Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Good afternoon and welcome to the DMG Blockchain Solutions Q4 and full year 2023 update conference call. Participants on this call are advised that the audio of this conference call is being broadcast live over the internet and is also being recorded for playback purposes. A webcast replay of the call will be available on the company's website. Joining us today from DMG Blockchain Solutions is Sheldon Bennett, the company's Chief Executive Officer, and Steven Eliscu, Chief Operating Officer. During this call, management will be making forward-looking statements, including statements that address DMG Blockchain Solutions' expectations for future performance or operational results. Forward-looking statements involve risks and other factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those statements.
For more information about these risks, please refer to the risk factors described in DMG Blockchain Solutions' most recently filed periodic reports and the company's recent press releases, particularly the cautionary statements within. The content of this call contains time-sensitive information that is only accurate as of today, December 21st, 2023. Except as required by law, DMG Blockchain Solutions disclaims any obligation to publicly update or revise any information to reflect events or circumstances that occur after this call. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Sheldon and Steven. Sheldon?
Thank you, Louie. Good afternoon and thanks to everyone who has joined the call today. My name is Sheldon Bennett, and I'm the founder and CEO of DMG Blockchain Solutions. With a similar format as recent quarters, first I will provide an overview of the company's achievements in the past quarter and financial year. I will then pass the call to Steven, who will review the company's performance. We will end the call with our Q&A based on questions submitted to us prior to the call. So now to our highlights of recent achievements. Regarding Core+, our software platforms. We continue to upgrade our software suite. Upgrading code, especially for operating a pool and controlling a mine, is central to both our Core and Core+ strategy.
While our revenue and progress in building this business have been below expectations, we have added some very talented developers to our team that should enable us to progress on our Core+ goals in the coming calendar year. We have worked to automate our Ordinal inscription process, and we will be enabling both other websites as well as customers to directly send us images on our own website for inscription. In addition, we have been automatically stripping out uncommon satoshis, which are desired by the market and can be paired with Ordinals for a unique market offering based on clean energy. Our objective is for TerraPool to become the primary method by which Ordinals are inscribed using carbon-neutral energy.
Moreover, to facilitate execution of our Core+ strategy, we aim to stay at the leading edge of the latest additions to the Bitcoin protocol, including BRC-20 and Runes, as we have seen the jump in transaction fees over the past year based on Ordinals. DMG's goal is not only to be a participant in the adoption of these protocols, but also to be a catalyst for new Bitcoin use case adoption so that transaction fees remain a substantial part of the overall block reward. On our last call, we indicated that we would be upgrading Blockseer Explorer. While this may only be a modest revenue generator in the future, it is a good litmus test of DMG demonstrating its increasing technological promise with the goal of Blockseer Explorer being much more capable beyond what a typical explorer can do.
Our goal is to make Blockseer.com the industry's go-to explorer to map Bitcoin transactions from wallet A to wallet B. We expect to demonstrate an initial version in the coming months. On our last call, we also indicated that we are doing work to develop what we have called Blockseer Freeze, which would serve as part of a custody solution, which is integral to serving financial institutions. Lawrence Strong, who we hired as an advisor in September, is providing us invaluable insight towards being able to fill this piece of our Core+ strategy. Not only is Lawrence advising us regarding the technology pieces that we need to build, but also on the key partnerships that we need to develop that will provide the enablement to deliver an enterprise-grade and regulatory compliant solution. We expect to have more to announce in this regard in the coming months.
We are also working on other initiatives to make TerraPool more attractive to new members. We have been continuing to work on efforts that will enable pool participants not only to pay less fees, but also gain more revenue. We have spoken about our ideas at length regarding the potential for a price premium to be gained by selling green Bitcoin, as well as enabling green Bitcoin transactions. We are still a believer there is great potential for utilizing our Terra technology. Regarding core, our mining business. In the September quarter, DMG had a realized hash rate of just under 0.7 exahash with a fleet efficiency of 29 joules per terahash as measured from our substation, and we mined 145 Bitcoin. As a network produced about 221 bitcoins per exahash in the quarter, our Bitcoin production was in line with expectations based on our realized hash rate.
For the full year, DMG mined 878 Bitcoin, up 12% versus our 2022, with our full-year hash rate average of 0.8 exahash, up 65% year-over-year. Additionally, in the current quarter, we should achieve about 1 exahash and are making further improvements to reach our 1.2 exahash nameplate hash rate. We announced the $12.1 million purchase of 4,550 Bitmain T21 miners, which in the manufacturer-specified overclock mode could realize just over 1 exahash new mining capacity. We chose the T21 for extended temperature operating range and a Zero Plus three-phase power supply, which we expect to be a new industry standard. We intend to house these miners in our new containers outside our building at Christina Lake.
Combined with our current fleet, which we expect to rationalize with the coming halving around April, we expect to have an increased hash rate with a fleet efficiency below 25 J/TH in the coming calendar year. Beyond our 10% deposit already paid, we intend to fund the miner purchase through cash or liquidated Bitcoin and/or debt. Our immersion cooling deployment is proceeding, with our component selection largely completed and our first tanks for the first 12 MW buildout to be fabricated in the coming quarter. Subsequent to this initial buildout, for which we will verify a complete closed-loop system, we will then purchase the remainder of the equipment for the first 12 MW phase.
Depending on the success of the initial tests, we may also order at least some equipment for the additional 24 megawatts, totaling 36 megawatts of immersion capacity that we would expect to deploy in the future. At this time, we intend to operate legacy miners in immersion to help us thoroughly prove out the technology. We do not have updates on our announcement that we have entered into a non-binding agreement that would result in development of a new data center with access to low-cost, reliable, renewable energy located in Canada in a province outside of British Columbia. The delay is due to much longer-than-expected regulatory approvals. However, we are optimistic this will be resolved shortly. Additionally, we continue to review new opportunities for mining sites outside of Canada.
Just as some of our large Canadian-based peers have diversified their sites out of Canada, we too are evaluating, even as we prefer, to remain in Canada. Now for a summary on our strategy. In terms of Core+. As our Core+ strategy is to develop software to monetize Bitcoin transactions, we remain focused on our near-term goal to grow TerraPool and focus on monetizing Bitcoin transactions by enabling ordinal providers and financial institutions to move Bitcoin without adding carbon and without fumigating with bad actors. While our strategy is unchanged, our execution over the past year has been below expectations. With a much stronger software foundation and team heading into the coming calendar year, we remain committed to our Core+ strategy. Regarding DMG's Core mining strategy.
Even as we have experienced heat issues this summer with a hash rate at a low point for the calendar year, throughout development of more active air cooling, purchasing a new generation of miners designed for heat conditions, along with our first phase of immersion cooling, we expect better and more consistent hash rate results in the coming year. In tandem with developing our Core+ strategy, we remain committed to growing our hash rate in the most capital-efficient way possible. As mining remains a foundational technology, specifically, having our own mining capacity enables us to thoroughly test and deliver software that meets the requirements of other TerraPool members, enabling us to deliver improvements to what current pools provide in terms of both fee structure and services provided. Now I'll hand it over to Steven to review the company's performance.
Thank you, Sheldon. I'm Steven Eliscu, DMG's COO. Now a few words about the company's overall financial position. Our cash and crypto balance of $18.9 million declined 16% sequentially, but was up 79% year-over-year. The balance is enabling us to make capital equipment purchases, including new mining equipment, immersion cooling infrastructure, and power distribution infrastructure. On revenue, in our September quarter, our revenue decreased 25% to $5.6 million from $7.5 million in the prior quarter, mainly as revenue from self-mining decreased 27% to $5.4 million as the company's Bitcoin production declined 26%. On a full year-over-year basis, revenue declined 35%, $27.9 million from $43.2 million, largely on the decline of Bitcoin pricing. For our hosting business, our revenue declined to $0.2 million in our September quarter from $0.3 million in the prior quarter.
We expect hosting revenue to rise modestly in the near term but remain a small part of our overall revenue. On a full year-over-year basis, hosting revenue is down 64% to $1.3 million in 2023 as we have de-emphasized this part of our mining business to mainly focus on self-mining. Net pool revenue was $0 in the September quarter versus -$0.3 million in the prior quarter. As we discuss in our financial disclosures, we expect net pool revenue results to be either positive or negative depending on the quarter, with the resulting fluctuations to sum to zero over time. Regarding our margins, our margin percentage on our revenue-less operating and maintenance costs was 36% in the September quarter, down from 45% the prior quarter. As our revenue also declined, it was not fully offset by the decline in utility costs.
Our fleet efficiency also slightly worsened to 29 Joules per terahash from 28.7 in the prior quarter. We expect these trends to reverse in the current quarter as our hash rate should be up nearly 50% sequentially as our fleet is operating more efficiently and Bitcoin pricing has surged ahead of the potential U.S. spot ETF approvals expected early in the new calendar year. On a full-year basis, our revenue-less operating and maintenance margin percentage in 2023 declined to 40% from 70% in the prior year, given the combination of one-third lower Bitcoin pricing and near doubling of network difficulty.
As a proxy for cash flow from our business, which assumes we're selling about 100% of our generated Bitcoin, our earnings before other items, excluding depreciation, amortization, and stock-based comp, was $0.1 million or 1% on a percentage basis in the September quarter, down from $2 million and 27% in the prior quarter. $335,000 of our expenses included the impairment of Ethereum and USD related to the Prime Trust bankruptcy. We expect a rebound of earnings before other items, excluding depreciation and amortization and stock-based comp, in the current quarter. On a full-year basis, earnings before other items, excluding depreciation, amortization, and stock-based comp, declined to $5.1 million from $24.4 million in the prior year and on a percentage basis declined to 18% from 56%. Our earnings before other items were -$4.9 million in the September quarter versus -$3.9 million in the prior quarter.
Expenses, excluding depreciation, amortization, and stock-based comp, were $1.9 million in the September quarter, up from the prior quarter on the previously mentioned Prime Trust impairment and an overall increase in OpEx. Excluding the Prime Trust impairment, expenses are likely to be somewhat more elevated in the current year as we are making more substantial investments in our Core+ strategy. On a year-over-year basis, expenses, excluding depreciation, amortization, and stock-based comp, increased to modest 4% to $6 million in 2023 from the prior year. We are still being very cautious regarding overall spending, but we have continued to hire developers for our Core+ business, specifically those with the skills who can help accelerate our development of new products. Regarding our capital expenditures, in addition to the T21 miner purchase that Sheldon discussed prior, we are also methodically deploying immersion cooling technology.
As we have previously discussed, we expect to deploy immersion cooling technology in 12 MW tranches in our Christina Lake building, which can accommodate three tranches, each of which should provide an exahash or more of mining capacity based on our current technology. For the first 12 MW, our current plan of record is to utilize a portion of our S19j Pro fleet retrofitted to work in immersion, as well as potentially purchase some new immersion-ready miners. We will likely look to a new generation of immersion-ready miners for the additional 24 MW to be built out. We have yet to decide on a vendor or vendors as we know the immersion-cooled miner offerings should expand a bit this coming year.
Outside of additional minor purchases, immersion cooling infrastructure, and the infrastructure to build power distribution outside our Christina Lake building, we do not expect other significant capital expenditures in the near term. Our depreciation expense in the September quarter decreased 22% to $4.6 million from the prior quarter and increased 10% on a full year-over-year basis to $21.9 million in 2023. As we have announced the $12 million purchase of $12.1 million of Bitmain T21 miners, we would expect depreciation to reverse its downward trend when we place those miners into service. For our net income, our net loss in the September quarter increased to $2.8 million versus the $4.3 million net loss in the prior quarter. The swing to, excuse me, a smaller loss was mainly on a digital currency revaluation gain.
On a full-year basis, the company had a slightly smaller net loss of $16.5 million versus $17 million in the prior year. For our balance sheet, our cash and digital currency holdings decreased 16% to $18.9 million sequentially as the value of our Bitcoin held decreased 17%. The value of our property and equipment and long-term deposits decreased to $50.7 million from $57.4 million in the prior quarter as our depreciation exceeded the amount of new equipment deployed. Our total asset base decreased 9% to $82.6 million from $91.2 million in the prior quarter. On a year-over-year basis, our total assets decreased by 15% from $96.9 million in the prior year.
For our mined Bitcoin in the September quarter, DMG mined nearly 145 Bitcoin, 26% decrease sequentially as a realized hash rate of 0.67 exahash was down 16% from the prior quarter, which was in line with guidance for a decrease versus the prior quarter. Our production was also negatively impacted by a 12% decrease in the network Bitcoins per exahash. As stated prior for the December quarter, we expect a rebound in our hash rate, which should be about an exahash for the quarter. In terms of our Bitcoin that we've sold in the September quarter, DMG sold 185 Bitcoin, generating $7 million in cash. Thus, we sold 128% of the Bitcoin we mined versus selling 67% in the prior quarter. For the full year, we sold 729 Bitcoin, down 6% from the prior year.
Thus, we sold 83% of the Bitcoin mined in 2023 versus 99% in the prior year. As a treasury policy, investors should continue to expect us to sell most or all of the Bitcoin that we mined. Regarding raising of debt, at least in the near term, we may utilize debt financing to support the purchase of our T21 miners. I will now hand the call back to Sheldon to summarize our prepared comments, and we will answer questions submitted to us prior to the call.
Thank you, Steven. We're reiterating our key results in outlook. As Steven described, the company is focused on prudently managing both capital and operational expenses and generating cash while still investing for the future. DMG mined 145 Bitcoin in Q4, down 26% from the prior quarter, and 878 Bitcoin for all of 2023, up 12% from the prior year. We purchased a new generation T21 miner that can generate up to an additional exahash of nameplate capacity, expected to be shipped in the March quarter. This positions us to grow to two exahash and beyond, enabling us to capture the same scale benefits as many of our larger peers while having the cash generation to support our new investments. For full year 2023, DMG's results were $27.9 million revenue, $4.9 million positive operating cash flow.
Cash and digital currency at the end was $18.9 million, with total assets of $82.6 million. We are optimistic about our future as we continue to prove that we can generate cash in a very difficult environment while advancing our software development to be in a better position from which to generate revenue. Now on to our Q&A questions. We had a number of questions submitted over the last few days. They're in no particular order. I will answer a few. I think Steve will answer a few as well. The first question is, why isn't your capacity automatically expanding beyond two exahash with your new miner purchase and your existing fleet?
So even as we add new miners, we also plan to rationalize our existing fleet, which may include a combination of running part or all of it in low power mode, as well as selling off older generation miners. Either of these actions would result in a reduction of hash rate of the existing fleet. And hence, even as we currently have 1.2 exahash of nameplate capacity, that hash rate may drop. We believe miner efficiency is going to be a heavily scrutinized metric going into and after the post-halving. And we want to set expectations that DMG is aiming to achieve sub 25 joules per terahash across its fleet. Next question, what is your strategy to survive the halving? So this sort of continues from the previous question. The cost to generate a Bitcoin effectively will double post-halving.
So we will need to run a much more efficient fleet, which is why I've stated our initial target is to get below 25 Joules per Terahash across our fleet. Continued high transaction fees may help, but we don't know where transaction fees will go. As we've seen, there are cycles where transaction fees spike and then recede. And I'm mainly speaking about Ordinals here. We can control our fleet efficiency, however. We're optimistic that we'll find a lower-cost source of electricity in the coming calendar year, which would have a proportional impact on lowering our Bitcoin production costs as well. So to sum up, our real goal here to survive the halving is to push our Joules per Terahash below, hopefully, 25 Joules per Terahash across our fleet. We're not counting solely on transaction fees being high as they have volatility.
And we are looking at lower-cost power in additional sites that we're hoping we'll be able to talk about in the new year. Another question, why are you doing both air cooling and immersion cooling when you stated immersion is the future? For DMG, there's going to be an overlap period where we'd run both. But in the long run, we believe that immersion makes the most sense as it's a much more capital-efficient way to deploy miners. Another question we have here, it seems your Core+ strategy is not working given the very limited revenue. Why are you still so optimistic? Well, software, it's a tough business, but when it works, it works. There are sort of three key reasons that drive our optimism. And one is over the last year, we've gained a much clearer understanding of the market requirements.
2, we brought in some new people who are really helping us execute our vision. And 3, we are focused on activities and have developed key ecosystem partnerships that will quickly advance our strategy. And a lot of this has to do with our previous comments about bringing Lawrence on as an advisor, helping us in our Core+ strategy. Another question here, even as you have talked about diversifying your mining equipment vendor base, you have remained with a single vendor over the past few years. Why do you continue to buy from Bitmain? Well, I mean, in some ways, that's a simple question. I mean, Bitmain is the dominant vendor. They continue to produce the most advanced equipment at the lowest price. You could debate the lowest price during the last bull run, but right now, at the lowest price that we can find.
And they've been working hard to improve their equipment and their equipment's ability to operate in different conditions around the world. Obviously, we welcome competition, and we believe there will be competition with Bitmain as a vendor when it comes to our immersion cooling solution. And we are actively talking to multiple vendors on the topic of diversifying and not relying virtually 100% on Bitmain in the coming year. Next question here. I think I'll let Steve. Maybe you want to take on a couple of these questions, Steve?
Yeah. And there are also some in the chat that we'll answer as well. But first, some of the presubmitted questions: could BRC-20 tokens be considered those being considered as securities, but a damper overall on Ordinals? And even if the SEC starts to make noise about potential some of these new tokens being securities, we think the whole idea with Ordinals is much bigger than just about creating something similar to what is in the Ethereum world with ERC-20. And what we've seen is just inscribing digital artifacts. Specifically, we've seen different kinds of art, mostly images, that along with new use cases and there's new protocols such as Runes that hopefully we'll be talking about more in coming quarters, that that will develop irrespective of what happens in terms of BRC-20 tokens being considered securities.
There will be evolution in the protocols as well that we think will go beyond just what BRC-20 has. That creates more utility for the Bitcoin blockchain. In turn, that creates more value for Bitcoin as a token. That's very exciting for where DMG is positioned as a company. The next question is, given our balance sheet strength, are we considering M&A? The answer is, we're always looking at opportunities for inorganic growth. But we found the most accretive way to grow is to build organically, just as we did with the T21 purchase. We have looked at. There are ways to get hash rate in terms of business combinations, but just going out and actually buying and deploying the equipment. For us, we believe that's the most accretive way of doing it.
But we are open to finding the best ways to increase company value, which in part includes M&A. And then a question on Prime Trust is just, when do we think we're going to receive the cryptocurrency being held? And is there a loss on those assets? As you saw from the financial disclosures, we did write down our Ethereum and USD holdings, but we retained all of the Bitcoin that we had on the balance sheet related to that. The wind-down process is going to happen through April. And we're optimistic that's going to result positively for us. We'll get at least that cryptocurrency back as well as potentially part of those assets that were taken off the books. Sheldon, did you want to touch on the Bosonic partnership for the one?
So yeah, there's a few in the chat. I was going to maybe not do them sequentially. I was going to do a couple of them. Maybe the last one, an investor asking about buying more shares of the company now or later. Obviously, we can't give any investor advice, so please don't ask those questions to us. I'd love it if we could tell you what to do, but you need to make your own decisions on the information that's publicly available. So I'll just pick that one off quickly. There's another one. What is the expected stock price for 2024? It's kind of the same answer. I can't really say anything on that. I can't tell the future. We're hoping for a strong 2024 for the whole crypto ecosystem, but we have no idea where things are going to go, up or down, how quickly, how slowly.
So it's one that knocked those two off right away. There's another one that kind of goes with a couple of questions that we've had over the years in the quarters is, what's our cost to mine a Bitcoin? We have another question asking us, what's the break-even price to mine a Bitcoin after the halving? So our September quarter cost to mine a Bitcoin was about $16,000. You can just sort of imagine, depending on the network difficulty, staying the same, going up or down. There's cases where it probably could go down at the halving, but you could kind of look at that 16 and look at doubling that. It could be a good idea of what our cost to break-even is to mine a Bitcoin. And then there's a few others in here.
How do you plan on increasing the visibility of the company and its software suite? So great question. Something we spend a lot of time thinking about, and we have some actions around it. Specifically on the software side, as we've sort of said throughout today's presentation, we are big believers in Core+. We believe the way the software will really make its mark in the industry is through third parties onboarding and using it. And we've really been focused in on that for the next year. We've tested it. We've got some partnerships that are getting close to being completed that we'll be talking about in the new year. So we think that just that usership and the market knowing what our software can do and why it's beneficial to them will bring a lot of visibility to DMG and DMG's software suite.
Company visibility, we are looking at increasing our marketing. One thing that was difficult to do the last little while with the depressed Bitcoin price and a market not super interested in what we or other companies had to say, it made it hard for us to really spend a lot on the marketing side of the company. We know how important that is to shareholders. But now that things are changing and there's a lot of interest in North America and Europe and other parts of the world in crypto, a lot of progress in what's happening, we do see ourselves spending more attention and more time on the marketing of the company. What was the question? Where is the Bosonic partnership stand? So Bosonic, as you know, we're an investor in Bosonic. Obviously, they had some hiccups with Prime Trust.
Our understanding is that they're back up with a new custodian arrangement, some new liquidity providers. We believe Bosonic will be back to where we expect it to be early in the new year. We do believe Bosonic is a technology that's very unique in its cross-custodial settlement. As we have said and as Bosonic has said, when FTX went bankrupt, DMG was trading on the Bosonic platform with FTX up to its bankruptcy. We didn't lose a penny in cash for Bitcoin because of the way Bosonic works with custodians. We think that's the future. We think that more and more exchanges will partner with Bosonic and onboard to their technology over time. As part of our Core+, we do have Lawrence working on the Bosonic partnership as well to help us maximize the benefit from it.
So we are still bullish on Bosonic and hope that we pick the winner in our investment there. What else do we have, Steven? Oh, maybe Steven's on mute.
I think there's a multi-part question about TerraPool hash rate. DMG comprises the majority of TerraPool's hash rate, which is a little over an exahash, as we've said. That is a major goal for us to expand the pool in the coming calendar year, especially as we've spent a lot of time upgrading the software, and we've done a lot of time, really a lot of testing. We really want to grow this because that grows the supply of blocks, which in turn helps answer the subsequent question about ordinal inscriptions, a significant revenue stream. We really see the bigger revenue stream longer term is going to be having transactions to go through financial transactions to go through TerraPool and to get a fee to get a premium on the fees because it's using carbon-neutral energy.
We believe if financial institutions have a choice, ultimately, in a lot of cases, because of ESG charters, they are going to pay that premium, and they are going to utilize what we can offer. As we've indicated, there's a lot of pieces to be able to make that happen. And as Sheldon indicated, Lawrence is helping advise us so we can execute properly. But it should give you an idea that our goal remains for Core+ revenue to grow substantially and to become a substantial part of the company. And we hope to be able to demonstrate that in the new calendar year.
All right. I see a late question just came in. Is uplisting still a consideration? Obviously, it is. We've been saying that for over a year. We were pretty bullish on it. Markets changed, changed the dynamics of uplisting. They're changing again. And it's percolating up to the top of our agenda. Our recent board meetings, it's come up again and again with our board of directors. So we will definitely be looking at that with renewed vigor. I can't say yes or no yet. There's a lot of consideration to put into that. And as we have said, M&A is a big thing, and M&A can accelerate or decelerate any uplisting. But it's still something we're very much focused on. Another one's coming in. I thought the question was going to end, but another one coming in.
Just where do we see, I guess, our hash rate reaching in 2024? Obviously, with the fleet we have and the fleet coming in the first quarter, we see ourselves around 2 exahash. We did talk a bit about the immersion and sort of right-sizing our fleet and trying to get to 25 joules per terahash from 29, which could include us doing more purchases along with the probability growing that we'll have a second location. So definitely, we're in the 2 exahash. But obviously, we'd like to grow that beyond 2 exahash. We can't quite see that right now, but there's some good, strong indicators that could be something we could be talking about early to mid-next year.
I think what we said in terms of the immersion capacity, there will be, after we deploy the first 12 megawatts, 24 megawatts of capacity. Each will be approximately 0.5 exahash or more. So you can see that that does give us the opportunity to grow to be on the order of 3 exahash. But that's not; we don't necessarily want to give a timeframe that that's going to happen specifically in 2024.
Yeah. I mean, we believe our Christina Lake site can handle electrically that much with the right equipment in place. Just a follow-up, will you do a debt raise? We sort of spoke about this with the T21s. We will look at paying the remainder either with debt or a combination of debt and our cash. We could pay completely with our cash. We are going to be careful with debt. I mean, we're looking at what we would consider to be low-cost debt, not the more expensive debt that's been known to miners to take in the past. Why we wouldn't use all of our cash and take on some debt is really goes into the question of, do we want to get past 2 exahash? To get another exahash costs money.
So one thing we have to do is conserve the cash we have and use some debt if we want to continue to purchase equipment in 2024. We can't use up all of our cash and then have no cash to help secure debt. So we're going to try and balance this properly. Steve will probably butt in here a little bit and say we are quite conservative when it comes to this. And we do believe some debt is good. Too much debt is bad. And we're really trying to make sure we don't go down some of the paths that our friends in the industry went down a few years ago and took on too much debt thinking that the market would always be on their side. I'm not sure if you have a comment to that, Steven.
Well, I think that's a good place to wrap things up.
All right. Well, then we'll end our call now. We thank everybody for attending. Everybody, have a great New Year break. And we're looking forward to all your questions and comments in the new year. We are trying to be active on Twitter, which is our main area. So I guess you call it X now. I posted something this afternoon. But as always, contact us through our investors at DMG Blockchain if you have any questions. And we will thank Steven and close our call.