RBC Capital Markets Canadian Bank CEO Conference

Jan 8, 2019

Just do a very brief introduction for those who are listening on the webcast. My name is Darko Mihelic. I am the research analyst here in Toronto. I cover the large cap Canadian bank space. I would like to formally welcome you all to the 2019 RBC Canadian Bank CEO Conference. Thank you all for coming. I would like to thank those of you actually who participated in last night's tech demo as well. It was pretty cool. Saw six banks come up here and provide pretty interesting demonstrations on some technologies that they are working on. I thought the event was very interesting. I actually learned a few things last night. I had no idea what was going on with some of these technologies in the background. It was quite fun to have everybody here. For today, the presentations will be conversational fireside chat format, with the opportunity for questions from the audience. As I said, I do hope to end my session a bit early so that we can ask the most popular questions posed by the audience. During my fireside chats, I will not provide a big flowery introduction. The idea here is that the speaker biographies are available on the tables in front of you if you want to read up on each CEO. Our intent is to try and get as much questions and content into the short time we have with each CEO. Without further ado, let us start our first fireside chat. I would like to welcome Dave McKay, CEO of RBC Financial Group, to the stage. Good morning. Good morning. Happy New Year. Good morning, everyone. Well, thanks for participating. That was efficient. Yeah. Just get to the point, and we'll get some questions in here if we can. Yeah. I think what we might want to do for these fireside chats today is, given the extreme volatility we saw in the markets towards the end of last year, I think what I might want to do is just start off with a question on that. Very volatile markets. Looks like interest rate hikes now are up in the air, whether or not they happen. The question, I'll just throw it open to you, leave it a little bit open, is how does that market volatility affect RBC, and how do you think 2019 can play out as a result of what we're seeing so far in the markets? Yeah, sure. I figured we'd start there. I think I saw a quote yesterday from Larry Summers that said the stock market's been great at predicting nine of the last five recessions. I think everybody had a good holiday and came back and took a big breath. I think we're off to a better start this year. But if you look at the economy from GDP growth to business formation, business investment, foreign direct investment, jobs. Granted, the PMI index is down. Manufacturing index is down a bit. Certainly, the non-manufacturing index is solid. Business confidence relatively solid, down a bit in Europe, but certainly Canada, the U.S. hanging in there. So we're seeing growth, 1.5, 1.7 in Canada, 2.5 United States, 1.7, 1.8-ish in Europe, and we're investing for that growth. I think the markets have taken a pause now and have come back and seen that things are pretty solid fundamentals. Some of the tonality and comments out of the Federal Reserve and central banks has helped settle things down. Trade negotiations in China. I think very strong job numbers. I think we have come out of a difficult December, getting back to the fundamentals and trying to look through some of the volatility out there and uncertainty back to the fundamentals. We are seeing strong fundamentals, and I think that bodes well for growth this year, and we have been investing in that growth. Generally, other than the market volatility, which does impact our business, we are feeling pretty good about things. We are seeing strong growth in our commercial loan book. We are seeing strong growth in our corporate capital markets loan book. We are seeing strong underwriting demand. We are active clients, and that is kind of carried through. Certainly, our clients are impacted by volatility. I do not think we saw any high yield issuance in the month of December, which is quite interesting. Obviously, you would expect equity origination to be off in underwriting. I think volatility does impact part of the business, but the core kind of commercial consumer franchise, U.S. franchise is strong. At this stage it is too early to say that there would be an impact on your outlook for 2019 earnings. You would not stray from what you talked about in Q4? I think as you mentioned off the top, as we think about expecting central bank rate increases, the market is priced in none for Canada, none for the U.S. It is hard to see forward. I think central banks still are under some pressure to get rates up to have kind of monetary stimulus in the next cycle. There is that counterbalance. But they are going to be data-driven. They are going to watch the economy. I think that was the messaging. But I already think the Fed under Powell was messaging that he is going to be data-driven. He is going to watch. I just think he repackaged that message in some way. I do not think it is a big change in tonality. I think the market heard it very differently and took a big breath when they did hear that he is going to watch carefully. He's not steadfast in moving things up to give himself greater tools in the next cycle. That will have If we don't see rate increases, we're still thinking on the retail side that we're staying with our range of 1-2 basis points per quarter in Canada. It may be closer to 1 than 2 if we don't see any rate increases. You certainly see from previous rate increases from the Bank of Canada, as we reinvest those deposits into higher rate assets, we're going to see a continuation of margin expansion just from what we've already seen in the past. We're still range bound to that 1-2, so I don't think we're changing that guidance. United States, with no rate increases, will have some impact. We saw 40 plus, I think, basis points last year. It may come off that, but you will see certainly margin expansion in the United States, particularly in the first quarter, based on what's already happened as we reinvest our deposit base, our loan deposit base into new assets and lend. It may be a little more muted, but you'll still see expansionary kind of margins, we think, albeit a very competitive marketplace. You mentioned in your commentary, as we opened this up, that you've got a pretty strong outlook for commercial growth. Yeah. Astonishingly double digit we've seen now in Canada for quite some time, at least. Yeah. Maybe you can talk to what's driving that growth and is now. The question I often get from investors is it seems like late cycle. Is now the time to be Yeah growing a commercial book as strong as you are? Fair question. Absolutely. Part of it is that we lagged the market for a couple of years in our commercial business growth, both on the CRE side and on the traditional agriculture, logistics, manufacturing side. We did lag the market and gave back some share. Part of it for us is the growth we've seen in our sales force and getting back in the game, being more competitive than we were in the past. As I break down that growth, 45% of the growth in the past year did come from commercial real estate, and 55% came from traditional commercial industries. But it's really quality growth. The majority of that growth on the CRE side came from existing clients. It's not like we're out there acquiring clients that we don't know, but more often, we're serving existing clients. If you look at our CRE book, just to give you a waterfall, I like to use this event to give a waterfall. Here's how our commercial real estate book breaks down. Roughly CAD 27 billion of loans, of which CAD 17 billion of our CRE is in commercial real estate. And we look at the experience of that commercial real estate with the LTVs that we have and how we look at lending into that marketplace. Almost 60% of that CAD 17 billion has a loan-to-value less than 65%. Our experience in that book over the last 20 years is less than CAD 20 million of losses. So we have great experience lending into that market. It's performed exceptionally well. It's less than a basis point of loss. LTVs are good. We're looking at cash flows. So strong. You see the vacancy rates are low. Other than Alberta, Calgary, and Edmonton, where I think we have around CAD 1.5 billion of that 17, a small number, markets are really strong across the country, and we expect that experience that we've seen over the last 20 years to hold. That's 17 to the 27. It's not all real estate development. That's the next piece. The remaining CAD 10 billion of that CAD 27 billion is a combination of development lending. Roughly six of that 10 is into residential high-rise construction financing. CAD 3 billion of that condo. Pre-sold, strong demand, low vacancy rates, good household formation, strong immigration into the country, greater immigration numbers. The characteristics of that book haven't changed, and we haven't changed our risk standards, and only CAD 3 billion of that is condos. That's how you waterfall it. 27, built 17 on commercial mortgage, 10 on construction financing. Only six of that 10 is into high-rise residential, of which three is condo. Therefore, the characteristics we've seen over cycles have not changed. We haven't changed our lending standards, and therefore, for us, it was a little bit of catch-up. We were out of the market for a while. We've accelerated some of that growth with our new commercial offices, but that's how we waterfall it. It's a conservative book that's performed very well over time. It's not like we're out there bringing in a ton of new customers that we don't know. It's largely serving our existing customer franchises who are active in the market, who see demand. The pipeline is still strong. These very same customers are suggesting to you that, hey, 2019 is looking to be shaping up to be a similar year or- I think you'll see a slowing- Okay of that type of growth, for sure. Certainly, it is active, but you will see it start to slow. That is a lot of growth. We are sensing with the uncertainty out there that some projects are pausing. But net, it is quality growth, and we will continue to look for that quality growth because we lend through a cycle. We are not trying to time a cycle. We think about projects and customers through a cycle, whether it is the consumer side of the business, commercial capital markets side of the business. We are thinking about long-term customer relationships, and we do not try to time the market. Our lending standards are designed, and risk appetite is designed to produce our target ROEs through a cycle. Sticking with the loan growth and sort of expectations, one of the other areas that I often get asked a lot about with RBC would be leveraged lending. Could you provide any sort of commentary or color on leveraged lending and whether or not that really sets RBC apart from other Canadian peers? It is hard to tell because the definition of leveraged lending varies drastically across the market. It could be an investment-grade corporate that has a certain target, a certain leverage ratio that exceeds a threshold you set internally, and you call it a leveraged loan. The regulator has a definition for a leveraged loan. So it is a very broad category of a wide range of risks. I am hesitant to lump our definition out there and say you are comparing apples to apples, because you will not be. So we have to be very careful about putting numbers. I think we have to segment that portfolio into adjusted leverage, non-investment grade leverage, and we are very comfortable. Our strategy in the leveraged lending market has been consistent for a decade now. We have not gained share. We still rank kind of 10th in leveraged lending. Our market share is around 4%. We don't aspire to do a whole lot more than that. I think we're looking for quality deals. It's good flow for us. It's good business. It comes with a certain amount of advisory fees and underwriting fees. So it's good ROE business for, and helps us drive the 13% ROE that you see in the portfolio. We don't sense it's off what our core competitive comparator group is doing. So when we look at that, we're relatively similar in our market share and our appetite. We're not upscaling this business. It's designed to have low holds. So we scale our holds from triple B down to double B into single B if we're doing it. We look at covenants and structure differently. Certainly security, super senior secured. You've got borrowing bases against some of the industry, particularly on the energy side. As we walk through that book, we keep our holds down, we keep our underwritings to shorter duration, and we diversify across industries. So you don't have the lumpiness in that portfolio. So it's well-diversified, which is really important, with smaller holds, with structuring and fees and returns that make it an attractive business for us. I think from that perspective, I think we've been consistent, and I think our market share shows that. There's some players in the market that have significantly increased their market share, and we're not one of them. Maybe switching gears, looking at the retail side of the business just for a moment. One of the things that we noticed in 2018 was your credit card balances were up quite a bit, about 7.8%. That would be at the top end of what your peer group put up. Maybe you can speak a little bit about the growth in the credit card book, the risk characteristics, and what it is that's giving you perhaps the edge in terms of growing credit cards and specifically in speaking about Canada, right? This is a very conscious strategy to take share. This is an incredibly attractive business for two reasons, high ROE and a source of data and information and insight into the customer as part of our core payments business. So taking share and building out our loyalty capabilities, which we think is the driver of taking share in a card marketplace, has been an important part of our strategy for the past 5-10 years. I think with the instability of a couple of our core loyalty competitors out there, we've been able to take share. The number one performing product for us right now is the RBC WestJet co-brand product. It's up over 30%, capitalizing on the uncertainty of two of our significant competitors in the travel loyalty space. Travel loyalty still is the primary driver of loyalty in Canada. You're seeing increasingly everyday loyalty like our Petro-Canada offer and cashback growing in stature. But travel loyalty still drives Canadians. So with our two core products of RBC WestJet and RBC Avion, we meet what we think is two out of the three core pillars of needs of Canadians. You're seeing a trifurcation of the travel loyalty marketplace in Canada, which used to have a bifurcation. The trifurcation for the first time is you've got WestJet that's offering aspirational short and long haul for the first time on brand-new planes with lounges and business class and first class that was never in the marketplace to redeem. So you've got a full-fledged competitor to Air Canada on the loyalty space for the first time ever, and that's going to start to separate Canadians. They've never had choice in aspirational long haul in their loyalty program. If you wanted that uniquely, you went to Air Canada or you went to a product like Avion that gave you choice between Air Canada, British Airways. So what's going to happen in Canada is WestJet's going to carve off a big slice of the market that was Air Canada will have their piece, though diminished, and there'll be a greater piece in the middle who want choice. I don't want to lock in Air Canada. I don't want to lock into WestJet. I'll choose a product like Avion that gives me the flexibility between the two. So for us, we'll be able to capture two-thirds of that, and that's a much larger marketplace than we think we've competed for before. That's driving the outsized results, that we have very competitive products in a market where customers are looking for different solutions. That's going to be enhanced as we roll out Ampli and we start to attract more customers into an everyday loyalty program. Therefore, we're really excited about our payment space and our loyalty space. We think we've got those three pillars of travel, Avion, optionality, WestJet travel, and then Ampli enable us to really accelerate our value that we're creating for customers and our competitiveness, and it's an important space. The payments, core checking, payments, credit card, debit card are really important competitive spaces for profitability because they're profitable products, but for data and insight and customer relevancy and connectivity. Despite where we are in the economic cycle, you want to grow that book anyway. I mean, the credit characteristics Yeah of this book are such that. With the ROEs and margins that you earned, our credit card loss rates last year were roughly, what, 2.5% plus or minus maybe 10, 15. I usually have that down by the basis point, but roughly 2.5. Margins are well in excess of that. So there is room to take risk and get really strong double-digit ROEs, if not 20-plus percent ROE. So we can take more risk, and that product performs through a cycle. We know the volatility of an unsecured credit card. I think I have managed through three recessions now in our credit card book, directly and indirectly managing it. And roughly the volatility of an unsecured credit card is about 50%. If you go into a down cycle with a 3% loss rate, you can expect at the bottom of the cycle to run about 4.5, but your margins cover that still at 2 to 1. So even if you are wrong by 50%, you still have almost two times coverage. So it is a very attractive product for us to lend to, and the data has increasing value to us, therefore, we are willing to pay. So for us, this is a core competitive area that we are very happy with the current momentum we have and continuing that momentum. Sticking with Canada consumer, last year we had B20 come in. We had some rate increases. We saw mortgage growth soften a little bit. What is your outlook for 2019 on the mortgage side? Yes, certainly, I think with five-year rates kind of backing off a bit, as 10-year rates are backing off, we will see as we review our pricing in the marketplace and think about that. I think there could be a little bit of pressure alleviated on the term side of the mortgage business, what might help a bit. You are seeing still strong demand out there, and relatively healthy prices. I would say that we competed poorly in 2017 and 2018 in the mortgage space. We lost market share. Of all the businesses that I would say we were disappointed in how we performed, it was the mortgage business. Irrespective of where the market is, I would think you will expect RBC to perform better and gain some share there as we have really amped up our focus on where our deficiencies were in our sales force and in our product and our pricing, then we will come at it really hard. We are not just starting this. I think you saw us ramp up in the fall a little bit on our competitiveness. I would say we were disappointed in our performance, and you will see us perform better in a market that should be in the sub 5% growth area, for sure. Also, I would say margins were challenged in the mortgage business in 2018. It was super competitive, and you are also in a mortgage business, particularly the fixed rate mortgage business, lending into a rising rate environment is challenging. You make a 90-day commitment. You hold that commitment. If you're funding at the end of a 90-day commitment period and rates have moved, you're funding at a higher rate than you've got a fixed commitment to the customer. So you're funding into a rising rate environment compresses margins. I think hopefully, if rates aren't moving up, and if you see them back off the way they did, we may be able to recapture some margin. You saw that in our Q4 comments. Some of the margin expansion that we would've expected from a rising rate environment was offset by a very competitive mortgage market where we funded into a rising rate environment. I think those help us competitively and from a pricing margin perspective going into 2019, a little bit. You touched on funding. May, depending on the marketplace. You touched on funding. Yeah. Let's talk about the deposit side of the equation, because we've seen a little bit of competition creep up in deposits. Yeah, for sure. What's your outlook for that in 2019? Do you think that it's potentially something that could squeeze margins going forward? Yeah. I would say along with mortgages, deposit funding has been a very competitive marketplace. Partly because we saw throughout most of the first three quarters of 2018, we saw customers move funds on balance sheet to off balance sheet investments. When we look at the total pie that we capture between core checking, savings, and retail investment flow, we captured a significant amount of market share. A lot of that did move from on balance sheet core checking and savings into investments. You saw that flip in the month of December, where there was a net outflow back. And therefore, some of that on balance sheet funding may come from investors who are spooked by the volatility and move some of their funding back into their savings accounts, and that will help us fund loan growth, albeit, there is going to be a bit of a margin impact as we move out of some of our investment flow. So funding can be alleviated there. And we are certainly, our investments in core checking and payments and Ampli are all designed to help our core checking funding grow along with the data management on that side. And being competitive on the savings side is really important when your high interest savings account, your brokered accounts, your GICs, as we saw customers move in and out of that product. Net-net, when we put our core checking and our GIC savings together, we performed well. We will continue to focus on those two combinations, savings and checking together, and then bring in investments. So I am not sure what retail investors are going to do. We will watch carefully over January, February, but we certainly saw outflows out of our funds, as you would expect, back onto our balance sheet. And that is a funding source. And having the largest investment business gives us that opportunity, albeit at a margin impact to bring some of that funding back on balance sheet. A big theme in the marketplace for the Canadian banks has been efficiency. Yep. And when we look at RBC, what we have seen is a pretty big ramp in technology spend, efficiency savings elsewhere. Can you touch on what your view is for 2019? Maybe touch a little bit on sort of how you have ramped out of 2018 and into 2019 on the expense side and the efficiency, the whole efficiency theme. Yeah. Notwithstanding some of the uncertainty around rate increases and margins, we're still targeting a 2%-3% operating leverage in the core retail bank. I think that's really important as we committed over time to say we're looking at managing expenses. I think you saw from our Investor Day, we've accomplished a lot, and we've acted with a sense of urgency, knowing that this cycle's not going to last forever, and we had to accomplish some big things. But for all those long-term investors that we talk to, it's really important. The questions that you keep asking me are how are you managing disruption? How are you managing investing in data and technology, and in AI and insight, and being able to compete long term with some of the non-traditional disruptors? I think we've taken the opportunity. Some of it you saw last night through Aiden, and some of the investments we made in AI and machine learning are really starting to create value. So it's really important that we stay focused on two things. One, meeting the long-term needs of the competitive transformation of our business to a very different world, and we're very excited about doing that. You saw that at Investor Day, and we're still on that target. But we're also conscious that as things slow and revenue slows, we have to pick and choose what we do. First thing I would say is part of our NA growth came from hiring more private bankers in the U.S., hiring more commercial bankers in the U.S., hiring more capital markets, and upgrading some of our capital markets capabilities. You heard Doug McGregor talk about in Canada it's hiring commercial bankers and expanding some of our investment advisors. So we have added capacity, physical capacity, people capacity, that you'll start to see slow, for sure. That's a lever that we can pull back, and we can not replace attrition, and we can cut that back. If we sense that the true markers in the economy, which is not necessarily the stock market, but if that GDP growth starts to slow, and if we don't see that foreign direct investment or business investment, but we're seeing them right now, and therefore, we're glad we made those investments, but we can taper those investments. On the technology side, we can slow projects. With projects come consultants, come ancillary costs that you slow, come project management people. We're spending a lot of time right now just continuously to prioritize and say, "If things slow, these are the projects that aren't going to go forward or are going to get stopped." We're very conscious of the cost structure going into a downturn. But we don't see it right now. We're not going to overreact because of one volatile month in stock market that's come back. But we're watching the core signals the way the central bank would, very carefully. Those are the levers we're going to pull back on, whether it's consulting, hiring people, number of projects, the different phases of projects. But we're committed to that operating leverage in 2019 as we've articulated, and we feel we can manage through that. That's how we think about it. We've got core long-term transformation work to do, but we have to make trade-offs between if the revenues aren't there, we'll manage accordingly. You mentioned you did some hiring in the U.S. It's a balance. I mean, that's what you're paying us to do is to balance it. You mentioned you're doing some hiring in the U.S. Yep. Maybe you can talk to City National, because even there, everybody's wondering what is the outlook for growth out of City National in the U.S.? Maybe you can speak to a bit of an outlook there. With hiring, I would assume you're expecting better growth in 2019. Yeah. Our U.S. businesses, both capital markets and wealth management came off strong years, an exceptional year for City National in the U.S. wealth franchise, making just under $1.1 billion in our U.S. wealth franchise. So we're well on track, if not ahead of where we thought we'd be three years ago when we announced the acquisition of City National. The growth profile is strong. Our customers are active. We're continuing to expand our footprint in commercial banking into Boston. So we've lifted out a team in Boston. The model's really simple. We compete on a structure that wraps our arms around teams around a customer versus our larger competitors that segment their capabilities and their businesses, and approach a customer in a more fragmented way. We are a team-based approach because we're a smaller bank, and there's a number of high-quality private bankers and commercial bankers that want that team-based approach. As we take them, we lift them out of our competitors. This team-based approach is very effective for us in serving a customer, and we're winning organically. So that's the strategy in Boston, is we have a team we've lifted out from a competitor, and we've got a commercial banking group in Boston organically now. We're doing that in New York City on the private banking side and the commercial banking side. We did that in Washington on the private banking side. We've done Minneapolis on the private banking. We've lifted out teams in commercial banking on the food and beverage and on the aerospace defense side in California. So we're going to continue to do that. That is the highest ROE growth, and that is the focus of management. I think there's a lot of runway in leveraging our private banking jumbo mortgage strategy. We've got the back office now. We've brought in Kelly Coffey from JPMorgan. She's going to start in two weeks. We're very excited about that. Kelly, as you might have read, headed JPMorgan's private bank, and she will be the new CEO in two weeks of City National. Very strong background in hiring private bankers, competing in core private banking products and services. So we're very excited about the next phase of growth in City National with, I would hope, a little bit more of an orientation towards private banking growth, which has been predominantly corporate banking growth, commercial banking growth in the past couple of years. The deposit side remains. We moved up, as most of you have noticed, from a 70% loan-to-deposit ratio to 80% loan-to-deposit ratio. That has helped our NIMs as we have invested those deposits. That is always part of the strategy. We still have a strong capability to sweep off-balance-sheet deposits in our wealth franchise back on balance sheet. So, we see that as a strong strategy to create margin and to create funding opportunities to continue to grow our asset loan book. Going forward, we can compete a little bit better on deposits in the U.S. because we have been long deposits for so long, we have not been competitive on price because we have not really needed them. But the opportunity there and acquisition of Exactuals and our significant investments in data faction and that cash management connectivity gives us an opportunity to attract low beta payments deposits on both sides. Exactuals is a fantastic acquisition for us in the entertainment space, but we can see Exactuals being leveraged in the oil and gas royalty space. So certainly thinking about that platform and other payments capabilities in the United States. We have a strategy on the payment side, a strategy on the savings side, and a strategy on the off-balance sheet to on-balance sheet side that we think will create funding opportunity to continue to grow our book. We have not changed our lending standards in the United States. It has been predominantly expanding our footprint, maintaining our culture, absolute maintaining our risk appetite has not changed since the acquisition. This is really strong footprint expansion, cross-selling banking products into existing clients. We are really, really happy about how this first three years has gone and excited about the next three years. We have got so much organic opportunity that really, we have not really focused that clearly on acquisition. Again, saying if it makes sense and it gives us a footprint in a new market and accelerates growth, and I can get a good return on it for shareholders, yeah, we will certainly consider it. But in the meantime, we got a lot to do on the organic side at really good ROEs. You touched on capital there for a moment, a brief moment. Yep. You opened the door for me to another question. Wanted to touch on capital and the strange thing that has happened here in Canada, which is the regulators came out and said, "We are going to actually make public the buffer that was previously not public. Yep. They announced the buffer, and then the very first opportunity they got, they raised it by 25 basis points. The question naturally for a CEO is, does that change anything for Royal? If that does not change anything for Royal, what happens if in June the regulator decides to increase the buffer by another 25 basis points or 50 basis points? Maybe you could just touch on that real quick for us. Yeah. Maybe just a couple of clarifying points. One, OSFI is treating us as a G-SIB and the other D-SIBs similarly. So the buffer applies the same to all of us. There is no disadvantage, I would say, to being a G-SIB with the articulation of this buffer. The answer is no, we have not changed our core target minimums of 10.5%, and therefore, we still would guide to say any capital that we are holding above 10.5% is discretionary capital, that management will either build a buffer for a cycle or build a buffer for flexibility within knowing that it can either allocate that capital to growth or RWA growth to share buybacks or to an acquisition if needed. But we are continuing to manage our surplus capital with the same targets. Nothing's really changed for you? Well, we'll take it into consideration as we go through stress testing and stress testing limits, but certainly as we work with OSFI to look through stress testing and how you use the buffer through that. We don't believe the articulation of that higher buffer mandates a change in our target right now. We're still guiding to, we believe we have excess capital above 10.5%. Okay. I'm going to pause here for a moment and look at the questions that are being asked by the audience. I see the number one question is as follows: thinking about Facebook, where do you draw the line in terms of gathering data on your clients during partnerships? Yeah. Great question. What data is okay to collect and when is it going too far? Really important question. We take an approach. There's three key pillars to this. One, you have to be completely transparent with what you're collecting. Not just broad data, but here's what I'm collecting. The second pillar is you have to be very clear in the value that the customer gets from providing their data. This is where Facebook, I think, went completely off bounds, too, is this is not about value for RBC at the expense of the customer. What value does the customer get in exchange for providing their data? You have to be very transparent with that. The third pillar, and all these pillars work together, is you have to give the customer control over turning data on and off at individual category elements or en masse. They have to see the exchange of value that changes with turning things on and off. That's our vision for Ampli, and that's our vision for how we have to build out an ecosystem of data in our country, not just at RBC. Under those three pillars, I think we have a fair exchange of value, we have a transparency, and we have a control. If you can meet those three tests, I think we have built an ecosystem where Canadians and Americans, global citizens should feel value exchange and control and transparency creates a healthy environment. I think it was absent from many of the situations we've talked about, and we have to build towards that, and we're having active dialogues, but that's how we're building our processes internally. Okay. With that, we're going to now turn the floor. One last thing for you, which is market volatility, yet great year in 2018. 2019 outlook looks like there's still good growth. Maybe some last key messages from you for your investors and shareholders in the room today. I think from management's perspective, it is about balance and about understanding how the world is going on. Knowing that we are going through this secular transformation, continue to invest in those long-term strategies that we articulated in our Investor Day in June. We think they are powerful concepts. You have told us they are powerful concepts. We are focused on executing against that. We are very excited about creating more value for customers than our competitors can create, using our scale to create that value, continuing to build on the momentum. At the same time, we are not completely ignorant of the volatility out there and the impact on our revenues, and we have to make choices and prioritize. That is the balance that we will bring to the marketplace. I think we did really well in 2018 in articulating a vision and executing against that and growing share across our core products and really seeing all of our core businesses perform well last year. I think it is the first time in a number of years we have seen from the retail bank to U.S. Wealth to Capital Markets, to Canadian Wealth, all our businesses are performing well, and we plan to build on that momentum. Okay. With that- Thank you. We close this session. Thanks very much, Dave. Thanks. Thanks.