Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Sabio Holdings Q1 2025 Earnings Call. The financial statements and MD&A, have been filed and can be accessed through the CDR, website. Today is Wednesday, May the 28th, 2025, and joining us are Aziz Rahimtoola, Founder and CEO, and Sajid Premji, CFO, of Sabio Holdings. They will be presenting the company's Q1 2025 results and developments, followed by a Q&A, session. Analysts, can ask their questions live by pressing the raise hand button to unmute. Investors are encouraged to submit their questions via the Q&A box, and we will address them at the end of the session, along with any questions that have been emailed or submitted in advance. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made today may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors.
For a complete description of the risks and uncertainties facing the company, please refer to the MD&A, and other continuous disclosure filings, which are also available on the CDR, website. Also note that all figures discussed today are in U.S. dollars unless stated otherwise. With that, I will turn it over to Aziz.
Thank you, Martin. Good morning, everyone. Q1's, success was a validation of investment strategies that were initiated in Q3, of last year. Our approach of investing in our high-growth business investments in our high-growth needs versus optimizing adjusted EBITDA, is paying off. The investments included increasing our domestic and international sales teams, product development and implementation, along with adding key roles in strengthening sales, HR, and IT, infrastructure. The results, as Sajid, will share, are one of the best Q1, quarters in Sabio, history from both a new product and top-line revenue perspective. It also should demonstrate to the marketplace Sabio, can have strong growth in non-political years. I'm now going to hand it over to Sajid, our CFO, to talk about the numbers.
Thanks, Aziz. We are pleased to report record first-quarter revenues in our fourth consecutive quarter of double-digit revenue, growth. Our shift to a streaming TV sales model, from a mobile display-dependent model has delivered a robust 40%, compound annual growth rate since 2020, increased customer retention, and has captured substantial cost efficiencies. For the three months, ended March 31, 2025, Sabio, generated $9.1 million, in sales, up 43%, from the prior year. The increase in sales was fully organic and driven by strong advertising demand, broader client adoption in key verticals, and expansion into new geographies, in combination with new product offerings and previous investments made. Double-digit growth rates, were realized across several geographies within Sabio's, footprint, including from the company's New York, Chicago, Washington, D.C., and Detroit offices.
Meanwhile, the company has begun applying its sales model, to geographies outside the U.S., including the United Kingdom, which continues to compound at triple-digit growth rates. By segment, Aziz, reported streaming TV sales, grew 40%, to $6.8 million, U.S. compared to $4.9 million, U.S. in the same period last year. This compares to the 29%, year-over-year growth rate we achieved in Aziz, reported streaming in Q1, of 2024. This year's increase in revenues was spread across several verticals, including telecom, quick-service restaurants, travel and tourism, automotive, technology, finance, and legal and professional services. For the fifth, straight quarter, Aziz, ,reported streaming sales once again outpaced the estimated 13%, growth rate for the U.S. Aziz, reported streaming industry at large as we continue to take market share.
For context, this means that Sabio, was growing three times as fast as its peers, with brands that are among the biggest and most sophisticated marketers in the world. As Sabio's, dominant sales category, accounting for 75%, of our overall sales mix, our Aziz, ported streaming sales feature lower OPEX, and predictable and sustained growth through very high customer retention rates. 91%, of our first-quarter sales, excluding those from our new international business, came from repeat customers compared to 85%, in the prior year's period. Meanwhile, 25%, of the brands we spent with Sabio, during the period were new logos presenting new opportunities to expand our revenue base in the quarters to come. Additionally, first-quarter, mobile display sales increased 58%, to $2 million from $1.3 million, in the first quarter of 2024, as Sabio, was able to effectively cross-sell its product offerings to capitalize on high advertiser demand.
On a trailing 12-month basis, our Aziz-ported, streaming TV business now represents 77%, of our sales mix as we continue to capitalize on one of the fastest-growing categories in advertising. Within the span of four years, we have completely transformed ourselves from a company that generated just 13%, of trailing 12-month, sales from Aziz-ported, streaming TV at the end of the first quarter of 2021. Sabio's, end-to-end technology stack, powered by our proprietary AppScience, cross-screen graph and featuring several direct supply integrations, continues to yield strong gross margins, with first-quarter, gross margins improving to 61%, from 59%, in the prior year's comparable period. With 60%-70%, of our sales taking place in the second half, of the year, the company has historically incurred first-half, losses followed by second-half, profitability. Our first-quarter, adjusted EBITDA, loss was relatively consistent with the prior year, increasing to $1.6 million, U.S.
for $1.3 million, in the prior year's period. Contributing to the increase, there was an $800,000, increase in cloud computing costs, over the prior year's first quarter, which included one-time investments, that will enhance the company's data security, capture AI-driven, efficiencies, and facilitate a robust data platform for continued growth. Going forward, management expects its cloud costs to normalize. First-quarter OPEX, also included investments made in the company's Salesforce, and new product offerings since the first quarter, of 2024. Sabio's, Salesforce grew nearly 50%, in the 12 months ending March 31, 2025, with most hires being made in the fourth quarter, of 2024, and first quarter, of 2025. The substantial benefits of these investments are expected to be realized in the second half, of 2025 and into 2026.
Meanwhile, the company continued to use its cash flows from operations to strengthen its balance sheet and ended the quarter with cash increasing to $3.8 million, from $3.3 million, in the fourth quarter, of 2024, while Sabio's, debt load balance also trended lower. Also to note, the $583,000, employee retention credit that we received following the end of the quarter is not included in this cash balance. Sabio's, debt load consists of $1.6 million, in short and long-term, debt instruments, and $5.1 million, outstanding under a three-year, revolving credit facility backed by Sabio, sales. This facility is used to borrow against eligible accounts receivable of the company before they are collected on, which have historically experienced nominal loss rates because Sabio's, customer base is largely composed of the most significant U.S. brands and advertising agencies.
When accounts receivables are collected on, the amounts received are first directly paid towards the outstanding loan balance, which the company can then use for working capital purposes through subsequent withdrawals, subject to availability under the facility. As a result, the facility is continuously being repaid as AR, on sales is collected on. At quarter end, we had 50.6 million, U.S. shares outstanding, 3.6 million, options and RSUs, outstanding, and convertible debt, convertible into 1.74 million, shares at an exercise price of CAD 1. Insiders continue to own 55%, of the company, with high alignment between our management team and the interests of shareholders. Management continues to believe the current market valuation of our stock does not reflect the fundamental strength and growth potential of our business. Subsequent to quarter end, Sabio, renewed its normal course issuer bid program.
While reinvesting within the business remains our bias for capital deployment, we believe such opportunistic repurchases will provide an attractive yield to our shareholders. Looking ahead, Sabio, is currently on track to surpass its record-setting 2024, performance. While management continues to assess the ongoing developments in the broader economic trade policy, and potential impacts on our business, with an expanded Salesforce, and an improved IT infrastructure, in place, Sabio expects its streak of double-digit consolidated revenue, gains to continue on to the second quarter, of 2025. I will now turn it over to Aziz, who will provide a quick recap. Thank you, may I be on mute, Aziz?
Thank you, Sajid. To wrap up, we're very encouraged by the strong start of the year. Our new product releases like Creator TV, are already gaining traction, and our continued global expansion is opening up exciting new opportunities, particularly in high-growth international markets. We're on track to deliver record first-half revenue, which speaks to the momentum we built across the business. With a larger, more capable team and strong platform, to scale from, we believe Sabio, is well positioned to sustain the growth through the year, back half of the year, and into 2026, especially as we enter the high-activity election cycle that historically brings increased spend. We're excited about what's ahead and look forward to delivering continued value to customers, partners, and shareholders. On that note, I will hand it back to Martin.
We will now open the call up for some questions. All analysts, have been given speaker permission, so please raise your virtual hand if the analysts can do that. Investors, are encouraged to submit their questions via the Q&A box, and we will address those after the analyst portion is complete. Our first question comes from Gabriel Long.
Good morning and thanks for taking my questions and congrats on all the progress. Aziz, just wondering if you can give us maybe some talking points or perhaps some milestones you might be expecting from some of the newer offerings, namely around programmatic performance and Creator TV. What are some things we should be watching out for, and what are sort of your expectations in terms of revenue contributions, for the next 12 to 18 months, from these products?
Good morning, Gabe. Thank you for your question. You know, some key milestones. First, let's talk about Creator TV. You know, as we continue to expand distribution there, you're going to hear more announcements of some key platforms that we're going to be running Creator TV, on. As that happens, that obviously increases our scale and the opportunity to reach consumers. This is unique for us, right? This is the first time we are going to go directly to consumers versus being behind the ad tech, wall. It is an exciting opportunity and an opportunity not only to connect direct consumers, but the benefits of that include increased revenue, from opportunities to sell, increased margins, data component that comes with it. You know, it's really exciting.
As it relates to programmatic, what you will likely, in terms of benchmarks, start seeing is, as we started seeing in our international markets, international has now started playing a bigger role in every quarter. We expect programmatic to start kicking in in Q2, start showing some decent traction moving up. I think, you know, within the year, I do believe that programmatic could have a substantial portion of the total revenue. Now, do I think it's a majority? No, not yet. We're fortunate to have great brands that want to continue working with us on managed service. What we have been told on a repeated basis is the fact that when we do programmatic, this is newfound money that we were not claiming for our managed service business.
We're excited about that opportunity, and we're going to continue seeing those two key areas along with international. As I mentioned, international will continue to show gains, and it will show up in our quarterly revenue, numbers. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
I think that was well said, Aziz. I think the only thing I would add to that is that performance marketing is also a new product that we launched in Q4, of 2024, and we expect that to contribute several million, dollars this year and really ramp up next year and the year after.
Gotcha. Thanks for that feedback. There has been, you know, recently anyways, quite a bit of volatility around ad tech spend, particularly with publishers who rely really on Google Search, especially what's going on on the generative AI, side of things. I know it probably doesn't have a direct impact on you guys, but I'm curious if you've seen any, as a result of that, seen any changes in terms of buying behaviors from advertisers or just maybe behaviors on the publisher side with your SSP, business?
We haven't seen anything because we don't play in, you know, the open internet space. We play in, obviously, in the CTV, OTT, space. We haven't seen any impacts with that yet. You know, we do think that at some point those impacts will benefit us just simply because as there tends to be, you know, a lot of noise and commotion and instability in that open internet space, you know, brands want consistency and they want reliability. We think that that is going to help us, but money moving into CTV, OTT, more. I think search is under a lot of pressure right now, right? It's like a lot of big brand marketers are asking themselves in the world of AI, and, you know, the way things are going with ChatGPT, and being able to, and consumers are changing their behavior.
Why do I even need search? That is going to open up some new budgets. We have not seen anything directly yet, but we do think it is an opportunity for us as things progress.
Gotcha. I just had a couple of questions on the financial front. First, Sajid, do you have a number for what the one-time expenses might have been related to moving the dealing into AWS?
Yeah, no, it's a good question, Gabe. I think that we're still kind of honing in on that. We just want to see a few quarters of traction, I mean, a few months of traction before we have a number out there just to make sure that these items are indeed non-recurring in nature. You know, that said, we are seeing, you know, a sequential decrease in the cost going from the end of Q1 to Q2. That cost is coming down, and it's coming down while revenues are going up, right? Usually when your revenues go up, your cloud computing costs go up as well. We are seeing efficiencies taking hold.
Gotcha. And that'd be specifically on the R&D, line, I guess, right?
Yes, the R&T, line, correct. Yeah.
Okay, perfect. And then just in terms of sales and marketing then, I mean, you've spent the last two quarters, bulking up the sales team domestically and internationally. Are you pretty much done in terms of the hello? Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Yeah, sorry. I was just asking on the sales and marketing front, you spent the last couple of quarters just bulking up the team there. Just curious if you're pretty much done in terms of the new hirings and the investments on that front for the remainder of the year.
I'm not sure. You know, we, as you know, I kind of mentioned my intro, we continue seeing a lot of growth opportunity. And because we see a lot of growth opportunity, Gabe, we want to continue adding resources as needed. You know, we see, once again, I mean, to deliver the type of Q1, we did, took investments in Q3, Q4, and we think that it's going to be an ongoing thing. We do not expect our investments to slow down anytime soon. We are not really interested in optimizing EBITDA. What we are interested in is optimizing the opportunity. We see that as a huge growth potential. We will have, you know, we are not going to have at the pace of hiring that we did in Q3, Q4, but we are going to continue adding resources for the rest of this year.
Gotcha. I appreciate that. Thanks for the feedback and congrats again on the progress.
Thank you.
All right, we'll now take our next question from Daniel Rosenberg .
Hey, good morning, Aziz and Sajid. Thanks for taking my questions. My first one comes around just the strength of the CTV, in the quarter. Even when we look to some of the peer group, the CTV, growth just was not as robust. I was wondering if you could just speak to the differentiation that you think you are bringing to the table that is leading to the strong top line.
Yeah, so I think that, you know, I'll take a stab at answering that.
All right, Daniel, my apologies, everyone. I'm seeming to have some technical problems, so I didn't hear half the question. My apologies. Can you repeat that again?
Sure. I was just asking about the strength in the top line, especially around the CTV. Basically, when I benchmark against the other big peers, just have not seen that type of growth. Just wondering if you could speak to it in more detail, what the differentiators are that you are seeing when you speak to clients.
Sure. Thank you for your question, Daniel. Good morning. What we see is AppScience, is working. And what clients are telling us on a repeated basis is the fact that our ability to reach their audiences more effectively than competitors is real. They have done reach and frequency analysis on their end of the business on top of the third-party, you know, third-party tags that they use on us. And it's effective. And really, that's what the key is, is there's a lot of people in CTV, OTT, that are just using contextual targeting. They're basically contextually reaching audiences because the quality, the lack of quality of data in the CTV, OTT, space is a big problem. Reach is a big problem. Scalability, of data targeting is a problem. And in Sajid's, case, we're providing a solution for those.
That is why our clients, you know, as we pointed out.
We seem to be having some technical issues here. Are you able to hear this, Sajid?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Sajid.
Yeah, I think that, you know, what Aziz, was saying is spot on. I think that a big differentiator in my view is our AppScience, household graph and our ability to do advanced targeting that some of our peers are not able to do, right? I mean, we have it from a different perspective, a mobile-first perspective. A lot of our peers are coming at it from a linear TV, going to streaming TV, perspective. I think that in the end of the day, what we say is you are what you app. We believe that our way of going about it and targeting the consumer is a lot more accurate and a lot more nuanced.
I think that's really taking hold in that streaming TV, number increasing quite a bit each quarter, and increasing over the industry benchmarks as well.
Thanks. Appreciate that. Maybe just to get a little more specific, I mean, I understand that differentiator in North America, but when I think about the U.K., you know, what are the drivers there? Or is it that U.K. business is advertising into North America? How should we understand just the triple-digit growth you're seeing in that market?
In that market, what we're doing is we're doing an AppScience-like, product in that market. We have the know-how of AppScience, and what we're doing is we're using, we're partnering with other data companies that are already operating in that space that allows us to formulate and create data segments, in that market. For the European, market and eventually the Asian market, we're using an AppScience-like, kind of strategy there as well. Some of it, quite honestly, is also contextual. Like, it's a combination. It's AppScience-like, segments and it's contextual targeting. We just, you know, we have an incredible leader there that is able to connect the dots between what the market needs and what our offering is, including on creative. Creative has been a big differentiator for us there. There's a three-pronged attack we're taking.
It's AppScience-like, segments we've created, partnering up with other companies. It's creative. And then understanding, you know, the power that we have from a contextual basis to connect the dots. So those three, is really, but to your point, Daniel, we don't have AppScience, officially in Europe yet, but we do believe that as we're working on that, we're doing some investments in that area. Part of that infrastructure spend on AWS, in Q1, is connected to that. We're going to continue putting some infrastructure spend to roll out AppScience, in Europe, fairly soon. Hopefully by the end of this year, fairly soon.
Great. And then just turning to the sales and headcount question and also just your general expansion. I mean, you just mentioned Asia market, and just Europe, generally. Just what are the plans on hiring or the seats that you already put in place? Is there a focus on Europe? The U.K. is obviously going quite well. How are you thinking about, you know, targeting your human capital?
Our human capital, Sajid, getting here as well. The way our initial thought is, is Europe, is definitely, we're seeing a lot of great momentum there. We're seeing momentum in Asia. As you know, we have a fully owned subsidiary in India, and we've had that since 2016. Our view is that Europe, is a great opportunity. Asia, is a huge opportunity. There is also Latin America. We are Sabio, after all. The name is in Spanish. It really lends itself to going to Latin America, as well. We really, you know, our immediate priority is U.K., Europe, Asia, simultaneously, and then Latin America. We're delving into Mexico already. We're doing some, you know, we're starting to have conversations out there.
We'll start, you know, part of our hiring over the last year is a person by the name of Liz Blacker, who came on board and had worked extensively in Latin America. We are excited about her ability to help us really kind of understand that market, expand there, while DJ Agahi, who is running our Europe, and Asia, is helping us expand that way. We have a multi-pronged kind of effect and, sorry, strategy here that we believe we are going to scale up. Did that answer your question? Were you looking for some specifics, Daniel? Overall, a hundred or a Sajid, for that.
Yeah, if there's any, I mean, you did mention, you know, sales opportunity. I'm just wondering if there's a geographic split, or if there needs to be, just where you're putting those thought.
I think it's worth, you know, and I think that, you know, as Aziz, mentioned, we are going to continue to add some resources there. But it's also helpful to have some context that the European, market is a bit different than the U.S. setup. So unlike the U.S., where sales out of the U.S. serves a U.S. audience, international has more of a land and expand model. Where out of the U.K., you know, brands can run campaigns across several geographies across Europe, but even into the Middle East. And so that can lend itself to some sales efficiencies where you don't necessarily need to set up an office in each jurisdiction that you're running a campaign.
While we are going to be able to, or we are intending to add some resources for sure in Europe, and internationally, you do not need to have a salesperson for each jurisdiction that you have a campaign in. There are efficiencies from that perspective.
It goes back to that expenditure on the AWS. Like, you know, we are going to be adding some different components that this is all part of our core system. As we expand it and strengthen it, also defend it, you know, do some things that are allowing us to, like, make it more secure. Because as we go further out from home base, as Sajid, mentioned, we do not have to have all the pieces in that market. We are doing this by connecting into different, you know, data centers across the world that allow us to be very close to where our clients are. That is the primary cost. You know, you will see this component being a big part of our cost structure is how do we manage those as we start expanding out further.
Thanks for that. I guess turning just to a financial question, the working capital had a nice benefit. Nice to see the balance sheet strengthening. I'm just wondering if you could help us with thinking about, you know, how those working capital flows move throughout the year.
Yeah, no, it's a good question, Daniel. I think that we've never been in a better position as far as our balance sheet goes. You know, again, ending the quarter, with $3.8 million, of cash, up from $3.3 million, year-end. If you can kind of compare it to March, of last year, we were around $2.5 million, or so. It's definitely in a much better position. Also with a much lower balance on our credit facility, as you pointed out. I think that what tends to happen is that in the middle of the year, that's the portion of the year where you're collecting on your Q1, sales, you're paying out your vendors. Usually, because we do tend to run first half losses, we see more use of our line around the middle part of the year.
That line tends to go down towards the end of the year as we are cash flow positive again. I would expect a similar ebb and flow. Think of it as like a bit of a hill. You start off kind of low, you go a bit higher, and then you go down further towards year-end. I think what's different this year is that the base is a lot lower than it was in previous years. We are very well set up for the rest of the year.
That does not include that additional rebate money, we did receive. Sajid, you want to clarify that, what that is?
Yeah, correct. Yeah, we applied a couple of years ago for an employee retention credit through the IRS, as a COVID, pandemic program. There was a big backflow of claims. We finally got ours tended to, and we got a refund of $583,000, received subsequent to quarter end. That obviously provides a much, you know, helpful working capital for the rest of the year and to execute our business initiatives.
Okay, great. Yes, I saw that in your filings. Lastly, just around the outlook, I know, you know, you pointed to double-digit growth, but here you are putting up double-digit ,can mean a lot of things for you guys. Just trying to, could you help us narrow it down a little bit on how you're thinking about, you know, the growth opportunity and then just like the operating leverage in the business? You mentioned costs were coming down.
Yeah, I think that, you know, the way that the wording of that was to be a bit prudent and a bit cautious. Now, I will say that, you know, Q2, started out with a similar exit rate as Q1, a very robust. Now, we did see a bit of a slowdown around the Liberation Day, announcements on tariffs. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty out there. Since those cobwebs have been cleared, tariffs have been brought down, we are seeing a return to growth. You know, that's kind of why we put up the language that we have. Obviously, things are very fluid from a day-to-day situation. I think it might be a bit irresponsible for us to put our line in the sand and say this is going to be the number.
If things, you know, kind of proceed the way they are right now, we're going to be in a very good position by the end of Q2.
Look, you know, to be cautious here, every day advertisers, are changing posture. The reason, unfortunately, is because Washington, is changing posture. That is creating some uncertainty. I mean, we do believe, Daniel, that, you know, because what we're seeing as clients or first when liberation day, happened, we saw an immediate impact in terms of our momentum. The momentum slowed down considerably. As liberation day, you know, some of these tariffs have been postponed, delayed, that slowed some, you know, that opened up a little bit more money flowing through. There is still a lot of uncertainty. I think the problem is until there is some consistent messaging from the White House, our, you know, our clients do not know what to do. I mean, are they going to pay extra on steel, that is coming in to make the automotives?
Are they paying more for goods on, you know, the products that the supplies that go into the product? That is creating havoc within the economy. Until this administration figures out what the heck they're doing, we're going to see a lot of uncertainty. I think we don't know, you know, our clients are doing their best. What we're hearing from them is they're very much delaying until the last minute in a lot of their spend. We're seeing a lot of just-in-time spending, less planning, and, you know, deals coming in in a shorter span than we've ever seen before. Just simply because they don't want to have, you know, a lot of commitments out there that can, you know, that they need to cut. That is having some effect.
We're cautiously optimistic that that will work out to, you know, for Q3, Q4. We do see some risks. I mean, if we didn't say that, we wouldn't be honest. We're seeing risks in Q3. We're seeing some risks in Q4. We feel pretty good right now that, you know, the short-term momentum. You know, if tomorrow, you know, the President, of the United States, does another tweet or whatever he does, that could impact our advertising spend. We're very dependent, as is everyone else, on, you know, this volatility that's coming out of the White House.
Thanks, Farron. Appreciate that context. Congrats on a good quarter. I'll pass the line.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thank you very much. Now we are passing it off to Nicholas Cordalucci.
Aziz, hey, Sajid. Thanks for the time here. A couple of questions. Just the first one, you guys had some pretty good industry diversification in the quarter. Just wanted to see if we could get some more color on what drove that and how you guys achieved that.
You know, as Sajid, kind of, thank you. Thank you for the question, Nicholas. Good morning. As Sajid, kind of alluded to, we had growth across the geographic in terms of geographies as well as categories. The categories were driven primarily, we're seeing a lot of robust growth in categories outside of automotive. Automotive, has been, you know, a good category for us. It has been a number one category in the past, continues to be. We are seeing categories like telco, and quick service restaurant. Also the advocacy area, which we've invested in D.C., continues to be a great area for us. Quite honestly, automotive has been going through some challenging times. Especially with all the things that are going on with the tariffs since Liberation Day, it is holding them back a little bit.
Having said that, other categories are picking up the slack. You know, once again, telcos do not have to worry about tariffs. Advocacy, does not have to worry about tariffs. We are seeing quick service restaurants that are a little bit more immune to tariffs just simply because, you know, a lot of, especially in the U.S., a lot of ingredients do come from Mexico. Thus far, there are no additional punitive tariffs coming out of that. Overall, we are seeing, you know, automotive helping us, other categories helping us diversify just simply because automotive is a little bit restrained from our perspective. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
No, I think that that was well said. I think that, you know, we're seeing a lot of strength across the board. There are certain sectors that, you know, are a bit more that could be impacted more from a tariff situation like automotive. The fact that we are more diversified than we were in years past, you know, leads well to that. We're not only diversified from a vertical perspective, from a geography perspective, but also now from a product perspective, as well. I think that if we do go into an uncertain economic backdrop, in the second half, of the year, advertisers are going to want more flexibility under macro uncertainty. I think that should that happen, there'll be more of a shift to programmatic, for managed services.
For the first time now, we have an ad-supported streaming programmatic, product that we can offer to meet that demand. We are, you know, heading into these headwinds in a much better position than we have been in years past.
In addition, our performance product, which is already showing some great gains for some of our advertisers. You know, we once again, we continue investing in different diversity to Sajid's, point. We're diversifying this company, you know, to a better extent than we have ever had, whether it is various products, including Creator TV, which opens up another avenue of revenue stream that's not dependent solely on ad revenue from some top brands. We are definitely diversifying as fast as we can.
All right. Okay. That's perfect. I just wanted to ask about the mobile segment, because this is the third, consecutive quarter, of positive growth now. What should we expect from that segment going forward? Can you guys continue to grow it?
You know, it is actually quite surprising to us too. We did say last year that when our performance product kicks in, you're going to see this growth in performance in mobile, because performance relies a lot more on mobile, than you do CTV, OTT. You know, we do believe that that will continue seeing some growth as our performance product grows. Also, part of where programmatic is kind of unique in the sense that years ago, we were doing a lot of programmatic. In 2016, 2017, we were doing programmatic mobile programmatic. As we started pivoting into CTV, OTT, we did not do as much. Our focus was not mobile. Our focus was CTV, OTT, going into this area. You know, at the end of the day, the CTV, OTT, powers our mobile, and we know mobile. Our clients know that.
What's happening is now there's this resurgence of, you know, you obviously have all this great mobile data. You're showing great, you know, positive impact using CTV, OTT. We want to also use you for mobile. We do expect that to grow. It has not been our focus, but mobile is still at the core of our business. You know, and because we now have, as I mentioned in the intro, we've added some additional folks and resources, and we have someone who's dedicated to supply, who is now allowing us, helping us, you know, really kind of tap into better quality mobile. Our issue with mobile was the fact that we felt like there was a real question of quality in this space.
Now we have a great leader in Sajid Hegbal, who is managing our supply relationships and helping us really fine-tune that supply relationship. You know, advertisers are seeing the benefits of that. They're seeing the return on that. We do expect mobile to continue growing. Really, you know, our objective continues to be and will be continue growing the CTV, OTT, space, especially now with the launch of Creator TV, channel. We really think that mobile will continue growing. It's just a byproduct of, you know, who we are at the core of a company. We're a company that's driven by mobile data. Sajid, anything?
Yeah, I think that was well said.
Amazing. All right. Those are the only questions I had. A lot of the other ones were answered previously. I'll let some other people ask them. Thanks for the time, guys.
Thank you, Nicholas.
Thank you very much from the analysts. The analyst questions have now been addressed, and we will take questions from the Q&A box. Please quantify the one-time expenses, in the quarter, that will not continue next year and the rest of the year.
Yes. I think that, you know, the biggest piece would be those AWS, costs. I think that we can, you know, happy to provide some more color, on the non-recurring expense, at the end of Q2, once we get a, you know, we want to see a few months, under our wing in Q2, just to make sure that what we expect to be non-recurring is, in fact, non-recurring. We are seeing those trends so far. We are, again, to reiterate, we are seeing our costs come down between Q1 and Q2, despite the fact that we're seeing higher sales in Q2. Usually that's universal. Usually when your sales go up, your cloud costs go up. That's definitely a good sign. We'll be happy to provide some more color when we get to that point.
CTV and OTT, revenue growth, was 40%, year over year versus Q1, 2024, and 30%, two-year, CAGR, since Q1, 2023. Why the last non-political year? Why the need to spend more on Salesforce?
Simply because the way our business works is we have to work with the brands and agencies. We are still a small, very small company in a very big space. We are taking market share at a faster rate than our competitors. The argument is, do we just sit there and wait for our competitors to then outmatch us and continue to grow? No, the opportunity is great. What is going to happen is we are getting a lot of repeat business, as you see, but our geographic expansion, is working. Our addition of sellers across the regions is working. We have proven once we get deals, we can hold those deals and grow them. In some cases, we still have to get new deals and grow some of that business.
We do believe that the geographic expansion, and now programmatic, by the way, is a new category of business. All of our, the way to think about our business is, it has been campaigns that have run through our platform, alone and solely through our platform. Now with programmatic, our platform, it is using our platform, running through someone else's platform. That requires a different skill set of going out and selling those deals. Once we sell those deals, we are already seeing some very positive results there and returns there. You know, our competitors have very large sales teams. I think the way to look at where we compare, look at where Magnite, is the number of sales and apparatus they have. We are in ad tech. Unfortunately, ad tech takes investment.
It is not a gold mine, that you, you know, you spend a few years digging up and then all of a sudden it's a gold rush. Fortunately, that's not ad tech. It is always evolving. It's growing. And it's going to take investment. We're committed to that investment. You know what? That might come at the cost of EBITDA. We get that. We're fine with that. Because at the end of the day, we see the opportunity for growth. That really is what we're focusing on. We are a growth company. We are not a, you know, we're one of the fastest growing tech companies in the Canadian, space and the first one that's probably going to reach $100 million, in a very long time. We're super excited about that. We see a big opportunity to continue growing.
We are going to continue investing. This is not the time for us to optimize EBITDA. Absolutely not. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
Yeah, I think that that was well said, Aziz. I think it's just worth to emphasize that these are calculated investments, right? These are investments in areas that we see huge opportunities of growth. International, is an area that we're seeing huge growth in. We are investing in it. Performance marketing, you know, can add several million, dollars to our top line. We are investing in it. Creator TV, has huge potential as well. Not only to, you know, to our brands and advertisers, but to creating a holistic tech stack. We are investing in that as well. You know, these are very calculated, measured investments. The proof's in the pudding, right? We are growing at 40%, growth rates right now in CTV.
We expect those, you know, we expect even in a downturn in the economy that we're still going to outpace our peers and grab market share.
Do you expect the growth to accelerate with these new investments?
Yeah, I mean, we're, you know, we're already hot to begin with. We do believe so. These investments are, you know, as I mentioned earlier, we started investing in this third quarter. Our objective was we have a Q3, that has year-to-year comps that has political revenue in it. As you can see in Q1, last Q1, we did not have any real political revenue, but we were able to really deliver 43%, growth this Q1. Q2, we did see a little political revenue, but a lot of the political revenue, sits in Q3, on a historical basis, year-to-year comps. Our objective was to put investments in so this way we can be in a position to beat those Q3, year-to-year comps. That was before the tariffs and everything came in. We are very, you know, cautiously optimistic afbout our Q3, comps.
We're feeling good about our Q2, comps. Q3, is really where the big portion of roughly $5 million, in political sits in Q3, year-to-year comparison. Our objective was to get past that Q3, ,hump. You know, this was before the tariffs started showing up. We do believe that to answer the question, these new products are what we need. We're showing the growth in them in Q1. We will show growth in them in Q2. If the tariffs do not have too big of a corrosive effect on the overall broader economy in Q3, Q4, you will see the growth of that. That is not connected to political. We go back into the political year, you know, in 2026. You know, we're in a position where we are proving to the marketplace we can grow outside of political.
These products are going to help us do it.
When will you be able to grow your SG&A, at a slower rate than gross profit?
When we get closer to probably $100 million, of revenue. That's probably the inflection point. You know, that, and Sajid, anything you want to, but, you know, in my mind, that's really where we're really kind of starting to really get some economies of scale at a bigger level.
Yeah. I think it's worth just this, you know, to emphasize that we always, you know, tailor our cost to the tailwinds and headwinds that we're seeing in our business. For example, in 2020, you know, at the end of 2023, and in 2024, we dialed back the SG&A, costs. You know, we were able to expand EBITDA, to get through a rough patch. We had, you know, the levers that we had back then, we still have today. Right now, we're not seeing the same kind of headwinds. We are going to invest. We are going to invest in our businesses and grow. If we need to dial things back, we will. We'll always respond to the broader economy, to the industry, and to our business.
I think to Sajid's, earlier point, we've never been in a better cash position. That cash position continues to grow. We're going to be very mindful of how we approach our business needs. You know, growth is really the mindset we have right now. I know, unfortunately, that's not what a lot of investors may want to hear, but that is our growth mindset at this point: growth. We are very focused on that because this too will change. We're Sabio. We don't worry about fads. We worry about the long-term aspect of our business. We're going to continue growing it. We have proven now in terms of our CAGR, that we know how to grow it and grow it profitably across multiple quarters and years.
Yeah. I think it's worth just pointing out that, you know, looking at the overall big picture, you know, we're on a very good pace right now, right? I mean, our EBITDA, loss in Q1, was very close to what it was last year when we had record profits. You know, we're still on a very good path right now.
Has there been a shift in philosophy, to maximizing revenue growth at the expense, of EBITDA?
There hasn't. I mean, at the end of last year, and, you know, when we were coming out of 2023, it was, as we all know, it was a challenging year. And so we had to be mindful of our cost structure. We wanted to optimize EBITDA. And naturally, what was our cash positions were not great. You know, they were actually going the wrong direction. And so we had to kind of, you know, refocus on some key things. And getting to the EBITDA, optimization was important. What we've realized is we have a better understanding of our business going through that than we ever have. And so now we see the opportunity of growth. And so our focus is growth. And so it really hasn't changed other than the tools that we have at our disposal dictate what we can do.
Today, we have better tools than we did in 2023, going to 2024. We demonstrated in 2024, we could deliver both EBITDA, and top-line growth. We believe we can do the same again in 2025, going into 2026, and in 2026. What we are essentially telling to the marketplace is, look, there are going to be times when we need to make the investments. What we do not want to do is underestimate the need for infrastructure security, to underestimate the need to have expandable business instead of, you know, all of a sudden needing to do some one-time big costs.
Yes, we have some one-time costs in Q1, but that's nothing compared to if, you know, you get to a point where something breaks down and now you are limited in the ability to expand and unless you spend a few million dollars. We're spending costs as we go to expand and make sure we are ready for the growth we're seeing. That's what we're doing. We're being good stewards of our business. No, the thinking has not changed. Although I will tell you, the level of growth that we're seeing, our peers are not seeing. Compare them. Compare us to everyone else in the marketplace that I think Daniel Rosenberg, did. We are outpacing the market in a big way. We see that momentum. The wind is in our backs. We are going to play that as far as we can.
We're not going to let investment slow us down on that respect. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
Yeah. I think that that was well said.
What opportunity do you see in political and advocacy ads in the international markets?
That could be a big opportunity. The biggest export from the U.S. is not only guns and weapons, but it's going to eventually be political. And so, you know, the reality is we do see that as a big opportunity. Right now, though, the opportunity in the U.S. is big. That really is our focus is, you know, really kind of fine-tuning, that business. International, could be a growth opportunity. You know, just in general, international is growth in general. It's big in general. Our Creator TV, channel is now distributed globally. We have spots that are actually running in our channel in Europe, which is, you know, amazing, right? We've sold the spots. They're running in our European channel through Plex and some of these other platforms. We see that as a bigger expansion. Political, yes, is an opportunity.
The U.S. in itself is a huge opportunity to grow. Obviously, I did not mean to just say, you know, military spending. We export a lot of great things from the U.S. Just did not want to get political there. Sajid, anything you want to add to that?
No. Thanks.
Can you share your percentage of variable to fixed costs?
Yeah. So I think that, you know, the biggest kind of, you know, fixed cost that we have is more of a variable cost and that's the headcount cost that we have. So, you know, that's the salary cost that we do not disclose line by line for competitive reasons. But, you know, and that kind of speaks to what we are able to do in 2023 going to 2024. We had some challenging times that we are able to pull back on our cost structure quite significantly to get through downturns. That kind of goes back to why we feel confident in our ability to invest in our business today because we have those levers to pull back if we need to.
All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. There are no further questions at this time.
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Thank you.