Afternoon, everyone. Robbie Marcus, the Medtech Analyst at JP Morgan. Really happy to present our next speaker, Damien McDonald, CEO of Enovis, along with Ben Berry, the CFO. Damien and Ben are going to do a presentation, and I'll come up and we'll do some Q&A afterwards.
Beautiful.
Gentlemen.
Thanks, Robbie. Thanks for being here, everyone. My name is Damien. I'm the CEO. I've been with Enovis now for about six months, so I'm looking forward to some engaging questions. Ben and I will do a little tag team, talk to you about the company, and then let's spend as much time as we can on Q&A and be very interactive with us. Standard forward-looking safe harbor statement, so you can read that at your leisure. Let's talk a little bit about Enovis. We're an orthopedics company, but orthopedics with a focus on mobility and the whole continuum of care. I'll come to that in a minute because it's been a journey as we've built this company over the last sort of five-ish years through a series of 20+ acquisitions. We're around about $2 billion in revenue. We're growing around about 6%± .
We just raised our guidance on EBITDA and EPS this morning. And if you think about the business, it's roughly 50/50 orthopedics implants and prevention and recovery, and it's roughly 50/50 international and US. And it's been a journey to build this, and we're looking forward to telling you that story. Growing the company has been about really building out the Recon portfolio, and the way that that's done has really morphed us into some high-growth subsections of the Recon market. At the same time as taking a market-leading position in the prevention and recovery, the DonJoy brand is something that you may all know. Roughly 100% of the top 25 college football teams use our braces. Nearly all the NFL teams use our braces. So that brand is really well known, and that was the jump-off point for us building the business.
With these 20+ acquisitions now, we're very focused on a few things: getting the commercial execution really embedded, bringing together all of those family of companies. We've got different operating systems, different methodologies, different vibes, different metabolic rates. We're really now very focused on commercial execution and driving the innovation engine. We have a history of Enovis Growth Excellence. The business system looks a lot like lean, and as we've built the company, we've now got this opportunity to put lean across the entire enterprise, and the third thing we need to do is really focus on financial discipline. We've got real work to do in gross margin, real work to do in the shaping of the middle of the P&L, and a lot of focus on free cash flow generation. Ben will talk about that in a minute.
Here's how to think about the growth, including all the M&A. We're growing at about 12%, ex-M&A around about 6% core. And we think that's a really robust and constant number for us to focus on in terms of, are we a growth company, and the answer's yes. At the same time, we've also done, I think, some really great work in improving margins. We've gone from 14-ish% to about 18-ish%. We see a pathway to 20%. Again, we can talk about that in Q&A, but it's a company that's growing and improving its leverage. Some of these names may be familiar to you, but this is how we've transformed the company, and we think that the important aspect of this is it's been very thoughtful, it's been very planned, and it's been very much about shaping towards higher growth markets where we've got clinical differentiation.
And as a result of that, we've morphed the company into a much higher growth profile. So, for example, the P&R business now is 50% mid-single digit from a low single-digit company. And you can see here the red, the high-growth categories, particularly the extremities, are a much, much greater percentage of the business too. And we continue to see that as a prime opportunity for where our growth will continue. As I said at the start, we've also morphed our portfolio in terms of our geographic exposure. And we were predominantly a U.S.-based company until we bought LimaCorporate in 2024. And now we've really morphed into a global company, global footprint, global capabilities, particularly in materials and particularly in talent. And we think, again, this is a real opportunity for us in terms of the long-term growth of the company. So where are we focused looking forward?
After all of these acquisitions, embedding a one Enovis mindset, we think this collaboration, teamwork is key to ensuring we have focused execution. Again, as you might suspect, with a lot of acquisitions, you have a lot of different DNA. We think we've got this opportunity now to focus on ensuring that we've got a one-team focus, an enterprise focus. The way to do that also looks at shaping our operating model and making sure that we have an efficient and coherent operating model. We're doing a lot of work on that right now with the moves that I've just made with some of the leadership team over the last three or four months. And then, as I said, embedding this DNA of continuous improvement and lean. EGX is part of how we work, but we've got lots of opportunity, and I can see pockets of excellence.
Having spent a number of years at Danaher, I know what good looks like, and I know we have good in a number of places. We just need to template and replicate that across the rest of the organization. What I love about the way this will go is I see the enthusiasm of the organization to take hold of this opportunity and really embed the system across the whole group. I mentioned mobility health. I think there are three arcs to the longevity conversation that we're all having. It's gut health, it's brain health, and it's mobility. And I think we're uniquely positioned to take advantage of supporting that for patients and clinicians. And we do, from prevention through diagnosis and planning, implants and surgery, recovery, and then full mobility. And each part of our portfolio has a core part to play with that.
Particularly as we think about workflow efficiency and how clinics are supporting patients, we've got real practical expertise in revenue cycle management and the MotionMD portfolio of SaaS products supporting clinical application of products in clinics, so not only are we selling and growing our product base, but we really see a service base evolving here as well, just briefly on the two product portfolios. Recon, about $1 billion, again, about 50/50 international and U.S., really interestingly, we have, I think, market-leading clinically differentiated products. We were one of the first orthopedic companies to talk about kinematic knee alignment. The EMPOWR Knee is really powerful. We have our own ceramic capability, which is almost unique to the industry. We have 3D printing capability, which is very powerful, and we can talk more about that in Q&A, and so I think our portfolio here is robust and poised for considerable growth.
The way we're going to continue to do that is by supporting innovation. We don't have to hit home runs. We need lots of singles and doubles, and I think that's the way our portfolio has been evolving very strongly. Last year, we posted more 510(k)s than we ever have in our history. We think that will continue to read through with the way our innovation pipeline is evolving. We also have this opportunity in commercial excellence, which I think is something that we can use through EGX, but also, as I mentioned, the evolution of products and services we already have in the P&R business into the ASC on the surgical side. And as we see in the US more and more procedures and clinicians working in ASCs with the funding models changing, we think this is a competitive advantage for us.
Lastly, we've made changes in the way we do our R&D, and I'm particularly excited about the way that will evolve over the next few years. Similarly, we're taking a market-leading position in the P&R business. The growth of the portfolio has improved considerably, as I mentioned upfront, and that's due to the brand loyalty we have around things like DonJoy and Aircast. Also, as we move into Spinalogic and the Manafuse products for bone stimulation, we see a much higher growth, higher gross margin portfolio. What I'd like you to take away from this is that we're growing. We're growing in spaces that are higher growth markets, and we're growing in places where we're more profitable. The aspect of P&R that I think is really powerful is just how much free cash flow it generates. It's hugely cash generative.
It supports the business in terms of our ability to invest in the higher capital-required orthopedics business in implants. But we also have these opportunities to grow into places for services that I think are unique to the industry where ASCs, as I said, are evolving using MotionMD, and that capability, I think, is very exciting for us. So I talked about innovation. This is just to give you a quick snapshot of the number of products that we've launched over the last three-ish years. And the fact that we're really early in the cycle of commercial release for a number of these, I think, puts us in a great place going forward in the next two or three years with our organic growth. Why don't I throw it over to you, Ben, just talk about some cash?
So we've been doing a lot to transform the company over the last several years. If you think about where we've been, we spun Colfax into a pure-play medtech player back in 2022, separated ESAB out. So between separation of the company and 20+ acquisitions over the last several years, we've been in a heavy integration mode. And integration is expensive, especially as you're putting multiple assets together. So we've been deliberately taking a step back as we've been integrating these companies to focus on making sure that we're setting the business up for durable, profitable growth. But that has come at the expense of cash over the last couple of years. So you can see in 2024, we were negative cash. 2025, we generated positive cash, but we still have a long way to go as we're working towards our goals of 70+% free cash flow conversion.
In 2026, we'll make a step in the right direction as we continue to see improvement and reduction in integration cost efforts. We're finishing the journey in our European medical device regulation remediation, so you'll see a nice step up towards that goal in 2026, and then as we continue to scale the company, there's more efficiency to be had in working capital, CapEx, as we continue to improve the company going forward. That will lead into compounding improvements and debt paydown and interest rate reductions that will allow us to get up to that goal of 70% free cash flow conversion. As we think about one big component to the cash lifecycle, it's investments around capital intensity, especially given a capital-intense business like the Recon side, so over 75% of the CapEx that we invest as a company goes into growth.
So instrumentation to support Recon capacity expansion as we think about building out facilities, some of the R&D expenses that we're investing as a company. You've seen us drive a little bit of leverage here in the last year with regards to CapEx as a percentage of sales. We are still relatively inefficient as we are continuing to integrate some of these acquisitions that we've put together. However, over the next several years, you'll be able to see leverage from CapEx as a percentage of sales. All of that is part of that equation that I just talked about in terms of our goal towards higher free cash flow conversion over time. So moving on, in terms of our long-term ambition as a company, we feel we built a strong company with strong products that will continue to drive profitable growth.
If you think about the business, Recon as Damien laid out, will be the growth driver for the company, so high single-digit to low double-digit profile on the Recon side of the business. We are continuing to shape and improve the P&R side of the business. We're seeing that growth tick up closer to mid-single digit, especially here in 2025, and then we will continue to drive up the profit curve as well, so you'll see us continuing to expand margins year-over-year. That's coming from the mix of the business. Just as we shape towards more Recon that brings mixed benefits. There's scale and operating leverage benefits that will come as well as we grow, and then there's also continued opportunities to drive cost synergy opportunity with regards to some of the integrations that we're doing.
I already talked about the free cash flow conversion targets that we've laid out for the company over the LRP. As we think about 2026, we're guiding growth towards organic growth towards mid-single digits. We've demonstrated 8% in 2023, 5.5% in 2024, and 6% in 2025. We feel like the business is set up to really be able to continue to drive that growth. We'll continue to expand margins as we look into 2026, absorbing the tariff impacts that came our way in 2025, and like I mentioned, we'll take a step in the right direction towards our free cash flow conversion goals with greater than 25% in 2026, so with that, I'll end the presentation, and we'll take some questions from Robbie. Thank you.
Great. Maybe we can start on 2025 guidance, and let's start on the top line came in a touch lower than where guidance was before and consensus. Maybe just talk to some of the trends you saw, which business was impacted more than the other, and we can take it from there.
Sure. Yeah. So I would tell you that right through till the start of December, we were tracking right on plan. We saw a little softness in the last couple of weeks. I largely think this was due to just the way timing happened with ordering patterns, surgical patterns as we headed into the Christmas/New Year break. A lot of it for us was very diffuse. A little bit Europe, a little bit U.S., a little bit Recon, a little bit P&R. I wouldn't be able to point to any particular area. But if you think about the absolute numbers, it was basically one day of sales as we guided the top line to the lower end of our range.
When you think about your 2026 guidance philosophy, I would say one day of sales is a pretty thin margin to miss or beat a quarter. When you take into the mid-single digit, and obviously we'll get more specifics on the fourth quarter earnings call, how are you thinking about just the buffer or the margin for error when you give guidance next year?
Yeah. I think as we look at next year, we've taken a pretty prudent, we want to use the word conservative, conservative approach when we talk about the mid-single digit. We like the setup with our product portfolio and where we're going with the recent new product introductions. We like the setup with where we are with the talent and the way that the commercial organization's evolving. I would argue that the way we've approached next year is to be pretty conservative.
The good news is down the P&L, adjusted EBITDA came in probably at the midpoint a little higher in the range for 2025, and EPS is clearly above where you were before. Obviously, adjusted EBITDA captures some of the operating benefits. So what came in a little better on the operating line and on EPS? Was it items below the line that helped beat consensus?
Yeah. It's a combination of factors. I'd say that the work that we're doing to really improve the portfolio from a mixed standpoint started to play out as we saw the results come through in the Q4 period. So we're seeing mixed advantages of some of the higher growth parts of P&R coming with higher gross margins that are helping offset some of the impacts that we've seen from tariffs. We were seeing the mixed benefits of seeing strong extremities, particularly in shoulder performance continue as we closed out the year. So overall, I'd say gross margins continued to show some good mixed benefit as we closed out the year.
And then as we knew that we didn't know exactly how the days were going to fall, particularly with both Christmas and New Year's Eve falling on a Thursday, we wanted to make sure that we were very thoughtful around making sure that we were disciplined with regards to cost management as we closed out the year, so both gross margins and managing costs, I think, helped us to deliver more towards the top end of our EBITDA range, and then with that EBITDA, also we've seen some improvement lower down in the P&L. I think interest rates continue to run favorable for us as we refinanced the debt, as interest rate cuts benefited us as well, and then depreciation was running a little bit favorable for most of the year as well.
Feel good about where profit and earnings came through, especially given we're closer to the lower end on the revenue guide.
You launched a number of new products in 2025. It seems like there's a lot more to come in 2026, both recognizing some of the new product revenues and more to come. Orthopedics typically isn't a make or break it on any one given product, but a lot of new product introductions can have a positive impact on the revenue and margin line. So what are some of the key ones that launched in 2025 and will impact 2026 and some that are launching to keep in mind in this coming year?
I think this is one of the exciting things about the way the portfolio is evolving. Yes, we launched new products. So Nebula with the collared stem for the hip with the impactor. That was a brand new product for us, and we only really released that in the back half, really Q4. So we've got a long runway with building that opportunity out for us. As exciting was taking products from the Lima acquisition and bringing them into the original Enovis/DonJoy portfolio. So that was an exciting part of it too. So now we have, for example, complete cross-compatibility of our shoulder portfolio. And that enables us to be more capital efficient, focused on growth with shoulder surgeons. The last aspect of growth is just our geographical expansion. We, for example, were not in Japan in shoulders at all until Q4.
And so that's been another really big part of how we've been able to start thinking about growth more broadly, which is geographic expansion of the portfolio and crossing the Atlantic. So it's not just typical NPI. You've got to think about these three things holistically. And that's why we really look forward to a strong portfolio of growth with the Recon business. The P&R business has also benefited from new products, but particularly things like Manafuse, which is a very high gross margin bone stimulation product. We're about to step into a moment with reimbursement changing for cold therapy for the NOPAIN Act. So that's going to be a tailwind for the P&R business. So it's been across the portfolio and in multiple vectors.
So in the slide you had up about the long-range outlook, you had mid to high single digits on revenues. You've been doing mid-single digits the past two years. The goal is or the guidance is for mid-single digits in 2026. What takes you from mid-single to high single?
Yeah. So you referenced an earlier slide. I'll go back even earlier and talk about the commercial execution aspect of it. Think about this. We've been building the company through 20+ acquisitions. And as I said, you bring a lot of different tribes together, a lot of different capabilities. But having them all talk the same language, having them be very focused on customer-facing activities necessarily gets distracted when you're doing a lot of acquisitions. This is why we've talked about pausing the M&A work for a while and focusing very much on the three things: commercial execution, operational excellence, and financial discipline. The upside case is around the commercial execution.
Got it. So as you think about the long run, commercial execution seems to be entirely in your hands. What are you doing today to put into place that pathway to high single digits? And is it something maybe we see in 2027?
Yeah. So there's a long double-click on commercial execution, but selling skills. All of us using the same selling skills methodology. It's the way we do targeting and segmenting and going after particular groups of doctors or expanding into new segments. Predominantly, our shoulder repair is for fellowship-trained shoulder arthroplasty clinicians. We rarely, and to a much limited extent, work with sports medicine shoulder surgeons. So we've got an opportunity to expand there. The way we think about targeting the use of, for example, the ZUK partial knee, we talk to clinicians that the outside case for utilization is to do the majority of your patients with a partial knee. We are, let's call it mid- to high-single-digit in terms of our penetration. So somewhere between our current penetration and this outside case is a happy medium.
Let's call it 25% of cases could be done with the ZUK knee. That's about targeting and segmenting and commercial execution. So there are multiple aspects of this that just take time to get the sales organization confident and competent. Similarly, around I talked about kinematic knee. I think we've got an opportunity to be much more aggressive in terms of how we market the EMPOWR Knee system. That takes a little more energy as a sales rep to learn the knee to be confident and competent to sell that knee and support a clinician in procedures. So again, we're early in the stage of developing that. We know what good looks like because there are a number of our distributor partners and sales reps who are really good at this and have enormous stickiness of clinicians post-training. We need to be able to template and replicate that.
So again, we could go on it because I think I'm very passionate about this side of the house for us and what we can do with it. And that's what gives us a lot of confidence in the upside case.
Let's spend a minute on ARVIS. Where does that stand in terms of a full launch? And do you think that puts you on equal footing with the competition with the full robotic system? Perhaps this could be even a better alternative to ASC or for physicians where cost is an issue.
Yeah. There's a lot to unpack in that question. We're just in the early release of the ARVIS 2.0. You'll see a lot more as we get into AAOS in March. That's really where our coming out party will be on ARVIS. I was just in some cases in the Mayo Clinic just before the holidays where I saw the utilization of it. The headset is substantially different to the 1.0. That means the hardware is much more user-friendly. The software is much more user-friendly. The tissue balancing for the procedure really makes a clinical differentiator for the product. If you're doing all your knees on a robot, it's pretty unlikely you're going to flip and use ARVIS. That's not who we need. But if your volumes are much lower, ARVIS is a relevant clinical cost-effective way of approaching the knee.
If you're moving between multiple clinics, which a lot of clinicians are, between your hospital and two ASCs and maybe another community center, ARVIS is a really viable clinical alternative for you, and so for clinicians who are doing lower volumes and need some planning and navigation support, for clinicians who are moving between multiple clinics and don't have the ability to move their robot around, this is a really viable option. We will launch in March. We'll focus very heavily on the shoulder in the first instance, knee more opportunistically, and then in the back half of the year, be starting to get into the international markets.
Do you think we'll see this contribute in a meaningful way to revenue in 2026?
I think it will, but it won't be as a line that says ARVIS in the P&L because really what we're about here is driving the clinical application of our implants. So what you should see is support for the base case and the upside case for our implant sales.
Is this a model where you'll be selling the system? It's obviously a much lower price tag than a big $1 million+ robot. But is this something you place the hardware and pull through the disposables? Do you lease it? How does this model work? How do you monetize it?
That's a great question. The answer is yes. We're going to be very keen on making sure people have the access to the technology so they can place implants. So we're going to have a very flexible business model here. If people want to buy it outright, terrific. If they want to fee for service, if they want to fee for a procedure, if they want to do an implant commitment, we will be very flexible.
As you think about your end market exposure, I think hips and knees is pretty stable in the 3%-4% type of range. Where do you think lower extremity and upper extremity growth is right now on a global basis? And how does Enovis compare to that?
Yeah. So I think lower extremities probably more the two to three. I think the upper extremities probably like seven-ish. So I think on balance, the math works out around about four. And this is what we like about our profile is that we've been nearly 2x that in our Recon business. So again, I think we've got a durable model of competing in a very competitive space, but I think, again, with differentiated products and a clinical support system.
And what's the latest on share, you think? Because it's very hard to get shoulder and ankle share. And I'm sure it is for you as well. Any thoughts on where you stand?
Yeah. In terms of absolute numbers, it's super hard, right? But I would say if you look at the numbers that our groups are publishing, we're definitely taking share, both in shoulder and foot and ankle. Foot and ankle has been a bit squirrely because the elective bunion market has been shifting in a very meaningful way. But given that our portfolio mix is beyond bunion, it's much more trauma-centric, we've continued to believe we've taken share in both of those segments.
If I look back over the past five years or so, there were a lot of little deals. Lima was a bigger deal. It put a lot of debt on the balance sheet, and there haven't been a whole lot of deals since that close. So where are you in terms of digesting Lima integration? How are you comparing against your deal model? And do you think you'll be ready for M&A anytime soon?
I think Lima has gone very well with regards to integration. I think in terms of what it's built from a portfolio growth and durability standpoint, we're really excited to see the contribution that that acquisition has made. We're stepping into year three of the integration now, very much on track to deliver the $40 million plus of cost synergies that we laid out with regards to when we closed out the deal. So overall, we feel Lima has done really well with regards to our expectations. We knew, like I said in the slides, we knew we were taking a step back on cash and debt when we did the Lima deal. So we've been very focused on making sure we got the integration right over the last couple of years, and we're continuing to drive leverage down.
When we levered up to do Lima, it was closer to four times. We're down to 3.2 now, I think, as we close out the end of 2025. We're really looking to drive leverage down below three before we earn the right to do more M&A. We've got the flexibility on the balance sheet as we've refinanced our debt. So we have the capability to do more deals, but we really want to be very focused around the capital allocation, disciplined around continuing to expand margins, driving debt leverage down, and generating free cash flow yield.
Again, if I look back several years ago, to me, it felt like of the R&D capabilities, there was a lot more development done through acquisitions rather than internal research. Where does that stand now? Obviously, Enovis is a very different business than five years ago. How much of the research are you doing in-house, and do you need to do deals from here on out to drive top-line growth moving forward?
Yeah. I think, look, a legitimate way of innovating was to acquire the innovation and acquire. And that was powerful, and it's put us in a really terrific spot. I think now, because of that process, that acquisition of talent, we've put ourselves in a really good place to be able to do this organically. Back onto the Lima thing, I think we're pleasantly surprised with just how great the talent pool was in that organization, as well as what they brought in with some of the technology around 3D printing, for example, which enables us even real-time. The Cones portfolio that we've just released for Revision has started making a meaningful contribution to our growth rate and to gross margin. So I think it's been important to grow the way we have by bringing in the talent quickly.
I think now we're at scale where we can really use that to think about hitting singles and doubles. And again, as Ben said, there's a point at which we've earned the right to get back into the M&A space to bring in more opportunities for us. But I think we've got scale, talent, and processes now to use our organic R&D as an opportunity to grow.
Yeah, and just to piggyback on that, I mean, I think if we lay out the LRP, talking about mid- to high single-digit growth at the company level, we have a portfolio that's capable to do that without doing any more M&A in our future. So we feel the business is built to be able to grow organically, and now it's about using M&A to really continue to shape the company towards higher growth, higher margins, better cash into the future.
Let's continue on margins here. You've committed to 50 basis points+ , I believe, in 2026 on adjusted EBITDA and 50 basis points plus annual going forward in the longer-range plan . Walk us through the drivers. How much is gross margin versus R&D versus SG&A to get there?
Yeah. Gross margin is the major driver given the fact that Recon comes with higher gross margins. It's going to be the growth driver of the business. And there's productivity and mixed benefits that are happening within the Recon side of the business. So as Recon grows and given that we're mixed 50% extremities, we should see continued improvement there. We also see opportunity to continue to drive productivity and gross margin expansion on the P&R side. So you put those together, and the major contributor of our margin expansion is through our gross margin based on how we've mixed the business. We will continue to drive operating leverage as well. Our SG&A, we know, is too high right now. That's a factor of integrating a bunch of companies over the last several years. So we'll continue to drive SG&A down over time.
And then in terms of getting after more cost synergy opportunity, there's still some of that that's available to us as we continue to integrate Lima as well. So those are the three building blocks in terms of margin expansion. R&D probably won't be a big driver of that in the near term. If anything, we'd like to invest a little bit more in R&D. It's not going to be at the expense of our margin expansion goals. But overall, I think we have a clear runway for continuous margin expansion, not only in the near term, but in the long term.
You're absorbing tariffs within that 50 basis points this year. How should we think about the impact in 2026 of tariffs? Just using the run rate from 2025, multiplying by two, is that a good way to get there? Are there some other factors?
It's evolving a little bit as we're mitigating against them. I think what we've talked about is we spent in Q2, Q3 about $10 million of tariffs. If you think about that cash-wise, it's about a $5 million a quarter run rate. So that's something that we have to offset with mitigation actions. We think it'll be slightly negative to our impact in 2026, but we still feel confident that we can absorb it, mitigate it, and expand the company's margins overall by that 50 basis points +.
When you say negative, is that it will be somewhat of an incremental headwind, but maybe not that full $10 million incremental headwind?
Exactly. We'll mostly neutralize it through mitigation actions. We've already done some of that. But overall, I think that's how to think about it.
Great. Free cash flow generation, 25%+ . This in 2026, moving to hopefully 70%+ . That's been an area that's taken a while to come back into positive territory. What are the drivers in 2026, and how do you get the extra 50% conversion over the long run?
Yeah. I think it's in the materials we presented today. We'll step down our integration costs as we're continuing to integrate these 20+ acquisitions that we've done. We've finished the journey on EUMDR remediation for the most part. And then it's really about driving improvements into the business, continuing to step down integration-related costs, improving working capital. There's a lot of efficiency to be gained as you're putting multiple Recon assets together that require a lot of both CapEx and working capital investment to grow. As we get more efficient and scaled there, those will step down. And like I said, you compound that with more cash, pay down more debt, you pay less interest. All of those are contributing factors. So we feel like the step forward in 2026 is the right step forward after being negative a couple of years ago, being slightly positive in 2025.
We recognize that free cash flow yield is extremely important, and we need to get up the curve and closer to that 70%+ as soon as possible. We'll do it in steps, but overall, take a step in the right direction.
The ownership mindset is going to be very much in place, though, because starting next month, the new performance management scheme is going to have free cash flow as part of the metrics for achievement of goals. So again, we're making this front and center.
There's nothing to incentivize people, they put it as part of their bonus.
Exactly.
Yeah. Well, good. Unfortunately, we're out of time. Thanks for a great discussion, and I appreciate everybody joining today.
Robbie, thanks for having us. Thanks, everyone. Cheers.