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Earnings Call: Q1 2025

May 8, 2025

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. My name is Abby, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Altus Group's First Quarter 2025 Financial Results Conference Call and Webcast. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question during that time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one a second time. Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Camilla Bartosiewicz, Chief Communications Officer. Please go ahead.

Camilla Bartosiewicz
Chief Communications Officer, Altus Group

Thank you Abby. Hi, everyone, we're sorry for being a couple of minutes behind we understand there's still a few people trying to get in, so we just wanted to make a little more time. Welcome to the Conference Call and Webcast discussing Altus Group's Q1 results for the period ended March 31, 2025. Our press release, MD&A financial statements, and the slides that accompany our prepared remarks, they're all available on our website and, as required, have been filed to SEDAR+ after market close this afternoon. I'm joined today by our CEO, Jim Hannon, our CFO, Pawan Chhabra, as well as Rich Sarkis, the President of Software and Data.

Some of our remarks on this call and in our disclosure may contain forward-looking information that is based on certain assumptions and therefore subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. Please refer to our forward-looking information disclaimer in today's materials. Please be reminded that Altus Group uses certain non-GAAP financial masures, ratios, total segments measures, capital management measures, and supplementary and other financial measures as defined in National Instrument 52-112. We believe that these measures may assist investors in assessing our investment in our shares as they provide additional insight into our performance. Readers are cautioned that they are not defined performance measures and do not have any standardized meaning under IFRS and may differ from similar computations as reported by other entities and accord`ingly may not be comparable to financial measures as reported by those entities.

These measures should not be considered in isolation or as substitutes for financial measures prepared in accordance with IFRS. An explanation of these measures is detailed in todays IR materials. I would also like to point out that unless otherwise specified, all % and basis point growth rates we refer to on todays call will be on a constant currency basis over the same period in 2024. I'll hand over to you, Pawan.

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Thanks, Camilla. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Altus had a solid start to the year delivering recurring revenue growth and a margin expansion, and improvements in cash generation, and we hit some of the highlights. Analytics total and recurring revenue were up. Consolidated revenue was modestly down, impacted by the Appraisals and Development Advisory segment. Profit from continuing operations improved by 47%. Adjusted EBITDA was up 29.7%, driving a 280 basis point margin improvement. Both cash provided by operating activities and free cash flow were up meaningfully over last year, and the comparative period last year included a contribution from property tax. Turning to the Analytics business segment, total revenue growth was led by ARGUS Intelligence. As discussed last quarter, we have been winding down some non-recurring revenue lines of business.

We're really pleased with the consistent improvement in adjusted EBITDA, which reflects higher quality of revenue, operating efficiencies, and our ongoing cost optimization efforts. Recurring revenue is a key metric for our performance. ARGUS and VMS revenue streams have very low churn, with retention rates above 100%. Q1 recurring revenue was up 2.1%. ARGUS software growth was strong. VMS growth was modest, as expected. As you recall, there's seasonality with VMS. Historically, Q4 represents our largest quarter for VMS revenue. Our margins continue to expand, up 200 basis points in the quarter, above guidance. Drivers of our margin expansion include revenue growth, our portfolio optimization efforts, efficiencies from our global service center, benefits from restructuring activities, and our overall expense growth moderation. We're steadily driving towards our FY 2026 target of approximately 35%. Turning to analytics new bookings, this metric reflects new and incremental business.

We're pleased with the 34.3% improvement in recurring new bookings, which included strong software bookings and a $5 million of the $15 million three-year subscription agreement with Ryan Tax. Excluding this deal, recurring new bookings growth was 3.1%. Turning briefly to our cloud adoption rate, having reached 90% of users contracted on the cloud, we are now retiring this metric from our external reporting. Finally, at Appraisals and Development Advisory, as CRE transactions remain muted, revenue came in lighter than guidance. However, our restructuring activities are paying off, driving a $1.3 million improvement in adjusted EBITDA in Q1 in line with guidance. Transitioning to the balance sheet, following the sale of the property tax business in January, our cash position at the end of the quarter increased to $491.9 million. We had $158.9 million in bank debt at the end of the quarter, representing a 1.44x funded debt to EBITDA ratio.

During the quarter, we deployed $76.3 million towards a share buyback, reducing our outstanding shares to $44.4 million. We also reduced our debt by $127 million in the quarter. Restructuring costs were $6.2 million and dividend payments were $6.5 million. Cash from operations continues to be strong, driven by improvements in working capital. We expect our cash conversion to improve throughout the year as our restructuring efforts take hold. With that, I'll turn it over to Rich Sarkis, President of Software and Data, to discuss Benchmark Manager.

Rich Sarkis
President of Software and Data, Altus Group

Thanks, Pawan. I'm happy to be here, and I'm proud to announce that we launched Benchmark Manager in Q1. Benchmark Manager is a significant addition to ARGUS Intelligence and builds on our previously announced Portfolio Manager capabilities, which was launched last September. Industry benchmarking has traditionally relied on backward-looking, static, and generic averages to track performance. Now, with Benchmark Manager, powered by what we believe to be the most comprehensive valuation data set, users can immediately see how their assets and portfolios stack up against the market. Crucially, this enables CRE professionals to track their portfolio's performance across markets, asset classes, and at different points in the cycle. This provides powerful insight into what is driving movements in value right down to the individual asset level, ultimately enabling users to drive portfolio performance and mitigate risk. We have been very encouraged by client interest and the quick pipeline build.

With that, over to you, Jim.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

All right. Thanks, Rich. Hello, everybody. Very happy to be back in Toronto. I think it was two years ago I sat in the room and said, "Go Leafs." Some of our guys from out West were trying to convince me last night to say, "Go Oilers." I guess Toronto's more of my Canadian home, so I'm going to have to stick with Go Leafs. Very happy everyone's here. All right, guys. Our strong performance in Q1 demonstrates the continued execution of our growth initiatives and our commitment to delivering value to stakeholders. As you heard from Pawan today, the team's delivered strong financial results. Resilient recurring revenue performance and sustained margin expansion has been a consistent theme. Our operational improvements and ongoing portfolio simplification are translating to higher quality earnings compared to a year ago. This drove strong improvements in cash flows.

In Q1, we returned capital to shareholders by repurchasing $76 million of our shares. Operationally, we delivered significant new bookings growth. I'm very pleased with the adoption of Argus Intelligence and its add-on capabilities. We have currently over 1,300 clients contracted on Argus Intelligence and signed dozens of new asset-based pricing deals in the quarter. We hit our 90% cloud conversion target. This was partially driven by a large service provider agreement with an asset-based pricing structure, which includes Argus Intelligence and FourBerry Solutions. This represents the future state of our commercial contracts, allowing unlimited users and driving expanded adoption within our clients. Releasing Benchmark Manager at the end of the quarter was a key strategic and operational milestone. With this capability, Altus demonstrates its unique position to help clients drive performance. Benchmark Manager will also make our internal teams significantly more productive.

During the quarter, we integrated Forbury with the Argus Calc engine for modeling multifamily assets in the U.S. This connects Forbury data to our platform while delivering enhanced functionality for our Forbury users. This also expands our addressable market, particularly in the U.S., with our initial focus on the multifamily sector. As a reminder, Forbury brings simplicity of use through its Excel interface. Looking ahead to the rest of the year, we remain committed to executing against our guidance, which anticipates a steady improvement in market conditions, representing a stronger second half. At the same time, we recognize that macroeconomic volatility, particularly surrounding tariffs, could introduce uncertainty. That's why we're staying closely connected with our clients, monitoring leading indicators and adjusting our operations as needed to navigate the evolving landscape.

We remain bullish on the long-term prospects for Altus Group, driven by strong secular trends in commercial real estate, compelling new product innovations, a refined pricing model driving client adoption, an exceptionally strong balance sheet, and a dedicated team committed to delivering value. Before I open up the line for questions, I'm pleased to share that we're planning to host an Investor Day on September 9th in New York. We think that will be the right forum and time to discuss new metrics. Stay tuned for more details to be shared in due course, and we hope you can join us. Okay, let's open the questions, the lineup for questions, Abby.

Operator

Thank you. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one a second time. If you are called upon to ask your question and are listening via speakerphone on your device, please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. Again, it is star one if you would like to ask a question. Our first question comes from the line of Stephen MacLeod with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Stephen MacLeod
Managing Director, BMO Capital Markets

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Just wanted to ask about the Benchmark Manager, which it's interesting to hear about that from Rich. Just curious if you can share a little bit about initial feedback from clients and kind of how you see that product evolving over the next 12 months or next few years.

Rich Sarkis
President of Software and Data, Altus Group

Great question. Thanks, w e're really excited with the client feedback. We've talked to hundreds of customers over the last several months and quarters as we developed this and figured out what really they were looking for that they did not have. The response has been really solid. Now of course we'll continue to iterate on that in a very rapid fashion, but the response has been very positive.

Stephen MacLeod
Managing Director, BMO Capital Markets

Okay, that's great. Just to clarify, I mean, that's a live product that you're currently selling right now?

Rich Sarkis
President of Software and Data, Altus Group

Yeah that's live. We launched it in Q1, and we'll look to evolve it over the next few years.

Stephen MacLeod
Managing Director, BMO Capital Markets

Yeah great. Okay, thank you. I just wanted to ask about the, you cited in your recurring revenues just a new contract with Ryan. I just wanted to confirm, I think Pawan, did you say that's a multi-year contract? Do you expect that to continue to have similar contribution as you think about the rest of the year or over the next few years?

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Yeah, it's a good question, Stephen. As you recall, we had said that the deal was a three-year contract for their tax solutions that would contribute about $5 million per year. Obviously, we're looking forward to continuing that relationship with Ryan Tax at the conclusion of this first iteration of the contract.

Stephen MacLeod
Managing Director, BMO Capital Markets

Right. Okay. That's great. Lastly for me, just on the Q2 guidance, can you talk about just some of the revenue components around the analytics expectation for 1-3% total revenue growth? Kind of what the components are into that?

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Yeah, look, we're continuing to keep a very close eye to the macros. With that said, we're pretty comfortable with regards to our guidance for Q2. We're going to continue to see positive momentum as we saw in Q1 on ARGUS Intelligence and the software elements of the revenue component. We are seeing modest growth in VMS. As you know a lot of VMS is tied to the timing around asset deployments. In the current macro environment, while we're still seeing growth, the growth is not as robust as software. As you think about the guidance, we're thinking about Q2 as really a continuation of the momentum that we built in Q1. Continue to see good momentum on the software side and modest growth in VMS.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Hey Steve look, let me add to that on the components. If you recall from last quarter, we talked about the fact that we sold some non-core businesses in analytics, which brings down the overall growth rate. That is why we have particularly emphasized the higher quality revenue that we have now. We are also very deliberately not pursuing non-core data clients, and we are not heavily pursuing non-recurring service agreements. There is a lot of focus going on here on the high-margin recurring core client activities.

Stephen MacLeod
Managing Director, BMO Capital Markets

Great. That's good incremental color, Jim. Thank you. Okay, that's great. Thanks so much, guys.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Thanks, Steve.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Richard Tse with National Bank Financial. Your line is open.

Richard Tse
Managing Director and Technology Analyst, National Bank Financial

Yes, thank you. Just kind of wanted to get an update in terms of your conversations with clients today in terms of when they're thinking market to recover. Is it still largely around rates? I guess now tariffs are. Is there something sort of more specific to the CRE market?

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Now, you nailed it Richard. The clients are. We had a webinar today. What we're seeing from clients is we're seeing actually improvements in underlying NOI and in valuations, including in office, which is an interesting turn in several quarters in a row. That is a point of optimism amongst our client base. Of course, being able to predict their cost of capital is a little trickier, so we remain cautious on that. I said we're staying very close to the clients on the leading indicators for us here, and we will manage the bottom line very closely as we always do. On the recovery, everyone in the world is watching. It can change day to day. With what we know right now about some of our clients' activities and with the new products coming out, we feel good about our guidance range.

We have flexibility around that guidance to maintain our margins. We are still banking on a back half of the year that we kind of work through the volatility that we are seeing right now and that things stabilize by the time we enter the second half.

Richard Tse
Managing Director and Technology Analyst, National Bank Financial

Okay, great. I guess sort of in a related question, have any of your clients or have you observed any kind of permanent structural changes in the market? If so, how those changes would inform your decisions to invest in certain areas of product or R&D?

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Yeah, I see a positive structural change, which is there's more private debt available. The liquidity in the market is good, and that has us doubling down on our focus on making sure we are tailoring, particularly our VMS services to the particular needs of the debt side of the market. We continue to grow clients and funds there, and we'll continue to build out our expertise in debt.

Richard Tse
Managing Director and Technology Analyst, National Bank Financial

Okay. Just the last one for me. I think you've talked about acquisitions in the past, and you clearly have quite a bit of capacity now from a balance sheet perspective to do that. Can you just sort of remind us the areas that you're most focused on? Is the market for valuations today looking more compelling given that sort of soft backdrop, or have they moved up down stayed the same? Just curious to see what the update on that would be. Thanks.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Yep. There were as the whole market saw, there were a lot of prop tech darlings a few years ago that you saw us do our key strategic acquisitions, and you're now seeing those come through in our new product. Reonomy is the heart of the Altus ID, which allows us to tie all of the models to the benchmarking. The StratoDem acquisition gives us the attribution analysis that provides that extra insight to our clients. Once you saw us make a couple and Finance Active put us on the debt side of things. Forbury gives us that more of a global footprint and ease of use that expands our market. Outside of those key strategic acquisitions, you saw us really back off other than our attempt to go for revs, which would have been a great acquisition.

Other than that, you saw us back off because our perspective was valuations were extremely lofty. They did not meet our IRR requirements and our hurdle rates for acquisitions. We maintain a very specific set of guidelines of how and when we will pull the trigger on acquisitions and the financial hurdles and the strategic fit that they have to have. That said valuations have come down significantly, and we are getting a look at interesting things. We are in no hurry. We are going to take our time. We are going to be super smart about this. I do not feel like that cash is burning a hole in my pocket. Right now, we are very happy to be returning capital to shareholders through a very strong share buyback program.

Richard Tse
Managing Director and Technology Analyst, National Bank Financial

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Paul Treiber with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Paul Treiber
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Oh, thanks very much, and good afternoon. On your outlook for the year, there is back-end a little growth, and you did mention macro and new products. How quickly, typically, do you see new products ramp? And which is the more important driver, do you think, of an improvement in growth for the back half of the year? Is it really those availability of new products, serpent up demand, or are you anticipating that a macro improvement would underpin a lot of that growth?

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Paul, it's a great question. Let me break that down into a couple of pieces. When we think about our growth algorithm, I think the core of your question is how much is predicated on just organic market growth. We do expect some. The Q2 guide that we just gave is exactly in line with the model when we gave the Q1 guidance in the full year. We are still on that model. Every month, we do a bottoms-up field outlook by product line. We know where the, and we do price times volume on that outlook. We know where the assumptions could be a bit aggressive from the field. Pawan has modeled all of that out with sensitivities that give us a comfort level around our range. That said, if something like wild came out macroeconomically, our guidance range is not handling or contemplating something crazy.

Steady state and with the improvement and I think people getting their head around the current environment, we think we have a reasonable set of volume assumptions. Now w e also as we said, we have asset-based pricing deals, which give us an opportunity to lift our wallet share with clients because clients see the value in it that they can, they'll get a price bump, but their volume bump of number of users could be their whole business. From an RPU perspective for us, my team has heard me say I would be very happy to see our RPU come down because our absolute revenues are going up from the pricing. We want our clients, we want to be adopting as many products as possible, and we're making that as easy as we can for them to do it. We have new logos that we're going after.

Forbury, again, expands our addressable market into the non-heavy Argus user, but who needs valuation and wants those models tied to a platform. We have the new product take-up and adoption. I am very bullish on Benchmark Manager. The entire architecture that we've been talking about in building the platform was so that we could deliver that product at scale with platform economics, and we've done it. Not only will it help our clients, but our VMS business is an excellent, and our appraisal business is an excellent proxy for our clients. Our VMS business does a tremendous amount of analysis for the biggest investors in the world. We know what their requirements are. We help them manage their data. The platform and Benchmark Manager in particular was built to accelerate the time to analysis and decisions. We are bullish on that.

It'll really have a much bigger impact in 2026 as clients are deploying more and more of ARGUS Intelligence, which Benchmark Manager has to sit on top of. The pricing, we're delivering the value with the asset base because their volumes go up. We do think volumes will come up in the second half. We'll add new logos from new spaces like multifamily. The new product adoption will be good this year. It'll really accelerate in 2026.

Paul Treiber
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Thanks for those details. In terms of the growth of asset-based pricing, you mentioned dozens of deals. How should we expect that to grow from here? I mean, do you think you're just scratching the surface and it'll ramp significantly? Is that a factor that you'll continue to give going forward so we can track the adoption over time?

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Yep. On asset-based pricing, we actually, for the very very small end of the low end of the market, like one or two properties or assets, it's really not worth our clients time or our time to try to convert them, right? Or if they have one or two ARGUS licenses, we're just going to keep as frictionless commerce with them as we can and let them renew on a license basis. We didn't actually expect broad adoption from the service providers to have a marquee service provider move to asset-based pricing. We think that there's going to be a lot of fast followers from that. It will also help drive Forbury in the markets where Forbury is the best solution and ARGUS in the markets where ARGUS is the best solution.

Without our clients having to go back to their IT groups every time and go, "We'd like the budget to add one more user." It is back to as frictionless as possible. We think the industry is going to follow fast on this.

Paul Treiber
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay. That's great to hear. I'll pass on.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Thanks, Paul.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Scott Fletcher with CIBC. Your line is open.

Scott Fletcher
Director and Equity Research Analyst, CIBC

Hi, good evening. I'll ask one on capital returns, the buyback in particular. Obviously, it was really very active in the quarter. Could you just give us an idea of how you're expecting that to play out over the course of the year and, I mean, whether you have a clear plan on timing and if that can change, I guess, whether other capital return or other capital allocation opportunities present themselves?

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Yeah Scott, it's a great question. As we said in some of the prepared remarks we're extremely pleased with the traction that we made in Q1 against our NCIB on the share buyback, so the $76 million that we accomplished in Q1. If you recall, we had originally positioned this. We said we wanted to do $250 million of share buyback over the course of three years with a heavier rating, $150 million heavier rating in the first year. Obviously, with the start that we have in Q1 we're well on that path, and we're going to look to continue to pursue that. We have a very good view in regards to valuations, and we're going to continue to take a significantly strong position in continuing to pursue that.

From a year-to-date perspective, I can share with you that $76 million is now at $107 million as of, I believe, close yesterday. That traction continues. We have said we believe share buyback is an excellent way to return value back to shareholders. We are committed to that. As Jim mentioned, we are going to opportunistically look at other potential vehicles, potential M&A, but the cash is not burning in our pockets. We believe that this share buyback is a great way to return that value back to shareholders. That is the plan, Scott. Hopefully, that answers your question.

Scott Fletcher
Director and Equity Research Analyst, CIBC

Yeah, definitely. Thank you. I'll just ask one on the margins. Very strong in the quarter, far above the guidance range. Is there anything specific to call out in terms of outperforming what you thought you would do? Should we be expecting sort of maybe near the high end of the guidance range for the full year given the performance in the first quarter?

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Yeah. Look, the narrative around the margin expansion is not dissimilar from how we have talked about it in the past. Again, we continue to have a lot of, we continue to be able to moderate margin. We have a lot of control and are really focusing on what we can control. Again, when you think about it, there is both the revenue and a disciplined cost management approach to it. It is on the revenue side. The cloud convergence continues to provide some degree of a tailwind, and that is going to continue as we move towards the full transition to the cloud. We are doing price-led growth in our valuation advisory upon renewals, and that is going to continue to be tailwinds from a revenue perspective.

The price-to-value increases on our software subscriptions, plus the lift that we're going to get from the new product launches that Rich just talked about, is going to help us on the revenue side. On the cost side of the equation, Scott, if you remember, we did a pretty large restructuring last year. We're going to get the dividends of that restructuring flowing through for the full year this year. We are committed to continuing to grow the GSE in India. It plays a very crucial role in optimizing workflows, improving our delivery speeds, and really supporting our operational scalability. When you combine both the revenue and the cost management efforts, we're pretty committed to being able to continue to scale and grow and feel comfortable that we've got several levers to continue to drive the margin expansion.

Scott Fletcher
Director and Equity Research Analyst, CIBC

Okay, great. Good progress so far.

Pawan Chhabra
CFO, Altus Group

Thank you.

Operator

As a reminder, it is Star One if you would like to join the queue. Our next question comes from the line of Kevin Krishnaratne with Scotiabank. Your line is open.

Kevin Krishnaratne
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Scotiabank

Hey there. Good evening. I had a question on Benchmark Manager and maybe some of the AI products that you've got out there now. Can you maybe talk about adoption? Where do you see adoption rate sort of going? More bigger picture, a lot of your customers may already have sort of in-house data science teams. How do you see your product in that context? Is it going to help support those teams? Is it going to be taking budget? Is there a budget for you if more of their AI team strategy is leveraging products? I'm just trying to understand sort of the AI strategy and how you see it really fitting into your customers strategies themselves going forward.

Rich Sarkis
President of Software and Data, Altus Group

Yeah Kevin, good question. Thanks for that. Let me just hit on a couple of the core value propositions of Benchmark Manager, and then I'll talk a little bit about the AI component as well. One of the more fundamental value propositions of Benchmark Manager is leveraging that unique identifier, the Altus ID, to bring all of the data together. That's something that even in-house, a lot of our customers tell us is something that they need help with. That is a core value prop that I did want to talk about. Of course, it's the quality and the granularity of the benchmark and the depth and breadth of the benchmark and the ability to go down and drill down and understand why certain assets are under or overperforming versus a hyper-relevant set of comp properties is something that comes through very clearly with Benchmark Manager.

Of course, given that it's powered by the aggregated, anonymized ARGUS and VMS data that within a specific client, they obviously don't have the breadth of all of that, really helps to differentiate that as well. In terms of AI, building on that and moving that forward to recommendation engines that not only show under or overperformance, but then help to suggest action to ultimately drive performance is something that we are heading towards as well.

Kevin Krishnaratne
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Scotiabank

Got it. No, thanks for that. Super helpful. Maybe just the last one for me, just on the recurring new bookings. I think you mentioned excluding the Ryan Tax contract, 3% growth. I think that's quite a slowdown from what you saw in Q4. I might be reading the MD&A incorrectly. Correct me if I'm wrong there, but it just looks like the recurring new bookings was a little bit lighter excluding that contract. I'm just wondering if you can explain that trend there. I know it's really hard to kind of the way that you disclose the bookings, it's not really the greatest comparison. You just talked about the trends that you're seeing there because I think you did mention software growth as being sort of strong in the quarter.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Yeah Kevin, we did say that software growth was strong. It's one of those I wish we disclosed the pieces of it, but as you know, we're going to move away from bookings, which is internally, we're much more focused on ARR and NRR at this point. As I said, we'll start introducing those metrics at Investor Day so that we can explain exactly how we do all of them. The ARGUS software growth was really impressive for us in the quarter. I was shocked given the market environment. On the flip side, the VMS growth was not there, which is completely predictable in this interest rate market because the VMS clients are kind of on a wait-and-hold on transactions. Overall, we're seeing complete transactions across the market, like transaction fall sizes, we're down over 7% year over year.

Where that manifests itself is in the growth of VMS. To put up the 3% growth, excluding the data contracts in this market with VMS flat, is a really strong performance for our software business.

Kevin Krishnaratne
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Scotiabank

Okay. Yeah, I hear you. That all makes sense, Jim. Thanks. Appreciate it. Pass the line. Thank you.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

As a reminder, it is Star One if you would like to ask a question. With no further questions at this time, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Jim Hannon for closing remarks.

Jim Hannon
CEO, Altus Group

All right. My closing remarks are thank you as always for joining us. We are always available for the one-on-ones and follow-ups. We look forward to talking about the quarter and what we see the rest of the year. Hopefully, most of you can make the investor day in September. Thank you, and we'll talk to you soon.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call, and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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