Great! Welcome, everyone. My name is Jessica Fye. I'm a Senior Biotech Analyst at J.P. Morgan, and we're continuing the healthcare conference today with Esperion. I'm joined up front by the company's CEO, Sheldon Koenig, and he's gonna give a presentation on the business, and then we're gonna go into Q&A. If you've got a question in the room, raise your hand, we'll give you a mic, or you can submit questions to me via the portal, and I'll read them off the iPad up here. So with that, let me pass it over to Sheldon.
Great. Thank you, Jess, and first of all, on behalf of Esperion, the company, thank you to J.P. Morgan for allowing us to have the opportunity to talk about Esperion. Really exciting business. We'll talk about that in a few seconds. Look forward to Q&A that you may have. So I think we're taking Q&A online and also in the room. There's a microphone that will be available in the room. So, thank you again for your attention. Forward-looking statement, I won't read it, although I was just joking that I would, before we came on, so, but I won't do it. So just to start from an investment highlight perspective, obviously, the cardiovascular market, especially from an LDL perspective, is a very attractive market.
This is a market where, with statin therapies alone and other lipid-lowering therapies, especially with the biomarker of LDL, this is over an $11 billion market. We have a very differentiated therapy with bempedoic acid, which again, is an ATP citrate lyase. And today, we'll be talking about what makes bempedoic acid a differentiated product, not only from a NEXLIZET and NEXLETOL perspective, which is our two commercialized products, which we'll be focusing on, but I'll also spend one slide just talking very briefly about our pipeline and what's to come up later in the year. NEXLETOL and NEXLIZET represent blockbuster potential. I'm here today representing Esperion. As you know, we also have partnerships with Daiichi Sankyo, who manage Europe and other parts of Asia, and also Otsuka of Japan.
But we believe that these products represent blockbuster potential worldwide, not only in the U.S., but also outside of the U.S. We have a very compelling pipeline, which I'll talk about later, as I mentioned. Strong intellectual property. We have patent protection up until 2031, and we're working on strategies to actually extend that to 2040. You'll hear later, I'll talk about the triple combination that Daiichi Sankyo will be pursuing, and that will actually allow them to have 10 years more of patent exclusivity to 2041 in Europe. By the way, that would also be 10 more years of royalty revenue that we had not been anticipating prior to the settlement with Daiichi Sankyo, our partner. We have a very experienced team.
I'll end my presentation with a slide of all of our pictures, and we also have a very competent scientific advisory board led by Dr. Peter Libby. So elevated bad cholesterol. Elevated bad cholesterol really came, I think, into focus, probably in the early 1990s, and then the introduction of lovastatin, which was Mevacor in 1991 by Merck & Co., my former employee. Cardiovascular disease is still the number one cause of death worldwide, and as I mentioned, a very large market. As a matter of fact, it accounts for one in three deaths in the U.S. and in Europe. It's pretty amazing that with all the therapies that are still out there today, if you think about all the statins, ezetimibe, PCSK9 inhibition, now our product, bempedoic acid, still the number one killer is cardiovascular disease.
That's because patients are just not getting to goal, or they're uneducated about LDL. There's a plethora of reasons of why this exists, and it's a passion of ours, or I should say, our company and myself, to say, "Hey, there's something that we can do about this." And we really believe that. And again, that's where we think the importance of bempedoic acid comes into play. So, as many of you know, we actually filed our label in the U.S. and also in the EMEA. I will focus on this slide, just really talking about the label in the United States. Our PDUFA date, we publicly stated this, is March 31st. It'll probably be more like March 28th because March 31st is Easter, so probably be a few days early. But the label expansion is very meaningful for us because it really increases the addressable market.
Currently today, with our current label, we actually have access to about 10 million patients. Some of you may have seen in mid-December, we actually had a, what I would call, harmonization by the FDA of our label, where two things occurred. One, we are allowed to address primary hyperlipidemia in ASCVD patients, and also our limitations of use was removed. What does that mean? It means that the FDA is acknowledging that we have outcomes data. Don't confuse that change with the change that's coming on March 31, which, as you can see by this cartoon, increases our patient population or our addressable market to 30 million patients.
And to do a quick breakdown on that, if you can't read it, 15 million of these high-risk patients are primary prevention, and nother $5 million are high risk, who have ASCVD, who would also qualify as primary prevention. Why is that important? I'll go into this a little bit in depth later, but primary prevention is something that will be in our label. And if you think about drug development, especially from an LDL perspective, the last drugs to show that they were effective in primary prevention were statins. So we'll actually be the first therapy since statins to show that we can actually be used in primary and secondary prevention, which is also very differentiating from PCSK9 therapy.... And again, the PDUFA date is March 31st, and as we've always been very consistent, this is a meaningful inflection point for us in our business as well.
So, this is, again, NEXLIZET and NEXLETOL. NEXLIZET is the combination of bempedoic acid plus ezetimibe. NEXLETOL is bempedoic acid. Just as a FYI, from a field representative perspective, selling the drug, this is a high, efficacious market where you want to present and show the drug that is, I should say, the leading efficacy, that's NEXLIZET. So we focus on marketing NEXLIZET to physicians. Just to give you an update, we've actually increased our sales force, actually effective two days ago. They're all in the field right now, some of them in training. We have 150 representatives. We're doubling our call deck from 10,000 physicians to 20,000 physicians. We're expanding the segmentation. We're not only calling on cardiologists, but we're also calling on primary care physicians.
What's important about that is many primary care physicians actually are seeing patients who'd qualify for primary prevention, and it's very difficult for primary care physicians to actually get PCSK9. They typically have to go through a referral process with cardiologists, and cardiologists usually say: "Well, why don't I see this patient? Why are you seeing them?" So, we feel really good about the 150 representatives. We've optimized the territories, and it's covering about 85%-90% of our potential. So the fit, you know, where do these drugs fit? And I think there's a lot of confusion. I think there were early in the days that, "Well, you're going to replace statins." Well, we're not looking to replace statins. That's not something that we're doing.
Matter of fact, our strategy is an add-on therapy for those patients who are taking a statin and who cannot get to goal, as I mentioned earlier, leading cause of death, patients aren't getting to goal. You can add NEXLIZET or NEXLETOL. In market research that we've done, we have shown that four out of five physicians and patients, honestly, they would rather prefer to take a small molecule or a pill versus an injectable. And I can tell you, having managed a PCSK9 for three years, that's the, that's the hardest thing, is training, convincing someone to do an injectable. It's much easier to use a pill. We have excellent managed care coverage. We have 90% coverage from a commercial perspective. We have about 40% coverage from a Medicare perspective. We think that's going to change once we have our new label.
We're actually right now working on addressing the utilization management criteria, which has been one of the, probably, the strongest headwinds for us of getting the drug used, and that's because we did not have outcomes data. So you, again, can see the importance of having an outcome study in the label. And the label change that we had in December gave us a head start to go to payers and actually have them start preparing. We actually have already had one large payer, whose name I can't mention, who's already made changes in anticipation of the label that will come out on March 31st. So it's a, it's a great fit. Right after statins, add NEXLIZET or NEXLETOL. Again, we're focusing on NEXLIZET, and I think the best way to think about it is: after a statin, we're next.
Yes, it's a play off of the name, but it works, and then people remember it. The CLEAR Outcomes study was a real game changer and still is a real game changer. It was this time last year, where Jess was asking me to reveal the data that we could not reveal, and we had to wait until ACC because of the fact that the data was embargoed. And I think there was a lot of questions around what are the numbers, et cetera. What I can tell you is that physicians, both prescribing physicians and key opinion leaders, have a lot of appreciation for the CLEAR Outcomes study and what it showed.
As a matter of fact, there was a publication that came out a few weeks ago that said that the CLEAR Outcomes study was one of, if not the game-changing study from a lipid-lowering perspective in all of 2023. So we felt really good about that. Unfortunately, I think what happened is then things got lost within the litigation. What do I mean by that? At the European Society of Cardiology, we had two late breakers, where one, we talked about the fact that, remember, there was a lot of diabetics in our study, 40% diabetics, 30% that were pre-diabetic. And what we showed is that the drug had no effect on glucose and also performed very well from the efficacy perspective in diabetics. We have been showing data throughout the year as it relates to the CLEAR Outcomes study.
We will continue to do that. Matter of fact, at ACC, I believe we're at the point of having over 5 abstracts accepted. Those will be embargoed, but this has been part of our commitment to continually roll out data as it relates to this study. So, definitely keep alert for that. The other thing that was lost right before ESC was at ADA, we rolled out our primary prevention data, which showed that we had a MACE 4 reduction of 30% and a MACE 3 reduction of 36%, and that was presented in abstract form by Dr. Steve Nissen at the American College of Cardiology, and this is the same data that will be inclusive in our label come March 31st. So I've said it once, but I'll say it again.
Again, this is the only LDL-lowering therapy since the introduction of statins that will both address primary and secondary prevention, which, as I've mentioned before, really expands our market opportunity. To give you an idea of where we are from a growth perspective, one of the commitments we made since we right-sized the organization back in October 2021 is we'd focus on two things, actually three: One, controlling our spend, which we've done a great job doing, thanks to our Chief Financial Officer, Ben Halladay, who's sitting in front of me. That we would continue growth, and that we would really focus on the CLEAR Outcomes study. And the one thing I will say is we've met all of those commitments.
I think there was a lot of thinking that after the presentation at ACC, yeah, you'll see an up ramp, but maybe scripts will die down a bit. We've shown continuous growth throughout 2023. We've created a lot of momentum in 2023 into 2024, and as you can see by the mountain graph on your right-hand side, you can see that continuous growth. We showed 33% growth year-over-year. When you look on a like-like basis, Q3 to Q3. Quarter-over-quarter, we've shown 8% growth. I think the best way to think about it is we've shown high single-digit to double-digit growth quarter-over-quarter, and that's without being able to talk about it. Remember, our representatives cannot talk about this study until it's in the label, so that time's coming.
In Europe, our partners, Daiichi Sankyo, are doing a great job, and that's something we've been very consistent about. I think there's a lot of questions around, well, with the litigation, how are things going? Things are going great. Our teams still met on a weekly basis. They talked about strategy. In Europe, they have a very different approach. They approach it... We have an add-on strategy. Their strategy, they speak to it as triple combination, even though they don't have a triple combination, product yet. But what they'll say, and I'm paraphrasing, is, "With this triple combination, your patient will be able to achieve goal." They've done a great job. This is only through August, and we know that they've even done more growth than this, but you can see that they have grown, 26%, over a quarter basis.
So they're really doing a good job. They're very committed to the product. We're actually heading to Germany the last week of January to have a marketing meeting, a manufacturing meeting, et cetera. So very happy with the performance. And again, this emphasizes the ability of working with a partner to make these drugs a global blockbuster that it is. So how will the label change? I spoke to it briefly, but this is either for your cameras or to listen. But the current label, I think the best way to think about it is it's very just focused on ASCVD, documented atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Remember, what the label will do is that regardless of ASCVD, you will have the ability to prescribe this drug in patients who have both primary and secondary prevention, who are at high risk.
The limitations of use, as I said, will be removed. They actually already have been removed. We'll also be able to speak about statin intolerance, and statin intolerance also is not just the fact that you can't take a statin, it's only you can take a limited dose of a statin. So I'll use myself as an example. I'm statin intolerant. I can only take 10 milligrams of rosuvastatin. I take NEXLIZET. I have an LDL of 50, which I needed to because I'm at high risk, and on a statin alone, I was at 89. So taking NEXLIZET took me down to 50. Now, you might be saying, "It just worked on you because you're the CEO," but no, we hear these messages from people in the field, from physicians.
I've been out in the field a lot, riding with representatives, and I've heard these stories myself. So again, this label will be meaningful. Hopefully, if you're going to be at ACC, we will be there. It's going to be essentially a launch of the label at ACC. For those of you who follow NASCAR, our car will be there, wrapped in both NEXLIZET and NEXLETOL, and you can have pictures taken. So unlocking blockbuster potential for NEXLETOL and NEXLIZET, three things: Data. We have the data with a clear outcome study. I won't go through the data again, but the data is robust. There's a lot of data that still will be published. I don't know how public it is, but we have a budget impact model that was just accepted by AMCP.
It actually won a Bronze Ribbon award, which will also show the cost-effectiveness of bempedoic acid. So stay tuned for the AMCP meeting, and we'll, of course, talk more about that. The label I mentioned, and just so everyone knows, and I think everyone knows this, in pharmaceutical marketing, it's all about the label. So we've spent a lot of time thinking about the label, what the label needs to look like. We've worked with the FDA, and we're confident we will get the label that we want. And we're confident that our partners, Daiichi Sankyo, will get the label that they want in order to be effective with the EMEA. Timing for EMEA label, by the way, is sometime in the first half of 2024. And then it comes down to something that we're really good at.
I'll brag on behalf of the team, and that is execution. That is just really getting out there, getting the message out there, working with key opinion leaders, using social media. I'm starting to really see the effectiveness of social media. For those of you who listen to Peter Attia, we've never spoken to him, but he talks a lot about bempedoic acid. Actually wrote about it in his book, and I was speaking to somebody last night who said: "I just heard Peter Attia talk about bempedoic acid, and I've got to look into that drug." So, you know, we're happy about that. We also have what's going to be a very interesting consumer campaign, which will be a digital campaign, which I believe will be very unique, and that will launch at the same time as our label. So I've talked about our partners.
Again, we're approved in 30 countries, not only with Daiichi Sankyo, but we have Otsuka. Otsuka is responsible for bempedoic acid in Japan. They are currently in phase III studies. Those studies should wrap up sometime in the end of 2024. And, keep in mind, there's milestones, $140 million worth of milestones that you'll see later that's also associated with the Otsuka registration and approval. So I mentioned this briefly, we have a really interesting pipeline. Again, the focus of this company is on NEXLIZET and NEXLETOL. With that said, though, we will have an R&D day sometime in the third quarter. We have a second-generation ATP citrate lyase, which is showing some very interesting signals in not only hyperlipidemia, of course, but cardiometabolic disease.
We're really focusing on liver and kidney, so things like polycystic kidney disease, orphan areas. What's really interesting, and there's a lot of literature out there, and I would ask you, if you have PubMed, you can do a PubMed search. There's some interesting work also on the ATP citrate lyase pathway and activity against certain tumor types. So we've been reluctant to speak about much of this due to intellectual property aspects, but we do have the IP that we need now, so stay tuned to that. We find that this data is very interesting and very compelling. Strong intellectual property, as I mentioned, we have patent protection both in the U.S. and Europe through 2031. We're actually working on different strategies to try to expand that to 2040. And, you know, we feel good about...
You know, this is a little bit more than seven years of patent exclusivity, so we feel really good about where we are in that position. This is our leadership team I mentioned earlier, and I think there's one more slide I want to talk to you about. This is our corporate update, actually, two more. Corporate update. So again, I won't dig too much into this. We announced this last week. We were able to have a settlement with our partner, Daiichi Sankyo. This is a beneficial settlement for both organizations. It allows us to focus on the business and to bring life-saving medications to the rest of the world, and all of us agree to that. This is something that is not only cash, but it's value.
So I think everyone looked at the headlines and said: "Oh, $125 million in cash?" Yeah. Well, $125 million is a lot of money to me. It's a nine-figure settlement, but it also allows for Daiichi Sankyo to take over manufacturing, and there are significant savings associated with manufacturing. This year alone, we spent close to $100 million to meet the needs of manufacturing for Daiichi Sankyo. They're only growing their product. So this is something in perpetuity from a savings perspective. The third pillar is the ability for Daiichi Sankyo to actually formulate and market a triple combination. So this would be bempedoic acid, plus ezetimibe, plus a statin, most likely atorvastatin.
This triple therapy, as I mentioned earlier, gives them 10 more years of patent exclusivity. I think what's really important about this, and I've seen the market research that they've done, and they're very excited about it, this could be, should be, the most efficacious LDL-lowering drug on the market in one pill. And there is actually a phase II study that was done looking at atorvastatin 20 milligrams, plus bempedoic acid, plus atorvastatin, that showed 64% LDL lowering, and this was in 43 subjects, and the safety was safe. And, I believe that was, Rubino et al., if you want to look that up in PubMed. So very exciting. Triple therapy combinations play well outside of the U.S., and I've seen it with Merck, with a combination of what was called Lipitor-Zetia, which was Lipitor and ezetimibe.
Although not a triple combination, that combination with a statin, ezetimibe, and now adding bempedoic acid, you know, is, will be very welcomed from the research we've seen. Our enhanced capital position, it really allows us to focus on future growth. We now have cash through 2025. Our cash and cash equivalents as of Q3 2023 was $115 million. The milestone for the Japanese submission and regulatory events from Otsuka is $140 million. As a reminder, Q3, our net product revenue was $20 million. That represented 45% growth year-over-year. Our key financial data, the only guidance we'll be giving today, is really not different from guidance that we've given before. Keep in mind, we don't have the CLEAR Outcomes study anymore, and that was, obviously very costly.
A full-year 2024 R&D guidance is $45 million-$55 million. Our SG&A guidance is between $180 million and $190 million, and our full-year 2024 OpEx guidance is $225 million-$245 million, relatively not different from 2023. So with that, I just want to thank everybody for your participation and your attention, and I'm happy to take questions.
Great. Thanks for the presentation. Maybe before we start thinking kind of forward-looking, I did just want to come back to, you know, one of the points you made in the presentation about utilization management having been one of the toughest headwinds for the NEXLETOL launch so far. And just to make sure we all kind of understand, can you just elaborate on what those management criteria were and kind of, I guess, where you see them going?
Yeah. So utilization management criteria is essentially something that a physician has to do when they're doing a prior authorization. And some of the hurdles, I'll give you a few examples, are: Have you tried the patient on a statin? Yes, they were unable to get to an LDL. Okay, could you go to a higher dose? Did you try a second statin? Did you add a statin with ezetimibe? So that's one example of making it very difficult. Another one is probably the most extremely difficult, is ASCVD. So, Jess, I don't know your cholesterol, but I have documented ASCVD. Let's say that you don't. So I get prescribed bempedoic acid, and because I've documented ASCVD, and my managed care, who for us is Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, says, "That's great!
Yeah, you can get the drug." You come in, you have high LDL, and for the record, we don't know if you do, and I want to control your LDL, so I'm going to provide. I'm the same doctor. I'm gonna prescribe you bempedoic acid because I know it works, and it's rejected. And as a physician, I'm angry about that because I know it will work, but I can't get it. So it's very, it's very limiting, but that's an example. Payers, we pay the rebates based upon the label that exists today, and they follow that label. And that's why the patient, you know, the available population right now is $10 million.
That's why it expands so much to $30 million because now you don't have to titrate through a statin, you don't necessarily have to step edit through ezetimibe, and you can go right to the drug. And for those patients who can't take a statin at all, pure statin intolerance, they can go to bempedoic acid, and there's a lot of patients who fit in that category.
So is this shift gonna be all teed up for when you get the label expansion, these automatically fall away so that you're not going with a big push into the marketplace and kind of bumping into those issues?
It takes payers somewhere between 30, 60, or 90 days to actually make those changes in their system. Well, I didn't mention the name, but there's one payer who's ahead of the speed here, and they've made those changes. You might say, "Why can't they just make the changes now?" And the reason for that, and it's fair, is they really want to see the label. A payer will say to you, "Yeah, everyone says they're gonna get this label or that label, then we see it, and that's not the label that it is." But we're confident the label we're getting is the label we're getting, but we have all of our appointments set up and ready to go. And after the CLEAR Outcomes study, we met with all of these payers just to let them know what they were expecting.
Now, what's great is we're actually gonna supply a bridging program that is relatively gonna cost us nothing, that will allow, with payers, the fact that they're changing their systems, it'll be a group that will help with the prior authorization and still get that patient their medication based on the new label.
Got it. So you also talked about increasing the sales force to enable you to call on, I think, 20,000 doctors, up from about 10, and kind of within that expansion, being able to call on primary care. I always thought this was kind of like a perfect drug profile for primary care, right? Like, once-daily pill-
Yeah
... not a lot of side effects.
Yeah.
So how did you determine, you know, the number or the type of primary care physicians that you're going after, and the number of reps that you wanna have to kind of, you know, cover them?
Sure. So, there's a company out there called ZS. They're based in Chicago. Most, if not all, pharmaceutical companies use them, and there's a process of optimizing territory placement, and some of the elements that go into that optimization are windshield time. So for instance, in Delaware, you have one representative. In Florida, you have four, 'cause, you know, you just can't have these folks driving all over the place. And then from a physician perspective, it's really looking at who are high potential at prescribing based on their statin use, their use of ezetimibe, and the same is true for not only primary care, but cardiologists. I would dare to say my fellow companies who are also in the lipid-lowering market, they do their targeting the same exact way.
If I had to guess, if we did an overlay of our call deck with their call deck, it would probably be 95% the same, so.
Got it. You mentioned the digital consumer campaign, and I'm curious kind of how you think about when the right time is to go direct to consumers versus, like, some lead time of, like, spending time messaging to physicians so that when you know, the patient comes in and-
Yeah, no, this is great. So what we noticed at the American College of Cardiology is not only did we have a big push by physicians, we had a big push by consumers. Part of it was because we had over 1 billion impressions from ACC. It was on the nightly news, it was on Good Morning America, it was everywhere. It was in magazines, etc. So we're gonna go right away. When the label comes out, we're gonna use this digital approach. It will encompass emails, of course. It'll also be things that will appear on websites. The creator of this is the same creator of SpongeBob SquarePants, which is very unique. Not the guy who did the voice or anything, but animation, etc.
And I think it's gonna be something that's memorable, and I would dare to say it'll be as memorable as what two sources of cholesterol, as I mentioned to you, was for Zetia and Vytorin. So it'll be very different, very unique, and we think it's an opportunity that we can push on right away. Because a lot of patients and consumers, they either don't want to take a statin or they don't like a statin, or they don't want to take a low dose, but they also are worried about their cardiovascular health. Well, okay, you have another option, something that can help you. You don't have to increase your dose, or you can go on bempedoic acid alone, and they, they want to know about it. So yeah, we'll go right away. And it's, again, it's not direct-to-consumer.
Direct-to-consumer advertising on TV can cost $200 million. We obviously don't have that kind of money. But doing something digitally is very inexpensive, and that we can, you know, attack right away.
Got it. I wanted to come back to the settlement. I think you made a comment about spending close to $100 million on manufacturing product for Daiichi in 2023, which, you know, is sort of like rivaling NEXLETOL's U.S. revenue in 2023. Do you know, like, why so much? Like, how is that possible?
Yeah, they have more. And I rounded up. It's probably more like $86 million, but it's going to be $100 million and more year-after-year. They've been very successful from a launch perspective, and they give us a forecast. There's a lead time of 9 months-12 months to manufacture the product for them, and they give us their tablet forecast, and we can see the growth that they see. You know, I think the best analogy is if you take a look at drugs like ezetimibe. Ezetimibe in the U.S., before it went off patent, was doing $4 billion. In Europe, it was equally doing $4 billion. So it's a big market for them, Europe, and then the ASEAN regions, which are Asia.
So, when you take a look at, you know, the inventory they need, the working capital, et cetera, it, it adds up. The reason why it's increasing so exponentially as well, starting in 2024 and moving forward, is the CLEAR Outcomes study and what they'll have in their label. They also have state-of-the-art facilities at Daiichi Sankyo. I'll actually be going to their one facility in Germany at the end of January. So they have a lot of capacity to do this as well. Not, you know, to separate from your question, but, you know, I think, again, it just gives you an idea of how, you know, they want to do it because they know how important it is, and they can do it in-house.
Great. You flashed up a pipeline slide, which isn't something I think many people talk about-
Yeah
... for Esperion, but I'm curious how a next-generation ATP citrate lyase inhibitor would potentially improve upon NEXLETOL?
Well, I don't know if it would actually improve upon NEXLETOL because we feel the efficacy for NEXLETOL and NEXLIZET are very good right now. It's more of understanding the pathway of ATP citrate lyase in these other diseases, and it's more focused on that versus optimizing the LDL efficacy. I think the LDL efficacy of what we have with bempedoic acid is going to be what it is. But the fact that this drug is almost a platform, for lack of better words, and can, you know, be effective in these different areas, is very important. And, there's been a lot of science around this.
Jess, you may recall, about a year and a half ago, we tried to do an R&D day, and I will admit it was a mistake 'cause all anyone was interested in was CLEAR Outcomes, and we didn't have the results. It kind of got lost in what we were trying to do. This year, we already have the CLEAR Outcomes data out on the market. We won't be going through litigation, and we can actually focus on this. But this will be a scaffolding to pick the right molecule as well, to look at these different indications, so.
Maybe the last one before we wrap up. You know, you gave the 2024 OpEx guidance. I think we have a good sense of what this product did in 2023, with a label expansion coming up. So it makes you wonder how soon this company could get to, you know, operating profitability and then kind of margin expansion from there. How do you think about that?
I think about it from a perspective that we're closer than what people think. Ben and myself have spent a lot of time at the J.P. Morgan meeting, talking to different folks as well, just, you know, giving them that message. But, you know, I think we've been, and we've demonstrated how responsible we are from managing our cash. Now, this new cash infusion of $125 million goes a long way, as we've mentioned before. We are not giving guidance, but we're very comfortable where consensus is in 2024. And again, I think the best way to summarize break even is we are getting much closer.
Great. Stop there. Thank you.
Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.