Good afternoon. Welcome to the twenty twenty one Annual Meeting of Shareholders of Ballard Power Systems Inc. Our host for today's call is Jim Roche, Board Chair. At this time, all participants will be in listen only mode. Management would like to remind you that some of the statements made at this meeting may be considered forward looking.
Such statements are based on management's current expectations, beliefs and assumptions concerning future events. Actual results could be materially different. Please refer to Ballard's most recent annual information form and other public filings on SEDAR for a complete disclaimer and related information. I will now turn the call over to your host, Jim Roach.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the annual meeting of shareholders of Ballard Power Systems Inc. My name is Jim Roche. I am the Chair of the Board and will act as the Chair of this meeting. We're delighted to be hosting our second virtual meeting, which allows us to improve access and increase shareholder participation.
By hosting the meeting virtually, all of our shareholders are able to attend and vote with the same ease as listening to a quarterly earnings call rather than incurring the costs required to travel to an in person meeting. This also allows us to maintain social distancing during the ongoing COVID-nineteen pandemic. We'll conduct the business portion of our meeting first and answer questions at the end of the meeting. Though we may not be able to answer every question, we'll do our best to provide response to as many as possible in the time available. Please note that this meeting is being recorded.
However, no one attending via the webcast or telephone is permitted to use any audio recording device. Now shortly after 1PM Pacific Time on June 2, and this meeting is officially called to order. Now I'd like to introduce the members of management who are attending today's meeting. Randy McKeown, Randy is our President and Chief Executive Officer. He is also one of the nominees for election as a Director today Paul Dobson, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Robert Campbell, Senior Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer Kevin Kolbuk, Senior Vice President and Chief Technology Officer Jan Lashley, Senior Vice President, Human Resources Jyoti Sidhu, Senior Vice President, Operations Carrie Hillier, Vice President and General Counsel.
Carrie will also act as Secretary for today's meeting Guy Macquarie, Director of Investor Relations and Monique Dunn, Senior Corporate Communications Analyst. On behalf of the Board, I wish to express thanks to those shareholders who submitted their proxies in advance of today's meeting. As this meeting is being held virtually via live webcast, there are some rules that we have established for the orderly conduct of the meeting. First, questions in respect of a motion may be submitted by a shareholder or duly appointed proxy holder using the designated Ask a Question field on the web portal. Please note that there will be a slight timing delay in receiving the questions.
When asking a question, please indicate your name, which entity you represent, if any, and confirm that you are a registered or beneficial shareholder or a duly appointed proxy holder. Third, questions will be addressed during the question period at the end of the meeting. However, I may deal with questions regarding procedural matters or directly related to the motions during the formal portion of the meeting at an appropriate time. Fourth, for the purposes of the meeting today, voting on all matters will be conducted by a single electronic ballot. Shareholders and duly appointed proxy holders will be asked to vote on each business item after the presentation of all such business items.
Only shareholders and duly appointed proxy holders of the corporation are permitted to participate in the voting. You can vote by clicking on the Vote Here button on the web portal to register your votes. You'll only have a certain amount of time to do so. And in fact, the polls are now open. We also refer you to our rules of conduct and procedures, which have been posted to our corporate website and the virtual shareholder meeting website.
After the formal business of the meeting, management will provide an update presentation on our business. The question period will follow. Okay, we'll now proceed with the formal portion of today's meeting. Under the corporation's articles, no motion proposed at a meeting of shareholders need be seconded unless the chair rules otherwise, and the chair of any meeting of shareholders is entitled to propose a motion accordingly as permitted by these articles and in order to ensure our online meeting flows smoothly, I'll move all motions set out in the notice of meeting and I will not require motions to be seconded. So I will begin the proceedings by appointing Leanne Branston and Rita Gutierrez Fernandez from Broadridge Financial Services to act as our scrutineers.
The notice of this meeting was mailed out on 04/29/2021, to shareholders of record as of 04/12/2021. Ballard has received a certificate of mailing from its transfer agent, which is available for inspection by any shareholder. I direct that the Secretary append the certificate of mailing to the minutes of this meeting. Thanks, Gary. I have been advised by the scrutineer that a quorum is present, and I therefore declare the meeting properly constituted for the transaction of business.
The agenda for today's meeting was included in the notice of meeting that was sent to shareholders and is currently up on the screen. I'll now table the following materials: our consolidated financial statements and the auditors report for the year ended 12/31/2020. We've mailed shareholders these materials together with the notice of this meeting. There are also copies available on our website. Mr.
Paul Dobson, our Chief Financial Officer and Mr. John Desjardins from KPMG are with us today and will be available to answer questions regarding the financial statements and the auditors report during the Q and A session at the end of this meeting. I declare that the consolidated financial statements and the auditors report have been received by the shareholders as submitted at this meeting. I'll now present the matters to be voted upon. Just a reminder that the polls are open and will remain open until the matters to be voted upon have all been addressed.
Any shareholder or proxy holder who hasn't yet voted or wishes to change their vote may do so now by clicking on the voting button on the web portal and following the instructions there. Shareholders and proxy holders who have sent in proxies or voted via telephone or Internet and do not want to change their vote need not take any further action. We'll now proceed with the election of directors for the upcoming year. Biographies of the nominees are included in the information circular that has been sent out to shareholders. I'd like to now introduce the nominees for election as Directors, all of whom are with us here today.
In alphabetical order, these nominees are Doug Hayhurst. Doug is a Corporate Director. He was an executive with IBM Canada Business Consulting Services and a managing partner with Pricewaterhouse Canada. Doug has served on the Board since 2012 and as our Chair of the Audit Committee since 2016. Kevin Zhang.
Kevin is President of Shandong Heavy Industry Group Company Limited and one of two Weichai Power Company Limited nominees appointed to the Board in 2019. Kevin brings expansive experience in technology and product development and manufacturing in China and across the globe. Zilan Li. Zilan is President of DLE Management Consulting, LLC. She had a long and distinguished career at Texas Instruments Inc.
And brings technology transfer expertise to the Board. She served on our Board since 2017. Randy McKeown, Randy is your President and CEO. Marty Neese. Marty is a Corporate Director.
He's the Founder of NuvoSil AF and has served as Chief Operating Officer of companies in this technology sector. Margie brings manufacturing and operational expertise to the Board. He served on our Board since 2015 and as Chair of the Commercial Committee since 2019. James Roach, I am the President and CEO of Stratford Group Limited and currently serve as Chairman of your Chair of your Board of Directors. I've served on the Board since 2015.
Sherman Sun. Sherman is an Executive Director and Executive President of Weichai Power Company Limited and the other Weichai nominee appointed to the Board in 2019. Sherman likewise brings substantial experience in technology and product development and manufacturing in China and across the globe. Janet Woodruff. Janet is a Corporate Director.
Janet has served as Director and in executive positions in utility, energy and transportation sectors and brings CFO expertise to the Board. She was appointed Chair of the People, Corporate Governance and Compensation Committee in 2019 and have served on our Board since 2017. So I nominate as Directors of the Corporation Doug Hayhurst, Kevin Jiang, Zilong Li, Brandy McKeown, Marty Nies, James Roach, Sherman Sun and Janet Woodruff. The next item of business is the appointment of the auditors of the corporation for the coming year. I move that KPMG LLP, Chartered Accountants, be appointed as the auditors of the corporation until the next annual meeting of shareholders and for their remuneration to be fixed by the Audit Committee of our Board of Directors.
The next matter is an advisory vote on executive compensation, commonly known as say on pay. The corporation's approach to executive compensation is described in the executive compensation section of the information circular. The text of the resolution is provided on the web portal and also set out in the information circular on Page 40. As the vote on this resolution is advisory, the results will not be binding on the Board or the People and Corporate Governance Committee. However, the Board and Committee will take these results into account as part of the ongoing review of executive compensation philosophy, policies and programs.
I move that the resolution set out in the information circular accepting the corporation's approach to executive compensation be adopted. The next matter of business is the reconfirmation and approval of the corporation's equity based compensation plans. Corporation's equity based compensation plans and the TSX requirements for their approval every three years are described in the information circular. The text of the resolution is provided on the web portal and also set out in the information circular on Page 41. I move that the resolution set out in the information circular reconfirming and approving the corporation's equity based compensation plans be adopted.
If any shareholder or proxy holder would like to make a comment regarding any of the motions, please submit your comment through the web portal. Okay. In the absence of comments, we'll move on. Now that everybody has had the opportunity to vote, I declare the polls for the twenty twenty one Ballard Annual Shareholder Meeting closed. Terry, do we have preliminary voting results?
Yes, we do, Jim. We've been informed by the scrutineer that the preliminary vote report shows that the nominees for election to the Board had been duly elected, the auditors have been appointed, the corporation's approach to executive compensation has been approved by advisory vote and the corporation's equity based compensation plans have been reconfirmed and approved. The complete voting results will be available in a press release and filed on SEDAR tomorrow.
Great. Thanks, Carrie. I'll ask the Secretary to append the final scrutineers report to the minutes of today's meeting. There being no further business to come before the meeting, the twenty twenty one Annual Meeting of Shareholders of Ballard Power Systems Inc. Is now adjourned.
Now I'm going to call on Randy McKeown, our CEO, who will provide an update presentation. Randy, over to you.
Thanks Jim, and welcome everyone. I'd also like to thank all of our shareholders joining us live today for your time, interest and confidence in Ballard. Our inspiring vision is to deliver fuel cell power for a sustainable planet. This purpose gets our entire global team fired up every day. And today there's good reason for this.
We're much further along on this journey today than we were at this time last year. We're encouraged how the market conditions are forming and we're excited by the growing opportunity set in front of your company. Now we have a simple agenda here today and it's designed to share some of the context with you on why we're so optimistic about our long term growth plans as well as what to look for over the relative near term. Increasingly, the discussion on the hydrogen fuel industry fuel cell industry is not if the markets will adopt, but rather which markets will see the fastest and highest growth in penetration and when. Now in my opinion, the single most important macro driver supporting the adoption of hydrogen in our market opportunities is a global challenge to achieve net zero.
We're increasingly becoming a CO2 regulated world and there's also a growing global consensus on the important role for hydrogen. Today, there are some 75 countries that have net zero emission targets typically by 02/1950. There are now around 50 countries that have CO2 pricing initiatives and 20 countries have announced future sales bans on internal combustion engine vehicles, while 24 European cities have also announced plans to outright ban diesel engines. And importantly, over 30 countries, representing over 70% of global GDP, have announced hydrogen strategies or roadmaps, signaling the critical role that hydrogen will serve in decarbonizing mobility, energy and industry. And over 200 major hydrogen projects have been announced globally.
So the trends and momentum are clear and undeniable. They also indicate that now is the time for investment in the hydrogen and fuel cell opportunities. For us at Ballard, this strong contextual overlay has informed our strategy and our execution plans. And what we see is very excited. We see a future of growth, scale, market share, sustainable competitive advantages and profitability.
We see large attractive markets where we're well positioned to compete and thrive. We see a total addressable market of $425,000,000,000 for the sale of fuel cell engines by 02/1930, growing further by 02/1950. Our strategy is to use the same core PEM fuel cell competencies, the same core PEM fuel cell technology, including our MEAs, plates and stacks, along with the same standardized fuel cell engines or significant part of the bills and materials for our fuel cell engines to be sold across multiple end markets, including bus, truck, rail, marine, light duty vehicle, off road vehicles and stationary power. This means we have leverage and diversification in our business model with multiple shots on goal. This means that in addition to our technology leadership, we expect to have volume and scale advantages across these multiple end markets, enabling cost advantages.
And there's a virtuous growth cycle here because fuel cell technology penetration rates will be driven by cost reduction as well as the availability of affordable low carbon hydrogen, which I'll comment on later. So why do we see fuel cells winning and in which markets? Ballard has been a thought leader addressing this question. We see the most important and earliest adoption markets in scale will be the medium and heavy duty motive markets of bus, truck, rail and marine. Not surprisingly, these are the markets that we're focused on at Ballard.
We believe these markets will offer compelling revenue stacking opportunity as adoption rate curves goes forward. Now there are three key reasons why we're focused on the medium and heavy duty motive markets of bus, truck, rail and marine. First, these are the markets where the value proposition for fuel cells are most strongly expressed. Second, many of the use cases in these markets feature vehicles that operate tethered within a relatively small territory and return back to base at night for refueling. Think about city buses that return to a yard after a long day on city roads.
Think about delivery, drayage and regional haul trucks that return to same depots. Think about trains returning to stations on fixed routes. Think about marine vessels returning to port. For centralized depot refueling or point to point refueling, the barriers to entry on the refueling infrastructure are lower than applications requiring a distributed refueling network. And third, and this is very important to our team at Ballard, these are the hard to abate mobility market segments that disproportionately contribute to emissions, but to date have been extraordinarily difficult to abate.
We believe these hard to abate markets will see hydrogen fuel cells as the only viable option for decarbonization. So to summarize succinctly, we view hydrogen fuel cells offering a differentiated zero emission value proposition for each of bus, truck, rail and marine. For buses, hydrogen fuel cells means any route, any time under any weather conditions. For trucks, hydrogen fuel cells means no compromise on payload. For trains, hydrogen fuel cells mean low cost electrification without the need for expenses overhead catenary wires.
And for marine vessels, hydrogen fuel cells mean zero emission in demanding marine conditions. Now we want to provide more dimension on the value proposition for fuel cells in heavy duty mobility. We don't have time today review each market, so I've selected to shine a light on the largest market opportunity, heavy trucks. What we see in this market is the opportunity for vehicle users to enjoy a similar operational experience they already have today with diesel powered trucks, while adding the benefits of zero emission, smooth and fast acceleration and low noise. We see the opportunity for no disruption to the current business model of users.
We see fuel trucks fuel cell trucks offering comparable range, minimal payload impact and comparable refueling time to diesel. The fuel cell advantages as compared to battery solutions are pronounced. Fuel cells offer roughly double the range, 15 times faster refueling and optimized cargo loads. Now this graph here helps to quantify the cargo advantage offered by fuel cells. Fuel cell electric vehicles offer a 30% range plus cargo capacity advantage over BEVs or battery electric vehicles at a 300 mile range.
This translates to real value. So when you consider the variables of weight, range, utilization and route predictability, fuel cells are compelling for heavyweight, long range and high utilization with a hub and spoke or point to point refueling. Now on the refueling infrastructure side, we see the evolution over time where centralized refueling is the lowest barrier, then followed by point to point or long haul corridor refueling. Over the long term, we expect to see the build out of a broad public refueling infrastructure as is already occurring today in Japan, Germany, California and South Korea. Importantly, hydrogen refueling stations enjoy scaling advantages.
As the number of FCEVs in the service fleet increase and utilization of refueling stations increases, the economics improve. Refueling station CapEx falls 60% when utilization increases from 30% to 90%. And hydrogen refueling stations offer lower complexity and lower costs for fleet scaling as compared to large scale recharging infrastructure. Now we often get asked the question about the carbon intensity of the hydrogen used to fuel fuel cell electric vehicles. There are different pathways to move to low carbon hydrogen.
In the near to mid term, we'll need all of them to achieve our global decarbonization objectives. Of course, over the longer term, we believe green hydrogen, which is hydrogen produced from electrolysis with renewable energy, like solar and wind, will play the primary role. Green hydrogen has the lowest CO2 emissions profile for all technologies that can power vehicles. I believe the cost reduction pathway for green hydrogen will rise much faster than the industry is currently forecasting as the cost for renewables continue to decrease and the cost for electrolyzers plunge with scale. And let's remember why all of this is so important and so exciting for hard to abate sectors.
It's because vehicles powered with green hydrogen have the lowest possible CO2 emissions. Let me say that again, vehicles powered by green hydrogen have the lowest possible CO2 emissions. So this must and will be a key part of the global energy transition. And what we see here in this graph is very powerful. Using green hydrogen in fuel cells reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 89% in 02/1930 and ninety five percent in 02/1950 compared to the diesel reference in the truck case.
There are similar outcomes for bus, rail and marine. Given some of the recent progress we've announced in the light in the rail market, I did want to spend a moment to comment on freight locomotives in North America. As context, we've been active in China over the past five years with CRRC. As a result, the world's only fuel cell tram line in commercial operation today is in China, with five trams operated by Ballard since 2019, I should say powered by Ballard since 2019. We've also been collaborating with Siemens as they developed the Mireo fuel cell train powered by Ballard fuel cell engines for the commuter rail market in Europe.
And now, we're seeing another opportunity beyond rail transport of people in China and Europe. Recently, we've seen market interest on how to decarbonize freight locomotives in North America. For freight locomotives, the typical use case is long heavy trains on long fixed routes with point to point diesel refueling. Almost all of the North American rail infrastructure is not electrified. So fuel cells offer unique opportunity to decarbonize locomotives without the high cost of overhead catenary wires.
There are 40,000 diesel locomotives in North America. In the 1950s, the storyline was a transition from steam engines to diesel locomotives. I believe the storyline in the 2020s and 2030s will be the transition from diesel locomotives to fuel cell locomotives in North America. And at Ballard, we're positioned to play a key role in this transition. We're thrilled to be partnering with CP, an industry leader in the North American rail sector on their hydrogen locomotive program that will develop North America's First hydrogen and fuel cell powered line haul freight locomotive.
So let's turn our attention now to what to watch for over the next twelve to eighteen months. And there are six key themes or catalysts to watch for in the industry and at Ballard. First, the next phase of regulatory support second, progress on low carbon hydrogen production third, indicators that the industry will start a ramp for deployments of fuel cell electric vehicles fourth, new product launches fifth, significant progress on product cost reduction and sixth, continuation of the scale and acceleration in investments in our industry. And I'll comment on each of these in turn. First on the policy front, net zero targets will be a key driver of cascading policies.
We expect you'll start to see hydrogen roadmaps and strategies being backed up with material funding commitments and concrete execution plans as we recently saw in Germany. We expect you'll see funds from green recovery plans starting to be awarded, including for green hydrogen production and related infrastructure. I expect to also see a heightened focus on carbon taxes or other carbon pricing mechanisms, as well as the phased adoption of zero emission regulations for buses, trucks, trains and marine vessels. Increasingly, I believe China, Europe and The U. S.
Will see hydrogen and its value chain as strategically important to their long term energy security and economic growth plans. This means that policies will likely be structured to support adoption in home markets, played out most strongly with support for scaled adoption of green hydrogen production and the deployment of fuel cell electric vehicles in hard to abate segments. Second, look for progress on low carbon hydrogen production. There's strong policy support for green hydrogen production, including in Europe, China, Chile, Australia, Saudi Arabia and The U. S.
This will enable growth in the global electrolyzer market, which we see reaching 90 gigawatts of cumulative deployments in the base case and 150 gigawatts in the aggressive case. And a recent study by Aurora Energy Research forecasts a 1,000 fold increase in electrolyzers by 02/1940, with over 200 gigawatts of projects on slate for development by 02/1940, with project sizes moving from sub-ten megawatts to 100 megawatts to 500 megawatts. Third, we believe there will be clear signals for the adoption of fuel cell vehicles, particularly in China and Europe. We believe market adoption for fuel cell electric vehicles and heavy duty motor will surprise to the upside through 02/1930, well beyond the current forecast of 2,000,000 buses and trucks. And we expect China and Europe to represent greater than 4030% respectively of the global market by 02/1930.
And at Ballard, we're expecting to see a sharp increase over the next five years for the deployment of fuel cell electric vehicles with Ballard technology inside, driven by China and Europe. We expect this to be followed by an even steeper curve over the next ten years with trucks leading the volumes during that period. Now while recent order flow has been muted, this masks the underlying strength and growth in customer engagement levels. We've grown our sales pipeline 70% since the start of 2020. So key theme over the next six to eighteen months will be conversion of sales pipeline to orders.
Theme four is new product launches. You will see newer entrants launching their first or second generation fuel cell products over the next eighteen months. At Ballard, you can also expect to see continued product launches for bus, truck, rail and marine as we continue to innovate and progress from generation 13 of our fuel cell stack and generation eight of our fuel cell engines. We're also encouraged by products expected for launch from our Weichai Ballard joint venture in China, from our joint development work with Male in the European truck market and from our strategic partnership with Linamar in the light duty segment. The fifth catalyst is product cost reduction.
The industry forecasts are for costs to come down 60% for the production of green hydrogen and 70% for fuel cells. And there'll be milestones along this journey. And here I recommend you track Ballard carefully. We believe we have the leading cost roadmap in the industry in our target markets. Our aggressive cost reduction plan is designed to enable broader and faster market adoption by hitting relevant cost parities.
Now we previously unveiled a key contributor to our product cost reduction, our three by three stack cost reduction plan, designed to achieve a 70% cost reduction by 2024 through engineering design, supply chain activities and advanced manufacturing initiatives. I'm pleased to report that we're tracking favorably to our 3x3 plan. And as you can see from the slide, much of our technology development work has been completed and the large bulk of our remaining work going forward is on continued project execution. The sixth and final theme of catalyst relates to industry investment. You can expect to see an increase and acceleration of capital commitments and investments to hydrogen fuel cells over the next eighteen months, including by governments, companies, investment community and new hydrogen infrastructure funds.
At Ballard, we're also increasing and accelerating our investment ahead of market tipping points. We're increasing our investment across three categories of activity product innovation, industrialization and corporate development. For corporate development activities, we're seeing a very active pipeline of M and A and investment opportunities. We'll prioritize these activities first to support our customers by reducing friction points for customer adoption second, to enhance long term value chain positioning by securing control points And third, developing new routes to market. So to summarize, we're excited with the macro backdrop.
We like the tone and scale of the future market opportunities. We think fuel cells are well placed to win significant market penetration and heavy duty motive. And we think Ballard is well positioned to compete and thrive in these markets. We believe there are themes and catalysts that are useful to track industry and corporate performance over the next twelve months. Again, we appreciate your investment and confidence in Ballard.
We believe Ballard offers a unique investment thesis on hydrogen fuel cell electrification in mobility. And with that, we'll turn the call over for questions. Thanks.
Randy, thanks very much. Great presentation. Let's open it up for shareholder questions that are being answered today on the web portal. Please note, we will attempt to answer as many questions as time allows, but of course, only questions that are relevant to the meeting will be addressed. So Guy, let us know about the questions.
Thanks, Jim. We do have a few questions that are along a similar theme. For example, from Mr. George Smith, a individual or retail shareholder. And basically, if I could kind of describe the theme or the questions along these lines, although I think everyone recognizes that Ballard does not provide formal financial guidance, these shareholders are wondering if we could comment at all on what would be reasonable expectation around financial results top line growth in the current year over the next few years as Ballard moves towards the major long term opportunities that Randy just described in his update presentation.
So I wonder perhaps Randy or Paul Dobson, perhaps you'd want to comment on that kind of question?
Yes. Thanks, Kyle. I'll start off and then Paul can supplement. First of all, George, thanks very much for your question and for being a shareholder. And I think what we've been articulating for a few years now, when you look at the regulations out there in terms of buses and trucks moving to zero emission and the programs that we have with various customers like, for example, in the rail market with Siemens and CP and CRC and like in the truck market, the work we're doing with Male and even in the light duty vehicle advanced segment with Linamar and the work we're doing with Weichai and the expected real adoption rates, what we see is 2024, '20 '20 '5 through 02/1930, the adoption curve is very steep.
And I think we're going to see growth potentially triple digit growth during some of those years. So that's very exciting. And I do think that it's critically important for us to invest ahead of that growth curve. What I would say in terms of 2021 is we do disclose our order book and our order book is kind of a leading indicator of what people can expect for delivery over the next twelve months. So that's a data point that I think you can use for assessing what 2021 might look like.
But more importantly, I do think as you look to twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, we'll see, I think, very attractive growth rates by most industry standards. But again, that steep curve will happen as you get closer to the twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five timeframe with some of these markets like Europe and California and China having to meet emissions requirements where diesel will be very challenged to meet emissions requirements. You've got in California, a zero emission bus and zero emission clean truck standards starting in 2024 for trucks and requiring 50% of all new transit buses in California being zero emission in 2025. Similarly in Europe, the requirements there are for a 15% reduction starting in 2025 and a 30% reduction in emissions by 02/1930. So these are a number of variables that I think are critically important to track and will show that growth coming in a few years' time.
So I think the investment community can track the order book and the conversion of the sales pipeline to orders over time as a good lead indicator. And importantly, as we get closer to these mission requirements and the rollout of concrete plans from hydrogen strategies, those adoptions will occur. I'll just see if Paul has anything additional to add.
Thanks, Randy. No, I think you've covered it quite thoroughly. I think the only thing I might add is look for continuing order flow coming in like we've had from BrightFuzz and Solaris most recently. We would see that as these companies come through their development phase is beginning to order more and more stacks and modules. And that will be a good indicator of the revenue is ramping up.
And I think that timeframe that Randy laid out in 2024, '20 '20 '5, we'll just be stepping on to then at that point the growth curve and real the real exciting growth, I think, will happen from 2025 to 02/1930 and beyond actually. So look for those proof points. In addition to government subsidies in China and in other places as well, will help unlock order flow. Thank you.
Yes. Thanks, Paul. And I might just add, one of the things that I find very attractive about the revenue growth we see in the future is the scaffolding or stacking effect that we see with the growth of the bus market and then adding on top of that the large attractive truck market. And as those two markets grow, adding on top of that the rail market and as those markets grow, adding on top of that the marine market. So that gives us a lot of rich diversification in different verticals and this leverage of volume across multiple end markets that will again enable us not only to have our technology advantage at Ballard, but also a volume and cost advantage.
Thanks, Randy and Paul. I think that addresses those questions very effectively. We actually have no further questions in the queue at this point.
Thanks, Guy. So that concludes our Q and A session. On behalf of the Board of Directors, I'd like to thank the management team and thank everyone for joining us today.
This does not conclude the meeting. Thanks for joining and have a pleasant day.