Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sabio Holdings Q4 and Full Year 2024 Earnings Call. The financial statements and MD&A have been filed and can be accessed through the SEDAR website. Today is Tuesday, March the 18th, 2025, and joining us are Aziz Rahimtoola, Founder and CEO, and Sajid Premji, CFO of Sabio Holdings. They will be presenting the company's Q4 and full year results, as well as the company's growth plans, followed by a Q&A session. Only analysts can ask questions live by pressing the raise hand button to unmute themselves. Investors are encouraged to submit their questions via the Q&A box, and we will address them at the end of the session along with any other questions that have been submitted in advance.
Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made today may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors. For a complete description of the risks and uncertainties facing the company, please refer to the annual information form, MD&A, and other continuous disclosure filings, which are also available on the SEDAR website. Also note that all figures discussed today are in U.S. dollars unless stated otherwise. With that, I turn it over to Aziz.
Thank you, Martin, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Q4 and full year 2024 financial call. We are excited to report that our rev, reach, engage, and validate full tech stack approach to ad-supported streaming has delivered record top line and bottom line growth. In fact, Q4 marks the third straight quarter of double digit top line growth, translating to above 40% over the last three quarters of 2024 collectively. Our teams flawlessly executed on our key 2024 objectives, which included core growth, core business growth, record political revenue, growth in international markets, along with balance sheet improvement, new product launches, including our Creator TV performance, programmatic offerings, further solidifying our App Science household graph and growing that to 80 million homes, all while delivering strong margins of 60% and increasing operating leverage.
Since the founding of the company more than 10 years ago, we never veered from our belief that data rich and privacy compliant in-app experiences could benefit advertisers from a targeting and insights perspective. In the decade that has gone by, the app ecosystem has expanded from not only being on your phone to being integrated into every aspect of your life. We'd like to say you are what you app, including on your TV in the form of ad- supported streaming apps. Sabio and its wholly owned data and analytics subsidiary App Science have continued to benefit from the proliferation of streaming app usage and the need of insights in a highly competitive and fragmented media market. Our stickiness has demonstrated by a 90% recurring business model, with 70% of our top customers increasing share of voice.
Overall, we are extremely pleased with our execution, and how this is all coming about is really driven by our proprietary household graph. You basically, how that comes, how that comes into play, 280 million mobile devices every month are in our system, cross referenced to 110 CTV households, TVs that then give us 80 million validated homes. That is our household graph, and that household graph is unique and proprietary. In comparison, 80 million homes relative to 30,000 Nielsen panel makes a key difference for brands such as Toyota, McDonald's, and many others. On that note, I will hand it over to Sajid to talk about our numbers a little bit. Sajid.
Thanks, Aziz. Sabio completed the fourth quarter of 2024 with the best quarterly and annual financial results in its history, achieving record consolidated revenues and profitability. Our shift to a streaming sales model from a mobile display dependent model has delivered a robust 39% compound annual growth rate since 2020, increased customer retention, and substantial cost efficiencies. We closed 2024 with $49.6 million U.S. in consolidated sales, or close to CAD 70 million based on average exchange rates, up 38% from the year before. Meanwhile, adjusted EBITDA margins expanded to close to 8%, culminating in $3.8 million U.S. in adjusted EBITDA for the year, or close to CAD 5 million, as our CAGR and profit margins combined surpassed 40%. The fourth quarter was the strongest financial quarter in Sabio's history. For the three months ended December 31st, 2024, we generated $18.3 million U.S.
in sales, up 44% from the prior year. The increase in sales was primarily driven by robust growth in our ad- supported streaming business and strong 90% recurring revenue rates. Sabio's unique capabilities to reach, engage, and validate target audiences continue to benefit our political offering and our overall business at large. Normalized for $2.4 million U.S. in fourth quarter revenues from political campaigns, consolidated revenues grew by a robust 25% during the fourth quarter compared to the prior year's quarter, as Sabio's branded business continues to fire on all cylinders. By segment, ad- supported streaming sales grew 57% to $14.5 million U.S. compared to $9.2 million U.S. in the same period last year, or 32% when normalized for political campaigns. For the fourth straight quarter, ad- supported streaming sales once again outpaced the 16.2% growth rate for the U.S.
Ad- supported streaming industry at large as we continue to take market share. Ad- supported streaming continues to be our dominant sales category, accounting for 79% of our overall sales mix, up from 73% in the fourth quarter of 2023. 5% of Sabio's fourth quarter ad- supported streaming revenues came from our new international business, Sabio Unlimited, which continues to pick up steam, generating over $1.4 million in revenues in its first full year of operations. Sabio's ad- supported streaming sales feature lower OpEx and predictable and sustained growth through high customer retention rates. 90% of our sales in 2024, excluding political campaigns and those from our new international business, came from repeat customers compared to 76% in the prior year's period.
70% of our top branded customers increased their spend with Sabio from the prior year's period, and meanwhile, 41% of the brands who spent with Sabio during the year were new logos, presenting new opportunities to expand our revenue base in the quarters to come. The strength in our fourth quarter sales also extended to mobile display, which grew 16% to $3.6 million U.S. from $3.1 million U.S. in the fourth quarter of 2023. On a trailing 12-month basis, our ad- supported streaming business now represents a record 78% of our sales mix as we continue to capitalize on one of the fastest growing categories in advertising. Within the span of four short years, we have completely transformed ourselves from a company that generated just 8% of trailing 12-month sales from ad- supported streaming four years ago.
The business continues to accelerate, and impressively, Sabio generated more ad- supported streaming sales in 2024, $38.6 million U.S., than consolidated sales across all revenue categories in 2023. The inherent cost efficiencies in transitioning to an ad- supported streaming sales model from one more dependent on mobile display continues to drive gains in our operating leverage. For the fourth quarter ending December 31, 2024, Sabio delivered a quarterly record $2.8 million in adjusted EBITDA while continuing to invest in our key growth pillars, including our growing international business and the commercial launches of our new programmatic ad- supported streaming, performance marketing, and Creator TV product offerings. All of these segments are expected to contribute to revenues in 2025 and beyond.
Meanwhile, our end-to-end technology stack, powered by our proprietary App Science cross-stream graph and featuring several direct supply integrations, continues to support strong gross margins, with both fourth quarter and year-end gross margins improving to 62% from 61% in the prior year's comparable periods. All of this resulted in the highest annual adjusted EBITDA gain and adjusted EBITDA margins in the public company, with a 2024 adjusted EBITDA profit of $3.8 million compared to a $1.8 million loss in the previous year, representing an 8% adjusted EBITDA margin. The company used its improved cash flow during the year to pay down its debt by $1.9 million, ending the year with $5.2 million outstanding under a three-year $10 million credit facility compared to $7.1 million in the previous year. Sabio also ended the year with $3.3 million in cash on hand, up from $2.6 million in the previous year.
Armed with a stronger balance sheet, a more predictable sales model, and increased product channels and geographical reach, Sabio expects continued sustainable growth in 2025, with first quarter visibility indicating double-digit growth. At quarter end, we had 50.5 million shares outstanding, 3 million options and RSUs outstanding, and convertible debt convertible into 1.74 million shares at an exercise price of CAD 1. Insiders continue to own 55% of the company, with high alignment between our management team and the interests of our stockholders. As part of our insider ownership group, our founder and CEO, Aziz Rahimtoola, holds 46% of the company. As detailed in the MD&A, during the company's building years of 2019 to 2021, he voluntarily elected to receive reduced and sometimes irregular compensation. In recognition of this, the company forgave a $936,000 loan to Mr.
Rahimtoola in the amount that is less than the difference in compensation he was entitled to receive during that period. This forgiveness also reflects his early-stage financial support of the company and his leadership through his transition into a public entity. Management continues to believe the current market valuation of our stock does not reflect the fundamental strength and growth potential of our business, and during the fourth quarter, commenced modest share repurchases under our normal course issuer bid program at prices between CAD 0.42 and CAD 0.50. While reinvesting within the business remains our bias for capital deployment, we believe such opportunistic repurchases will provide an attractive return to our shareholders, as demonstrated by these purchases being significantly below current market prices. Back to you, Aziz.
Thank you, Sajid. Before we move into the Q&A portion of the call, I want to take a moment to reflect on the tremendous progress we've made. 2024 was a record-breaking year for Sabio, with the strongest quarterly and annual financial results in our history. We delivered 38% year-over-year revenue growth, achieving $49.6 million consolidated sales, and expanded our adjusted EBITDA to $3.8 million, demonstrating both top-line momentum and improved profitability. Our ad supported streaming business continues to accelerate, now representing 78% of our total sales mix, and we're seeing strong customer retention. This success is a testament to the strength of our strategy, the value of our proprietary data and technology, and the execution of our incredible teams. With a stronger balance sheet, expanding product offerings, and geographic locations, continued market share gains, we are well positioned for sustainable growth in 2025 and beyond.
With that, let's open up the floor to questions. Back to you.
Thank you very much. Speakers, I believe you are turning on your videos now.
That's right.
Thank you very much. The first question we have, one sec here, is from Daniel Rosenberg of Paradigm Capital, and you should be available to speak now.
Thanks. Good morning, Aziz and Sajid. Congrats on a strong year-end. My first question was around the international expansion. I know you made a few, some minor hiring in the U.K. market. So I'm just wondering about, you know, what degree of investment you plan on doing there when you think about international expansion, or is it more broad-based than that?
Good morning, Daniel. Thank you for your question. At this point, what we're doing is we are, we've not only hired only in the U.K., but we've also hired in Turkey. Our view is that we are still in the early stages of the process. We're dipping our toes into the international market. We're seeing a lot of great momentum overall. At the same time, we have a huge opportunity here in the U.S., the biggest ad market in the world. You know, it really is, as always, a balancing act. While we want to see, while we see the opportunity, acceleration opportunity in international markets, we see a lot of opportunity here. Yes, we are going to continue adding, but it's going to be very targeted and precise in terms of measured in terms of our resource usage.
Sajid, anything you want to add to that for international markets?
I think that was well said, Aziz. I would just like to add that the international unit is already profitable. You know, there isn't a lot of overhead required. The good thing about our business is that we're able to leverage our North American and tech stack to facilitate these U.K. campaigns. You know, we're able to leverage technology that already exists to fulfill these campaign requirements.
Daniel, you know, as we've talked about in past calls, Creator TV, which we just launched, is now available globally, our channel, our exclusive channel. That is also going to be an entry point not only as it relates to the European market, but specifically, we've had a fully owned subsidiary in India since 2016. That subsidiary is positioned well for us to expand. We have engineering, data science, and operations out there in India. We're already, you know, preset to go out and start expanding in the largest market in the world, which is India, which is 1.3 billion people. We're excited about that opportunity as well. It's just a matter of, you know, leveraging Creator TV and some of the other assets we have to start expanding out there.
Thanks. Appreciate that color. I guess turning more domestically or U.S.-centrically, you know, I heard in the ecosystem a bit of uncertainty, obviously, with tariffs and trade wars, et cetera. I think about some, you know, key advertising verticals like automotive. You know, what are you guys seeing on the front line when it comes to budgeting and how you're thinking about your outlook?
Thus far, Canada is not the 51st state. You know, there is a lot of noise being made in Washington. Fortunately, our advertisers are not, you know, at this point, being affected by it. We have diversified our verticals. Automotive, at one point, was our top vertical. That was back in 2023. Now we have diversified to where telco has become one of our largest verticals, followed by advocacy and political. You know, then you have quick service restaurants and automotive playing additional elements there. That is to tell you that we have diversified a lot. No one is immune to the issues that are happening, you know, the questionable communication and strategy that is happening out of Washington. We are positioned well. As it relates to being positioned for next year's midterm election cycles, we are positioned incredibly well.
Not only are we going to benefit from a diversification this year and an acceleration, but we're going to benefit next year because the turmoil that's in Washington, D.C. right now means a lot of money is going to be flowing into the political midterm election cycles, which we are positioned well in. You know, while we haven't seen anything yet, we do think there will be some effects in Q3, Q4 if this tariff situation is not dealt with properly as Washington should be doing. Sajid, anything?
I think that was well said, Aziz. I think that, you know, what differentiates ourselves this year going into 2025 is that we have a more predictable sales model. We have a 90% recurring customer rate, right? You know, we're able to be more proactive than reactive. If there are any headwinds coming, I'm sure we'll be able to adjust accordingly. Big picture, we're outpacing the market and taking market share. If there is an economic downturn, we still feel that we're very well positioned to keep doing so.
Okay. Good to hear. In terms of that predictability, can we dive down a bit deeper? Could you help us understand just how much visibility you have? Like, what gives you the confidence, you know, to look more deeply in the year? Like, are these locked-in contracts today? Is it the number of leads you have? Could you just help us understand how you see the pipeline?
Yeah. I think that I can start off. I think that, you know, looking at our pipeline for Q1, for example, we're already seeing double-digit growth. We exited 2024, if you exclude election campaigns, with a 25% growth in our business. We're seeing similar trends take hold in the quarter. We're seeing strong traction in Q2 already. I think that, you know, there is obviously some unknowns with this current tariff situation that could change the calculus. Right now, we're seeing a lot of positive signs. Taking a step back, we also have some upfront media commitments as well. We've been able to grow our commitments over 2024. There will be more information coming out shortly on what that number is, but we're seeing growth in that category as well.
All of that, plus a 90% recurring customer retention rate, you know, bodes very well for our predictability.
What we're also finding, Daniel, is, look, our secret sauce, and I probably should have been a little bit more clear in my presentation earlier, but that ad science graph is the key differentiation here, is the fact that, you know, when we have an 80 million household reach in terms of insights and understanding. As the market continues to become more fragmented and diverse, which 48%-49% of the U.S. population is now diverse, sorry, 12-24-year-olds, and we have a deeper understanding there, it allows us to have a unique positioning. We're filling a need. That's what advertisers have told us. That's why, to Sajid's point, now, that's not to say we're immune to, you know, the tariffs and, you know, the things that are potentially going to happen.
We think that if they are going to manifest, they will manifest themselves further out in Q3, Q4. Thus far, as it relates to Q1 and Q2, we're not seeing any effects of that yet, not to say we won't.
Understood. Understood. My last question was just around the profitability of the company. You guys hit kind of record numbers as a public company, but obviously, you're confident in the core business, the differentiated positioning that you have. Just wondering from an investment perspective, like, is this a good baseline to think of the company from a profitability point of view? Are there incremental investments, or do you see yourself increasing the margin profile? Just how are you thinking about balancing the growth versus investment?
I think this year, we're really not interested in optimizing our EBITDA margins. This year is, you know, we do believe there's going to be some investments. From a profile perspective, this is where we do believe is a good baseline. We can continue to kind of operate from here. We do think that as it relates to next year, that's where you will start seeing additional margin gains. This is the year the way to think about our company is in the off-election years, we will perform well. As Sajid pointed out, our core business was up 20+% in the last, you know, few quarters of the year.
We will continue executing on the core business, but we also need to invest and get ready for next year because, once again, next year is going to be a bloodbath of money again for midterms and political cycle. Just to give you some context, we're an L.A.-based company. The last time there was an L.A. City Mayor's race, $130 million was spent just on the L.A. City Mayor's race. We have a governor's race of California. We have midterm elections, which is like Senate seats and House seats. You know, our objective has always been, and you could see it with our growth rates. We grow 30+% in off-years. We grow 60+% in political years.
That means we have to prepare and get ready for what we believe is going to be another incredible year while we're profitable this year, while we execute on our growth priorities this year. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
No, no, that was well said.
Thanks for taking my questions. Congrats again on a strong finish to the year.
Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it.
Thank you very much. Our next question is from Nicholas Cortellucci from Atrium Research.
Guys, congrats on a good quarter here.
Thank you.
Just a couple of questions here. Maybe if you could tell us a bit more about your comfort levels with the balance sheet given the convertible notes come due in August. Are you guys comfortable with the balance sheet and, you know, the cash flow cadency here?
Yeah, yeah. It's a good question. I think that.
Thank you for your question. Thank you for your question, Nicholas. Appreciate the thank you for joining us. I know Sajid will take that. Sorry, Sajid, go ahead.
Perfect. Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think that we're in a lot better situation entering this year than we were the year before. Not only do we have higher cash reserves, but we have almost CAD 2 million of less debt. We feel very comfortable in our ability to pay back this convertible note quite easily, which is, by the way, denominated in Canadian dollars. We have seen a favorable move in the FX rate since we issued that note back in 2023. We have seen no challenges with us being able to pay off that note in full when the time comes.
Okay, perfect. The other question I had was about the mobile segment. We've seen two quarters here of positive growth kind of breaking the trend we've seen over the last couple of years. What's driving that, and what should we expect from the segment going forward?
Despite our best efforts, you know, to focus in on just CTV OTT, mobile continues to grow. And here's why. Basically, our advertisers enjoy using mobile from a lower funnel tactic perspective. So we will, you know, our focus is CTV OTT is higher funnel, and we have also a new performance product, which is going to be using more mobile. So you're going to see, you probably, you know, will see some growth in mobile because of the fact that while we use CTV OTT at a higher funnel, the cross-reference capability we have and cross-targeting capability we have at that IP level, and that, you know, goes back to the household graph, is rich and it's effective. And that's why our advertisers continue wanting to use mobile overall.
We do think that you will see some growth in mobile because our performance business, as it continues to accelerate, it will use more mobile than it did in the past. We will be able to grow both segments simultaneously is our expectation. We have hit a low in mobile. You know, you will start seeing, you know, our focus has always been to, as Sajid mentioned, we had less than 8% when we, you know, in mobile when we went before we went public, during the time we went public. Now it is 70% plus. We can continue seeing CTV OTT continue growing while the mobile starts taking, you know, starts ticking up again.
Perfect. Okay, understood. The last question here is just about Creator TV. What's been the response so far from advertisers, and when can we kind of expect a revenue contribution?
Advertisers are beyond excited. They like the opportunity of something unique in the marketplace. It's solving a need they have. The need is they need to reach these younger audiences. They need to reach diverse audiences. They need to have a company that understands insights and analytics in helping them reach it. You know, we're really checking all those boxes off. As it relates to contributions, this year is just about, it's primarily about scaling the business, scaling the Creator TV platform. We have distribution, obviously, as we've discussed with Sling. We secured distribution with Plex. There's additional announcements we're going to have. Really, you know, contributions, I wouldn't expect until next year in a decent way. I mean, this year is really just about scaling the reach of that platform.
The next step is going to be to double down and starting to really push viewership there. There is still a lot of work in progress, but our advertisers are, once again, excited about it. One of the things you should also remember, Nicholas, is that now we have first-party data going back into our household graph. Not only have we had rich data that has flowed through to us through other publishers and data, you know, alliances we have, but now for the first time in history, we have first-party data that we are now integrating into our household graph. It is just going to make our complete offering even more effective. Sajid, anything you want to add to that in terms of timelines for Creator TV?
No, I think that that's well said. I think that, you know, one thing that is also kind of an intangible is that having Creator TV and having our own owned and operated channel is also enticing to the brands that we work with on the DSP side. I think that, you know, having Creator TV has been a differentiator for us along with App Science and why we're able to secure more media upfront commitments in 2025 than we do in 2024.
Also, Nicholas, one other thing I'll add is if you're a politician and you're running for races, you're looking for that younger audience. As you know, as proven by the last election cycle, the old paradigms of media marketing are changing. The need to get to these influencers is critical. You know, we once again are providing a solution that not only our brand advertisers are eagerly interested in participating in, but political and advocacy advertisers as well.
Okay, makes sense. Those are all my questions. Thanks for the time, guys, and great presentation today.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
We have some questions here from Gabriel Leung of Beacon Securities. He was not able to make the call as he was traveling. I will read these questions out on his behalf. Have there been any notable changes to direct advertiser demand or ARPU over the past couple of weeks that could persist into coming months?
We've done some analysis on it. Let Sajid jump in here. We've done some initial analysis. Thus far, we have not seen any degradation of demand or anything that is now slowing down thus far. Sajid, you want to jump into that a little bit more?
That's correct. Yeah, we're not seeing any change in the velocity right now. Things are still moving ahead nicely. Obviously, there are some uncertainties in the broader economy, but as of now, we're not seeing those signs.
All right. What sort of contribution do you anticipate your newer offerings, like programmatic and Creator TV, to add to the top line?
We're taking more of a pragmatic approach to these new products in 2025. We're modeling in single-digit % contributions to our top line. There is high potential. We've been told by our brands that we're leaving dollars on the table by not having a programmatic offering. We've already seen how having our own owned and operated inventory in Creator TV is benefiting our upfront media commitments. Both mine do have big potential going into 2026. Most election spending tends to take place programmatically. For the first time, we'll have an offering to capitalize on that. Where we see more of a near-term win is international. Around 3% of our 2024 sales came from international. We could very well more than double that in 2025.
One of the things that I think, you know, I'd like to add too is if the economy starts slipping, you know, some of the consumer sentiment numbers are starting to look not as rosy as it was last year. Performance is going to be a bigger aspect of what brands are going to be looking for. We are uniquely positioned now, not only as it relates to our brand business, but now a performance business. Any, you know, downshift in brand will usually mean an upshift in performance. We also believe that, you know, to Sajid's point about international growth, the European economy seems to be really starting to recover quickly, which is a great diversification for us, along with Asia and the Middle East. You know, we have done our best and continue to diversify our business.
We see a lot of opportunity there. There is a lot of upside, huge upside in all of these vectors in a big way.
Okay. What sort of qualitative and quantitative feedback have you received from content creators and distributors from Creator TV?
It's still fairly early. You know, we are starting to see, you know, the numbers are fairly small in terms of viewership, but we are seeing growth in viewership overall. You know, this, you know, in all intents and purposes, we only launched probably a month ago, a month or two ago. Still fairly early. We expect to see some substantive information by year's end. We're super excited about the opportunity it presents. Thus far, once again, albeit small, viewership continues to grow.
Okay. How are you planning for the more difficult year-over-year comparables, notably for Q3 and to a lesser extent Q4? More directly, given your current pipeline, do you anticipate being able to report year-over-year revenue growth in the second half of 2025?
Yeah, it's a good question. I think that, as I mentioned before, our business in Q4, excluding election spending, grew by 25%. We're seeing similar trends in Q1. We're feeling quite optimistic about being able to show Q4 growth this year with that same kind of growth levels being maintained. Q3, a bit more challenging. We're entering into it, though, with a lot more tools in our belt than we did in 2023. We have a more predictable sales model, as I mentioned, a 90% recurring revenue rate. We can be more proactive than reactive. We have expanded geographical reach. International contributed very little to our Q3 revenues in 2024. We believe that we can at least double that this year. We have a more diversified product model. Programmatic will contribute as well as performance marketing.
We are already seeing growth in immediate upfront commitments through App Science and Creator TV being our differentiators. Our brands are excited to work with us for those reasons. That said, we are facing somewhat uncharted waters. Some of our lower dollar verticals, like government, are being impacted by the tariffs. It is not really noticeable right now, but to the extent to other verticals, it may present some near-term headwinds. That said, our sales model is more predictable, and we are more diversified than we have ever been. Automotive has historically been around 20-25% of our sales mix. Now it is around 15%. Again, as I mentioned before, big picture, we are outpacing the market. We are taking market share. If there is any sort of downturn, we feel that we are very well positioned to continue to be able to do so going forward.
I'll, you know, once again, to clarify, we had a total of $5 million in Q3 of political spend. It wasn't significant. It was decent enough, but it wasn't significant. You know, in preparation for this Q3 year-to-year comp, we did do some hiring at the end of last year. We added additional, not only did we add new products, we added new sellers. Our expectation is that we will be able to meet, you know, those Q3 challenges. Having said that, this is in a unique backdrop with, obviously, tariffs and a lot of uncertainty coming out of Washington, D.C. That's the only thing. As it relates to our strategy, we've been planning this for a while. You know, execution is going to be proven as it relates to Q1 and Q2.
As it relates to Q3, you know, that remains to be seen if the tariffs start having a really big effect on spending, advertised spending. That is the only thing that we are unsure about at this point. We are confident about our strategy to beat those numbers.
Thank you. That completes the questions from the analysts. I will now begin reading out questions that are typed in through the Q&A from the audience.
Great.
I believe this coming question was largely covered. You can add as needed to it. Can you provide some more color on how you will keep momentum and growth in a non-U.S. election year?
I think Sajid alluded to it. We're doing it. I think, you know, once we finalize our Q1 numbers, proof's in the pudding. What it is is we have a, you know, our objective was twofold, first of which is add new sellers, add more sellers, which we did in Q3, starting Q3 of last year. That allows us to get out to the marketplace. We don't have an issue with our product. We have an issue with getting out and evangelizing a product. As Sajid talked about, we have a 90% recurring revenue model. The minute we lock a deal in, we keep it and we grow it. The second aspect, the second strategy of our strategy here was product launches, providing our sellers and, you know, our brands with new opportunities to increase their share of voice wallet, sorry.
We did do that. As Sajid mentioned, we launched our performance product. We have launched a programmatic product. We also have the Creator TV opportunity. That is really it. Our objective was we have been planning on 2025 since early 2024. We knew 2024 was going to be a great year. We said that to the market at the end of 2023. We are going to execute in a big way in 2024. That gave us the opportunity and the means by which to start preparing for 2025. As we will demonstrate in Q1, and Sajid talked about double-digit growth at the minimum, you know, that is really, that is the double-digit growth we are already seeing. We are going to see that, we believe, in Q2. As it relates to Q3, Q4, that remains to be seen if the tariffs are going to have any type of corrosive effect.
We are feeling good about our strategy. Our strategy is exactly that: products, more products, more sellers, and retaining our key customers.
Thank you. The ad-supported streaming market is becoming increasingly competitive, with major players like Amazon and Google expanding their presence. How does Sabio plan to maintain and increase its market share and customer loyalty in the face of this competition? What are the key differentiators that will allow Sabio to compete effectively?
Great question. We're frenemies with them. In other words, they are not pure competitors. They're actually allies. They are going to be, you know, we're having conversations with all these platforms about Creator TV. We're having conversations about all these platforms about using our data and analytics capabilities. At the same time, we compete with them for some of those ad dollars. It is a pretty big, it's a $48 billion industry overall, projected to be $48 billion in a matter of two years. There's a lot of money going around. You know, we're fortunate. Going back to the differentiation, that App Science household graph, which I keep talking about, we've been building it since 2016. It is really a differentiated product enough so where a brand like Toyota, for example, uses us for analytics and insights, not just helping them reach audiences.
It tells you the effectiveness of that ad science graph. You know, we're super excited about, as I mentioned in my comments earlier, we've further solidified our graph. We went from 55 million homes to 80 million homes. The richness of that graph continues to grow. That's a key differentiator, especially when you have Nielsen that has a 30,000 survey panel. You know, brands and agencies are looking to us to be leaders in this space, not Amazon for insights and understanding, but to Sabio and ad science. That's really how we continue to be looking at our differentiation.
Thank you. How is Sabio planning to increase its EBITDA margin or percentage?
We at this point, and sorry, I'll let you get in here, Sajid. We're not looking to optimize our EBITDA margin this year. We have a lot of growth. As I mentioned, $48 billion-$49 billion of opportunity. Next year, we also have a huge political cycle. Our focus is not initially optimizing growth this year. Our EBITDA margins naturally move up in election years. As the revenue moves up, more falls to the bottom line. Sajid will get into the details of that. That is where the efficiencies in EBITDA margins will continue growing as we scale this company up. As we've said it since I started the company, when you start hitting that $50 million inflection point, more drops to the bottom line. That will continue being the process where our EBITDA margins continue increasing. Sajid, sorry.
No, I think that that was well said. I think that around that, you know, that $50 million mark, you're seeing economies of scale. That's why you're seeing that EBITDA margin double or more than double from our last profitable year in 2022 to 2024. You know, as far as, you know, the expansion of margins, I think it's easy to hit it right on. I think in 2025, we're investing in programmatic. We're investing in performance. We're investing in Creator TV. We're investing in international. We're balancing that while being profitable this year and maintaining our current levels of margin. In next year, it's a great opportunity for us to expand that margin with that added revenue coming in.
To give you some context, we're right in the middle of the stack of our U.S. and Canadian peers as it relates to EBITDA margins and overall margin. We do see an opportunity. I mean, you have The Trade Desk that is at a 24% margin profile. That's a, you know, $5 billion huge company, scaled up. We believe we will, as we continue scaling up, we can move to that, to that goal, you know, to that objective there of getting to the top line of that margin number. It's going to simply mean just increasing our overall revenue. That's it. As our increase in our overall revenue more falls in. We are, from where we are today, relative to even those scaled companies, ahead of where they were from a margin profile because we're a public company.
They weren't public at the stage where we're at. You know, we're excited. We see the opportunity ahead. We want to be profitable. We want to grow this company in a profitable, you know, profitable high-growth opportunity way. That's how we see it.
Thank you. For international markets, how is the market and the competition, and how are the margins in international markets?
Without, you know, giving too much detail, because, you know, we have competitors who also look at it, it's been very positive in general. You know, profiles, international markets, margin profiles are not as great as the U.S. margin profile. That is simply because we haven't built our household graph there yet. Our App Science household graph will probably start being worked on, is already being worked on for the international markets. As we, what we've seen is our efficiencies are not simply in serving out ads. Our efficiencies are when we can provide data and insights backing up how we're reaching those consumers and unique offering in those markets. You know, we do expect that margin profile to increase in the coming years as we put more resources into international markets. We're seeing, you know, tremendous opportunity.
It is still early. Streaming TV, while being used on a subscription basis in international markets, ad-supported streaming has not been used in a big way. We feel like we are getting ahead of the curve in a big, you know, in a huge opportunity.
Thank you. Can you speak about the benefits of being listed in Canada versus a U.S. listing? Are you considering any share structure options, such as a reverse split in order to raise your share price?
Sajid, you want to take that?
Yeah. I think that, you know, there are many, many benefits of being on a Canadian market as opposed to a U.S. market, especially at our size. Number one, the overhead for being on a Canadian exchange is a lot lower than it would be on a U.S. exchange. We'd rather use that money to funnel back into investing in our business, investing in our products rather than on some compliance costs. I think it's a lot better bang for the buck in that respect. Number two, you have a very knowledgeable investor base here in Canada. There's one as well in the United States. What you see in the U.S. is that we'll be overshadowed by a lot of the bigger players. Sometimes it's better to be a bit of a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
As far as, you know, going on a U.S. exchange, there may be a time for it in the future. As long as we're getting good traction in Canada, as long as we're, you know, seeing that our results are being recognized, we're happy, right? It's a strong market. We are now getting the recognition for our results. As far as doing a reverse split, you know, if we were to go on a U.S. exchange sometime in the future, maybe that might be a reason for doing so. As of now, that's not on the agenda.
Thank you. With such a strong balance sheet, what is the capital allocation strategy for both the short term and going out three to five years? For example, how will balance sheet reduction with acquisitions and growth prospects?
Our view on acquisitions are, you know, we haven't seen any of that out there that we're super excited about. You know, there certainly could be an opportunity out there. Where we really see the opportunity for our balance sheet improvement is to have more, to really focus on operating leverage. What I mean by that is when you have a stronger balance sheet, you can negotiate better upfront commitments for some of the supply costs we have. The expansion as it relates to, you know, expansion of Creator TV. As Creator TV expands, our efficiencies increase. You know, our real focus is, and then, of course, we have ever-increasing storage costs because all the data infrastructure, that's going to have to be looked at. How do we streamline that a little bit more?
With the balance sheet, we really look at it as an opportunity to really focus in on operating leverage. How do we get more efficiencies in our organization versus, you know, we really believe in looking internally before externally. We need to really optimize our company even more and get even more efficiencies before we think about acquisitions and bringing something in. Because we see a lot of opportunity. We've done this all organically. Our growth rates, our growth has all been organic. And we really enjoy the organic approach here. We think that with the additional investments, it's going to allow us to really accelerate our approach and our mission even more so. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
No, I think that that's well said. I think that, you know, we're seeing a lot of strength in our business through our balance sheet. We're already being able to negotiate better contracts than we have in the past. We're being able to open up our windows to more suppliers than we have in our past as well. I think that, you know, our debt load is also very manageable. We've been able to reduce our debt load by close to $2 million over the last year. You know, that alone is creating more than enough space for us to pay off that convertible debt later on this year and still have ample room left. I think that you are right that our balance sheet has never been in better shape.
Aziz is right that, you know, M&A, while it's enticing, it's not always a cure-all, especially when you have so many opportunities to invest in organic growth as we do.
Thank you. Since there is huge recurring revenue, can you shed some insight about customer concentration?
Yeah. I think that, you know, we never had, we haven't had this diversified of a sales mix in our history. If you look at the brands that spent with us in 2024, not one brand exceeded 15% of our sales mix. You know, it's very well diversified. I think that we're continuing to add new logos as well. 41% of the logos that spent with us in 2024 were new logos. That's our new opportunities for us to land and expand going forward.
As I mentioned earlier, we've diversified. We had, you know, at one point, our highest category was automotive, which is great. We have diversified outside of automotive. Not only are we diversified from an individual brand perspective, but from a category perspective. You add to it a geographic perspective. We are de-risking every aspect of our business we can with this idea of diversification. You add to it product mix. You know, while we are heavily still today focusing on brand business, we're now getting into performance. We have, you know, the Creator TV opportunity. We are really, and then, of course, there's App Science, which is also generating some opportunities in cash. We really are diversifying every aspect of our business overall as we continue to move upstream.
Increase, you know, operating leverage, increase margins, diversify is really our strategy as we continue getting bigger.
Thank you. For the final question here, if there are any other questions, audience, please input them into the Q&A. For the final question for now, are there any key hires you are looking to make in the next coming quarters?
We just disclosed we made a key hire in our EVP of Human Resources that just came on board. He was actually Chief of Staff at ABC News, someone who I've worked with in the past. Outside of that, we feel like we have a really strong team overall. We do not feel the need to make any major key hires. We believe that we have the right leadership in place. Now we just need to, you know, continue adding resources as it relates to sales apparatus and, you know, sales support. We do not see a lot of big hires that we need at this point to continue scaling this business up to a, you know, we think that, you know, we're already a CAD 70 million company. We think getting to CAD 100 million, we have the team it takes to do that, and beyond.
We don't feel like there's any areas we're deficient in at this point.
Thank you. Can you quantify in terms of absolute dollars as opposed to margins of the amount of additional SG&A investments you're planning to make in 2025?
Yeah. You know, part of those investments, you know, will be dictated by market developments as well and how this, you know, the economy reacts to these tariffs and how the business reacts to what our brands are facing. I think it would, to be, you know, pragmatic, I think it's, we're not going to be committing to a firm dollar at this point in time. A lot of it is dictated by the business and how well it performs. You know, if we're overshooting our projections in 2025, we may invest more in our sales apparatus. Likewise, if things contract, we may adjust that accordingly.
Sometimes investments do not necessarily, while there is an outlay of cash, there is a savings component that goes with it. For example, as we are implementing more AI capabilities within our organization, there are efficiencies that will take place, including as it relates to how we sort data and how much of that data we store. While, you know, it is hard to put a number in, sometimes that is offset by the actual savings that will take place at the same time. You know, it is hard to give a specific number or need. Like Sajid said, you know, we are addressing and looking in. We are always keeping an eye on this idea of the EBITDA. We want to continue being a profitable company. We have been profitable four out of the last five years.
We have no interest in changing that parameter. We enjoy being a profitable company. That is really our focus overall.
Yeah. Thank you very much. There are no further questions at this time. I turn the call back over to the presenters.
Thank you. Appreciate the time. And, you know, once again, as we talked about, our investment summary, unique value proposition in strong moat, our ad science capabilities, along with now our Creator TV and our overall tech stack is really the key differentiation in a highly competitive market. It's a high-growth and profitable business. As we've talked about, it's estimated, some estimates have it at $48 billion-$49 billion in the next two years for ad-supported streaming. Streaming will continue growing. Ad-supported streaming as linear TV and cable continue to collapse and, you know, lose viewership. Finally, landscape and opportunity is incredible. Our long-term trajectory is not only just based off of U.S. expansion, as you've heard, it's based off of global expansion.
You know, we have no limits in the future of where this company can go and really are enjoying being part of the Canadian marketplace. As Sajid talked about, and continue growing within that ecosystem. On that note, thank you all for joining us. Thank you, Martin, for hosting this call.