Brookfield Corporation (TSX:BN)
Canada flag Canada · Delayed Price · Currency is CAD
53.25
-0.94 (-1.73%)
Sep 9, 2026, 4:00 PM EST
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: Q3 2020

Nov 12, 2020

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Brookfield Asset Management 2020 Third Quarter Results Conference Call and Webcast. At this time, all participants' lines are in a listen-only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star and then one on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference may be recorded. If you require any further assistance, please press star and then zero. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Ms. Suzanne Fleming. Ma'am, you may begin.

Suzanne Fleming
Global Head of Corporate Communications and Brand, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you operator. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Brookfield's third quarter 2020 conference call. On the call today are Bruce Flatt, our Chief Executive Officer, Nick Goodman, our Chief Financial Officer, and Mark Murski, a managing partner in our infrastructure business and Chief Operating Officer of our North American operations. Bruce will start off by giving a business update, followed by Nick, who will discuss our financial and operating results for the quarter. Finally, Mark will talk about infrastructure's Enwave business. After our formal comments, we'll turn the call over to the operator and take analyst questions. I'd like to remind you that in today's comments, including in responding to questions and in discussing new initiatives in our financial and operating performance, we may make forward-looking statements, including forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable Canadian and U.S. securities law.

These statements reflect predictions of future events and trends and do not relate to historic events. They're subject to known and unknown risks, and future events and results may differ materially from such statements. For further information on these risks and their potential impacts on our company, please see our filings with the securities regulators in Canada and the U.S., and the information available on our website. Thank you. Now I'll turn the call over to Bruce.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you, Suzanne. Good morning everyone on the call. Starting with operating performance in the third quarter. Nick will get into it in detail. I'll just make a few comments. We earned record operating FFO during the quarter. In fact, higher than any other quarter in our history. This demonstrated the strength and resiliency of our combined asset management franchise and the quality of our operating businesses today. I would also note that we are just starting our way out of this recession, and not all of our businesses are performing where they should be. The strong operating performance across these businesses was driven by excellent results, in several of our private equity businesses. Some which benefited from strong demand and pricing from new housing starts, which snapped back after the lockdowns in the spring.

Consistent with previous quarters, our infrastructure and renewable businesses continued to deliver very steady results, backed by 100% availability of all of those assets. Those businesses that did see volume decreases in the first half of the year, such as our ports and toll road businesses, saw recoveries during the quarter as governments eased restrictive measures. Within our real estate business, office rent collections remained at normal collection levels, and investment demand for this asset class is strong and soon to get stronger. Just this last month, we entered into an agreement to sell one of our London office properties at a 9% premium to the price we paid for half the property just 12 months ago. For those of you familiar with real estate jargon, it was at a sub 4% cap rate.

Across our retail mall portfolio, foot traffic is increasingly, and more importantly, customer spending continues to increase, as does rent collection each month. For the month of October, we were above 70% collection across our malls, and a good portion of the difference is from tenants that are open, but we are still discussing arrears from the lockdown period. We're also seeing a return of occupancy at most of our hospitality assets as we continue to open up across the portfolio. Of course, nothing is ever perfect, and in some spots we've taken a few steps back. Bottom line is that economies are on the mend, and assets are coming back from their induced shutdowns. Turning to our asset management franchise and fundraising. We raised $18 billion of private capital during the quarter, including over $12 billion towards the previously announced first close of our latest distressed debt fund, and $6 billion of commitments across a growing number of other strategies.

A few examples include our European core plus real estate fund that closed during the quarter, raising just over EUR 1 billion and exceeding its initial target. Our second vintage private infrastructure debt fund, which has raised nearly $2 billion to date, already double more than the previous fund. The success of our recent fundraising reflects the investment themes that we're seeing in the market today, with investors moving capital out of government bonds and into asset classes with low volatility and proven income to supplement their portfolios. Today, we have over $75 billion of liquidity or dry powder across our private and public entities available for new investments.

We see opportunities to deploy this capital beginning to pick up. In March, when the shutdown started, governments were able to bridge bond and equity markets to get businesses through a period of time. Those who were in bad financial situations to begin with or borrowed too much money over the last nine months will soon need equity. Many of them will have to be recapitalized in some form, and given our significant amount of capital to put into these opportunities, we are ready for it. With the pipeline of deals that we are currently working on today, we expect to be back into the market soon with our next round of flagship funds, starting with a real estate fund in early 2021. Turning briefly to our own corporate cash deployment. Over the last few months, we've funded a number of new areas, including reinsurance, which I'll discuss in a moment.

We also allocated approximately $1 billion to purchases of BPY, whose current trading price does not reflect anywhere near the value of the high-quality portfolio real estate that it owns. This is similar to the current trading price of Brookfield Asset Management, and given the discount widened recently, due both to increases in value of our assets and share price declines, we were repurchasing BAM shares in the last month and will continue to do so as long as the shares trade at meaningful discounts to our view of underlying value.

Lastly, before I turn it over to Nick, at our Investor Day in September, I touched on a number of new strategies that we believe will be the next large areas for growth for us over the next decade. One of those strategies is reinsurance. As we looked at the reinsurance space over the last five or 10 years, we were cautious with our approach, particularly in an environment of declining interest rates that heightened the risks of locking in long-dated liabilities at relatively high interest rates. Today, with interest rates globally essentially zero, we believe that the risk of reinsuring long-tail liabilities is the lowest it has been in our lifetime. It's therefore an opportune time to provide capital to insurance platforms and build our reinsurance business.

Over the past few years, we have seeded a few smaller insurance businesses on our own balance sheet as we built up expertise in the space. Last month, we entered into a strategic partnership with American Equity to reinsure $10 billion of their fixed annuity policies. We believe our alternative asset strategies will deliver long-term value to this portfolio, and hopefully other companies will consider similar partnerships with us going forward. In order to set up these growing operations in the most effective form, we also announced our intention to create a new listed entity, which will be named Brookfield Asset Management Reinsurance Partners, which will be distributed to you as a special dividend. This new entity will be designed to enjoy all the benefits of BAM as a paired security, and all the upside created in reinsurance will be shared with all BAM and BAM Reinsurance shareholders.

We expect that this new share will replicate the success of the pairing of our Brookfield Renewable and Infrastructure Corporations that were created earlier this year. We hope to complete the spin-off of BAM Reinsurance Partners sometime in the first half of 2021, subject, of course, to all the necessary regulatory approvals. Sometime in the future, once reinsurance is more mature, this pair could be turned into a separate entity. For the time being, it will require the resources of Brookfield to grow. In the interim, it will be set up efficiently for operating the business and will also enable you to choose which security of Brookfield Asset Management is best for you to own in your own capacity. With those comments, I will turn it over to Nick Goodman, who will cover our results in more detail for the quarter.

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you, Bruce. Good morning, everyone. As Bruce touched on earlier, our financial results were very strong in the third quarter. Funds from operations or total FFO was $1 billion for the quarter or $0.65 a share, which was a 26% increase over the prior year quarter. Our operating FFO, which excludes the impact of disposition gains and realized carried interest, was a record $850 million in the quarter or $0.53 per share. This really reflects the resiliency of our operating businesses and the growth in our asset management franchise. All of this resulted in income to shareholders of $172 million or $0.10 on a per-share basis. While this is lower than usual due to some lagging effects of the shutdown, we do expect the fourth quarter and 2021 to return to close to normal levels.

Within our asset management results, fee-related earnings increased by 22% to $372 million for the three-month period and totaled $1.4 billion over the last 12 months. That's an increase of 36% from the same period in 2019. This growth is a reflection of the record fundraising and deployment across our long-term and perpetual private funds, growth in our listed affiliates, and a full year's contribution from our credit business. Today, our fee-bearing capital totals $290 billion, and our annual fee revenue stand at $3 billion. We also have approximately $30 billion of additional capital that will become fee-bearing when invested, and that should generate approximately $300 million of incremental fee revenues annually when fully deployed. In the quarter, we generated $703 million of gross carried interest, bringing our unrealized carried interest balance to $4 billion.

This is reflective of value enhancements within various operating businesses in our private funds, and value uplifts on publicly traded securities within our credit strategies. We recognized $42 million of carried interest during the quarter, and that's $482 million over the last 12 months. Transactions have slowed over the last six months, as you would imagine, but we are now seeing the pipeline of deal activity for both private and public markets pick up, and we expect to realize an increasing amount of carried interest in the near future as we complete the monetization of assets within our more mature flagship funds. Turning to invested capital, excluding disposition gains, FFO for the quarter was $478 million, an increase of 34% from the prior period.

The increase was driven by excellent performance within some of our private equity businesses, most notably Norbord, and similar strong performance within our portfolio of financial assets. We also saw a 50% increase in home sales compared to last year at our North American residential home builder, and this should translate into increased FFO over the next few quarters as the home sales are delivered. Finally, our FFO benefited from the contribution of newly acquired assets and same-store growth across a number of our segments. Since we last reported, we successfully completed secondary offerings for a portion of our holdings in both BIPC and BEPC. These securities have seen tremendous demand since their spin-offs, and these transactions should further support liquidity in these shares by increasing the public float.

Our balance sheet remains a significant strength for us, with many investments that can be turned to cash on a day's notice, though are not counted in our liquidity numbers. Through these two transactions, we were able to unlock approximately $500 million of liquidity, which we can look to redeploy into other opportunities over time. We do continue to maintain a very significant holdings in both of these companies, and continue to view each as outstanding businesses to invest in. Our strong results led to $747 million of Cash Available for Distribution, or what we call CAFD, during the quarter. That's a 37% increase from the third quarter of 2019 when excluding the impact of carried interest. On a last 12-month basis, we generated a record $2.8 billion of CAFD, which highlights the stable and predictable nature of our cash flows through all market cycles.

This cash flow continues to bolster our liquidity, which we look to reinvest in the business, for example, to start new investment strategies such as insurance or technology, or over time, will be returned to shareholders. Over the last 12 months, we've returned over $1.3 billion of capital to our shareholders through dividends and share repurchases. Today, our liquidity and capitalization remain very strong. In addition to $60 billion of uncalled fund commitments, we have approximately $16 billion of core liquidity across the group, including $6 billion directly at BAM, and that's for a total of $76 billion of deployable capital. After the quarter end, we further enhanced this liquidity through the issuance of a 60-year, $400 million green subordinate note at 4.625%, proceeds of which will be used to fund eligible green projects.

Including the new issuance, our balance sheet continues to be very conservatively capitalized, with a corporate debt to market capitalization ratio of 14% and an average remaining term on our corporate debt of 14 years, and we have no individual piece of debt maturing before 2023. Finally, I am pleased to confirm that our board of directors has declared a $0.12 per share dividend payable at the end of December, and we look forward to giving you another special dividend next year, as Bruce described. With that, I will now turn the call over to Mark Murski.

Mark Murski
Managing Partner of Infrastructure and COO of North American Operations, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you, Nick, good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to join you today to tell you about our North American district energy utility called Enwave and the evolution and growth that we have achieved in this business. Enwave, which is held in our early vintage infrastructure flagship funds, is a great case study on how we identified, acquired a leading and sustainable energy business for value and used our operating expertise, access to capital, knowledge and expertise within adjacent asset classes to grow the business and create significant amounts of value. First, let me start with a quick overview of district energy. District energy refers to large-scale networks of heating and cooling systems that generate, store, and share different forms of energy through individual buildings in a district.

Users benefit from the cost efficiency and full redundancy of a central energy system, thus allowing them to redeploy their capital and space into higher and better uses. Today, district energy is a key driver of the sustainable growth of cities globally. This is because 70% of the world's energy is consumed in cities today, and 50% of that energy is used for heating and cooling. This creates a meaningful opportunity for district energy systems to efficiently and effectively heat and cool our buildings while contributing to sustainability goals by deploying a communal, low-carbon, green energy technology across broad networks of pipes through major cities. Speaking specifically to Enwave, in 2012, we had the opportunity to acquire the business, which was, and still is, one of the most unique district energy utilities in North America, if not the world.

Enwave is the largest geothermal cooling district energy system in the world and offers the cleanest form of cooling to be harnessed, specifically deep lake water cooling from Lake Ontario at the foot of the city. This deep lake water cooling technology is about two and a half times more efficient than conventional cooling and leads to a 90% reduction in energy usage compared to conventional heating and cooling systems. At the time, the business was serving a small subset of hospitals, data centers, offices, and residential buildings in the Toronto downtown core, and the growth aspirations were modest and limited to the local market. We acquired the business with a view that we were, A, buying a great existing business with very strong in-place cash flows and a strong organic growth potential.

B, we could leverage the economics, social, and environmental qualities of the renewable energy to grow the footprint of the business by 3 to 5 times in an accretive and sustainable manner. What we learned in very short order was that the attributes of district energy were even better than we had underwritten. In addition to the clear high barriers to entry, which is an important characteristic of all investments we make, the economics of district energy deliver significant value to customers in the forms of reliability, capital allocation, lower operating costs, and sustainability. From an operations perspective, utilization can materially exceed 100%. Because of these distinct attributes, we were soon able to drive double-digit organic growth in the initial portfolio of assets that we acquired and achieve renewal rates over 99%.

This early experience gave us the conviction that district energy is a superior asset class in the infrastructure space and shaped our plans to accelerate growth of the business into new geographies, especially given the significant market dislocation between price and value that we were seeing within the asset class at the time. Over the past eight years, we've been active in acquiring some of the best district energy systems in the fastest-growing and most populated cities across North America, including Seattle, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Chicago, Houston, and Toronto. From these acquisitions, we were also able to select the best talent and add some key positions to form a top-tier management team, who in turn, have been able to integrate and optimize our assets into one highly functioning entity and drive best practices, efficiencies, and grow the Brookfield operating culture across the Enwave platform.

What we had at acquisition was a leading unregulated utility, but one that had unutilized capacity due to the lack of proactive sales culture. We applied structure to sales with targets and goals for organic growth and supplemented the team where needed and rewarded achievements along the way. During our ownership, we have been able to connect over 135 new buildings and grow EBITDA from $26 million in 2012 to over $200 million today on a run rate basis. This is a compound annual growth rate of 21%. 13% of that growth or $150 million of annual EBITDA was driven organically. For those less familiar with infrastructure asset class, this level of growth for a utility is unparalleled, and this was all completed while maintaining an investment-grade rating. Overall, we believe we have generated approximately $3 billion of value.

It is our expectation we will generate a 20%-30% IRR on this investment, materially outperforming the investment return targets of the funds it sits in. This should drive significant returns to our private fund clients, and our BAM shareholders will benefit from the realization of carried interest as these funds wind down in the coming years. Before I wrap up, I would also like to touch on this investment from a sustainability standpoint. Today, Enwave's fleet of energy generation assets within the district energy space are one of the most efficient and cleanest in the world. A few highlights of this include being North America's largest recycler of building waste energy, operating the world's largest commercial deep lake cooling system, and North America's largest heating and cooling thermal batteries.

As well as North America's largest ice battery, which is used for making and storing ice at night when electricity prices are at their lowest, then distributing the chilled water during the day to cool buildings. Together, the energy savings of all these technologies is an annual equivalent energy consumption of 15,000 residential homes. The GHG savings is equivalent to 42 million car miles and savings of 1,100 Olympic-sized pools of water. To wrap up, I will just summarize. This has been a very exciting, high-performing investment for us and a perfect example of Brookfield's investment strategy of identifying high-quality, scalable businesses that have high barriers to entry and benefit from predictable inflation-linked cash flows where we can also drive additional value creation.

Our strategy of identifying early, acquiring, and using our deep operating expertise across a number of adjacent asset classes to integrate sustainable district energy assets across North America allowed us to grow a small local utility into a highly desirable global leader in the district energy space. To achieve that, we essentially commercialized the utility by applying a leasing strategy and promoting the economic and environmental benefits of the sustainable energy it provides. We are very proud of the management team's success in growing Enwave into a best-in-class operator and a global leader in building and growing sustainable district energy. We look forward to our clients and shareholders taking part in its continued success. Thank you. I'll now pass back over to the operator for questions.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time, please press the star followed by the number one key on your touch-tone telephone. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, please press the pound key. Once again, to ask a question, please press star and then one now. Our first question comes from Sohrab Movahedi from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Sohrab Movahedi
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Thank you. Two questions. First, on the reinsurance program, just wanted to confirm that using the American Equity Life reinsurance is a good template for sizing the prize, if you will, in the opportunity over the coming years, both from a leverage and potential return perspective.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

It's Bruce, were you going to ask the second question, or do you want me to take that one?

Sohrab Movahedi
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

That's all right. I can also ask the second question, Bruce, unrelated, would be just in pursuit of trying to ensure that the value at the asset management franchise is fully kind of appreciated and realized. I wonder if you would ever consider distributing any of the BEP or BIP shares to BAM shareholders directly, increase the opportunity for management fees, IDRs, and increase liquidity at BEP and BIP as well. Just those two questions, please.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Here's what I'd say. On the second question, which I think, and if I don't get them exactly right, please follow up, but the question is, would we consider distributing out to the shareholders of BAM shares of Brookfield Infrastructure or Brookfield Renewable Partners? Here's what I'd say. From time to time, we consider many different alternatives in the company which will create value for shareholders. That we've considered in past. We've not done it. A, because there are some shareholders like to own what they own, and we have a tendency to give spin-offs to people, but we can't do too many of them all at once. We'll continue to think about the opportunities we can to create value, and that could be one of them in the future that fits into the plans. We have no intention at this point in time.

As to the size of the reinsurance program, here's the comment I would say, is that given the industry for long-tailed insurance has experienced what they have over the past 10 years, being interest rates coming down, many entities are requiring capital to continue to write policies and don't trade at proper net asset value prices in the marketplace. They require capital, and we think the confluence of us being interested in the business and the counterparties requiring capital, our capital can be a lot more efficient to them than others, than what they would do in the market issuing stock or doing something like that. We think there's a number of opportunities to be able to continue to add on to the business like the transaction that we did recently.

Sohrab Movahedi
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Just for abundance of clarity, Bruce, the half a billion of equity backing up $5 billion-$10 billion of reinsurance liability, that kind of a gearing ratio is what you would kind of contemplate when you're thinking about what you had talked about at the Investor Day, where the insurance opportunity could be upwards of $200 billion of kind of AUM.

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Hey, Sohrab. It's Nick. I would say that's broadly correct. I mean, the amount of capital that you have to hold in reserve is really dictated by where you invest the assets. Based on a reasonable investment portfolio mix, I would say that's a fair starting point.

Sohrab Movahedi
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Cherilyn Radbourne from TD Securities. Your line is open.

Cherilyn Radbourne
Analyst, TD Securities

Thanks very much. Good morning. In terms of the inaugural impact fund, was hoping that you could help us differentiate between the types of renewable investments that it would like to make or would look to make versus the types of renewable investments that you would normally undertake in the flagship infrastructure funds.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. The transition fund will invest into assets which will move the economy towards net zero. It could include renewables, but it could include other industrial businesses and infrastructure assets and other assets which fit that mode. To be able to fit the definitions that are out there, they have to have additionality, meaning that we will develop and create more assets in the future. It'll be much more focused on deploying capital to achieve the transition to net zero. We think that that universe is very large, which could include some assets that might otherwise fit into our renewable program. As you know, in all of our entities, or our listed entities, partner with our private funds, and therefore, in this regard, if it's appropriate, some of those might be partnered with Brookfield Renewable Partners.

Cherilyn Radbourne
Analyst, TD Securities

Okay. That's helpful differentiation. Just picking up on the reinsurance discussion and the advantages that you bring to a partner like American Equity. Is the crux of it your ability to generate higher returns on the asset, or are there any other relevant advantages in areas like capital or tax?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Look, I would put it down to, we have significant access to capital that many organizations don't have access to just because we've spent the last 25 years working with institutional investors. Secondly, our skill set is investing into alternatives. You've heard us say this many times before, alternatives are really the only place for institutions to turn today to deploy capital to get a reasonable return. Because the skills we have and the investing apparatus we've set up can create assets and deploy money into alternatives much more efficiently than others, that's really the advantage that we bring to the table.

Cherilyn Radbourne
Analyst, TD Securities

Thank you. That's my cue.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Bill Katz from Citigroup. Your line is open.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. Thank you very much for taking the questions this morning. Just, Bruce, you'd mentioned that you might be in the market in the early part of next year for the real estate fund. Could you sort of step back a little bit and walk us through the timing that you foresee for the three segments themselves, and how you think about successor funds versus the predecessor funds now in terms of sizing?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Hey, Bill, it's Nick. Yeah, you're right. Obviously, when we launch the next funds is dictated by the pace of deployment of the existing flagship funds. The real estate fund was obviously the first one of the three to be closed, therefore is the most advanced in deployment right now. We've said a few times, we expect it could be back out in the market early next year. I think based on where it is today, that's a reasonable assumption. Then you would expect private equity and infrastructure to follow after that, still expecting them to be at some point next year as well, based on deployment. At the size of our funds, there's really a few variables that go into the funds when we're sizing them.

One would be what we think the deployment opportunity set looks like and our ability to invest that capital while achieving our desired returns. The second would be what we think investor appetite will be for those funds. Then we obviously have a third variable, which is how much the Brookfield commitment will be to each of those funds. I think based on our current expectations, we believe, and we said this at our Investor Day, that there is the definite room for growth in those funds and expect them to still be in line with what we would have laid out in Investor Day and have conviction that we can raise that capital and put it to work for value.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. This is for Nick, maybe I'll stay with you. Just in terms of the FRE margin, given the scaling of the Oaktree footprint and some of the assets they've most recently raised, how to think about maybe the flow-through to your margin outlook as we look into 2021, obviously at the high end of your range in the quarter itself, some maybe transaction activity there, how to think about maybe the incremental margin from here?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. Bill, I think our comments would be largely consistent with prior quarters. Obviously, these funds will get larger, and so that will see potentially an increase. There's offsets. Because the funds get larger, we have to obviously raise more capital, which means reaching out to more clients, servicing more clients, pursuing new channels of distribution. There is obviously a cost buildup of that. We are incubating and building new strategies on balance sheet. We have insurance, technology, transition. Those start smaller, but we build the apparatus for investing and managing that capital up front as well. I think that there is going to be growth. There's obviously positive momentum right now, strong margins this quarter, but I still think of it being in the range we previously talk about as we build out the operations that support it.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Robert Lee from KBW. Your line is open.

Robert Lee
Analyst, KBW

Great. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Maybe sticking with BAM Reinsurance. I guess, frankly, I'm trying to understand some of the reasoning behind doing this spin-out now. I understand the other BEP, BIP, creating the paired securities, the C corps or REITs attracted a broader investor base, which is clearly been evidenced. That's not an issue that I think BAM had. Understanding you're trying to stand up the reinsurance business and invest in it kind of feels. Why now? Particularly since it's just going to be a reflection of BAM's earnings. I guess the second part of that would be the extent you raise future capital for reinsurance, is it all going to be through that vehicle, so therefore its results will start to deviate from BAM's? Is that the way to think of it?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

I'll take the first one, and then Nick can add to it. If I don't hit the answers. I guess it's important for us to set up this entity from the beginning in a proper way, in a proper place, so that it can compete with all the global reinsurance businesses that are in existence. To be able to do that, the most efficient way for us to do it is to set up the entity the way we're setting it up. We considered whether we should actually have it as a spinoff to shareholders, but it's not mature enough yet, and it needs the resources of all of Brookfield to be able to grow for the next two, three, four, five years, possibly forever.

Only at some point in the future when it's more mature would we consider splitting it apart and actually making it a separate security like the infrastructure company or renewable company or property company. For the time being, it'll have the benefits, but it'll be set up in a way such that that could happen. That's quite important to us for the future. That's the answer to the first part of your question. The second, maybe I'll turn it over to Nick to just answer that part.

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah, Rob, I think in its current form, given that it's a paired security transferable back to BAM and the excess value accrues to BAM, any performance or strong performance in there accrues to all shareholders. The business and the unit will perform well, but the BAM shareholders will benefit from that strong performance in this current structure or proposed structure.

Robert Lee
Analyst, KBW

Okay, thanks. Maybe if I could, just one quick follow-up, going back to the fundraising. I apologize if you may have responded to this already in Bill's question, how should we think of your future commitments to the next round of flagship funds? I mean, if we want to make an assumption that maybe they grow in size, that given strong third-party demand, how are you thinking about that?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. I touched on it briefly in the other question. It's one of the variables that goes into our decision-making when we launch a fund. I think we're going to be a significant investor in the funds. As they get larger, the absolute investment will be sizable, but the percentage may come down. I think that we don't have a predetermined level in our minds, but we know that it's going to be part of the decision-making process when we size the fund, again, based on the investment opportunity set, client demand, and Brookfield commitment will be just one of the variables that go into it. I think you can assume we'll continue to be a significant investor, but maybe expect the percentage to come down while the nominal dollars remain material.

Robert Lee
Analyst, KBW

Great. If I'm allowed one last question. It seemed like kind of hinted in the release that maybe the outlook for carry generation is improving. Can you maybe dig into that a little bit, kind of what you're seeing and maybe how we should be thinking of that development as we look ahead to 2021, and which businesses maybe you would expect to be the leaders in that?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah, I think it's just premise. Again, consistent with prior remarks. In this low interest rate environment that we are in and owning a number of businesses that have performed very strongly through the shutdown, and really it's only enhanced the perspective of their resiliency and their performance as we come out of this. There's obviously a lot of capital in this environment looking for inflation protected cash flows like that. We have many businesses that we would've been thinking of taking to market earlier in the year that we paused, and now we're returning to those. We had one transaction we previously announced, a real estate business, a storage business, and we would have others. I obviously don't want to state what they are because they're processes. I think you can start to see more monetizations.

Obviously the public markets are also very supportive right now. We just believe that there will be renewed momentum around dispositions end of this year and coming into next year. That will obviously result in some increased realized carry compared to the last six months.

Robert Lee
Analyst, KBW

Great. Thank you for your patience with my questions. Thanks.

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Mark Rothschild from Canaccord. Your line is open.

Mark Rothschild
Analyst, Canaccord

Thanks. Good morning. You got a little bit active in the buyback subsequent to the quarter, and I'm just curious how much of that was taking advantage of an abnormal drop in the share price versus the thought that you have excess capital that maybe you want to put into buying back shares more aggressively over the next year?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

It's a combination. I would say mainly driven by, as you know, we have excess capital we look to redeploy into the business. When we saw the disconnect really widen, as Bruce said, our value in our view had increased intrinsic value and share price dropped, and that disconnect got wider. That drove the decision in the last sort of period, in the last month specifically. As we look forward, if something like that persists and that deep value pertains, then we'll invest more capital. We do also have a number of other investment opportunities in the business where we can put capital to work. I would say it's just an ongoing decision, and we haven't got any predetermined views for what will happen in the next six to 12 months.

Mark Rothschild
Analyst, Canaccord

Okay, great. Thanks. Maybe just one more question, this was kind of asked earlier. I just want to clarify and make sure I understand. For the impact funds, there clearly could be a lot of overlap with your existing core subsidiaries. Let's say in a property, could BPY or your real estate funds be a co-investor in an impact fund, in an impact investment? Do you expect that this would be totally separate and perhaps the impact funds end up being another public subsidiary at some point?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. At this point in time, to start from the end and go back, at this point in time, we have no intention of having a listed entity for transition. As with all of our private funds, one of our listed entities invests the Brookfield capital into that investment. Some investments for the Transition Fund may be appropriate for Infrastructure or Renewables or Property or our BBU entity. It may be, they would invest our portion of the capital, if not, Brookfield Asset Management would take up that portion. If we were 25% of the money, the 25% may come from any one of those. That's the way all of our funds are today, where one of the entities does. It just so happens that in Property, there's only one listed entity that makes the investments besides our private investors.

Mark Rothschild
Analyst, Canaccord

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Welcome.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Mario Saric from Scotiabank. Your line is open.

Mario Saric
Analyst, Scotiabank

Hi. Thank you. Just getting back to BAM Insurance Partners. I think, Bruce, you mentioned there's a possibility it could be a separate entity down the road when you highlight kind of two to five years in terms of timing, maybe forever. Should we look at historical precedent with respect to your other listed subs in terms of size as a good proxy for when you think that may occur? If I go back and I take a look at BIP, the value was roughly about $1 billion, BBU was about $2, BPY was about $2, and so on. How should we think about kind of the factors that drive that decision and timing in terms of creating a separate entity?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

I don't know. The answer is, we're never too sure until we get into it. I think this entity could be far greater and it needs more access to our resources than the other entities because of all the investments it needs to make. For the time being, it needs to be paired to Brookfield. The real determination will be if very significant amounts of capital are required and we don't have enough capital on the balance sheet of Brookfield, then we'll need to look for one of two places to invest new capital into that. It'll either be private clients of ours to invest in the entity and share that entity with us, or we look to spin it off from Brookfield, and that may be at some point in the future.

Mario Saric
Analyst, Scotiabank

Okay. Thank you for that. My second question just pertains to the transition fund. I think in the letter, it stated an intention for the first private fund in terms of size will be comparable to other private funds. I just wanted to clarify if you were referring to your existing flagship funds, the size of your inaugural flagship funds in each of the verticals or other private funds.

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

We were referring to our flagship funds, and we hope to that, but I don't think I can get into specific numbers just because of the regulatory requirements.

Mario Saric
Analyst, Scotiabank

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Kuske from Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

Andrew Kuske
Analyst, Credit Suisse

Thank you. Good morning. Clearly, your structure is different than most of the other alts that are on the market, and it's giving you a lot of flexibility from a funding standpoint, but also from an investing of BAM capital. You really reallocated capital through the corporate family with some of the buybacks and offering activity in the quarter. How do you think about that embedded optionality that you have from a BAM standpoint, given the array of vehicles that you've got, and then combining that with the private capital and your flagship funds?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. Look, I might start off and then Nick can add to it. Just say that our job as Brookfield Asset Management is to do two things. One, we're running a large-scale asset management business, and second, we're in the business of allocating our capital effectively so that our shareholders can maximize the value out of what they own. That really involves two things. Using the capital we have to support our investment management business and invest beside our clients, and make sure that we can access opportunities for them that they wouldn't otherwise get because of the capital that we have. Secondly, it's making investment decisions when securities are mispriced, and if we understand them possibly better than others or have a view different than others, utilize that mispricing to enhance the value in the long term of the business.

I do think that one of the reasons why our returns over 20, 30 years have been better than some comparable entities is because of the capital allocation and rotation from investment to investment.

Andrew Kuske
Analyst, Credit Suisse

Thank you for that. Obviously today, you have the spin of the reinsurance business. You do have a sizable chunk of the BAM balance sheet still sitting in residential, and you've had vehicles in the past in a few different jurisdictions in the resi space. When do you anticipate, or when are the market conditions appropriate to really spin that off of your balance sheet?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

Home builders today are the flavor of the last six months. They've been highly successful. They've all doubled, tripled, quadrupled in value. Of course, ours has done really well. You don't see that necessarily because it's private and it's on our balance sheet and not listed. I would say that our experience over a 25-year period or more of loaning home builders or land developers and home builders is they don't exactly trade in the public market perfectly most of the time. They happen to be doing that today. For that reason, I'm not sure we have any intention of doing it. It may be better for us if we want to have less capital invested in the business over time, just to reallocate capital, because this is a depleting business if you don't reinvest into it. From time to time, I think we'll just do it that way versus listing it.

Andrew Kuske
Analyst, Credit Suisse

Okay. That's great. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Ken Worthington from JPMorgan. Line is open.

Ken Worthington
Analyst, JPMorgan

Hi. Thank you. Most of the questions have been asked. Maybe just to follow up on the flavor of the day, which is reinsurance. Maybe talk about the assets or contracts that are included in the new reinsurance entity when it is spun off to shareholders. I don't think you went through that. Maybe I missed it. Does that include the insurance contracts, the reinsurance assets? Does it include the 20% interest in AEL? Do Brookfield Reinsurance shareholders get voting rights in the new entity, or is the vote sort of retained by Brookfield? Lastly, I think this follows up on another question earlier. Will the reinsurance entity need to raise equity to support the initial growth, or is Brookfield going to capitalize it well enough to support its growth over the next couple of years or so? Thank you.

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

Yeah. Ken, there was a lot of parts to that question. If I don't get them all, then please prompt me. I think we're still working through what will be there, but the intention is it will house all of the insurance assets that we have. The initial stake in AEL. As Bruce said, we also have some other insurance entities that we've deeded on balance sheet. The way we see this working is obviously that it will have those investments, it will have reinsurance trades on its balance sheet. As we touched on the earlier question, the way that we're looking to differentiate and earn strong returns is by putting that capital to work in our investment strategies, predominantly credit.

That means when that capital is invested into our strategies, the resulting fee-bearing capital and fee-related earnings would flow through our asset management business, and they would be investing alongside other clients that we have in those strategies, paying the same fees and rates as those. I would say that's a secondary focus. The primary focus is that when we do these reinsurance transactions, we want to make sure that we are investing capital for value in this business, so that we're comfortable with the net return that we can earn on any reinsurance transaction. Obviously a consequence of that will be that when we put the capital to work, there will be a resulting growth in fee-bearing capital and fee-related earnings over time. I don't know if that answered all parts of your question.

Ken Worthington
Analyst, JPMorgan

Most. The voting rights, do Brookfield Reinsurance shareholders actually get a vote here in the new entity, or is that just sort of delayed until the stock is unpaired? Equity issuance, is this the vehicle that's going to raise equity, or is equity raised through BAM and sort of transferred to the insurance vehicle? How does the capital raising actually work here?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

To start, I'll answer it in reverse order. Starting off, the capital will be seeded into the entity and $500 million will be spun out to shareholders. The balance of the equity will be provided by BAM, and to the extent it needs more money, BAM will put more money into the entity, and there'll be no further shares of that entity issued other than if we choose to. Remember, even if we do issue shares out of that, they're really just a BAM share. While we're buying shares back in Brookfield Asset Management, I suspect we're never going to issue a share in Brookfield Reinsurance because they're a paired share. You'd be issuing in one place and buying back in another. The equity will be provided by Brookfield as a first step. Secondly, to answer your first question.

On the voting rights, the structure will be the exact same as it is in Brookfield Asset Management. All shareholders will get voting rights like they do today. They'll have the same rights they have in Brookfield Asset Management. They'll have the same rights they have in Brookfield Reinsurance.

Ken Worthington
Analyst, JPMorgan

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. Again, ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and then one now. Our next question comes from Bill Katz with Citigroup. Your line is open.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay, thank you for taking the follow-up questions. Just going back to the transition fund for a moment. Bruce, in your letter, you mentioned that you could foresee this being a $50 billion-$100 billion opportunity over time. What are your expectations for the scaling of that, and how will the economics of a fund like this compare to, let's say, your flagship funds?

Bruce Flatt
CEO, Brookfield Asset Management

I think it'll be the second question first. It'll be similar to our flagship funds. We think that this business can be very large as we create a new asset class for institutional investors. The reason why we're coming out with it, and the reason why Mark joined us is we think that there is a very large group of investors who want to put money into the transition of the economy, and there's not very many alternatives for them to do that. As a result of that, if we can create a fund offering from them with all the discipline and access to what we have within Brookfield, we'll have a number of people that will want to invest with us. There's not many other alternatives at this point in time.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. Just one last one. Just going back to reinsurance, and again, thanks for taking all those questions. Is there an opportunity here as you scale the business to maybe broaden out the fee-related earnings stream to an advisory opportunity beyond simply just picking up some incremental spread and then the corresponding FRE associated with that?

Nick Goodman
CFO, Brookfield Asset Management

We'll see over time, Bill. That's not where our heads are at right now. The focus right now is about investing the capital that we'll be raising, and earning strong returns on that invested capital. As I said, the direct consequence of that will be fee-bearing capital and fee-related earnings. We haven't turned our minds to advisory fees.

Bill Katz
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. Thank you for taking all the questions.

Operator

Thank you. I am showing no further questions from our phone lines. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Suzanne Fleming for any closing remarks.

Suzanne Fleming
Global Head of Corporate Communications and Brand, Brookfield Asset Management

Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining us today. With that, we will end the call.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a wonderful day.