M&A Announcement

Jan 5, 2016

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. To the Suncor's Offer for Canadian Oil Sands Webcast. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded Tuesday, 01/05/2016. I would now like to turn the conference over to Steve Douglas, Suncor Energy Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you, operator, and good morning, and welcome, everyone. With me here this morning is Suncor's President and Chief Executive Officer, Steve Williams. As you know, Suncor's offer to acquire all the shares of Canadian Oil Sands Limited expires in less than four days at 6PM Mountain Time, 8PM Eastern Time this Friday, January 8. With that top of mind, we'll take the next few minutes to review the benefits to Canadian Oil Sands shareholders of accepting our offer and the risks we believe of rejecting it. After that, we'll be open for questions. During the call and throughout the offer period, you can direct questions to us by emailing offersuncor dot com. That's o f f e rsuncor dot com. You can review the complete offer materials filed on SEDAR and EDGAR and on our offer website. You can also contact our Investor Relations department or D. F. King, our information agent. The contact details are included on the back pages of today's presentation as well as in yesterday's news release and on our website at suncor.com. Before we begin, I'd like to point out that Suncor's offer to purchase shares of Canadian Oil Sands is being made subject to the terms and conditions set out in Suncor's Office to Purchase and Takeover Bid Circular dated 10/05/2015 as varied and amended November 12 and 12/03/2015 along with the accompanying offered documents. The information being presented today is qualified in its entirety by reference to the complete text of the offer documents, which should be read carefully before decisions are made with respect to the offer. This presentation should also be viewed and considered in conjunction with the accompanying slide deck, which is available on Suncor's website and can be downloaded. Please carefully review the advisories at the beginning of the slide deck and in the offer documents, both of which provide important information. This presentation doesn't constitute an offer or solicitation of an offer to buy or sell securities. Suncor's offer is being made solely by means of the offer documents. And of course, this presentation contains forward looking statements and forward looking information. Forward looking statements and information are not guarantees of future performance and they do involve a number of risks and uncertainties. Actual performance may differ materially from what is presented by such forward looking statements and information. And this presentation also includes references to free cash flow, which is a non GAAP measure as described on Slide four. With that, I will turn the call over to Steve Williams. Thank you, Steve. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning. As Steve mentioned, our offer expires in four days, which means, you must act now if you wish to accept our offer. And without a significant show of support by Canadian Oil Sand shareholders tendering to our offer, we currently have no intention to extend. That means Canadian Oil Sand's shareholders who haven't already tendered their shares have a very important decision to make and precious little time, to act. The purpose of this call, is to clear up some of the misinformation you've been receiving from Canadian Oil Sands board and management and answer any final questions, you might have about our offer or about the value we believe we can create for you as a new Suncor shareholder and how that compares to the prospects, for Canadian Oil Sands on a stand alone basis. So our goal is for you to leave this call feeling, fully informed and confident in tendering your shares as soon as possible and before the deadline this Friday. First, let me remind you of, the significant and immediate value in our offer. Canadian Oil Sand shareholders will receive, 0.25 Suncor shares for each, Canadian Oil Sand share. In the, letter it, filed on Christmas Eve, the Canadian oil sands board incorrectly claimed that its shares are worth more than that. The market is saying otherwise. Based on yesterday's close, our offer equates to 8.82, dollar dollars per Canadian oil sands share, which, represents an implied premium of 42% to the pre offer price of 6.19, dollars per share. As an owner of Canada's leading integrating energy company, you will also receive an immediate 45% increase in the amount of dividends you receive. With a larger ownership position in Syncrude, we intend to devote the resources necessary to work with our partners to achieve real and lasting operational improvements at Syncrude. And as a Suncor shareholder, you would get the benefits of those gains as well. These are obviously, tough times for energy companies, but, we sincerely believe that Suncor can weather these times better than our peers and much better than, Canadian oil sands. We have a rock solid balance sheet and have proven that we can make money and create shareholder value, when oil prices rise and when they don't. So I think the numbers are clear. Over the five years leading up to the, to our October 5 offer, Suncor increased its dividend by 190% with a total shareholder return of more than 15%. Facing the exact same market conditions, Canadian Oil Sands cut its dividend by 90% and its shareholders endured a negative total return of 69% during the period. So premium value, a significant dividend increase, a rock solid balance sheet, a track record of strong operational performance, and an ongoing stake in Canada's leading integrated energy company. That's what you get, with Suncor's offer. The Canadian Oil Sands, board and management are saying that shareholders would be better off if Suncor went away. So let's put aside the rhetoric, for a moment and review the facts. First of all, if our offer is rejected, you can expect the price of your shares to drop sharply. As a starting point, we believe it's fair to assume that the price would return to its pre offer level of, 6.19 per share. That's a decline of more than 25% from where it closed December 31. Assuming the Canadian oil sands is correct when it says that, its share price is 98% correlated to the price of oil, your shares could drop at a further 20% below their pre offer level given the approximate 20% decline in oil prices we've experienced over the past three months since we, originally made our offer. That implies a Canadian oil sands share price approximately, 5, dollars representing a drop of almost 40% from where Canadian oil sands, shares closed on December 31, with limited prospects of bouncing back anytime soon. Of course, we can't know, for certain what will happen to the Canadian oil sands shares if our offer goes away. What we do know is what has happened to other companies in similar circumstances. Pacific Exploration and Production Corp, formerly known as Pacific, Rubialis Energy Corp, is trading approximately 68% lower, since a bid for its shares terminated on, July. Strat Energy Services Limited is trading approximately 44% lower since the proposed offer from, Total Energy Services terminated at September. And KNS Potash is trading approximately 24% lower since the termination of an offer from Potash Corp, October. So the choice is yours. You can accept Suncor's offer and capture significant premium, while retaining oil sands exposure through Canada's leading integrated energy company, or you can absorb an immediate share price decline possibly of 40% or more and hope, for an oil price recovery the market doesn't expect anytime soon. And that is, the potential immediate impact. Let's consider, Canadian oil sands longer term prospects. Using the current oil price outlook, and we're talking about the market forecast, not Suncor's, it could take many years before Canadian oil sands can afford, to fund a meaningful dividend increase. This is because Canadian oil sands said and wisely to be frank in our view that its priority is to use any positive, free cash flow to pay down $1,000,000,000 to $2,000,000,000 of its current debt load. With Canadian sands credit profile already just one notch above, junk status, a failure to prioritize cash to pay down debt would only put the company further, behind the eight ball. Of course, Canadian oil sands will tell you that it's poised to benefit when prices turn, but many analysts believe it could be years before prices recover and oil futures suggest we won't see a return to $55 WTI until at least 2020. These aren't our predictions, but actual contracts which indicate the market's view on pricing. So even for, long term investors, that's a long time to wait. And even then, Canadian oil sands shareholders would only truly benefit, from rising oil prices if Syncrude is able to sort out its production and cost issues. Naturally, Canadian oil sands has insisted that things are getting better at Syncrude. Unfortunately, this has become something of an annual tradition for Canadian Oil Sands. For the past eight years, Canadian Oil Sands has overpromised and under delivered, and the pattern continues as you can see, very plainly on this slide. Just last month, Canadian Oil Sands proclaimed and I quote, a new era of lower cost operations for Syncrude. That was December 1. A week later on December 8, Syncrude experienced yet another operational setback that will cost cost at least forty days of reduced, production. And make no mistake, this was not planned maintenance as Canadian oil sands has implied. No one plans maintenance in Fort Fort in Fort McMurray at three days notice in the dead of winter over Christmas. It was an emergency shutdown, and we think shareholders deserve the truth on this latest operational problem. So let's turn, now to the claim that Canadian Oil Sands made in November to the Alberta Securities Commission about having, four highly credible, parties apparently willing, to make superior offers. Finally, yesterday, Canadian oil sands acknowledged, what, we suspected all along. They have no superior offer. After all this time, all Canadian Oil Sands is offering is hope for a price recovery that the market doesn't see coming anytime soon and operational improvements at Syncrude, for which there unfortunately is simply no evidence. Some of you, may still be wondering if we will increase our offer, so let me be, clear and frank. We believe our offer is full and fair, and we have no plans whatsoever to do so. So the choice is clear. Tender your your shares and receive significant upfront premium, an immediate dividend increase, and ownership in Canada's leading integrated energy company, a company, by the way that has demonstrated it can, create value when oil prices are low and when they rise. And that has a proven track record of driving industry leading operational performance at large complex oil sands operation. Or you can stick with Canadian oil sands in this lower for even longer oil price environment, a heavily indebted company that it that is, pinning its hope, on an oil price recovery and improved operational results from its one underperforming asset over which it has no control. So as you've heard me say repeatedly, hope is not a strategy. As a Canadian oil sands shareholder, doing enough is the same as rejecting our offer. If you wish to protect the value of your investment and receive, the benefits of our offer, it's vitally important that you take action immediately. Call your broker today. Go to our website. Call, our information agent, DF King, at the number listed on our website and, in all of our materials. And tender your shares before 6PM, Mountain Time or 8PM Eastern Time this Friday, January 8. In fact, we recommend that you get your instructions to your broker immediately to ensure, that they are processed in time. And we remind shareholders that certain brokers and intermediaries will have tender deadlines today or tomorrow. So, please act now. Thank you very much for your time and attention. We'll now be pleased, to take your questions. Operator? Thank you, sir. Operator, I do have a question here that's coming online. So while we're waiting for questions over the phone, I'll take the first question online. The first question I've received is, can you explain why Suncor is willing to invest substantially more per producing barrel to develop Fort Hills while taking on more operational risk than what Suncor is willing to pay for producing barrel at Syncrude? It's a great question because it is a bit of a misnomer. We're actually offering significantly more for the ownership stake in Syncrude than we did, to purchase the extra 10% in Fort Hills last fall. The current offer equates to about $70,000 per flowing barrel at Syncrude and that's versus $56,000 per flowing barrel in the Fort Hills transaction. However, it is difficult to compare these two transactions on a cost per flowing barrel basis because Fort Hills produces high quality bitumen or it will when it's operational and Syncrude produces synthetic crude oil. We value an asset on its free cash flow profile. Fort Hills is a brand new asset with operating costs and sustaining capital costs expected to be a lot lower than those at Syncrude. And depending on the assumptions you make, Fort Hills margins and free cash flow could well exceed Syncrude's. So we think both offers are completely fair and market based. Operator, do you have questions? Our next question comes from the line of Neema Bilu. Just wanted to ask if you guys you've noted the futures prices are about $55 for WTI. What exactly is your view on long term pricing in making this bid? Obviously, it's more positive and constructive than futures pricing. But just wanted to get a sense, what you world see in making this bid for COS? We plan for all circumstances. So let me talk first in terms of what we do for Suncor's business. We don't bet the company on crude prices. We plan for all circumstances. So, our strategy has clearly been to be the low cost operator, which we currently are. If you look at our operations in Oil Sands, our average, and these numbers are approximate because we haven't audited last year's numbers yet. But, approximately our cash operating costs were for our mixed basket of products was about CAD28, in the very low, $20 So we position the company to be to be cash flow positive at very low crude oil prices. And of course, in a business like, the oil sands, the most important factor in operating costs, whilst absolute cash costs are important, what's most important is that you get the reliability of the plant up so that you've got a divisor, for what is a business with very high fixed costs. And that's the singular big difference between Canadian oil sands and Suncor. If you look over the last five years, our reliability has consistently improved and 2015 will be another improvement year. And Canadian oil sands have been doing the opposite. In fact, 2015 was their worst year in the last eight plus years. So we run the rather than just speculating on crude prices, that's not what we bet the company on. We have a strategy to drive to low cost to position ourselves. Just a quick follow-up question. You made some good points. I understand your frustration with Canadian oil sands reliability. As you've mentioned, it's almost an annual tradition to have an outages, which has affected their operating costs. But what practices do you feel you can bring to bear that you wouldn't have already been able to bring to bear as a minority partner in this project? I don't understand how Yeah. I mean, I was looking at at moving to 40, you know, 40 odd percent will help you bring, you know, additional, synergies with respect to operating practices. Can you clarify that a little bit? Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I would put reliability broadly under three groupings. One is the, you know, the, what I would call the, micro operating level practices, what we would call operational excellence and Exxon would call operations integrity management. And our systems are are are are very similar, and we have very similar practices. So we think we can bring some things there, but, you know, that won't be where, the breakthrough comes. We think there are two other areas where we can help. One is, the engagement of employees. We have a very highly motivated group of employees who are working in that region who feel part of, the operational excellence system. And we think we can take, some of those practices across and are very happy to do that. So it's some of the microprocesses and some of the peep people processes. But probably the most important one, is the fact that we have a very big plant across the road that we can start to cross connect in. So, you know, if you have one mine, one upgrader, and then one, treating, train, you get a certain reliability. As you start to get multiple parallel processes, can, increase the reliability. So in Suncor's case, we have two mines and two in situ plants, for example. So we tend, so we rarely, short our upgraders of, feed. There are opportunities for multiple, cross connections because of the, proximity of the plant. And those are synergies, which to be quite frank are only available to Suncor. You know, Exxon with all its capability, doesn't have those operating plants it can connect into and get, that structural reliability change. So, so I think, you know, those are the three areas. And I think, you know, it's also and we've been on the record as saying is, you you wouldn't do that with, or or you you you put a certain amount of resource in when you're a 12% owner. You put a very different amount of resource in when you're a, 49% shareholder. So, you know, I I the sum of all of that is I believe we can make a material difference to the reliability of Syncrude by committing more resource and working closely, with Imperial and Exxon. That's an excellent answer. Thank you for that detail. And finally, are there any plans then with increased ownership to replace Imperial as the operator? Are you happy to continue that relationship but with more influence? It it it's not part of the, plan. We are very happy to, support Imperial Exxon and have a great deal of respect for their operating capability. I think we will be able to offer them some real assistance and we started to talk to them about that possibility. I really appreciate the detail. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm showing no further questions registered on the phone line, sir. Okay. Question from the line of Ben Hubeck. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Would you be able to comment on you've talked about requiring substantial support in the bid. Is that are you able to define that a little bit further or is it a bit open ended at this point? Okay. Yes. Let me just I mean, I'll give you a few, indicators. Won't be actual numbers. But, you know, in the, first week following the you know, we we started the process ten months ago in March. When we did the the the bid in and and we're unable to get engagement from, Canadian Oil Sands, management or board. In fact, got summarily dismissed as as you've heard. When we went, when we went into, the November bid this October bid because we've always had the objective of, giving the opportunity to the Canadian oil sands, shareholders to let their, views be known. We put, two roadshows, out in parallel. And, over that first, week, maybe eight days, we think we saw, probably 70% of the institutional, shareholders. We had overwhelming messages from them, very disappointed in Canadian oil sands management and board, particularly over two things. This, overstatement in undelivery was a was a thorn in the side, but that wasn't the real issue. The real issue was the, disappointment about, Canadian oil sands not engaging, in a conversation with us about, about the offer. And that's remained the case to this day. So as we've gone around, we've been, seeing some of the, bigger shareholders, this week again, and we're getting a very clear message that, there is not support for, an independent Canadian or Sands because of, those factors. The other thing I would say is I I can't give numbers, yet because the, you know, the process is is early and engaged. We are slightly ahead of the tender numbers that I would have expected at this stage. So things are looking good, but, you know, it's early days. We expect most of the tendering to happen towards the end of this week. And, the I just wanted to speak or actually get some comments on, Seymour Schulich's, I guess, campaign. He's the only person who's actually identified himself, I think, other than maybe Burgundy that said that they were against the transaction. But I think in one of his press releases or comments, said he had some sort of group of shareholders and the number that rings a bell is something like 28% that are opposed to this. Do you believe that? And is that what you're finding that three out of 10 shareholders are against? Do you have any Or comments on his claim that 28% of shareholders are against this? Yes. Let me make a comment. I mean, first of all, let me start with I have tremendous respect for Seymour Schulich. You know, he's got a wonderful track record, in terms of his his choices and decisions. So I make, I make my comment against that background. You know, he is a very different shareholder. He owns approximately 5%, and and from all of the information we've got, he is very much in a minority. And the best indications I have, and it's not an exact science, is there are not 28% of, people in an alignment against, against this offer. In fact, you know, if you read Schulich's letter, one of the things I read into it was, he wasn't actually against it. He was negotiating, he was negotiating price. And we have had some, conversations with Schulich. We've got those two very clear messages from the shareholders and we're trying to Schulich is one and not everybody has the luxury of having to wait five years before any payment comes and not getting paid to wait. Most of us have different expectations from our investment. So I respect his view, but don't think it's very reflective of, of of the broader messages we we we are receiving. The clear message on the counter side, because we're also taking the opportunity to see our own shareholders, is, you know, the the reputation we've worked very hard to get is one of capital discipline. So don't give up your capital discipline, Steve, as you work through this, process, and and we will not give up that capital discipline, as as as we go through it. The market market is telling us. So, you know, I understand, Schulich's argument. You know, a 40 plus percent premium, a 45% dividend, and if you could get it, a warrant on crude price would be tremendous. What has happened though since we first made the offer, price of crude was over 50. Then it when we made the bid, it was down to, just above 40, and now we're down in the, mid thirties. The operation of the asset is now clearly on record is the worst performance in the last eight years last year and deteriorating. Last year was, it ended bad and 2016 is starting bad. So I think you add those together with the clear dissatisfaction with, the board and management of Canadian Oil Sands now. And I think our bid is full and fair. And I think the market is telling us that. And at the moment, minimum support is, I think, 66.23. Would you ever I mean, you could still effectively control Syncrude by only having, you know, 50% of COS and then your own your own, your own stake. Would you if you couldn't quite get to sixty six and two thirds, are you are you open to reducing the tender to, to 50 plus one? No. Our you know, what we don't, we we are looking for, sixty six and two thirds. I will watch with very close attention, as as as the tenders come in. If I will make the judgment through the weekend as to whether we believe, we will be able to move, to to to closing the deal out. If we don't get enough Canadian Oil Sand shareholders to indicate quite clearly to us that we can progress, we will not go ahead with with with with the with the deal. So, you know, I am looking for a very clear message by this Friday that this deal is going to close. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So if I could just make, sorry, one last comment, I guess, in support of the deal. I think Seymour, she'll, like, is is effectively just just playing chicken. And, you know, I think there's a time and a place for chicken, and and and I don't think this is a time. Chicken only works if you have leverage and and other options. And I think, as everybody is aware, Canadian Oil Sands doesn't have any options. They went through a process. They didn't have any interest. They have nothing else on the table. And I think it should be obvious to every shareholder that you guys, Suncor, are not going to bid against themselves and they're the only offer on the table. And the only other alternative is to watch our our share price go to well, I think, well south of $6 I think the the new level would probably be something well into the fives. And while Seymour Shulick, I also agree he's a very smart man. He's he's been wrong before. There's a company called Birch Cliff several years ago. He had the opportunity to sell it for $12 and he, again, dug his heels in and and it's trading at $4 today. So so he can be wrong as well. And despite what Canadian oil sands is saying about its unique assets, there's a million ways to get exposure to oil, whether it be oil spend specifically or otherwise. And so if you love oil, you'd be so much better off taking your $9 in this case from Suncor. And if you don't like Suncor, sell your shares and buy another oil company or even oil for that matter. That would create so much more value for COS shareholders than watching our shares go to $5 So anyway, that was just my comment on that to any other shareholders who are on the fence listening in. I agree. People will think I've paid you to say all those things, but I I I do appreciate your honesty. The the the other the only thing I would add to that is, you know and and and I'm not I'm not bluffing or playing games here. If we were going to make this bid again at this stage, it would not be at this level. We've gone through a process. We will honor our bid, through till Friday. The world has changed significantly, and I think you're right. It's a a very difficult stark choice to have. And indications are this week that the majority of shareholders are going to support. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Our next question comes from the line of Yadullah Hussain. I wanted to know if your bid does not succeed, would you divest eventually from Syncrude? What would be your strategy? I I I don't have any immediate plan to. We have, a full, time m and a group in place. Whilst we've given a lot of attention, to Canadian oil sands, we have been working a number of, projects in parallel. You know, the combination of, you know, I'm I I am pleased to be able to say our performance in 02/2015, whilst the market wasn't very generous to us, it's been another very good year, for for Suncor as the numbers, will will will show. So we stay in a very strong position. If you look over the last, five years, what you will see is, you know, we're not serial acquirers. We occasionally, acquire companies, with Petro Canada being the big deal we did. And we have been, divestors of assets at Choice Time. So we sold, our gas business just prior to the, collapsing gas price. We also sold some other assets through that period. So we've got no fixed plans to immediately divest if the deal doesn't go ahead, but you will see us very active in what is a very interesting market, particularly from a buyer's point of view rather than a seller's point of view. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Roland Keeper. Please go ahead with your question. Hi, good morning. I just wanted to follow-up some of these percentages that BNN has accounted for in terms of Seymour Schulich's discussions and interviews. The BNN report claims that Seymour Schulich and he doesn't put this in his letter, so it's I'm I'm wondering whether Suncor has some direct information as a result of communications with Mr. Schulich. Or I assume he's below 5% because you have an offer outstanding and if or at least he has not acquired shares during the offering period that will require disclosure on his part as to a specific shareholding. You indicated it was approximately 5%. I assume you're satisfied with the disclosure he has made so that you believe that to be the correct number? Yes. As far as we know and as I'm sure you know, it's quite difficult to pin down exact holdings by any shareholder, just because of disparate filing requirements. But we take, Mr. Schulich, at his word that he has 5%. We certainly, we're quite confident that there's not 28% aligned with him, though. Okay. If I might turn around and ask that slightly different on the same point. In terms of direct communications, in terms of letters you've received by shareholders that do not support your offer, what is the totality of the number of shares these shareholders hold percentage? So you said haven't or have supported? Have not supported. So they write you a letter, they criticize the offer with respect to value, and they say we hold these number of shares representing x percent of Cane Oil Sands, and we don't intend to support your current offer. Okay. I I mean, to be, frank, at this stage, of course, there is no requirement on it's not a it's not a vote. It's a tendering of shares. And other than, Schulich, we have had no, no no no significant contact from shareholders who are not supporting. That doesn't mean, they're they're not out there. It just means they don't feel the need to talk to us. So, you know, we have we have estimates of those numbers as we've, looked at the probability of each scenario forward. But, the net of all of, those assumptions is, you know, we, need to see and we expect to see, tears shares tendered, to us by Friday for us to proceed with this. And we we have every belief that's gonna happen, but, you'll see us working hard right the way up until Friday, Friday evening. Okay. So what I take away from from these comments is you have no understanding where this 28% It's not even whatever communications you have had That that that's we we we understand where the 28% comes from. We've spoken to what we believe, or or the majority of those, and we have an understanding of, what their position is. What what what they don't necessarily disclose to us is whether they will vote one way or the other. Some of them have told us directly they will, they will be tendering their shares. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of David Vanderwood. Please go ahead. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, David. What's the range of values that Suncor puts on lease '29? I mean, we you know, lease '29 is a bit of a red herring here. So, you know, I could I could talk about lease 29, but, it it's a bit of a red herring. Whether we have, 12% or 49% or in fact even 51%, makes, no difference to the governance or significant difference to the governance of Syncrude. A commercial market price will be negotiated by Syncrude on behalf of on behalf of the, group of, companies. And the group of companies, even if Suncor were up at the high percentages, would still only be one of, one of the one of the votes towards that. So it's a bit of a red herring. I have no if you stand back, if you look at our mind, Lease 29 has some attraction, to Suncor. We are, a massive resource owner in the region. You know, we have enough resource in our ownership for the next fifty plus years. There is, definitely the, one of the next stages in the development of the whole basin will be the rationalization, or unitization of some of the leases. Some of the leases that others own would be better for us, and some of the leases we own will be better for other people. So, you know, we have leases close to Kearl. We have leases close to Shell. We have leases close to, C and Q. We have leases close, to Syncrude. So there will be some rationalization at some stage, but nothing about this deal is really to do with lease 29. It's it's it's it's it's a red herring. But isn't it true that if Suncor at some point agrees to buy at least 29 off of Syncrude and if you are successful in purchasing Canadian oil sands, you obviously don't have to pay for 37% of lease 29 because it came with Canadian oil sands. But it would still but, you know, these leases in the future for they aren't being developed have you know, they've they've they've have very little value. It's, you know, it's only if these things there there are, you know, masses of reserves out there which potentially have value, but until somebody puts a project on them, at the moment, you know, resources or reserves are selling for, you know, pennies on the dollar. Right. And what do you think they're worth if if they're classified as proven reserves? Well, proven reserves, we still have enough reserves. Give give us an actual number, Steve, of 6,000,000,000. So, you know, we have we have in excess of 6,000,000,000 barrels of proven reserves. We actually have in place probably between 25,000,000,050 barrels, with different levels of reserve classification. So the marginal reserve in a, you know, in a in a in a basin which, almost certainly will not produce all of its, reserves is is it's interesting, but it's not that material to this deal. Okay. I need to wrap up here. We have hit our time limit. So operator, I'll ask you to terminate the call. I would like to just before we do that, thank everyone for participating. And we continue to welcome questions. So certainly that offer at suncor.com is a good vehicle for reaching us and we will commit to prompt responses. Thanks to everyone for participating and we would encourage you tender your shares today. Thank you, operator. Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the We conference call for thank you for your participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.