Well, great. Thanks, everyone. We're gonna start our next session. Very happy to have the management team from Bausch + Lomb, Brent Saunders and Sam Eldessouky. We'll kick it off. We're gonna do a fireside chat for the full 40 minutes. If you have any questions. Maybe we could quiet down, if you don't mind. If there are any questions in the audience, I'll pause and ask throughout. Just raise your hand, and we'll call on you. So maybe we'll kick it off. Brent, you know, a year or so, plus or minus, in the role as the CEO, there's been a lot of activity, robust growth in the market and your business. You made a major acquisition.
Maybe just sort of start off with the state of the union at the business and how things are going at Bausch + Lomb from your perspective.
Yeah, great. So first, thank you, guys, for coming, and Robbie, thanks for having us. It's a pleasure to be here. So you're right, I started, not that I'm counting, March 6th of 2023, was day one. And it's been a really terrific several months. You know, Bausch + Lomb is a really special company to me. I'd been here before, and it's like returning home, so that is always a positive. And I came in with a good understanding of both the company and the market, so I had a little bit of a running start than you typically do when you come in as a CEO into a company. Look, we have a great opportunity here. Bausch + Lomb is a 170-year-old company.
It's an integrated eye care company. It's probably got the broadest portfolio of products and services related to the eye, and that's what unites us, all right? Our mission is to see better, live better. And so the question is, how do we restore this company to a position of leadership in eye care? And for me, it really is got multiple prongs, right? It's never a simple solution. And I think I've said this quite clearly on many of our conference calls. It was about harnessing the power of the brand and of the people that were at Bausch + Lomb. We have around 13,000 colleagues all over the world. They are passionate about eye care, and it's about turning that passion into excellence.
There were three areas of focus for me, coming in. One was operational excellence, and I've talked a lot in the calls about our needed focus on our supply chain and our ability to supply products around the world. We have a very complex supply chain, from making everything from contact lenses to lasers, to pharmaceuticals, to OTC products in over 100 markets around the world. And so we, we've brought in a great new executive there. We've put a real focus on operational excellence.
There are no quick fixes or shortcuts in doing this in a highly regulated environment, but I'm very optimistic that in 2024 you'll start to see real improvements in our operational excellence, and that will continue into 2025, because most of these things are 12, 18, 24-month fixes, but it's a real focus for us. The second is selling excellence, and we have a really committed field force all over the world. We are learning a lot of new things about launch excellence. We have 2024 is probably the year of the most launches in the 170-year history. And so far, you know, with the few launches that we focused on, we're seeing real return. That needs to continue into 2024, and we have to keep a real focus on it.
And the third prong is innovation. And we need to restore Bausch + Lomb as an innovator. I'm looking at some of our R&D team sitting in front of me, but we spent a lot of time really looking at two things. One, our talent, and we've brought in some amazing scientists. We're gonna continue to build our capabilities inside of our R&D team. We've started to really support the existing R&D team, whether that be in contact lenses or in surgical, and certainly in pharmaceuticals. So, that, I think, is really giving us the ability to think about things that we haven't thought about in a long time, about how do we look for solving unmet need, bringing innovation, novel, new products to the marketplace across the entire portfolio. And so that's the focus that we have.
We have a roadmap to accelerate growth. We've made great progress on that in the 2023 time period, but I'm really excited for 2024 and the progress we're gonna make.
Maybe just to add on to that a little bit. You operate in really three different segments, contact lenses, eye care surgical, and then pharmaceutical, both prescription and over-the-counter. You know, what ties it all together? It feels like you're not necessarily all the same call point, you know, different teams for selling and so forth. But it seems to be working for Bausch + Lomb. So how do you think about all of those, and how do they sum up to more than the individual components?
Yeah, it's a great question, Robbie. Look, I mean, obviously the common factor is the eye, but, but the actual most important, I think, focus is the customer. And I think great customers do one thing well, is they exquisitely focus on their customer. And when you look at eye care, the ECP is the center of our universe, and no company can service an ECP the way Bausch + Lomb should, right? And so whether you're an optometrist fitting contact lenses and starting to become more of a primary care provider of eye services, particularly surface disease, dry eye, and other things like that, it's very important. And that's true for MIEBO and Xiidra, but it's also true for Blink, right? Because an OTC recommendation from a professional is incredibly important. On the surgical side, the same, right?
The surgeon is not just a surgeon. They wanna hear about capital equipment, lasers, phaco machines, certainly IOLs, but they also wanna understand the drugs and OTC options as well. And as you look at the world and how it's converging, many of these are becoming integrated practices all over the world. And so if we do our job right and we play to our strength, it's how do we service our customer better than anybody? And by having a full portfolio and leveraging that full portfolio, I think we can be in a position, in relatively short order, to provide the best customer experience to the ECP, who should be the center of everything we think about.
So there's a lot of different products I wanna talk about, but maybe before we get to that, I wanna look to the future in 2024. Realizing you haven't reported fourth quarter 2023 here, you know, I think there were some public comments you made on the last call and how to think about 2024. I look across street numbers, and people are pretty close together in mid-single digit organic sales growth for 2025, but it's really on the bottom line and down the P&L, I see a really wide divergence of estimates. You know, street's roughly flat on EPS year-over-year. We're a bit lower than that, really more on interest and below the line items. But just thinking about, one, how do you feel about consensus for next year? Any puts and takes on the top and bottom lines you can walk us through at this point.
Yes, so maybe I'll start, and then, Sam, you can jump in. Look, 2024 is an important year for us. As I mentioned earlier, it's our year of launches across the category, right? MIEBO is the biggest investment launch that we have in 2024, the first full year of MIEBO, and off to a really strong start, and we wanna... You know, I always have the expression, you know, in the pharmaceutical business, you wanna put gas on the fire, and we have a fire with MIEBO. It's really being accepted by ECPs and patients, and so we do wanna to continue to invest in MIEBO. We're relaunching Xiidra, and we saw some really good stabilization and beginning of growth in the fourth quarter, and we want that momentum to carry.
But we're launching, you know, contact lenses, we're launching IOLs, we're launching capital equipment. We have some consumer launches coming. So we have a really broad portfolio of investment, but we always wanna do that and create leverage in the P&L on margin improvement. And so, you know, I look at your model as an example. I think you did a really thoughtful job around margins for 2024. You know, we do wanna see improvement. If we didn't invest and we wanted to turn it on, we could have really put the gas on margin improvement. But I think you're gonna see that as a steady improvement with 2024 being a bit of improvement and then 2025 becoming bigger and bigger as we get into 2026 and beyond. But Sam, please.
No, I think that's exactly right. And, Robbie, I echo what Brent said when-
I would like to talk a little bit.
I looked at many of the models out there, and I think you've done a nice job with how you thought about 2024 for us. And really, the key comes down to if you start from the top line, you're starting down with how we think about the growth in the business, and we're always said that we're gonna be growing at or above market. So think about if the market is around the mid-single digits. But also the key decision, and that's part of the comments we made in the last earnings call, was we're early days in the MIEBO launch, and we're early days, we're just closing in our transaction with Xiidra.
And we knew that based on the early data that we've seen, that there was something good with us, and we wanted to make sure that we're gonna continue to invest behind it. So when you think about 2024, for us, it's an investment year. That's how I think about it. There's... I think Brent mentioned it also in the last earnings call, this is our highest number of launches we've had in B&L, history. So you're gonna fuel those launches with investments. And as you start thinking about the margin, it is not gonna be a lift, immediate lift, from a year to year, but it's gonna be a steady growth of margin as you go forward.
Maybe we could talk about both MIEBO and Xiidra, 'cause both dry eye products, different, let's call it, parts of their life cycle, right? One is brand new, one is a little more mature. Maybe speak to the rationale for having both of these under the same house and, you know, you touched on it briefly, but some of the early trends you're seeing both on the MIEBO launch and the script progression there, as well as your efforts to stabilize and improve Xiidra.
Yeah, so when you think about strategically why you want both products in your bag, it just makes a huge amount of sense. First, and probably the easiest answer is market leadership, right? We are the market leader, and this is a really interesting market, which I know well from my previous days. It is incredibly promotionally sensitive. You're talking about 38 million sufferers of dry eye in the United States. About 18 million actually receive treatment, but only about 1.5 million actually walk out with a prescription. So it is a massive market. And when you look at what happened, you know, when Xiidra launched into Restasis, the market expanded because you had two companies really promoting into the space.
When Novartis slowed down promotion, when they put the asset up for sale, you saw volume drop. When you see us pick it back up, it starts to expand again. And so the proof point is real, that this is a promotionally sensitive market. Now, look at the two assets that we have, right? We have, in my opinion, the best treatment option for someone suffering from inflammatory dry eye in Xiidra. It works quicker than the cyclosporines. It is a very good product. And then you have MIEBO, which is the only drug approved for evaporative dry eye. And so when you put those two together and you have a sales rep talking to a physician, you have a real therapeutic approach to the disease. It's not about a hammer looking for a nail.
It's about, let's really treat the etiology of this disease with the appropriate treatment, whether it be an anti-inflammatory or an evaporative drug. And so we have that. We are the only ones who have that, and we can work with customers again, doctors, in this case, in a much more meaningful disease orientation than you could when you're just a product. I think the other thing it does is it gives you the ability to invest in promotion when you have market leadership, right? For every person you move into prescription therapy, the overwhelming statistical odds is they're gonna walk away with a Bausch + Lomb product. And so that really does give us confidence in the ability to invest in expanding this very nascent market of patients treating with prescription therapy.
What are some of the benchmarks that you would look to on Xiidra that would make you think, "Wow, we, we really got this right, and this was worthwhile?" What would we be looking for in 2024 and beyond?
Yeah, I mean, I think you wanna see, you wanna see TRx growth. And, you know, we, we saw that in the fourth quarter. Our team, our field force in the U.S., our, our management team, I think did an excellent job of integrating very quickly a new field force. About 97% of, of the field reps from Novartis came over. They came over with great enthusiasm, versus being a small player in an asset held for sale, to being in a focused eye care company that really cares about it, right? So that was very meaningful, and, and we're, we're now integrating, or the team just integrated the MIEBO and Xiidra field force, and that just happened. And so I, I think, you know, we wanna see. We saw stabilization, and now in 2024, we wanna see real meaningful growth.
Shifting gears a little bit, maybe if I look at the margins for the different businesses, the surgical, the contacts, and the pharma. Pharma has the best margins. Surgical has the lowest margins, you know, and fairly well below other peers in the eye care surgical category. What can you do or what have you been doing, and what can you do from this point on to improve the margins? And, you know, what are some of the different steps where we could start to see that move up even more meaningfully?
Yeah, at a high level, and then, Sam, you should jump in. You know, surgical, I think, suffers from two things. One is mix, and second was supply. And so during, you know, the COVID and coming out of COVID, we had to to really scramble for componentry for capital equipment, and so we had to buy very high-priced componentry to maintain supply and maintain customer relations, and even that was a struggle. And that will continue, working through that inventory will continue in 2024. The other is mix. The reason you're in the equipment business is to get to the premium IOL business, and our premium IOL business is rather small. Particularly, it's mostly outside the United States. Grew pretty good, over 30%, but on a small number.
We are launching our really first premium IOL at the end of this year. We've launched two monofocal pluses in Aspire and IC-8 Apthera . And so we're building that portfolio to really service patients and physicians with a higher margin portfolio. So it's a combination of operational issues-
Mm-hmm.
and a combination of mix, and we are going to solve that over the next 12-18 months. But, Sam, any, any-
Yeah, and, just, and Robbie, to just go a little bit more detail, when you think about, the disruption that took place with COVID, with the supply chain, was something that we haven't seen before. And for you to be able to shift and pivot, with multiple suppliers, especially in the surgical part, it does take time because you have to qualify the suppliers. It takes time to be able to do that, and that's the runway that Brent is referring to, as you're gonna see in this year, you're gonna see into 2024. The way I would think about it is, we've been taking the steps and mainly using our balance sheet. We've been building up inventory. I think I referenced that in the last earnings call, built up inventory roughly about $700 million or so-
Mm-hmm.
To be able to mitigate some of those risks, and what we're seeing in supply chain. But also, we've held, I'll call the, the trough or the main point on the gross margin. When you think about gross margin in 2022, where we've seen the most of this hitting, we were running around 59.7. Our guidance for 2023 is roughly about 60%, 60.5% in terms of gross margin. So we're starting to see the steps, pay back, but we still need time to be able to actually get to where we wanna be. And obviously, the mix and the premium IOL is gonna be a big factor as we go into the new launches into 2024 and to 2025.
When you were part of Bausch Health, I feel like surgical is probably a bit underinvested in. You're now in the middle of and about to launch a more competitive pipeline, a family of products. At what point do you think, A, you can catch up to your peers in terms of competitive product portfolio, and then, B, when can you start to go on the offensive and put out first-in-class and best-in-class surgical IOLs?
Yeah, I think that's, that's a great question. I think you're right. I think that business was underinvested in. Going back to my, one of my main criteria is innovation. And you know, I think as you look at the products we're launching, it's to become competitive... right? And that's the 2024, 2025 cycle. The question is, can we jump ahead to being leading? And I think we can. There is a lot of innovation in surgical, particularly in IOLs. There is a whole, you know, I think, future of adjustable accommodating IOLs that are in development. And we are you know, looking at investing and/or doing it with you know, external parties and collaborating.
And I do think in the next two-three years, you'll see us meaningfully participating in that part of the market and leading.
Your first big acquisition as a CEO here was on the pharma side. Sounds like fair to say that it's not just pharma, you're looking at that surgical and potentially, I guess, contact lens, there's less available, but surgical and, and the med tech side might be open for inorganic as well?
Yeah, I think that's right. Look, we even with the acquisition of Xiidra, pharma is about 25% of our business, so we didn't tilt the company into one direction or the other. That being said, it was a great opportunity. Novartis had it for sale, and it was the perfect asset for us. And so, you know, like I tend to do, when I see something that strategically and financially makes sense, you play to win. That being said, you know, when you look at our ability to innovate, you know, one area where we have deep ability to do it ourselves is in contact lenses.
Mm-hmm.
We have a very strong team that can do that, and we are. We have some really interesting early contact lens innovations. They're too early to get excited and talk about just yet. But I think over the course of this year, we'll know a lot more, and then you'll hear us start talking about that innovation. Surgical, you're right. I think we are investing in our phaco platform. We're going to invest in our IOLs. We have a steady stream of launches coming on the premium category, but we're gonna supplement that with external science and innovation. Pharma, the same. And so it's about keeping innovation in all of our franchises moving forward as an important ingredient to success. That is the business we're in when we're in healthcare, is bringing innovation to patients.
And so when you forget about that, in fairness, I think Bausch + Lomb has forgotten about that for several years, in large part, not, there are exceptions, but we got to get back to it. That's how you lead, that's how you win.
Sam, maybe remind us where we stand now on debt levels, debt payback promises, and when you could start to go on the offensive again with M&A.
Sure, and I think what we right before our Xiidra transaction, we were seeing roughly about 3.5 times levered company. Obviously, we added $2 billion with Xiidra transaction, and that sort of, we've seen that leverage go up. Our commitment and how we thought about it is that we're—it takes about, call it 24 months, 18-24 months, to start seeing that benefit of the acquisition on Xiidra, sort of benefit, in terms of the debt leverage. So our view is always towards the end of 2025, we'll start getting to the leverage back to the 2.5 times.
Okay. So, and that's probably the time... Would you have capacity to do more tuck-in deals before then, or is that sort of the timeframe to think about more external?
Well, I, the way I think about it is, when you think about from tuck-in transactions, you'll, we always have capacity to do tuck-in transactions, right?
Mm-hmm.
I think we're gonna default back to the points that Brent says, if it strategically makes sense, financially makes sense, I think we'll be able to go after it. I don't think you're gonna see us doing anything significant in terms of the billions.
If we shift gears, surgical, you're just now launching your, your competitive products, and contact lenses, you have been launching the competitive portfolio, particularly on the daily SiHy side. Maybe speak to the trends you're seeing in your contact lens business. You've had some really good growth there. You've had, and we'll talk about some of the, you know, the speed bumps recently, but in terms of the overall trends and the demand for your products, it's been really healthy and robust, so maybe speak to that business.
Yeah. So, well, contact lenses is a heritage business. When you look at what's happened with the R&D development of daily SiHy for us, INFUSE or ULTRA Daily, depending on what market you're in, we have a great product. It is a great lens. We're launching the multifocal. We're gonna launch the toric and then the multifocal toric, and we have to launch them globally in all the markets. That is in process. The team has done a great job. You mentioned, we, you know, my first week here, we had an issue with being able to distribute. Our distribution facility had an upgrade that didn't work, and we were, you know, shot ourselves in both feet, I would say, is the best way to think about it.
We won't do that again. That's not acceptable. But that did, you know, stymie growth for us in 2023. That issue is almost completely resolved. It will get resolved completely this quarter. And so 2024 becomes a very important year to show that those are great products, we have a great portfolio, and we have a great team, and we've got to show it with execution in 2024. But Sam, any additions?
No, that's exactly right.
Maybe sort of same flavor of question: Do you feel like you have the right portfolio now in the contact lens business, and anything you'd be looking to add or potentially anything you'd be looking to exit?
Yeah, look, I think we have a... Today, we have a competitive portfolio. I can say that. I could not have said that perhaps two years ago. Today, we have a competitive portfolio, but we also deserve to lead, right, not follow. And that's where R&D really steps in, and again, you know, we have a few programs that we're starting to get excited about a bit early, but our R&D team in contact lenses is excellent, and I'm excited to see what we can develop this year and hopefully start to talk to you guys about.
... Maybe if I shift a little bit to the balance sheet and cash flow. And you did the Xiidra deal, brought leverage up. How should we be thinking about cash and Bausch + Lomb's utilization of cash, your conversion, both, you know, right now and in the future, what you aspire to move to?
Yeah, and when you think about the components of the business and also the Xiidra deal, we can't forget that Xiidra is also high cash generation asset. So that was one of the key attractive things for the transaction. But when you step back and just look at it, you, I think about just the cash deployment in general and capital allocation. I think one of the things that we've been focusing on from capital allocation is investing in the business. I think we just talked about the lens business. I think that business have received roughly about $1 billion of investments over the last number of years to be able to build up capacity. That's an area we'll continue to invest in the business as we go forward with the vision care in terms of CapEx.
But we're also investing in many of the product launches that we're talking through, the MIEBO and other launches that we have in 2024. So the number one priority from a cash deployment right now for us is reinvesting in the business and putting cash back in the business. That being said, the leverage and the strength of the balance sheet is very important for us, and that's really we're not losing sight of that target for end of 2025 of how we can actually get the balance sheet to where it should be.
I'll just pause, see if there are any questions in the room.
Sure. You can ask, and we'll repeat it.
Okay. You commented on the synergies across Xiidra and MIEBO from a physician customer perspective. Comment on what you see regarding market access customers or payer customers and reimbursement. Do you see equal potential for a synergy there?
Yeah. So the question was, was there synergy in managed care by having the two assets? And I think that there is. You know, ultimately, the way to succeed in managed care is to show you have good medicine and good demand. And when you look at what. You know, Xiidra has 70%, roughly about 70% managed care coverage. It's in very strong shape, right? You could see a little improvement there, but it's pretty much where it needs to be. You know, MIEBO is a new drug, and it takes some time, but the best way to get access is to show demand, show that patients or members, if you're the insurance company, want this medicine, and the team is doing that, right?
When you see the script volume, and you see that, you know, compared to all the other launches, MIEBO is beating all the other launches combined, right? And so that is the key to success. You know, it usually takes a year or so to get access. Maybe we'll get a little bit earlier, slightly optimistic there, but I do think we'll ultimately get to a point where MIEBO, you know, gets into the same zip code as Xiidra in the next year or two.
Any other questions?
Maybe staying on cash flow. You know, how should we think about your cash flow conversion overall, both as you absorb Xiidra? I'm sure there are one-time expenses. You're investing in the business. And then maybe as we look out to 2024, is it going, the conversion rate, up, down, or staying the same?
I think we're gonna see improvement in conversion rate. I think one of the things you will keep in mind in the short term, I talked about the capital allocation between the investment of the business as well as, the debt pay down. But the other factor is also supply chain and manufacturing. And I think that's, as we think about 2024, that's a work in progress. And when you think about the steps that Al has taken from our side to be able to work through supply chain and manufacturing, one of the levers that we will end up using will be the balance sheet, which will be a utilization of working capital-
Mm-hmm.
to be able to build either inventory or support with what we need to do in the immediate stuff. So that's gonna have a short-term, I'll call it, impact on the conversion as we think about 2024.
Mm-hmm.
You're probably after 2024 into 2025, you start getting more of, I'll call it, the steady conversion rate for us.
Great. Maybe just moving around a little bit. Two of the issues that come up a lot when I talk to investors are China and currency. So let's touch on each of those. And, you know, you have a lot of different currencies that impact revenues and then also down the P&L. How are you thinking about the current mark to market of FX rates today?
Yeah, and we're in a very unique position when you think about where we manufacture and where we sell. Our manufacturing is really focused in the U.S. and also in Europe, mainly in the European zone, on the Eurozone. And that gives you is that the dynamics of what you're economically hedged to is different, and it does have an impact in terms of how those currencies play, not only dollars to euro, but also how the euro plays with other pair of currencies, like a Japanese yen, et cetera. So we've seen volatility in the currency for the last, I'll say, probably the last two years, maybe 24 months ago, currency was really a bad headwind for us. We've seen that moderate. I think this year, our guidance for 2023 was up about $85 million of currency headwind.
And I think when we talked about 2024 back during the earnings call, we said it was roughly about we expect another $100 million for next year. This is something changing and evolving. This number is, as we look at currency rates right now, this has continued to moderate, so it will be less than $100 million as we go forward. We'll update that as when we give our guidance for the full year, but we're seeing that currency trend continue to move in the right direction. But I'm not gonna speculate on currency, because that will be the number one thing I'll be wrong on.
Your job's harder. All our jobs are hard enough. We don't need to be currency traders as well on top of it. And maybe on China, VBP has hit your business. Just remind us the negative impact from VBP and your sales exposure to China overall.
Yeah, we don't have much of an impact from the VBP.
Okay.
Just China as an overall, China represents roughly about 9%-10% of our portfolio, and it's one of our largest markets.
What about trends in China? You know, they were a bit. You have a consumer element there. They were a bit softer over the course of 2023 versus expectations earlier in the year. What are you seeing in China today, and what are your thoughts on the future for this market?
Yeah. So, you know, China, for us, is mostly contact lenses, and we have a strong position there. You know, the daily SiHy launched in 2023 there, and is building momentum. We also, you know, have invested in our capabilities in China around DTC, direct-to-consumer. And we've brought in a really new, terrific general manager. So I was just there a few months ago. I'm going back, I believe, in March, and I'm pretty optimistic on our ability to execute in that market, where we do have a, you know, number two position in lenses, which is, frankly, I think the only market where we're number two, that I'm aware of. So it's an important opportunity for us.
We have the portfolio, we have the team, we've built some capabilities. We're still gonna invest in more capabilities, but I'm optimistic. I think we saw, what, about 6% growth-
That's correct.
In China in the third quarter, and you know, I hope that we can exceed that in 2024.
Yeah. Here today.
What if I take that question on a more global basis? Contact lenses, in the event of an economic slowdown, what's your expectation? I mean, the last time we saw one was the global financial crisis, and I feel like that was so idiosyncratic, along with the way healthcare was delivered and the shifts and the severity of it. Fingers crossed, we don't ever see something like that again, but, you know, in a more mild recession, what's your expectation for the lens business?
Yeah. Look, I mean, first of all, I hope we never see something like we saw in 2008 or 2009. That being said, you know, look, if you saw a moderate recession, I think you have to believe that that's, you know, likely at some point is gonna happen. You know, that business is still, very low penetration, massive growth, and so could you see a muted impact from a recession? Perhaps a small one. But I don't think it changes the overall dynamics of the marketplace. Now, a significant recession may be slightly different, but I think your going assumption is that is a robust, healthy marketplace, high growth, and we have a good product portfolio across all price points to compete. So, I think about it. I'm, you know, certainly-
Mm-hmm.
You know, I don't wanna say don't worry about something, 'cause I do, but I don't think that that would have a significant impact one way or another. It would just toggle it a little bit here or there.
As a contact lens wearer, I can never imagine going back to glasses, and I imagine that's most-
When you won't trade down, you won't say, "Okay, I'm not gonna spend an extra $30 and go to an uncomfortable new lens," right? If you're satisfied, you're gonna stay. It's a very sticky business. As you know, it's a... The reason you're in that business, in large part, is because it's such a sticky business.
Same question on the surgical side. That's mostly, at least on the IOL side, a cash pay market. Is that a risk in an economic slowdown?
Probably a bit more than, than lenses, particularly on the premium. Obviously, on the monofocal, no, but on the premium. And that's why I like, I like how we're positioning with, with Aspire and IC-8 as kind of a moderately priced option. Our premium is coming and, and our but a really strong monofocal business. So, you know, going into 2025, we should have a full price portfolio, where, where surgeons can, can talk at different price levels with patients about not just monofocal vision, but if you're really, you know, intermediate vision or reading this, what's important to you? We have some price options that aren't the full premium, and, and I think we've positioned ourselves well for that.
We haven't yet really touched on the consumer business, the OTC, which has had really, really strong growth across many of the product portfolios. You know, how sustainable is that? I guess, is the question, 'cause it's quarter after quarter, we see really, really good growth. How much longer do you think that can last for, and are there any key new product launches we should be aware of in that business?
Yeah, so you're right. I think that business is performing, you know, arguably the best inside the company. Great team, great product portfolio. PreserVision continues to do well. We continue to innovate around PreserVision. And when you look at nutraceuticals in whole, I think there's a real opportunity for us to expand leadership into other categories, and that will be something we'll be talking about in the next few months. Lumify is, you know, a rocket ship.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't seem like there's an end in sight to its growth. We're looking at innovations around that. We have the Eye Illuminations that are launching now. We have product combinations and upgrades coming. We're looking at packaging and other upgrades, and so I think that continues as long as you continue to invest appropriately behind it. And now, of course, you know, we're scouring the world for other things because, in fairness, I do say this often, our consumer team can do more, and we need to give them more products, and they have proven they know how to do it. And so we should. Same analogy I said about MIEBO, putting gas on the fire, we need to do that with the team that we have in consumer, because I'm very proud of that team.
Maybe last, it's been a while since we've gotten an update on the spin. You know, is there anything-
I was just so surprised that wasn't the first question, but yeah.
Anything you could share in terms of timing or hurdles that still have to be jumped over to get it done?
Yeah. So obviously, it's not in our control. It's a BHC board decision, but I do think it will happen. I'm optimistic that it could happen in 2024, but I can't put a timeline or certainty around it. You know, they do wanna do it-
Mm-hmm.
And they have some legal issues they are working through to figure out how to best do it. So when that resolves, hopefully, the next few months, we'll have a clearer picture.
Mm-hmm. I mean, there are several different permutations, good, bad, medium, in terms of outcomes, you know. Are you preparing if the spin doesn't happen? What happens to Bausch + Lomb?
Yeah. So I'll tell you how I think about it, again, with the caveat and all the disclaimers that I don't control it, and it's a BHC decision, is that I don't think there's really any situation where it doesn't happen. It's just a question of when and how. And so, you know, we are—The train has left the station. We are a separate company, separate management teams, separate PNLs, and putting the genie back in the bottle is almost near impossible. And so I think it does happen. It's just a question of when and how, what format does it happen in? And so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about when it doesn't happen, because I think the probability of that is really, really low.
Okay. Well, great. We're out of time. I wanna thank you very much for a great session. Thanks, everyone, for listening.
Great. Thanks, Robbie.