EPR Properties (EPR)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2021

Feb 23, 2022

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the fourth quarter 2021 EPR Properties earnings conference call. At this time, all attendees are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one on your telephone keypad. If you require any further assistance, please press star zero. Thank you. Now I would like to welcome Mr. Brian Moriarty. Sir, please go ahead.

Brian Moriarty
SVP of Corporate Communications, EPR Properties

Thank you, operator. Thanks for joining us today for our fourth quarter and year-end 2021 earnings call and webcast. Participants on today's call are Greg Silvers, President and CEO, Greg Zimmerman, Executive Vice President and CIO, and Mark Peterson, Executive Vice President and CFO. I'll start the call by informing you that this call may include forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, identified by such words as will be, intend, continue, believe, may, expect, hope, anticipate, or other comparable terms. The company's actual financial condition and the results of operations may vary materially from those contemplated by such forward-looking statements. Discussion of those factors that could cause results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements are contained in the company's SEC filings, including the company's report on Form 10-K and Form 10-Q.

Additionally, this call will contain references to certain non-GAAP measures which we believe are useful in evaluating the company's performance. A reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in today's earnings release and supplemental information furnished to the SEC under Form 8-K. If you wish to follow along, today's earnings release, supplemental and earnings call presentation are all available on the investor center page of the company's website, www.eprkc.com. Now I'll turn the call over to the company President and CEO, Greg Silvers.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Brian. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's fourth quarter and year-end 2021 earnings call and webcast. As we enter 2022, I'm very proud of the significant and consistent progress we made throughout 2021. Our cash collections improved meaningfully as the year progressed and ended the year at the high end of our expectations. Additionally, during the quarter, we took several important steps to further enhance our balance sheet. This progress has given us the flexibility and liquidity to pursue attractive opportunities and drive our growth strategy in the quarters ahead. Turning to our tenant industries, we were pleased by the significant resolve demonstrated during the year by theater exhibition. This was highlighted by the extraordinary performance of Spider-Man: No Way Home, which was released in December 2021.

Notwithstanding the fact that the title was released during the heart of the spread of the Omicron variant, it has become the third- highest grossing title of all time. Over the past two years, studios and content providers have experimented with various methods of film delivery. These include premium video on demand and day and date presentation. However, the data is clear that neither of these alternatives is an economically viable replacement for exclusive theatrical release. If we look at streaming as a competitive threat, the data is also compelling. Recent 2021 Nielsen streaming statistics again affirmed that streaming services are primarily vehicles for series-based viewing, as 85% of total minutes are spent with either acquired or original series.

The reality is that theatrical exhibition will continue to play a major role in the movie release value creation as it maximizes revenues, creates brand awareness and downstream value for studios, and is valued by the consumer, as the recent Spider-Man success demonstrates. While there can be no assurance that we will achieve 2019 box office revenues again, highly productive theater locations will endure. As society resumes its path toward normalcy, we believe that streaming services and theatrical exhibition will continue to successfully coexist, just as they have for many years. We look forward to the continued recovery of theatrical exhibition throughout 2022 with a strong lineup of titles on the calendar. Our non-theater properties continued to show strong recovery throughout the year, with many tenants even outpacing 2019 performance.

We believe this is strong evidence of the durability of demand for experiential properties in our portfolio. As we consider the near-term environment of higher inflation levels, we believe our portfolio of value-oriented drive-to offerings will continue to lead in the recovery of the experience economy. We are also excited to provide solid earnings and investment spending guidance for 2022. Our earnings guidance clearly demonstrates the productivity of our portfolio. We also understand that investment growth is the engine that drives increasing shareholder value, and we are excited about our investment pipeline as tenants are once again growing their businesses. Additionally, we are pleased to deliver a well-covered 10% increase in our monthly cash dividend to common shareholders.

As we migrate from defense to offense, we believe our current valuation represents a significant discount and a compelling long-term investment opportunity. As we've stated before, we are uniquely positioned to deliver consistent growth in experiential real estate, and our guidance demonstrates this commitment. Finally, last week, we announced the addition of Lisa Trimberger and Caixia Ziegler to our board. These individuals bring highly valued experience along with new and unique perspectives to the company and expand the diverse experience of our board members. I'm excited about working with Lisa and Caixia in the future as we continue to chart the path to success. Now I'll turn the call over to Greg Zimmerman.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

Thanks, Greg. At the end of the fourth quarter, our total investments were approximately $6.4 billion, with 353 properties in service and 96% leased. During the quarter, our investment spending was $25.6 million, bringing the total in 2021 to $133.5 million. 100% of the spending was in our experiential portfolio and included an acquisition, build-to-suit development, and redevelopment projects. Our experiential portfolio comprises 279 properties with 41 operators and accounts for 91% of our total investments or approximately $5.8 billion, and at the end of the quarter, was 96% occupied. Our education portfolio comprises 74 properties with eight operators, and at the end of the quarter was 100% occupied. Now I'll update you on the operating status of our tenants.

Exhibition ended the year with momentum. Q4 total box office was $2.06 billion, bringing the total domestic box office in 2021 to $4.48 billion, a 113% increase over 2020. Through the past weekend, Spider-Man: No Way Home has grossed $771 million, becoming the third- highest grossing domestic film of all time and only the fifth to exceed $700 million. The 2022 film slate is solid, with the potential for 18 tent-pole titles to gross $100 million or more, up from 11 in 2021. Uncharted significantly exceeded expectations, bringing in $51 million over Presidents' Day weekend. Sony has protected the 45-day window, and its films have outperformed.

Over the weekend, Tom Rothman, Sony CEO, noted, "On the heels of Venom: Let There Be Carnage, Ghostbusters: Afterlife, and Spider-Man: No Way Home, Uncharted is yet another blow to theatrical naysayers and further proof of the efficacy of our model." The Batman opens in early March. The remainder of 2022 includes several highly anticipated sequels: Top Gun: Maverick, Jurassic World Dominion, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, Avatar 2, and John Wick 4, along with four Marvel Universe films. Turning now to an update on our other major customer groups. We continue to see positive performance across all segments of our portfolio of value-oriented destinations. We're seeing continued strong performance across Eat & Play throughout the country with outperformance in areas without significant COVID restrictions. Most of our attractions were closed seasonally in Q4.

Our attractions and cultural offerings that were open in Q4 recovered very nicely in attendance and revenue after a difficult 2020 and early 2021. As our attractions reopen for the spring and summer, we anticipate continued solid demand in 2022. Fitness is making its way back to 2019 membership and revenue levels after a very challenging 2020 and early 2021. We're happy with the recovery in our assets. High demand continues across our experiential lodging portfolio with year-over-year growth in occupancy and ADR in all our assets that were not subject to ongoing COVID restrictions or under renovation. The Lodge at Camp Margaritaville, the hotel component of our Camp Margaritaville RV resort in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, opened in early February.

The entire Camp Margaritaville project has been so well-received that we're working with our operator to add significant additional amenities to further enhance the guest experience. The Nordic Spa at our Alyeska Resort will open in March, adding yet another reason to visit this high-quality four-season resort south of Anchorage. As I noted on our last call, we completed the renovation of the Bellwether Beach Resort on St. Pete Beach in October. We'll complete the renovation of the Beachcomber in March. We've already seen substantial year-over-year growth in ADR and occupancy at both locations. Our Jellystone Park warrants exceeded our expectations in 2021, and we are continuing to implement upgrades as we reposition the park to better serve our customers. The Kartrite Resort and Indoor Waterpark is open Thursday through Sunday until Memorial Day. We will return to full week openings from Memorial Day to Labor Day.

After all the challenges presented by COVID, we're looking forward to what we hope will be our first full normal summer season. Turning to ski. Conditions were challenging in the early part of the season but improved after Christmas. We've seen good demand fueled by solid season pass sales. The Omicron variant created some additional impact, particularly in staffing. But because we own drive to value-oriented ski destinations, our assets were not materially impacted by flight cancellations. With improved weather conditions after Christmas and a decrease in COVID cases, we expect strong visitation numbers in the second half of the season. Our education portfolio continues to perform well, with 2021 enrollment and revenue both solidly exceeding 2020 levels. As has been the case for the past year and a half, our primary capital recycling focus is on vacant theaters.

Since Q3 2020, we've sold six vacant theaters for various uses, including two in the fourth quarter. We have four remaining vacant theaters. One is under an executed contract of sale and is the only theater included in our disposition guidance. We continue to market the remaining three theaters for sale with multiple expressions of interest on each, and disposition proceeds could grow during the year as we make additional progress. In addition to the two theater properties sold in Q4, as previously reported, we made the strategic decision to sell the Wisp and Wintergreen ski resorts to our tenant. We also sold a vacant Eat & Play location and a vacant land parcel. Total net proceeds for these six transactions were $65.3 million, with a gain of $16.4 million.

For 2021, disposition proceeds and mortgage note payoffs totaled $101.2 million. Finally, as we turn our focus to once again growing the business, we're seeing increasing investment opportunities through most of our verticals, including Eat & Play, experiential lodging, fitness and wellness, and attractions, and our pipeline is building. Since our last call, we have commenced two Topgolf build-to-suit projects in Ontario, California, and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, and we acquired an operating Movement climbing fitness yoga in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago. The investment in these three projects will total approximately $82 million on completion. In Q4, we funded $22 million, and to date in 2022, we funded an additional $19 million.

We're thrilled to add these three high-quality assets to our portfolio, all in A-plus real estate locations in dominant markets with strong operators, and to have Movement, the leading climbing gym operator in the country, in our portfolio. We're either under contract or in advanced negotiations for an additional approximately $350 million of investments in multiple experiential verticals. These opportunities include acquisitions, build-to-suits, and redevelopment investments consistent with our historical approach. Cap rates remain in the 7%-8% range, and we should create compelling long-term value. With this growing pipeline, we're introducing investment spending guidance of $500 million-$700 million for 2022. In summary, we're pleased with the backdrop as we head into 2022. Consumers continue to engage in experiential activities, and operators are pivoting to growth.

With our unparalleled experience and network in experiential real estate, we're ideally positioned to take advantage of these growth opportunities. I now turn it over to Mark for a discussion of the financials.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Greg. Today, I will discuss our financial performance for the quarter and year, provide an update on our capital markets activities and a strong balance sheet, and close by introducing our 2022 guidance. FFO as adjusted for the quarter was $1.08 per share versus $0.18 in the prior year, and AFFO for the quarter was $1.11 per share compared to $0.23 in the prior year. Before I go through the variances, I want to call out three favorable items that benefited our results this quarter, each of which is about $1 million and in total represents about $0.04 Per share. I'll have more on each of these items in my comments, but they relate to deferred rent received from prior periods from cash-basis customers and non-recurring benefits in both property operating expense and G&A expense.

Note that after backing out these favorable items, our FFO as adjusted per share for the quarter was $1.04, which is still well ahead of the high end of our guidance. This better-than-expected performance is across a number of areas and is testament to the strength we are continuing to see in our customers' businesses. Now moving to the key variances, total revenue for the quarter was $154.9 million versus $93.4 million in the prior year. This increase was due primarily to improved collections and revenue from certain tenants which continued to be recognized on a cash basis or were previously receiving abatements, as well as certain receivable write-offs in the prior year. Scheduled rent increases, as well as acquisitions and developments completed over the past year, also contributed to the increase. This increase was partially offset by the impact of property dispositions.

Additionally, we had higher other income and other expense of $8 million and $6.9 million, respectively, due to the reopening of The Kartrite Resort & Indoor Waterpark after being closed in the prior period due to COVID-19 restrictions, as well as from two theater properties that we are operating, which benefited from strong fourth quarter box office results. Percentage rents for the quarter were much higher than anticipated and totaled $6.9 million versus $3 million in the prior year. The increase versus prior year related to higher percentage rents from our gaming tenant as well as from an early education tenant based on a restructured lease. Additionally, higher percentage rent was recognized than anticipated due to strong performance at our golf entertainment complexes, several attraction properties, and one ski property.

This was partially offset by the disposition of certain private schools in December of 2020. As a reminder, we are defining percentage rent here as amounts due above base rent and not payments in lieu of base rent based on a percentage of revenue. Property operating expense for the quarter decreased by $3.5 million compared to prior year, primarily due to fewer vacancies resulting from dispositions and releasing. In addition, we had about $1 million of non-recurring benefit in the quarter as a result of the closeout of an accrual for certain prior period infrastructure costs. G&A expense for the quarter decreased by $0.6 million compared to prior year and was below the low end of our guidance, due primarily to a non-recurring adjustment to reduce incentive compensation by about $1.1 million.

Costs associated with loan refinancing or payoff for the quarter of $20.5 million related to the redemption of all of our $275 million, 5.25% senior notes due in 2023, including the make-whole premium. Interest expense, net, for the quarter decreased by $8.8 million compared to prior year, due to reduced borrowings and lower borrowing costs through the termination of our bank covenant waiver. In addition to the repayment of the term loan during the third quarter, we had no balance on our revolving credit facility throughout the quarter. During the quarter, we recognized a credit loss benefit of $2.3 million versus expense of $20.3 million in the prior year. The primary reason for the benefit this quarter was a partial repayment of $1.5 million on a fully reserved note.

This benefit is excluded from FFO as adjusted. Shifting to full year results. Both 2020 and 2021 were, of course, negatively impacted by COVID-19. As you can see, we have experienced meaningful progress in 2021, with FFO as adjusted of $3.09 per share versus $1.43 in the prior year. With fourth quarter nearly getting back to a full run rate, with revenue recognition at 99% of the contractual cash amount. Now let's turn to our capital markets activities and balance sheet. As I discussed on our last call, we had a very productive quarter of financing activities that result in lower cost of capital for EPR and further improving our liquidity to position us well as we re-accelerate our investment spending.

In early October, we amended and restated our $1 billion revolving credit facility to extend the maturity to October 2025, with extensions at our option for a total of 12 additional months, subject to certain conditions. We are pleased that the new facility has the same pricing terms and financial covenants as the prior facility, with improved valuation of certain asset types. Additionally, in January 2022, we amended our private placement note agreement to capture the same improvements in the valuation of certain asset types. In late October, we closed on $400 million of new 10-year senior unsecured notes at a coupon of 3.6%, the lowest in the company's history. We are very pleased with the timing of that transaction, given the increase in both interest rates and investment grade spread since that time.

The proceeds from this offering we used to, in part, to redeem $275 million of our 5.25% senior unsecured notes at the make-whole amount on November 12. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA was 5.2x, and our net debt to gross assets was 38% on a book basis at December 31. At year-end, we had total outstanding debt of $2.8 billion, all of which is either fixed-rate debt or debt that has been fixed through interest rate swaps with a blended coupon of approximately 4.3%. Additionally, our weighted average debt maturity is over six years, with no scheduled debt maturities until 2024. We had $288.8 million of cash on hand at quarter end and no balance drawn on our $1 billion revolver.

As you can see, our balance sheet is well positioned to fund our investment opportunities. Cash collections from customers were at the high end of expectations at approximately 97% of contractual cash revenue for the fourth quarter or $133.8 million. Because some of the strong performance related to cash basis customers, revenue recognition as a percentage of contractual cash revenue was also at the high end of guidance for the quarter at 99%, as I mentioned earlier. We are pleased with the recovery our tenants are experiencing and anticipate both contractual cash collections and revenue recognition to remain near 100% for all of 2022. As a result, going forward, we will no longer be guiding to expected contractual cash collections and revenue recognition.

During the quarter, we also collected $10.2 million of deferred rent and interest from accrual basis tenants and borrowers, and the deferred rent and interest receivable on our books at December 31 was $27.6 million. We expect to collect about $24 million of this amount in 2022, with the remaining amount to be collected through the end of 2024. Additionally, as I mentioned at the beginning of my comments, during the quarter, we collected $1 million in deferral repayments from cash basis customers that were recognized as revenue when received. At December 31, we had $124 million of deferred rent and interest owed to us, not on the books. This amount is due over the next five years. Revenue from cash basis customers will continue to be recognized when the cash is received.

Finally, as I discussed previously, we received a note repayment from a cash basis customer of $1.5 million, which resulted in credit loss recovery that is excluded from FFO as adjusted. Adding this all together, and as you can see on the slide, we collected 106% of contractual cash revenue for the quarter. For the full year 2021, we have collected a total of nearly $71 million of deferred rent and interest, bringing the total of such deferral collections to nearly $80 million since the onset of the pandemic. We've also collected over $8 million of cash related to a previously reserved note receivable. Due to the anticipated ongoing deferral collections, we expect to continue to collect more than 100% of contractual cash revenue over the next several years, providing additional capital to fuel our growth.

We are introducing guidance for 2022 FFO as adjusted per share of $4.30-$4.50, represent an increase of 42% at the midpoint and investment spending guidance of $500 million-$700 million. Guidance for disposition proceeds of $0-$10 million is lower than the past few years, given our significant progress in selling vacant properties as Greg discussed. Based on expected 2022 performance, we are pleased to announce a 10% increase in our monthly dividend, beginning with the dividend payable April 18 to shareholders of record as of March 31. We expect our 2022 dividend to be well covered with an FFO as adjusted per share payout ratio of 74% at the midpoint of guidance and an AFFO per share payout of around 71%.

Both of these payout ratios are projected before considering the benefit of any deferral collections. Before concluding, I would like to give some additional details regarding 2022 guidance. Consistent with past guidance, we are not including any collections of deferrals from cash basis customers that will be booked as additional revenue when received. Of course, we will continue to report each quarter on the amount of such collections as well as the collections from accrual basis customers. Percentage rents are expected to be lower than the $14 million recorded in 2021 due to an agreed upon change in structure with one of our early education tenants, whereby percentage rent paid of $8.3 million in 2021 will revert to becoming part of minimum rent.

However, this decrease is expected to be partially offset with improved performance of several other properties. Accordingly, for 2022, we anticipate percentage rent to be in a range of $8 million-$12 million. Also consistent with the historical timing of percentage rents, we expect such amounts to be weighted to the back half of the year with over 50% anticipated in the fourth quarter. As I mentioned earlier, in the fourth quarter of 2021, we had a benefit to property operating expense of about $1 million that we don't anticipate recurring in 2022. As a result, for 2022, we expect this expense to return to a quarterly run rate of about $14 million.

G&A expense is expected to increase to in 2022 to a range of $49 million-$52 million, primarily due to increased payroll costs, increased non-cash stock grant amortization as we have hired new people to support our growth and to reflect salary increases and higher anticipated incentive compensation. We also expect travel expense to increase as well as professional fees to support our ESG initiative. I would also like to note that the first quarter is anticipated to be slightly higher than the quarterly average for the year by approximately $400,000. We also expect that our convertible preferred shares outstanding will continue to be dilutive to per share results in each quarter in 2022 as they were in Q4 of 2021. Guidance details can be found on page 23 of our supplemental.

Lastly, I'd like to comment on our capital plan for 2022. We are in the enviable position in this turbulent market of having nearly $300 million of cash on hand at year-end, nothing drawn on our $1 billion revolving line of credit, and no scheduled debt maturities until 2024. Furthermore, we expect to generate significant excess cash flow in 2022. As a result, our plan has no new sources of debt and only a modest amount of new equity later in the year to continue to maintain low leverage. This means we can be opportunistic as to when and how we access additional capital. Now with that, I'll turn it over to Greg for his closing remarks.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Mark. As you can see from both our results and guidance, our focus has turned from recovery to growth. I could not be prouder of our team and how they have met the many challenges of this pandemic, and we are now positioned to execute on our investment plan and drive shareholder value for this coming year and beyond. With that, why don't I open it up for questions. Operator?

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, simply press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. Once again, that is star one on your telephone keypad. Your first question is from the line of Katy McConnell from Citi. Your line is now open.

Katy McConnell
VP and Equity Research Senior Analyst, Citi

Thanks. Good morning, everyone.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Morning.

Katy McConnell
VP and Equity Research Senior Analyst, Citi

Just regarding the acquisition pipeline, could you discuss the breakdown of new acquisitions versus redevelopment spend that you're assuming within the range? What are you assuming as far as timing of closing the deals throughout the year?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Again, I'll let Greg comment, but I think historically, I would say again, it's probably what we're looking at 50/50 now. I think again, it's probably going to be what we're getting some progress on some things now, as Greg mentioned, under LOI that we're progressing with. But it will probably be a little lower at the beginning, a little heavier at the end, just as things kind of move through the sales. But Greg, maybe-

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I think the best way to think about it is we're ramping up.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

as we go into 2022. I agree with it. It'll be a nice mix of development and acquisitions.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

The good thing about that, Katy, is the development will not only contribute some this year, but will drive further growth into next year as it becomes online.

Michael Bilerman
Managing Director, Citi

It's Michael Bilerman here with Katy. I was just wondering, as you think about funding all the transactions, and clearly you have the cash that's on the balance sheet, you talk about the free cash flow after paying the dividend, and you talk about your overall leverage profile, which gives you a pretty good runway, as you've mentioned, not to have to issue debt or equity. I guess, what are you thinking about once you spend all that capital, how are you thinking about your cost of capital? And where does your stock need to be trading for you to think about that as a replenishment of your capital base? You know, clearly the stock is, you know, 10% FFO yield.

This is not at a level where you could issue accretively, and so I'm just trying to understand a little bit how aggressive you're gonna be about spending the capital you have before thinking about replenishing the wealth.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I think there's a couple of things, Michael, and I'll let Mark comment on this. I think clearly, we think that this kind of report and our ability to execute will hopefully help with our share price. Again, when we start to look at things on a 60/40 basis, as Greg said, these are things that if they're above in that 7%-8% range, that if we can get our cost of capital, you know, around 7%, that we think that we can accretively still deploy capital. We still have the ability also to increase our dispositions and recycle capital. I think there's a lot of different levers that we can pull.

Clearly, as you mentioned, our share price has been depressed, but you know, as I said, we've been in this kind of recovery mode. We think that the proposition that we're offering will be a great kind of value opportunity for people. People will recognize that, and hopefully the share price will recover. That will allow us to get back into that cycle of driving forward. The positive thing for us right now is, you know, the opportunities are there. We think they're attractively priced, and on any sort of normalized basis, we think they're accretive to what should be our normalized valuation. Mark, maybe you have something to add.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Yeah, no, I would agree with all that. You know, we're in the fortunate position, as you mentioned, Michael, that we have the cash on hand that's basically earning nothing that can be redeployed. We also are generating significant positive excess cash flow beyond our dividend. If you think about the deferral collections we expect, plus this ongoing cash flow on a relatively low payout ratio, that cash on hand plus cash flow generate excess of the dividend really gives us a lot of flexibility as to whether we have to raise equity or not. We do have some equity in the plan just to maintain low leverage, but frankly, we can be pretty opportunistic about that within the range of our leverage, as we look at our capital plan for 2022.

Michael Bilerman
Managing Director, Citi

Great. Thank you.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Michael.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Thanks, Michael.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Anthony Paolone from JPMorgan. Your line is now open.

Anthony Paolone
Executive Director, JPMorgan

I just want to understand in the supplemental, your exposure to Regal bounced from about 8% to 13% in the quarter. I was wondering what happened there and whether that was just the change in collections. Just any thoughts on that portfolio, given the issues with the parent company, Cineworld.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I'll let Mark answer the bounce up, but it generally was just collections. I'll let him go into more detail. I think, Tony, again, yes, they do have with the recent judgment with Cineplex, I think everyone in the industry thinks that will get settled, that they're two reasonable people that are reasonable companies. If anybody followed some of the news report, it doesn't make any sense for them to drive that to a restructuring. We think those issues will get settled. As the industry recovers, they will both benefit from that settlement. Currently right now, we think they're in discussions and making progress. I would also add that we have a very good Regal portfolio. Both of those groups, Cineplex and Regal, are tenants of ours, so.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Just with respect to the percentage, it went from about a little over 8% to about 13.7%, with respect to Regal. Remember, Regal's on a cash basis. This is based on revenue recognized, and they were receiving some deferrals through third quarter, and in fourth quarter, paid 100% of current contractual cash. So that was really the increase as a full quarter of normal payments, whereas in Q3 they're under some deferral agreement.

Anthony Paolone
Executive Director, JPMorgan

Mark, on that major tenant roster, I mean, given where the collections were in the quarter, is that pretty reflective of the rent that's due at this point?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I mean, you get a little bit of impact of percentage rents, 'cause this includes kinda all revenue in this, in this calculation. For example, Resorts World, which is our casino, is probably not that high on an ongoing basis just because it had percentage rents. There's a little bit of fluctuation. Remember too, we're gonna have revenue recognition will increase from around 99% to closer to 100%. It was really 98.something% to 100%. We're gonna have some little bit of change there. But I think...y ou know, for the most part, it reflects sort of normalcy, what I said, with the exception of sort of some, you know, percentage rents that kind of influence, particularly attractions and, as I mentioned, casinos, our casino investment.

Anthony Paolone
Executive Director, JPMorgan

Okay. Last question, just in terms of the cap rates on the deals that you're looking at, you talked about 7%-8%. Can you talk a little bit more, give some examples of, you know, where you need to go to get something closer to an 8%, what those contractual bumps may look like, what the underlying credit or product is, just to get a sense, because it seems like a lot of your peers in net lease are kind of trending more into things that are, you know, yielding 5% and 6%. We just wanted to understand a little bit more about what the product looks like up at that cap rate range.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah, I think, and I'll let Greg Zimmerman comment on this. I think there's some of that is the difference between an acquisition, the lower end of that versus a development or a redevelopment. I think the other thing that people don't appreciate is, and I give a credit to Greg and his team, is a lot of these tenants we worked with through this pandemic. We've built up a substantial amount of goodwill with how we dealt with them and how we helped them in their business. That's paying off now in the opportunities that we're seeing, that people know who we are, how we work with them as tenants, and we're benefiting from that. We're getting paid back, and we're getting an access and an opportunity to do deals.

Greg, I'll let you.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

Yeah, I would add that we have several folks who come with different verticals that they invest in for us to help them. I do believe that the relationships are important. We're certainly seeing the lower cap rate deals, but we feel like we have the opportunity to do the cap rate deals that we mentioned. That's filling our pipeline.

Anthony Paolone
Executive Director, JPMorgan

Okay, thank you.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Tony.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Lizzy Doykan from Bank of America. Your line is now open.

Lizzy Doykan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Hi, good morning. I know you guys mentioned the expectations for G&A to increase, and I'm just wondering if it's fair to assume that growth will decelerate in 2023. If you can talk about the specific items that will be expected to be more recurring going forward.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

We have hired quite a few employees this year. We've increased our headcount as we kind of ramp up for growth. You know, if we look at our guidance, this year at the midpoint of $50.5 million versus 2021 at $44.4 million, it's an increase of about $6 million. About $1.5 million of that is stock rent amortization just due to higher awards, and we have about $3.4 million is really salaries and benefits. We did have raises this year. Like I said, new people. Higher incentive comp is expected based on performance.

We do have higher professional fees for ESG in our plan, and we also have, you know, kind of travel and so forth, other G&A items returning to normalcy. I think, frankly, I think we've added or have planned to add most of the people. I think we're leveraging G&A relative to total revenue this year as a percentage lower than 2021, but you'll continue to see that leverage a bit as we move into 2023, as revenue grow and you won't see G&A grow as much. I think that number, that new number is fairly, you know, sticky in terms of given the fact that it's people and salaries and stock rent amortization.

I don't necessarily see that going down going forward, but I think the percentage of revenue will go down as we further leverage our G&A.

Lizzy Doykan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Okay, great. Thank you. I was also wondering if you could go over the intended portfolio allocation. I'm kind of talking about page 20 from the supplement. I believe you noted, you know, private schools were performing a lot better in 4Q. What about this and perhaps early childhood education still does not appeal to your business? Is Eat & Play and experiential still kind of where you see the fastest growth?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I would say we've been consistent in the fact that, you know, we're not really growing our education. We're focusing on experiential. That business is performing well. Again, I think what we've seen is, the market has taken out a lot of capacity in early childhood education. As people are returning to work, we're seeing a substantial recovery in those in demand. As we've said, you know, pre-pandemic and throughout the pandemic, our focus is on experiential and those are the categories, save for theaters, that we're gonna be growing. That's what will be reflective of our investment spending guidance are in experiential categories, not in education and not in theaters.

Lizzy Doykan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Okay, great. That's helpful. Thank you.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Todd Thomas from KeyBanc Capital. Your line is now open.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Hi. Thanks. Good morning. First question, just wanted to go back to Regal. So what is Regal's normalized exposure within the portfolio? It sounds like 14% is not the right number or is it? I was a little confused by the comments.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I think that's in the range of normalcy. If you go back to you know pre-pandemic that's I think a similar type number. I think one of the things I should add that could impact that schedule is deferral collections from cash-based customers. We're not budgeting those but that could move you know the number up if we collect more than kind of their current contractual which is all we're contemplating. But I think that number kind of overall is sort of representative given that we were close to 100% revenue recognition as a whole and had full payment from Regal during the quarter.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Okay. I think you know there was a comment that the Regal assets, the Regal locations are strong above average. You know, where are Regal rents or sales relative to market, you know, across the portfolio? Or is there another way to provide some additional context around that comment?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Again, what we said is, you know, we think they are above average Regal assets. I think we've commented when we did a revision with AMC. We did that because those rents were more out of market rents, given the fact that they were long-lived and most of those assets had been in existence for more than 20 years or are on our books. We felt we didn't need to do that with Regal or with Cinemark. I think while we don't talk about a specific tenant, I think you know like Greg added with the fact that we feel like our Regal portfolio is, as I said, a better than average portfolio relative to the market. It's reflective of the fact that, you know, fourth quarter, we're back to 100% of payment on that. Greg. Yeah, I think that covers it. Yeah.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Okay. Are there any restrictions or, you know, obviously it's sort of fluid and the outcome's uncertain, but are there any, you know, restrictions or anything that would, you know, maybe, you know, that would prevent Cineworld from maybe transferring obligations, you know, to another operator, in the way of sort of assuming leases or pursuing a spin or, you know, an IPO of the Regal entity or anything like that? Are there any restrictions or impediments to something like that happening as it pertains to EPR?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Again, I'm not aware that there are. I think other than the fact that we have a full Cineworld guarantee on our assets, it would be very hard for them to execute that without continuing with that obligation.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Okay. If I could, just in terms of the acquisitions, I was just curious, Mark, if you could help us understand what sort of the range of FFO contribution looks like in 2022, you know, within the guidance from investments. It sounds like, you know, there's you know, some developments and redevelopments that'll have a bigger impact perhaps in 2023 relative to 2022 as they come online. You know, just curious if you can talk about the FFO impact that's embedded in the 2022 guidance from investments.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

You know, the good news is the way we've got this kind of laid in with 50/50, a bit back weighted, we have equity in the plan in a pretty conservative way that's somewhat opportunistic and somewhat optional. It's not as big as you might think. I think it's probably in the order of $0.10 a share or something like that, in terms of the impact of acquisitions and development. Development has some impact in that obviously you're gonna be capitalizing interest, so there's some cap rates, just not the full cap rate, and we'll get the benefit of the full benefit of that in 2023, obviously. So it's partial. I mean, it's not as significant as you might think in terms of our plan.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I would add, Todd, that that's always impacted by timing and you know, do deals close earlier or later, that always drives a lot of that discussion.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Sure. Okay, that's helpful. I guess the cash on the balance sheet, you know, almost $290 million, should we assume that cash is used first to fund investments and then the revolver is used later in the year?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Sure. Yeah, exactly. We you know, if you kind of run through it, $300 million of cash, $600 million of acquisitions, $140 million of positive cash flow, have some equity issuance and very little draws on the line. No new debt, very little draws on the line, really gets us to our capital plan for the year. And I also should mention at $0.10, there is some annualization too in that from projects. We didn't have significant spending in 2021, but some of that does annualize is in that $0.10 as well. It's kind of a combination of the new investments plus some annualization.

No, the capital plan is really pretty straightforward when we have this much cash on hand and this much positive cash flow being generated. Like I said, really gives us a lot of flexibility as to how we do that. It's primarily off the cash and excess cash and a little bit of draws on the line. Then we do have some equity, but like I said, very opportunistic in terms of how we'll do that.

Todd Thomas
Managing Director, KeyBanc Capital Markets

Okay, great. All right. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Ki Bin Kim from Truist. Your line's now open.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Thanks. Maybe just an accounting question first. You mentioned in your opening remarks that the FFOAA would be $1.04 if you took out one-time items. Are you also excluding the higher than normalized percentage rent in that $1.04? Or if you took out the percentage rent, would it actually be, you know, closer to $1 or maybe a little less?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I'm not taking out the percentage rent in that calculation because that you know will recur effectively you know next year as well. In fact, percentage rents on an apples-to-apples basis will go up. You got to pull out the early childhood that moves to minimum rent if you kind of do the math. No, it does not back out percentage rents. It backs out the three items I mentioned, cash basis, deferral collections of $1 million. There's about $1 million in property operating expenses and then about $1 million in G&A is what that $0.04 is.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Okay. Just given some of those one-time item type of noise, would you be able to provide just some brackets around what we should expect in earnings for, like, 1 Q without acquisition?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

The thing about the first one.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Just trying to get the recurring run rate.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah, yeah. If you look at first quarter, we really have kind of some offsetting things going on. You have the $0.04 happen. You know, that won't repeat itself. That $1.08 is more like $1.04. But then on the flip side, we have some annualization going on, with respect to some of our revenues and some annualization of projects from this year plus some bumps and so forth. Probably, you know. It will probably be in the neighborhood of this quarter's adjusted number, which was $1.04. We expect Q1 to be fairly similar to that as you have those kind of offsetting things going on for Q1. The thing that could take it up, it could be, you know, a deferral collection from cash basis customers, which we don't budget.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. In your comments, you mentioned $140 million of cash flow. I was just curious, did you mean cash flow after dividends and just, you know, what's truly retained?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Correct.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Okay. Just last question for me on Regal. Can you just talk about you said you got full rent payment in 4Q. What does that coverage ratio look like for that tenant? We're just trying to understand.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

You know, the downside case here. If the coverage ratio is good, then obviously the downside, you know, is kind of safer.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah. Again, I think that, again, a coverage ratio on a year-over-year basis is hard to project, given the fact that fourth quarter was really. I think what's important is both Regal and all the major exhibitors have indicated that in the fourth quarter they were cash flow positive, which means they're above 1.0 for the quarter. I think as we move forward through this year, and we have a better kind of metric where we don't have total months that we're totally left off, we'll begin to start kind of getting back to some traditional coverage metrics. I just don't think it's really any way to apples-to-apples kind of compare those two right now, because the only quarter where we really started turning the corner was in the fourth quarter.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

The box office will continue to get better.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah.

Ki Bin Kim
Managing Director of US REIT Equity Research, Truist

Got it. Thank you.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Rob Stevenson from Janney. Your line is now open.

Rob Stevenson
Managing Director and Head of Real Estate Research, Janney Montgomery Scott

Guys, I know you're not generally in the market to buy, but have you been seeing any good performing theaters leased to one of the top operators trade in the market yet? And if so, where is pricing versus pre-pandemic? Because obviously, you know, there hasn't been a lot. Most of the stuff's been vacant that's sold, so it's been tough, I think, for a lot of NAV calculations to figure out what the 45% of your portfolio that's theaters is worth these days. Has there been any decent price discovery on recent transactions out there in the marketplace?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I think all we've really seen is other theater companies acquiring theaters. We haven't seen a lot. Most, as you said, most kind of transactions are for alternative use. Greg, I don't-

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

No, I mean, I think you're right. I think the only thing we've really seen is AMC taking on new leases.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah.

Rob Stevenson
Managing Director and Head of Real Estate Research, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. How are you guys thinking about casino acquisitions at this point? You know, where are the returns you're looking at on deals in that space today versus the 7%-8% cap rates that you're talking about on acquisitions in general?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah, it's a good question. I think clearly, there's been a lot of activity and a lot of pricing compression in that area. I think most deals, I think, you know, most deals, especially of the larger size, are sub that target for us, so it may not make sense for us right now. I think, candidly, as we move forward, we will be looking, and we're still being contacted and looking at deals, but they will probably be smaller deals. I mean, Rob, there's just not that many big assets out there remaining. There may be an opportunity for us to participate in some smaller deals on a regional basis, but we'll just have to see as that develops. There's no right now with the guidance that Greg provided and Mark elaborated on. There's no gaming asset as part of that.

Rob Stevenson
Managing Director and Head of Real Estate Research, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Yeah, 'cause I was wondering, especially now that you now have Realty Income playing in that space, what's happening with cap rates there. How are you guys also thinking about the experiential lodging at this point? I mean, is it an opportunity now given, you know, that the hotel REITs, although they've been performing better of late, have been sort of set back and, you know, hotels haven't been as, you know, front and center as stuff like apartments, industrial and things like that out there to make a play acquisition-wise in that space? How are you guys thinking about that at this point in the cycle?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Again, it's interesting. As Greg said, we've had some really good kind of performance out of ours, but we look at that a little differently. I mean, we've seen really good response in the RV space. You've seen us make investments there. That whole recreational lodging is a little bit more expansive for us, meaning, you know, where we are. Yet we opened up our RV facility in Pigeon Forge, and we've had outstanding performance with what we did at Jellystone in Wisconsin. We continue to see in and around major attractions, i.e. national parks, things of that nature, that there is some real opportunity to come in to buy those assets and to amenitize those to a higher level and really see performance jump in terms of both occupancy and daily rental rates.

I think you'll see us continue to look in that space and play in that space and find some unique opportunities. Whether it's experiential in the RV or lodging, it still needs to have an experiential component for us. Just traditional lodging, we're not gonna be a player in. It's gotta have an experiential tie.

Rob Stevenson
Managing Director and Head of Real Estate Research, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. One last one for Mark from me. Mark, how much of the revenue in 2022 essentially stays cash basis for whatever reason, either COVID or, you know, whether or not you're keeping Regal there because of the, some combination of, you know, the past COVID stuff and the ongoing litigation, et cetera. When we're thinking about 2022, how much of that is still gonna be cash basis versus, you know, reverting back to sort of, normal?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

You know, it's a pretty high percentage, and I'll tell you why. We're not gonna revert back to accrual accounting until we're comfortable with a number of things. Number one, we wanna be conservative in the assessment and kind of be data-driven. We wanna see continued performance according to agreements and payment of deferred rent and assess their ability to pay all rents. With theaters, we wanna see continued box office performance. Frankly, we're not in a hurry, and there's quite a bit of a high accounting threshold to get back to accrual. If you think about AMC, Regal will continue to be on cash basis, and some others, it's probably around 35%-40%, frankly. But again, we expect to get paid 100% of current quarter's cash amounts.

Frankly, when we return to accrual, the impact is really a one-time benefit to record AR and straight line, and then we'll have some straight line going forward. Frankly, AFFO is really unaffected, 'cause as you know, straight line doesn't affect AFFO. We're monitoring it. As I said, we need to see certain of these factors that I went through happen. We're gonna be pretty conservative in that assessment, given that it's really kind of a noneconomic event and more of a you know, kind of AFFO neutral decision.

Rob Stevenson
Managing Director and Head of Real Estate Research, Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Thanks, guys. Appreciate the time this morning.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thanks, Rob.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of Michael Carroll from RBC Capital Markets. Your line's now open.

Michael Carroll
Director of US Real Estate Research, RBC Capital Markets

Yeah, thanks. Greg, congrats on the pending chairman appointment. Maybe can you talk about the pros of you being named chair, given your knowledge and expertise in the space versus the potential governance concerns of having a dual chairman and CEO? How did the board kinda weigh that debate?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Michael. I think what is occurring is, if you've seen, we have several new board members. Again, we've announced too, we have another retirement based upon our requirements next year, and we had a couple of new appointees a couple of years ago. I think that the decision was more on continuity and somebody who'd kind of been here. I think the other thing that we did with Virginia Shanks, Gin ny Shanks as our Lead Independent Director that I think the board has tremendous confidence in. I think they feel comfortable with this approach. I think that's the direction that we're going, but that we feel we're well represented representing the shareholders from a Lead Independent Director with Ginny and the continuity with myself.

Michael Carroll
Director of US Real Estate Research, RBC Capital Markets

Maybe it's too early to say, is that the longer term plan, or is the plan to kinda separate those roles again in the future as kind of more people on the board kind of seasoned and been there for a while?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Again, that's something I'm sure our board will take up. I don't know. Again, we'll just have to see how this progresses and the comfortability with everyone with the situation. I think the board feels comfortable with it now.

Michael Carroll
Director of US Real Estate Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, great. I guess, Mark, can you talk a little bit about the assets currently in the TRS, how much they kinda generated in the fourth quarter, and kinda what's the expectations of those assets recovering as you move through 2022? I mean, in guidance, can you highlight what you've included in terms of how much of an uptick those assets are gonna have next year?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

We're really not guiding to that level, Michael, but I will say that given the fact that certain of those assets were closed for part of 2021, we definitely expect an uptick. If you think about Kartrite being closed, reopening, we did some renovations at our JV in St. Petersburg on those hotels, and they were closed due to COVID. We expect quite a bit of uptick if you compare 2021 to 2022 in the performance of our TRS. Like I said, Kartrite, you've got the JVs, the hotels in St. Petersburg. You also have Jellystone, which was purchased kind of in the off-season, and it'll get a full run rate next year.

We're not giving specific guidance, but I can tell you where that was. If you look at all that was a pretty big net negative in 2021. We expected that to be a positive in 2022. That is part of the increase year-over-year is better performance of those TRS properties.

Michael Carroll
Director of US Real Estate Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, great. On the percentage rents, I know you did a good job kind of highlighting what's moving in and out of those. What are you including in guidance in terms of how many of those leases actually start paying percentage rents, and what's the likelihood of some of those assets outperforming expectations, especially given the inflationary type of environment we're in, that you could see those trend even higher than where guidance was kinda currently implying?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Yeah, we think, you know, the midpoint of $10 million, we really have seen performance kind of getting back to 2019 levels. If you look at percentage rents in 2019, strip out the stuff that sold, private schools, we had some Schlitterbahn. If you kind of get rid of those and look at it, what we're budgeting this year, we're kind of getting back to those levels with a bit of an uptick in a couple of the assets that we feel confident, particularly the casino asset, where it's performing, you know, much better than it was even in 2019 in terms of percentage rent. I think there, you know, there could be upside beyond what we have. That's why we give a range.

That $10 million at the midpoint really does reflect kind of 19 levels, with a little bit of an uptick, like I said, in the casino asset.

Michael Carroll
Director of US Real Estate Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, great. Thank you.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Thanks, Michael.

Operator

Your next question is from the line of John Massocca from Ladenburg Thalmann. Your line is now open.

John Massocca
VP of Equity Research, Ladenburg Thalmann

Good morning.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Good morning, John. Hey, John.

John Massocca
VP of Equity Research, Ladenburg Thalmann

Given if I heard correctly, you're assuming 100% collection of ongoing rent from cash basis tenants. What kind of general hypothetical credit loss, if any, is assumed in guidance?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Well, you know, we generally put about, you know, 1%, just as a reserve. When I say 100%, there's still a little bit of ongoing deferrals with respect to small shop retail, and we do expect, you know, certain bad debt issues, but it's minor. It's kind of back to normal, if you will, and that's why we're not guiding to it. A hundred percent, it's near a hundred percent, but it's probably like more like 99% when you think about how we budget that.

John Massocca
VP of Equity Research, Ladenburg Thalmann

Okay. That's helpful. Then, I know you talked about the runway quite a bit for investment volume, but maybe just kind of longer term, and now we're in a more normalized collection environment, how are you thinking about leverage? You know, where is maybe the target range and where you're comfortable taking leverage? Has that changed at all, maybe versus when we were talking in early 2020? Just, any thoughts there?

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

No. You know, really, we really operate consistent with investment grade metrics at about 5.2-5.6. We're comfortably within that range, what we expect for 2022. That's the way kind of looking back at the company, it's kind of the way we've always run the company about that kind of mid to low fives. We expect that to continue to maintain that type of leverage, which is, like I said, consistent with our investment grade kind of metric, investment grade ratings that we get.

John Massocca
VP of Equity Research, Ladenburg Thalmann

Okay. That's it for me. Thank you very much.

Mark Peterson
EVP and CFO, EPR Properties

Thanks, John.

Operator

Your last question is from the line of Katy McConnell from Citi. Your line is now open.

Michael Bilerman
Managing Director, Citi

It's Michael Bilerman again. Greg, in your opening comments, you talked about sort of box office in 2019 and that, you know, there'll be no assurance that we'll ever achieve those again. You talked about the difference about highly productive locations versus, I guess, the average. I guess, how do you sort of see the industry evolving from a sort of total box office perspective? How granular is the differences gonna be between theater locations or geography relative to that 2019 base? I mean, how disparate do you think results are gonna emerge as we come out of this?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I think what we're trying to get to, Michael, is, let's say, again, if that was 11, if we get back, you know, in a couple of years, are we 9 or 10? How many theater locations have actually closed throughout this pandemic, and what number of screens are we talking about? I mean, we could find a scenario where the existing theaters that remain are actually more productive on a lower box office. I think you know, they've all made improvements in terms of expense margins and things of that nature, new ways to grow business. We continue to see F&B continuing to creep up and drive up. I think what I'm trying to say is I think we'll see some theater closures, some underperforming.

We've seen that already with theaters being repurposed or taken out of commission. I think that what I was trying to say is we believe that the business is going to stabilize and still be a very productive business. It just needs to kind of play out and see how all those dynamics work. Greg, maybe you have more.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

No, I think that's it. Increasing ramp up of product from Hollywood will help.

Mm-hmm.

Michael Bilerman
Managing Director, Citi

How about just alternative uses within the theaters? I, you know, I can recall pre-pandemic, we talked about corporate activities, live events, and a range of different things that those screens can be used for. Do you have any initiatives going on that would be able to increase sort of the revenue production out of each box?

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Yeah. I think there's a lot of things going on, especially if you look what things like Cinemark did with private events, things of that nature that you're seeing already kind of ramp up. If you see what their kind of performance was, I think you're seeing a lot of new and exciting kind of things. We've talked to people about some of these things where you're seeing kind of the pop-up virtual museum type thing, and how can they be incorporated into these spaces. I think you're gonna continue to see a lot of innovation and people trying to incorporate those ideas.

Michael Bilerman
Managing Director, Citi

Okay. Thanks. See you in a few weeks.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

Thank you, Michael.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

Thanks.

Operator

There are no further questions. Presenters, please continue.

Greg Silvers
President and CEO, EPR Properties

I just want to say thank you, everyone, and appreciate your time. We look forward to getting back to normal and I look forward to spending time and talking with you as we continue to grow. Thanks, everyone.

Greg Zimmerman
EVP and CIO, EPR Properties

Thank you.

Operator

With that, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

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