CEO Thomas Winkler and the CFO Patric Thate, who will speak in a moment and guide us through the presentation and the results. After the presentation, we will move on to analysts' Q&A session. As an institutional investor, we would like to invite you to contact UBM Development AG directly after the earnings call to clarify any questions you may have. We are looking forward to the results. Having said this, Mr. Winkler, please, the stage is yours.
Thank you, Ingmar, and good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining our quarterly management presentation and your interest in UBM Development. If we move to chart one, the headline of this chart could also be promised and delivered. This might sound boring, particularly for the analysts, because they like to report about something new, but for us, it's exciting. One, we promised that the resi asset class is out of the crisis. Q3 delivered another proof, with resi sales having increased by 25% over the first three quarters of 2024. Our pipeline of 2,800 apartments should give you comfort for the future. Two, we promised a profitable Q3, and we delivered it, together with a strong balance sheet and an equity ratio of 30%. We have also successfully issued another green bond and have raised a total of EUR 166.5 million from the capital markets this year alone.
Four, we promised a business model improvement, and it's underway. Five, we have promised to stay the sustainability industry leader in the DACH region and delivered it by the reaffirmation of our rating. Finally, six, we have promised a significantly better 2025 than 2024, and we confirmed this outlook today at the end of November. Please follow me to chart number two. In the third quarter, we continued to see very strong momentum in residential sales. With 355 units sold year to date, we are clearly on track to reach around 450 units for the full year, i.e., by year-end. That would represent more than a 10% growth compared to last year, even though 2024 included a one-off global sale of 124 apartments in Munich, which makes the performance this year, at least to my reading, even more impressive.
At Leopold Quartier in Vienna, pre-sales are now above 70%, and the first buyers will soon be handed over their apartments. Nábřeží in Prague is above 65% pre-sales off-plan, even though completion will only be in 2027. Village im Dritten in Vienna is above 60% on average across all four resi projects. These high pre-sale levels give us a solid forward visibility and underline the resilience of demand in our core markets. Vienna and Prague remain the key drivers of this strong momentum. Please follow me to chart three. Let us have a closer look on Vienna, Prague, as well as on our core geographies in Germany, and why the demand-supply imbalance can only continue and will support our prices. Let's start on the left with Vienna. Here you can see a very clear trend. Residential completions are falling dramatically by more than 46% from 2023 to 2026.
This decline affects all segments: ownership, pre-market rent, and subsidized housing. At the same time, Vienna's population is growing with 22,000 new residents in the last 12 months. More and more project developers drop out of the market, and we see this development to continue also in the future. The result is clear: less supply, more demand to come. This explains why average prices in the inner districts, so not only in the first district, all within the Gürtel, are now close to EUR 9,500 per sq m. If you look at the center chart, we see a very similar picture in Prague. Prague has one of the longest-lasting housing under-supplies in Europe. Prices increased again in Q3.
Remember, it was 17% in a year-on-year comparison in the half-year, so the prices went up 1.3% compared with Q2, and now stand at around impressive EUR 7,111, of course, in Czech koruna, per sq m. The typical apartment size is 63.8 sq m. UBM is perfectly positioned in Smíchov, one of the most attractive residential micro-locations in the city. On the right, you see the heat map for Germany, visualizing the imbalance between demand and supply. Our cities, if I may say so, Munich, Frankfurt, and Berlin, remain deep in the red, meaning demand significantly exceeds supply. With 76% or more than 300,000 sq m in timber hybrid projects, we are well on our way to becoming one of the leading developers of timber hybrid buildings in Europe.
This has only been possible because even throughout the challenging past four years, we continued to invest consistently in our pipeline, more than EUR 108 million this year alone. You can find the details in the backup. Today, we are benefiting from projects that are nearing completion and can be brought to the market. In other words, UBM is fully participating in the residential rebound. Now to Patric.
Thank you, Thomas, and good morning, everybody. Please turn to slide number five. In the third quarter, we continued the positive momentum from earlier this year. After returning to a black zero in the second quarter, we were able to build on that foundation and increased our earnings before tax to EUR 1.9 million in Q3. This marks our second consecutive profitable quarter. Once again, the key driver was a strong performance in individual apartment sales coming out of POC. Revenue for the first nine months has now reached EUR 97 million, reflecting this continued sales momentum. At the same time, we maintained strict financial discipline. Net debt stands at EUR 583 million. Our balance sheet remains stable at EUR 1.164 billion. Overall, the trend is very clear. Revenues are growing, earnings improving, and the balance sheet remaining in good shape.
With the profitability Q3 behind us, we are on track for a profitable second half of the year, delivering what we promised. Let us now take a closer look at the key performance indicators. At the end of the third quarter, our equity ratio stood at 30%, within our target range of 30%-35%. Equity amounted to EUR 349 million. In recent years, we have successfully strengthened our balance sheet structure, most recently through the issuance of a green hybrid bond in May, which further improved our equity base and capital structure. Our cash position remains stable and in line with our internal planning. We closed Q3 with EUR 142 million cash, which once again demonstrates our strong and reliable cash management over the years. At the same time, our access to financing remains open when it comes to project financing and the capital market.
In the fourth quarter, we will further improve our balance sheet and corresponding balance sheet ratios by repaying the remaining 2019 bond and promissory notes, approximately EUR 90 million in total. Let us now take a closer look at our bond maturity profile and the successful issuance of a EUR 75 million green bond last month. Please turn to chart number seven. We have built a strong and reliable track record in the capital market, and at the end of October, we successfully issued our fourth green bond, further underscoring our commitment to sustainable financing. This year alone, we raised EUR 140 million in bond financing and another EUR 26 million promissory notes. We are one of a few developers who are able to tap the capital market. We have flattened the redemption profile for the years ahead, which gives us more predictability and stability in our financial structure.
With the full transition of our bond financing to green instruments, we are exactly where we want to be strategically: focused, consistent, and aligned with our long-term positioning. Before we move on, I want to take a moment to thank all our investors for their trust, especially those joining us on today's call. Your continued support is something we truly appreciate. Let us now turn to UBM's business model, or more precisely, to our adapted business model. As a project developer, we operate along a clearly structured value chain that takes us from the initial idea to the completed property. It begins with the concept phase, where vision and objectives are defined. In the planning phase, these are translated into concrete steps and form a reliable basis for implementation. A key element of our adapted business model is prefabrication.
It shortens construction times and therefore interest expenses, reduces cost risks, improves planning reliability, and enables economies of scale and consistent quality through industrial production. That we have successfully put this approach into practice is demonstrated by our first timber hybrid project, Timber Pioneer in Frankfurt, where we achieved a prefabrication rate of 23%. This project marked the starting point of our journey into serial and modular construction and already showed the benefits of prefabrication. In the following project, the Leopold Quartier office in Vienna, we increased the share to 43%. The direct comparison illustrates how consistently we have evolved our business model within a short period and how we continue to learn from each project to further enhance efficiency and quality. As you know, we have discussed operational improvements in detail in several previous conference calls, so I will keep it very brief here.
All underlying assumptions come from real UBM projects, and the full breakdown is provided in the backup. On the residential side, our tomorrow view shows clearly rising margins driven by lower construction and incidental costs while sales prices go up. Margin per square meter more than doubles, which underlines the potential of standardization and consistent execution. In office and light industrial, construction costs are moving in our favor as well. If we achieve our targeted cost levels and sell at around 5% yield or 20x annual rent, the asset class becomes profitable again and not only break even. The detailed calculation is also included in the appendix. The core message is simple: our measures are working, and we can restore profitability in both asset classes. Back to Thomas.
Thank you, Patric. Slide nine, please. As I mentioned before, the carbon pricing of buildings is without an alternative.
Buildings produce 37% of all carbon emissions worldwide. If you want to soften the costs of climate change, you need to price the CO2 emissions, be it through carbon taxes, be it through emissions trading certificates. This puts timber at an advantage or will increase the price of steel and cement as building materials going forward. Where do we stand with UBM's carbon balance sheet? More than half comes from our development activities, which is no surprise. More than 75% of our future projects are in timber construction and will benefit the carbon balance sheet. Remember, one cu m of timber stores one ton of CO2. One cu m of concrete emits between 600 kg-800 kg of carbon in its production. Roughly 1/5 of our carbon footprint is generated by our standing assets. Our offices and carbon emissions from mobility are less than 10% and therefore of minor importance.
We have developed a clear transition plan with defined targets and, most importantly, all our employees are fully bought in. Wait for the carbon footprint to come back to the agenda. It might happen rather sooner than later. Let me come to the close of our formal presentation by turning to the outlook on slide 10. As can be seen from the first nine months' numbers, 2025 will be significantly, significantly better than 2024. This is what we predicted, and this is what we shall deliver. The flight to real assets has started, and I expect hotels to be the next asset class to get out of the crisis. Good for us, as we still have five hotels on the shelf, quote unquote. The demand-supply gap is widening in residential. The answer to how to provide sufficient housing will influence, if not even decide, the next elections throughout Europe.
The big open question, of course, is: when is office going to come back? The honest answer is: we all do not know. So we better have a plan B, as it will be executed for Timber Pioneer. We are parking this asset for up to three years by financing it as a standing asset, which should free up a double-digit million liquidity effect for us. However, liquidity management remains in our focus and will occupy our minds also most of next year. At the same time, the foundation for future profits will also be started to be laid next year. With this prediction, I thank you for your attention and would like to open the line for your questions.
Yes, thank you very much for the presentation, and we will now move on to the analyst Q&A session. We kindly request that only analysts ask questions during this Q&A. All other participants are invited to contact the investor relations team following the call. Thanks for your understanding. To ensure a dynamic and interactive discussion, we encourage you to ask your question live via the audio line. To do so, please click the Raise Your Hand button. If you have dialed in by phone, press star nine followed by star six. We start with Mr. Bruhns. Mr. Bruhns, you should be able to speak now.
Yes, hello. Thank you for the presentation on the Q3 number, and congratulations for the second consecutive quarter with a positive EBT. I have several questions on the gross profit margin in Q3. It seems to be quite high, above 50%. Could you give us a little bit of background on this figure, and can we expect a similar strong performance in Q4? Maybe in addition, can you give me an update on how many completed apartments in which cities have not yet been sold? Of course, I'm also very interested in the situation in the hotel sector. On the standing assets, there you report that the real estate office market remains difficult, but I would also like to know your assessment on the hotel sector. Thank you.
Okay, maybe I start, Christian, on the profit margin. Good question. Predominantly, our profit currently is coming out of the already sold apartments because we are showing that from the POC point of view, and most of the apartments which are under construction are in the erection phase, meaning they come to an end. Predominantly, this is coming. On the future trend, this will prolong for a certain time as we give the apartments in the next step to the buyers, and hopefully, we are also selling the ones which are not sold yet, which was another question you had. It comes from the apartments.
Let me jump in here. You've asked for the completed apartment projects, which we have only three, okay? One is Timber Praha, and we have approximately a dozen of apartments, 12 apartments left. It might also be 10 by now.
A small number out of 64 apartments, if I remember correctly. In Mainz, we have approximately 35 completed apartments not sold. In Vienna, only Village im Dritten, number 11, so field number 11, is completed, and there are three apartments left that have not been sold yet. You see, I could say on the basis of completed apartments, you're almost sold out. Does this answer your question?
Yes, it does. Thank you.
Your other question was on hotels. I have mentioned it in the call already, and my kind of light at the end of the tunnel stems from the EXPO REAL, right? That was at the beginning of October, and I am still waiting for news to be officially publicized. There was talk about serious institutional investors. I am not saying that others are not serious, but I am talking about the big names, okay, are coming back and buying hotels, for example, here in Vienna.
If this is happening, this might be kind of the signal for everyone else that they might be too late, and they will come back to the market because what we've seen in the last three years were not the big institutional buyers, but either family offices for smaller hotels, i.e., below 150 keys, or more exotic buyers that wanted to own a hotel in a city they haven't been. For us, this means, as we have, as I said, five hotels on the shelf, that could be a positive one. I don't expect that prices will immediately recover to where they should be, but as the price for newly built hotels is above the existing ones simply because of the construction price development, I expect that these will be cleared before the rest.
We all know that we have several cities where you do not find a bed, neither in the hotel segment nor in the Airbnb segment now before Christmas. Does this answer your question?
Yes, thank you very much. It will not be the case. There will be no divestment in the current year, I think.
Yes. No, do not expect one this year. You need to see that the lead time for such negotiations is a minimum of four months, but the average is six months. I have also seen negotiations taking nine months. You need to consider the lead time. This is why I am not disappointed or kind of hesitant about the rumors that I picked up at EXPO REAL because that is two months ago.
Okay.
Thank you for your questions.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you very much for your questions, Mr. Bruhns. We move on to the next participant, Mr. Scharff. You should be able to speak now and place your question.
Yeah, good morning, gentlemen. Stefan here from SRC Research. I have a couple of questions. It's about your projects. Let's talk about Timber Peak in Mainz, which is to be completed until the end of the year. That means in the next weeks. Perhaps could you give us an update here? Also about the B section of Leopold Quartier in Vienna. This could rather be a hotel, perhaps, or also be a serviced apartment property. What are your plans here? For Mainz, of course, how is the letting at the moment? How are the negotiations for more space to rent?
Okay. Thank you, Stefan, for your questions. In Mainz, we have one office project, and the office projects are the only ones that we need to find tenants, okay, because for the resi projects, we find buyers. Now we have Dexcom as the main tenant in Timber Peak, and it occupies 23%. The build-out is happening as we talk. For those who are on LinkedIn or other social media, they almost get live pictures because there is a very regular reporting on the progress that they're making, and the views are amazing, even though it's like mobile phone pictures. That's where we stand. We hope, of course, for more tenants in the near future, but too early to report. The interest is there, okay? Your second question was on Leopold B. That's a completely different story because we haven't even started with Leopold B.
Leopold B is divided in two parts. There's Leopold B1, and sorry for being a bit technical and not very sexy names. That is facing the street, and that needs to be commercial living, i.e., it could be a hotel, it could be long-stay apartments, or something of this kind. Leopold B2, okay, facing to the backyard, which is not the backyard view, but more noise protected, is a straightforward resi apartment project, which depends a bit on B1, okay? I think this is kind of answering your questions, but maybe you repeat the one that I might have missed.
No, no, that's it because a hotel might work because it's so close to the first quarter in Vienna and to the city center of Vienna, so a hotel might properly work there.
It will definitely work. I mean, the question is if it works for us commercially. I mean, without wanting to sound arrogant, but I think location-wise, it's very difficult to point out a new-build project in Vienna that has a better location than the Leopold Quartier because, as you pointed out and you're familiar with Vienna, it's adjacent, okay? There's a little canal, the Donauk anal, separating the first district from this project in the second district. What also is worth mentioning, it's not even 10 minutes' walking distance from Augarten. Now, if anybody who hasn't been to Vienna knows Augarten, it might be from the Postland, but it's a big recreational park. It's like green and city. It has enough parking for offices. Location-wise, it's difficult to be beaten.
Yeah, yeah. I did the property tour, and you sold already almost all apartments. That was great. Another topic is the Timber Works in Munich. It's like Timber Peak in Mainz, also about 10,000 sq m. Here, completion is planned in about two years in the mid of 2027. Perhaps what are your plans here, or do you also have some negotiations here with tenants as this is a good leading commercial project in Munich?
You've perfectly framed it. First step first. We first have to find a tenant. Only if we find a tenant or enough tenants above 25% occupancy, we would start the project. This is not where we are as yet. I mean, everybody is aware of the current economic situation, which makes decisions very, very slow. I'm confident because it's opposite to Olympiazentrum , underground station. From the location, it's also one of the best locations for at least certain purposes that I can think of in Munich.
Okay, okay. In Munich, the big Timber Living project has more than 200 apartments to be completed in 2028. Perhaps you will start during next year or end of next year with some construction work. How is the status here of the building permits? Did you receive all, or what do you still expect to come in next year? Is there a split now of the social supported flats and free market flats? What can you say here a bit more?
Yeah, sure. Look, a dangerous question because I could now start about the kind of discrepancy between the demand for apartments, which is significant in Munich, okay? And the difficulties, which to a certain extent I understand because we are in a democratic legal system, but every neighbor can kind of impose and if it's only to get some money out of us and injunction. Injunction is the wrong English word because it has no Aufschiebende Wirkung, okay? As a stock-listed responsible developer, you need to get it out of the way before you start. Always remember, we give you to the best of our ability an expected completion date because this is what you justifiedly ask for, but we cannot do anything about neighbors trying to slow down the project for whatever reason. Now, having said this, this is the case with Timber Living.
As I said, we do not take the risk that we get an injunction, which would stop our construction work. We need to get this out of the way. Just to be clear, we get good support by the public authorities. It is not in this case the public authorities. It is that every neighbor can kind of hold you up and aggravate the situation in this respect.
I see, I see. Yeah, it's welcome in Germany. Yeah. It's a mess sometimes here in Germany, in particular in the big German hubs to build new residential units. Not easy.
I can tell you it's not only Germany. It's also Austria. Thank you for your questions.
Thank you.
Good questions. Thank you.
Yes, thank you very much. We move on to the next participant, Mr. Stippig. You should be able to speak now and unmute yourself with star six. Mr. Stippig, you should be able to speak now. Yes, I think we can hear you. Please try.
Hi. Good morning. Good morning to you, Vienna. Thank you very much for the opportunity to ask some questions as always. First one, and I follow on with some projects. One particular project I saw this morning that you sold part of the Timber Marina Tower. I would be interested in some insights into the context of the sale, reasons for the sale, potentially some shared development financing, and also in regard to the transaction value given the purchase price you paid in 2023. If I assume closing of the transaction in Q4, how will this transaction actually impact your P&L? I wonder, should that not turn your result positive for the full year then? One more question in regard to Outlook.
Is there a potential quantitative guidance for 2026, or could you at least provide some larger items such as transactions or specific transactions you're targeting for next year that would materially impact your expectations for 2026?
Let me start with the first question. Yes, we have events after the cut-off date. We have a number of these events. This time, we've closed the share buyback program, and we've issued the bond on the 24th of October. Yes, we have sold 50% of Timber Marina Tower. The reason is we are making pretty good progress with the execution. Construction companies try to pin down their contract with us by taking a participation in such a project. Again, to kind of cool a little bit the expectation, what you need is a tenant, okay? The tenant is the decisive factor. As I said, we've made very good progress regarding construction prices. That is an optimal point in time to take a partner then on board.
It also helps on the construction price side because he's benefiting from the sale of the project if he is, like in this case, a 50% partner. Now, your question was, how is it impacting Q4? Maybe I pass on to Patric.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Simon, good morning. The effect of the whole transaction is obviously we have not got a gain. We never touched the project, but we developed the project further. The costs we have put into the project over the time, that has been paid by the partner who acquired the 50%. There will not be a positive effect in terms of P&L. There will not be a negative effect in terms of P&L. It is a book value transaction predominantly. From this perspective, it will not help us, and it will not harm us in the fourth quarter when it comes to our EBT and so on. Basically, that was your question, I think.
Yeah. Now, on the expectation, I think I've been pretty outspoken on 2025. In 2025, we expect Q4 to be a logical continuation of Q3. We are now at the end of November, but year-end is always a dangerous point in time because a lot of people take influence on what you have. I mean, we are all clear. Interest rates haven't moved in any direction. So from expert opinion's point of view, I don't see any issues. You never can outrule a transaction that happens in the last minute in a neighboring comparable project that might influence the price. By and large, 2025 can be ticked off, okay? You know that we've made a loss in Q1, and we don't go any further than saying we believe that Q4 is also a positive one. You end up ±0 .
On 2026, okay, there are a couple of observations. It's going to be another tough year. No doubt about it because a lot of effects come with delay, okay? You see this awareness rising on what's happening on the market because there is a significantly lower number of developers on the market already, okay? It will take a time to actually settle in the people's, in the buyers, in the investors' mind. Now, I could even give you a SWOT analysis on what I think is 2026, but I think it doesn't take us very far because it's based on a myriad of assumptions. As I said, I'm cautiously, cautiously underlined 2x , optimistic that the hotel segment, because it's not the full asset class, could attract interest from the regular investors more than we have seen between 2020 and 2025.
That is an advantage for us who have hotels on the shelf. What the prices are going to do remains to be seen. I mean, the good news is we can run these hotels, and we can wait, but it's not our intention, okay? Clearly. Did I answer your questions, or did you have a more specific one on 2025, 2026?
Of course. I would like to know what will be the EBT number for next year. Now you answered it. I'm happy with what you said. Just still maybe two quick follow-ups. One is you said you concluded the share buyback in Q3. I think you initially announced up to EUR 3 million. I think now you're at EUR 1.9 million. You bought back a bit more. Did I understand it right that you concluded it? That's the volume you will allocate towards returning capital to shareholders? The second question would be in regard to what you said in the hotel sector. Do you have an update on the sales process with Jochberg? Of course, I heard you when you say lead times are very long, up to nine months, maybe even longer.
I heard six months, at least four months, but maybe there's some additional ongoing development you can speak about.
Yeah. Look, Jochberg is on the market. We have a partner there. He's decided also to sell it. We have to see how much interest it attracts. I would not expect any event happening in the first quarter. I'm even hesitant to say in the second quarter there is a potential, but a deal is only signed once the money is on the escrow account. Now, on the share buyback, we had the permission for this share buyback until the 18th of November. We closed it slightly before and did not use the full amount of money, which kind of tells you that it has been running quite smoothly. To be honest, the idea at the end was to close it on a day when we are at 7,350,000 shares so that I can remember it even when I'm waking up at 3:00 A.M.
I think it was doing good to us. As I said, the permission that was granted ended on the 18th of November, so it's done.
Great. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We have one participant. Mr. Hedeh, you should be able to speak now. Please, your question.
Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. First one would be on your current team that you're carrying. Your development pipeline should likely go down because office projects, they're finalized, residential projects, they're also soon to be handed over to the buyers. I was just wondering if you see any necessary adjustments in the team size going forward as the developed pipeline is shrinking, or if you want to or plan to ramp it up again. Maybe the second one is, on the residential segment, basically on the slide that you had in your deck, you mentioned that profits could double in the residential segments as prices increased and costs on the other side are going down. I was just wondering how far is that actually out, do you think? Will this already affect profitability in the residential segment over the nearer term?
Speaking 2026, 2027, that would be it from my side. Thank you.
Okay. Look, first question, always a very sensitive one. Let's look back a little bit. We were coming in the year 2023 from 355 employees, and we are standing end of Q3 at 211. That is, if I get my maths right in my head, 40% reduction, okay? Which I would call significant. Almost the same, by the way, is true on the personal costs, which is even more amazing. I mean, it's closer to 30%- than 40%- , but that's even more impressive, if you want, because we had increases in terms of inflation, okay? So we have offset this as well. I think reviewing your cost base in general, okay, is one of the top duties of management in a situation as we are all in, okay? Which is an economically depressed situation.
You have to strike the balance between are we set up for a rebound on the one hand, and on the other hand, are we not kind of burdening our platform with more costs than it can digest? I guess you have an understanding that I leave it there with your question, but rest assured, and you can see that from our track record in the past, that not only personal costs, but costs in general are also closely monitored, as is liquidity.
Coming to your resi margin question. On slide eight where you are pointing it, what you can see from this slide is that in the former times, a margin of 10% in the resi sector was kind of okay-ish. Why was that the case? Because resi is always with less equity to be developed as you get more tailwind from the banks. If people are buying it, individual buyers are buying it, you are in certain countries, for example, Austria, you have a law that they are placing piece-by-piece payments into it. Yes, we are able to double that, and we can see that already in most of our projects, predominantly when it comes to the Czech Republic, a margin of 20% is a doable thing. We also see margin improvements in our Austrian projects. We see coming that through.
In Austria, Village im Dritten is one of these projects where we have some of the tailwind also in construction costs. Nevertheless, we see that the margins are coming through. That was the reason why I answered the question from Christian right in the beginning with the gross margin, that this is coming from POC and the residential sector. Over time, we will see it, I'm quite sure. That will help us in the future with the profitability in this sector for sure.
Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for answering questions. Thanks.
Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Hedeh. In the meantime, we have received no further questions. With this, we come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you very much for joining and your shown interest in UBM Development. Should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Investor Relations. A big thank you also to you, Mr. Winkler and Mr. Thate, for your presentation and the time you took to answer the questions. From my side, I wish you all a lovely and successful day. Stay safe. With this, I hand over again to Mr. Winkler for some final remarks.
Ingmar, you haven't left too much for me to say. Thank you for suffering with us for 50 minutes. I hope it was interesting and worth it. We are looking forward to kind of inform you about the full year and about the visibility that we have then. With this, I wish you a happy festive season. Most of you, I'm probably not going to talk to some peace over Christmas. I think we all can need it. Goodbye.
Bye.