Yes, good morning, everybody, here from Austria, and, welcome to our first half year results presentation. I'm very happy to report, again, strong results for the Palfinger AG in the first half of 2024. We managed to increase our profitability despite, lower revenue. We'll see the numbers in a couple of minutes, presented by our CFO, Felix Strohbichler. What we as well see is still, the continued low order intake, especially in European markets, which, is still mostly driven by the construction business, and as well, still ongoing high inventories in our network. If you go to next slide, also wanted to mention some significant events in the first half of, 2024.
First of all, we managed to open the site in Löbau, which is a further expansion in our aerial work platforms , which is addressed in a way that we can further grow our business here significantly in future. It's a part of the plan and the strategy of 2027. As well, what we did, we acquired here land in Madrid to set up here our new sales and service hub, so for Spain, which is quite a significant marketplace, and as well, a marketplace which is performing quite well. Last but not least, as well, I would like to mention here that we had our Palfinger Global Sales and Service Conference in June here in Austria, with more than 300 participants from more than 60 countries all over the world.
This was somehow, and you see the picture here, building our way forward. This means here a real international event by making sure that we motivate our dealers and staff, but as well, we managed to present our vision and strategy moving forward, and to have a full alignment on our way forward in terms of motivating our network. And I think, this happened very well, and we had quite successful and happy dealers, visiting us at this conference, making sure that they're fully motivated, driving Palfinger forward, not only in 2024, but as well onwards.
Yeah, furthermore, the next slide, I think it's also important always to see where do we stand, and here, happy to report again that we managed to keep and secure our solid number one position in the marketplace, especially for loader cranes, but as well, many other lifting solutions which we provide to our customers. As you remember, in 2023, we managed to EUR 2.45 billion net revenues, which is also still quite a significant growth year-over-year, which we have shown last year. This is managed by more than 30 production sites all across the globe, and 5,000 service centers. Five thousand service centers means as well, that we are close to our customers, we are service, servicing them properly, and they can not only enjoy premium products, but as well, premium service. Roughly 12,650 employees.
This is the number by the end of the first half of 2024. As well, later on, we will reference in our presentation what's happening in the different regions as well what is expected. Here, we are close to 60% in EMEA. The good news is that we are nearly 30% in North America, exactly 27%, which is quite important to us because it's mostly driven by new product launches, but as well, the rollout of the truck mount, further rollout of the truck-mounted forklift. On the other end, LATAM, yes, is only four points, but here as well, we see positive signs, 5% in CIS and 5% in APAC.
If we move to the next slide, I think it's also very important that we can still confirm and reassure not only Europe, but as well our customers, our dealers, about our product portfolio. Here, there's no change. As I mentioned a little bit earlier here, the access platforms, the aerial work platform, which you see here in the middle on the left side, is still the portion and the part where we see further growth and where we are further investing. This was a part what we did already in Löbau. On the other product lines, so far, nothing changed. All in common is that we can provide for the entire product portfolio, digital solutions, which is for all of this in common. In combination, we go to the next slide, with the wide industry diversity, and I think this is also important.
Yes, we are depending 40% on construction business, but still close to 10% on forestry, 10% waste and management, on recycling business. I think this as well shows that we are quite resilient to the entire impact coming out of certain businesses and industries. Not to forget about transport logistics, here again, the truck-mounted forklift, which is quite well rolled out now in the United States, North America. And the public sector, the rental business, as well, strongly coming back, oil and gas, which is a part of our marine business. Offshore wind cranes, still further wind parks are developed offshore. Not to forget about fish farming, agriculture, so as well, quite important here on the marine side.
If you go to the next slide, and I think it's also important not only to stipulate where do we sit in terms of sustainability, but as well, not to forget that this is a key driver of our operational activities. So on one hand side, making sure that, for the living planet, we are all depending on in terms of less emission here. I also just wanted to highlight that we have managed to have more than 80% electricity from renewable energy. I think it's also an important topic, especially in these days, when still, oil, the, oil, the, gas supply, wind supply is still a concern. For the people we touch here in terms of safety, health, I think is also important.
This is also a part of the KPIs we are addressing here internally, that year we achieved here 8.59. And last but not least, as well, to be a value-driven entrepreneur, so to make sure that our employees can as well commit and stick to the values we have. So saying this, I would like to hand over now at this point in time to our CFO, Felix Strohbichler, for his report. Thank you.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. As Andreas Klauser already said, we can present quite a strong set of financials once again, and this despite a challenging economic environment, especially in the European markets. As you know, we have three segments in our business. I would like to start with the segment, Sales and Service, which comprises all our activities for sales and also service, not covering operation activities and not covering the separate segment of the Tail Lift division . You can see on this slide, some remarks regarding the development of the individual regions. In North America, we still have a very positive economic environment, especially for service cranes and truck-mounted forklifts. We have seen very high growth rates, and what is even more important, profitability is further increasing in North America to a very good level.
In APAC, we saw also good growth, especially in India, is a very important market for the future of Palfinger. What is not good in Asia is clearly the situation in China, and we also don't see any indications at the moment for recovery in China. Marine could perform extremely well in the first half year. We have seen around 30% of sales growth, and again, even more important, the significant increase in profitability based on the growth in service, as well as offshore and marine cranes. In EMEA, the order intake remained at a low level due to the macroeconomic development and situation, especially in Germany, France, and Scandinavia. Construction industry is extremely low, and this is impacting our order intake.
In Latin America, we have seen positive signs, and we are positive about the further development of the region, LATAM, also for the rest of the year. Last but not least, the topic to mention is that we have started the year with quite some high level of finished goods inventories, and we have set ourselves a target to bring this level down by at least EUR 50 million. Up to now, this has been challenging. We still have high stock levels, especially at our own dealers in Germany, Spain, and the USA. This will get substantially better in the second half of the year, due to the fact that we are going to reduce our capacities in EMEA over the next months, and we will talk about this later. On this slide, you can see our KPIs for the segment Sales and Service.
So external revenue went slightly down by close to 5%. However, EBIT went up substantially by 30.7%. This is also based on the fact that the transfer prices have been adapted, so you have to look at this always in combination with the segment Operations, but a very satisfactory EBIT margin in the segment Sales and Service of almost 12%. If you look at the order book number, you can see here quite some decrease, minus 22.6% compared to the previous end of June. However, still a very solid level of more than EUR 1 billion in our order book. The share of our service business is around 18%, similar level as in the first half year, 2022. Coming now to the segment Operations.
Clearly, we have lower capacity utilization in the Operations segment in EMEA, due to the fact that the market is not doing well, and that this also means that we are reducing the output in our factories. We also have reduced our manufacturing for third parties due to the demand and the economic environment. Only in North America, the production output could be increased, especially for service cranes . What does this mean for the financial KPIs of the Operations segment? The external revenue, so manufacturing for third parties, this is what you see here, has gone down by around 20% to EUR 73 million, and profitability has gone down quite significantly, simply due to the fact that the plants in Europe had a significantly lower capacity utilization compared to the previous year.
Coming now to the third segment, the segment, Other non-reportable segments, which includes the unit Holdings , so all the activities, the strategic projects we do on the holding level, plus the segment Tail Lifts , now, not only EMEA like in the last year, but also including the tail lift business in North America. And, regarding the KPIs, you can see here the increase in external revenue, which is due to the integration of Tail Lifts NAM . So this does not mean that the tail lift business has grown by more than 100%. It's the integration of North America, which could not be readjusted for the last year simply because of the carve-out, which was quite complex.
But what we can see also on the, EBIT line, that despite of inflation, despite of higher cost, the EBIT number is better due to the fact that Tail Lifts had a positive earnings contribution. Coming now to the group KPIs. Revenue has come down slightly by around 3% to EUR 1.175 billion. If you look at the EBIT line, you see, an improvement of around EUR 1 million compared to the record year 2023, which wasn't only a record year, but an absolute record year. So very strong performance in the first half year 2024, and this is due to the fact that we had very strong earnings in North America, in marine, also a contribution in Tail Lifts , which could compensate and even overcompensate the reduction in EMEA in the first half year.
This leads to an EBIT margin of 9.5%, even 0.3% better than in the record year 2023. Coming down to the last line, the consolidated net result also improved substantially, even over proportionally, due to the fact that we had a very good effective tax rate in the first half year. Regarding investments, you see here in the first half of 2024, a really high peak of EUR 93.8 million. This is due to the fact that we had some major projects which really hit, so to say, our activation of investments in the first half year. This number will not continue on this level, so we do expect around 140+ million euros of total investments for the whole year.
So the level of investments will go down by almost 50% compared to the first half. On this slide, you can see the development, especially of the net financial debt in the last line, so it went up around EUR 40 million. This is due to the fact that we still have high inventory levels, as already mentioned before. But also we had dividend payments of close to EUR 50 million in the first half year. Also, including interest payments to minority shareholders, and also the high interest rates had an impact on the net financial debt. However, if you look at the key balance sheet figures on the next slide, you can see that every single KPI on this slide improved. Equity went up substantially. Equity ratio went up by more than 1%.
Gearing and net debt, EBITDA became slightly better, and ROCE is at a healthy level of 11%, 1% almost better than in June last year. Last but not least, cash flow in the first half year. Starting from a good profitability, we still had a negative change in working capital, not as bad as in the past, but of course, our target is clearly to turn this figure to a positive figure until year-end. Which also means that, even if, until now, we have still -EUR 22 million of negative free cash flow, we clearly expect, and also guide for a clearly positive free cash flow until year-end. With this, I would like to hand over back to Andreas Klauser for the outlook.
Yeah. Thank you, Felix, for your report. I think quite impressive numbers. Still challenges ahead of us, and if we look what we face here for the rest of 2024, but as well onwards, I think it's important that we have to consider the headwinds in Europe. So we still see a quite weak environment, especially in Scandinavia, Germany, and France, which is something we can't neglect. On the other hand, we see quite positive developments here in North America, APAC and LATAM, especially North America, is kicking in quite well. Not to forget about the marine sector. The marine sector is heavily contributing in terms of EBIT, in terms of profitability. What did we do?
Especially in EMEA, we started to adjust our production capacities, so making sure that we are having run rates to satisfy the marketplace, still the orders we have on hand, but not to overstock ourselves nor our dealers. This would mean that, yes, we expect a slight decline in revenues. The good news is that still, on the profitability, we expect to be up to 20% below the previous year. So this means still in the scope, what we have announced some time ago. The focus is clearly to be positive on free cash flow. I think this is important in terms of working capital and as well, the investment volumes.
We are further reducing spending and costs, so just to make sure that we will have a good remainder of the year, good results for 2024, but as well, maximizing our order intake already for 2025, so filling further on the order book. On the last page, yes, we still stick here to our ambitious financial goals for 2027. We are facing headwinds, no doubt. So this mean, on one hand side, being the number one, the market leader in crane lifting solutions, achieving the EUR 3 billion, still being the EBIT margin of 10% and the ROCE of 12%. This concludes my presentation. Thank you for attention, and I'm handing back to the operator. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Questioners on the phone are requested to use only handsets and eventually turn off the volume from the webcast. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from the line of Markus Remis from Raiffeisen Bank International. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, gents. Congrats to the first half year. A few questions. Firstly, to put kind of the implied second half earnings generation into perspective. So when I look at your guidance, I would say H2 top line pressure should probably be a bit higher than in the first half. At the same time, there will be major earnings and margin pressure. Is that purely a function of the different regional mix, meaning that there will be a higher pressure on the European business and thus kind of a lower or a weaker regional and product mix? Or have you baked in also some, I don't know, additional costs related to the capacity adjustment?
So actually, this guidance is not based on significant costs regarding capacity adjustment, but sure, the capacity utilization will go down. It will not be possible that all the costs in production will follow the adjustments in the output, which means that the profitability in the segment Operations in the second half year will suffer. And of course, it's also a question of mix, so the reduction will affect some of the product lines and the region EMEA, which are amongst the more profitable ones. So this is clearly a mixed topic.
Sure.
But it's also a question of capacity utilization. It's not that we have factored in major one-off costs, but for example, in several factories, we will run systems like paying 90% of the salary, people working 80%, and of course-
Mm.
This does not help in terms of profitability.
Sure. Okay, very clear. Can we maybe touch the topic of capacity adjustments? Because in the report, it reads further adjust capacities. I think the last time we talked about that topic, you indicated 10%-15% capacity reduction in Europe. Is that still the base scenario, or are you already prepping up steeper reductions?
No, as Felix mentioned before, luckily, in terms of regions, we have we can manage as well to send more equipment to North America, to Latam, while Europe is still heavily suffering, which kicks in here on the profitability, especially Germany and Scandinavia. But it's still this 15%, the band, we can drive it. We just want as well to protect our key workforce, you know, which is significant to Palfinger and its technology. So I think it's quite well under control, but we need to make sure that we flatten it out, that we are not overstretching ourselves, having running full speed and then looking what's happening next year. It's more or less as we are already protecting 2024, which still certain challenges won't go away.
Okay. On that topic, I mean, you've got a pretty diverse and large production footprint. Is the streamlining of that production footprint, we need to take out smaller plants or whatever, something that you're actively pursuing now in a phase where there is probably a bit, it's a better opportunity than in the heydays where demand was rocketing.
Good, good question. I mean, I can tell you we are further optimizing and looking in any kind of options, but here we did not take yet any final decision. But we are further optimizing. We are looking heavily in efficiencies, so this means as well that when the output is going down, the run rates are going down, capacities are reduced, it's more on optimizing the efficiency.
Okay, so no plans for to take out single plants or whatsoever?
Thank you.
Could you hear me?
Yes. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So there are no plans to take out individual sites, just to get it straight? Hello?
Ladies and gentlemen, please stay with us. The line for this management seems to have disconnected. Please stay with us while we reconnect. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. We have the management connected. Markus Remis, we request you to please-
Yes, um-
Ask your question again.
Yes, so just to confirm it, there are currently no plans to take out individual sites from your production footprint?
Yeah.
You are absolutely right.
Okay.
You need, you need to slow down in the marketplace. You can do certain things in a better way than when you have the high time, so optimizing efficiency, yes.
Okay, very clear. And then the last question, if I may, relates to the order book. You kindly showed the development in sales and services, almost down a quarter year-over-year. Can you shed some light how that figure would look for the EMEA region? And maybe put on the other side, North America, so just to get an idea of the level of pressure in Europe.
So we don't disclose here numbers for the individual regions, but of course, the order book for North America is substantially longer than the order book for EMEA. This is a matter of fact.
Yeah, okay. Very clear. And the last one, the effective tax rate, you've pointed that out, it was very low. Is there any kind of indication you can share with us for the full year? Any tax rate you have in mind?
Well, for the full year, it will go up again. I think, now we are below 19%, and it will go up, to roughly 23%, which is still, quite a healthy level.
Yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. I'll get back into the line.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Patrick Steiner from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen. Congratulations on the strong first half. Two questions remaining from my side. Firstly, the order intake seems to be flat to slightly declining since Q2 2023, according to my calculations. How should we think about order dynamics for the rest of the year in terms of regions and product type? This would be the first one, and the second one, how much of the current order book is for 2024, and how much is for beyond, for 2025 or 2026? Thank you.
Well, I think, what, what we can tell here, we can see is quite important, as Felix mentioned earlier. So the run rates in North America, LatAm, and as well in the marine sector, is quite positive. So here, and especially considering the marine sector, we have already orders which are fully covering or which are partially covering the first part of 2025. North America as well, EMEA, we're still working with certain kind of tactical actions in the marketplaces. And here I can tell you, as we said, very big concern certainly about Scandinavia, Germany and France, but very positive development in markets like Spain, Italy, Greece, as well, Portugal. So the southern part of Europe is by far performing better.
In terms of total numbers, yes, it's not the same amount of numbers which we usually see from Germany, but we can offset in combination with North America. So more or less, it's a mixed bag, and as Felix mentioned earlier, we can't here disclose any further numbers related to the region or product lines.
So should we think about order intake in Q3, Q4 to stay flat or decrease further a bit? And, do you think that-
I would call it flat, flattish, flattish overall.
Yeah.
Whilst we might see still a slowdown in Germany and a further increase in North America, but overall, flattish.
Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lars Vom Cleff from Deutsche Bank AG. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much. Thanks for taking my questions this morning. Quickly staying with your order book and the composition, with regards to the construction industry, is that still on this extremely low level, or are you seeing first orders from that customer sector coming back?
Yeah, as I mentioned, it's a mixed bag, even in Europe. Yeah, so-
Okay.
Consider my core markets, Scandinavia, yes, it's still down, as well, France. If I'm considering Spain, which is well in terms of volume, quite important to Palfinger, we see a heavy increase. So even in Europe, we are having here quite different situations related to the marketplace, while North America is performing very well. And as I said, for us as well, the marine sector, in terms of profitability, is keeping quite positively.
Perfect. Thank you. And then coming back to what was just discussed, I mean, your order backlog down 23% year-on-year. Is that already worrying you, that you won't be able to show revenue growth next year, or is it too early to say?
It's by far too early to say. I mean, we still have quite volatile market environment. And, you know, I think what we all need to learn here, that we need to deal with this volatile market environment and approach and apply maximum flexibility. So it's not, it's, it's for sure something we need to carefully watch, but it's not really a major, major concern, okay?
Perfect. Thank you. I assume you're still not seeing major cancellations from your order book like you did in the past, all under control?
We don't see, we don't see any cancellation so far, because as well, our dealers are as well more cautious, okay? Because they see already that, construction business, which is an important part of our business, is not really growing. And then, as I said, considering different areas and different countries, even a mixed bag. So dealers are cautious. We are cautious, so b ut, we also want to avoid that we lose any potential orders, so we have the appropriate sales action in place. And I think looking forward, so we are confident that we can manage as well the second part of 2023.
Perfect. Thank you. Then, your net working capital staying on a relatively elevated level, I guess the reasoning is the same that we also touched on when in the Q1 call. In some cases, you're missing the trucks, but the crane is already there. In other cases, your end customers are not picking up the ready truck, or are there any other headwinds you're facing currently?
Well, you named it. I would say that today, the truck supply is not an issue in terms of we don't get the trucks in order to install our equipment. It's rather that we sometimes got too many trucks at once, which had been ordered for a longer period of time, have been delivered due to the fact that the market has slowed down. So we have significant levels of stock of trucks in those product lines, where we also buy trucks. Then we have still the issue of capacity bottlenecks in the installation network in Europe, especially. The reason is that the installation network sees the market calming down. Nobody's investing in further capacities, nobody's hiring people, so nobody's speeding up, so to say, the pipeline in terms of installation.
The only way how to decrease here the inventory is really to slow down production and to decrease the production output, what we are doing in the second half year. We clearly expect a positive impact on the net working capital, based on the fact that we are reducing the output, and this will help to empty the pipeline.
Excellent. Many thanks. Then one final question, if I may, before you mute me, because I'm asking too many questions. Pricing, are you facing any pricing pressure from your customers, given that they also expect truck manufacturers to lower their prices? And then input pricing, are your input prices still coming down, so the margin is still okay-ish future, looking into the future? Or, is that worrying you, because input prices are coming up again?
Yes, again, as we said earlier, yes, the market is under tension, luckily, not all the marketplaces. As well, the costs are further going down in terms of material costs, but as well in terms of, let's say, costs, which we managed to reduce already from beginning of the year. On the other hand, yes, we fight for business, we fight for the volume, but everything, let's say, as well in our numbers, in our forecast we are currently making today, everything is more or less considered.
I mean, what we have to, to add, perhaps, is, and I mentioned this before, in the second half year, we will see a negative impact from personnel cost. On the one hand, we will see an increase of personnel cost once again. For example, in Austria, we do expect 4%-5% salary increases, which will hit us quite substantially. And then also, due to the fact that we are reducing the output, but we cannot fully adjust, and we don't want to fully adjust the workforce, this will also lead to additional costs, which will have an impact indirectly, but then also on the gross margin.
Excellent. Many thanks. I'll go back into the line.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Daniel Lion, with Erste Group. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good morning. Thank you for letting me on. I would like to actually touch on similar topics at the beginning. As we've just heard, to what extent would you, or do you expect you might need some more aggressive pricing strategies in order to bring down inventory levels and also general inventories in the second half year? Or would you expect that it is really enough to reduce manufacturing for some time?
So what I would say here, I think it's important we have all the actions in place, but it's not, you know, spread over all the products and over all the regions. So we are addressing, like in Germany, we are having quite serious sales actions in place. But everything is considered, Felix mentioned earlier, in the forecast we have provided here, that the EBIT might be up to 20% below previous record year. So I think this is something which, which is important. We don't want here to further disclose any sales strategy, so I think you can, you can imagine here. But, as I said, the actions are in place. The dealers are appreciating.
Yes, the cake is shrinking, no doubt, and the aggressivity will go ahead and will continue to be present. But on the other hand, as I said, luckily, it's a premium product, it's a premium brand, and still customers wanting quality products from Palfinger themselves.
Hmm. Yeah, okay. Makes sense. Makes sense. Could you remind us, please, how you define your order intake again? Is it only orders you get in before you start working on them? Or, is everything in the order intake until you deliver to the client? Especially also related to your inventory levels, would the inventory levels also be reflected in the order book? Could you shed some more light on this?
So the order book is actually what has not been invoiced, and it does not include the order book in manufacturing for third parties, and it does not include the order book for Tail Lifts .
Okay, but services are included?
Service is actually not really included, because here it's not worth looking at the order book, because this is a very short order book, simply because this is one of the USPs of Palfinger, to be here the service champion and to provide service very quickly after we get the order here.
Okay. Okay, understood. You mentioned the peak CapEx first half year, and stated that you would expect second half year to be down, like, 50%. So this means that we should arrive somewhere between EUR 130 million and EUR 140 million for the full year. Is this something you can confirm?
Sorry, I didn't get the numbers. You said for the EBIT, it's about?
No, no, not EBIT, CapEx.
Ah.
The CapEx level, CapEx, we had, like, EUR 90-90 million in the first half year. You said, like, 50% lower in the second half.
Yes, so I would,
This would add up to 130-140.
In a model, I would put in around EUR 140 million.
Yeah. Okay, perfect. Perfect. And then I would, you know, it's not like, as you say, not every market is the same in Europe, especially when looking at Eastern Europe. Poland, for example, you have a very strong construction activity. I was just wondering, why it is so difficult to build up scale in Eastern Europe or Poland, especially, as this could definitely be one of the markets to offset weakness in other European countries. Why is it so difficult to penetrate Poland, for example, stronger than it is the case currently?
Yeah. This is not the question of penetration, this is an equation of premium products. So, and it's related to the specifications. So what we see in Germany, Scandinavia, you know, we see premium products as well in terms of highly specced, while in Poland, and we have good volumes there, and as well, looking forward, looks quite good. But the specs of the products are at the lower scale. So this means the high-value products are mostly going to Germany, France, Scandinavia, places like this, as well to Spain, but maybe less to the Balkan area or Eastern Central Europe.
Why is this the case, when in the end, when you look at the markets, construction industry, you have the European construction companies being the major players, and still they would buy less complex trucks? Or how can I understand the situation there?
Yeah. That's the case. I mean, that's the case. In Germany, once in a while, the products look like a Christmas tree, whilst in Eastern Europe, they are more ordering more simplified product. It has as well to do with skilled workers, et cetera. But it's going in the right direction, on one hand side. And as well, like, the big construction companies, they're still having different specifications amongst the different countries. So even if it's centralized purchase, they still order different products, different product level, different specifications, all across Europe.
But they're still ordering from you, or do they use lower cost, mid-range or low-range competitors?
No, they buy, they buy mostly, mostly from us, as the, the real big customers here in Europe and as well, Austrian companies buy from us. On the other hand, it's still, for us and for our dealers, a significant secondhand market. Okay? So still, when you drive here along Highway One here in Austria, you still see trucks transporting secondhand equipment from Germany, Austria, as well from our dealers. This is as well, I would say, a quarter of the portion, how these marketplaces are satisfied with construction equipment/cranes. But we are not losing towards low-cost providers because they simply do not exist. It's more low spec.
Okay, I understand. Okay, perfect. Yeah, one more thing I wanted to ask regarding order intake. What would be the normal seasonality in terms of order intake? Would it be, like, first quarter, third quarter, strongest usually, or is it y eah, it's difficult to say, isn't it?
If you would have asked the question in 2019, I would have had an answer. In the meantime, I have to say that seasonality in order intake is not predictable anymore. So we do not see any more clear patterns. What is a pattern is that August is low, simply because people are on holiday. But everything else, in the end, in some product lines, you have a seasonality, but overall, this is not any more such a huge impact as it used to be in the years before COVID.
Hmm. Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jorge Gonzalez from Hauck Aufhäuser Investment Banking. Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning, Felix and Andreas, and thank you very much for the call. One question from my side. So I am wondering, because especially because you sound very cautious, and obviously, and you have the right to be cautious, you know, with this market. But looking into the industry estimates for next year, for instance, Euroconstruct is expecting growth, 1.4 contribution in GDP. They were 1.6 before.
So I am wondering if the industry expectations for next year, taking into account a cutting interest rates, are true, I mean, this should also help Palfinger to recover order intake, or there is any specifics of Palfinger, let's say, a very young fleet of cranes in the portfolio of your clients, or maybe a worse development of the specific residential sector. Is there anything that is making you to be cautious for next year? Or this will be market takers, in the sense that if we see growth next year, Palfinger should benefit from it, at the same level than any other companies now with exposure to the sector. Thank you.
I mean, in general, we see the market rather flattish year-over-year, I would say. While still, Q1, Q2 might still have some challenges. On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, it's more important in these days to deal with this volatility in terms of flexibility and as well in terms of efficiency. And I think this is the homework we did quite well so far. We will further work on that, but I would rather see the marketplace itself flattish all across the globe. As I said, it's very different if you talk about Germany or if you talk about Spain. It's very different if you compare France with Italy. So Italy is still doing quite well.
We need to tackle this, and luckily we have, let's say, all our sensors in the different marketplaces that we can deal with it.
I think what I would like to add, we have around 50% of our volumes in Europe, and they are, of course, a large percentage in Germany, France, and Scandinavia. And just talking about Germany, there is no indication at the moment that the construction industry would come back in the short term. So even if interest rates come down slowly, we still have a very low level of building permits, of new projects being developed. So until this really comes back, it will take time. So I think it's not realistic for Central Europe to assume a boom in the near future. It's quite realistic that we see a slight improvement from a low level, but a quick recovery in the region of Central Europe and Northern Europe is not to be expected in the next few quarters.
But to add here as well, on the other hand, we see quite positive demand now coming from North America. Consumption is going on, and some of you remember that we had always challenges years ago in terms of truck-mounted forklift, which is now a key seller in the U.S. market, a quite profitable one. As well, Latam, and especially Brazil, is performing again quite well. And again, the marine sector. So the marine sector, yes, it's not a huge, huge portion of our entire business, but the profitability is getting quite good there. And as well, in terms of long-term contracts, we are satisfying, yeah? And also, and I can't here disclose more, but as well here on the defense side, we are quite performing well.
I mean, we had here different shows which we served, and where we as well will be participating in these contracts for the next five to seven years. But as you can imagine, and unfortunately, even, it's quite urgent in the situation of Europe now, but still, the contracts are not awarded immediately overnight. But this is all in the pipeline, so where you can be quite sure that we will see, again, increases towards the end of next year and further successful business out of Palfinger.
Okay. So, a quick follow-up. So when you d id you, you were mentioning flat development. This means that, despite the very strong first semester, maybe next year, if, if, if the construction is flat or slightly better, you can do similar, results, or it's too early to say?
Well, it's too early to give the guidance, but of course, we strive for not seeing a major hit to Palfinger also in 2025, and we are taking the actions to compensate as far as possible the weakness of the European central markets.
Understood. Thank you very much. I go back to the line.
Thank you. We have a follow-up question from the line of Markus Remis, from Raiffeisen Bank International. Please go ahead.
Hi, yeah, a question regarding this installation capacities. I'm trying to get my head around on what you said, because I would think that the declining demand would also free up installation capacity. So, why are they still jammed?
No, the situation is that now, as well, our dealers got certain trucks in one run. So usually, you know, when the market was still quite high as well, the truck supply went step by step. So now, instead of the three trucks which you expected for the months, you're getting five, yeah? So it's somehow unbelievable, but that's the case here. And then you have to plan your installment base and making sure that the installment can work quite well. And this is then as well something you need to plan. So if a smaller dealer has too many trucks on his yard, he can't do it all in once.
On the other hand, we are not adding capacity here significantly, because we want to flatten it out, that we have a proper run rate and a more stable run rate the next couple of months.
Okay. Yeah, I'm just trying to understand, because if just looking at your order book and taking that as a proxy for the market, if you were down 20%, and Europe arguably is down stronger, I think there must be some leeway emerging sooner or later in the installation base, and that should then-
Yeah, this is a matter of fact. At the moment, for example, in Germany, even if the market is low, the installation capacity is fully booked, even until the beginning of 2025. The reason for this is that our installation network does not invest in further capacities, seeing already the difficult market environment. So only by reducing the output, it's possible to bring down the levels of inventories and to empty, so to say, not to empty, but at least to bring the installation capacity close to what is actually required, and this will then have an impact on our stock levels.
and then if I may follow up with two more bookkeeping questions. The first would be in the financial result, can you single out for us the interest result? Just to get an idea of what that looks like.
I don't have the exact number right now. We will provide this, but you can roughly-
Okay.
calculate with, you know, we have around EUR 16 million, I would assume, just taking the average interest rate and the financial debt. So this is probably the number, but I don't have my laptop open now, so I can't give you the exact number.
16, yeah. Okay, thank you. And how should we think about the margin in North America? Can you give us any idea what profitability level has been reached?
Yeah, we are at double-digit profitability, and there is still room for improvement.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is a follow-up from Patrick Steiner, from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Hi again. Just one quick follow-up from my side. Could you maybe give us a more detailed picture on, firstly, the revenue share by product type in North America, and also on the demand by product type? I mean, is the demand high across all product, or are there some weaknesses in certain regions as well?
No, it depends as well in terms of if it's logistics, if it's construction. Here as well, we have a bit of a mixed bag. But overall, the numbers are looking quite positive in North America. We can't disclose here any, anything further, but I can tell you that the North American market was an important driver now already last year, and will be a further important driver this year and next year. So we see quite positive developments.
In what we disclosed, and this is also in the presentation, that the demand for service cranes and for truck-mounted forklift s are, so to say, the driving forces in North America for Palfinger.
Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I now hand the call back over to Andreas Klauser, CEO, for closing comments.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating here. Thank you for your questions. I think we could satisfy all your requirements, and as I said, we are looking forward now into the summer break, and therefore, I'm happy that you managed to join us, but as well to the remainder of the year. Palfinger will stay strong this year, next year, and the years to come. Thank you very much. Thank you for your attention.