Good morning, everyone. My name is Brian Peterson. I'm one of the application software analysts here at Raymond James. We're really happy to have Commerce with us, the rebranded Commerce, back at the conference again this year. Travis Hess and Daniel Lentz, we'll start with, we can make this interactive in the audience, guys, if you have questions. But Travis, maybe start with you. There's been a lot of changes since you've been involved, maybe about a year ago, a little over a year ago.
Yeah, a little over a year.
So maybe kind of start there, some of the big changes and what you guys are looking forward to.
Yeah, I mean, sequentially, it started with the human capital side. So pretty deliberately turned over that senior leadership team with some exceptions. Certainly great folks were there for a period of time and just, for whatever reason, probably weren't the right assets to kind of transform the company. So we started there with human capital, moved quickly into re-architecting the go-to-market muscle. Obviously, we had three separate brands and three separate products at the time: BigCommerce, the flagship product, Feedonomics, and Makeswift. And so there was an effort there to integrate that initially from a go-to-market perspective and then obviously from an operational perspective. And then it really moved into the rebrand over to Commerce. So again, we had this challenge with the flagship product being named after the platform, but we had these two other products that are playing quite notably, especially now in the agentic space.
We knew we needed to kind of get that under one banner. That took a little bit longer than we expected, vetted a lot of really lousy suggested names and things like that, but we're fortunate enough that Commerce became available and landed that earlier this summer. Then the last piece, and really what we're in right now, we're in execution mode, but it's really around product. Right now, those products are integrated, especially with agentic, they're morphing and overlapping quite a bit and being applied in market. We're just really heavily invested in shipping more product, which is something that we had not done a great job of.
We've had very little product-led growth in the past, and we've got a really great base of clients that we are now in the effort of producing shipping product and selling business into, which was a motion we did not have in place in a myriad of levels a year ago.
I want to hit on the product, but just as you think about the rebrand, you started earlier this year. Is there anything that you can kind of point to in terms of awareness or stats and anything you can share there?
Yeah, the reception's been really positive, obviously. The downside is you're named after a category, so you find yourself correcting yourself every now and again, but I think it was apropos, especially with the state of just the industry Commerce today and how it's morphed and transformed just all in and of itself, obviously with the answer engines and a lot of the consumer behavior over the last six months and just sucking a lot of the air out of the room and market, so what it's doing is it's creating a lot of different commercial models, a lot of different strategic models. It's catalyzing a lot of transformation organizationally in the space.
I think the category name is very broad enough where we're not painted into a corner, where we're just a platform company, or we're just a feed enhancement and syndication company, or we're just an experience company. It's all of those things and then some, and there may be different combinations of those now and into the future as all of this stuff continues to transform.
If I think about your product portfolio in agentic AI, obviously that's like the big theme that everybody's talking about here. How does the different assets kind of make you guys differentiate and compete in an agentic world?
It's very fortuitous. We're front and center. I mean, the most obvious association is really on the Feedonomics side. We are for 30% of the Internet Retailer 1000. So we're working with some of the largest brand and manufacturers, retailers in the world. And we have the most enriched version of their product catalog, which is front, core and center, particularly around right now the discoverability side of agentic. So think of agentic as autonomous agents being able to negotiate, operate, act on behalf of customers either directly or indirectly. And for that to be enabled and to happen at scale, obviously it starts and ends with the enrichment and the optimization, the standardization of your data set, particularly your catalog data. So you would imagine there's a tremendous amount of demand having that most enriched version. So we have those catalogs.
We've been enriching and syndicating them across pretty much every surface those brands and retailers show up against in marketplace and ads historically and now into those agentic channels, oftentimes with partners like a PayPal or a Stripe or others as this stuff starts blending, and then with the platform side, you're going to start seeing more products come out around, say, agentic checkout. We're able to, again, allow our merchants to sell across these different channels, not just show up but sell across those different channels, and then Makeswift will probably be the last piece of that where you're going to start seeing data-driven experiences on different services that are both owned and non-owned. Think hyper-personalized experiences. Consumers are going into answer engines. They're having contextual conversations.
They're getting recommendations that may send them off surface for a very unique hyper-personalized experience with a curated experience based on that data set to that individual to drive more immersion, more brand loyalty, and more conversion.
Can I ask, as you think about your merchant base, where are they in terms of kind of the AI evolution? There's kind of experimentation, putting stuff in the market. I guess I'm curious, as you think about all those opportunities, where are you seeing the most interest in where people are still trying to figure things out?
I think there's interest everywhere. I think the level of maturity dictates kind of where they are in that spectrum. And I think a lot of what's preventing people from becoming self-actualized, so to speak, in that model are the answer engines themselves. I think they're real, first of all, half of them did not have merchant centers. If you think of Perplexity and OpenAI, as brilliant as they are, they didn't grow up like Google and Microsoft. So they didn't have the governance and the acumen and the infrastructure to support what it is that we're sending at scale or others are sending at scale. And so they're kind of getting their sea legs a little bit. They're starting with what's most common and probably the easiest route to get basic integration is, but they're also starting to figure out in real time how complicated this is.
You're starting to see some of the shopping experiences that came out shortly before Black Friday. It's single item checkout. It's things that brands don't traditionally love. You don't have loyalty integration. You have single item checkout. You've got maybe compromises to AOV and conversion, things like that. So they're kind of skinning their knees along the way. I think most of the interest is around discoverability. I think less interest right now around shopping because the brands can't control the service. They can't control the experience, and some of the aforementioned sort of hurdles I mentioned earlier are kind of challenging, but I think they want to be present.
They want to be contextually relevant in these conversations, but they also have a lot of brand ethos and they need the controls to make sure they can kind of protect where they show up, how they show up, and who they show up next to, so that's really where most are. They know they need to do it. They're working to optimize to be able to do it, and they're waiting for those channels and those surfaces to mature where they feel like they can have enough governance and control to drive efficacy without losing control of the brand.
Is there any element of kind of like the build versus buy discussion that you have with customers? Because it seems like that's been a lot of like, oh, let's try to build this. But if you think about commercial software applications, which you guys have spent a lot of time on, the value is pretty intuitive to me, but I'm curious what your customers are thinking as it relates to that.
One of the biggest advantages we have, obviously, is the antithesis of building it. It's sort of the value is we don't want to maintain the connective tissue across all these different services. It's constantly changing and evolving.
From the merchant perspective.
From a merchant perspective, correct. Yeah. So from a merchant perspective, the value is coming to us. We're that one throat that's going across everything, which is a huge advantage. And obviously, we're looking at the world through the lens of thousands of customers as opposed to one. So the presumption is our point of view and perspective will be more progressive and more innovative than what they could possibly do on their own. It'll be interesting to see as the shopping becomes more and more enabled, how valuable of a service or a channel is that for these brands and how sophisticated does it get? Because once you get into the back office in these sort of agentic models, it's where things get very, very complicated.
Sure.
We're talking about order orchestration and loyalty, returns, exchanges. I mean, all the mess on the back office is not what customers necessarily see, but it's what certainly brands and retailers see, and they're keenly aware of it.
One thing I might build on that too, I think there's almost a two-way one-to-many advantage that we have where we can provide value either to the merchants or to the LLMs. From the merchant perspective, if they wanted to do all this directly themselves, they would need to maintain those connections with each of those channels individually. Whereas through Feedonomics, we do this for hundreds of channels, whether they're ads or marketplaces or LLMs or whatever. The same is also true from the LLMs, but rather than it being about channels, it's about platforms. One of the reasons we rebranded is because Feedonomics is actually a platform-agnostic solution. It actually takes and ingests catalog data structured and unstructured from all the major commerce platforms that are out there, not just BigCommerce, including whether it's Salesforce or Wix or Shopify or whomever.
And so a lot of the reason the LLMs are actually reaching out to us is to say, look, if we can work through you, and the reason we're partnering with PayPal and others for the same reason, they're saying, look, you have the catalog data across all of the platforms and you're used to feeding multiple platforms' catalog data into multiple channels. So we kind of have an opportunity to be the kind of the pipes of preference, so to speak, for where this is going with the LLMs, which is one of many things that we're investing in right now.
So you mentioned it a little bit earlier, Black Friday, Cyber Monday. I know that's kind of a big thing in terms of the e-commerce space. Any thoughts on how that turned out for you guys a couple of weeks ago?
Yeah, I'd just say so far, so good. I want to wait till we get through the whole holiday season, obviously, but there were a lot of things we saw that we're quite excited about. Feel good about the quarter, same places where we were before. We just want to see where the holidays shake out.
In any maybe historical context, how big of a period is that relative to GMV for the quarter? I know it's not a huge number, but it's definitely activity is a lot.
It really depends on the year. It's more about the longer weekend. Last year, we saw more pull forward into actually late October, which was odd compared to other years, less so this year. Really, I kind of don't lose too much sleep over one particular day or five-day period because we've seen sometimes where the Cyber Five is really, really high and then the week after ends up a little bit low. That's usually why I'm just, A, I'm just conservative by rule, but two, also I just like to wait and see how we get through the whole period, but so far, so good.
Okay. B2B, been a big focus area for you guys. Where are you in terms of attacking that opportunity? and I'll have a couple in terms of the friction points for adoption, but where are you guys at B2B?
I think it's a space we've done really, really well in, well recognized in the space, particularly in mid-market and up into enterprise. It's been the majority of our net new bookings over the last,
how many sequential quarters at this point?
Probably two years.
Yeah, the last couple of years. So it's a place we play really heavily in. Obviously, those are different cycles and there's different theses on why people are moving over. A lot of it has to do with back office complexity. A lot of it has to do with innate manual processes or them being automated. So there's a human capital transformation as part of it as well. So it's often done with consultancies, GSIs, and agencies to help with that transformation, which is great and enriching and transformative, but it's a place that we're going to continue to double and triple down on and a lot of momentum this year.
Why do you feel like that's a lot? I mean, B2C, I think a lot of this has been there for a while, right? Even there's a lot of legacy applications out there, but why has B2B been so slow to adopt? And what changed that? What's the value? Does AI change that? I mean, what can help them?
Yeah, AI can change it a lot. I mean, traditionally, I mean, you still got 30% of manufacturers and distributors that aren't digitized. So just straight up, I mean, compare that to B2C and you're not going to see near that level. So you've got a massive TAM there of immaturity. The immaturity comes from a couple of different ways. A lot of those organizations grow inorganically, so they end up growing by way of acquisition. So they've got a lot of disparate things on the back end. There's not one centralized owner. And so you've got this very fragmented org that's trying to go through transformation, but nobody really owns the transformation. And it's hard when you've got three or four different sources of truth and ERPs and different personalities, cultures, earn-outs, things like that. So that's historically been tradition.
Then you've got a human capital element of it that, again, are getting disintermediated by the fact that we don't want folks necessarily to go through manual processes, through call centers, through FTEs to go get answers or go quote products and facilitate things. We want them to go through digital channels, which again, I think people figure out pretty quickly that if that's what happens, they become in some theory superfluous. AI is going to accelerate that certainly, especially around CPQ and things. As you get up market and maturity in B2B, what tends to happen is you just have very configurable products, which get very, very complicated, custom price lists. People are buying on terms, punching out a lot of these things that can be automated by way of AI. And I think you're going to see AI disrupt that space.
Maybe it's starting later than B2C, but I think it's going to have a more meaningful impact to B2B than it will to B2C. That's just my opinion.
Are there any verticals or proof points within certain areas where you guys have a certain area of success? And can that build as you kind of, I guess I'm just curious, does it go kind of end market by end market or how are you attacking that?
There's different associations. Yeah, there are verticals and sub-verticals within that. I mean, we traditionally, in the broadest sense, between manufacturing and distribution, so you've got manufacturers that are selling and there are oftentimes they're selling through distributors. So that sets up some pretty innate complexities depending on how much volume a distributor is moving with a particular manufacturer, what that price list looks like, how many custom price lists they're maintaining on any given time. How do you simplify that through the process? What sort of means and approval processes in the back office are put in place to allow someone to go shop and then obviously buy? It's not so much around the experience of the conversion. The conversion is very, very high in B2B because you have to buy through this portal. You're not trying to convert someone per se.
Experience is important because you want people to make it easy to find things. So again, that's another place where AI is going to make things way more discoverable at scale, which should drive a lot more efficacy and more rationale for people wanting to digitize. I think that's going to be the biggest shift is what would maybe have taken six months to get from point A to point B, maybe you can do in two months. And that'll get shorter and shorter and shorter over time, which might be a catalyst as well.
I guess you can put this on the whole business, but as we think about B2B, is there a budget dynamic that factors into this? Is it a little different on the B2C versus the B2B side?
It's usually a cost savings thesis that gets it over the line. It's sort of like if we put this in, it's going to cost X and it's going to take out Y amount of manual costs, and then as you get deeper into that, obviously there's a TCO element of that. You get deeper into that as how can we also streamline our back office and our back-end systems? Can we sunset some of these ERPs on the back end and actually do this as part of that transformation, and then on top of it, how much more efficient can we make ourselves by way of the technology that will evolve into obviously AI? How can we acquire more customers? How can we make it better for the customers that we have?
How can we drive a more streamlined, more accurate process that again makes it better, cheaper, and faster? That's usually the thesis. On the B2C side, sometimes that's the thesis. Maybe it's a TCO. You're on a legacy platform looking to drive out cost. Years ago, it was more about features and functions and being able to go sell and convert faster at scale. A lot of times now, it really is how do I go map to the future state where I don't have, how do I become more composable and agile in my process where I don't have to rip and replace everything? I can do pieces and parts and still have that organizational agility to go where the market's going, like agentic right now. How do I do that and enable that without having to have this massive amount of disruption and cost associated with my business?
So maybe similar question, but B2C, there still is a lot of legacy footprint out there. How do you think about attacking that? Have those shared owners, in terms of their competitive positioning, has that changed at all?
It's changed a bit. I think it's still a large, there's still a large installed base of custom out there. And the reason it's so large is historically you've had this thesis of my business is so complicated, there's not an off-the-shelf software platform that can get me. There would be much easier to build it ourselves. And with that comes a DNA and almost a culture internally of builders. I think that gives an advantage to us just based on the composability and the openness and what Daniel alluded to earlier, being agnostic in a number of ways. It's a great framework by which to build against, but it's also a cultural hurdle with custom because you've got to overcome that change management.
And oftentimes with that change management, if you've got 100 FTEs maintaining this, you probably don't need 100 FTEs going forward, and you've got to overcome that cultural hurdle internally and get everybody kind of bought in, and something that by definition is complicated because they took a complicated business model, made it more complicated by building it custom. Maybe there's people who are there, they're not there. Maybe it's documented, maybe it's not. It's a much more challenging extrapolation of scope and definition to ensure that we're delivering, we're not compromising the business, and we're doing it in a way that would be responsible going forward.
But is there a security risk associated with that for them just in terms of legacy or I guess if they're maintaining all of it? I'm just thinking about smaller mid-mcvvvvvvvvarket merchants and their ability to keep up with all of this.
Yes, and that's an advantage of multi-tenant SaaS, frankly, almost no matter what platform you pick.
And maybe just, I know we're getting a lot of product stuff to discuss, but just in terms of your partner channel efforts, where has that evolved? And I know you're kind of touching on multiple different points, but we'd love to get an update there in terms of the partner efforts.
Yeah, I think on earnings, last earnings, we talked a little bit more about different distribution that's been in the works, particularly up market through GSIs. We're seeing obviously a great partnership with Accenture. I came out of Accenture. Certainly, I've got friends over there and history there. I understand how that machine works in a heavily matrixed model, which is an advantage certainly. But all of the agentic push, particularly with GSIs, is catalyzing transformation to what I alluded to earlier, as these branded manufacturers and retailers and even on the B2B side are needing to change. It's not just a software challenge. Certainly, we're providing a lot of that value, but it's also a transformation services challenge. And the GSIs happen to be in the best position to do that because they touch every part of that supply chain. They're not just touching the front office.
They're going all the way in the back office, in order orchestration, supply chain, and everything else, so they've got a great purview. They also tend to operate through existing customer relationships, so we've got a tremendous amount of overlap in shared customers between us and Accenture in this particular instance, so we're already working with customers, the same customers they're working with. They've got deep tentacles within that customer base. They understand it holistically, and so there's a very natural sort of engagement track there where Accenture can wrap their IP and their high-value capabilities around our capability and our solution, and it's just something that we're able to move faster with, deeper with, and drive more efficacy collectively, so that's been one of the big shifts, honestly, with all the agentic stuff, particularly up market.
You're starting to see that push down mid-market as smaller clients or mid-sized clients are also looking to go through the same thing. It's just a different looking third party. It's not a giant Accenture. It might be a mid-sized SI, as an example that's doing that.
Well, and you mentioned kind of up market versus down market. So Feedonomics is a really strong presence with large retailers. Talk about the product and the value proposition. Can that move a little bit more down market in terms, especially in this agentic AI era we're talking about?
Yeah, it's actually, we were just talking about this last night. It's probably the most exciting thing we've done in the last couple of months is actually get Microsoft Feedonomics Surface live. We're partnered with Microsoft, sorry. So that was the first self-service version of Feedonomics that actually when we bought the company, which predated me, what, four years ago, one of the original theses was to get a self-service version of it. Surface is that self-service version we launched with two channels two months ago. It was in beta for a while and it's the number one downloaded app. We're looking to very aggressively expand those channels, which is really exciting, and this is integrated natively within the BigCommerce platform install base.
So it's one of several kind of PLG motions that I kind of alluded to earlier where it's a freemium version right now with those first couple of channels. We'll look to expand that and obviously expand into the agentic channels as well, which is really exciting.
I know it's early, couple of months. Anything that you can share in terms of, I guess, downloads are positive, but anything that you can share in terms of early lessons learned or perspectives?
I would say the feedback has been really, really good. We want to get the paid channels out, I think, is a big thing. So I mean, for us, we wanted to get the connectors. Right now it has free connections with Meta and Google. But where we're going to make money and really, I think, differentiate on value is when we start adding more channels to that, which we have slated for Q1. But the customer feedback so far has been great, not just downloads, but active use and transactions flowing through. We're happy about it.
It may be so at your developer conference that the feedback on Makeswift was very positive. Maybe kind of expand, what are you hearing from customers there and how important is that product?
Yeah, just for the broader audience, I think we have a summit every year in all of our geographies, the biggest one being in North America. And I think the largest applause was announcing that Makeswift was going to run on our Stencil install base and replace the Page Builder product. So a lot of enthusiasm around that product. It's very visually appealing, best in class, it's also a design system. So it's all kind of drag and drop, very intuitive from a user experience perspective. Also very apropos in the agentic world, as I alluded to earlier, because it is all built in React. And so you're going to see a lot of data-driven experiences on and off-owned surfaces. They're going to be driven through React components. We feel like Makeswift is a phenomenal solution for that.
We also think it's going to be a great UI for brand and merchant agents as brands start building their own agents, interactive agents that are happening, again, on and off different services. We think that there's a lot of use cases and applicability for Makeswift that we'll be putting in play in 2026.
Maybe spend a little bit of time on the evolution of your payment strategy, partners, what you're offering there. How has that developed over the last year or so?
You start, you've got way more history than I do.
Yeah, so I mean, traditionally, our point of view on payments has been, we essentially have been a risk-free referrer over to our partners. We have kind of shied away from having a small list of partners that we really kind of focus on and recommend. That's changing. So if I think about it, we talked about this at our investor day back in March, but if there's kind of a spectrum on one far side, you've got the full payment service providers that are taking on all the know your customer and credit risk and all that kind of stuff. Might we go there in the future? Yes, that's not step one for us, but we'll see where it goes.
The opposite extreme is where we've been in the past, which was merely we're collecting a revenue share on referrals where we're landing with our branded payments product that we're launching at the end of Q1, beginning of Q2, is going to be essentially that we are functioning as a reseller. So we'll take reseller spread between the two. I think what we're really evolving under Travis's leadership and also under the leadership of Vipul Shah, our new Chief Product Officer as well, who comes from PayPal and the banking community actually as well, JP Morgan. Yeah, is really looking at this from the point of view to say, all right, how can we capture more incremental economics? Yes, but more importantly, I think deliver more of a seamless experience for customers.
This is an area, I think, transparently where there, yes, there's extra money to be made, but especially for, I would say, kind of the sweet spot of customer size on the platform, which is really mid-market for us. I mean, we have some large enterprise customers. We also have a lot of small businesses, but especially for the mid-market, if they don't have a lot of multi-market complexity, that may demand needing to be able to use multiple payments providers in multiple regions. But if you can get a more kind of seamless product experience, I think that can create more value for them.
We will always be agnostic to partner in that we'll let customers pick whoever they want, but we're going to be a lot more opinionated about who we would encourage them to use and how we go about encouraging them to use those partners to make it to where the customer's going to have a more seamless product experience and also we can capture incremental economics for shareholders.
And I know you talked about a longer-term growth reacceleration. Maybe kind of unpack as we think about some of these newer products or is it international? Maybe just can you kind of stack rank some of the growth drivers with maybe that longer-term lens? Less near term, but how would you interpret that?
Yeah, I mean, I would say not to give kind of a professor-ish answer on this one, but I want to answer this with a little bit of substance on this, not like sitting in a class, but I don't want to be hand-wavy about this. We're not growing fast enough. We're not growing fast enough for the capability and the potential of the company. We've talked about this openly on earnings calls. I think if you look at that relative to the amount of money that we're putting into the business, we're not getting the growth rate out of the business that we would expect based on the funding that we're putting in. So why is that the case? I think there's a few areas where, to be blunt, I think we've left some money on the table and how we can go about driving growth.
The number one area of focus for Travis and I as we're looking at the business is net revenue retention. This is not complicated. This is SaaS business models. It's been like this for a really long time. And we're kind of looking right down the list of all the initiatives saying, what can we launch that's not just good from a customer and a product perspective, but that's also better from the monetization model of the business as a whole? A couple of examples I would give payments obviously being one. And what does that mean in fintech in general? I think because we have other thoughts and things we'd like to expand in that area.
But in addition, I think if you look at where we've really been focusing and spending a lot of time has been in going quote unquote up market, at least on the platform side of things, and primarily through a sales rep-driven model. We recently increased sales capacity, which I think was a good decision. Even still though, if you look at where we're at from kind of a sales and marketing expense point of view, we think there's some opportunity to get more efficient and how that can work so that we can drive ultimately better returns for shareholders. But in these initiatives that we're launching, we very much have an eye on this saying, how is this going to affect the expansion and retention of the base?
And by doing so, when we talk about product-led growth models, again, this has been normal in SaaS for a really long time. We actually haven't had a whole lot of those types of models within the business. Some of our competitors, I would argue, have been much better at that than how we've been running the business. And so we want to be introducing products that are better experiences for customers, but have baked-in product-led monetization models as a part of those so that we can get our cost of acquisition down, get a lot more efficient on growth, and kind of raise the minimum growth rate of the business by really doubling down and focusing on NRR and what's going on with the current core customer.
Maybe just hit on enterprise a little bit in the focus there. What are you seeing from some of your largest merchants, both from an existing perspective and then as you think about net new?
Yeah, I think the largest merchants are focused very front and center on agentic, obviously. That's the big focus right now. But to Daniel's point, that wasn't terribly professorial.
It wasn't?
No, it wasn't.
I don't want you to accuse me of pedantic.
No. But to Daniel's point earlier, so there's a lot of motion and movement, obviously, on the agentic front. What we're trying to do there, I mean, there's 20 different SKUs we could ship within agentic right now. That's how much opportunity there is. I think the science for us is having a prioritization framework to make sure that we're focusing on what is most monetizable sooner rather than later and what's most monetizable across the entire install base, not just a small subset of our TAM and enterprise. Those folks tend to think differently. There's still a lot of things being figured out commercially in the market as these answer engines figure out their commercial strategies. And every week there's a new news article, Perplexity is getting sued and that's going to change their model. Or is OpenAI going to bring in advertisements and like.
We're not opining on Perplexity's legal liability.
No, we're not opining on any of it. We partner with.
That's professorial.
Yeah, they're fine. But the point in all of this is the rules of the internet are being rewritten right in front of us. The commercial models are all changing. The merchants are all trying to figure out where they want to place bets. And I think right now the safest bet is discoverability. We feel like we have an amazing product market fit in Feedonomics, independent of size, independent of industry. It's about being part of these contextualized conversations. How that evolves into shopping and what the commercial model is with that shopping, whether it's happening on our service or somebody else's service and who's monetizing it, that's still up for grabs. And I think brands are not sold on that being good for brands or good for consumers. I think the jury's still out.
This came out at a really weird time, like right before the most complicated time of the year and the busiest time of the year. So this will happen through holiday. It will be, in my opinion, mediocre at best from a shopping experience. And then I think there'll be a long runway next year as people build up to the next big sort of seasonality push. And we'll see where the technology is 10 months from now.
And maybe just lastly, as you think about all these opportunities that you have, how do we kind of balance the investment posture in terms of kind of reinvesting in growth versus margin expansion and kind of use of cash? What are the priorities there?
Yeah, I would say priority one, two, and three is shareholder returns. So our whole framework and how we're going to be looking at that is what is the best way that we think this is going to be a good outcome for shareholders? Every company is going to say that, of course they are. But what I mean specifically in looking at that is we want and need to deliver better growth than where we've been, not at any cost. We need to make sure that we're dialing in where we are applying our capital so that we can get an acceptable growth rate out of what we are spending and be in a position that we can return more profit and cash to shareholders at the same time. We think that we can do both of those things. We haven't finalized our plans for next year.
I'm not getting into conversation about guidance and what all that's going to look like. We'll get to that once we get to tail end of January or early February. But as we're building out plans and talking them through with the board, our laser focus is saying, okay, the potential of the business is gigantic. There's a lot of things that we are working on to say, look, basic blocking and tackling, focusing on retention and expansion of the base and guiding capital towards the product investments that are going to yield not just a good merchant experience, but better economics for shareholders. I don't think that we've done those two things together as well as we could have. And just to be really frank too, we're not going to be acquisitive. We're not out looking at a bunch of M&A.
Based on where we're trading right now, doing anything with equity is prohibitively dilutive. So we're not interested in doing anything like that. We'll do normal build versus buy stuff, but we're really just focused on organic execution and improving NRR and delivering better growth rates.
Great. That's all the time we have. Thanks, guys.
All right.
Thanks.
Sounds good.