Our next presenter is Arthur J. Gallagher, and we have the CEO, Patrick Gallagher, and I see the CFO sitting here, too, Doug Howell. It's fairly interesting, we realized, I don't think since 1997, since I've been doing this conference, they haven't missed one. I think also, too, we were talking in the hallway, something more interesting is that most of the senior management has been with the firm for more than 35 years, except for Doug, who's a baby at almost 10 years. I think that it's a good testament to the stability, the culture of the company. They've been through a lot together.
I think it's given them a unique opportunity to just to be distinct in the industry through the people that they've been with for a long time and also through the acquisitions they've made, which is hundreds over the past 20 years. Anyway, I'll turn the podium over to Patrick and let him talk about it.
Thank you, Allison, and I want to thank Merrill Lynch, Allison, and Jay for the invitation. This is a conference that we look forward to and one that we're proud to be invited to present at. As we get started here, and I think probably all the presenters are doing this, it's very likely that I'll have some forward-looking statements, and there's absolutely no guarantee that any of them will come true. Also, in regard to trying to give you some helpful information, you'll notice that a lot of the presentation does refer to non-GAAP measures, and you can reconcile back to GAAP at our website, ajg.com. I think everybody in this room knows what Arthur J. Gallagher & Company does, but I think it's always good to start with the baseline.
We're a brokerage operation that arranges insurance and sell insurance as well as benefits and consult on insurance matters in retail, P&C benefits, and wholesale. That's about 73% of our total corporate revenue. Our risk management segment is a claims-paying organization. We adjust claims and help companies reduce their losses. In the U.S., it's primarily workers' compensation, but also liability, managed care, and property. We do a modest amount of storm work. This primarily relates to the New Zealand Earthquake Commission, who we've been helping for the last number of years on the Christchurch earthquake. If you take a look at our brokerage segment, and this whole presentation is about why I think we're going to continue to grow this business.
Allison said we've been doing this presentation now for well over 15 years. Every year I get in front of the same crowd, many of you who I've seen many times, and talk about why I believe this business will grow short-term and long-term. When you take a look at our brokerage segment, you'll see, first of all, about 53% of what we do is retail, about 22% is wholesale, and about 25% is benefits. Plenty of room in every one of those sectors to grow the business. We have no market share in any of those. About 81% is domestic. I'll show you a slide later that shows you how much opportunity we have to grow that. Our international operations have been growing nicely over the last five years. Our risk management segment is comprised, again, mostly of workers' compensation here in the United States.
We adjust property and liability claims. 78% is domestic. We have sizable operations in this business in the U.K. and Australia. As I said, we support the New Zealand Earthquake Commission. 2011 was a fantastic year. When we started 2011, frankly, at this conference, one of the things we talked about was the fact that the headwinds, which I will touch on in a moment, were still very, very strong. As we finished the first quarter, I said in my first quarter conference call that I felt things might just be getting a little better, where the financial crisis had taken a toll on us and our competitors, as well as the many other industries, but it just seemed to feel like it was getting better. As we finished the second and third quarter, I once again reiterated, I thought that our business was gaining some momentum.
Those of you that follow the company know we had a great fourth quarter. We finished the year up 18% in revenue, up 18% in EBITDAC. We actually expanded our margin slightly. On the risk management side, we were up 19%, cracked through the half a billion mark. Our EBITDAC was up 22%, and we held margins at or around our target margin, which is 15%-16%. This is how we look at the business. We combine our operating divisions. For the first time in our history, we broke through the $2 billion mark. Now, that to us is a big deal, okay? In 2002, our 75th anniversary, we did our first billion dollars. It took us nine years to get the second billion, and trust me, it will not take us that long to get our third.
We broke through the $420 million EBITDAC number for the first time. When I started with the company in 1974 full-time, we did not have 438 employees. We maintained a margin of just over 20%. At the same time, we've maintained our prudent balance sheet. Don't have an extra amount of debt, nicely under two times EBITDAC, 30 net debt to total cap. During the year, we successfully executed the creation of 15 additional clean energy plants. We now have 29 of those. The guidance we've given so far is that they should produce something on the order of $16.5 million of net after-tax profit per quarter. Over the same period of time of being a public company, our average increase in dividend has been 16%. Our board indicated an increase again this past board meeting.
We now are on track to pay $1.36 and are proud of the fact that we have one of the highest yields in the brokerage space. This track record shows you a history of a company that believes in sharing our success with our owners as we wait for this long cycle business to change from time to time. How have our shareholders done in 2011? Those people that were believers, that stayed with us, and what have you, I think were very well rewarded with a total shareholder return of 27% for the year. You're all very familiar with the fact that we've been facing headwinds. I want to touch on those a bit to sort of frame how I think we've done over the last three years. If you take a look at the economy, GDP shrunk substantially from 2008 to 2009.
Some of that growth has come back, but we're back basically back to 2000 levels. Job growth, job fall, I should say. We're seeing a little bit of recovery in jobs, but remember, all of insurance is predicated on exposure units. It's the payrolls, it's the sales, it's the number of automobiles, the dollar value of your property. When that's falling off the table, when we're going from three shifts to two shifts to one shift, when people aren't spending money, aren't expanding, it comes right off the commission income line. This is a huge, huge headwind. People don't focus on this on the brokerage side. We talk about this on the carrier side all the time, but short-term interest rates used to be a boon for us. Back in 2006, 2007, we made $20 million on the float.
We collect our clients' money, hold that money at interest, and pay it to insurance companies. We make no investment income at this point in time. Last but not least, anybody who follows insurance is very familiar with this curve. What this curve is the Council of Insurance Agents & Brokers pricing survey going all the way back to the fourth quarter of 2000. You see that pricing in the P&C world jumped almost 50% from 2000 to 2003, 2004. Starting in the fourth quarter of 2004 and continuing on until just recently, we've had rate declines every quarter, every year, and that's an incredible headwind. Let me give you an example.
If I've got a client that's $100 million in sales and their sales dropped, just for sake of discussion, from 100 million to 50 million in the 2008 to 2010 year, our commission was halved at the earlier rates. Reduce the rates by 20% or 15% and you get another whammy. You can have, in unit talk, 100 units reduced to 50 units, reduced to 40 units, and it can happen really quickly. Growing beyond that is not easy. Just in the last few quarters of the last few years, you'll see that for the first time, the rate environment does appear to be moderating. This is an important slide for two reasons. Yes, we had headwinds and what have you, but also in the fourth quarter, the CIAB survey, and this did in fact, it was what we saw.
Rates appeared to be moving up about 2.8% on average. That was about 3% for small accounts, or 3.2% for small accounts, something on the order of 3% for medium accounts, and less than that for large accounts, averaging out at about 2.8%. You'll see later in the presentation why that could be pretty darn important for Gallagher. Written premiums during that period of time dropped. I can't think back in my career when written premiums dropped three years in a row. For the first time, 2010, 2011, beginning to show, once again, some positive signs. I think that's a proxy of two things. That's a proxy for rates not falling as they were, and it's a proxy for the economy improving ever so slightly. How did Gallagher do during the Great Recession? I couldn't be prouder of this.
You know, it's easy to look at a company with an Excel spreadsheet and a model in front of you. It ain't that easy to make it happen. Our team excelled during this period of time, and it was tough. Clients' businesses were faltering. Our job is to help our clients. Our job is to help their businesses succeed, and they were having a real struggle. Our brokerage unit was up 10% on a compound annual average in revenue, up 15% in EBITDAC, and our margin during this period of time actually improved over three points. On the risk management side, a similar story, and this is in the face of declining claim counts. Revenue up 6% on average, EBITDAC up 14%. We break through $80 million of EBITDAC, and again, margin improvement of just over three points. That is incredible work.
When I look at them on a combined basis, again, it all comes back down to the colleagues that I'm lucky enough to work with. These people hunkered down, stayed focused. We didn't change our strategy. It's the same strategy we've told you about at this conference for over a decade, and it's working. Over that period of time, how did our shareholders do? They gained a total shareholder return of 79% against an S&P return of zero. I'm incredibly proud of that. The question, obviously, everyone has to ask is, well, that's fine. Now you're $2 billion. You got a management team that's been around. How are you going to keep growing this thing? In essence, we focus on four things that you might call our strategic pillars for growth. The first one, I'll go around the puzzle here, is organic growth.
Every person, every division, everywhere in the world gets up every day and focuses on two things: keep the clients we've got, help them grow their business, and add new clients. Everybody understands nothing happens till somebody rings the cash register. The second thing we want to do is buy the best independent brokers in the world and bring them onto our platform as part of our team. Strengthen the niches we're focused on. Strengthen where we are geographically. You could take a small city like Minneapolis. We sent a 37, 38-year-old gentleman up there just three years ago to help us in a place that really wasn't all that strong. Found two or three great acquisitions that we put together. Today, we're one of the strongest property casualty benefits brokers in the city of Minneapolis, with great clients and great partnerships.
That's what we want to do, is grow through acquisitions. Thirdly, very important, and I'm very proud of what we've done here, we focus on productivity and quality. Quite frankly, our errors and omissions or professional liability claims, just a few years ago, they were too high. We had to focus on quality. That was waste in our system. Very proud of our margin expansion, which we did through operating expenses and not on the backs of our people. Lastly, we believe and we know we have a very unique culture that we work hard every day as a management team to maintain. I'll go around the puzzle pieces with you. This is indicative of the sales culture that I talk about repeatedly. What this graph shows in the red line is basically the CIAB survey and what happened with rates.
You see in 2003, rates were up 8%. We had organic growth of 10%. Rates fell 4%, our organic growth was 2%. Rates fell 5.2%, our organic growth was 5%. In every single measured time, our organic growth outstripped the decline in rates measured by the CIAB. How we do that is real simple. First and foremost, we grow our own. We will have 150 to 200 interns in our internship program this coming summer. I'm an intern. Jim Galt, who runs our brokerage retail operation globally, was an intern. We know how to bring young people in, introduce them to this incredibly exciting business, which we believe is the best business on Earth, bring them aboard, help them be successful, and help them build a career. We're always looking to hire experienced people from our competitors. We're a great place to work.
We've built a platform of capabilities that's virtually second to none, especially where we focus on the niches that we know we're so good at. We fear no one in construction, real estate, religious and not-for-profit, public sector, D&O, and I could go through about 30 of those things. Higher education. We feel we can compete with anyone globally anytime on the areas that we focus our niches, and that's where we've got capabilities that are second to none. We provide these people with management tools and with training. We help them be successful. You'll see later in the presentation where we've invested our money in technology, virtually all of it to make it so that it's easier for our production force to do their job, hang on to your clients, service those clients, and add new ones to the mix.
We've worked hard with our carrier partners on the proper remuneration, supplementals, contingents, as well as base commissions, we've done this virtually domestically and internationally, that is in fact what leads to organic growth. Let me give you an illustration of how organic growth works, just simply. This illustration, the blue box, is a $1 million branch. This, interestingly enough, holds true whether the branch is $1 million, $5 million, $10 million. It will typically grow, this is the green box, it will typically grow 10%. Unfortunately, we will lose 5%. Some of that loss will be because clients took competition and we lost. Others will be revenue that's not intended to recur. If the economy takes 4% away from us and if rates go down 4%, we're going to have 3% negative organic.
Pull out our press release from the end of 2010. This is exactly what it looks like. We had negative organic in 10, nine, and eight. I'd never seen that in my career before. A small moderation in what the market's doing and what the economy is doing makes a big difference. In this illustration, we grew our 10%, we lost our 5%. 2.5% came out from rate and 2.5% came out from exposure units. Our organic growth will be flat. Look what happens with just a little bit of tailwind. We don't need the economy to grow at four and 5%. Look what happens in that same scenario if, in fact, we get 2% rate, which is what the market is saying, two to four to five right now. We're not seeing four and five, but we are seeing twos and threes.
What if the economy does recover and add just 2% exposure unit? This company would be up 9% organic in this scenario. I'm not sitting here predicting or promising 9% organic. This is illustrative. I don't want you to go back and plug in a bunch of models and say, "Pat Gallagher told us to expect nine." I'm very, very proud of the fourth quarter 5.2, which by the way, fit this model almost to the T. We basically had flat rates, we basically had flat economy. We developed about 5.2 organic. Look at the leverage in this business. The natural question that emanates from this is, okay, what happens to your margin? We've been very clear with our investors. The first three points of any organic growth, don't expect a lot of margin improvement. We are investing in our business.
If you did in fact get 9% organic growth, the 6% excess of the three should drop 60% of the bottom line. Second puzzle piece in growth, mergers and acquisitions. I couldn't be more excited about this. This is a core competence for the company. Our merger and acquisitions last year, record year, $277 million of purchased revenue. Our largest deal ever, the Heath acquisition, which was an international acquisition. Great domestic acquisitions as well. We've been doing this now for 26 years, picking up momentum internationally, being more successful with our international opportunities. We now trade in Canada. We trade in the Caribbean. We trade in Brazil, Singapore, Australia. We're building out a global platform. It's working extremely well. There's two acquisitions that I think we ought to talk about specifically, just to give you an update on them.
One was GAB Robins, which we purchased in October of 2010. We paid basically $9 million for what turns out to be about. We paid $24 million for what turns out to be about $9 million in EBITDA. It's not easy to integrate a claims organization. Our team did a phenomenal job. Think about scrubbing data, moving accounts, closing offices, keeping adjusters paying claims, maintaining the accounts. We told you what to expect in terms of integration costs. We hit that almost on the dollar. There will be no more integration costs this year. We're renewing that book of business at the same level as Gallagher Bassett's ongoing book of business. A great success story. Heath is a little bit too early to tell. Looks really good to us now. Those people were excited to join Gallagher.
The thing I'm excited about this is twofold: we get another strong, powerful group of people in London, but we also now have a platform across the U.K. to do in the U.K. what we've successfully done in the U.S. for the last 26 years. This gives us a platform to attract producers, hire interns, and do acquisitions. This could turn out to be one of our best deals ever. It's a busy slide, but it's an important slide, so please bear with me as I go through it. I believe an important part of our growth story has and will be acquisitions. You have to ask yourself a couple questions about, can they keep it going? What's the opportunity? What's out there? On the left-hand part of the slide, we talk about a vast pipeline. What do we mean about that?
Well, if you take a look across the U.S. alone, according to Hales & Company, there's about 18,000 agents and brokers in America. That is firms, not people. Don't know if that's an accurate number. It's a number that we get from them and we use it. Think about how fragmented that market is. If you want to see this for yourself, when you go home tonight or whenever, pick up the Yellow Pages, flip it open to insurance agents. In New York, it's probably 25 pages single-spaced. It's unbelievable how many people make their living as insurance agents in this world. Now, most of them are baby boomers. I'm 60. The horizon isn't as long as it used to be. We were trying to buy these people 10 years ago when they were 50. Their kids were younger. Their relationships were solid.
They didn't really want to sell. We've been in touch with them for years and years, right? We've talked to them. We've gotten to know each other. That's why we continue to click these off every so many weeks, another closing, another closing. I'll remind you that we're not doing $100 million deals. A lot of two, five, seven, and 10. It's perfect. Doug will say many times in some of our one-on-ones, as the CFO, he'd rather do 10 $5 million deals than one $50 million deal. The price is better, and the risk is spread. Here's a very big key to this whole thing, which is frankly developed in the last few years. Guess what? These folks need our expertise. The market's becoming more sophisticated.
Entrepreneurs understand that the world is riskier, and they need help managing their risk management program, and they want to do it with people that understand their business. That's why our niche focus is important. If you're a small broker in a town, and you can call it Cleveland, you can call it Minneapolis, and you've got a $5 million shop, you have 20 accounts in your book that matter. The rest is flow. You lose five of those 20 accounts and your company could be in trouble. Couple that with it's their largest asset. At some point, they've got to monetize this, and that is a dynamic that when you couple it with the fact that they need expertise to work on those clients, is unbelievable for us. If you move to column two. In 1986, we started doing acquisitions.
We had one bird dog, essentially, and a CFO that priced, and a lawyer that closed. Because we've been doing this for 26 years, and as Allison said, we have actually done hundreds of them, we now have dozens and dozens of people in our organization that are used to this process, have been successful in this process, either came aboard through the process, and we now have multiple divisions doing deals. When you look at 40 some odd deals last year, you think, how could Gallagher possibly integrate that? Well, if I did five in my retail P&C operation or 10, it's not hard to integrate across five regions. If I do five or 10 in my benefits operation, it's not hard to integrate across four regions.
The opportunity to actually expand that activity because of the people that we have are knowledgeable in that area is unbelievable. The third column is important as well. There aren't that many of us. The consolidators are limited. You've got Marsh, Aon, Willis, Gallagher, Brown, Hub, Wells, BB&T. You name the others. There aren't that many. If you look at the far column, the differentiator is you got to have a culture that fits those entrepreneurs that are joining you. Interestingly enough, we don't actually get in that many head-to-head competitions on these acquisitions. The sellers typically know where they want to land as the process continues. It's interesting.
We've got a proven history of being able to close the deals, and we integrate them well. That's our history. The best salespeople for doing an acquisition at Gallagher are the people who joined us through the process. This map shows you where we are in the U.S. Interestingly enough, that doesn't mean we'll stop buying in any of those locales. I mentioned Minneapolis. We bought in Minneapolis. We bought again, and we did three deals in the last two years, and we built one of the most powerful shops in Minneapolis. But these dots are locations with 100,000 people that we're not in. We're going to be there. We want to get there fast. This is the global footprint. As I said, we've now got operations in Canada, in the Caribbean, in Australia, in Singapore, and in the U.K. that have been supported through acquisitions.
About 20% of our business is now outside the U.S., and these other dots are the brokers that we trade with in our Gallagher network. Next area of focus is productivity and quality. We've spent the last 10 years since Doug's joined us focusing on getting better at what we do. We've leveraged sales management tools. We've invested in business intelligence. We're controlling headcount, managing expenses, building out productivity lifts in our branches. All of this investment in systems has essentially gone to two things: making us better at delivering for our clients what we sold, breaking that E&O curve I talked about, and making our salespeople stronger. The sales management tools, salesforce.com, allows us all to help put the best sales resources at the point of sale on every major account everywhere we're trading in the world. And we established significant offshore centers of excellence.
Why did we do that? Well, certainly it was to reduce cost. Primarily, interestingly enough, when we went there to start with, it was to improve quality. We weren't checking our policies properly. It allows our people to focus on the core activities that they do. We take work off of a desk to allow someone who's an insurance professional to talk to our clients. It increases the speed at which we do things and helps foster innovation. Let me give you just a few examples. We've reduced the delivery of our policies from 30 days to 10 days in many of our locations and what have you. Once the policy shows up, it used to take us 30-plus days to get it to a client. We get that down to 10. We've reduced the cost of issuing a certificate by 20%.
We're implementing changes that help our adjusters be more professional. Our quality rates started at 98, today we measure at 99, and we've actually improved the quality of our adjusters in the U.S. by about 20 points since then. These investments have been across all parts of our company. When I look back to 2004, technology at Gallagher meant two things, email and the RiskFact system at Gallagher Bassett. Since 2004, these are the systems that we've put in place in that seven-year period, three years of which was a stressful great recession. Document management, we don't lose files anymore. Planning, we know where our numbers are coming from, we know where they're going. HR payrolls, the Oracle system went in. T&E, we're on Concur. I won't bore you with all of it. We've invested a ton of money. We continue to put systems in across the platform.
What's happened over the past three years is that we've improved margin, both in the brokerage segment and the risk management segment, by a number of points. We never touched our people's payroll. Today, our compensation ratio is 61%, and that's what it was three years ago. During the Great Recession, those that deserved it, those who grew, got raises. We never changed a producer bonus scheme. We pay our producers for what they go and hunt. We're proud of that. We're proud of the fact that this is how we grew margin. Never took our eye off quality. Every one of these awards was given to us by virtue of clients who responded that they thought Gallagher's quality was at a level that was superior to our competition. These are awards and recognition that are global, the U.K., Australia, and the U.S.
The last place we focus in terms of keeping our growth going is on what we know is a unique and very strong corporate culture. We focus on teamwork. It's all about our people. I know the cliché that the inventory goes up and down in the elevator every day. It's true. We're going to spend $45 million on CapEx this year. It's nothing. We have no inventory. We compete every day, this is a competitive business, with our brainpower against our competition's brainpower. It's about the people. It's about getting to work in a team. It's about our core values. It's about a performance-based culture. You don't expect a bonus at Gallagher for hard work. You expect a bonus at Gallagher for executing and growing your business.
I've been in many branches where the question's been asked, "When do we get a raise?" I said, "Well, you're going to get a raise when we grow the operation." That's how it works here. People accept that. It's a performance-driven culture. The question that I always like to end this conference with, and I've done this for 10 years, is why would you invest in Gallagher? Well, if you take a look at the gray line in this thing, and the red line, you'll notice that our return over a decade to shareholders has been 240%. The S&P's been 14. We've got a management team that's solid, stable, been together a long time. Allison alluded to it, the baby. We call Doug the new guy. He's in his ninth year. When do you get to not be the new guy? We've got a culture that's second to none.
Our organic growth, we've got that process working. We are growing organically. Our mergers and acquisitions are accretive and are helping us. We're very focused on product and quality and margin expansion. We've got a strong balance sheet, low debt, great dividend, excellent returns, and I will tell you as I stand here today, this decade I'm proud of. If we don't do better than this in the next decade, I'll be sorely disappointed. Thank you for your time. I'd be more than happy to take any questions. Chris. Got one here. Got one here too. Okay.
Just a quick question. You talked about the organic growth kind of needing to get over that 3% hurdle to really have it drop to the bottom line. Given how tough the last three years have been, is there investment that's been kind of put off where maybe in the first 6 to 12 months, the hurdle's going to be a little higher than 3% in terms of investment that you might have put off, given how tough the environment had been?
No. We've invested all the way along, both in hiring new people, training young people, and systems. I think your question gets at is there an awful lot of pent-up demand? No.
Pat, two questions. You talked about how you hired new people coming in as interns, then from some of your competitors. Are there one or two of your competitors who tend to have more people that you hire than others? Two, on the acquisition side, you ran through six, eight, 10 names of people you run up against every day, every week, who try to buy smaller brokerage firms. Is there anyone out there, would you say, competing irrationally or offering too much money?
No, remember, we compete most of the time across our network in the commercial middle market. If I told you who we compete with in Denver, it would not be the same set of names as who we compete with in Minneapolis. There is no one person that we recruit from more. I will tell you that I think where we recruit most effectively is probably in the smaller regional brokerage firms that don't have our capabilities. The sale is very simple. Join Gallagher. With our capabilities, with our niches, with our systems, you'll make more money. You can stay at the Jones Agency and you'll trade with Travelers, you'll trade with The Hartford, trade with AIG. When you get a chance at a university, who are you going to call, right? It broadens your ability to compete.
That's where we get most of our experienced people. In terms of anybody doing anything irrational, no. The interesting thing about the brokerage business is that it's a steady business. People understand valuations, you don't see anyone It's interesting. When the banks first moved into the brokerage business, in the space, Jay and Allison could tell you about what year that was, they drove multiples up. Well, guess what? They got a bellyache, they're out, the multiples aren't being driven up.
Pat, I've got a couple questions. The first one, Aon, to throw a name out there, talks about their GRIP platform. Marsh has a similar platform. This repository of premium data that they think will add value. You don't talk about it. I'm wondering, one, if you have something similar, or two, if you don't, does it hinder you in competing for business? I know you might go after different markets, but if you can reflect on that.
I think that any time you've got potentially a leg up in terms of something like information, that gives you something more to talk about with clients. I respect what they've done in that regard. As you know, most of what we compete on, not all, but we're very good at risk management accounts, but most of our offices out there compete in the commercial middle market. I don't think having data on what the last trade was in Los Angeles makes much difference to the guy in Tulsa.
Yeah.
That's just my opinion. We also do spend a lot of money with our Gallagher Insight product, trying to connect to clients, where we have a repository where they can see their team, where they can contact their team, where they can leave their policies basically online, we can interact online, electronically, what have you. That, we think, the connectivity and the ability to be a receptacle or a site for them to have meaningful information. They can get white papers on loss control, those types of things. We think that's been a pretty good place to spend our money.
The other question I had, you mentioned in your presentation that you're 60 years old. I still think of you as 50 for some reason. I think of myself as 35, by the way.
Do I. I think of me as 35.
It does raise the question of succession. You obviously are still very much engaged. I don't know of another guy by the name of Gallagher that's beneath you, but can you talk about how you think about succession and the board thinks about it?
In fact, I tell you, I don't mention this in presentations much, but I'll tell you, we have a dynamite, just dynamite group of young people coming up in the organization. I mentioned one in Minneapolis, 37 years old, and this guy is just dynamite. He's been with us 15 years. I mean, he's 37. We have a cadre of young, successful professionals that continue to grow and learn every single day. Of course, like any board, there's a responsibility for the board to make sure that they're very well keyed into who those people are, what is the appropriate time that they're going to move up, what are their development needs, and that, of course, includes my position as well. It would be imprudent and unpractical for a board not to make sure that they had that down. I tell them not to get trigger happy.
I like what I do. I like my job. I intend to do it for a long time. Thank you, Jay. Thanks, Allison. I think we're done with questions. We really appreciate the time here today. Thank you.