-to-date EBIT margin increased significantly by 100 basis points from 13.8% in the previous year period to 14.8% this year, or by CHF 150 million in absolute terms. On a pure like-for-like basis, basically the organic development here, EBIT, as a percentage of net sales, increased by 170 basis points to an underlying EBIT margin of 15.5%. Also here, I make reference to the provided bridge. Looking below the EBIT line, net interest expense also increased significantly by CHF 53 million compared to the same period of last year.

To CHF 87.7 billion. The increase is largely related to the refinancing of the MBCC acquisition and the three bond issuances in November 2022, as well as in March and May of this year. On the other financial expense line, also here, an increase by CHF 59 million to CHF 80 million in the first nine months of 2023. Here, primarily due to the impact of hyperinflation accounting, higher hedging costs, which are driven by the increasing interest differential and higher foreign exchange volatility. In looking at the tax rate, here, the group tax rate remained at the same level, 24.9%, and was positively impacted by a goodwill amortization benefit, resulting from the MBCC transaction in the amount of CHF 19 million.

This CHF 19 million was booked in quarter three. As a result, net profit decreased by 16.9% to CHF 736.5 million. This is down from the previous year level, but a clear improvement versus the first six months of the year, also on that line. Turning to cash flow, here, operating free cash flow developed very, very strongly with a significant increase compared to the same period of last year. In the first nine months, we delivered CHF 877 million in operating free cash flow, which is more than double the amount of the previous year period.

Here, focused working capital management, lower inventory valuations and levels, as well as the normalization of the supply chain in general, were the main contributors, as well as a positive cash effect relating to intercompany financing and hedging activities. This strong cash generation, as well as the early conversion of the outstanding convertible bond that was concluded in September, led to a strongly reduced net debt to EBITDA ratio of 3.0x on a reported basis. This is down from 4.1x in June this year. With this, I conclude my remarks and hand back to Thomas for the outlook.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Thank you, Adrian. On the outlook, which is a really confirmation of what we also presented at the Capital Market Day, we expect our sales and local currency to exceed 15%. This is including the MBCC top-line aspect, as well as an over-proportional increase in EBIT, excluding the MBCC acquisition, which I consider the organic performance of the company. In addition to that, the operating free cash flow will be in the range of the midterm target of the strategy, which means above 10%. That's our expectation for the fiscal year 2023, going into Q4 and into the finish of the year. With that, we would now open up for questions.

Operator

We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question or make a comment may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered a queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only hands if they're asking a question. Anyone with a question may press star and one at this time. The first question comes from Arnaud Lehmann from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Arnaud Lehmann
Research Analyst, Bank of America

Very good. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody. I have two questions, please. Firstly, on the Q3 organic growth, as you mentioned, was a little bit better, 2.5% on my estimates. We know that the base effect is gonna get easier in the fourth quarter because the volume started to slow down in Q4 2022. I guess, assuming we keep the same run rate into the fourth quarter, do you expect an acceleration of the organic growth on a year-on-year basis? That's my first question. Within that, what are the moving parts in terms of the volumes and the pricing? That would be helpful. Secondly, we have seen kind of raw materials, in particular, oil prices moving higher.

Could you give us an indication of the implication for your material expenses and whether that is driving you to consider new price increase, maybe for January next year? Thank you.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Okay. Thank you, Arnold. What makes me feel confident, also not only in Q4 but going forward, is the organic growth. As you mentioned, it's, of course, a combination of price and volume. Here, when we look into the evolution from Q1 into Q3 and then also a bit in continuation in Q4 and into next year, it's very obvious that the high impact from the price is coming constantly down and is going back into a range which we would almost say is a normal price adjustment year-over-year. This is good in a way that it doesn't distort, let's say, the volume aspects, which I see as a more relevant factor.

When we consider that we started into Q1 with a double-digit negative volume in EMEA, in particular, but also the other regions, with exception of Global Business had negative volume. This has shaped over the course of the year in the right direction, still leading to negative overall, but now we are at the level of the volume where we can say that all our reporting regions have a positive trend. Overall, when I look at our largest region, EMEA, we see that here there's a good probability that we will come back into positive volume, driven by especially, let's say, our distribution business in Europe South, in Spain, in France, in Portugal, in the U.K.

I think, yes, it's also a relatively weak prior year quarter ahead of us. Overall, the progression and the momentum, especially on the volume, is giving us confidence also to finish the year and also to start next year strong. On the raw material side, it's correct, it's less maybe dependent on the oil. I think the oil hasn't, let's say, peaked or changed, even so the Middle East events were a risk in this regard. The raw materials overall are having seen and let's say, adjustments downward are now leveling, and there's a decapacitation visible upstream to respond to a weaker demand. Therefore, the price in general are leveling or starting to pick up again.

Here then we have also some outliers that are constantly going up, and cement as a good example is a raw material significant to us that has seen quite strong increases in the past 12 months, and this is going to continue. Which, to answer your question, of course, together with other inflationary elements on the non-material side, is going to influence our pricing going forward. As mentioned before, probably more within normal terms of price adjustments and not the huge adjustments we have seen in the past 18 months, which were mandated by the special situation we had on the input cost side.

Arnaud Lehmann
Research Analyst, Bank of America

That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question comes from Cedar Ekblom from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Cedar Ekblom
Executive Director, Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Thanks very much. Good afternoon, everyone. I've got a question on the antitrust inspection that happened earlier this week. I don't know if you'd be willing to comment on that and also maybe give us a bit of an understanding on the % of revenues that might have been inspected, and also if this was just an inspection for European assets or if it included any of your U.S. assets. Secondly, on the gross margin, I think the recovery has been much faster than or at least my expectations. On your comments on sort of raw materials now maybe starting to find a level, should we assume that most of that gross margin recovery is done and not to expect too much more from here into the end of 2023?

Is there a potential for a little bit more gross margin recovery to come through? Thank you.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Okay. Thank you, Cedar. I take the first question on the antitrust investigation. I can confirm that the antitrust authorities in the E.U., in the U.K., as well as in Turkey and in the U.S., have started an investigation into the concrete admixture market. This is an investigation across the whole industry, and we are here with highest, let's say, interest, active to collaborate and to investigate this investigation. This is a lengthy investigation which has started. We cannot comment on the progression, but I would say it's for us, very important that this business is acting behaviorally in line and fair with the regulations.

Sika has a strong compliance structure and a zero-tolerance policy in place. Here, this is an investigation we fully support. It is an investigation which will take time, and I cannot go further in details, other than I can confirm that some of our premises in Europe and in Turkey have been visited, and this is an ongoing investigation.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

I think the underlying trend, I think it is a continuation where I think it will be relatively similar in Q4 and compared to Q3, but obviously many sort of elements still being a bit volatile in this area. I would not foresee, let's say, you know, a significant here further, you know, increase in Q4, you know, given the, let's say, the time of year.

Cedar Ekblom
Executive Director, Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Thanks very much. Just a follow-up, Thomas, on the antitrust issue. I don't know if you can talk about.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Yeah.

Cedar Ekblom
Executive Director, Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

To what period this relates to, and if there is anything to say about the culture at MBCC, which might have been a bit different to Sika's culture on zero tolerance, and if there is any risks that you might have now inherited, which we need to think about? Basically, ahead of you buying that business, right?

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Yes. I-

Cedar Ekblom
Executive Director, Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

You know. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

a very strong, uh, compliance culture, and, uh, it's very similar to ours." * "MBCC, since we have now five months behind us, but also as to be expected with the long, let's say, ownership of BASF, has a very strong compliance culture, and it's very similar to ours." * Wait, "NBCC since, uh, since". If I remove the stuttered "since", it's "MBCC since we have now five months behind us". * Wait, "ownership of, of BASF". Stutter. "ownership of BASF". * Wait, "compliance culture, and, uh, it's". "compliance culture, and it's". * Wait, "There's a zero, zero tolerance, uh, policy in place, and, uh, this is constantly, let's say, conveyed and trade, uh, trained across the organization, and it is, uh, much too early to, to come to conclusion." * "

There's a zero tolerance policy in place, and this is constantly, let's say, conveyed and trained across the organization, and it i

Maybe just, Cedar, to add to this, the MBCC business in Europe has been sold to Cinven as well as the MBCC admixture business in North America. That's not part of our business today.

Cedar Ekblom
Executive Director, Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Great. Thank you so much.

Operator

The next question comes from Yassine Touahri from On Field Investment Research. Please go ahead.

Yassine Touahri
Founder & Managing Partner, On Field Investment Research

Yes, maybe a question on your scope effect. I think in the previous conference call, you were suggesting, like, you would expect a scope impact of close to CHF 1.4 billion in 2023. Is it still the case? How much would come from MBCC, and how much would come from the bolt-on acquisition that you've done over the past 12 months? That would be my first question. Then a second question on the volume development. You talked a little bit about Europe. In the U.S., it looks like the volume were a little bit weak. Do you see a recovery in the fourth quarter?

In Asia, we are hearing a lot of negative news about the Chinese economy. Do you feel you can continue to outperform, or do you think that there will, there could be a little bit of a slowdown in your activity in the coming quarter?

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Yassine, I'll take the first one. I'm not quite sure whether I understood it correct. You were referring to, let's say, 2023. What is sort of the acquisition impact? Is it entirely MBCC or is there, you know, additional acquisition impact? Is that the question?

Yassine Touahri
Founder & Managing Partner, On Field Investment Research

Yeah, that's correct. I think you gave a number of CHF 1.4 billion last quarter, and I just wanted to know if it's like still the order of magnitude is still the same.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Yeah. I mean, broadly, yes. Obviously here, it is a number which is also impacted by, let's say, foreign exchange. I mean, we consolidated actual rates, so to the extent, you know, currencies move, you know, there may be, you know, a certain impact on that overall number. I can confirm that, let's say, acquisition impact this year will be by and large, you know, MBCC. Let's say the other bolt-ons in terms of, you know, impact will be less than 0.5 percentage point.

Yassine Touahri
Founder & Managing Partner, On Field Investment Research

Next year, the bolt-on that you've done, would you expect also the same order of magnitude, like 0.5 percentage point, based on what you've done?

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Yeah, the one that are done, that is roughly the level, yes.

Yassine Touahri
Founder & Managing Partner, On Field Investment Research

Thank you.

Adrian Widmer
CFO, Sika

Okay. Yassine, to the volumes of the Americas here, dissimilar to EMEA, we haven't started with, let's say, a double-digit negative volume into the year, but rather with a higher single-digit number. This number is

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

More constants than in EMEA and remains negative also over the course of the year. Therefore, where we have seen a much, let's say, stronger improvement from double-digit negative into single, into low single-digit in EMEA, the Americas is more, let's say, resilient in a negative mid-range volume pattern. Therefore, initially, we have seen, especially in the U.S., some destocking elements that were driving this, but we also see here some more, let's say, inflation and interest cost-driven elements that faster recovery are probably hindering. That's a bit the difference between EMEA and the Americas.

Asia Pacific actually is constantly getting better with positive volumes from the beginning of the year, being still slightly negative, but moving after Q1, after China came back, at least to levels that were providing volume growth, and keeps this positive volume growth also in Q3, and we expect also in Q4, that we will see nice volume growth in Asia Pacific. Here, it's not only China that is relevant, but India is very relevant. Also, Japan has a positive trend, even so, let's say the economy is stagnating. We have a nice, I would say, momentum to play on.

Southeast Asia, with the exception of Vietnam, is also very strong on the volume side.

Yassine Touahri
Founder & Managing Partner, On Field Investment Research

Thank you very much.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

You're welcome.

Operator

The next question comes from Yves Bromehead from Société Générale. Please, go ahead.

Speaker 11

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my question. I just wanted to come back to a few questions and add a bit of clarity if you could. Just coming back to the antitrust, can you confirm that the concrete technology division is about 15% of sales, and therefore, U.S. and Europe is probably the bulk of it? Also on that point, do you inherit from any wrongdoings of MBCC, or can this be tied back to BASF? That's my first question. Maybe my second question, coming back on the raw materials, you talked about flattening of raw materials. Just wanted to make sure I get this right, but are we talking about a flat curve sequentially from the current levels, or are we talking year-on-year? Just wanted to make that clear.

Last but not least, maybe last question on wage inflation for next year, what should we have in mind on a like-for-like basis, and can you offset some of that with cost savings?

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Okay, first, to the question on the antitrust and the magnitude, your assumption in regards to concrete is about correct. It's about 15% ±. The business is well spread across the globe. It's a core business of ours, and since we have not taken over the MBCC business in Europe and in the U.S., I would say it's probably much more balanced in regards to the activities as if we would have been able to integrate the MBCC. The MBCC business in Europe and in North America has been sold to Cinven prior us taking control. That's not part of our investigation.

In size terms, I mean, we have significant business in Asia, in the rest of the world. I think this is well balanced. Your second question.

Speaker 11

My second question was on the raw materials. You talked about flatlining or flattening, sorry. Just wanted to-

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Yeah.

Speaker 11

Make sure this is like a sequential move that you're referring to, rather than a year-on-year move.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

That's a sequential move, yes.

Speaker 11

Great. My last question was on wage inflation. What's your expectation for 2024, and if you can sort of offset that with cost savings?

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Yes. I was mentioning here that the 5%, which we'll be incurring this year, the expectation for next year would be a bit less. We have, let's say, historically, as we have been operating obviously across the globe, also in many high inflation environments, sort of had a 3%-3.5% wage inflation impact across the board, which we are typically able to, you know, offset in terms of impact with, you know, a certain level of growth. That would also be the expectation for next.

Speaker 11

Perfect. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Thanks, Steve.

Operator

The next question comes from Christian Arnold from Stifel Schweiz. Please go ahead.

Christian Arnold
Equity Research Analyst, Stifel

Yes, good afternoon, gentlemen. One question on the operating free cash flow, which was enormous in Q3, I think from CHF 560 million. You mentioned working capital management, lower inventories, normalized supply chain. I mean, that is not the new run rate, right? There's probably also some seasonal effect. What shall we consider as a normal rating for free cash flow? Some CHF 300 million-CHF 400 million?

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Yeah, I would actually expect that. No, it is, I mean, very clearly in terms of seasonal pattern, the second half year is typically much, much stronger than the first, you know, half year. Let's say in a normal environment, you can almost assume it's sort of, you know, 70%-75% of the cash generation. Q3 has been very strong. That is on the one hand related to the factors I've been alluding to. You know, obviously, also, let's say, you know, profitability improvements. There is many elements.

I mean, typically, you know, Q3 is a strong quarter, sort of overlaid now with these elements, but clearly our target is to exceed, you know, 10% of sales on an ongoing basis. Obviously, as we grow and improve also profitability, we will continue to see a strong cash generation, but probably not quite, you know, every time at the Q3 rate.

Christian Arnold
Equity Research Analyst, Stifel

Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Elodie Rall from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Elodie Rall
Equity Research Analyst, JP Morgan

Oh, hi. Thank you for taking my question. I have a question on pricing. We've talked a lot about raw materials leveling off or flattening, secondly. At the moment, volumes are maybe improving a bit, but stay weakish, so consumers are under pressure. We see multi-year highs interest rates. Do you have any pushback at the moment from your customers if you're trying to push pricing further up, especially into 2024? We're just curious to see what the reaction is at the moment from customers. If you think that the business is strong enough at the moment to push further prices up if needed. My second question is on just a little bit of on China.

If you go into detail, you said you're seeing double-digit growth in distribution, but the project activity, seeing some slight decline. I was wondering if you could give us the, or like the run rate of the China business at the moment. If there is any pricing difference between distribution and project activity in general? Thanks very much.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Okay. Yes, I take those questions. On the pricing, I mean, pricing is an art. Pricing is a communication art with the customers. Over the past 24 months, you know, we have to engage, and we do this in a professional way. It's a lot about communicating where the pressure comes from and also then helping our customers to eventually offset some of that by offering alternative solutions, achieving the same goals. So we are heavily, let's say, interacted and linked with our customers as we understand that no customer likes a cost increase in general.

This is different, let's say, in the direct and in the indirect business where we strongly engage and find then, let's say, win-win solution, even so the prices have to go up. The understanding, broadly speaking, is also clear and also expectations when, let's say, key raw materials come down. Also those discussions are not easy discussions, but they're very professional. Since we have a strong sales force across the globe that is close to the customer, we try to create, let's say, possibilities to offset and so that the customer is not taking the full hit, but can also offset through changes in the portfolio or in the processes.

As the product is only one cost, it's also labor cost that we can help to reduce. It is very, very interactive, but it is very, very close to each of the customer and their needs. We have done this through, let's say, a very turbulent time with the massive increases we had to push through. Now, also, when things are more flattening, when things are, let's say more, let's say, selective, then those discussions are very similar, and definitely, no customer makes you an extra coffee because you bring in a price increase discussion. At the same time, they understand it's also an opportunity eventually to optimize total cost instead of just going into a discussion, what's the liter? What's the kilogram price? What's the change?

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There is an impact. You are absolutely correct that both businesses are not going at the same pace, but in combination, we are almost at the double-digit level, and we also expect there that this will also in the coming quarters improve it also on the direct business. We will see some improvements. Here, for instance, the manufacturing industry, the export of goods is on an all-time low, so to say. But here we also expect that there will be also more export coming for manufactured goods. We have also have a strong presence in the direct business in China.

Stefanie Scholtysik
Senior Equity Analyst, Mirabaud Securities

Okay. As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star followed by one. The next question comes from Stefanie Scholtysik

Yes, good afternoon. I have a question on the DACH region. You mentioned in Europe that the southern part of Europe was strong and the DACH region less so. Could you share with us if this dynamic or the momentum in the DACH region weakened over the third quarter, or did it improve? What do you expect in the fourth quarter and also maybe going in 2024? How do you see Germany, Switzerland, and Austria, like the DACH region? Do you think we have seen the lowest point already?

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

I mean, in the DACH region, we also have a south deviation because there's a clear difference between Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. Switzerland is performing very strong, very resilient. The construction industry is slightly impacted, but actually, we have a much bigger impact in Germany and in Austria. I mean, Switzerland, as we all know, is still, let's say, short on residential living rooms, so we have lots of activities on that side. We have infrastructure projects that are advancing. We have refurbishment. Switzerland clearly cannot be put in the same bucket when it comes to the trend than Germany and Austria.

Germany and Austria, here we see a very strong impact coming from the residential side, the distribution side, but unfortunately, also, let's say, the infrastructure and the commercial areas are rather weak. Here, that's an element that I would say is the insecurity or the uncertainty in regards to the policies on energy, on sustainability, the complexity that is hindering, let's say, investments as we would consider to come into play. Your question, have you seen the bottom of the evolution in Germany and Austria? I do think so. At least our business is indicating this. We see that the low point is behind us. It's a slow recovery.

It would very much benefit from some stronger, let's say, guidance from the authorities. Not expecting this means that probably this slow recovery in Germany and in Austria will take more time, but it is at least, let's say, an upward trend and no longer a downward trend, which we have seen in the past 12 months. I'm slightly optimistic. We have a strong organization that can outperform, let's say, the market, and is outperforming. We have the reinforcement of our strong presence with the MBCC acquisition. When I look at this, I'm much more positive about our business in Germany, but the economical outlook and the activities are just slightly coming back in the coming quarters, probably, and also into next year.

Stefanie Scholtysik
Senior Equity Analyst, Mirabaud Securities

Okay, very good. A second question, if I may, on the Global Business. I expected this one to be a bit stronger. Can you maybe elaborate a bit on what has caused the troubles in the automotive industry? Was it mainly the strikes in the U.S., or is it just the consumer that's not picking up, and therefore production is also lagging or still supply chain issues? What were the reasons, and where do you think it's already heading to? What exactly were the volumes and the price, maybe just to start with in Q3?

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Yeah. I mean, that's, it's well observed. I mean, we had an all-time high in the build rates last years, and we had a constant recovery of build rates starting in Q3 last year. That continues still. The Q2, Q1 this year, comparison to last year, were significantly higher in build rates, where the Q3 this year, compared to last year, was only a slight change in the build rate. We see now a flattening of the trend going forward. This is, let's say, the underlying volume of the industry.

It's normalizing more and more, but then we should not forget, we have, unfortunately, the strike in the U.S. which is shutting down several plants of our customers. That has, let's say, not yet a huge impact, but it will probably further slow the outlook for Q4, that the build rates are not going to recover much beyond what the build rates were last year in Q4. Therefore, it's a bit flattening. In addition to that, of course, the currency impact is also in global business, quite heavy, as we have euro and U.S. dollar and also yen, sorry, RMB is in that mix. The, let's say, the local currency growth is more indicative.

Stefanie Scholtysik
Senior Equity Analyst, Mirabaud Securities

Okay, thanks a lot, and have a nice weekend.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Thank you.

Dominik Slappnig
Head of Corporate Communications & Investor Relations, Sika

Thank you, Steffie, and we see that there are no more questions. This brings us to the end of our call. We take this opportunity to highlight the date of our net sales figures publication. It will be on January 10th, 2024. With this, we thank you for listening to our call and for your interest in Sika. We wish you all the best. Bye-bye.

Thomas Hasler
CEO, Sika

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Christian Arnold
Equity Research Analyst, Stifel

Thank you.

Stefanie Scholtysik
Senior Equity Analyst, Mirabaud Securities

Thank you.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.

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