Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the conference call for Rubicon Organics' third-quarter financial results for the three and nine months ended September 30, 2024. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded on November 14, 2024. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Instructions will be provided at that time for research analysts to queue up for questions. Before we begin, I will refer you to slide two of our presentation, which contains Rubicon's caution regarding forward-looking statements and Non-GAAP measures. Today's presenters will be Margaret Brodie, CEO, and Janis Risbin, CFO. I will now turn the call over to Margaret Brodie for the presentation.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'm pleased to provide an update on Rubicon Organics and our performance in Q3 2024. I'll be highlighting our achievements as a premium leader in the Canadian cannabis market and discuss our growth opportunities for the remainder of the year and beyond, and then Janis Risbin, our CFO, will cover our financial statements and imminent debt refinancing. In Q3 2024, Rubicon Organics achieved several significant milestones. We achieved record net revenue for both the three and nine-month periods ending September 30, 2024, up 34% and 15% respectively on the prior year. We reported our highest adjusted positive EBITDA for our quarter, and we achieved the second consecutive quarter of profit from operations.
As Canada's leading premium Licensed Producer for four successive quarters, Rubicon continues to maintain a strong market share in premium flower and pre-rolls, premium edibles, and the topical market. After solidifying our position in the aforementioned segments, we embarked on our next phase of growth by leveraging our leading brand strength with our entrance into the vape category in May of this year. We are proud to say that since our vape products have entered the market, they are gaining momentum, becoming our fastest and widest product launch in Rubicon's history. We currently have four SKUs available, with another one launching into market before the end of the year. The vape category presents a significant opportunity for us and is off to a great start.
In the quarter, we maintained our leading premium market position in Canada across all categories, holding a 6.4% of the total premium market for the previous 12 months. For the nine months ended Q3 2024, we held 6.2% of the total premium market, including a 6.2% national market share with our premium organic, non-irradiated flower and pre-rolls. Building on the proven and award-winning strengths of our premium house of brands, we have now successfully diversified our product portfolio and entered multiple new categories. Despite only launching in Q2 of last year, we have already captured and maintained almost 29% of the premium edibles market. In Q3 2023, our market share was only 5%, which increased to almost 23% by Q1 2024 and has maintained in the high 20 s since. I am extremely proud of our team's execution in our entry to the edibles category.
This strong market share capture was a large demonstration of our ability to leverage our leading premium house of brands to successfully launch new products and enter new product categories, as evidenced again with our record-breaking vape launch. As true CPG brands begin to emerge in Canada, we are seeing the positive impact our consumer-loved and bartender-recommended brands have when launching new products. Our vape launch, which focused on delivering the highest quality product, would not have been successful without the strong consumer recognition of our 1964 brand. Looking at our financial results for the three months ended Q3 2024, Rubicon delivered CAD 13.5 million in net revenue and CAD 4.4 million in gross profit before fair value adjustments, resulting in an Adjusted EBITDA of CAD 2 million. We earned CAD 900,000 in operating cash flow for the quarter ending Q3 2024, even with the considerable working capital investment made through our vape launch.
Our biggest growth driver in 2024 is our vape launch, and I'd like to provide an update on our progress. In 2023, the vape category grew to almost CAD 800 million, becoming the fastest-growing significant segment in the Canadian market, and Rubicon is here to take our share of that market. The quality of vapes depends on the caliber of the input flower, and we have paired this with best-in-class hardware. Our premium-quality flavor-forward, true-to-flower full-spectrum extract resin vapes are resonating with our loyal consumers. These vapes have outperformed our launch expectations and are amongst the highest distributed SKUs from the Rubicon portfolio. We've already achieved over 55% national distribution in just six months since launch, despite only launching in three provinces: Alberta, BC, and Ontario.
We have expectations for more growth in the future as consumers begin to learn the experience of a full-spectrum extract, or FSE, versus a distillate consumption experience, and we expect to see a continued shift in consumption behavior towards FSE. This is similar to how we have seen with live rosin and edibles taking share from distillate gummies, and I would like to remind you that Rubicon was the first company to launch live rosin and edibles in Canada, creating the category in 2023. Rubicon debuted our vape line with our best-selling and consumer-loved cultivars: Comatose, Blue Dream, Gelato 41, and now with the limited-time offer of White Rainbow. In the coming weeks, we plan to round out our vape portfolio by introducing our fifth vape SKU in market, Cleopatra.
Given the success of our launch and highly positive feedback from consumers, I remain confident in my earlier estimate that by 2025, vapes will contribute over 20% growth on our 2023 net revenue. As you may be aware, the vape market continues to grow and in Q3 2024 makes up 16% of total Canadian cannabis sales. While the total Canadian cannabis market grows but at a slower pace than in the past, we expect to continue to see the vape market grow at a faster rate than total market, gaining share and approaching around 30% of total Canadian market sales to mirror more established U.S. markets where it ranges from 27% to 30%. There is considerable interest of Gen Z and Millennials in this category, and convenience and improved quality and consistency from the early days of Canadian cannabis plays a large part in the vapes growth.
In Q3, leveraging the strength of our house of premium brands, we have continued to expand our product line by launching new products under each of our flagship brands. For Simply Bare Organic, our super premium cannabis brand targeting the cannabis connoisseur, we launched new and novel genetics such as our BC Organic Pineapple Sour and BC Organic Fire OG. These are ultra-flavorful Quad-Level flower offerings that are only chosen for Simply Bare when they meet all criteria and truly deliver a best-in-class experience. We are extremely specific with what we release under our Simply Bare portfolio and maintaining an unyielding commitment to our brand promise. Under 1964, in addition to extending our vape line, an exciting launch was our mix-and-match variety pack that brings four of our flower cultivars into one bag.
This pack includes some of our recently launched strains, including LA Kush Cake and Stinky Pinky, and is mixed with some of our current and past-loved cultivars. It is great to see the excitement from consumers for enjoying our famous original West Coast legacy strain, Romulan, again. Our flagship wellness brand, Wildflower, continues to lead in innovation in the wellness space. This quarter, we launched Daily Bliss CBD and CBG soft gels, further expanding our wellness product line. A strong leading genetic strategy is vital for leadership in premium cannabis. Our strategy is to launch new and unique offerings, as you can see here in our history in 2023 and in 2024 to date, with only Strawberry Guava and Sour Tangie left to launch in 2024.
Our focus on being a leading innovator of consistently exciting new genetics is similar to other premium leaders in the U.S., such as Cookies and Alien Labs, and in our view, is essential to maintaining our leading premium house of brands. We will remain tight-lipped on the subject, but we have incredible work going on behind the scenes on our genetic offerings, and I believe our innovation and evolution in our genetic strategy will continue to strengthen and provide meaningful competitive advantage going forward. I will now pass the call on to Janis, who will share some specifics about our financials.
Thank you, Margaret, and good morning, everyone. We achieved a record-high net revenue for a single quarter, totaling CAD 13.5 million and the highest consecutive nine-month net revenue of CAD 34.5 million. This success comes despite a softer Q1 base, influenced by the typical seasonality and lingering weak consumer sentiment that we saw earlier this year. Importantly, even with our investment in ERP in 2024, we've achieved another quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA, achieving this for eight out of the last nine quarters, and we've maintained positive operating cash flow for seven out of the last eight quarters. Our gross profit for the quarter stands at CAD 4.4 million, with a gross margin of 32%. This return to gross margin is in line with previous years.
We did experience a dip in Q1 2024 to 25%, but the return to 30% in Q2 2024 and now back to 32% is due to our refocus over the previous six months. 2023 was impacted by market trends that began in the second half of last year, such as price compression and a shift toward lower-priced, larger formats. We have maintained relative strength within the premium category as we have adapted by innovating our product lineup to meet customer demand, albeit with lower margins. Following the trend of declining prices, we are beginning to feel more confident with the stabilizing of prices in the market and are seeing signs of supply starting to tighten. Our vape launch, with the first sale made in mid-May 2024, has delivered promising results.
We are starting to see data come through Hifyre. However, it will be another couple of quarters before we see meaningful market share. We've invested CAD 600,000 in our ERP implementation 2024 project to date, which is crucial for our future growth but has depressed our Adjusted EBITDA this year by that amount. Cash flows continue to improve, resulting in just under CAD 1 million in operating cash flow for the three months, adding to the CAD 1.1 million generated in Q2 2024, comparing to the CAD 0.9 million cash outflow in the first quarter, bringing year-to-date cash flow to CAD 1.1 million. The dip in Q1 was due to working capital investment and weaker results due to consumer sentiment. We are now benefiting from those working capital investments as well as our focus on more profitable SKUs over the past six months, reflecting better results.
While Q1's Adjusted EBITDA and operating cash flow were lower than in recent periods and decreased our full year 2024 results, these investments were necessary to position us for continued growth. We remain confident in our outlook for continued net revenue growth, an increase in Adjusted EBITDA compared to 2023 when you exclude the ERP investment, and positive operating cash flow for the year, as evidenced by our Q2 and Q3 results. We earned CAD 158,000 of profit from operations in the quarter, increasing from CAD 119,000 in the second quarter. Our working capital position continues to support our plans, and we are progressing towards refinancing our long-term debt. While we don't have specific news to share today, please stay tuned as we expect to be announcing our refinancing before the end of the year.
As in previous calls, I want to take this opportunity to confirm that we continue to be current with all of our excise tax obligations. For the three and nine months ended September 30, 2024, our total market share in the flower and pre-rolls category held steady at 2.0%, consistent with prior periods. However, according to Hifyre data, total Canadian cannabis sales have declined by 2% from Q3 2023 to Q3 2024 on a rolling 12-month basis. Despite this challenging market environment, our company has maintained its leadership position in the overall premium market across all categories in Canada and grown our net revenue. We have achieved a market share of 6.2% in the premium category for the quarter ending September 30, 2024, up from 5% for the same period last year, despite large-scale competition within the category.
The success is largely driven by our flagship brand, Simply Bare Organic, and 1964 Supply Co. Both Simply Bare and 1964 have faced challenging market conditions and pricing pressures this year. In 2024, we've experienced some mixed performance. For Simply Bare, we've observed a steady market presence in both premium flower and premium pre-rolls. Over the past 12 months leading up to Q3 2024, the brand's premium market share has remained consistent at 1.8% for flower and 2.7% for pre-rolls, unchanged from the prior year. For 1964, while we've seen growth in the flower and pre-roll segments compared to the previous quarter, there has been a decline from last year due to the later timing of new genetic launches based across 2024. Nevertheless, innovation continues to drive 1964 forward.
We've achieved strong growth in edibles and successfully launched our vapes in May 2024, which have both significantly contributed to our overall company net revenue growth. Additionally, since July, our recently refreshed flower portfolio has been exceptionally well received, with strains like LA Kush Cake and Stinky Pinky generating new excitement and energy in the market for the brand's flower and pre-rolls. Wildflower continues to excel in the wellness category with net revenue growth fueled by the extension of our range. This includes the new Wildflower Sport Stick and the Wildflower Minor Cannabinoid Gummies. In 2024, we've seen an influx of more topical products entering the market. Despite having a smaller portfolio of topical products compared to others, we are confident that our focus on quality will lead to continued success.
In many categories, our products are more expensive than competitors, but we believe that our customers know our quality and are loyal to our brand, and our leading premium share position, as well as recent bartender recognition, proves that belief. While other brands may attract initial purchases due to lower prices, they often fail to secure repeat customers. Despite a low number of topical SKUs in our portfolio, we continue to maintain a strong 28% market share. We find that once customers experience the quality of our Wildflower topicals, they keep coming back. This loyalty has led to some market share fluctuations over the last couple of quarters, but we remain optimistic about our long-term position.
The trend of declining gross profit before fair value adjustments is primarily due to factors we've previously discussed as trends across Canadian cannabis: price pressures in the flower categories, an adverse product mix shift towards larger, lower-priced formats, and innovation in lower-margin categories. Additionally, we experienced large-scale success in some product formats produced outside of our Delta facility, requiring us to sacrifice some margin. However, the strategy lays the foundation for future growth. The uptick in gross profit in Q2 2024 and again in Q3 2024 is a result of our efforts to attract consumers back to our more profitable products, and we continue to evaluate margin-accretive opportunities as we build out our forward strategy for the business. We remain confident that 2024 will deliver another profitable year, as reflected in our Q3 results. I would now like to turn the meeting back to Margaret.
Thank you, Janis. As it is well documented, the Canadian cannabis market is challenged by many factors, including excise taxes and the strength of the black market. But the total market continues to grow off of a base of over CAD 5 billion. Brands are beginning to emerge. Provincial distributors are streamlining their brand offerings to retailers, and we are seeing demand for Canadian products from international medical markets. All of these are positive for Rubicon, given where we are positioned in market. Rubicon is unique in the Canadian cannabis sector. We are Canada's number one premium LP with a premium house of brands that is a proven launchpad for new products.
For two years in a row, holding two of the top five most recommended brands by budtenders in Simply Bare Organic and 1964, reaching number one premium edibles position in the country with 30% market share within a year of launch and achieving 55% national distribution for our vapes in six months since launch. Rubicon holds unique IP and is now positioned as the world's leading scaled certified organic cannabis company with an extensive genetics library. We are disciplined operators delivering consistent premium quality to distributors, retailers, and consumers. Part of this means we are a trusted and top-ranked supplier with provincial distributors, and this is important as they hold the decisions on product listings available to retailers. We're also focused on improving our in-house processes, building a handbook for repeatability and readiness for the future.
We're taking our operations to the next level with leadership in genetics, ensuring we stay ahead of the competition. We have national brand distribution across all key provinces where we cover 99% of the addressable Canadian cannabis market and are regularly receiving calls for demand of our products internationally, and our business operates with disciplined financial management, which contributed to our delivering of our expected third consecutive fiscal year of positive adjusted EBITDA, and we are one of the few profitable publicly traded Canadian cannabis companies. We maintain a solid balance sheet that we anticipate being stronger before the end of this year, and as we expect to refinance our debt for the long term at rates similar to our current debenture, sitting at 7.5% interest rate.
As I've noted previously, we are carefully evaluating and executing supply and manufacturing agreements with best-in-class operators who are able to maintain our very discerning standards. We have now successfully executed on multiple relationships for our edibles, soft gels, vape inputs, and vape productions. We continue to see high demand for our brand, and we believe there is an opportunity to capture further growth by expanding our contract relationships to increase our capacity. To that end, we are now planning to secure an additional 20% increase in 2025 flower capacity through high-quality supply relationships done the proven Rubicon way.
As evidenced by our strong edible and vape launches that are earning leading premium share position, our reputation with budtenders and consumer trust allows us a significant house of brands platform to scale upon, and we continue to carefully increase our volumes to capture unserviced capacity to constrain demand for our brands. We are starting to see supply dynamics tightening from indebted operators going out of business and large operators shutting facilities and going asset light. In coming quarters, we anticipate ongoing pressure on companies to settle excise payments. Some may navigate through receivership and re-emerge, while others may cease operations entirely. We've already observed a decline in the number of LPs in market over the past year.
Rubicon has achieved and continued to work on our key strategic projects in 2024, and in the near term, we are looking to deliver, firstly, the final SKU launch of our FSE resin vape under 1964, having now rolled out four of the planned five portfolios through 2024, and we expect to demonstrate the power of our brand positioning and flower input quality. Our ERP implementation to ready Rubicon for growth, and lastly, refinancing of our debenture due December 31, 2031 for long-term financing at around the same interest rate as existing terms. With our premium house of brands, solid balance sheet, and positive trajectory, we expect to deliver continued growth in net revenue, accompanied by adjusted EBITDA for the full year, as well as positive operating cash flow. We would now like to open the line for analyst questions. Operator, please open the line.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star followed by the one on your touch-tone phone. Questions will be taken in the order received. Should you wish to cancel your request, please press the star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. Once again, that is star one should you wish to ask a question. Your first question is from Neal Gilmer from Haywood Securities. Your line is now open.
Yeah, thanks very much and good morning. Margaret, I want to clarify, or maybe I don't know if I heard it correctly in your prepared remarks. I thought it was something along the lines of you're anticipating 20% growth over 2023 net revenue with your vape momentum that you've seen so far, or can you sort of elaborate on that or clarify what I may or may not have heard there? Apologies what I missed.
No, great. Thanks, Neal. Good morning. When we look at 2025, we were looking at the base of 2023, and that stat came from when we launched vape. We made a call on how big it would be part of our portfolio. That was back in May. That remains unchanged, that we expect vape on our 2023 revenues to grow to about 20% of where our 2023 revenues was, so increasing our base overall.
Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. And then in the press release, you touched a little bit on your prepared remarks. Just clarifying here that you're expecting growth in 2024, but much of that comes from your branded products that use external capacity. So when you refer to branded products there, you've obviously got your brands of your flowers coming out of your facility here in Delta, but you're more talking about what the vapes and edibles there that are putting a little bit of pressure on the gross margin?
That's exactly right. And actually, I'm going to pass that one to Janis. I think she's best to dive into the mix.
Yeah. I think essentially whenever you have more people involved in the supply chain, right, margins get split across a couple of places. And so as we've seen growth opportunities in those categories where we've partnered with others, we've shared the margin a little bit, and that's the right thing to do to drive growth and leverage those partnerships. But we're definitely starting to see the gross margin turn the other way and ease. We know that we were lapping last year. This time last year is when we really started to see the price pressures in the market and starting to feel like our gross margin is stabilizing now.
Yeah. And we've been talking, Neal, a lot internally about we're seeing a lot of tightening in the Canadian supply in Canada with the international demand coming in. So the question is, is there going to be an opportunity? Is the market going to start to take price? And what categories will do that? And I think that's the 2025 story potentially, and probably too early to tell, but I think all companies are probably musing what's happening out there with that.
Okay. Great. Thanks very much.
Thanks.
Thank you. Your next question is from Andrew Semple from Ventum Financial. Your line is now open.
Good morning, Margaret and Janis. Congrats on the Q3 results here. How do you feel about the breadth of the vape portfolio, which will be at five SKUs shortly as you're looking into 2025? Do you think there's room to expand that portfolio further, or are you happy tackling the market with more of a focused approach as you look at the vape category?
Great question. We've looked and done quite a bit of analysis on the marketing team, and shout out to them. In terms of what is the right SKU portfolio, we see in market having more SKUs. You tend to have with our competitors, if they've got eight to 12, they really have two or three with momentum and probably two with real momentum that do the majority of the sales. There's quite a long tail on that. So our approach has been to have our core SKUs, and they really start with our absolutely loved cultivars, and they've got real momentum, and then we'll probably take more of a limited-time offer on individual strain approach. I think with vape, I think 1964 is not the end, and what we've already launched is not the end of the story for Rubicon.
I'm not going to say what the next part of the story is, but we're obviously exploring how we can use our other brands and differentiate and pull apart to the right offerings at the right price for the right quality for our consumers. But again, let's make sure we've really got 1964 nailed. It's the engine of our business. And from there, you may see more from that in the second half of 2025.
That's helpful. And then maybe just now that you've got a couple of quarters with some of your contract manufacturing partners and in market with those partners there, maybe just an update on how those relationships are going and whether you think you can continue to lean into your existing partners or what other opportunities there might be out there.
That's a great question. Look, we see our partners are a critical part of our business. Our suppliers are a critical part of our business. They are not just suppliers. They are partners. We need them to be successful for us to be successful with our brand. And I think the partners that we have in place are operating very, very, very well. Whether it's we're working with Loosh for our edibles, Blue Sky with our Wildflower brand, and I want to shout out to those businesses because they're very effective. I won't say the flower and vape, but we do have some really exciting things on the horizon that we're working on and new partnerships. We work very hard to make sure we're maintaining quality.
And you'll notice that there was a shout out to an expectation and a plan to increase our premium flower offering across the business by 20% next year in 2025. And I think that tells you that we are working very hard to secure additional quality biomass. What we're finding is we have the brands, and there are some great growers out there, but they don't have the route to market.
Great. That's helpful. And then maybe just one last quick one, if I may. Just wanted to ask on the debt refinancing. It sounds like you're expecting to be able to make some sort of announcement there in the relatively near term. Just maybe want to share your thoughts on what are the remaining steps to that process and how you're feeling about the probability of closing that in a timely manner.
We're always guarding our words because, as any finance person would tell you, it's not closed until it's closed. We have been working long on this to get the right deal for Rubicon rather than the fastest deal for Rubicon, which sets us up, and we're looking for a long-term partnership. Janis, maybe you can speak to what's next.
Yeah. So I'd say we're progressing very well, kind of in the later stages, and looking forward to being able to lock it in and confirm details shortly. Margaret said earlier, we're expecting to be at similar rates. So we're at the point where those terms are discussed and are there. So yeah, watch this space.
Yeah. We can't say anything until it's done, right? I think the closing is everything, but I would say that management has high confidence at this stage. And I believe our partners are very comfortable, and our board is comfortable with us saying that. Always with the finance person hat that says, "Let's just cross the line," and you'll see that done before the end of the year from us.
Understood. The color was helpful there. Thanks for taking my questions. I'll get back into Q.
Thanks, Andrew.
Thank you. Your next question is from Jesse Redmond from Water Tower Research. Your line is now open.
Good morning, Margaret and Janis. First question is about the vape market. I know that's been growing about 15% per year in Canada for the last couple of years. And I'm curious if you're considering diversifying across different input oils, meaning having distillate, live resin, and rosin cartridges to hit some different price points and different consumers there. And also, if you're considering diversifying across different form factors and adding an all-in-one to complement the 510?
Jesse, our marketing team would be smiling listening to you. We like to do one thing at a time very well. The success of vape has been really tremendous in the way that it went out. I think it goes to show when Rubicon focuses on something, we focus on it, and we execute it well. There is additional opportunity. I think on the distillate question, I don't know if that's where Rubicon will play. I don't think I've seen the numbers that make that work for us, and our customers are looking for a more premium experience than that. As I said in my remarks, we find when people often start with the distillate, whether it's in a gummy or vape, and as they experience a live rosin or a live resin, the consumer shifts across. It's not a high-priced differential to get a much better experience.
In terms of all-in-one, we don't have listings, and we don't have the gate. We're trying to make sure that we can deliver the quality on it, but all of that is being explored for us, probably with the distillate. I think there's going to be some very interesting opportunities. Look, we're seeing growth in the international markets across flower, but I think oil will be the next story after that, and it's the next natural story, so I think watch this space over the next couple of years as well.
Great. That's a good transition to my second question. I was going to ask you about international opportunities. I know that market has historically not had much premium flower or premium products. Do you see an opportunity there?
Absolutely, and look, Rubicon was looking at entering a couple of years ago and did quite a bit of work. Wanted to focus on the Canadian market, build the brand, do what we do very well. We are now seeing, I would say, an absolute avalanche of inbound demand for premium flower. We believe pricing in the international markets with competition between countries is going to actually go in a positive direction over the short term. I don't know how long that will last as various markets turn up, in particular the demand from Australia, the U.K., and Germany, but now with other Eastern countries opening up. I think I'm comfortable to say that Rubicon will be entering that market in 2025. And we're looking at opportunities to grow our business quickly and deliver growth on both the top and the bottom line in 2025.
And you'll see more guidance on that as we get into the new year from us. But we're focused on delivering 2024 and setting ourselves up for a solid 2025 as well. And look, international markets like anywhere, one of the things you've heard is there's always been a lot of crap weed out there. There's never been enough good weed. And the legacy markets would tell you that as well.
That's great. Thank you very much.
Thanks, Jesse.
Thank you once again. That is star one. Should you wish to ask a question? And your next question is from Josh Felker from CB1 Capital. Your line is now open.
Morning, Rubicon. Congratulations on the quarter.
Thanks, Josh.
I might have a three-parter for you. I hope that's okay. You noted the additional flower capacity in your commentary and in your strategy to expand that. I'm just interested, would that expanded capacity be utilized for branded sales, further increasing vape capacity, entering new segments, maybe that international segment you just spoke about, another purpose? Just interested in what that would be utilized for. Thank you.
Great question. Look, we have demand that we cannot supply in Canada, in particular under 1964. Simply Bare Organic is organic product. Our Delta facility in our home is Delta. We'd love to grow the share of Simply Bare and grow that. My goal would be three to five years that all of that is out there. I don't know where the market will be in three to five years. I've got some ideas. 1964, our goal would be to sell as much 1964 of that additional capacity we can in Canada first to continue to grow our brands here. But we have excess supplies and excess opportunity. The international markets, and looking to those to satisfy those and take advantage of price arbitrage as well, we are absolutely pursuing.
So I would say if you think about an ordering in our facility, it's selling Simply Bare, then 1964 out of Delta, make sure we've got our cost base covered, and then everything going into Canada and beyond that, looking to take opportunities in the international markets. And you'll hear more from that on us in the new year. I think that's probably a 2025 story for Rubicon. This year has really been laying the foundations for what's to come. And I would say that we're optimistic and excited about where the business is going.
Got it. And it might be that my second part of my question is a little different, so I apologize. And that's why I'm going to be asking you three. But on that 1964 brand, you've continually mentioned being capacity constrained for years while expanding it. I'm just wondering, do you have any idea on what that ceiling could be for demand within that brand?
We do. We do find it varies. We're sensitive to economy and what the strains are that are in market. We have to have the right genetic portfolio. I'm trying to think about how to. Janis is looking at me. It really shifts. Planning in cannabis is tricky based on what our competitors have in market, etc. Look, I think that the '64 brand in the next year could. I think a low-end growth number would be 10%. Without me doing a couple more checks, I think I'd say over 10%, but I genuinely believe it's more than that. I just don't have a number. I'll get back to you, and we can talk offline about that. Thank you, though, for the question. There is. We do have a very large unconstrained demand model.
We're very excited about the momentum with the work that we've done on the legacy cannabis to get into '64. And the quality that's going into that brand at the price point is just really tremendous in market.
I appreciate that. Looking forward to when you start not every quarter mentioning that there's a demand for this that you can't fulfill. So just interested in, as you increase those velocities behind those brands, any levers or strategies that you're going to pull that could also help increase those volumes? I know that your marketing spend is probably lower versus peers, but just interested in your non-branded expansion strategy and how you plan on supporting that.
Great question. We've been actively discussing that this fall. Look, we're about 5.8% on our sales and marketing spend on net revenue, much lower than our peers. We've done a study on that. Our peers range from sort of 8%-12%. Classic CPG would be higher than that. We're probably looking to let a little of the purse strings because we believe that the consumer and budtenders are really starting to take hold with our brand. I don't think what you're going to see from Rubicon is saying, "Hey, we're spending another CAD 5 million on the brand." Everything we do will be a test and learn, cement what we've got, make sure it's working, see the return, and so I think that line probably next year will grow, but it will grow off the back of growth in the overall volume.
Super. Appreciate the answers. Congratulations on the quarter.
Thanks, Josh.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will now hand the call back to Margaret Brodie for the closing remarks.
Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. We are focused on our business strategy and delivering positive results to ultimately drive value for our shareholders. We are the number one premium licensed producer in Canada, and we're looking forward to continuing strong, profitable performance from our premium house of brands. I really look forward to presenting our year-end results in the coming months and sharing some more exciting developments, including a debt update in the very imminent future. Thank you very much, everyone.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.