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KeyBanc Capital Markets Technology Leadership Forum

Aug 6, 2024

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

We'll kick things off here now and keep the door open 'cause I think investors are gonna flow through.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Okay.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So, thanks, everyone, for attending. My name is Scott Schoenhaus. I'm the healthcare tech analyst here at KeyBanc. Pleasure to have Peter Kuipers, the new CFO of Clover Health. Peter, why don't we just... You know, this is a tech forum.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

We have all tech investors. So why don't we, high level, break down what Clover Health does, and, and what is their tech stack, and what is the offering here.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

... in the healthcare setting?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Well, first off, great to be here, Scott. Thanks for hosting and having us here. Yeah, so Clover Health has really a differentiated business model, and we do have a technology stack. So, we are an insurance plan focused on Medicare Advantage, using mostly a PPO structure or chassis. However, our approach is differentiated from other plans. We use technology, AI-powered proven technology, large language models that have been trained for many years. We started in 2018. So what our technology actually does, it helps the PCP or the general practitioner, at the point of care, make better-informed decisions about care management for a patient.

And how we do that, we connect our technology, called Clover Assistant, AI-powered, cloud-based, connects over 100 different data sources via the cloud and recommends care paths, if you will, for a physician to look at, right? So think about connected information from other EHR systems, pharmacies, labs, et cetera, right? So it's very insightful, specifically in a world where interoperability is a big challenge, right? So visibility for a general practitioner is really difficult, so our solution actually helps that. We have a couple of white papers that you can see on our website as well, really showing that we really help general practitioners recognize and diagnose chronic diseases earlier.

For example, as a white paper, you can see that, our technology enables, physicians using our software platform to diagnose, chronic kidney disease about 18 months earlier. And what that actually then means is that, of course, treatment can start earlier, right? It might have more med ex in the front, front-loaded in the front end, if you will, but total cost of care over lifetime is gonna be lower, right? So... And then, of course, for the patient, of course, there's better health outcomes as well. So, if you look at our team, right, our CEO came from Google. We've got a lot of scientists, if you will. CTO came from Yahoo as well. I have a technology background also from Yahoo and from Omnicell, so, impressed with the technology stack. So we actually are differentiated that way.

The beauty of the technology stack also, if you just look at if you talk about proven technology, so we have proven this technology operating an insurance plan at full risk. So we are at full risk for the medical cost for our Clover Health Medicare Advantage members, and we've demonstrated in published results that we are able to, what is called the medical cost ratio, to lower that medical cost ratio over time, right? So demonstrated ability. So we have now also made the same technology available for other Medicare Advantage plans.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So you're pulling a bunch of data. You're helping the provider, the clinician, the physician, make better decisions earlier on for treatment-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Mm-hmm

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

... ultimately for lowering cost and providing better treatment for the patient. It's a tool used for doctors.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Can you maybe drill in more? So it's specifically on Medicare Advantage.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yes.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So for tech investors who really don't know, these are older, population sets, 65 and older, commercial plans. Can you talk about your current customer demographic in terms of, like, where you're positioned, geographically in the US?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Where you are trying to grow, where you're targeting growth in that network of providers?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah, let's start there.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, so most of our member base are also called Clover cardholders, if you will. It's a way to think about it. The majority are in New Jersey. But we're also in Georgia, Texas, and some other states as well. And we do have, of course, also a density in these states where general practitioners are using the Clover software. So that's where you have this overlap, if you will, of both members and the use of the software. That really leads to powerful outcomes, right? So, we have growth opportunities in these states, specifically, of course, also in New Jersey. We have a, you know, around a 10% market share. We believe we can, we can organically grow there.

And then, of course, we can expand otherwise as well, also via what we call the Counterpart-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yes

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

... software offering.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

That's right.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

You can, we can talk about that a little bit as well.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So you know, you recently announced this, Counterpart Health. It's a subsidiary of Clover Health-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

... and it's a software platform that's available for, you know, external payers and providers. You know, let's talk about more about this software platform and the opportunity set this brings to your company.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, so maybe let's first talk about kinda just the technology solution itself.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Right? The technology, it's the same technology solution that we use in our plan that has demonstrated significant results over time.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yep.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

So that same technology we make now available for other plans and also for at-risk providers. There are many plans out there that have significantly higher medical cost ratios, right? They're struggling with the economics, if you will, and we can help there, right? So the software can be implemented in one day. Essentially, physicians can be trained in one hour, right? So, and then the flywheel can start working, right, to bring down the medical cost ratio and then also, of course, improve the profitability of these plans or at-risk providers, if you will. And we have a separate presentation of that, I think, on our website as well.

On Counterpart Health, you can see there that we're confident that we're able, over time, to help these plans or providers to lower their medical cost ratio by 1000 basis points. So that's 10%.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Over what period of time can you do that?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Over multiple years.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Mm-hmm.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. And then the revenue model is both, PMPM or SaaS-based, so a monthly fee per member that's covered by this technology, per month, right? Plus then also a share gain.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Got it.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

So a tech-enabled services fee, where we then share in the, in the savings-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

... by lowering the MCR. The first slice, if you will, think about officially, the first slice, we give to the, to the customer, in this case-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yes

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

... the other plan or, the risk-bearing provider, right? So, it's actually really a beautiful model 'cause you don't really need to argue or discuss-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Right.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

the savings, because it's a simple calculation, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

That's beautiful. Then in the upside from there, after that first slice, we share in it proportionately, right? In with a different percentage.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Now, if you're executing beyond expectations, do you... Is there an opportunity to renegotiate those terms year to year? Or, I mean, are we not there yet because the product is so new that,

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah, we're starting. I would say we've commented publicly that we have very good momentum in the pipeline as well. We see a lot of interest, right? So, yeah, of course, these deals are mostly multi-year.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yep.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

With a renewal option, of course, as well, and an expansion option. Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So the Counterpart application, the platform, how does it sit on the payer and the health system? Like, how do doctors use it?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Just kind of describe the technology-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

... and the platform.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah, the implementation is very straightforward. It's cloud-based, can be installed in an hour, essentially, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Wow.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

On our website, you can actually see the user interface. I came from a technology background for many years. I do care about user interface, and it's a really elegant user interface. It's an Apple-like, elegant design, where some of the EHR systems and some rev cycle systems are maybe a little bit more difficult to navigate. This is a beautiful system that, as a user, you will want to use. So it actually generates suggestions to give care, if you will, and from a human perspective, you will want to look at it. And we have proven results, if you will, that we actually have a.. You can really call it yield or conversion, actually, in general physicians choosing the right care path, if you will, a recommended care path.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

How big is this Counterpart Health opportunity, Peter, in your opinion, both in the near and longer term? Do you think it's a bigger opportunity than, you know, just your current what I wanna call install base, but it's not really your install base, but is your current customer set opportunities, with the-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

... MA members that you're working with? How do you think about this?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Maybe we can talk about the shorter term and kind of medium term-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

... and longer term and delineate there. Shorter term, what we've said is we have a rich pipeline that's progressing, and deals are getting signed, if you will, and deals are getting implemented, right? And then, of course, we talked a little bit earlier about the revenue model, right? So the PMPM SaaS revenue will start to show up over time, and it will build as members grow, as well as recurring revenue. The share gain largely recognized after a year is completed.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yep.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

We can calculate it. It's pretty straightforward, but still, that's gonna be after the PMPM, if you will. Of course, we have sized the opportunity, and we're, of course, refining the go-to-market approach as well. It's a little bit too early to size it, but I would say it's definitely meaningful. Gross margin profiles are similar to other SaaS companies, right? So the beauty here is that we already have a proven technology. We're not pre-revenue, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Right.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

So, there's more to come, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So you're saying your gross margin profile is that of a typical software business, 90%, 80% gross margin profile?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

I wouldn't go that high.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Okay.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's more... It's lower than that, obviously.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Okay.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

But above the gross profit profile of the plan side today.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah, of course.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah, yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Meaningfully.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

So really large, high-margin growth opportunities by offering this, this, this capability?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yes. Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

And you can offer it nationally, right? There's no hindrance in going to different states.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Correct.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Okay.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

You know, maybe let's switch topics here. Bigger picture, why should investors put Clover now in the same category as other tech companies or AI-focused companies rather than a healthcare services? I know you're trying to sort of shift this business model in that direction.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

How, how do we, how do we bridge that?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah, well, that's why we're here today as well, of course. I would say we're probably one of the only companies or really small group of companies in healthcare where we have applied AI, a large language model, machine learning, in real life, with real-world results, both for patients and also financially. So that is different. We chose, when the company was started, actually, to prove it out in a plan-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

and get real-life results. So the other choice would have been just develop maybe a technology solution and see where you can implement it. So we chose the first option.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

And, Peter, maybe give some back. You know, you're relatively new to Clover, and the CFO, as the CFO. What attracted you to this company?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

And I'm sure you had other opportunities, but why-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Why, why did you choose Clover?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, great, great question. You know, what I'd like to do is, what I've done, of course, over my career, is, scale platforms, scale technology, if you will. There's a beautiful opportunity, both on the plan side to use the technology, but also on the Counterpart Health side, right? So there's very favorable unit economics that we see. We should also mention that kinda the power underneath also of the performance is really also really cohort management, right? So the software tool really enables cohort management upfront, at the point of care, real-time, and not, you know, after claims have been processed a couple of months later, if you will. Also, you know, it's not only the technology, we have a lot of talent in the company. A lot, lots of talent.

So I would say there's a lot more to come, right? And then maybe the health of the business, so we had results, 2Q earnings we reported-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yes.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

yesterday. Uh-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Why don't we dive into that?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

really strong business fundamentals and, and momentum as well. So those, those three things, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah, let's dive into that.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

What are some of the highlights from last night when you reported results? Maybe the top sort of talking points.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Top metrics.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah, top metrics. Sorry.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. So organic revenue growth, double digits at 11%, year-over-year. Adjusted EBITDA, $37 million, sorry, $36 million for 2Q, $43 million for the first half of the year. Industry-leading medical cost ratio, MCR-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yep.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

That really proves the model again and again. Cash flow generation from operating activities, $46 million and positive net income. All above our own expectations and,

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Consensus.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

and also consensus as well.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Right.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

It's very strong, and we're just getting started. Of course, we're really building value here on the medium to long term.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Right.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

So...

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

You know, maybe the next question is, you know, AI gets a lot of buzz in healthcare, in various different ways. Maybe, Peter, we can talk about, you know, how do you see AI and technology changing the healthcare industry?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

over the next several years, and maybe specifically-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

in your end markets?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. AI is definitely, in my view, in our view, needed in healthcare.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

The question is, where do you apply it, and how do you apply it?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Mm-hmm.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Right, there's definitely a shortage of specialized or qualified labor in many areas in healthcare.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yes.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

To talk about the U.S. specifically, right?

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yeah.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

We focus on the point of care.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Yep.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Right? Where general practitioners, PCPs, might see 20 or 30 patients in a day. They're stretched for time. They can't see all the information. We bring all the information together from all these data sources with a holistic view. So A, that's a really great point, or area for AI, if you will. But I would maybe delineate between AI-type applications for kinda dashboarding, maybe pop health or kinda rev cycle that will have results, but not necessarily directly on, on care. So we care about AI applications with real-world outcomes, both better outcomes for patients and better financial results also, and lower medical cost of care-

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Great

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

-in total.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Last question for me, and then I'll open up to the audience. Can we talk about your liquidity, your balance sheet, where you-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

currently stand after

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

-2Q results?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, very strong balance sheet, no debt, over $450 million of total cash, $201 million of that for the end of June is in what's called unregulated, so it's not related to the, to the insurance plan, if you will. Positive cash flow, again, in the, in the first half. We don't anticipate any need for external funding, if you will, to continue to grow, to grow the top line and profitability over time.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Is it building your own tech stack? Would you look for M&A to do some bolt-ons on the tech side? How are you viewing M&A?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah, on the core of essentially using AI at the point of care for general practitioners and PCPs, we don't believe we need any acquisitions there 'cause we're industry leading. There might be some adjacencies on maybe on the dashboarding side here and there.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Okay.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

That'll be helpful, but we could maybe also develop it internally. I'm really impressed with our technology team as well. As you can see in the prepared remarks in yesterday's earnings call, we're also now starting to provide an update on the technology and innovation roadmap.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Wow.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

We'll, we'll continue to do that, as you can find that there, if you will.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Great. Well, I'll open up to the audience. I have maybe a few, a few more, but anyone have any questions for Peter on Clover?... Maybe a follow-up to your new Counterpart. You're selling both into, payers, the insurance-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

companies, but also directly into providers.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yes.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Have you had to alter or change your sales force? How is that go-to-market strategy different, and what, in your... If you had to sit here today, what do you think is a bigger opportunity or the easier, easier conversation to have, the payers or the providers?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a great question. Of course, our go-to-market strategy is evolving.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Mm-hmm.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Right? So we're talking about healthcare here, where a sales cycle, generally, as we know, is kind of up to a year, right? So a benefit we have, though, is that implementation of Counterpart Health can be a day, essentially, right? So that, that is, that's definitely a benefit. Yeah, so we have a sales/BD team. That's the right way to think about it. I mean, it's fairly early on to delineate between the two. Maybe there's other areas as well, where Counterpart can be very attractive for users. I would size them for now equal.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Okay.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Equal opportunities between the two. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3

What differentiates you versus your competitors? Is that the very usable, elegant interface, or when you win against somebody, why do you win? And conversely, when you lose, why do you lose?

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah. Yeah, there is no, there is really no direct competitor, right? So if you look at it, I guess, via two lenses, right? From a consumer perspective, so the, the insured member, the Clover member, really looks at freedom to choose their general physician, PCP. So the vast, vast majority of our members are on our PPO plan, so they can choose their general physician that they want, if you will. And of course, also other benefits, the OTC benefits are also important. So that's kinda delineation on the consumer side. While the general physicians are not kind of a customer, if you will, right? We, of course, talk to them to really show the benefit of the software for them to use in their practice, right? Better health outcomes, et cetera. That's the way to think about it. Yeah. Thank you.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Well, thanks, everybody, for attending. Peter-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Great.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Good to see you.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Yeah.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

And all the best-

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Okay

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

and your success with this company.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Okay.

Scott Schoenhaus
Analyst, KeyBanc

Thanks, everybody.

Peter Kuipers
CFO, Clover Health

Great. Thanks for having us. Thank you.

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