Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Owens & Minor Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jackie Marcus, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, welcome to the Owens & Minor Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. Our comments on the call will be focused on the financial results for the second quarter of 2023, as well as our updated outlook for 2023, both of which are included in today's press release. The press release, along with the supplemental slides, are posted on the Investor Relations section of our website. Please note that during this call, we will make forward-looking statements. The matters addressed in these statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied here today. Please refer to our SEC filings for a full description of these risks and uncertainties, including the Risk Factors section of our Annual Report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.
In our discussion today, we will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures and information about these measures and reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our press release. Today, I'm joined by Ed Pesicka, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Alex Bruni, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Ed.
Thank you, Jackie, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the call today. The second quarter showed a continuation of positive momentum in many areas, including exceptionally strong cash flow, meaningful improvement in net debt, mid-single-digit organic growth in our Medical Distribution division, and continued double-digit growth in our Patient Direct segment. However, we continue to see a slow recovery in our Global Products division as demand for our higher-margin S&IP products remain constrained. One of the objectives for 2023 is to significantly reduce debt to provide flexibility for the business. Our performance in Q2 has put us well on the way to achieving this objective.
Strong execution and focus by the overall organization, combined with the Operating Model Realignment Program, has led to over $300 million in operating cash flow in the quarter, driven by the reduction of working capital, net proceeds from AR sales, and the disciplined capital deployment. After celebrating the one-year anniversary of the acquisition of Apria at the end of the first quarter, Q2 marks the first quarter with a year-over-year comparison of the Patient Direct segment. After a year of double-digit pro forma growth in each of the previous four quarters, I am pleased to report that the segment continued to produce double-digit revenue growth, with top-line performance fueled by strong growth in most of our major product categories. We delivered year-over-year operating margin expansion of 25 basis points in the quarter.
It is clear that the powerful brands of Byram and Apria are working well together with a broad offering to serve the patient in the home. We remain bullish on the outlook for the Patient Direct segment for the remainder of the year, as well as the long term, as demand for chronic condition healthcare in the home continues to increase. Moving on to our Products & Healthcare Services segment. The results in this segment were mixed. In our Medical Distribution division, we saw year-over-year revenue growth accelerate to over 5%, driven by growth at our existing customers and the implementation of new wins, partially offset by the residual impact of previous losses. In addition, it should be noted that same-store sales, excluding PPE, showed growth of 10%.
However, as we recognize the positive momentum in our Medical Distribution division, it is prudent to recognize headwinds we face elsewhere, specifically in our Global Products division, as demand for our higher-margin PPE products declined year-over-year. When combined with our fixed manufacturing costs, this means we must work much harder to control cost. With elevated supply levels and lower demand for PPE, we are remaining cautious on the balance of the year given these trends. We are working hard to navigate these uncertainties, recognizing what we can and cannot control, and managing our business as closely as possible. One of the key elements to minimizing this headwind is our Operating Model Realignment Program. With our Operating Model Realignment Program well underway, we have already implemented cost-saving efforts while enhancing the processes to drive operational excellence, as well as diligently reviewing each segment's opportunity for growth.
First, within our sourcing and demand management work stream, the team has made significant strides to date, with positive results already. Second, redesigning our organizational structure will allow us to invest and build teams in areas central to our growth opportunities in the coming quarters. Third, our focus on network rationalization and operational excellence will be critical in the ongoing management of our Products & Healthcare Services segment, particularly as the broad demand challenges continue in the coming quarters. Finally, we are having important conversations with customers and partners to improve our commercial excellence and product profitability. Everyone recognizes the difficult nature of an inflationary environment, but at the same time, our customers have come to rely on our proprietary distributed products as critical components of patient care.
We are on a clear path to achieve the $30 million target for contribution to adjusted operating income in 2023 from this program, with the vast majority of the benefits in the coming months. Many of the actions have already taken place, and we are confident in the value provided by the Operating Model Realignment Program for the remainder of the year. When I look at the back half of the year, I like the opportunities presented by the Operating Model Realignment Program, the continued strength of our Patient Direct segment, and the revenue growth in our Medical Distribution division. The previously mentioned caution around the outlook of S&IP products has resulted in us slightly adjusting our full year expectations.
Finally, the team and I hope you will join us for our 2023 Investor Day in early December in Boston, at which we will share our vision for the future of Owens & Minor. I will now turn the call over to our Chief Financial Officer, Alex Bruni, to discuss our second quarter financial performance and our guidance for the full year. Alex?
Thank you, Ed. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to start by reviewing our financial results and the key drivers of our performance in the second quarter of 2023. Following that, I'll briefly touch on our outlook for the remainder of the year and the cadence for the third and fourth quarters. Starting with our second quarter results, our revenue for the quarter was $2.6 billion, which represented growth of 2.5%, and was driven by continued strong performance in our Patient Direct segment and growth in the Medical Distribution division of Products & Healthcare Services. For the quarter, Patient Direct revenue was up 10.5% versus the prior year, with strong growth across most categories, especially in our largest categories of diabetes and obstructive sleep apnea.
Products & Healthcare Services revenue was relatively flat compared to the second quarter of 2022, with growth in Medical Distribution of 5%, offset by headwinds in our Global Products division. Second quarter gross margin was $519 million, or 20.3% of revenue, compared to $533 million or 21.3% of revenue in the second quarter of 2022. The gross margin contraction was driven by a change in product sales mix, as less higher margin PPE was sold, partially offset by a reduction of LIFO expense of $6.7 million versus the prior year, driven by a significant reduction in our Medical Distribution inventory. Our distribution selling and administrative expense for the quarter was $455 million, making up 17.8% of revenue.
This expense increased by $33 million versus the prior year, primarily due to variable expenses in Patient Direct to support revenue growth, along with increased teammate benefits expenses and inflationary pressures negatively impacting wages and occupancy costs, which affected both segments. GAAP operating income for the quarter was $10.8 million, and adjusted operating income was $62 million. Strong top-line performance in our Patient Direct segment was critical to our margin performance during the quarter. Interest expense for the quarter was $41 million, which reflected an increase of $4.9 million as compared to the prior year, primarily due to interest rate increases. GAAP net loss for the quarter was $28 million, or a loss of $0.37 per common share. Adjusted net income for the quarter amounted to $14.2 million, or $0.18 per share.
Adjusted EBITDA in the second quarter was $113 million, with a margin of 4.4%. Additionally, and as Ed mentioned, our Operating Model Realignment Program continues to gain momentum, which improved our margin performance. We remain on track to achieve $30 million of contribution to adjusted operating income in 2023 from this program, as well as exiting the year with a $100 million run rate. Let's now look at cash flow, the balance sheet, and our capital structure. In the second quarter, we generated significant operating cash flow of $313 million, inclusive of $115 million in net proceeds from AR sales.
During the quarter, it became economically attractive for us to enter into a program that allows us from time to time to sell receivables related to a handful of customers across the businesses. Also, as you've seen over the trailing few quarters, our business is capable of producing strong levels of operating cash flow, which is driven by margins within Patient Direct, followed by cash conversion and rigid working capital management across all business lines. Due to the level of cash from operations, we reduced total debt by $49 million and net debt by $269 million during the second quarter. We have built invested cash balances, much of which is earmarked toward our 2024 senior notes. Presently, these investments are out earning the coupon on much of our near-term and longer-dated debt.
It's also worth noting that we have reduced total debt by $309 million since the finalization of the Apria acquisition. At the end of Q2, our total debt was $2.3 billion and net debt was $2 billion. Delevering remains a top priority. With another quarter behind us, we are able to narrow our guidance for 2023. We are revising our revenue, adjusted EBITDA, and adjusted EPS outlook to reflect our confidence in Patient Direct and the Operating Model Realignment Program, balanced against the lack of visibility and caution we have around S&IP product sales in the back half of the year. The new details are available in our press release from earlier this morning and the supplemental slide on the investor relations portion of our website.
As we think about the cadence for the second half of the year, and consistent with our expectation that our earnings will be heavily weighted to the back end of the year, it's reasonable to expect that Q4 earnings could be roughly twice that of Q3 due to traditional seasonality and moreover, timing of the realization of the Operating Model Realignment benefits. We are heavily focused on delivering savings on time and in full, as well as driving the performance of the business. Before turning the call over to the operator for Q&A, I'd like to thank all of our dedicated teammates for their efforts in enabling Owens & Minor to provide the highest quality of service to our customers. With that, I'll now turn the call over to the operator for questions. Operator?
Thank you. At this time, I would like to remind everyone, in order to ask a question, press star, then the one on your telephone keypad. We'll go first to Kevin Caliendo at UBS.
Hey, guys. A lot to unpack here, but I guess to start, sort of help us bridge first half to second half, third quarter to fourth quarter, in terms of what is embedded in the expectations to, to go from, in essence, at the midpoint, $222 million of EBITDA to $333 million in the second half? Like, what needs to happen, in your opinion, to, to get there from now, third quarter, fourth quarter? I get part of it is the, is the cost savings plan, but operationally, ordering patterns, what do you need to see to get, get comfortable that you can achieve this?
Sure. Let me break it down in different components. Let me start first with Patient Direct. Patient Direct has normal seasonality in their business, and that's historically shown. If you look at, you know, the, what the performance was last year in Patient Direct. As patients hit their deductibles, you know, the increase in the demand for products escalates at a pretty rapid pace in the back half of the year. In addition to that, just the traditional the continued strong performance in our Patient Direct business. That's the normal traditional ramp there, and we expect that to continue at the pace, if not accelerate, from where it's been historically. In the second aspect of it is, you're absolutely right on the Operating Model Realignment.
In the four major work streams that we have, you know, a lot of that work has already been done and locked in. It's just it needs to work its way through the system. Take sourcing, for example. While we've gone out and been able to source product and raw material at a lower price, you know, those products and raw material are working their way through the inventory and through the systems, which those will end up coming into place in the back half of the year. I think another example in that would be the way we've structured our organization and from our network optimization. Those actions have taken place, so those are locked in and going into the marketplace. You know, the next thing is really the continued reduction of debt.
You know, we've done a really good job on taking debt down, you know, which is actually going to help drive, you know, that impact. Not so much on EBITDA, but on the adjusted operating income. You know, then in our Medical Distribution segment, you know, the continuation of the growth in that segment and the fixed costs we're leverage we're getting in it. Lastly, which is really the, the toughest one for us to predict in, in, in full transparency, is the expectation of, of improvement within the demand for our, our products, within our Global Products division, specifically PPE. What I can say is we have seen sequential or month-over-month improvement in the demand for those products as the year has progressed.
You know, look, it's still difficult to put your finger exactly on it or put a pin on it because, you know, you know, what the customers have in safety stock. In addition to that, I don't want to miss the fact that, you know, you've got major distributors out there that carry our product and distribute them, that have significant excess stock, both of our product as well as other brands in there. You know, that's why we're trying to be cautious, that last component. You know, look, the first three or four I talked about, they're pretty much locked in. We just need to continue to execute on those.
Then the one, the one at the end is the one that's really difficult to put a pin on, which is why we're trying to be a little bit more cautious on the back half.
Can I ask a follow-up? When it comes to PPE, can you maybe talk about where the pricing is in the marketplace? Maybe, maybe more importantly than pricing, how has your competitive positioning, in your opinion, changed, if at all, over the last, you know, six months or nine months as these inventories have built and are now coming down? Are you seeing any additional competitive pressures from sourcing outside of the United States or anything else? Just help us sort of understand how the market dynamics are playing out for you, in your opinion.
Yeah, in my view, I think we've seen prices stabilize. You know, we saw a rapid decline in price in 2022, you know, but through 2023 here, they somewhat, you know, I would say, in essence, they stabilized. You know, you know, that's where I would say they are right now.
Just from a positioning perspective, do you feel like in terms of share or in the reordering that you're seeing, is it as you're expecting in terms of your share of that?
Yeah, the mix-
Are you gaining share or losing share?
No, the, the mix hasn't changed.
Okay. Great. Thank you, guys.
We'll take our next question from Michael Cherney at Bank of America.
Thanks so much for taking the question. Maybe if I can follow up a bit there. Obviously, a lot of moving pieces, both within your control and without. Can you maybe just give us some sense on risk weighting the various components as you build that back half ramp? I, I know you've been adamant about the ramp over the course of the year. It seems like relative to at least where consensus is that the four, three to 4Q jump off is a little steeper. Curious how we think about where you have the highest degree of visibility, where you think there's still items that are out of your control that you're waiting to make sure come through, especially maybe on PPE pricing, for one.
Sure, yeah. I think the clearest line of visibility is in our Operating Model Realignment savings. You know, like I said, those are, those are completely locked in. You know, I think there's a high level of confidence also in the seasonality and just the continued strong performance across all the segments in Patient Direct, where I believe we continue to win business and continue to drive, generate operating leverage in that business. You know, I think in our Medical Distribution business, we continue to have momentum with growth, so, you know, higher level of confidence there.
I think I was trying to be clear that, you know, the one area that's still difficult to, to put, you know, an exact pin on it is, you know, when does destocking, and, and when I say destocking, not just at a customer, but at, at our- at other distributors that sell our product. They bought a tremendous amount of ours as well as other products in the market, and, and that flushing through. You know, that's the one variable that, again, we don't have complete control over, as well as, you know, you know, 100% visibility on. Weighting them, that's the one I would put as the risk factor. The other four or so, you know, pretty, you know, very high level of confidence in them.
I guess on that last risk factor, sorry to harp just on the most negative part, but how do you think about the proof points you're looking for? Just because no one could have predicted the pandemic, no could have predicted the rollercoaster that we've seen on demand on PPE. You went out of your way to service your customers incredibly well in terms of delivering what was needed. We've all been wondering to figure out when are we gonna get to the new normal and what that is. Especially with your look into not just your direct customers, but also the distribution side, what are the proof points you're looking for to call success, call victory there?
Yeah. The proof points we're looking at is comparison back to 2019 demand. That was kind of the, call that a steady state program. You know, then within our existing customers, you know, we're starting to see some customers that we know that, again, customers where we distribute to them and they use our products, we're, we're measuring those customers, and we're starting to see some of those customers back to pre-COVID levels of ordering. That's telling us that they've burned through that level of inventory. Then the other side is really taking a hard look at tracings to other distributors as of what they're doing. Those are some of the key factors.
Again, we have seen improvement month-over-month, you know, but, you know, to get it overall back to the, the, the improvements have fluctuated from month to month. They haven't been at a steady state, I'll put it that way.
Thank you.
We'll take our next question from AJ Rice at Credit Suisse.
Hey, thank you. I t's Jonathan Young on for AJ here. I guess if we think about the range of your EBITDA guidance, and obviously, the big risk factor is the destocking component, I guess, how much more does it need to improve for you to come to the midpoint? Then, you know, at the bottom end of the range, what, what is kind of assumed there in terms of what happens on the destocking trend? Is it, you know, similar to what you're experiencing now, or is there some improvement? Just trying to get a flavor of the risk factor of, you know, from the bottom and top end of that EBITDA guidance.
Sure. From a risk factor standpoint, here's the way I would summarize it: a significant majority of our EBITDA for this year is coming out of the Patient Direct segment. You know, if you look at the first and second quarter of the adjusted EBITDA generated in our Patient Direct segment and expect a ramp in the back half of the year, that's where the bulk of that EBITDA is gonna be coming from for the full year. You know, you can think about just the small amount of the Operating Model that's been in the first quarter and then this first and second quarter, with the bulk of that coming in the third and fourth quarter.
That'll hit more in the Patient Direct- I'm sorry, Products & Healthcare Services side. Look, from a risk factor on that, we've got. It is heavily weighted, you know, significantly weighted towards Patient Direct with, you know, the bulk of the stuff in Products & Healthcare Services coming from some seasonality, but the true benefit of the Operating Model Realignment. I guess the short answer to de-risk it is, you know, there's little of it coming from the Products & Healthcare Services in the back half of the year, compared to what's coming from the other parts of the business.
Sure.
I would say just to.
Then, yeah, go.
Sorry, I was gonna say, just to a lesser extent, we do think that, you know, LIFO and stock comp will be factors in terms of where we land within that range.
Okay, that's helpful. Then you, you mentioned that, you know, some customers are, are, are improving their purchasing patterns. I guess from. It sounds like they're burning through, but what about the distributors side? Do you have any sense of how much perhaps excess inventory they have? Then are they, are they, you know, purchasing other competitor products or, you know, kind of how, how is that trend looking, and how much, how much months stock do they all have on hand relative to what you would normally think that they would need? Thanks.
Yeah, I, I think, you know, that's tough because getting that data is, is difficult, you know. We, we believe that, you know, look, we, we look at ourselves as a proxy, and we know we've done a really good job in the last quarter of taking inventory down, which turned around and helped us generate tremendous cash flow for the quarter. We know that, you know, we believe that if we're using ourselves as a proxy, we know we're thinking they have similar. We've probably been more highly focused on moving our inventory out, specifically our products, to get it to turn.
You know, the short answer here is, you know, we don't have direct visibility to, but we can, by proxy, look at what we have and believe that across the board, whether it's the four, five, or six distributors that, you know, are key distributors to us, we believe they have similar, if not more than what we would have in stock.
Okay, thanks.
We'll go to John Stansel at J.P. Morgan.
Good morning. This is John on for Lisa. Just a question going back to some of the commentary around some sourcing on demand management. Sounds like you're having positive impacts already, as you said, but you know, you have adjusted the commodity price assumptions in the guidance from kind of stable to improving, just to stable. Is there anything more than just, like, added visibility on kind of the input side that's, that's changed for you through the quarter or, or kind of what's, what's driving your, your cost outlook for the back half? Thank you.
Yeah, thanks, John. Obviously, in our products division in particular, we keep a very close eye on commodities and how they impact things. I would say that, you know, the update here was just based on a broad look across trends and, you know, I think a judgment that it's probably more stable than stable to improving.
Okay, great. Just I know we had some discussion last quarter around home respiratory potentially being a little below kind of the average within Patient Direct. How'd that trend during the quarter? I guess, are you seeing any changes in patterns there?
At a high level, in the Patient Direct business, you know, again, just can't be more pleased that we had double-digit growth overall in that segment. That's coming off of some pretty tough comps, so we had double-digit growth on a pro forma basis last year in that segment. The one category coming off of COVID, it's home respiratory, that, that is still not growing at the rate we want it to. It has improved sequentially, quarter-over-quarter. The other aspect of what we have with the home respiratory is with the Philips recall on our, on, on NIVs and other home respiratory products, you know, it has caused us to actually have to spend more capital to get new machines that are, that are qualified.
The long-term benefit of that is, though, you know, we're comfortable that Philips over time is going to get it fixed. When we get it fixed, we're going to have... You know, we're not going to need to spend the capital because those machines will all be refurbished and ready to go. You know, so I, I guess in, in the home respiratory, it's still not where we want it to be. It is improving as the year has progressed, but again, we've got to look at the other aspects of it, where across all of our categories, our two major ones being diabetes and CPAP, both of them growing in the, in the double-digit range. Overall, the total segment growing in double digits, and across the board, whether it's ostomy, incontinence, you know, wound care, urology, all those categories continuing to do extremely well in the marketplace.
Great. Appreciate the color.
We'll go next to Daniel Grosslight at Citi.
Hi, thanks for taking the question. I want to go back to what's the I guess the topic of the day or maybe topic of the year, the the PPE stocking. Earlier this year, I think you mentioned around, in your conversations with health systems, around a third of hospitals were working through their inventories, a third still had access, and a third have about a year's worth of stock. I wonder if there's been any change to that, and if there's any way to kind of quantify your conversations with hospitals and their PPE stocks right now?
Yeah. All, all I would say is, based on the conversations as well as some of the data we looked at, that has gotten slightly better. Again, we've seen that get slightly better from Q1 to Q2, you know, it's just it's that second bucket, those last two-thirds, you know, that, you know, they have excess stock that's less than a year and up, up to a year on the other side of it. Those are the ones that it's slow for those to come down. Again, that's just one component of it. That's just what hospitals have. We've seen that improve. We also have to factor in also, we've got other channels to the market of our product where, you know, those other channels have excess stock.
That's another one that's tough to get your arms around as you, as you look at different data, like sales tracings, to try to get to where you need to get to on that.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Then on the core distribution ex PPE, it seems like that's trending nicely around 10% year-over-year growth this year versus mid-single digit last quarter. Just curious what's causing that acceleration in same-store sales growth?
Yeah. I think it's a couple of things. I think it's the great service. You know, I was actually out with a customer yesterday, where we're running just raw fill rates, you know, north between 98% and 99%, so some of the industry-leading raw fill rates. Again, that's no noise. It's what they order. They get what they want when they want, you know, that's one of the things that's driven it. I think the other aspect of it, you know, has been some of the new win implementations that are starting to take place, then just better execution in the field. I think those are three of the major factors that are driving that strong performance in the Medical Distribution division.
Got it. Thanks for the color.
We'll go next to Eric Coldwell at Baird.
Thanks. The last one touched on my first question, but again, going back to the distribution growth, either the 5% or the 10% ex PPE, it's pretty good, probably better than market trend in hospitals. I was hoping you could parse that out perhaps differently. What component of that growth is new wins versus penetration of existing accounts? Maybe what kind of offset you had from prior period losses, and then if you could sprinkle in some conversation around volumes and pricing outside of PPE, that would be helpful as well.
I think at a high level, Eric, I know we normally haven't, you know, gone into this level of detail, but at a high level, I would think there's a reasonable blend between price and volume. You know, call it roughly half price, half volume from a broad standpoint. You know, again, you know, manufacturers, a lot of times, are setting the price with the hospital. We're passing that on with the cost-plus. You know, it's roughly about half and half, I would say, if we look at our business.
You know, our, again, our, our same-store sales is, you know, again, is, is driving a significant portion of this, which, you know, when we use it as a proxy for the health of our business and the health of the industry, when we see 10% same-store sales, excluding PPE, that tells us we're continuing to expand and gain share, whether that's both through additional services within the customer, you know, as well as, you know, broader portfolio, or, or with, with additional products and penetration of the account. You know, I would say that's partially offset by some trailing losses. You know, that's having, you know, maybe a couple points of, you know, point or so of impact. Then we've got, you know, point or two of impact, the benefits of the new wins that are coming into place right now.
We expect that just to continue with momentum. You're, you're, you're right, Eric, is, you know, really pleased with the way the revenue growth and Medical Distribution sales is going. You know, the flat, you know, the 5% growth, just overall, regardless of all the noise in the system, you know, is, is really a testament to what the commercial team has done, as well as, you know, what we've done from going out and, and driving significant operational improvements relative to what, you know, historically has been there for us and others in the industry.
When you cite additional services, could you give us a, a sense of what you're talking about there? Would that be things like kitting programs, you know, stocking, stocking as a service? I mean, is there any, any kind of additional color that you could provide on the, the additional services opportunities?
Yeah, some of the stuff, like I'll give you an example, is outsourced logistics. You, you may have a device company or another manufacturer that's looking for, you know, the outsourcing logistics and being able to get the product into the hospital. That's one example of where we're seeing growth, is in our outsourced logistics business. That's I just use that as a single example, but that's an example of a service where we're doing that. You know, we've spent tremendous amount of time in our kitting business, since you did raise that. You know, with our leadership in the operations, we've spent tremendous amount of time really looking at how do we eliminate, you know, cost as well as waste in there and improve service.
You know, we've increased now our, our, our service levels to, you know, close to 100% of being able to manufacture and get kits out on time. All that's done right now in the U.S. From a service level, it has the ability to get it to the customers quicker. That's another example of some of the stuff that we're focused on.
Then, if, if I might, what's the, in distribution, just, you know, core, acute care, I guess, as well as, you know, any alternate site comments, but what is the, what is the landscape for the new business environment today? Is the market, i s there churn out there? I mean, we've heard it's stabilizing and there's not as much, but what are you seeing in terms of, RFPs or customers, you know, maybe vetting other vendors? Just big picture on, on, on churn and, and pipeline, expectations.
Yeah. Here's the thing. We've seen, we've, we've seen some big, chunky ones that, that are out right now, you know, where there's opportunity and where we're also in a, a retention position. You know, the good news is, the bulk of our top 10, we renewed for extended periods of time. I think that was critical to us. We are seeing a mix right now in, in some of the large, bulky ones or large ones. Also, you know, I think that we're also, there's also the mid and small-sized customers that are looking for different ways to have a higher level of service, you know, as well as competitive pricing out there. You know, our pipeline is still strong.
You know, we've got a very large pipeline, and if you just think about it, an average, if an average, you know, if an average customer is a three to five-year contract, our pipeline should be, you know, $1 billion+, $2 billion+, you know, at any time as we're looking to look at as we're looking to find opportunities to win business.
Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
There are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the call back over to Ed Pesicka for closing remarks.
I wanna thank everyone for joining us on the call today. You know, the participation of the, of everybody on this call is extremely appreciated, as well as we value the interest in the company. You know, I, I think we've done a really good job sharing the progress that we've made, as well as what we're gonna continue to do in the coming quarters. I look forward to continuing to share that progress in the coming quarters, and also at our Investor Day in December in Boston. Again, thank you for your time and attention today, and look forward to talking to you soon.
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.