Thank you for standing by. This is the conference operator. Good morning and welcome to SNC-Lavalin's fourth quarter 2022 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded. After the presentation, there'll be an opportunity to ask questions. To join the question queue, you may press Star, then 1 on your telephone keypad. Should you need assistance during the conference call, you may signal an operator by pressing Star, then 0. I would now like to turn the conference over to Denis Jasmin, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Adrian. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the call. Our Q4 earnings announcement was released this morning, and we have posted a corresponding slide presentation on the Investors section of our website. The recording of today's call and its transcript will also be available on our website within 24 hours. With me today are Ian Edwards, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Jeff Bell, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to ask everyone to limit themselves to 1 or 2 questions to ensure that all analysts have an opportunity to participate. They are welcome to return to the queue for any follow-up questions. I would like to draw your attention to Slide 2. Comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking information.
This information, by its nature, is subject to risks and uncertainty, as such, actual results may differ materially from the views expressed today. For further information on these risks and uncertainties, please consult the company's relevant filings on SEDAR. These documents are also available on our website. During the call, we may refer to certain non-IFRS measures and ratios. These measures and ratios are defined, calculated, and reconciled with comparable IFRS measures in our MD&A, which can be found on SEDAR and our website. Management believes that these non-IFRS measures provide additional insight into the company's financial results, certain investors may use this information to evaluate the company's performance from period to period. Now I'll pass the call over to Ian Edwards. Ian?
Thank you, Denis. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 2022 was a good year for SNC-Lavalin as we achieved many of the goals we laid out at the beginning of the year. The tireless effort of our 34,000 employees worldwide is what drives the company every day. Our core purpose is engineering a better future for the planet and its people, and we're only able to do so through the hard work and dedication of our employees. I can't thank them enough. On Slide 3, we outline our accomplishments against our pivoting to growth strategy that we introduced during our Investor Day in 2021. As a reminder, our goal was to wind down our LSTK Projects and pivot into growing our SNCL Services businesses in our chosen geographies to drive long-term value creation.
2022 was a year of strong progress against this strategy. We are now largely physically complete on our two Ontario LSTK projects. We remain on schedule to hand these over to clients in 2023. REM continues to progress well. We expect that this will result in positive free cash flow in the second half of the year. We also remain focused in pursuing all monies owed due to the increased project cost. We continued to grow our engineering services business, expanding organically our revenue by 9% year-on-year. We achieved record backlog for the third consecutive quarter as demand for our services remains very strong in our chosen markets. We continue to be recognized as leaders in the nuclear sector.
Governments and public entities around the globe are making strides towards a greener power grid and to build new nuclear. SNC-Lavalin is well positioned to win its fair share of these opportunities. We have been intentional in our pivot into specific core geographies and our chosen end markets. Success this past year further emphasizes the strength of our new strategy and our growth opportunities are unfolding as planned. We continue to believe the strategy put in place represents the best opportunity for SNC-Lavalin, and we expect to continue to deliver on our stated goals. The macroeconomic environment is challenging and is projected to be so for the foreseeable future. Our business model, which is focused on geographies and end markets that we have intentionally chosen, remains resilient, driven by public sector's focus on sustainable infrastructure and long-term energy solutions.
As we continue to deliver on our strategy, we are undertaking a strategic review to optimize our portfolio of businesses to ensure that capital and human resources are prioritized to the areas of the business with the highest value creation potential. On Slide 4, we highlight our achievements this past year versus our stated targets. Continued demand for our SNCL Services, coupled with our focus on operational initiatives across the businesses, led us to hit the top end of our target range for organic revenue growth and in the middle of our segment adjusted EBIT to segment revenue ratio range. In 2022, developing our people and attracting new talent was a key focus area. As a result, we successfully grew our headcount by approximately 3,000 people, and we increased our focus on training and development.
This resulted in an engagement score up 6% from our previous Vox survey done in 2019. While I'm truly proud of this achievement, we will continue to focus on employee engagement and the development as we grow SNC-Lavalin. We also continue to grow the sustainability of our operations, and are proud to say that our sustainable revenues now represent almost half of our total revenues. In addition, we are partnering and supporting indigenous socioeconomic development in Canada, and extended our credit facilities through a sustainability linked framework. We remain on track to deliver our 2030 net zero roadmap and our 2025 ED&I targets. Turning to Slide 5, I want to focus on a few of the highlights from the fourth quarter. We ended the year on a strong footing as SNCL Services had an organic revenue growth of 7%.
If we exclude the positive CAD 93 million outcome from an arbitration in the engineering services in Q4 2021. Segment adjusted EBIT was CAD 156 million and represented a 9% margin. Total backlog for SNCL Services rose to CAD 11.8 billion, which represented a 5% increase year-over-year, with a further strong growth in engineering services. During Q4, segment adjusted EBIT for our LSTK Projects was negative CAD 150 million following what management expects is the last material cost we forecast on these projects. Today, we're introducing the 2023 outlook, which Jeff will provide in more detail shortly. We anticipate SNCL Services organic revenue and profitability to remain strong and in similar ranges as our latest 2022 guidance.
We have largely physically completed our 2 Ontario LSTK Projects and are on track to hand these over to clients in 2023. We expect the operating cash flow to be positive in the second half of the year. Turning to Slide 6. Our engineering services business continues to drive robust growth for SNC-Lavalin and delivered strong results again during the fourth quarter. The business remains resilient and is accelerating in our core geographies, as evidenced by the 2% year-over-year organic revenue growth during the quarter, or 11% excluding the CAD 93 million favorable outcome from the arbitration. Our year-over-year improvement highlights our ability to capture growth and provides a clear roadmap for the growth prospects for a sustainable infrastructure demand in 2023 and beyond.
Segment adjusted EBIT and EBITDA margins were 9.6% and 16% respectively during the quarter at the high end of our target ranges, with particularly strong margin performance in the U.K. and the U.S. We achieved a record backlog during the fourth quarter, marking our third consecutive quarter of backlog growth. Backlog now stands at approximately $4.7 billion, which represents a 24% increase versus our backlog as of December 31, 2021. The strong backlog increase in the U.S. was achieved through several government contract wins, notably through delivering management services for Hurricane Ian and highway design services. For further support against future natural disasters, we were recently awarded a design and engineering contract to replace the Shepard Broad Causeway Bridge in South Florida, which will increase safety and enhance hurricane evacuation capabilities.
These wins, in addition to others, elevated our U.S. backlog to another record level and 30% higher than where we stood as of December 31, 2021. Our outlook for continued growth in the U.S. through our engineering services business remains bright, fueled by infrastructure governmental programs such as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the Inflation Reduction Act. In the U.K., our diverse project portfolio as well as our presence in all seven of our primary end markets, highlight the resiliency of our demand generators in uncertain economic environments. Our backlog is at an all-time high. This past November, the U.K. Autumn Statement signaled a commitment to $600 billion in infrastructure spend, providing good visibility for near-term revenues.
Over the past few years, we have focused on improving our position in these growing regions and end markets through digital investments and increased hiring and use of our global technology center in India and training all our business development and engineering teams. Results this year and our outlook for the future highlight these investments are proving fruitful and for the long term. Looking out into 2023, our pipeline remains robust and we are well-positioned to continue growing. I'd now like to move to Slide 7 and the results of our nuclear business. During the Q4, nuclear revenues and segment adjusted EBIT were similar to prior year, with a continued uptick in segment adjusted EBIT margin across all geographies. Our backlog stood at CAD 937 million as at December 31st, and we saw bookings growth in all of our geographies during 2021.
This level represents double-digit growth versus 2021. As we continue to see growth across all of our core geographies, we are also witnessing accelerating activity in each of our core nuclear end markets. We remain bullish on the nuclear sector as several countries around the world continue to make commitments to net zero. Government entities see nuclear as a low carbon way to produce electricity, creating new build opportunities to deliver baseload power into an evolving and greener power grid. We are very excited about our recent award with GE Hitachi to build the Darlington Nuclear Generating Station Small Modular Reactor. This SMR is the first to be built in North America and could become a game changer for the nuclear industry. This is a great example of the substantial opportunity for our full lifecycle services business in our core geographies.
Additionally, a recent decision by the U.K. government to fund the Sizewell C new build is another example of our capabilities being in demand for new build opportunities needed to deliver a greener baseload power. We remain active in reactor support and life extension projects as indicated by our work in Europe and Canada. In the U.S., there are a number of opportunities with the National Nuclear Security Administration and potential projects that would utilize our learnings from the work we have begun on the Ontario Power Generation SMR. The high quality prospects across our three nuclear sub-sectors show the potential growth opportunities happening now and for years to come. Our track record and technology expertise has put us in an enviable position, and we continue to make strides to be the partner of choice.
Moving to Slide 8 and our O&M segment, which generated CAD 132 million in revenue during the fourth quarter and a 12% organic increase year-over-year. Segment adjusted EBIT margin last quarter was 7.8%, above our long-term target of 5%-7%. Revenue this past quarter was primarily driven by transit projects and our LSTK Projects moved towards operation. We are mobilizing for the O&M start-up at REM, South Shore, Eglinton and Trillium. We continue to see opportunity for growth in the U.K. through building and road infrastructure improvements. We are also utilizing our strategic partnerships with key industry players and leveraging our capital group to maximize bidding opportunities for future growth in core markets.
On Slide 9, our Linxon business revenue was impacted by low bookings in prior periods in Europe and Asia Pacific, which was only partially offset by significant revenue growth in the Middle East. As a result, organic revenue decreased 17% compared to the fourth quarter of 2021. We also needed to take an additional charge on certain European projects that were completed or nearing completion to reflect cost reforecast, resulting in a CAD 14 million EBIT loss in the quarter and a CAD 10 million EBIT loss for the full year. We have already taken action to improve profitability of the business, and we're also undertaking a further strategic review. Turning to Slide 10 and capital.
Fourth quarter revenues decreased to CAD 49 million and segment EBIT fell to CAD 45 million, mainly due to decreased contribution from InPower BC following its disposal in the first quarter of 2022, and lower contribution from a power asset due to a planned maintenance shutdown. We continue to see opportunities to release value from the capital portfolio, and in the fourth quarter, we exited our investment in a fund of The Carlyle Group. We will continue to assess our portfolio of investments to determine long-term strategic fit and to look to release value where we see opportunities to realize additional value. Our capital concessions remain consistent sources of income for the business. Most notably, our stake in the Highway 407 ETR yielded dividends against this past quarter in the amount of CAD 37 million.
Looking out, we remain very active on the business development front and progressing on our new strategy and alignment with the O&M segment. Moving to Slide 11 and an update on the LSTK projects. We achieved a major milestone during the fourth quarter as our two Ontario projects, Eglinton and Trillium, are now largely physically complete. A significant step towards our goal of being a professional services and project management company. Our last project, REM, continues to progress well and is more than 75% complete as at December 31st. Segment adjusted EBIT continued to be impacted by the macro factors that we've been managing over the past several quarters, including supply chain disruption, elevated inflation and material rates, labor shortages.
This led to a full year impact of CAD 270 million of the CAD 300 million risk envelope we outlined at this time last year to complete these projects. As Ian indicated earlier, we see this as the last material cost reforecast for the LSTK projects. As was previously outlined, we believe a significant portion of these additional costs related to the pandemic, supply chain disruption, inflation, and labor strike action is recoverable and ongoing discussions are in progress to recover these losses. With that, I'll now send it over to Jeff to discuss the financial highlights.
Thank you, Ian, and good morning, everyone. Turning to Slide 13. Total revenues for the quarter were CAD 1.9 billion, in line with last year. Total segment adjusted EBIT for the quarter was CAD 51 million, which was comprised of CAD 156 million for SNCL Services, CAD 45 million for capital, and negative CAD 150 million for LSTK Projects. SNCL Services adjusted EBIT margin was 9%, in line with our target range of 8%-10%. The negative EBIT for LSTK Projects resulted from recognizing CAD 140 million in the quarter of the CAD 300 million risk envelope and CAD 10 million primarily from the segment overhead costs needed to manage the completion of the LSTK Projects and pursue the material cost reimbursement claims that management believes we are entitled to under the contracts.
Corporate SG&A expenses from PS&PM for the quarter was CAD 24 million, and restructuring and transformation costs were CAD 54 million, mainly due to higher than forecasted non-cash charges incurred to rightsize the office real estate footprint to align with new working practices. Net financial expenses for the quarter were CAD 47 million, higher than last year due to the increase in interest rates experienced during the year and the higher level of gross debt. The IFRS net loss from continuing operations this quarter was CAD 54 million compared to CAD 15 million in Q4 2021, and was composed of a net loss from PS&PM of CAD 91 million and a net income from capital of CAD 36 million. The Q4 2022 adjusted net loss from PS&PM was CAD 33 million or CAD 0.19 per diluted share as a result of the losses in LSTK projects.
On Slide 14, you can see the selected financial metrics for the full year. Total revenues for the year increased by 2% to CAD 7.5 billion compared to 2021. SNCL Services revenue totaled CAD 6.6 billion, 4.9% higher than 2021 or 6.8% on an organic revenue growth basis at the top end of our most recent outlook. Excluding the CAD 93 million positive impact of a successful arbitration outcome in engineering services in 2021, the underlying revenue growth was even higher. Total segment adjusted EBIT for the year was CAD 413 million, which was comprised of CAD 581 million for SNCL Services, CAD 93 million for capital and negative CAD 261 million for LSTK Projects.
Corporate SG&A expenses from PS&PM were CAD 99 million, in line with our outlook of approximately CAD 100 million, and we expect a similar level in 2023 as cost efficiency will be largely offset by inflationary pressures. Restructuring and transformation costs for the year totaled CAD 83 million, higher than our original 2022 outlook due to the same reasons I explained for the Q4 variance. We expect these costs to decrease and be around CAD 30 million for the full year, 2023, primarily driven by our ERP system implementation and further functional cost transformation. Net financial expenses for the year were CAD 116 million. Due to the higher debt level and increased interest rates, we expect the interest expense to be higher this year with a quarterly run rate in 2023 similar to that of Q4, 2022.
IFRS net income from continuing operations was CAD 10 million for the year, and the adjusted net income from PS&PM was CAD 113 million, or CAD 0.64 per diluted share. Backlog ended the year at CAD 12.6 billion, a similar level with last year, with the roughly half billion dollar increase in SNCL Services backlog being offset by a decrease in the LSTK Projects backlog as we continue to execute our exit strategy. SNCL Services backlog increased to CAD 11.8 billion at the end of the year, which included a 24% increase in the engineering services segment backlog. This segment was awarded CAD 5.6 billion of work in the year, representing a 1.19 book-to-bill ratio.
It is also noteworthy to mention that the nuclear backlogs had a very solid fourth quarter with a book-to-bill ratio of 1.4, ending the year at $937 million. We now turn to Slide 15. At the end of December 2022, the company's net limited recourse and recourse debt was $1.3 billion, and the net limited recourse and recourse debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 2.9 times. This ratio is above the company's end of 2024 target range of 1.5 to 2 times, balance sheet strength and financial resilience remain a core financial priority, and we remain confident that we will be meeting the target at that time.
Note that under our credit agreement, the net debt to EBITDA ratio is calculated differently, and at the end of 2022 was approximately 2.5 times. Due to our continuing efforts on cash collection, our day sales outstanding for engineering services remained strong and stood at 57 days at the end of the quarter. If we now move on to Slide 16 in free cash flow. Net cash generated from operating activities was strong in the quarter and totaled CAD 176 million, driven by SNCL Services EBITDA delivery and improved working capital management, including the reduced DSO level I just mentioned. As a result, the full year net cash usage from operating activities was CAD 245 million, better than our latest outlook.
For the full year, SNCL Services had another strong year, generating cash flows of CAD 552 million, while capital generated CAD 28 million. After cash taxes, interest, and corporate items, you can see that we generated CAD 180 million of operating cash flow for the full year. SNCL Projects had an operating cash flow usage of CAD 425 million due to the cash outflows needed for the progression of the remaining LSTK projects. As the 2 Ontario projects have reached the major milestone of being largely physically complete, we expect that the LSTK projects cash outflows will reduce in the second half of 2023 as the supply chain is paid out and testing and commissioning activities wrap up.
We expect that operating cash flows should be negative in the first half of the year, while they should be positive in the second half of the year. Note that we continue to actively pursue claims associated with the increased costs we've experienced on the LSTK Projects. It is difficult to forecast exactly when these claims will be resolved, when they do, the related inflow of cash will be incrementally positive to the company's cash position. The expectation that the operating cash flow profile of the company will improve later this year and the potential for settlements on LSTK claims, capital allocation priorities are aligned with our 2021 Investor Day framework. We remain committed to ultimately achieving investment-grade financial metrics over time, but also see the ability to deploy free cash flow for the benefit of our strategy and our shareholders.
Therefore, as you would have seen earlier today, we have filed and announced an NCIB share buyback program, which allows the company to repurchase up to 1.5 million shares over the course of the next 12 months. I'd like now to turn to my final Slide 17, and summarize our 2023 outlook. Given our robust backlog and strong pipeline of opportunities in SNCL Services, we are expecting our organic revenue growth to be between 5%-7% in 2023 compared to 2022, slightly higher than our 2022-2024 annual financial target. SNCL Services should also continue to deliver strong segment adjusted EBIT and segment adjusted EBITDA to net revenue margins in the range of 8%-10% and 14%-16% respectively.
As mentioned, we expect net cash from operating activities to be positive in the second half of the year. With that, I'll now hand the presentation back to Ian.
Thanks, Jeff. Our core business is executing well. We continue to do what we said we would do, and we remain laser-focused on executing our pivoting to growth strategy. We are delivering strong financial performance with notable backlog expansion in engineering services and have a strong pipeline of new opportunities in nuclear. Recent results further demonstrate the resiliency of our go-forward business and the ability to grow in the current macro environment. We are strongly positioned with a leading presence across our core markets of Canada, the U.S., and the U.K. We continue to see several opportunities for long-term value creation for SNC-Lavalin across these core geographies in our end markets. Infrastructure investments by governments and the resurgence of the nuclear market around the globe show continued signs of growth. As I previously noted, we are undertaking a strategic review to optimize our portfolio of businesses, including Linxon.
We will be diligent in our approach, and we will provide an update when applicable on the development of our review. We achieved a major milestone for our company with our two Ontario LSTK projects now largely physically complete. REM continues to progress well, and we're also continuing our discussions with our customers to recoup the total cash owed for the work we have completed. I say this every quarter, but it really is an exciting time to be part of SNC-Lavalin. Thank you. We will now open the call for questions.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To join the question queue, you may press star, then 1 on your telephone keypad. You will hear a tone acknowledging your request. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then 2. To join the question queue, please press star then 1 now. Our first question comes from Yuri Lynk of Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Yes, good morning.
Ian, on LSTK, can you put a little more meat on the bone in terms of the milestone? I'm asking this question in the context of, you know, looking over the last couple of quarters on Eglinton, for example. You know, you've been 90%, 95% complete with, you know, CAD 100 some odd million in backlog for 3 or 4 quarters now, so. Suffered, you know, write-downs along the way. What's changed such that we're gonna see that backlog actually go to zero and this thing finally be put to bed?
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good question. I actually see the way forward really clearly. I'll try and explain why we expect not to have any more material risks going forward. When I say the physical work is largely complete, what that means to us is that the risk element of the job, the construction work, where we've seen these issues unfold in the post-pandemic world as far as, you know, cost overruns in inflation in labor and materials, supply chain disruption in trying to get materials over from overseas, the strikes that we've had, and all of those productivity issues that we've had through the pandemic and post-pandemic, I see that as done. That was all attributed to the construction element of these projects.
What we did in this last reforecast is assess obviously the impact of all of that in Q4, but also assess the small remaining part of the construction work. As we're at the end, that's pretty easy to predict and reforecast to the end point. Now, as you rightly say, these projects are not 100% complete. The remaining work on these projects I see as professional services work. That work includes the testing and commissioning. It includes putting all the documentation together and handing that documentation over to the client. It includes getting the safety permits for the operation of the railways. You know, it includes all the regulatory approvals and getting occupation permits for the, for the stations.
We have to agree with the client, hand the asset over, train over all their people, the drivers, because we don't drive these trains, and get the system bedded down into an operation and maintenance. All that work is not construction work, that's professional services work, and you'll see these assets going into operation in the second half of this year. For that reason, we feel we're in a very different situation than we've been in the past on these 2 projects.
All we should see going forward for this year is the overhead losses about CAD 40 million-CAD 45 million negative EBIT. That's what you're saying?
I'm trying to, you know, the overhead is to support everything I've just said, but it's also to support the recovery of our losses and the negotiations and the rigorous kind of pursuit of getting our money back from our claims. That kind of run rate that you'll see is CAD 10 million-ish every quarter is to enable us to make sure we close out the projects, both from an operational perspective but also from a commercial perspective.
Okay. Thank you for that. The second question just on engineering services. You know, good results outside of Linxon, but just the bigger picture. I mean, almost all of your peers in engineering services have increased their EBITDA margins over the last 2, 3, 4, 5 years with plans for continued improvement in 2023. You seem to be a bit of an outlier in that respect. Can you just talk about the reason for that and how we should think about the ability to improve margins over time?
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we certainly have significant parts of our services, engineering services business that operate at the same level of margins and operate at the same level of cash conversion, et cetera, et cetera. There are parts of the business which don't. Part of the strategic review is looking at that and making sure that we have a very achievable plan to get those parts of the business to the same or exceed our peer groups or, take another decision on them and take a different route. We're really, really focused and committed into getting the whole of the engineering services business up to the same or better metrics that you'll see through our peer group.
Thanks, guys.
Our next question comes from Jacob Bout of CIBC. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning. This is Rahul on for Jacob.
Hey, hey, Rahul.
I just had a question on the strategic review, and would be helpful if you could shed some more color on this. You mentioned specifically that Linxon is part of the review. Should we read that as, you know, you're considering a potential sale of this business or exiting certain regions? I'm just trying to understand the strategic rationale.
Yeah. Sure. Sure. I mean, the strategic review is really about portfolio optimization. To the comment I made just a moment ago, you know, clearly we want to be performing in all of our businesses at the highest performance that we see in the industry. I mean, that's our goal and that's what is at the heart of the review in its entirety. Our markets are really strong. If you look at the industry as a whole, you know, the markets are almost outstripping supply. It's really important we see that where we operate and who we operate with as far as clients and governments, that we're positioned in the best possible place using our capital and our human resource to optimize value creation.
I mean, that's really in summary. Now, on the specifics, we will. Yes, Linxon is part of the review. Clearly, we are disappointed in the Linxon performance. The first thing we need to do with the Linxon business is get it back to profitability, which we believe we can. The second is to review all options. I mean, you know, nothing's off the table, with respect to Linxon specifically. You know, and I repeat, you know, it's, the whole strategic review is about maximizing profitability, cash flows and growth.
Thank you. Maybe just going back to the LSTK, maybe if you can just update us on how you currently stand in terms of that previously provided maximum risk envelope of CAD 300 million. Is the remaining risk, in your view, contained within that CAD 300 million envelope?
The remaining risk absolutely is contained within that envelope. At the end of 2022, we were at CAD 217 million of the CAD 300 million. What I would reiterate is what I said in the previous question and also in the presentation. We don't expect any further material risks going forward other than the overhead run rate that we've articulated.
Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.
Our next question comes from Devin Dodge of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Good morning.
Morning.
Maybe a question for Jeff here, just on the cash flow guidance in 2023, look negative in first half, positive in the second half. Are you able to put some numbers or goalposts around what that could mean for the full year?
Yeah. Happy to, Devin. Let me make a couple of comments to that. I mean, I think as you heard us say, we expect it to be negative in the first half of the year. We've got to pay out the supply chain on, you know, construction costs. You know, there is a delay in that versus where we are from a P&L perspective. Also there's the cost around testing and commissioning and the professional services element Ian talked about. I would expect that to largely look in the first half of 2023, pretty similarly to what we saw in the first half of 2022, in terms of the LSTK cash flow usage, you know, which was roughly CAD 250 million.
Then, as we said, as in the second half of the year, we're turning those, you know, we're wrapping those up, we're turning those over to customers. The natural, you know, cash flow generation ability of the go-forward business will obviously, you know, continue to come through, without the drag of LSTK. I think the other thing I'd say is that, you know, you've heard Ian talk about, you know, we're putting a lot of effort into trying to resolve these claims with customers, you know, that possibly gives us, you know, additional upside in the year from a cash flow perspective. We're not gonna provide any, you know, kind of specific number or guidance, but that's very much how we see the shape of cash flow over 2023.
Okay. No, that's good color. Okay. I was gonna ask about the nuclear question on the nuclear business. I think there's a couple of good-sized projects with the DOE in the U.S. that are set to expire in 2023. Do you think SNC is in a good position to be awarded the replacement contracts for those opportunities?
Well, one never knows. Clearly, we are always rebidding these DOE contracts in the U.S. They often come up for renewal and we often rebid them, and they're done in consortium, with other partners. There is a large one up for rebid right now, that we feel we have a great team, a great set of partners and a great value proposition. You can never really predict the outcome of these things till the award is done. They often come up for renewal, and there are several DOE contracts across the country and the different nuclear sites. You know, as you lose one, you win another.
You know, it generally levels out, and we've had a fairly consistent waste cleanup business across the U.S. in our Atkins Nuclear Secured business for some time. Be sure as soon as we win, we'll be announcing it.
Okay, thanks. I'll turn it over.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Chris Murray of ATB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks, folks. Good morning.
Morning.
Ian, just maybe turning back to the U.S. engineering business. Some of your peers have talked about the fact with some of the new funding coming through. You know, they're looking for organic growth in the, in the low double-digit type number. I appreciate, you know, you guys have laid out organic growth number kind of in the 5% to 7% range. But when I think about the portfolio, and this is maybe kind of near term and very specific, and not a longer-term goal, but is there any reason to believe that you guys shouldn't be able to benefit from some of these new funding sources, particularly in the U.S. or the U.K.?
Yeah. Yeah. No, no, that's a good question. We've clearly done a lot of analysis on this as our land and expand strategy that we talked about in the Investor Day. Following through on that land and expand strategy. Particularly the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the Inflation Reduction Act. We're actually seeing funds flowing through the States now, particularly from the IIJA. We see this, I mean, these are very, very significant sums of money that are committed over a decade. We see a lot of it flowing through the transport side.
We're seeing some of it now flow through the energy transition side. We're also seeing quite a bit of it flow into what I would call like water and environmental programs, not just water quality, but also flood defense and flood remediation, drainage, et cetera, from a resilience perspective. You might have seen, we've actually won a few jobs in our core states from a flood mapping and a flood control perspective, which were good wins in Q4. Where we're at is. I've said it before and it still stays the same. In Texas, Florida, Nevada, Colorado, Georgia, North Carolina, we operate at tier one. Our issue is that that's only a handful of states and our peers, you know, are operating in all states.
We've got to move the business from where it is today to a future place where we're equivalent to our peers. We have landed and expanded in the Northeast states, New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Illinois. We have landed in Washington State, and we've landed in California. That was the work that we were doing last year. We're winning work, and we're seeing growth from that. You know, I think that our plan and our future is obviously because of our size, I think develops a very significant opportunity to get higher growth rates than you would normally see from an organic perspective. It's pretty, you know, we're pretty pleased with where this is going right now.
Okay, that's helpful. Then one other question on LSTK, and maybe let's just assume that everything on the two Ontario projects works out, and by mid-year, we're kind of where you expect you're gonna be. How do we think about the rest of the runoff? I guess it's really only the REM project at this point. Should we be thinking that there'll be any contribution on cash flows, or should we kind of be thinking that like the back half of 2023 and into 2024, as you run off the rest of this project, it'll keep digging a bit of a hole that you're gonna have to overcome, or should it really get back to neutral?
Well, maybe we'll both answer this. I mean, I'll, I'll kick off by saying, the REM project is not been one of our challenging projects. I mean, it's always progressed well. We're happy with the performance. Yes, it does give a contribution, and it's really been about the physical construction work that has given us the challenge in exiting the LSTK work on the two Ontario projects. That's kind of a, the overview. I don't know, Jeff, if you wanna talk specifically on cash flows again or...
No, I would just add, I think, and I don't necessarily wanna get into 2024 guidance at this point, but, you know, I think the, you know, the overhead costs that we have this year that we've talked about, you know, those will clearly reduce, you know, at towards the end of the year, you know, as those 2 Ontario projects go away to, you know, I would expect a, you know, a largely immaterial amount. As Ian has already said, the REM project, you know, generates a positive contribution. You know, I think that probably gives you the sense of where we think that's headed post 2023.
Okay, that's fair enough. Thanks, folks.
Yeah, thank you.
Our next question comes from Benoit Poirier of Desjardins. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, gentlemen.
Thanks.
If we come back on the strategic review, could you maybe provide some color on what it doesn't include? Do you see an opportunity to maybe monetize some assets that you have in your capital portfolio, such as the Highway 407?
Yeah. Yeah, thanks. It really, it's kind of looking at everything. I mean, you'll see from a... I won't repeat myself about the portfolio optimization, but the goal here is to maximize profitability, cash flows and growth. That's the goal, create the most value we can with the capabilities that we have, the strong markets that we see ahead of us, and that's the heart of the review. Capital is absolutely part of the review. You'll have seen that in 22, we recycled the John Hart asset. You'll have seen we recycled the Carlyle investment fund that we had. Capital is part of the asset. I mean, specifically on the 407, this has been a very valuable asset for the company.
It's obviously clearly, you know, a really good asset. It's been a very important part of the overall portfolio of the company, particularly as we have had challenges with LSTK, and challenges with cash flows from executing and exiting the LSTK part of the business. As we move to normalize free cash flows in the LSTK Projects business and positive free cash flows, perhaps the importance of the 407 becomes less. When we reach that time, I don't think we're at that time now, when we reach that time, we'll definitely be reviewing the long-term kind of position that we feel on the 407 . I wouldn't say it's in the review immediately, there will be a time where it will be in the review.
Okay. Just in terms of capital deployment, Jeff, could you maybe talk about how the NCIB compare with other opportunities you might have given your leverage ratio right now and also the higher interest rate environment?
Happy to, Benoit. First of all, we think the NCIB fits absolutely within the capital allocation framework and priorities that we laid out at our Investor Day there in September 2021. Just as a reminder, it was about, you know, balance sheet strength and improving the balance sheet to financial grade metrics. Also, you know, the potential of either investing to further accelerate our growth strategy or return, you know, funds to shareholders. Our view was we could do more than one of those things at, you know, at the same time.
You know, our view as we move the business, you know, to its go-forward state, which is a, you know, a positive cash generative business here in the second half of the year and beyond, our view is we're very much on track, you know, to deliver investment grade financial metrics, you know, over the timeframe that we had envisioned. You know, and also, you know, gives us the opportunity, we think to, you know, deploy some additional capital. The NCIB really ensures that we have, you know, the ability to access all of those capital allocation priorities that we, that we laid out.
You know, clearly at current levels of the share price, it's, you know, we see a lot of value in, you know, in our shares and our company going forward, and we think that gives us good optionality going forward.
I'd probably just build on that. The optionality is important not only for the strategic review and any recycled capital that might come out of that, it's also important in case we achieve success on recovering our losses in a short timeframe from our LSTK projects. I mean, we are pursuing the recovery of those losses very vigorously. If we can get a negotiated outcome, but all of those will be positive cash inflows.
Okay. Maybe just a quick one, any color about the timing to recover those costs?
Well, that's the issue, isn't it? I mean, you know, in any negotiation there's two parties and the parties have got to get to an agreed position. We are in very detailed, and collaborative discussions. I can't predict the outcome. I mean, I genuinely can't. I mean, it could happen in the short term, it could take longer. At the worst case scenario, you know, it could take some litigation. I would hope not, because we feel we've done a great job on these projects, and we feel we need to recover the loss.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Michael Tupholme of TD Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning. Regarding the nuclear segment, strong margins in the quarter, I think it was about 18%, that is above what you've historically talked about, that segment as sort of being the target margin range. I guess the question is, can you talk a little bit about, what happened in the quarter, what drove the margins, and, how we should be thinking about that segment going forward?
Let me talk at kind of macro level first if I can. The change in the nuclear sector over the last 12 months has been pretty dramatic. The resurgence of nuclear new-build power as a genuine green power and an alternative to other forms of green power is becoming a real realization to governments. We're seeing, you know, across the industry, increased activity, increased interest, but also, you know, real opportunities. You'll have seen the announcement that we made on the small modular reactor at Darlington. Clearly the industry is about to take off and launch into a pretty fabulous opportunity, particularly for SNC-Lavalin, because we have the rights to the CANDU technology.
We feel the CANDU technology is a good new-build technology for large nuclear reactor. We're also helping other technologies on the small modular reactor side, notably GE Hitachi, where we've won that contract. I think that there are specific nuances to Q4 which drove the margins up on particular projects. I wouldn't see the general run rate of the business in the, you know, medium to long term should be different than what we've seen in the past within the range that we've got out there. Jeff, I don't know if you would add something to that.
No, I don't think I'd add anything material to that. I mean, you're absolutely right. It was closing out, you know, some projects at the end and some strong, you know, kind of cost control. But to your point, we've typically operated, you know, mid to the, you know, mid high end of our target range. I think that would be the range, at least at this point, we'd be forecasting going forward.
We confirm that for 2023.
Yeah.
Okay, perfect. Just a couple of additional questions on the LSTK project side. The backlog there was up slightly, and I think you explained why that was the case. With the 2 Ontario projects being largely on physical construction, like at what point do we start to see you get past the point where backlog increases in that area or even sort of a possibility? Does the REM project still potentially drive those? Just trying to think about how we should expect that to play out.
Jeff, it's certainly around the 2 Ontario projects. We would expect to see that backlog working down, you know, quarter by quarter, you know, till the projects wrap up later this year and are handed over. I think on REM, you know, we continue to see, you know, very steady progress on that project, and we wouldn't expect any kind of material change to that direction of travel in terms of the backlog work off. I mean, it's a little higher, you know, you do a little more work in some quarters, a little less, you know, costs move around a little bit. You know, we would expect to see, as it has been, you know, a fairly consistent working off of that backlog as we progress.
Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. Then, just a clarification on the prospect of claims recoveries. Ian, I take your point that predicting the timing of that is extremely challenging. Just to be clear, are the recoveries that you're seeking, are these in relation specifically to the two Ontario LSTK projects, or are there other projects, past LSTK projects that you're still pursuing claims, recoveries in relation to?
No. There are past projects also that we're still pursuing. I mean, I can't really go into the, you know, the finite details of each project 'cause obviously some of these negotiations are confidential. It's beyond the two. Yeah.
Okay. All right. Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Maxim Sytchev of National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, gentlemen.
Morning.
You know, Jeff, I guess I had a question in terms of sort of the pacing of cash flow drag in H1, because you've went commission right now, why is the drag kind of similar to last year? I mean, is it predicated on, you know, the milestone dynamic, or how should we think about this? Thanks.
It's, it's a bit about milestones, Maxim. It's frankly, it's a bit about or it's a lot about just paying out the supply chain for, you know, the construction work that's been done, and it's just around the payment terms of that. That, you know, that flows into Q1 and, you know, a bit of Q2 and, you know, then you add in the sort of finishing off of testing and commissioning and punch listing and, you know, all those things Ian talked about. That's why. It's, it's really that, just that delay between, you know, what you're recognizing from a profit and loss perspective and what you're actually, you know, paying out as part of the cash flow of the project.
Okay. REM has a different cash flow profile?
It's one that has a much more, you know, I would say, balanced cash flow profile in terms of the way it's been set up and running. It largely, you know, hasn't had the same sort of issues and hasn't had the same sort of financial drag just in terms of its set up. Also over and above, as Ian has said, you know, it's been progressing very well, you know, and remains a positive contribution to the group. It has a fundamentally different, you know, kind of cash impact than the other 2 projects.
Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Just one question for you, more so from a strategy perspective. Like, let's say, like, if we teleport ourselves in the future, LSTK is done, you know, you kind of talk about land and expand strategy. Just curious your sort of thought process around kind of counterbalancing, you know, the investor fatigue, which is represented in the, you know, pretty low trading multiple and, you know, some discussion around M&A and things like that. Yeah, just curious what your thoughts are there. Thanks.
Maxim, in terms of... The question is around the strategy going forward and how we think about the services business from that perspective. Sorry, did I get your question right?
Correct. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, clearly we have a consistently performing, growing engineering services business. We intend to continue to improve the performance of the business in all metrics, whether that's growth, profitability or cash flows. Because we see the markets, particularly the markets where we have chosen to operate, are so strong, we will continue to look to make sure that we are positioned in fast-growing markets and that we have the ability to leverage our local and global capability to customers and governments that we have strong relationships with. The plan going forward, for example, the U.S. plan, you know, is a very, very specific plan to maximize our growth potential, stay consistent or improve. We take that approach to all of our geographies.
I mean, you know, Canada, is very focused. The U.K. is focused on keeping its leadership position. The U.S. is focused on growth. We're actually we're seeing some pretty exciting opportunities in the Middle East right now. You're seeing maybe an uptick in our growth and backlog in the Middle East as well. All in all, you know, pretty good markets, pretty good capability. I think we've got the right plan. M&A, for sure, are a tuck-in perspective to help us build out some platforms and further relationships when the time's right and the capital's available, and it's the right time to deploy that. It's all a step-by-step process right now.
Okay, fair enough. Thank you so much.
Our next question comes from Frederic Bastien of Raymond James. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you. Good morning. My question revolves around what was just discussed with Maxim. When do you expect to be in a position to dial up growth by acquisition? Based on what I heard around the timing of cash flows, the NCIB and the internal review, it feels like it won't be until next year at the earliest. Just wanted to get your views here.
It's yeah, I think we've always said very much linked to our ability to, you know, consistently deliver positive operating cash flows. You know, I think that opportunity begins to exist, you know, in the second half of the year. You know, but I'd, you know, as we've said, we'll look to, you know, as I, you know, can look at what it creates the most value, you know, for shareholders over that time. You know, it's partly for having the NCIB program is to, you know, to make sure that we have and are available, you know, to compare opportunities that way. You know, I think we could see the opportunity later this year, certainly as we move into 2024.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This concludes the question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Denis Jasmin for any closing remarks.
Thank you very much, everyone, for joining us today. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thank you very much. Have a good day and a good weekend. Bye bye, everyone.
This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.