Standing by. This is the event operator. Welcome to Barrick's results presentation for fourth quarter of 2023. Following today's presentation, a question and answer session will be conducted. If you have a question and are joining the event by telephone, please press star, then one on your telephone keypad. We will also be taking questions from those in the room. As a reminder, this event is being recorded and a replay will be available on Barrick's website later today, February 14th, 2024. I would now like to turn the call over to Mark Bristow, President and CEO of Barrick. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you very much, and very good morning and good afternoon to everyone today. I want to start this presentation with some reflection back to the time of the merger, where we committed to a clear strategy for building the new Barrick into the world's most valued mining company. Move on now to today, five years on, it's clear that we've come a long way in realizing that objective. As I'll show you through my presentation, our focus on Tier One assets has delivered a peerless gold portfolio with meaningful potential for further growth, matched only by the significant ramp-up of our copper business over the next four years.
Maintaining Barrick's unique record for replenishing our asset base, we have replaced more than 140% of our gold reserves since 2019, and more importantly, at the same grade, which is critical. In Tanzania, our Twiga joint venture success has demonstrated the power of our partnership approach, and we are aiming to replicate that at many of our other operations, including Porgera and Reko Diq. Our belief that combining the best assets with the best people will yield the best returns has produced an industry-leading production profile, backed by a strong balance sheet and sustainable dividend and capital return policy. Under every heading, asset quality, operational excellence, peerless people, and sustainable profitability, we have now ticked virtually every box on our report card.
As this presentation includes some forward-looking information, I start with the usual cautionary statement, which, if you are so inclined, you can read it at your leisure on the website. Protecting the health and safety of our people is Barrick's top priority, and last year, we made tangible progress in what we call our Journey to Zero, posting the best results since the merger. As you can see here, both lagging indicators, the Lost Time Injury Frequency Rate and the Total Recordable Injury Rate, continued to come down. There is however, a lot more work to do on eliminating fatalities, clearly a subject where there's no room for complacency. Our focus remains fixed on the zero goal, and the enormous progress made by our Latin America and Asia Pacific region shows that this is well within our global reach.
In 2023, we were able to progress our sustainability strategy significantly. Our commitment to real sustainability has long been the bedrock of our business, and it's based on a holistic approach which integrates all aspects of our environmental and community responsibilities as distinct from the siloed ESG model. The numbers you can see here show the tangible benefits this strategy is delivering. As you all know, we had a slow start to the year with the operational issues at NGM and Kibali, and then towards the end of the year, the commissioning setbacks with Pueblo Viejo's plant expansion impacting on production. Notwithstanding that, we delivered a steady quarter-on-quarter improvement through the year, and despite another good fourth quarter, we fell fractionally short of our gold guidance, while copper met its guidance.
Highlights of the year were our sustained and an industry-leading gold and copper reserve replacement, which is one of the key differentiators between Barrick and its peers. Another consistent performance from the AME region and a strong financial performance, admittedly, with the wind of a record gold price at our backs. Our strong balance sheet, reflected by our investment-grade rating, also stands us in good stead as we navigate these uncertain times. The results for the fourth quarter reflect the improved performances from Cortez, Phoenix, and Pueblo Viejo, where we have now resolved the equipment issues in the flotation circuit. Costs were slightly higher than the previous quarter, mainly due to lower grade stockpile feed processed at Loulo-Gounkoto as a result of a pit wall failure at the Gounkoto open pit.
Lower grades processed at Carlin, extra commissioning costs, and the impact of the tropical storm event at Pueblo Viejo. Rather than and this is rather than what people jump to, a structural shift in inflation. I'll touch on all these as I go through the presentation. The financial numbers speak for themselves, but it's worth pointing out that year-on-year operating cash flow increased by 7% and free cash flow grew by 50%. Furthermore, adjusted net earnings per share increased by 12%, and the quarterly, quarterly dividend was maintained at $0.10 per share, in line with our policy. We as usual, will start with the operational review in North America, which is still a work in progress, but on a much firmer foundation and under new leadership that is aligned with Barrick's DNA.
At NGM, the long-awaited Record of Decision enabled Cortez to advance the Goldrush development late in the fourth quarter. In 2024, we are ramping up drilling and the evaluation of Barrick's 100% owned Fourmile project, with a view to commencing a pre-feasibility study by the end of the year, and I'll cover that in more detail a little later.
And in line with Barrick's continued group-wide investment in accessing skills that are in short supply in the industry, NGM has established three early learning centers to increase childcare facilities in the region, and we've also progressed our mine education system, our trial mine training centers, as we call them in South Africa, to make sure that everyone that joins us goes through a proper induction and makes sure that they really understand and are skilled enough to do the job. And it's an integral part of our focus on safety, because that is a big issue.
You know, everyone talks about all sorts of safety procedures, but we've landed on the view that operational excellence is really the foundation of a safe environment, when people know what to do and they do it properly. As elsewhere in the group, the transition to renewable energy gathered pace with the commissioning of the substation and the first 100 MW solar farm in Nevada, with the second 100 MW to be switched on later this year. This is a closer look at NGM, and the details are in the MD&A for those who want to get into the details.
Where the highlights include a near record fourth quarter production from Cortez and the acceleration of the Goldrush development, which is forecast to produce 100,000-130,000 ounces in 2024, growing to around 400,000 ounces by 2028. All in all, we see an exciting future for Cortez. And then looking forward to 2024, we are also stepping up our planned underground development and grade control drilling efforts across both open pits and underground as part of our production delivery assurance program at our Tier One operations, and that does impact on the cost this year. Another noteworthy improvement during the year was the step-up in performance at Turquoise Ridge, following the commissioning of its third shaft and improved performance at the Sage autoclave.
We've still got some work to do on the Sage autoclave, but we now are very clear about what we have to do to really return that processing facility back to where we expect it to operate as far as availabilities go. Turquoise Ridge, because of that, is beginning to live up to its full Tier One potential. Costs for the complex were a little higher quarter-over-quarter, owing to the mix of production, including higher-cost stockpile material, as well as some additional maintenance costs. I always refer to our Nevada Gold Mines complex as our value foundation, and how you can see why. Far from being a mature destination, it is a world-class gold field, which we're successfully exploring for both greenfields and brownfields growth opportunities. We now have a five-year outlook on reserve replacement, and that's quite important.
We've built that foundation, and now we can, like we do in AME and LATAM, we can point to what we have to do to continue to convert over the next 5 years. And the other point is that this year we're gonna be spending quite a bit more of our budget, same budget, but a little bit more, not a little bit, a substantial amount more on greenfields targets, because we built the models, and we're excited about the fact that, in our view, this is not a mature gold field. There's lots of upside in it. And one of those is the recent Robertson discovery, where step-out drilling is confirming upside potential. And the importance of Robertson is it comes with the additional advantage of mostly non-refractory oxide ore.
And then of course, at Carlin, the greater level hosts multiple opportunities, which we expect to continue to support our reserve replacement. As I indicated earlier, I'm just gonna focus a little bit on Fourmile and share the fact that we've decided to expand the drilling and other evaluation work streams at this 100% Barrick-owned project, with a view to starting a pre-feasibility study at the end of 2024. And this year we're actually budgeting $40 million on this project, $25 million for drilling, and the rest will be other work streams to ensure that we're at a stage where we can take this towards a pre-feasibility study at the end of the year.
We believe that this drilling will outline the potential to more than triple the existing mineral resource base with mineralization hosted in rock units that can potentially support large-scale, long-haul, open stoping. Another key aspect of this pro-program, this year's program includes the evaluation of the access portal locations to support development along the strike of the ore body, which would initially be used for conversion drilling and then later be reused for mine haulage in support of a potential Tier One production profile. Outside Nevada, Barrick is actively expanding in North America, and and through generative work and land consolidation, we believe we'll now be able to start sharing with you the detail of our specific targets across the the U.S.
The reason we haven't got all the detail in here is we're still working on consolidating some of the ground. As you know, we are also partners in the Donlin Gold project in Alaska, which we're systematically driving up the value curve. And as I've said many times before, I also believe we're under-invested in our home country, Canada, where we're examining opportunities in the prospective Sturgeon Lake and Patrice projects through grassroots, district-scale exploration programs. And finally, at our existing Hemlo mine, we continue to advance the open-pit project study. We move down, now down south to what started as Latin America region, but has since expanded to encompass Asia and the Pacific.
In Argentina, Veladero, something special, delivered something special in the shape of a performance that beat its production and cost guidance and, you know, we've been struggling with that mine, and last year we said, "Let's stop, cut it back a bit, reestablish it, bring in a fresh set of eyes as far as leadership goes." And really, the team did an excellent job in beating its guidance, both on production and on costs. And in fact, as a product of that, we've added back about two years of mining to the pit, because we're much more comfortable about our ability to deliver value from that asset. And of course, we're all waiting for the new government to start delivering on their promises to be a lot more business friendly.
Elsewhere in the region, you'll have seen the years of negotiation with the government finally delivered a revived Porgera in Papua New Guinea, and the mine is scheduled to start pouring gold again this quarter. And in Pakistan, the massive Reko Diq copper gold project continues to advance steadily towards first production in 2028. Our flagship growth project, the expansion of Pueblo Viejo in the Dominican Republic, as I shared with you last time, suffered some setbacks in the form of premature failure of flotation gearboxes and the collapse of the new crushed ore stockpile conveyor structure. And our highly committed and tenacious team overcame the challenges to deliver an improved performance in quarter four, notwithstanding, in addition to these two events, a 1 in 500-year tropical storm.
I think it's important that, you know, when we—Back in 2019, we had some focus on managing the water and particularly ensuring that it stays within the footprint of the mine. And we were able to manage this massive storm event and not have any major environmental incidents. So a real tribute to the management. Just to remind you, this project is designed to sustain average annual production in excess of 800,000 ounces over a life of mine beyond 2040. And we will have, as I said earlier, we expect to have this conveyor structure reinstalled later this quarter, at the end of this quarter in fact.
Then we'll ramp up. We are currently working on the ramp-up, and I thought I'd show you this slide, which is you can see the progress following the repetitive failures of the new flotation gearboxes, which had to be redesigned, manufactured, and reinstalled. And this, I can confirm, as I indicated last quarter, has been completed and was completed at the end of December. And then the replacement of the crushed ore stockpile conveyor is underway, and we are busy operating under temporary installations and feeding the SAG mill, the second SAG mill, albeit at a reduced throughput. And that ramp-up will accelerate, as I said, after we install the replacement conveyor infrastructure at the end of this quarter.
Elsewhere in the region, we continue to expand the Barrick footprint, and again in LATAM, we've really cleaned up our portfolio, really refocused the exploration efforts on potential targets that have potential to meet our Tier One ambitions. And, as part of that, we've opened a new frontier in Ecuador and secured a high-quality portfolio together with an exciting advanced project in Peru. And in the Veladero District, field work is defining drill-ready targets, and up in Dominican Republic, exploration continues both within the Pueblo Viejo joint venture lease area, as well as across the country. And again, I'm excited that we'll be able to show you some good results in the next couple of quarters arising from that work.
For the fifth consecutive year, as I said in my introduction, in fact, ever since the merger, the Africa and Middle East region delivered on its guidance and replaced its mined reserves. It has also become host to some of Barrick's most exciting organic growth prospects, notably the Lumwana copper mine expansion. We start at Loulo-Gounkoto, where the results speak for themselves. Production was a little lower, as I indicated earlier, and costs higher quarter-over-quarter on the back of lower grades in line with the revised plan following the Gounkoto pit wall failure. As elsewhere at Barrick, the complex is transitioning to renewable energy and its second solar project, a 40 MW solar farm with a 36 MWh battery energy storage system, commissioned ahead of time and below the original capital cost estimates this last quarter.
Kibali is Africa's largest gold mine and a leader in automation and clean energy. Much of the energy that drives Kibali is already supplied by its three hydropower stations. When the mine's new 16 MW solar power plant and battery storage system are commissioned in 2025, it'll increase its overall renewable energy penetration from 79% - 88%, and for six months of the year, its electricity demand will be met entirely from renewables. In Tanzania, our transformative Twiga partnership with the government continues to deliver exceptional results with North Mara and Bulyanhulu achieving the high end of their production guidance for the year. We're also expanding our footprint in the country in the hunt for new world-class discoveries.
Our strategic decision to invest in the expansion of our copper portfolio has led to the Super Pit expansion project at Lumwana in Zambia, and this will transform Lumwana into one of the world's major copper mines, with projected annual production of 240,000 tons per year over a 30+ year life of mine. It is a key component of the Zambian government's drive to revive the country's copper industry over the next 10 years. The estimated cost of the project, as I've already indicated before, is around $1.9 billion, and construction is scheduled to start early next year, with 2028 targeted for first production. The project is being fast-tracked with the completion of the pre-feasibility study, and we project to start ordering long lead items towards the end of this year.
And here you can see our many brownfields and greenfields growth opportunities across the region. Of particular interest is our growing presence in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where, with our partners at the Jabal Sayid copper mine, we are rapidly progressing exploration on the very promising Umm ad Damar permit. And we've already intersected significant VMS-style mineralization at four prospects within this, this property. I've always said, ladies and gentlemen, "To be world-class, you have to be global." And Barrick's presence now extends across all the world's major gold and copper districts outside Russia and China. And we've also, as I said, also rationalized our exploration portfolio, so we really have what's left is targets that have the potential to meet our investment criteria.
This is a solid foundation on which we can grow our production and our value, and it's directed by our proven strategy and supported by the broad spectrum of skills we have developed to build a modern mining business. One of the key qualities that differentiates Barrick from its peers, as I noted earlier, is our ability to replace our reserves organically. And since 2019, we've replaced 140% of the gold we've mined, adding on a 100% basis, 44 million ounces of proven and probable reserves across our managed assets. And in last year, we did it again. And I think people underestimate that. You know how I talk about M&A? And you know, when you do the same thing all the time, over and over again and expect a different outcome, there's a definition for that.
You know, paying 50% premiums for assets and not realizing the only way you can deliver is either find more or wait for the commodity price to lift your revenue line. Finding particularly brownfields reserves, really does sweat the assets, sweat your capital. And again, you know, I've demonstrated this many times throughout my career, and I have no doubt that our focus will deliver again. And we, I think, have some examples developing on which we can prove our strategy. So that's why Barrick is not forced to buy its growth, and it's this growth is organically embedded in our business.
You know, our 10-year plan, which very few mining companies present, is not there to brag about our profile, but it's to give the market a clear understanding that our focus goes beyond next year, and that we are able to see challenges way ahead of, you know, down in our runway and address them. That's always been our model. Again, I think the key here is that we're still working on the back end, as I indicated, of this profile, to fill in the gaps. Based on our long-term track record, I have no doubt we will do it in the fullness of time.
Nevada is a very good example because, you know, we're starting to get to a point where we are able to look, as I said, forward a few years and know where the transition is, the replacement is coming from. And again, we've got a long tail in Nevada, and the big challenge is how we bring it forward. And one of the big focuses this year is gonna be how we schedule the development of the Greater Leeville area, all those different mining sections in northern Carlin. And to support this 10-year plan, here's our detailed 5-year production and cost outlook.
Looking at the next five years, there are a few aspects to note: an increasing production profile, which always brings the cost down. An increase in capital expenditure over the next three years, as we have now included the capital estimates for the Reko Diq and Lumwana Super Pit projects, after which capital starts to decline. And gold per ounce costs are flat year-on-year in 2024, and then start declining in line with the increasing production. Also, as previously flagged, production in 2024 is a little lower than our previous estimate, primarily due to the delay in the record of decision at Goldrush and the slower ramp up of the expansion project at Pueblo Viejo. NGM was always gonna be a softer year in 2024, so the delay in the record of decision for Goldrush has exacerbated this.
Our track record of replacing reserves gives us the confidence to know we can deliver on this outlook without the need for dilutionary or delusionary acquisitions. And importantly, we have the balance sheet strength and operating cash flows to fund this growth, while still maintaining our industry-leading credit rating. As I've often said, mining is a long game, and that should not be measured by quarters. I have no doubt that our strategy and partnership approach, together with the quality of our assets, and most importantly, our people, will deliver real and sustainable long-term value for our shareholders and our stakeholders. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your attention, and we'll be happy to take questions. Operator, over to you. What are we gonna do? We're gonna do from the room first. Do the room first. Okay, there's Greg's hand up.
Hi, Mark. It's Greg Barnes from TD. Just a couple of questions. One, there's been some political turmoil in Pakistan over the past week. Do you see that having any impact on your schedule on Reko Diq, with the sort of change in government? I'm not quite sure what's going on.
So, yeah, I mean... So let me try and explain the situation. When we initiated the recommencement of Reko Diq following the arbitration award, it was with Imran Khan. And he's the person who actually brought it back into play, along with us. And then the government changed to the Sharif government, but we signed the framework agreement with Imran's government. And we've signed the final agreement with Sharif's government, which was no different. There was no change on the principles that were captured in the framework agreement. And then we had that whole process endorsed by the Supreme Court. So those are the three sort of legs of government.
And you know, a lot of people—it is, it's an interesting political situation in Pakistan because, you know, there was a lot of speculation about what would happen at elections. And unlike many other emerging markets, everyone was encouraged to go and vote, and they did. So no one tried to boycott the elections. And the outcome was interesting in that it was, you know, sort of almost—it was almost perfectly balanced amongst the three big political entities, for want of a better word. So now, as you can imagine, there's lots of energy being put into trying to form a government. The key is that whichever coalition forms, and it has to be a coalition, whatever happens and whichever government arises from this process, any government that's formed will have a very strong opposition.
As far as Reko Diq goes, there's bipartisan support for that project, and we've never been partisan in anything we do. It's a bad strategy in emerging markets. So, you know, we're working, we're continuing as usual. I mean, some of the best progress that we've shown, and it's across the board, but has been with our local social programs and investment and working with the community. So right now, as it stands, you know, the not only is it the federal government, but also the provinces of voting, and there's expected new chief ministers, which is essentially the provincial head of government. Which is important for mining, because a lot of the legislation is within the province rather than at the center. So, yeah, right now, we'll continue as we do in most other countries.
Second question is around Nevada, and you can see in the final chart that there is a pickup in 2025. Is there a broader turnaround happening there Mark, or is that just Goldrush finally kicking in?
No, there's a. You know, the Nevada team is now really starting to make progress. And, you know, we've put a lot of effort in there. It was a big merger with two very distinct cultures. And then we had COVID, and then you had this big turnover, you know, that we saw right across the United States economy, where, and effectively, what people refer to as skill shortage. And we really had to invest in. And then you had the lithium miners or promoters and, you know, and we're the biggest miner in the U.S., so we're a supplier of people to any promotional effort. But we've brought that turnover down materially in Nevada. We've got a new management team. It's much more caring, because that's the way we are.
We might be tough on standards, but we're soft on people. And I'll just give you some examples. If you look at the roaster's performance in the last two quarters of last year, back to where we had them right in the beginning, and the Gold Quarry roaster, which we've had to spend a lot of time and money on, really starting to live up to better efficiencies. We've got the final leg in its expansion now in the middle of this year, and then we'll have that, like, 20% increase in throughput. And we've spent a lot of time on the SAG mills, the whole SAG infrastructure.
We now are getting that back to where we want it to be, and that is very core to our to Turquoise Ridge, which is one of the major high-grade deposits, long-life deposits within the complex. And actually, I was down there last week, Saturday, this last Saturday. And for me, it was really encouraging how we managing the rock mechanics and our the way we mining. And we're doing now in Turquoise Ridge, open stoping, backfill, and also cut and fill. But on a much larger scale than they used to do it, and we're doing it safely and very efficiently. So, you know, I'm very confident that you'll start seeing those costs come down because it's an 11-gram ore body. And so, you know, it's got a lot going for it.
If we can get the autoclaves working, and we've got one more big change to do in the flow sheet of the autoclaves in SAG. What we've done, Greg, is we've formed a team of autoclave experts. Barrick is the biggest operator of autoclaves in the world. What we've done is we've got them all around the world, and we've put a group of process engineers together to look at all our autoclave installations and see how we can really learn from each other and lift the game to best practice. We've really uncovered some bottlenecks in the SAG mill that. We've been depressurizing the autoclaves too frequently, largely around valves, the longevity of valves.
The reason is that we haven't got—we're missing a component of being able to normalize the pressure across the valve when we turn it off and on. And so that's a big step forward, which we just—it's not a large expense. We've just about finished the design because we've got many examples, and we'll put that in place. And for me, that's a key step forward. And we've done a lot, you know, in the Sage, and we've got a team now working on process optimization and automation, as far as process controls go.
We're really at the stage where the operators and the management are now up to speed, and the next step is you can use the automation, because putting in automation without a competent operating team is not an efficient way to get to increase throughputs. The same in the—we've got a completely new team in the roasters at Carlin, and again, we are now performing above our KPIs, which has been a long time since we've done that. So all around, I mean, your commentary is real, and I'm excited about improvements on that. What is dampening our costs at the moment is that we made a decision to bring in some contractors to get ahead of our development, because on the double refractory ore, which comes from our big high-grade deposits.
We're process constrained as far as the roasters or nearly processed, but not quite, because we've improved the efficiency. And so the flexibility in your mine, this is a big mine, it should have flexibility. It's a big mining complex. You know, when you're producing 3.3 million ounces a year, you shouldn't be worried about catching up 1,000 ounces or 2,000 ounces here and there. And so but what we found is that we were, through lack of flexibility underground, because we're moving the whole business underground, is that our development, and you know this better than anyone, you get behind on development, you constrain your mining flexibility, and then you've got problems. 'Cause you can't deal with a fall of ground or, you know, a sort of operational issue.
So we in all our underground mines, we've brought in contractors to just help the team get ahead, and it'll be a 12 - 18 month program. And that does impact the costs because it's an extra cost. And then we'll take it back from the contractors in the fullness of time. So all around, Nevada is in a better spot. And I you know I think you'll see and last year we had a bad start, but we increased our performance every quarter. We didn't quite catch up, but we did and that will continue in this year. You'll see the performance improve through the year, and you know and I believe that we are building. And as I said, last year, we largely completed the merger challenges. It's now about, you know, focusing on efficiencies and delivery.
Hi, Mark. Excuse me. Lawson Winder from Bank of America. Thank you very much for the presentation today. I love this chart that you have up of the five-year production and gold cost forecast, and in particular, the cash costs. Effectively, this chart is showing your all-in sustaining cost declining from the $1,300 range down to the $1,200 range. And my question would be, I mean, is Barrick's objective over the next five years to move from the $1,300 per ounce that you use today for reserves and for planning to $1,200 per ounce in five years? And then as a follow-up, I would ask, you know, what inflation assumptions are built in here for 2024 and then 2025-2028?
The all-in sustaining costs come down to $1,000, just to correct you. And that-
I wasn't using my ruler.
And so you can see the flat year-on-year. I'll let Graham comment on the way we manage our inputs on this model. But that's exactly right. And the point here is that, you know, there's what. And not to tell you how to do your work, but no one ever looks at grade. Some, I think some analysts do, but a lot of people don't. They just look at the cost. And this industry is high grading, and when you look at Barrick's grade, grade, it's not high grading at all. Our grades in the next five years are almost flat. And so we manage optimization of our ore bodies.
Sure, there are times when we sort of look a little different to the market, but that's why we put these, these charts up, and, and we're not different to the market. We have some cost drivers, and let me tell you what they are in there. The first one is PV, and PV is a low-cost operator. So even with its current challenges, its 2024 is gonna be, you know, one of our lowest cost mines, but it's gonna come down even further as we, as we steady out at above 800,000 ounces. Goldrush, we're now focused on development, which we haven't been able to do for the last three years.
And, and that comes with costs. So the Goldrush cost profile is higher in these next two years as we ramp up the and put the infrastructure in and get the ventilation up to standard and things like that, which is, you know, that's the big challenge there. And then Porgera sits at $1,900 an ounce in this model because it's a ramp up. And so, you know, that's not what it's long- it's also a low-cost producer. So those are the drivers. And Carlin has, you know, we had the crossroads challenge where we had a large chunk of the what we had modeled as high grade that was faulted out. So we need to work that through and get those costs down because the way that Carlin was structured, and it's a big ship, so it takes a bit of time to turn. But again, we're on it.
You'll see Carlin grades are sort of 4.3, 4.4, so high grade. It's got open pits embedded in that. So, you know, there's nothing here that... Well, let me rephrase it. We can explain these costs, and they're not systemic in our operating costs. They're driven by specific decisions and events. Do you wanna explain the assumptions?
Yeah, sure. So, the key thing here Lawson, is as always with costs, is energy. You know, we always say that around 20% of our costs is energy directly, but indirectly, when you look at energy in terms of the way it impacts our reagents and other consumables, in terms of the way it impacts the supply chain and knock-on costs on just our suppliers and their input costs, it's probably more like 50% when you look at the real impact of energy across the group. So that's always gonna be a key driver. We were using $85 Brent as our assumption for this year, so that's pretty close to spot. I think spot's at about $82 at the moment. And that's a little higher than what the average was for 2023.
But, you know, we're looking at where it is today. Long term, we bring that down to about $75 for our long-term planning beyond 2024. The other key area of input price pressure is on labor. So labor makes up around 35%-40% of our direct costs, and there we're seeing an inflationary pressure year-on-year of around 4%, so that has a small impact on costs. Other than that, most of the other input costs are, you know, relatively similar to 2023, and you know, we were able to bring down a lot of the costs in 2023 compared to 2022. There are some areas where it's still sticky, particularly regionally in North America, things like cement, lime, explosives, steel.
There's still a little bit of inflationary pressure in those areas, which we're working on to bring down. But, you know, we've made a lot of progress. So it's really those are the key drivers. Just in terms of your first question, which was really about, you know, are we planning to reduce our long-term planning price? The answer to that is no. The $1,300 is where we'll continue to plan. As we've said in the past, we always look at input costs, and that's what we use for determining our long-term planning prices, and those are certainly not going lower. So, $1,300 is where we'll be. It's just we'll make a lot more money, and we'll lock in that profitability.
Mark, thanks. This is Ralph Profiti from Eight Capital. You spent some time talking about Nevada Gold Mines. I wanted to address the reserve replacement, where you've done a lot of work on this sort of five-year plan. Do you think you're in a position to have enough data and outlook that year-over-year reserve replacement will be consistent at the similar grade, or is the profile gonna look a little bit more latent, where, you know, operating mines diminish and some of these more towards the later end of that guidance period, we see the pickup?
So we're now modeling it. You know, we had a budgeted 50% replacement in Nevada this year, or North America, and we beat that replacement just because we were more efficient with our drilling. But when we go into the next five years, it is still lumpy because Nevada, a lot of our reserves are underground, so we build a resource inventory, and then there's a conversion behind that. But we're now, as I pointed out, able to point to you a five-year program. Over those five years in Nevada, we'll replace all the gold we mine. So it's in... The inventory is a lot more reliable, you know. And then we move it through, you know, inferred, indicated, and measured.
And that model is a large, you know, like Leeville has been a process, a work in process. But and the key here is, the reason we can shift some of our capital to more greenfields targets is we're now in that systematic we've caught up with the drilling. Well, we are catching up, because this year is quite a big expense on drilling. And with the development getting ahead, we can cover the reserves and the grade control confidence, 'cause that's all a part of underground, you know, good underground mining practice. But we've been able to reallocate some of that budget to more greenfields targets, and we've got a lot. We have a number of greenfields targets.
Now, when you look at Fourmile and you look at the way we've managed that, that is exactly one mile away from Cortez, and it's a multimillion ounce. You know, there's 14 million ounces in Goldrush, and there's substantially more, and it's higher grade. Because we go into breccias from more flatter, sort of planar ore bodies, because we go into a big, brittle halo around an intrusive. So the rock is behaving differently, and it gives those really chunky grades, you know, breccia shape ore bodies. And the question is, how many more of those are there? And I'll give you an example. We shared with you a drill hole last quarter in the mega pit in Turquoise Ridge, the old Twin Creeks.
We drilled a hole down there. The mega pit is the only Tier One ore body in the Carlin area, the whole Carlin region, where no one's ever found the feeder. And we know the feeders are the ones that really deliver the value in the Carlin system. And so we drilled that hole, it was significant, you know, 70 meters at ore grade. And so we are slowly getting enough data to vector and to really test that concept. So we've got that. We've got the whole Little Boulder Basin, we've got the north and southern extensions now of the Turquoise Ridge underground mine.
We're back and looking at Getchell, because our confidence in being able to manage the rock mechanics. You know, we now have rock mechanics everywhere. When we got there, there weren't, were none. And so our underground controls, and being able to mine safely without, you know, really getting impacted by poor ground conditions, gives us much more confidence to go back into Getchell. And then we've got, there's an extension further north than the Leeville, what we call the Greater Leeville. The geologists have come up with, like, four different names. But, you know, it's, in my mind, it's the Greater Leeville area. And then north of that, we've got another new target that we've shared. It's on the map. And then, you know, trying to model the gold rush, Fourmile trend, 'cause it's another Carlin trend.
And look for duplications, structural duplications, is the big focus on our team now. So I'd said to the geology team. And again, when we got there, there were no, you know, exploration was like a its own silo, and there was no MRM. And today we've got an integrated team that really understands what it's doing, and I had challenged them to drill. I said, like, "15% of your budget needs to be drill holes where there's no other drill holes within three miles." And they said, "Look, we've got, like, 40% of that." We're already there, ahead of what I was pushing. So, you know, I think there's real opportunity, and then there's more opportunity outside the joint venture area as well in Nevada that we, we're chasing.
Hi, Mark, it's Anita from CIBC. Just a couple of quick questions. The first one, just on Kibali. I think you said you guys—Sorry, it was Loulo that had a pit wall failure. Is that cleaned up now, or is that—
Yeah.
So it-
Yeah
... shouldn't impact grades going into this year?
No, no, it's, I mean, it's impacting the profile because, you know, we've still putting the ramp down, but it's... You know, we knew it would slide; we just didn't expect it to go all the way to the bottom. I mean, we, you know, as you know, in open pit mining, we monitor pit walls all the time, and from time to time, they do fail, and it's best that you know about it so that no one gets injured. And we've got very focused controls on pit wall stability, so we see it coming.
Okay a nd then, secondly, I was gonna ask about Fourmile, and you went into that a little bit. But could you just give us an idea of how much of Fourmile is in the resource? And what would we expect to be included in the PFS, in terms of, like, the base-
So-
of what you'd be working with?
So let me just answer the first one differently, and that is, Fourmile is now just starting to come into our 10-year plan, because we've rolled it forward a year. So just for your information. And as you know, under the deal, we can put Fourmile to Newmont as our partner, if we get a feasibility study and it meets certain criteria. And Newmont needs to pay up or dilute. That's the agreement we have. I mean, you know, we have a good relationship with Newmont at the Nevada joint venture level and our view is that we need to continue to show prospectivity. And I think currently the reserves are, I can't recall, about 3 million ounces, eh?
Simon.
Simon, you wanna take Anita through that?
Yes.
Yeah. So, so currently we've got 2.7 million ounces in inferred, and we've got a small amount in indicated. So the resource base that we're expecting to define by the end of this year will support the initial pre-feasibility study. So that pre-feasibility study we see being the first of several incremental studies as we continue to expand the ore body. Because through the course of this year, as well as defining the resource base, we'll still be defining significant additional inventory, which we expect to outline the growth of Fourmile through the next 10 years.
Follow up on that. So 2.7 million ounces of inferred would be the base, and what grade's that at?
No, that's our current resources.
Yeah, what's the grade?
By the end of this year, you-
What's the grade?
We're 10 gram.
Yeah.
Okay. All right, that's good. Thank you. That's it for my questions.
Sorry, I think, I think I'm up. It's Jackie Przybylowski at BMO. Thanks very much, Mark. I just had another question about Fourmile, so I hope you don't mind. You mentioned in the MD&A that you're considering a service portal to decouple the project from Goldrush, and then you and then I think the wording you used is, "but to ultimately complement the Goldrush development." Can you talk a little bit about what that means? Would you consider keeping it outside of the joint venture, or is this still within the joint venture, just operating separately, but processed through the same mill and infrastructure? Is that sort of what you mean?
Well, I'll answer that first.
So, Graham's clearly scared of what I'm gonna say. So, there's a process in the that I just touched on to get it into the joint venture, and we've got to demonstrate viability. At the same time, there's always negotiable options as we do it. But the key is, when you look at Goldrush, it's not the optimal access, because we access it on the twin declines, and they come out on the hill, and then you've got to get the ore to the processing facility. So what we're looking at is there's two other accesses. The one that's the most attractive is the northern access, which is a 6-kilometer drive, but it brings out the ore in the valley, close to the processing facility. So that makes good sense on just logistics.
At the same time, if you drive a drive through that strike, you open up the entire area for infill drilling, and it'll be easy, easy to move it from 'Cause trying to bank these, all these ore bodies, from the surface is a very expensive exercise. And just to give you an idea, if you just take the section from Rose to Sofia, and we can access that through the twin drives from Goldrush, and the intention is to do that. Under our agreement, we can use Nevada joint venture infrastructure. So we can access that. That, if you drilled out that area, you'd save about $500 million. So that's how the difference in trying to drill close-faced holes from surface. So that, so where we're going with Simon is, what we want to do is show the viability and the pre-feasibility.
And then the question that we've got to decide is, do we take part of this or all of this or, you know, to feasibility and pass the test? Or do we sit down with Newmont and structure a more reasonable way of bringing this asset, which is absolutely critical for the long-term profile of Nevada Gold Mines in some form. But, you know, we've had very high-level conversations about the concept, but we're not- we haven't, we haven't, you know, engaged in any formal discussions. But the, the but from our point of view, it's very important for us to demonstrate to our shareholders the value of this world-class asset, and so we've allocated part of our global exploration budget to doing this work this year. It's a three-year program to get this done.
Just to be crystal clear, Jackie, the intention would always be that it would come into the joint venture. That's not what we're saying. We're just saying we could access it from a separate access.
No, I appreciate that. Thank you. And, one other question on a different topic. If you don't mind walking us through maybe the process of restarting Porgera. Just some modeling help I, I would expect as the year goes on, they'll be more and more ramped up. But if you could maybe give us some color in terms of like, what Q1 might look like, would be helpful. Thank you.
You know, this is Papua New Guinea, Jackie. So, we've got 60,000 ounces in our guidance attributable this year. I think that we've spent a bit of time with all of you on explaining to you that, you know, what we do start doing as soon as we start generating revenue is, even at these high costs, we start paying back our care and maintenance costs. So we sweep all the non-landowner equity that we don't own to start repaying. So the cash flows start moving fairly quickly. I'll give you the hurdles, and by the end of this quarter, we'll have a better sort of better granularity for you. But so we've commissioned the plant now, and we've run non-gold material through it. And, we're now starting to gear up to put gold-contained material into the processing plant.
It won't be our best, and we can do that and produce gold with certain, so oxide material, but we need the power supply to switch on the autoclaves. So that's the next step. And right now, we've just secured a helicopter which can work with our team to erect them. I think there are 3 or 4 power pylons that have been toppled, to put them back in place. And we are working with the community and the Hela Governor, which is a different province to where we operate, to make sure we secure the gas-fired power supply to the mine, because we need that to be able to run the mine properly. That's all built into this year's ramp up. So I think by the end of the quarter, we'll have a much better outlook for you on the granularity of where we're going.
Yeah, I'd just say it's very much a second half of the year-
Yeah
Profile, Jackie. We, you know, we'll produce some gold in the first half, but it's really about the, you know, the second half where we expect to produce the majority of that guidance that Mark spoke about.
And we I mean, we're well on track. We've done better than we expected on employing people and ramping up the employment. We've still got security issues that we're dealing with. As you—I mean, I don't know how close you follow Papua New Guinea, but they had those riots in Port Moresby the other day, and you know, the security capacity of the government is you know, under pressure. But we are working, and the one thing is everyone appreciates, I mean after all this, these couple of years, there's no doubt about the importance of Porgera to the economy of Papua New Guinea, because it is a very profitable business. So it, it does deliver real value to the economy.
Yes, Martin Pradier from Veritas Investment Research. Just a question here on Lumwana. We were expecting some cost reduction going forward. I know that cost has been increasing a lot this year. Can you give us more detail on that?
So, most definitely, you'll see short some reduction in costs for the year. In our guidance, you'll see it. The big focus at the moment is we're still pre-stripping what we call the 2042 plan, which is the plan before the super pit. But Martin, to your point, the mining costs are critical. The mining efficiencies and mining costs are the real driver on this expansion. So you will see those costs come down as we mobilize those machines and make sure that we start mining. Because the big thing first was to establish the pit so that we can mine efficiently. Simon, you want to add to that?
Yeah, I would just say you're, you're right. From 2025, there's a big step down-
Yeah
... in costs, as we get those efficiencies.
Simon, do you want to comment?
Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, those efficiencies also come with scale as we expand. So with the expansion, we're currently mining at an annual run rate of about 130 million tons. We'll be incrementally, over the course of about 4-5 years, stepping up to 250 million tons per annum. So with that step up, obviously with scales of economy, we'll also be shifting to a much larger fleet in line with the new fleet that we've been gradually bringing into Lumwana, and just started to come online at the end of last year.
There's your answer. So you're right.
So 2025, should I be thinking that you'll be like, 10% or 20% lower in cost, or is that too much to ask?
I'm not sure. Simon-
No, the-
Do you have that end number in your head?
That's not unreasonable.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's in the range. So...
Okay. Right, do you want to move to... Operator, can we move to the people online, please?
Certainly. To join the question queue, you may press Star, then One on your telephone keypad. You will hear a tone acknowledging your request. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press Star, then Two. The first question comes from Daniel Major with UBS. Please go ahead.
Hi, Mark, Graham. Can you hear me okay?
Yeah, I hear you perfectly. Thanks, Daniel.
Very well. Thanks. Yeah, a couple of questions. Yeah, the first one, a couple are on CapEx. First one, kind of reasonably simple one. How much of the guidance within your guidance, sorry, is included for early development spend on Lumwana and Reko Diq?
Do you want to answer that?
So, for Reko Diq, the capital guidance for 2024 is $140 million on for our share. Is that right, please? $280 million for the project. And for Lumwana, our capital spend is $100 million.
Okay, thanks. Very clear. And then, just second one, on when I look at the slide, on the five-year forecast, you see, you know, CapEx coming out to about $3.5 billion. As we head towards the finalization of the budgets for both, kind of major projects. How, how are you feeling in terms of the range of CapEx previously, given obviously seeing continued inflation, since, yeah, since those estimates were given? Are these still the right kind of ballpark, or should we expect, you know, the CapEx to edge up from the, the previous ranges you gave for both Reko Diq and, Lumwana?
So, I can answer that. So based on the pre-feas, the numbers are there and thereabouts. But remember, we're moving towards feasibility study, proper, you know, design, and so we'll expect to, to tidy up on those, capital estimates towards the end of the year. But right now, we've got no reason to change the numbers.
Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think, Dan, the key is there's a lot of trade-off studies going on at the moment. So you know, as you would imagine, that involves potentially putting in more CapEx, but then getting OpEx benefits for it. And that's what the team's busy with. So when they finish that work, we'll have the updated numbers, and with that will come the operating costs as well. But yeah, but we're still in the same ballpark.
Dan, just to build on that, it's worth noting that, you know, Lumwana is gonna be one step ahead of Reko Diq, because it's an expansion. But the same Lycopodium partners are working with both our teams. So we're really looking for you know, to leverage our purchasing power, the way we design things, so you have duplication in designs. There's a lot of benefits in running. It's like running a mega mine development. So we expect to see some efficiencies or benefits on that.
Great, thanks. Just one more, if I could. Just on your reserve assumptions, Graham, you mentioned you're sticking with $1,300 on the gold side. $3 is pretty conservative on the copper front. And I know as a management team over the years, you've been conservative on these assumptions for good reasons. Is that a number that is gonna stay? And if you were to move that higher, would that change in any way your design of your copper expansions?
So, you know I think, Dan, this is a strategy question, really. And what you'll find is that the numbers, the $1,300 particularly if you look at the gold, our gold deposits. We've got a few outliers, as you've seen in the MD&A, particularly Tongon, where you've got full capital repayment, and your sustaining capital is as low as it is in Tongon. We'll adjust, because we don't wanna leave any gold in the ground towards the end of the mine. But generally, if you look at Barrick's ore bodies, if you change the $1,300 all you do is add waste. You add very low grade because the ore body shapes are still within the $1,300 envelope, if you follow what I'm saying. And similarly for copper.
So, you know, we of course will look at marginal opportunities at higher copper prices, as we've always done, you know. Even when we used $1,000 like you'll all remember, or maybe you won't, the big pit at Yalea. We took, you know, the gold price went up to $1,800 in 2011, and we took a whole lot of gold. It was high grade, but low recoveries, and we took it because we could push it back in 6 months, and we could access the gold. And once we had paid for the strip, it was really good business. So we do have. We will manage the flexibility inherent in a specific ore body.
But right now, the $1,300 on the gold deposits really defines the geological boundary still, and three dollars on the copper projects. As we grow our understanding in Reko Diq, you know, we'll be reconsidering that, but right now, we don't have to do that. And even, you know, I've spent a lot of time with Simon on the Yamana stuff because, you know, we again, that three dollars is, it's, it's tight, but we get the whole economic ore body, the geology into that $3 envelope. Simon, do you want to add to that?
No, I think you've covered it well, Thanks.
Yeah, the only other thing I would point to, Dan, is that we did lift the resource price for our copper-
Yeah
... resources this year to $4 to reflect, you know, I guess the point that you're making, which is that the risk on copper seems to be on the upside, and we wanted to make sure that we weren't sterilizing assets and opportunities. So certainly, we take on board your point that, you know, copper prices could go a lot higher.
Just, you know, the fundamental reason for that is it's the same as we use a $1,700 resource, is you wanna keep the infrastructure away from the ore body. So that's our resource, you know, and certainly, our $4 is not a, you know, ambitious number. But it, again, when you look at the payability of even the porphyries at Reko Diq, we just wanna make sure that we don't put infrastructure. And a good example is go to Escondida and Zaldivar, and you find infrastructure all over the pit that shouldn't have been there. And it's expensive to move, like railway lines and things like that.
Very clear. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Bob Brackett with Bernstein Research. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon. You mentioned adjectives assigned to M&A that included dilutionary and delusionary. What would the opposite of those adjectives look like to you?
How do you mean? Explain that.
Yeah. So what, what M&A would be neither dilutive to Barrick or delusional to you as a team that you would contemplate?
Well, it's...
I can throw out an option if you need a further idea.
So no, no, I got it. So let's go back in history. So we acquired BHP's assets in Mali to start Randgold. That was a very accretive acquisition. We then acquired Moto in a, in a hostile takeover, that was equally accretive.
Which was Kibali.
Which, yeah, which is Kibali. And then, the Randgold-Barrick merger was definitely a value-creating exercise, and it's a long-term platform. And most other companies that did M&A around that time and paid premium for it, I think, you know, it's not possible to show a long-term new foundation for those transactions. And then we did the Acacia takeout, which again, has been a spectacular investment. And, and of course, although we didn't issue paper for the Nevada joint venture, certainly, the sum of the whole is substantially more valuable than the sum of the individual parts. So those are the only transactions I've been involved in, and they all worked. And I speak on behalf of myself and the team at Barrick.
So that those are value-added transactions, and they've all come with, they're all at market, and all had organic growth embedded in the asset as well. So, you know, and we-- That's what we would like to do. We-- That's what-- Those are the opportunities that we look for.
Very clear. I take the point on organic growth with whatever you might acquire as being critical.
Hmm.
Thanks.
Pleasure.
Once again, if you have a question, please press Star, then One. The next question comes from Tanya Jakusconek with Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Great. Thank you for taking my questions. Good afternoon, everyone.
Hello, Tanya.
I just wanted to ask... Hi. I just wanted to ask Graham, in the capital for Porgera, can you just give me an idea of what we need to spend this year to get this mine up and running?
Do you want me to answer it, Graham?
Tanya, it's approximately $70 million, our share.
Okay. Okay, thank you for that. And then, Mark, I have two questions for you on Nevada Gold Mines. I just wanted to ask, the Cortez, where you are going to be seeing lower production in 2024 over 2023 due to the Crossroad resource model change in reducing oxide mill. Can you just explain to me what's exactly happening at Crossroads?
So at Crossroads, we had. You know, what we've been doing since 2019 is spinning our wheels to bank the deposits. And I'll just give you, you know. On the Newmont side, most of the models, the business plans were 12 or 18 months old. On Barrick's side, it was, you know, almost current, because Barrick was focused on high grading, and Newmont was focused on survival. So when we put the two together, as we pointed out at the time, there was a lot of chat. There wasn't a mineral resource management department even, is we had to catch up. We have caught up a lot.
We're still catching up a bit because with the pressure on accessing people, we've brought in the contracts because we just weren't getting on top of the development. We had pushed it ahead, but not enough. Crossroads, as we drilled it out, there was a high grade. When we were there, the analysts on the last visit, we were right in the high grade of the ore body. But what we hadn't seen is a fault that sliced part of that high grade off at depth. So when we went down another bench, when we had drilled the holes, we ended up modeling a fault which cut off the ore body, which reduced the volume of high-grade material.
If you recall, there was always a bit of a spike in our production in Cortez, in our forecast. So that's the reason. We've now drilled the ore body out this. What we're doing now is pushing back the Crossroads pit, and it'll come back in to the schedule next year, but not at the grade that we were expecting. But on top of that, the team has also been able to add other oxide material from some of the other pits and the expansions to those pits, which will help us feed, but not at the grade that we had originally planned. That's the story for the oxide drop in this year.
Okay, so did we lose ounces at Crossroads?
Yes.
Is that what it is, with the fault?
Yes. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, thank you for that.
Sure.
And then maybe just my last one-
So, Tanya, just to complete that, we lost ounces and the delay in the ROD. You know, because once we got the record of decision, we really had to refocus Goldrush to ramp up. So, you know, we have to get the ventilation shafts in place. We've got to, there's a whole lot of infrastructure that we need to put in place to be able to get that long-term ramp up in the mine. So those are, both those impacted on 2024.
Okay. And maybe I could just ask on just Nevada Gold Mines in general, there's a lot of work that you're doing there, and I just am trying to understand the labor. You mentioned that the turnover, you know, has decreased. Can you just give me an idea of what the turnover rate is right now in Nevada Gold Mines? And I know when we were there that you were looking for a lot of positions to be filled. Like, where are we on that, and where's the training program going for these underground miners?
So we-
I'm just trying to get an understanding of labor.
We're below 15% turnover now, which is substantial. What's it? 14. So, so we are below 14%, and it's interesting, our training mines, people that go through the training mines, so far, we haven't got a lot of data, but they stay. They generally stay, because now we've got properly skilled people, and there's no stress in their lives. They know what to do and you know, and... The other thing too is you know, the first phase of putting these two mines together, and it's important, this conversation about people, because you can go and smash two different cultures together and force it for a while. But if you're building a business, and our mining industry doesn't have that.
If you look across the mining industry, and you look at the executive groups, there's no executive group in the mining industry that is entrenched as much as the Barrick team. And because we've put an enormous amount of time and effort into our skill base. And so that's what we well, first one under Greg Walker is we need to get everyone together and iron out the discrepancies and disparities and all that sort of stuff, and bring the union in, because there's a unionized workforce embedded in the Carlin open cost side of the business. And then in 2023, you would remember, end of 2022, when Greg left, it was specifically designed to change the culture another step, and that is we moved the ownership from Elko back to the operations.
Because when you, when you're transitioning, you've got to have more control. And we changed all the general managers in the end of 2022, and we shifted the control back reduced and we're still reducing that Elko footprint. And we brought in some new senior management to lead the team, and that management was not- it didn't come from Barrick. It- we brought it from outside. And so the results that you see, and I've got no doubt you're gonna continue to see it, is a product of that, you know, human capital engineering, effectively. To get it, as I say in the MD&A and in my presentation, really to align it with the Barrick DNA. And I've, you know, I've spent a lot of personal time there, leading this process because it's people.
I'm more comfortable today than I've ever been that we're making real progress with the people, and that's always- if you want sustainable change, you've got to get people aligned. I mean, it's like this, you know, when you look at this head office, inverted commas, this corporate office, 48 people, if you take out the big wigs, it's probably 38. And it does double the amount of work than three times the people did before. They're young, very energetic, super efficient in what they do, and they're fully plugged into our organization. Right, you know, in fact, we have rotations now with these young folk here into our operations. And they, you know, our analysts, we-- 'cause we've got financial analysts.
This is financial as in analyzing our efficiencies, embedded here under Bruce. I mean it's, you know, it's a very efficient. We're using our data platforms so that we're fully connected across the organization around the world, and we can consolidate. When I ask questions now, we can consolidate the financials, even income statements, you know, across the group, distill them, or look at benchmarking and, you know, measure the way the one company will run, particularly like Lemoine and now with our drive to get these costs down on the big plant. So, you know, it's really a motivating thing to get people aligned with the business rather than just coming in to do a task.
Okay. I'm just trying to benchmark, Mark, how is 14%, is that an average for Nevada itself? That seems a bit high. So I'm just trying to benchmark the turnover.
No, that's. I mean, in America, if you're an American, that's low, very low.
And then-
We're gonna get it lower. You know, the point is, when you tip this, when you create the trust between the workforce and the leadership, you tip it, and then you become a winning team. When you become a winning team, everyone gets bonuses. You know we, you know, it becomes it, it feeds on itself. And otherwise, you will always have it. And Tanya, the first time in my entire career, 40 years, the first time I found people scared of being fired was in Nevada. You know, there was fear, because it was a style of management, which was very non-confrontational, but quite tough and didn't all go well for inclusivity. And Barrick is a caring organization. We care about our people and our team, and they a nd you do that, you start getting the benefits, and we're seeing that.
All right, thank you.
Okay.
There are no more questions.
Well, thank you very much, everyone. Thanks for coming and those particularly who made the effort to come out here. I think we've got some snacks and... So join us next door if you wish. You're welcome. And, for those on the call, sorry about that, but, bon appétit, wherever you are. Thank you.
This concludes today's call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.