Good afternoon. Alok Matapurkar, Managing Director, Tech Investment Banking, JP Morgan. Thrilled to have our guests here, Concentrix Corporation, global leader in digital CX. Joining us today are Chris Caldwell, CEO, and Andre Valentine, CFO. Welcome, guys.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for having us.
I thought maybe we could start with, having you provide a brief introduction and overview of the company.
Sure, I'd be glad to do that. Thanks again for having us. Concentrix Corporation, we are a leading global provider of customer experience solutions. With, in 2022, we had roughly $6.3 billion in revenue, generated over $1 billion in adjusted EBITDA, and nearly $500 million in free cash flow. We serve over 130 of the Fortune Global 500 brands. We've been investing in capabilities to not only run the CX solutions for these clients, but to help them design and build the CX solutions. That's really being able to do that at scale, we see as a meaningful differentiator for us versus our traditional peers. It's a really, really exciting time for us at Concentrix.
About 2 months ago, we announced the combination with Webhelp, who is based in Paris, France. They are in their own right, a leading CX provider with nearly $3 billion in revenue expected in 2023, and a very impressive over 10% revenue compound annual growth rate over the past 5 years, and that's all organic. Strong capabilities, particularly in Europe, Latin America, and Africa that they bring to the mix, and a very, very strong client list with very limited overlap versus what we have at Concentrix. On a combined basis, 2023 revenues for the two companies will be nearly $10 billion, and combined EBITDA will be about $1.6 billion on an adjusted basis.
The combination really puts us in a position where we have great revenue diversification, with nearly 1/3 of each of our revenue coming from the Americas, from EMEA, and from Asia Pacific. Finally, I'll just wrap up. This is a very, very attractive financial profile for investors. We expect accretion in year one to be mid to high single digits, and achieving double-digit EPS accretion by year two. That's kind of an overview of the company and some of the recent developments we're very excited about, and we'll turn it back to you for questions.
Great. Andre, you mentioned Webhelp, so maybe that's a good place to start. Can you share any background of the deal and what attracted you to this particular company versus other alternatives? How does it position the company stronger in the competitive landscape, the combined company?
For sure, Alok. From our perspective, we've talked to investors for the last two years about the requirements to build out more of our footprint in Europe and to continue to strengthen our footprint in Latin America. When we looked at all of the competitors in that space, one competitor that continued to come up above all the others in terms of capability, domain knowledge, least amount of overlap was Webhelp. Frankly, they weren't a seller, and it took us a long time to kind of work through a way that we combine the two businesses that would drive value for the organizations.
Our thesis for what we thought would happen has really translated into conversations with clients after we've announced the acquisition and combination of the two companies coming together, is the fact that they get access to a now European footprint for Concentrix clients, and that the Webhelp clients get access to an Asia Pac, North American footprint. We also build a very strong Latin American footprint and open up an African footprint for us. Very, very excited about how the two organizations are gonna come together.
Any update on progress of the transaction? When do you expect to close?
For sure. As we've talked about, we are thinking about the back half of this year. We're still on progress for that and planning. We started sort of the discussions around how to do the integration, clearly through the clean room process. We're making good progress from that perspective, and we're working on our proxy, to come out and, certainly believe that we're on the timeline that we indicated when we first announced the acquisition.
Zooming out a little bit, Chris, you've always talked about consolidation of the space. You did this transaction. We saw Teleperformance acquire Majorel. What is driving that, and do you expect this to continue in the future?
We certainly believe that the industry is gonna continue to consolidate. Our thesis is that there's going to be a few global players, of which we plan to be one, sort of + $10 billion and growing, and then there's gonna be a number of boutiques that are smaller in, let's say, call the $500 million-$1 billion range. Really there's nothing left in the middle, and that's primarily because clients are looking for deeper relationships with fewer partners. They're looking for more capabilities from those partners, and the barriers to entry are increasing, not only from a compliance perspective, regulatory perspective, security perspective, that you need that critical scale to be able to make the investments. Really, that client buying behavior, we don't see changing. We just see increasing.
Speaking of client behavior, you know, you've talked about how in tough macro backdrops you see a focus on cost cutting, you see vendor consolidation. What are you seeing, in terms of client behavior in this environment? Also, second part to that question, are you seeing a difference across verticals that you serve?
Yeah. First off, you are correct. When you see a sustained period of down economic cycle, you tend to get clients who start to think about their cost structure, and they look at consolidating partners during that time period. They look at outsourcing more during that time period. They might look at, you know, retaining some work in-house to keep some muscle memory. Long and short of it is when you get that sustained down ramp, you get that decisions around how they're going to work with their partners more. Historically, we've always benefited from that, and we expect to benefit from that. There's always that transition period time that we're going through right at the moment where clients are kind of making those decisions.
We look at verticals, you know, primarily it's what you'd expect with consumption type of impact on macroeconomics. We see impact in retails being down, e-commerce is being much lighter. Consumer electronics demand is not as robust as what you would expect and what you had sort of 6 or 7 months ago. The outlier is travel. Regardless of what's going on in the macroeconomic areas, people are traveling, people are spending money on travel, that still seems to be very robust. Other things that are doing generally well, banking. Traditional banks are continuing to figure out how to change their dynamic from a cost to serve. That's benefiting us. Healthcare companies continue to benefit us. It's a bit of a mix, overall, as you'd expect as we go through these times.
Topic du jour, GenAI. What do you see in terms of the impact on the industry? Do you see it as an opportunity, as a threat, or both?
Yeah. Actually, we see it as an opportunity. You know, it's funny, to us it's been something that's just the evolution of the tools that are out there. I think to investors, this is the first time they've actually been able to interact with technology that has a change for them. When investors heard about RPA many years ago, they're kind of go, "Okay, that's kind of interesting. It's B2B." Now, investors can actually see how Chat AI can interact. From an industry perspective, we've always been focused about automating our business and automating our clients' business. 'Cause to us, it's not about volume, it's about value, and there's quite a difference.
We expect that it will impact some volume, but we believe that we'll be able to increase the value much like we've done with RPA, much like we've done with, you know, driving mobile app applications and all sorts of other work that we do. We do also expect that it will be far more beneficial for driving better productivity and better proficiency from a staffing perspective, more so and first, which isn't gonna have as much impact on revenue by any stretch of the imagination. We also think what people are underestimating is that these things don't run on their own. They require a lot of services that go along with it, from consulting, from implementation services, to the management of making sure that the systems don't hallucinate, to making sure that they're delivering the right answers all the time.
All of those are frankly margin-rich opportunities for us because we're the last mile with that client to develop those services for the clients. That's really what we're seeing and how clients are engaging with us right now, is understanding how to put and implement the technology.
Chris, any specific examples that pop to mind in any verticals? 'Cause you've been talking about automation and AI for some time now. In terms of what you're already doing or what clients have begun to ask you to do.
Yeah. Let's separate that a little bit. From an AI perspective, we've been using AI more machine learning for probably the last year and a half to 2 years. We've got very good demonstrable examples of where we've implemented it into our systems and implemented it into our processes and seen real tangible benefits.
Probably the biggest one is how we've automated a significant amount of our QA, where you used to have people kind of look at 10%, 15% of the transactions and make sure that they were, you know, up to the right standards and doing the right things to where now we can actually look at 100% of the transactions and give client sentiment, give feedback to customers about problems with their products or processes. We've been able to do this without increasing our head count at all and actually bring our head count down in the QA function, and we have it deployed across tens of thousands of desktops.
You know, over 50,000 desktops, we've got it deployed on. That's going very well and we're gonna continue to roll that out. GenAI, slightly different. Higher cost model, right? Every query to a large language model has an impact of a cost. Right now, a lot of people are trying to figure out what that cost model is, how it's gonna scale, and can it be more accurate. Where we're seeing clients really getting interested is saying, "Can we search the knowledge base faster and get better information back to our staff who are handling the customer interaction in a more efficient manner?" They're more interested in that. Think of clients that have large knowledge bases. Healthcare companies are a great example.
If you've ever tried to phone a healthcare company up and ask about your medical benefits in the US, you know that you're normally put on hold a few times, or the chat will say, "Let me look this up for a little bit." All of a sudden, you can get that contextual information back a lot faster and then have that interaction with that advisor. We see real benefit in that and some good POCs in the healthcare space. Similarly, believe it or not, in travel and transportation. When you're dealing with an airline and you're looking at all the rules and regulations of fare classes and changes and visa registration, all sorts of stuff that you can imagine, we've got some good POCs around how to do that and how to interact with those knowledge bases.
Same with training, speeding up with training. We've got some good POCs from that perspective with, Generative AI. Very, very excited. In terms of the interaction with a live customer, we have clients who are trying to figure out the best way of doing it, but no client is prepared to risk their brand until they know that every single answer is accurate and not gonna get them into trouble and not end up on the front page of the newspaper. That is certainly some time away.
That, you know, that's a key question also for me, which is, you know, there's regulation, there's governance risk, you know, security. You mentioned hallucination. What are you sensing in terms of the rate of adoption by clients en masse of GenAI specifically?
Yeah, we see it as being very slow. This is the first time that a technology has come out where clients have actually put the brakes on, where we talk to clients and say, "Would you like to try this?" They say, "Look, we've gotta figure this out first. We've gotta figure out how to make sure that the integrity of our brand is protected, that the integrity of information is protected when it's impacting the customer directly." We think that some of the adoption will actually be in replacing chatbots and other types of older technology that's not giving as much contextual impact to the customers. We see that as coming along first, more so than any wholesale change that's coming along.
Again, it goes back to that driving of productivity and proficiency, where we see a lot more interest and a lot more value to the brands.
Is it too early to have a point of view on the financial impact of GenAI specifically, or are you beginning to form a view, at least in areas in which it will drive maybe margins up, maybe giving revenue up?
We, we see it from this perspective, and it's really along 3 different areas. The first is historically how automation has impacted our financials. Generally, what happens is that there is some, you know, revenue erosion because you're taking a, let's say, a $1 transaction, for lack of a better term, as an example, and cutting it down because it's all technology-based. From a margin dollar perspective, we actually see it increasing pretty significantly because there's a lot less cost to produce that revenue. Automation to us has been, frankly, very, very profitable and one of the reasons we've been able to raise our operating income margin pretty significantly over the last number of years. Expect that to be very, very healthy.
The second thing that we look at from a Generative AI perspective is the actual cost of delivering Generative AI. It's more expensive than people realize. Where people think it'll hit the lower value transactions first, the reality is that on our models that we've seen, you can still do things cheaper with people offshore than you can with Generative AI on a lot of the basic transactions. People don't necessarily realize that until they start getting into the cost models of paying for the tokens and everything else, and the infrastructure that goes along with it. We think that'll be delayed a little bit. Again, when it comes through, if stuff is already being done offshore, it'll have a lower impact to revenue and sort of similar to higher margin dollar impact.
If stuff has been doing onshore and being replaced with it'll have more of an impact to revenue, but a significantly better impact to gross margin dollars on the back end, which is clearly what we're continuing to try and drive from a margin profile perspective, as we go through. The last, sort of, economics that we look at in terms of our model that we think is very, very beneficial is what I talked about before. All these additional services around how we deliver generative AI, the consulting, implementing it, keeping it running, giving feedback loop back to the clients. As we've done that in other parts of our business, that's been very, very good for us. We expect to see all this new incremental revenue that comes through that we don't even have now, that will add to our growth.
Chris Caldwell, I would add, you haven't even touched on the opportunities for our cost base. There's some meaningful costs that frankly clients don't really see, but have to be there to have an advisor or brand ambassador have a good interaction with a, with a, with a customer. We're talking here about the training, the quality monitoring, the scheduling, and all those types of things. Those are meaningful monthly costs that we have. Can we automate all of that? No. Can we reduce the cost there a bit? I think we absolutely can, that will... I think those benefits will largely accrue, to us.
Yeah. Look, one thing that we haven't necessarily talked about, and I'm not sure investors always appreciate, is that we've continually focused on driving automation within our business as we've talked about, helping us to drive up our margin profile. As we've done that, what we've found is that clients as a whole look to outsource more to us because we're more efficient and gain better efficiencies over time by driving this automation. While there might be initial impact from a revenue perspective, you generally gain from it because you're getting more of the volume from the clients that they wanna outsource.
As you drive more efficiency, more productivity, do you see an impact on, you know, changes in contract structures? You know, more outcome-based versus time and materials, more fixed price and so on. This may, by the way, be happening regardless of GenAI, but maybe especially because of.
Yeah. I think some of that is continuing to evolve. We continue to talk about outcomes-based pricing becoming a little more popular. It's certainly not anywhere near a material amount of our revenue. A material amount of our revenue is still tied to some sort of transactional nature, but we do get more people kind of interested in it. I think economically, what it changes is that the benefits of automation don't flow all to us. The clients also participate in that benefit, either driving lower cost of operations or you know, other types of lower cost structures around doing it. That's absolutely fair, but we always similarly benefit from it as well, and we see that continuing on with GenAI and everything else that comes along from an automation perspective.
As you think about leveraging GenAI, do you have the people that you would need? Would you look outside?
That's a great question, and that's where we think we are very, very differentiated. We made an acquisition, you know, a year ago of PK, which was a professional IT services firm. We literally have thousands upon thousands of engineers and consultants and analytics folks who have been very quickly been able to get involved in the Generative AI conversation because we've been doing AI/ ML, we've been doing data lakes and analytics already, we've been doing the journey mapping consulting already. Now at scale, we can deliver these services to folks who wanna start building in GenAI into their ecosystem and customer journeys.
Great. Let me pause at this point, and then we will certainly keep going to see if there's any questions from the audience as well. Puneet.
Puneet from JP Morgan. Thanks for doing this. A quick question, a follow-up questions on what you just said. Like, the... Who's responsible for creating and training a AI -based model within the company? Is it like the tech team that you talked about, like the 1,000+ people? Or are you also training your project managers and essentially all employees so they can think and create solutions as it relates to generative AI?
Yeah, that's a great question. Within our organization, we have thousands of, we call them innovators that are within our organization through operations, back office, everything else. Some will be tech, some will be operationally orientated, some will be Six Sigma experts from a process perspective. They're always thinking about ways to improve, you know, what we do and deliver for our clients, and we get scored on that from an innovation perspective. Once they come up with an idea, then we go to our engineers and our kind of consultants focused on that about how do we actually implement these ideas? How do we actually operationalize them and drive them into the business? We have that throughout our entire organization.
When it comes to sort of the development engineers, it's not like 1,000 or two, it's like literally, you know, when we think of our technical services capabilities, it's well over 10,000 individuals that have this domain experience that can deliver on these solutions that are coming up to speed on GenAI. Our POCs, we've got multiple POCs in place with clients of looking at how does this work? What can we do? The other part of the question you talked about in terms of training the models, which I think is equally important. The way we look at it is that large language models out there in the public domain can answer about 85%, and have contextual understanding, but can't give accuracy and can't necessarily do it without hallucinations.
Where we feel that we play is sort of our own language model above that's more brand specific and domain specific that we can control and has sort of that extra 15% of accuracy to give the confidence to our clients that we're delivering to their spec, to their regulations, to their compliance that goes along with it. The training of that model and the development of that model, clearly technical teams developing the language model to do it, we also have the operational people to train that model because we handle literally billions of transactions a year to kind of feed those models to make them more and more accurate. Revenue generation opportunity for us and a differentiator for why someone would come and work with us versus others who don't have access to that proprietary data.
Any other questions from the audience? Do you expect this dynamic to change the onshore, offshore mix for you and, you know, other industry participants over time?
Not necessarily. The reality is that in our business, there's always work, whether it be from a regulatory perspective or again, a compliance perspective that needs to be done onshore. Then there's some clients from a brand perspective that want to be aligned to delivering onshore. What we think is that evenly as work moves back and forth from economic conditions or regulatory conditions or brand conditions, the same things are gonna happen and a same percentage is gonna get automated regardless of whether it's nearshore, onshore or offshore. That's not gonna necessarily be the driver of it.
Chris, speaking of delivery, what are you now seeing in terms of both wage inflation, attrition? You heard attrition rates have come down now versus what we've seen just, you know, a few months ago.
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, obviously COVID drove attrition rates way, way down. As sort of things started opening up, attrition rates started coming up a little bit, never back to where it was sort of pre-COVID levels. Again, over the last number of months, attrition levels have started going down, primarily because, you know, there's been a lot of people talking about layoffs and everything else. People are looking from a security perspective of having engagement. Certainly with us and obviously with other companies, just in terms of security. I think that's what we can offer to our staff. We've seen that come down.
We've also seen sort of supply of talent of some of the higher end tech talent really open up where we talked about in earnings calls, you know, two years ago, two and a half years ago, about really a hard time getting high-end tech talent. Now frankly, that high-end tech talent is quite available, relatively robust in multiple markets. That's also allowing us to scale things that probably would've been more challenging two years ago.
You know, any thoughts on how all that plays into longer term margin pressure or margin expansion?
You know, from our perspective, what's gonna drive our margin expansion is really more automation, really more getting into the adjacent markets that we talked about, whether it be consulting, the analytics that go along with some of our IT service offerings that kind of go along from that perspective. All of that's gonna drive a bigger margin perspective. Wage either stable wage or lack of inflationary increases, because we're not seeing as much wage pressure as there was, let's say, call it a year ago, when I think we had called out a number of times that there was much more wage pressure in North America and Europe. That's not materially gonna change our margin profile. It's more the services that we're offering and the automation that we're driving that we believe can continue to increase our margins.
Certainly the synergies from the Webhelp combination will help as well as we bring that, those two companies together. Our synergy target there is $120 million by year 3 on our combined business, which I described earlier as being roughly $10 billion. A meaningful opportunity for us there as well.
Great.
Chris, you mentioned PK. Can we talk a little bit about the digital IT/engineering side of things? Big growth area, but, you know, if you look at what public peers are saying, a little bit of, you know, rough and tumble out there this year. What trends are you seeing in your business, and any thoughts on Catalyst generally?
I think we're seeing sort of similar things as some of our peers have called out. Large multi-year projects that were kind of ground up transformational projects generally have slowed down because people are, you know, measuring twice before they sign off on it. They're really making sure that they've got the budget for it. They're looking at seeing if they can push it a quarter here and there, or they're trying to more peanut butter spread it than any kind of big scale-up. We are seeing sort of that much more managed understanding of people's cost structures before jumping into it, which I think probably you saw, you know, a year or two years ago when significantly higher growth rates. We're definitely seeing that.
What we're really happy about is we're starting to see a lot more green shoots of where we're doing those IT services, but they're infused in our operation programs for delivering a integrated offering to clients. Instead of people just saying, "Hey, we want some services," it's we want the solution that is Catalyst Services as well as our CX services, and that's really exciting. That was our thesis for doing the PK acquisition. We're starting to see that play out. Smaller deal structures to begin with, but we believe that will grow over time. Super, super excited about what we're seeing from that perspective.
We also think that, you know, from a supply of talent perspective, because we are able to get sort of talent in more robust ways and in different market ways, that'll also help us improve our margin profile over time in that space as we're able to rebalance. When we did the acquisition, we had a lot more onshore of that talent versus offshore, and now we're kind of getting more balanced to where we would be by growing our offshore opportunities with talent.
You know, on that note, we've seen the sort of traditional lines blurring between BPO, CX, IT, in part due to, you know, some of the plays you made, including, of course, PK. Do you see more of that? You know, as a corollary to that, which parts do you see growing more? Do you see everything growing together as you're describing all intermeshed, or do you see more growth in one area versus the other?
Yeah. We believe it goes back to how clients want to purchase. We continue to see clients want to purchase a solution, the more they can give to one partner from an end-to-end, they get more value out of it because it's less moving parts, it's less management overhead from their perspective. Also, when you connect all these kind of disparate pieces within a supply chain and bring them together, you tend to just be able to optimize it a lot more. We continue to see this focus on driving it, and we've certainly seen it. We've also seen within the last, you know, couple of years, a very much more key focus on the CX experience from a brand perspective.
We see a lot more CEOs who appreciate, hey, a good customer experience drives longer engagement with their customers, lower cost of, you know, keeping those customers, lower cost of acquisition of new customer, you know, on and on and on and on and on. Similarly, bad experience can impact that. We're seeing this renewed interest of driving a better customer experience, and that customer experience is no longer that last contact. It's about that whole ecosystem about supporting that customer experience. Like, is the back-end office able to process what they need to process as fast as they can to make that instant response back to that customer? Is the IT system supporting what that customer wants to do in a frictionless manner? Those require all these other adjacent capabilities that we've been building out.
We do believe that this offering and this whole ability to deliver a complete ecosystem process end-to-end is very, very compelling. We see it as differentiated in our space because few players, if any, can really do it end-to-end.
Is it fair to say that you're seeing clients, you know, pose a problem and you're leveraging all the various solutions you have to solve that problem versus clients saying, "I want engineering or I want CX"?
We're seeing more of those conversations turning the complete solution. It's not starting off to saying, "I'm looking for a complete solution." It's more people saying, "If I needed to reduce my cost structure by 10%, 15%, how could I do it? If I need to reduce my churn of customers, how would I do it? If I need to drive revenue at this rate, how would I do it?" Well, these are the building blocks in order to complete it. Maybe it's some, you know, journey mapping from a consulting perspective. Maybe it's an analytical project to look at sort of the defects of where your processes are breaking. Maybe it's IT services to kind of connect the parts. Maybe it's RPA to kind of drive some automation.
Maybe it's a onshore, nearshore, offshore mix of your service delivery capabilities. All sorts of things go into it. The client looks at that of what it will deliver to their consumers and says, "Yeah, that's the solution I want." It's a much more sort of organic discussion than someone coming out and saying, "I'm looking for a total solution." Those, you know, not that common. It's more this kind of organic, bringing all the capabilities together and understanding what the business solution or problem is and delivering a total solution to combat that.
Got it. Let me pause here at the 4 minutes mark to see if there's any questions from the audience at all. Webcast as well. I'll just keep going then. Chris, zooming out, what are areas that you think will drive growth in the industry? What are areas that most excite you and therefore are driving some of your investment decisions as you think about growth for the next 5, 10 years even?
Certainly GenAI we think is gonna drive growth and that's obviously top of mind, so we continue to see a lot of opportunities with that and we'll be making investments in that space. We also see sort of more capabilities along some of our verticals as very, very interesting to us. Digital marketing and how to drive revenue for our clients becoming more and more important and top of mind, certainly in these economic times. We made an acquisition of ServiceSource in that space. Webhelp brings some capabilities in that space, and so we'll be one of the few players globally who can drive real revenue management, channel management, and frankly, revenue growth for our clients across a number of different industries. That's very, very exciting, and you'll see us continue to make investments in that.
We continue to see sort of the next layer of analytics being a very, very interesting area. We're building the data lakes now. We're doing some very, you know, rich and robust modeling in certain sectors. We're not doing it across all sectors 'cause you need a lot of domain knowledge to do it. We see opportunities to invest and build that out. We're seeing increased demand for fraud, you know, prevention. Fraud prevention is across all of our clients, across all of their channels, across all of their processes. You'll see us continue to make investments in those areas that I think will drive considerable amount of growth.
We've got some traditional, you know, areas of growth like content moderation, where even though AI has been in that for, gosh, now two, three years, four years, all of the large companies that are the platforms that need this content moderation done are saying AI has gotten to the land of diminishing returns. You can't get any better than where it's at. With the growth of content, you're still gonna require these folks who are needed to interact and develop and design and train the models and actually manage the content as it goes. We see some traditional areas of just pure growth that's going along. The last area that we continue to see is that clients are becoming more and more focused on giving more of the process to an outsourcer.
If you think about 25%-30% of the market of available services to be outsourced is outsourced, you know, and getting to 25%-30% has been 30 years, and how big that market is, we suspect that as that continues to chunk up, more and more available market comes to us that we'll be able to participate in.
Chris, I might just add, and this is maybe more of a nearer term thing, not this year, but after we close the Webhelp transaction, just the excitement on... and the client set of being able to, you know, sell across the two footprints to clients of the other side as we come together. We didn't model any revenue synergies in any of the work that we did on the transaction, but we know they're there. We feel that will be another driver for us, at least in the medium term.
Excellent. We have about a minute left. Chris, our favorite last question is, you know, anything about Concentrix that you feel, you know, investors maybe don't understand perfectly or you feel misunderstood or misconceptions out there if you'd like to set the record straight?
That's a great question. From our perspective, what.
I stole it from Tien-tsin Huang and Puneet, by the way.
There you go. Look, from our perspective, what most investors don't appreciate is the type of value we add to our clients. People kind of think of contact center as somewhat being low value. The reality is that when we look at our Voice business, the engagement, the type of interactions that are needed from a compliance and regulatory perspective, as well as just sort of the complexity that it's dealing with, continue to get longer and longer and more valuable to our clients and revenue per interaction continues to go up for us, which is somewhat the things that don't appreciate. The second thing is that, sorry, investors don't appreciate the breadth of services we offer for our clients.
We're getting more and more of our revenue across this whole end-to-end solution set. That's driving sort of a margin, better margin conversation, a better stickiness conversation, and a better growth profile conversation with our clients. We've called out very clearly that 10% of our business is quite commoditized. That's continuing to go down. It was 13% a year ago, it's 10% now. We'll continue to drive it down. You'll see us invest and spend more in this much more stickier, engaged, higher margin rich business that will continue to drive our growth. You know, we're very, very confident we'll be able to continue to execute on this path.
Excellent. There was a question from the webcast actually that just popped up, but, let me see if I can pull it up. It vanished.
I'll say, look.
I guess it was answered.
This is the customer experience of technology, of why we always know we'll be in business, 'cause you can't bring it up.
AI can't do it.
I know.
Excellent. Anything else from the audience at all? Great. I think we're set. Chris and Andre, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to have you. Look forward to having you again next year.
Perfect. Thank you very much, everybody.