Dundee Corporation (TSX:DC.A)
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4.230
-0.190 (-4.30%)
At close: Apr 28, 2026
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Earnings Call: Q1 2022

May 12, 2022

Operator

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Dundee Corporation First Quarter 2022 Results Conference Call. Listeners are reminded that certain matters discussed in today's conference call or answers that may be given to questions asked could constitute forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties relating to Dundee Corporation's future financial or business performance. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in these forward-looking statements. The risk factors that may affect results are detailed in Dundee Corporation's 2021 annual information form and other periodic filings. You can access these documents under the company's profile at www.sedar.com. I'd like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded today, Thursday, May 12, 2022. On this call, management of Dundee Corporation will be quoting dollar figures. All figures are in Canadian dollars unless otherwise noted.

Participating on this call will be Jonathan Goodman, President and CEO of Dundee Corporation, and Lila A. Murphy, Executive Vice President and CFO of Dundee Corporation. At this time, I would now like to introduce Mr. Jonathan Goodman to provide an update on the quarter. Please go ahead, Mr. Goodman.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Thank you, operator. I think we're gonna change up the strategy of the call a little bit this call, in that some of the feedback that we got is shows you'd like to learn more about strategy and where we're heading. I'm gonna try and cover that, and then I will turn it over to Lila A. Murphy, who will cover the obviously the financial statements. Lila A. Murphy, our Executive Vice President and CFO, and as well as some of the progress we've made on some of the other strategic objectives in the quarter. To start with, you know, as a mining investment team, in our firm, we have over 12 mining investment professionals, and these professionals have different areas of expertise.

We've got people who have expertise in geology, people who are experts in mining, metallurgy. We have people who are experts in environmental sciences, finance, projects, construction, investment banking, investing. We have people on our team who have operated mines. We have people who have run mining companies, and we have people who have built mines. Our investment style is more conducive to being like in a corporate development style. As you would see on many actual mining companies, they've got corporate development departments. We tend to operate like that. When we look at a company or a business, and we usually sign an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement or a confidentiality agreement. With that, we then look at the data that the company has.

In most cases, we download the data, we deconstruct that data, and then we reconstruct the project using, in many cases, what are more conservative assumptions. It is this process which gives us the ability and conviction to be able to take larger positions in illiquid companies. In many cases, as we make our investments, we also ask for a board seat. With that, we share all of the work we've done with the companies. We try to use the vast experience of our team to help these companies deliver better outcomes. You know, I guess the joke I always make, if there's a mistake that we've made in our past, we have the ability to warn them not to make that same mistake.

I wanna share with you some of the thinking and thought processes, the Big River gold story, and how that's evolved. When we did our work on Big River, this is several years ago, the first thing we noted was that they had planned to mine about one-third of their 2.4 million ounce stated resource, which obviously we thought that was quite low, and we thought there was potential opportunity to, at some point expand the mine and expand the project. I apologize for the background noise, but Mr. DeGoes, who delivered to us the money package, is with his dog barking. We recognize that there's opportunity down the road, hopefully, to potentially expand this mine.

We did feel that originally looking at it as a 2 million pound a year operation was a very conservative compared to the size of the resource. We also thought that the capital cost that they had used, that they're estimating to build the mine was too low. That said, we did like the ore body, and we wanted them.

We made the investment, and we asked Adrian Goldstone, who's one of our very valued team members, to go on the Big River board. Our goal there was for Adrian to be able to introduce the company to some of the independent engineering groups that we've worked with over the years and that we, you know, we know where their A-teams are, so that the company can go out and get more reliable estimates and eventually put out what we hope would be a better study. On April first of this year, Big River put out a press release updating the cost of their feasibility study. You know, these are their numbers, of course, from their press release.

You know, their project, as stated, had an internal rate of return of 29% at $1,700 gold and an NPV, an after-tax NPV of $217 million. As we moved on, over the course of time, we were approached by Aura Minerals, who is a company that has Brazilian assets, and their senior management of the company are Brazilian. They thought the company would be a good fit. You know, we noted that with them that we really did like the project, and we were 20% shareholder, I guess about 19 and change is what we own, and that we would like to remain around the 20% level. We were happy for them to buy the other 80% of the project.

We spent a lot of time with the management and also met with the chair of Aura's board. As we got to know them, we realized that they were an excellent company and that we thought they would make an excellent partner in the project. We noted that not only did we feel that our interests were potentially aligned, we also felt that there was a shared set of values there. Truly, we were very much looking forward to partnering with Aura on this deal. More importantly, as this mine gets built, and I think the first step we're gonna do once Aura buys it, is work with Aura to redo a study to get numbers that we all you know buy into.

Hopefully then work with them to build a mine. That will provide a very excellent stream of cash flows to Dundee Corporation. More importantly, we think that this model is replicable, and we intend to pursue more deals like this. As investors, we know that, you know, if you read the research, you know, junior mining stocks tend to trade at somewhere between 10%-30% of the ultimate NPV. Often we all know that those NPVs turn out to be wrong. Our strategy is if we can do our homework and really do the work, there's several ways to get NPV out of a project.

The historical way, which was always to sell the project because junior mining stocks or mines tend to trade historically around NPV, and for most of my career, they traded at premiums to NPV. They traded premiums because they're probably worth, in most cases, in many cases, premiums to NPV. That is when you look at a mine, very often, you know, I'll give you an example of the mine when I was at Dundee Precious Metals. Our mine at Chelopech, when we bought it, had about seven or eight years of reserve life. Today, which we bought it in 2003, so 19 years ago, and today it still has, I believe, somewhere around 10-12 years of reserve life. Mines, we mined it for 19 years.

Mines often can go much longer than that initial resource or reserve life that we develop these fancy models that call them that. There are reasons. The other way of getting it is if you can't sell it, and we're in a market where you can't sell it, is to actually be part of the team that builds the project and owns the project and get that stream of cash flows, which is the component that makes up the NPV. From our perspective, that's not only a strategy we like to pursue, it's also a strategy of a reward as well, as we move forward. Of course, the goal is to make sure we continue to dot our i's and cross our t's and do our job right. That's kind of the outline of the strategy part.

I'm gonna hand it over to Lila now to talk about the quarter. Lila?

Lila A. Murphy
EVP and CFO, Dundee Corporation

Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning. After that very fulsome update on our corporate vision and strategy, I would like to now give you a financial overview, for this past quarter for the company. Before I do that, I would like to congratulate the Dundee team for a quarter of solid investment success. I am very pleased that we have begun to rebuild our capital base through prudence and well-researched investments, particularly within the context of a very uncertain global backdrop. Dundee Corporation incurred a pre-tax profit of CAD 31.1 million in the first quarter of 2022, that is compared to a loss of CAD 19.7 million in the first quarter of 2021.

As I mentioned, the key driver this quarter was a CAD 46.6 million gain in our consolidated investment portfolio. The company generated consolidated revenues of CAD 3.8 million, compared to CAD 5.3 million in the first quarter of 2021. The market value of our publicly traded securities increased to CAD 170.3 million as of March 31, 2022, from CAD 113 million at December 31, 2021, representing almost a 50% increase quarter-over-quarter. Net income from our portfolio investments excluding GCIC was CAD 45.7 million in Q1 2022, and that compares to a loss of CAD 11.1 million in the first quarter of 2021. The notable positive performance.

During the first quarter of 2022, the company invested CAD 19.5 million in new and existing positions in its corporate portfolio. The net gain from investments during the first quarter of 2022 includes CAD 1.8 million in dividends and interest income distributed from our portfolio investments, compared to CAD 700 thousand a year ago. Turning to our operating subsidiary performance for the quarter, Goodman & Company, Investment Counsel Inc, or GCIC, assets under management increased from CAD 57.9 million in Q4 2021 to CAD 64 million in Q1 2022. During the first three months of 2022, GCIC raised net capital of CAD 13.2 million from launching a new tax-assisted limited partnership, the CMP 2022 Resource Limited Partnership.

Redemptions of AUM during the same period of 2022 were CAD 7.2 million. During the first quarter of 2022, this segment recognized a pre-tax loss of CAD 323 thousand compared to pre-tax earnings of CAD 159 thousand in the year ago period. Blue Goose incurred a pre-tax loss of CAD 28 thousand from continuing operations. As a reminder, the Blue Goose beef division was sold in 2021 for aggregate proceeds over two transactions of over CAD 70 million. CAD 2 million was received in Q3 of 2021, and around CAD 63 million was received in Q4 of 2021. In the quarter, we settled the cattle holdback for proceeds of CAD 2.3 million. Turning now to UHIC.

UHIC reported a pre-tax loss of CAD 300 thousand in Q1 of 2022, as compared to CAD 9.8 million in Q1 of 2021. As you will recall, last quarter, we reduced the carrying value of both the royalty and the contingency payment to zero. Despite rising oil prices, the environment in Chad remains very, very uncertain. The company's carrying value of its 84% interest in UHIC is approximately CAD 3.2 million as of March 31st of 2021. Dundee Sustainable Technologies incurred a pre-tax loss of CAD 700 thousand in the first quarter of 2022 compared to a loss of CAD 800 thousand in the first quarter of 2021. First quarter 2022 revenue for DST was CAD 1.1 million, which increased from CAD 700 thousand in the prior year period.

AgriMarine reported a pre-tax net loss of CAD 1.1 million in the first quarter on sales revenues of CAD 1.3 million, which compares to a loss of CAD 900 thousand and CAD 1.5 million, respectively, in Q1 2021. During the first quarter of 2022, Dundee 360 generated pre-tax earnings of CAD 500 thousand, compared to CAD 67 thousand in the year ago period. Now for a bit of a head office summary. The first quarter of 2022, consolidated G&A, which includes all of our subsidiary G&A, inclusive of stock-based compensation, was CAD 6.1 million, compared to CAD 6.7 million continuing operations a year ago. We know we have a lot more work to do here, but we are continuing to make progress.

Head Office G&A, excluding stock-based compensation for Q1 of 2022, was CAD 2.7 million compared to CAD 3 million in Q1 of 2021, year- over- year. We ended the quarter in a very solid liquidity position. At quarter end, we had CAD 76.2 million in consolidated cash versus CAD 93.9 million at the end of Q4 of 2021. We received correspondence from the CRA, which maintains the audit reassessment, and we are preparing a response to the appeals division. We continue to have CAD 13.8 million on deposit regarding the 2014 to 2016 tax years. This amount is separately disclosed on our balance sheet as deposit with taxation authority. That concludes my comments. Back to you, Jonathan.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Well, thank you very much, Lila. Once again, I'd like to thank all of our employees for the hard work for the quarter, and with us still in a pandemic rate environment, which seems to be the new normal. I'd like to take this time to open it up for questions.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, please press the star followed by the number two. One moment please, for your first question. Your first question comes from Brett Reiss of Janney Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Hi, Jonathan. Hi, Lila.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Hi, Brett.

Lila A. Murphy
EVP and CFO, Dundee Corporation

Good morning. Good morning, Brett.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Good morning. You know, with interest rates moving up in the United States, has that created an opportunity to, you know, maybe buy back some of the preferreds, you know, at a bigger discount? Right.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Well, I mean, they're not really trading at a bigger discount yet, so it's, you know, we're still doing a lot of work, Brett Reese, on what our capital needs are going to be with the strategy that I just discussed. We have an issue a bit, and we certainly do look at it and talk about it a lot. Before we step forward and buy either common shares or pref shares back, we're doing a lot of work with our board right now on making sure that we have enough capital to meet our needs.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Now we still-

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

We think we do, but we just wanna finish that ex-

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Do we still have the investment in Android Industries?

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Yes, we do.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

With the new normal that supply chains maybe wanna come closer to home and this business with moving more to electric cars, are those headwinds or tailwinds for the value of our Android investment?

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Lila, do you wanna take a stab at that, or should I?

Lila A. Murphy
EVP and CFO, Dundee Corporation

I can take that question, sure. You know, I think the answer is a bit of a mixed picture. EV is certainly a tailwind for the company. The company does partake in that business. I think near term, the supply chain is certainly a challenge. I think the flip side of that is, you know, significant future growth opportunities and a bit of a hockey stick of growth for the company going forward, because there is a great deal of pent-up demand in the auto market for new cars. We remain even though Android, we consider it to be non-core, we remain extremely constructive about the company's prospects going forward.

They have done a fantastic job of managing the things that are within their control, and they've had a very good 2021.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. One last one. Jonathan, there's a lot of buzz about companies trying to develop lithium carbonate. Is that something you've looked at as a potential opportunity for the company or is it, you know, smoke and mirrors?

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Well, I wouldn't suggest it's smoke and mirrors. I mean, lithium is a very much a key component in the batteries that goes into a Tesla or an electric car. You know, but let's recognize that, you know, over the course of my career, which is, you know, pushing 33 years of doing this, lithium is still a little different than a lot of other commodities. From our point of view, when you look at the. You know, Elon Musk was once quoted as saying, "I don't know why they call it the lithium battery. There's a lot more nickel in it than lithium." And nickel is a base metal, which we're much more comfortable with.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Right.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Because it tends. Rather than, you know, it's definitely not smoke and mirrors, but we're, you know, we don't have a lot of experience on lithium. Before we would do something, we would spend a lot of time learning. Trying to get some experience, trying to understand more about how it's mined, the pros, the cons, et cetera. The way we've attacked the battery metal world is more through traditional base metals. We own an interest in a company called Centaurus Metals, which is developing a very exciting nickel project in Brazil, and that nickel is gonna go right into the same batteries beside the lithium. It's much more traditional in the way it's mined.

Traditional, I mean, they mine it by ways that we're very comfortable with and can bring some expertise to the table. We also own a little junior company called Magna Mining, which is developing a nickel, cobalt, platinum, palladium and copper project called the Shakespeare Project in the Sudbury area, which is a very prolific belt of rocks. We also have an investment in a company called SPC, Sudbury Platinum Corporation. I think that we've chosen to attack the battery metal through the parts of it that we already know very well.

Brett Reiss
SVP and Financial Advisor, Janney Montgomery Scott

Great. Thank you for answering my questions.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

My pleasure.

Lila A. Murphy
EVP and CFO, Dundee Corporation

Thanks, Bud.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back to Mr. Jonathan Goodman for closing remarks.

Jonathan Goodman
President, CEO, and Director, Dundee Corporation

Well, I wanna thank everyone for participating and look forward to talking to you next quarter. Thank you very much.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the conference call for this morning. We would like to thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

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