Thank you everybody for joining us today. My name is Dylan Becker. I am the Research Analyst here at William Blair that covers Powerfleet. For all the necessary disclosures, you can find those on williamblair.com. We've got Dave Wilson, the CFO of Powerfleet here. He's got a prepared presentation. We'll probably run 20 minutes, give or take, and then wrap up with a handful of questions on Q&A as well. Dave, thanks for joining us today.
Great.
I'll let you take the stage.
Thank you, Dylan. My mic's on?
Yes.
Good afternoon. Great to see everybody. Truly appreciate the interest. So maybe to start off with, with all of these things, it's always helpful to sort of understand why I'm at Powerfleet, 'cause in essence, my time is a proxy for your money, and whereas you guys all get the benefit of portfolio risk, I solely have concentration risk. I'm not sure if it was Charlie Munger or it was Warren Buffett who said, "It's not how hard you row, it's the boat that you're in." So in terms of why I'm at Powerfleet, I was really looking for an opportunity where there was asymmetric upside versus downside.
I had the joy of being a public company once before, outperformed the sector by 14 x, and while I like to guess that I had an impact there, it was the totality that really made that happen. So I was actively screening for opportunities where there's massive asymmetry. So I will start going through the slides in a minute, but just to give you a taste and a preview, in terms of what drives great opportunity, firstly, it's a terrific market. And I'll spend some time just going through the market that we're in and some compelling proof points in terms of if there's one market you wanna be in, this one will be high up on your list. So that is key, that is critical. The other one is a strategy that enables you to get more than your fair share in a great market.
So you will hear me say Unity a lot. Anyone who's been around Powerfleet for the last two years will hear the word Unity a lot. That ties into the third one, which is terrific leadership. So the reason I'm here today is because of Steve Towe, CEO. He joined January of 2022. I joined January of 2023, so it's been a hectic 18 months, a huge amount of positive change, the most recent of which was a transaction that we closed with MiX Telematics, that more than doubled the size of the business. That closed April 2nd. The key reason we were able to get that deal done was the Unity platform, which is a SaaS platform that is highly differentiated in the market, and we'll walk through that in great detail as well.
in addition to that, the product strategy, Steve also brought with him experience in terms of successful, highly accretive M&A in private equity background. So he's done five tours of duty with blue-chip private equity firms, Goldman, Francisco Partners, among others. And that ability to really turn M&A, not miss a beat in terms of operating performance, and also take a huge amount of cost out of a business, not everybody can do that. But if you bring a team who've done it before, you're well set up for success, so that's important. And then the final one would be a means to have a radical reset in terms of valuation. So with the MiX deal closed, we have everything that we need to become a Rule of 40 SaaS business over the next two years.
As we do that, we're very well positioned to have a re-rate in terms of being an EBITDA multiple company to a revenue multiple company. So we see significant upside in terms of just how the stock can trade over the next eight quarters or so. So that gives you a taste. Let me now dive into the detail. So this is basically Powerfleet in a snapshot. So trailing 12- month for the combined business, $285 million of revenue. 75% of that revenue is recurring software revenue, so a good mix in terms of what's happening there. You can see EBITDA on a trailing twelve-month basis of $40 million. The cost synergies we are on record of achieving over the next 18-24 months is an additional $27 million of cost synergies.
So within the next couple of years, we see EBITDA expanding to north of $70 million. So that positions you very, very well. We are global, so we're across six continents. We're in 120 countries. With the MiX transaction, we picked up a partner network of 130, so we have great global reach that exists there as well. 1.9 million subscribers, think about that as devices that generate revenue. That puts us top five, top six in the world. And then the final one is the enterprise customers that we have. We have a phenomenal set of customers. So as we think about growth, we have massive headroom to grow within our existing customer base, and I'll walk you through Unity, too. Unity really is a blueprint in terms of driving over time, best-in-class net dollar retention.
That's just a great way to grow, but also a highly efficient way to grow. So let's look at the TAM. So the TAM is anywhere up to $100 billion, so a nice sized TAM, growing nicely as well. In terms of what's driving real opportunity there, it is evolving rapidly. So unified operations is an area of focus. So whereas traditional telematics has just been a dot on a map, understanding utilization of assets increasingly, and Samsara is a leader here, that data can be used to solve a whole set of problems, both regulatory problems as well as commercial opportunities. So there is huge value in terms of the data that we track, in terms of using it more broadly in an organization. AI is important. You'll hear AI, I'm sure, a bunch to many people you speak with.
It is enabling businesses to punch above their weight. So in terms of leveraging AI to accelerate the growth of our SaaS platform, that is key. And over time, we can also use AI based on the data set that we have. So because we're one of the top 6 providers in the globe, we have a very deep level of data we can train AI models on. So we'll be able to do that over time as well. Probably the most compelling area of differentiation is device agnosticity, if that is a word. So if you think about organizations today, people who run fleets, the vast majority of their data is sharded. So they will typically have five, 6 + telematics providers within their fleet.
That basically means when they're trying to run an operation, they have to go through five or six portals to pull that together. That is a massive source of inefficiency. That is an acute pain point, and as we build out Unity, which I'll walk you through in a second, it's a device-agnostic platform. So we're looking to ingest data from any device, even those we did not install, harmonize it, and present it holistically. There is very clear signal from the market that as a compelling point of differentiation. So Unity, as a blueprint in terms of net dollar retention, so as I said earlier, this data can be used more broadly than traditional telematics data. Samsara has proven that point, and it's grown, grown very nicely on the back of doing that.
We, too, are building out a catalog of integrations, so we can take the data that we capture and enable broad swaths of the organization to use it, increasingly people at the C-suite, to use that to solve a broader problem set. And as you do that, as you solve these problems, we get to participate in terms of our share of the economic rent. So it is a driver in terms of more value per device. AI, we discussed earlier, that's both in terms of harmonizing the data and in the future, in terms of solving a sort of a deeper, more complex problem set, well-positioned there. Then the final one is what I said earlier, in terms of being device agnostic.
So if you think about share of wallet, to the extent you can drive volume by monetizing both the devices you yourself have installed, as, in addition to third-party devices, that drives more volume from a share-of-wallet standpoint. And then in terms of unified operations and AI, as you're solving a more complex data set, more complex set of problems, you also get to drive more in terms of value. So you're driving both the volume, the value. A multiplied by B gets you more than A plus B. So in terms of having the right strategy in place to be a rule of 120 net dollar retention, which is best in class, we have everything that we need to build out Unity to get to that level of performance. So this is Unity. I'm not gonna walk you through everything.
It is admittedly a busy slide, but in terms of just how it works, it is an end-to-end IoT data highway. So on the left, it's about ingesting data. Traditionally, telematics providers have only ingested data for the devices they themselves have installed. We will ingest third-party data, and we get to charge for every data source that we ingest, and we are doing that today. So that is important. It's then about harmonizing that data and presenting it holistically. So as opposed to having everything sharded, you get it through a single pane of glass. That is a massive boost in terms of effectiveness, productivity. If you look at what we cover from a device standpoint, we cover both the warehouse through to the last mile provider. So Powerfleet historically grew up, was very successful in terms of its in-warehouse solution.
So this is devices on, on forklift trucks, safety, also utility, utilization, preemptive maintenance, those types of things. So we go through that. We go through long-haul trucks, through the last mile delivery, through to also car fleets as well. So we have that. So we take all that data, we cover end to end from a supply chain standpoint, and then we monetize that in additional ways. One is through value-added applications, so above and beyond what telematics has previously been used for. The key focus there is regulatory needs. So for example, ESG reporting is increasingly important, and we can sort of bring all the data in, all the carbon footprint of your entire fleet, present it. That would be a good example. And the other one is unified operations.
So it's really taking that data set and feeding it into other systems that you're running today, so you can make smarter decisions, you can make more timely decisions, you can live, and you can learn. So this is unified operations. So three cogs to the engine. The first one is the mobile asset. That's where traditionally telematics is played. So simply about tracking the asset, utilization of the asset. With every asset, there's typically a person, too. So if you think about that, a key point is compliance. So think about OSHA compliance. So actually having that embedded in the system, so if you're gonna jump on a forklift truck and there's a requirement you have to have in terms of additional training, you put that on the screen, you work that straight away. The other one is payroll systems.
So if you're paying per hour or per delivery, you capture all that data as well. Where there is an asset, where there's a person, there's also a business process. Whether that is, supply chain management, in terms of warehouse management, those types of things, we can also feed that data through integrations into additional systems that businesses are using. We're now in a situation with all of these three things where we're solving problems at a C-level. Chief Information Officer, as we go present, and as you value sell, we're very well positioned to solve a broader set of problems than has traditionally been solved by telematics. Again, great share of wallet play, in addition to you make your product very sticky, which obviously works well from a value creation play over time.
So key focus is growing and expanding share of wallet within our existing customers. So this just gives you a sense in terms of the blue-chip nature of the customer set that we have. So this is penetration of the Fortune 500. So as you think about it, the fact that they have sharded data for all of their vehicles, all their devices, to the extent we can solve that problem for them, make them more efficient, make them more effective, that works well. So the joy of this slide is we have a wonderful starting point to expand share of wallet. We have a wonderful starting point to get referenceability from customers that are household names, and as you do that, you can accelerate the flywheel in terms of growth. The next one is continuing to build out the library of integrations.
So, that is the other area of focus. We get to monetize this over time, so we're constantly building this out, and as you build it for customer A, it also works for customer A through Q. So you build it once, you get to monetize it multiple times. So that is, again, pure software revenue, over time, which is a boost in terms of margins. So this is the two-year value creation opportunity. So Steve likes to think about life in two-year cycles. So this is the guidance that we have. So trailing twelve-month revenue of $285 million, EBITDA north of $40 million. You can see EBITDA expanding at a much faster rate next year. So the $60 million cost synergies is a key driver of that.
From a top-line standpoint, you can see growth of 5%-10%, to a long-term target of north of 20%. So think about building a SaaS platform, an enterprise SaaS platform. Two years ago, we had 50 engineers. Actually, 15 months ago, we had 50 engineers. It's tough to build a kick-ass SaaS platform with 50 engineers. In March 31, 2023, we did a deal with Swiss Re, where we picked up 35 data scientists, machine learning engineers, so that increased our capacity to 85. You can do things much more quickly, much more rapidly with 85 engineers than 50. April 2nd of this year, with the MiX merger, we increased our engineering team to about 280-290.
So we now have many more players on the field to really sort of build out the capabilities of Unity, and as we do that, that will be a key driver in terms of revenue growing from 5%-10% over the next couple of years. And as we really build that out, and as Unity becomes that blueprint, that engine for best-in-class net dollar retention, there's every opportunity for this business to grow at north of 20%. So that's what we're focused on. You can see gross margins expanding over time. In terms of the major sources of growth, where growth will be concentrated, it will be ingesting third-party devices, it will be with integrations. That is pure software margin. There's no hardware attached to that, there's no telecommunications attached to that. So that's a driver in terms of margin expansion over time.
Then the key takeaway of this slide is getting to Rule of 40 SaaS performance over the next two years. As we do that, that really opens up the opportunity for a massive re-rate in terms of valuation. So operating leverage, I will race through this one at pace. Revenue, again, as I said earlier, the growth in the future is gonna be dominated by pure software. So that's gonna software revenue, so that's gonna expand margins. So well-positioned there. In terms of go-to-market, we have an opportunity to sell to our existing customers. So that ability to ingest third-party devices to solve a broader problem set, it is way more efficient, way more predictable to sell to an existing customer than land a new customer. So again, that is a source of additional operating leverage. Growth within our current cost base.
So this will be a mind-blowing stat for everybody. G&A, on a trailing 12-month basis for the combined business, is 32 cents of every dollar that we earn. It should be about half of that. A lot of the cost synergies that we're gonna work will come out of there, but we're also gonna get best-in-class, next-generation systems up and running in terms of ERP, billing systems. Both organizations have been guilty of throwing bodies at problems. There's a massive source of efficiency there. We can also mine G&A to invest back into go-to-market. So as we grow the top line, as margins continue to expand, there's not a great need to actually invest more in terms of OpEx.
So we can grow within our current cost base, which basically means that top-line growth, a lot of it's gonna drop down to the bottom line in terms of EBITDA expanding rapidly, and by extension, cash flows expanding rapidly. So why Powerfleet? So back to my earlier point, great market, great strategy. So Samsara is $1 billion growing at 40% per annum. That is a rarefied air to be flying in. That is a testament to the market that we are in. In terms of getting our fair share of that market, we can't do it the me-too strategy to Samsara. So being device-agnostic is a massive competitive wedge. It addresses a pain point that Samsara cannot address. We also have the benefit in terms of being in the warehouse as well as on the road, so that's a highly complementary sale.
Say, for example, you're responsible for regulatory and safety in terms of your entire supply chain, to the extent we cover it sort of end to end, again, that is an important point of differentiation. It's a team that knows how to execute. As I said earlier, Steve always intended to do M&A. Steve knows how, how to sort of drive exceptional execution and take costs out of the business at the same time, and that's what we're focused on doing now, and I have the pleasure of being in the front-row seat in terms of seeing that happen. We are performing exceptionally well, and we're doing it while taking significant costs out of the business. Those aren't two easy things to do at the same time, but we're doing it very well. Then creative deal-making would be another.
So I referred earlier to this Movingdots transaction, where we picked up 35 engineers. We got paid EUR 8 million to pick up 35 kick-ass engineers. That just speaks to the creativity from a deal-making standpoint. That's probably a transaction you do maybe once in a lifetime, once in every 10 years, but again, it just speaks to the creativity. The other one is MiX. So those of you who followed Powerfleet before the merger happened, we had a pretty onerous preferred note on the balance sheet from a private equity firm, Abry, out of Boston. They were the key financier in terms of Powerfleet coming into being. So Powerfleet came into being in 2019, a merger between, I.D. Systems in the U.S., Pointer in Israel. That was funded through private equity.
That was a note that was going to be callable within the next sort of 12 months or so. So getting rid of that overhang was key. So by doing the MiX transaction, we basically got to scale up. We got an ability to sort of realize significant cost synergies, an ability to realize revenue synergies, and because MiX had a clean, pretty pristine balance sheet, it was a dividend player, we got to leverage up that balance sheet with bank debt and pay down the Abry note. That was a massive overhang for Powerfleet. So again, just speaks to solving multiple things through single transactions. In terms of downside risk protection, again, $40 million of EBITDA trailing twelve, as we extract synergies, will be north of $70 million of EBITDA. Given where we trade today, that gives you upside.
So from an asymmetry standpoint, even the downside case is a pretty good case, and to the extent we can make a Rule of 40 business over the next two years, the opportunity to re-rate from being an EBITDA multiple to a revenue multiple is tangible, is in sight, and with the MiX transaction, we have everything that we need to make that happen. So here's a scatter graph. This just speaks to, the valuation re-rate view. So on the x-axis, you see Rule of 40 performance. The y-axis, you see revenue multiples. You can see Samsara out there at 14x. I think this is a little bit stale. I think they're probably closer to 16x currently. You can see Powerfleet currently trading at about 2x, revenue.
As we get to Rule of 40 performance over the next two years, you can see from a re-rate standpoint, if we were bottom of the scatter chart, would be sort of 5x revenue, Power would be 9x revenue. And if we have a path to demonstrate we can be a net dollar retention business of 20%, there's opportunities to be trading well above 9x revenue. So as you think about how to invest money, the reason I'm here is that asymmetry. So there's downside protection, there's massive upside opportunity. That is all the organic proposition. That is compelling by itself. But there's one more thing that we have up our sleeve, which is not only is Unity a great play in terms of organic growth, but it can also be an engine for inorganic growth.
So if you look at the market, so Samsara is the biggest player in the market today. It is $1 billion. It is less than 2% of the market. It is highly fragmented. This is a business which grew up on the back of the rollout of 2G and 3G in the late nineties, early 2000s. There's a lot of businesses there that have built up a nice annuity stream, but they are founder-led, and their best days are behind them. In part, Samsara is growing at this rate because it's growing at the expense of some of the legacy players.
So it is definitely a sort of a two-tiered market, and in terms of it being a buyer's market, these will be founders who are smart, because you don't build businesses of scale if you're not smart, who will realize it's better for them to monetize now than hang around for later. That becomes a buyer's market. Unity itself, because we are device-agnostic, in essence, we get to ingest the data from the existing telematics units that have been installed by the company we would acquire. So no disruption from a customer standpoint. And as you ingest that data, you immediately open up the opportunity for revenue synergies. 'Cause we have a richer set of solutions, we have the integrations. So if you look at that right-hand side, there's no disruption.
You de-risk the whole M&A transaction in terms of getting customers to a great point, and you can also upsell them with minimal hurdles, minimal obstacles. So you get to time to revenue synergy, revenue acceleration is quick. Then the final one is EBITDA expansion. So great M&A, not missing a beat operationally, taking out cost synergies. That is a core competency that we have. Everyone says they can do it, but most M&A fails 'cause people really don't know how to do it. This is something that we have to our core ability to go execute that with people who've been there, seen it, done it. So that serves us well, too. So to wrap, in terms of vectors for shareholder value, one is immediate. Some of them have already happened, so one is just trading fundamentals.
We were a poor, thinly traded stock, super expensive to get in and out. We're now trading close to 1 million shares per day, so there's now liquidity in the stock. That is a huge benefit. We will be in the Russell 2000 come June 28th, so it's already announced that we are part of that index. Again, that brings more marginal demand, which is helpful. And then cost synergies. Every 90 days, we will report out in terms of expanding EBITDA from $40 million-$70 million. As we start realizing those cost synergies, you'll see that flow through. And then the near term is that acceleration in growth, so going from 5%-10% with line of sight to getting to 120% from a net dollar retention standpoint.
So we'll be able to start reporting that out, and that allows you to re-rate from a value standpoint from being an EBITDA multiple to a revenue multiple. And then in the more immediate-medium term, as we digest, as we get the feet under us from the MiX transaction, there's opportunities for additional M&A. Again, de-risked, team that knows how to do it, an additional source of incremental value above and beyond what is already a compelling organic growth case. So that was a lot. Hopefully it all made sense, but I will hand it over to Dylan, who I'm sure will ask me a couple of questions.
Yeah. Thank you, David. Appreciate it. And maybe as a place to start with everything that you had just run through as well, what was the impetus? Obviously, there's a lot of value here, but of the MiX transaction, combining over-the-road, in-warehouse-
Yep
the overlap, the geographic diversification, what does that really unlock from a scale perspective to allow you to actually capitalize on, on some of these initiatives as well?
Yeah. So what I would say is the intent was always to do inorganic growth-
Mm
On our side. If you look at MiX, those of you who have followed MiX, the intent from MiX was always to bulk up and get a larger presence in terms of North America. So there was a desire from both sides to do a deal. It's also very clear that scale is absolutely critical to have a long-term play in this market, so there was that impetus as well. But the only reason this deal happened. There's two reasons it happened: firstly, Joss, who was the founder of MiX, founded it in sort of late 1990s, he knew in his core when he saw Unity, that that was the future of his industry. So that hook was set very deeply in terms of him understanding that's the road that he needed to be on.
The other one was, if he didn't believe that Steve knew how to do the integration, execute well, take good care of his team, the deal never would have happened, too. So the industrial logic is massive, both from their side to our side, and in terms of having confidence that it was the right strategy and the right team to make it happen. That's how the deal happened.
And you touched on the significant opportunity ahead, too. I think it was close to 240 million connected vehicles-
Yep.
- $100 billion in TAM. Where do we sit today relative to that from a device perspective? And you touched on the fragmented nature of that ecosystem-
Yeah
Kind of the differentiation-
Sure
of Unity, right? Because third-party approach is much different than owning the device and owning the team.
Yep. Yeah. So in terms of the industry itself, you know, to your point, there's no, there's no dominant player in the industry. And again, that just speaks to, as you bring a next-generation platform to bear, you can grow very nicely, and obviously, Samsara has definitely proven that in terms of what it's been able to do. So. Sorry, repeat the question. I got distracted.
On, again, the value proposition of kinda heterogeneity of-
Right
of fleets and-
Yep
and the connected device with Unity.
Got it. So in terms of any organization you look at, decisions have been taken deep from the organization, and there's a bunch of fiefdoms that get to choose what they want to do. And that worked well when it was just a small regional player or regional part of the organization just tracking their discrete operation. As regulatory hurdles have increased, as things like ESG have come on board, there is now a need to sort of manage that at a higher level, and also, as the data capabilities have grown, as technology has evolved, that ability to sort of bring everything together and be a lot smarter about how you do it, that is also key as well. So if you today are trying to solve those problems, if you have five different providers, you have basically five portals you need to work your way through.
That is a massive pain point. To the extent you can ingest data, no matter the device, present it holistically, in essence, you take away that pain, and you can move apace, and you can operate much more effectively.
I would think, given the context around kind of trending net dollar retention towards 100-
Yep
and 20%, there's a lot of expansion opportunity built off of the Unity platform.
Yes.
Right? And it's not just fuel efficiency or maybe initial kinda telematics-
Yep
use cases that people are gonna be highly familiar with. But think about regulatory reporting-
Yep
compliance from a direct—like, how do you think about the platform evolution of where Unity can go over time? Because Rule of 40, from a profitability angle and 120 net dollar retention implies that there's potential for upside beyond that as well, too.
Yeah, yeah. So in terms of where you can go, there's the industry's changed so much, right? So again, the idea that there are regulatory requirements that now sort of are a superset of what existed before, if you look at how Samsara has grown, regulatory solutions have been a major part of their growth.
Mm-hmm.
So that basically means that somebody who is much higher up in the organization owns that. So as you start solving problems for multiple players at the C-suite, that puts you in a situation where you become increasingly sticky. And to the extent having all this data in discrete pockets is an acute pain point, and you're solving that, that sort of basically allows you to do it in a way that is highly differentiated versus the market. So that's the focus. Obviously, solving it for multiple devices is less straightforward than solving it for a single device.
Sure.
So there's that piece of it, but in terms of where the market is today, in terms of the forces behind the market, I think the center of gravity is always towards heterogeneous-
Mm-hmm
as opposed to homogeneous.
Sure.
If you think about OEM data becoming increasingly important, increasingly powerful over time, being able to ingest that, as you think about expanding above and beyond just devices with wheels, I mean, at a certain point-
Mm-hmm
you can go beyond that as well, which opens up a much larger TAM.
Sure.
That ability to ingest data, no matter the device, no matter the source, harmonize it, present it, that is a commonality that goes across industries above and beyond telematics.
Sure. As a function of this as well, too, there's a lot of sufficient cost synergies associated with the transaction.
Yep.
I guess, how did you think about realizing or recognizing where those synergies are gonna come from? Obviously, there's some duplicative costs.
Yep. Mm-hmm.
But thinking about the leverage just naturally embedded in streamlining those two operations-
Yep
as well?
So there's always the obvious ones, right? So two public companies, you get rid of that. Two CFOs, you get rid of that. So there's some dollar savings you get right off the bat. The other thing is you have to get the whole organization believing in where you are headed, because if you don't get the institutional buy-in, you create a whole lot of cultural problems as well. So to do this successfully, you have to take out both costs. Anyone can take out costs. It's taking out costs, but also not missing a beat operationally, that is key, that is important. And then in terms of the team that Steve brought in, they brought in a playbook. So spans and layers would be an example. So you just sort of go rationalize that.
If you look at the geography of what we have, two businesses in Brazil, you get to combine those at scale. We had a small business in South Africa, we get to combine that. So both in terms of the playbook, but also just the footprint the organizations had together, there was a huge opportunity there to rationalize as well. But the most important thing is to go execute. The other thing that is a driver is getting the right systems in place, and that is something that we're absolutely focused on, and that is virtuous in many ways. Firstly, you get to reduce costs. Great. Secondly, you get cleaner, more timely information to run the business. And finally, I get to build out a set of metrics I can start reporting publicly.
The one that I'm desperate we ought to report is net dollar retention, 'cause as we show that sort of stepping up towards 120, that will be a massive catalyst in terms of value creation.
I mean, it seems like there's kind of this phase I of the integration of the two assets-
Yep
That really unlocks a lot of enablement.
Yep
as we think about the progression, and I'm assuming that's kind of how the multi-year build was kind of framed. But is that the right way of kinda thinking about the-
Yeah
evolution of what's ahead?
It is, and there's the cost synergies, but there's also, which isn't necessarily a cost synergy, but it's the operating leverage, too, which is, as I said about that, G&A as a percentage of revenue. We get to reduce total costs, but as part of that, we'll also be cutting G&A and reinvesting into go-to-market.
Sure.
Which is a driver in terms of accelerating revenue growth, but doing it in a way where the top line growth and gross margin largely drops to the bottom line, and that's another focus that we have.
Sure. Of course. I think we are pretty much up at time here, David.
Great.
Thank you. Appreciate the time. Great presentation. For those interested in, in carrying on the conversation, we will move to Burnham B, for the breakout for any follow-ups.
Great.
Thank you.
Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.