Good morning. Welcome to the 26th Annual Needham Growth Conference. My name is Chris Pierce, working in the Needham Research Department, covering electrification, EVs, and EV charging. It's my pleasure to welcome Badar Khan from EVgo, new president and CEO. Thanks for coming.
Thank you.
Appreciate having you.
Thanks, Chris.
Why don't we jump right into this morning's press release?
Yes.
Network throughput, it accelerated beyond the acceleration that consensus was forecasting, and the growth in my model looks like 250% growth year-over-year. Can you frame sorta the growth, what's driving it, and what's driving the accelerating growth? And then not just the accelerating growth sequentially, but you framed on the press release, December growth or December utilization of 19%, which is up significantly versus just September. So sorta, what are you seeing out there? What's driving this?
Thank you, Chris, first of all, for having me. Let's just take a step back and talk about where we were in November.
Okay.
In November, we announced our Q3 results, which showed very strong growth in throughput, significantly outpacing the growth in vehicles in operation.
Okay.
In November, we said that on the back of that strong growth in our core owned and operated business, we're increasing our guidance for the full year. What we announced this morning is that we expect to meet or exceed that elevated guidance that we provided in November for full year 2023. We also announced, as you have just talked about, our throughput for FY 2023, around 130 GWh, and utilization. That compares to around 44-45 GWh for full year 2022.
Okay.
So it's an ongoing, very significant increase in throughput, again, exceeding vehicles on the roads. We also talked about utilization in December, over 19% versus 15% in September. So your question is, why
Yeah
Are we seeing all of this growth? I think a number of different factors. So first of all, we are seeing a growth in vehicles in operation. We've seen a growth in VIO, year-over-year. In 2021, we saw about 500,000 new BEV sales. In 2022, it was 800,000. Last year, it was about 1.2 million. So it's a 50% growth rate. But that's just the kind of foundation. On top of that, we're seeing behavioral change, so we're seeing vehicle miles traveled for a customer that owns an EV to be almost at parity or at parity with a customer that drives an ICE. That's a change that we've been seeing over time. So that explains the increase, partially.
Okay.
We're also seeing customer mix changes. So, as more EVs are being brought to the market, they tend to be a little more affordable, and that tends to attract people that don't own their own private driveway and therefore rely on public charging and therefore DC fast charging. We're also seeing, in terms of mix, the growth in rideshare. In Q3, we talked about rideshares. So these are Uber and Lyft drivers.
Yep.
The growth in rideshare volumes grew fivefold, is what we announced in Q3, year over year, and so we're continuing to see some very strong rideshare, growth. Lastly is technology. So we're seeing, you know, more EVs that are being brought to the market today have higher charge rates, and so that's more kilowatt hours per minute that they spend at the charger. And also more EVs that are being brought to the market tend to be a little some of them tend to be a little heavier, a little less efficient, and so more kilowatt hours
Okay
P er mile that they expect to drive. When you combine all of those factors together, we're seeing some very strong growth, as you said, in both throughput across the network, and utilization at 19% for December. And that is an important. The utilization number is important. It reflects both growth in throughput, but also, efforts that we have in place to encourage utilization across all hours of the day.
Okay.
So we have pricing. We've got time of use pricing that encourages off-peak charging. We've got, you know, again, rideshare customers that are increasingly charging at off-peak hours. We've got a reservation facility that allows customers to book ahead of time. There's quite a lot of innovation that's going on around encouraging people to charge throughout the day. And again, I just. We've talked about this before, but we've got some very rigorous underwriting criteria where we assume utilization levels before we proceed with the charger to generate double-digit returns to install a charger in the low 20% range. So the fact that we've got a network-wide utilization over 19% is very encouraging for us.
Okay. So starting at the top-down level, you know, there's been investor pessimism towards
Mm
EV growth in terms of the vehicle side of the world, but you're talking about 50% growth year-over-year, and we haven't seen that level of growth in EV chargers, you know, out in the wild in the United States. So that's sorta, to kinda go back to the first point you made, more vehicles on the road, and then the driver behavior of those vehicles is changing as well. So those drivers are driving more, whether it's rideshare or other drivers, the other
Driver mix and driver behavior.
Okay. Okay.
That's right. Just in terms of EVs, the majority, you know, we for a long time have been charging all vehicle models.
Yep.
But the majority of our drivers, our customers, tend to be non-Tesla.
Okay
D rivers. Over the course, we saw roughly a 50% increase in EV sales between 2023 to 2022 overall, BEV sales in the United States. Non-Tesla sales. We're up significantly more than that.
Okay.
You know, close to 80% or more.
Okay. And are those the right KPIs if you think about the longer term for EVgo? It's owned and operated stalls and usage or utilization of those stalls that drive sort of the revenue mix? Or is that. Do I have that right? Is that the re- versus I know you sell equipment in the eXtend revenue line, but that's a little lumpier and harder to model.
That's right. So we announced this morning also that, given, you know, these very compelling growth rates in our owned and operated business, that we've been seeing for a number of quarters now, including this last quarter, we have simplified and streamlined some of our operation
Yeah
To allow us to focus our growth on our core owned and operated business, which is, as we've just said, leveraged to the adoption of EVs.
Okay. And can you talk about utilization and how it might relate to pricing power on the network in terms of there's a lot more vehicles on the road, electric vehicles on the road, driver behavior is changing, but EV charger station growth hasn't kept up with EV charging. Does that relate? Like, is it right to tie those two together?
Yeah, well, we're talking about throughput here as opposed to
Yeah. Well, pricing power on the gigawatts you're selling.
That's right, yeah. But now. And so, well, today, we talked about our throughput growth.
Yep.
We also said that we expect our full year 2023 results to meet or exceed guidance that we increased in the Q3 call.
Okay.
So, when you talk about pricing power, that relates to revenue
Yep
- that is beyond just throughput.
Okay.
So we've got some, you know, I think we're still in the early innings with respect to pricing sophistication. We have today in this. You know, we're expecting to see a tenfold growth in chargers over the next several years. But in terms of pricing sophistication, we have time of use pricing, we have location-based pricing, we've got membership programs, we've got off-peak/on-peak pricing, and I think I'd expect to see that sophistication in pricing to continue to evolve over the course of time.
Okay. And then just lastly, since on the press release, and you touched on it, what specifically on rideshare, what's driving the growth in. You know, we hear Uber and Dara talk about, we want more, you know, going green, more drivers driving EVs. Is that directly correlated, and these drivers are making decisions on their own personal vehicle? Is that sort of the right way to think about that?
I think that's the right way to think about it. I think, in addition, we've said before that we see rideshare drivers driving typically three-five times more miles than the average commuter. And so in our network, we're seeing more, drivers that are rideshare drivers who are driving more miles and therefore using our chargers more.
Okay.
And again, I think that you'd have to look at people like Uber and Lyft and what their expectations are for the amount of their drivers that are likely to be fully electric vehicle drivers in out of their driver base.
Okay. Okay. And then moving beyond this morning's announcement, if we kind of think top-down. So I've kind of got this question for all the EV companies here: Investor attitudes towards EV adoption have been very volatile. In 2021, it was euphoria; 2023, we'd call it the opposite of that. How do you think about EV adoption, and how does that sort of drive the business, and what do you look at regularly? Is it EV adoption, or do you look at throughput on the network? Like, what do you look at? Like, what are some KPIs you look at the end of each day?
Yeah, I mean, look, we just spent quite a bit of time talking about throughput-
Yeah
on the network, and throughput for our core owned and operated business drives revenue times price. So it's a, it's an incredibly important driver for the business. And we've just talked about the fact that our throughput growth is, you know, significantly exceeding the growth in the vehicles on the roads.
Okay.
So vehicles on the roads are, of course, a driver of the business. And so, you know, you talked about top-down, when I take a big step back.
Yep
Transportation emissions in the United States. Transportation emissions are the largest source of emissions in the United States. And so I'd expect to see, regardless of what happens in the, you know, month to month or, kind of near term, I'd expect to see continued policy and societal progress towards decarbonization of transportation and therefore the electrification of transportation in the long term. That said, as a major backdrop, I've already shared the fact that we've seen 1.2 million, approximately-
Yeah
1.2 million EVs sold, of which non-Tesla EVs grew at roughly 80%, which is, of course, the majority of our drivers. So I think that vehicles EV sold is, is obviously a, a driver of, of the business that we think about long term for our core owned and operated business, which is what our announcement this morning talked about. We're, we're, we're focusing, reallocating some of our resources and focusing more of our people towards growing the core owned and operated business.
Okay. Okay. We'll talk about the eXtend business in a little bit, but since you mentioned Tesla, you know, we saw these OEMs announce NACS, the North American Charging Standard compliance, last year. And just love to get your first-level thoughts, second-level thoughts, how you're thinking about it now, as it's kind of an unknown what happens to Tesla's supercharging stations as other vehicles can go there. But then the flip side of that is what happens to non-Tesla chargings, charging stations as, in theory, Tesla charging stations get more crowded. So kind of how do you think about, you know, what the OEM decision-making, what do you think drove it, and what do you think it mean-- could mean for your business?
Look, I think that getting to a standard on the cable is a good development for the industry. I think it results in elimination of either confusion or some anxiety for customers that might have been on the fence.
So that means driving EV growth at the top of the company.
Driving EV growth at the top line. I expect to see that to occur. I think at a micro level for our business, we've been charging Tesla vehicles, and we are able to charge Tesla vehicles. Being able to retrofit some of the cables that are CCS cables to add Tesla NACS connectors is not a big lift. We've talked before that that's, you know, relatively immaterial in the context of the CapEx per stall, so we're quite comfortable there.
Okay. Okay. And then, so just kind of going back to. I know we spent a lot of time on utilization. Can we spend a little bit of time on EVgo eXtend revenues?
Mm-hmm.
You know, primarily, if I think about you guys in the future, it'll be sites and utilization of those sites. But while waiting on utilization, you've got the eXtend business, where you're selling equipment to third parties. So, why did you guys decide to kind of go into that line of business? How does that line of business drive the model right now, and how should investors think about that, the longer tail of those revenues?
Yeah. So just pick up on more. You said while we're waiting for growth in utilization, and we were at 19% over 19% utilization in December, up from 15%. Our underwriting, our rigorous underwriting criteria that looks at sites at a census block level, and it's proprietary algorithms that take into account all kinds of data, from current penetration of EVs, future EV sales, energy costs, levels of grants, O&M costs, all of these things, to be able to underwrite a stall. We assume utilization levels in the low 20% range, and so getting to 19% across the network is obviously something I'm very pleased with. In terms of the-
Can you just, when you, when you say assumed low twenties, was that an assumption that was in the model for 2026, 2027? Like, how-
We get to a sustainable level of utilization.
Okay.
So we expect to see in our modeling, utilization ramp up over time, getting to a level of the, t hat's what we've been underwriting-
Okay.
a conservative 20%-25%. It may be that, that is, in fact, not gonna be realistic, and we'll be able to exceed that.
Okay.
We're already seeing utilization levels ahead of what we were expecting when we did the underwriting, and that's obviously very positive. With respect to the eXtend business-
Actually, I'm sorry. Can I stop you?
Yes.
Before we go to eXtend then
Mm-hmm.
Since we're talking about what you had utilization you had underwritten.
Mm-hmm.
Can you go into underwriting into the sense of you own and operate these stalls?
Yes.
So you buy the land or rent the land, and then you pay. You put in the equipment, and then there's a payback period, and there's depreciation sort of. How does that flow into the model in the sense of what you were expecting versus what you're seeing?
Yeah. So we have underwriting criteria that requires us to be at, you know, healthy double-digit returns before we proceed with a site. The level of forecast utilization is one component alongside a whole bunch of factors around revenue, around O&M costs, energy costs, the capital, the availability of grants and offsets to offset some of that capital. So it's a fairly rigorous, you know, disciplined process. With respect to, your question was around utilization, you know, utilization.
Yeah, I just want to get a sense of how should investors think about the cost outlay and then the revenue generation the payback period
Yeah
On these stalls, and what does this morning's press release mean for prior expectations about what the payback period was versus where those expectations should be post this morning's press release?
Yeah, we expected an economic life of around 10 years for these stalls and a payback period that's, you know, just under half of that timeline.
Okay.
And so getting these utilization levels at where we're at today is obviously a very positive development for us. Does that answer your
Yeah!
answer your question?
I just wanted to make sure I fully understand that there was an expectation in the model based on a payback period, but the larger conversation we had to start based on the press release, things are coming in. Utilization is ahead of where I, you know, I had modeled and kind of where you guys were thinking, is the right way to think about it.
And that's the right way to think about it.
Okay.
It's a component of the underwriting, clearly.
Yeah
But it's not the only thing.
Yes. Okay. We're about a little close to the halfway point. If anyone has any questions from the room, feel free to kind of raise your hand, and I'll repeat the question so those in the webcast can hear it. But, just wanna make sure people in the room have a chance to ask a question as well. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi.
Hi.
What is the break-even percent utilization on a particular stall, on an average stall? You talk about 19% utilization across, and that includes new ones. So what is the break-even, where you can then? And then what is assumed in your model for your 10-year and the 5-year payback and the 10-year life?
The question is
What utilization you assumed?
The question is around where break-even utilization would be on a per stall basis.
Yeah. So we underwrite to healthy double-digit returns at a site level, and the level of utilization at a particular site will vary depending upon that site, because there will be other factors, energy costs, the availability of grants or offsets that may be higher or lower, depending upon the site. Broadly speaking, when we look at the network overall, we were expecting utilization to be in the low 20% range to get to double-digit returns at the site level. That's it. That's how we've been thinking about underwriting, and so we're
So shouldn't you be at profitability or close to break-even at 19%, if low double-digit, 20% would get you to
orry, low 20% would get you to your, your, target?
I mean, we are growing the network, and so, we're increasing the number of stalls that we're deploying every quarter.
Yeah.
There is a lag time before all your stalls get to a level of utilization that is attractive. But it's, We're seeing some, as you, we've just been discussing, some very strong growth in our core owned and operated business. We expect to help you understand the growth in our margins for our core owned and operated business, and how that is ramping up versus our G&A, so you can understand for yourself the point at which we'll become EBITDA breakeven for the business in the coming quarters.
Okay. eXtend revenues.
eXtend revenues.
Okay.
Yes. Yeah.
So you've got the owned and operated side of the business, which we can keep discussing, but you've also got the eXtend business that you're kind of running now, and I don't want to frame it while you're waiting on growth because I appreciate 15%-19%. So let's talk about the eXtend business line, what that does for your top line, what that does for margins, kind of how it's different than the owned and operated business.
So the eXtend business, we build and operate the stalls on behalf of customers. Our biggest customer is the Pilot Flying J and GM contract. These are truck stop locations across the country. We have an agreement with them to install about 2,000 stalls at up to 500 sites across the country. As of FY 2023, we've got about 100 stalls operational. The eXtend business, so it is not leveraged to EV adoption, which we've just spent the last 20 minutes talking about. We're delighted to see the growth in our core owned and operated business, and that's why we're focusing on it more in our terms of future growth. But it is a business that generates some nice, healthy returns. It's a capital-light business.
And so we're, you know, we're delighted with it. We're actually very pleased with our relationship with the Pilot Flying J companies. We've got stalls that we're operating that offer some very interesting and very attractive benefits to customers. So 24/7 amenities, canopies, you know, pull-through stalls, you know, restroom facilities. So these are experiences that we think we're very proud of, and we think our customers are very proud of, and our customers are rating very highly. So we're very excited about the progress of that relationship.
One thing I would say that's really been very these are very early days, but these are some interesting results as a result of that Pilot Flying J relationship, where, typically, we think of, you know, 75% of customers charging their vehicles within 25 miles of their home.
Yeah.
Pilot Flying J customers, it's about 25%, charging within 25 miles from home of their home because these are highway corridor charging. What's interesting, and again, this is early data based on the customers that we've seen so far, approximately, 40% of our PFJ customers had never charged at an EVgo owned and operated location prior to showing up at a PFJ location. Of those, over 90% have gone on to charge at an EVgo owned and operated location. So there's a beneficial
Yeah
R elationship between that eXtend business and driving the growth of our core owned and operated sites. So we're, we're very pleased with that.
So
Long term, as I've said before, with our announcement this morning, we are reallocating some of our resources, and we're prioritizing efforts to focus on, furthering, you know, growing the core owned and operated business, whic
Okay
We're delighted to see.
Is it right to think about there's a level of if you build it, they will come? Because you talked about on your network, 75% of the people live within 25 miles. On the Pilot Flying J network, 25% of the people
It's highway corridors.
Yeah. So these are trips that EVs, ex-Tesla, unless you had a Tesla, you couldn't take this trip before or it would be very difficult to take this trip. So this is something that if you think about the U.S. NEVI program, and the goal of the NEVI program was to push EV adoption, and I know we said early days a couple of times, but it seems like this is sort of getting consumers to trust the vehicles more and get out on the roads and take longer trips. Is that the right way to frame it?
I think that's the right way to frame it.
Okay.
I think the government program around NEVI for highway corridor charging is encouraging folks to purchase an EV. One of the many things to encourage people to purchase an EV, and the Pilot Flying J stalls is straight down that objective, which I think is helpful for an EV adoption again.
Okay. And why would someone like Pilot Flying J or other partners that you have, why would they want to buy the charger from you? And I think I know the answer. It's around owning the customer, but, like, does that preclude you from having an owned and operated site within ten miles of that Pilot Flying J? How do you, how do you think about utilization on those networks where you're selling the equipment? Is it 'cause it doesn't fit your model? Or like, how, how, how do you decide, yes, I wanna move forward with this eXtend model, even though I won't get the longer-term kilowatt hours revenues from it?
Typically, when we think about that, and specifically in the case of the Pilot Flying J relationship, we felt that those locations would not pencil to the double-digit returns that we set, the disciplined returns that we have in our site selection.
When you say would not pencil, is it because the payback period was longer? O r just because of where the, it's not a zip code with high EV adoption, that type of thing?
It'll be because of the utilization on those sites.
Okay.
Right. Our strategy has been, and continues to be, to deploy our owned and operated locations at convenient, well-located locations where customers are going about their lives. So they're going to get their nails done, they're going to get some food, they're going retail shopping, and so they're going about their lives. They're not going to charge, but they're going to live their lives, and there happens-
Okay
T o be an EVgo charger there. That's what our strategy is. That's what's generating the throughput per stall that we're delighted to see. The where we would be thinking about an eXtend site is if we didn't expect to see the double-digit returns that we are looking at. For a customer, they will think about their economics differently. First of all, many of them may not want to be in that business, just to be clear, to be in the business of owning and operating a charging network where your revenue is reliant upon the sale of kilowatt hours.
Yeah.
That's not gonna be everyone's business when the customers are thinking about their capital allocation priorities. But secondly, they'll have different factors. They will own, potentially own the land, and so that expense that we incur and we think about in our underwriting, they may not have. They may be thinking about, you know, the sale of ancillary, you know, revenue and products and services that are associated with a customer coming to their location, which obviously we don't capture because we don't own the site. We're not selling the groceries or other work. So there'll be a different set of economics that they will think about.
When we have very strong relationships with over 35 strategic partners that are national and kinda local, regional across the country, and we've got about today, about 10,000 sites that pencil to our returns, and so that's the- that is what we're getting after. These are sites that we expect to be owned and operated-
Okay
For our business.
So if we're writing the story of the future of EVgo, it's about the owned and operated sites and utilization. And I don't wanna short shrift the eXtend business, but the eXtend business is something that's a little more, over the next couple of years, like as NEVI sort of plays out or as Pilot Flying J pulls out- puts thoughts out there, it's more shorter term in nature versus the longer term business model. Is that the correct way of line of thinking?
Look, I think that I think we've got to remember in the long, you know, what does long term really mean?
Yeah.
By 2030, we're expecting vehicles in operation to grow from what, around 3.3 million today, give or take, to 35 million. DC fast charging grow from, you know, 30,000+ chargers to probably 300,000 fast chargers by 2030, and then another level of growth by 2040. And so, you know, our announcement today was talking about how do we accelerate the growth of the business to achieve our, our sort of targets around profitability, and growth, and we think that we can do that by focusing on our in this period of time, our core owned and operated business.
Okay.
Over the longer term, there are many use cases for customers. There are many types of customers, some of which we've been, you know, getting after in the last couple of years, and I expect to continue to offer those sorts of things in the very long term.
When you think about, you had said 10,000 sites to the pencil.
Mm-hmm.
What's the right way to think about. You know, there are other companies that might be, you know, they're pulling DMV data as well. They see EV adoption, they see higher zip income zip codes, and they think that's an interesting location as well. How do you kinda Is it a race to build in that location? And what happens in that location when a, a second provider, a second operating stall goes in or something like that? And how do you think about when you look at the 19% utilization, and I'm assuming you have some that are in the 30s even, do you think, I need to put another stall in there? How modular is that? Or, you know, another competitor might be putting in a platform, you know, 6 blocks away. How does that sort out? How should investors think about, you know, saturation?
Again, we are in the early innings
Okay
O f a sector that is going through a, you know, enormous growth. What I would say is, and what I've seen I've been on the board of EVgo for about since May of 2022. I took over as CEO two months ago, as you know. I've seen some, you know, financial discipline in many different ways, one of which is the site selection that we've just talked about and the underwriting criteria. I also see financial discipline in the way that we're deploying capital, and so we are reliant we're minimizing shareholder capital in when we deploy our stalls.
We said in our Q3 call that 45% of the capital that's required to deploy a retail owned and operated stall comes from sources outside of shareholder funds, so that's OEM payments, and all the rest of it. So that's how we look at it.
Okay.
Others may have that same level of financial discipline in the way that they're deploying capital and the way they're determining whether to deploy stalls. That's how we think about it. I think in an environment where you've got a tenfold growth in charging stations between now and 2030, I think there's a lot of room for growth.
Okay. Okay. We have about 10 minutes left. Is there any other questions from the room?
Yeah. Yeah. How many, how many stalls, if that's the best measure?
Mm
D o you have today, and how many will you have in 2030? 'Cause you were citing industry numbers. And what % is that of the non-Tesla stalls out there? I just
The question is around stalls
Stalls
EVgo stalls, EVgo stalls in the future versus Tesla stalls.
Yeah. So there are over 30,000 stalls that are operational in the United States today. We've, as we said today, we announced this morning, we've got over 3,500 in operation or in construction today.
Can you just break down stalls versus ports?
S talls?
Yeah. Well, there's like 160,000 ports though, right? Stalls versus. Are you saying you have 3,500 stalls, but how many car. Is that for 3,500 cars or that
One port per stall.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's right. So,
By 2030, what could that be for you relative to the industry? I'm just wondering if you're gonna be gaining share or losing share.
Well, I think that depends on what our growth rate is, which we haven't provided any guidance. It also depends on what everybody else's growth rate is, which I don't know anybody really knows, and so
A good way to ask.
That's right. Yeah. But, you know, we are, as I said before, we are, I see, as coming on board as CEO two months ago, discipline in the way that we're deploying our capital, discipline in whether we deploy a stall. I also see discipline in our operational management. So, an example, this morning's announcement is an example of that, where we're simplifying and reallocating resources towards the part of the business that is growing the most. I think where we have the most competitive advantage, this business of owning and operating, through, you know, the very rigorous network planning, siting, permitting, relationships with OEMs, relationships with granting authorities, relationships with utilities, is not something that can be pulled off overnight.
And so that is a, I think, a set of competitive advantage that we have, and so we're focusing on that. I think that is an example of discipline in the business, and I expect that we'll continue to do that over the coming years.
Can you talk about EVgo ReNew? What happens when you have a stall that's putting out 50 kilowatts per hour, and you upgrade it to a stall that can put out 150 kilowatts per hour? Like, what do you see on the network after that happens, and kind of what do you gain after that outlay?
Yeah. So our EVgo ReNew program, we put in place to look at those stalls that were, you know, performing the poorest, whether that's because of reliability or whether that's, you know, other factors that might be impacting the stall's performance. And so we have a program where we either repair or replace those stalls. It's relatively non-material in the context of the total capital that we deploy. But again, it goes back to discipline. Whether we expand a stall to add more ports, a site to add more ports or build a new site or renew a site, we'll be disciplined around whether that makes sense for us, and of course, delivering a great experience for our customers.
Typically, where we are renewing or replacing, repairing or replacing, it's those stalls where we've got, you know, legacy, older stalls that have some reliability issues that we want to clean out for our customers.
Okay. It might just be the Tesla news, since they're all Level 3 DC fast charging last year, but DC fast charging seems to have taken kind of the lion's share of investor kind of conversations. Is it that? Do you see, you know, if you think about Bloomberg NEF or whatever is out there for predictions, do you think we're sitting on, if you look at the 90-10 split or 80-20, do you think DC is gonna take a larger percentage of the share versus prior expectations because it's just faster and consumers kind of are demanding that? Or is that sort of just my overreading into kind of what's going on out there?
I think that, so, some of you may have better, industry estimates than I have, but my understanding is that DC Fast Charging is in the 10%-15% of the kilowatt hours, sold, in the United States. I would expect, and we, you know, our strategy has been to deploy, DC Fast Charging
Yeah
Stalls in convenient locations. The growth in throughput that we're seeing above VIO growth, I think, is a reflection of an increasing share of DC fast charging. Again, I think, as time goes on, more models are being brought out that are more affordable, and, that results in people buying cars who don't have private driveways and therefore rely on public charging, and DC fast charging is a component of that. I think an existing car today that is owned by a new car buyer today, when it gets traded and becomes a used car, the owner is a used car buyer, it's likely that that owner is gonna be less affluent and therefore less likely to have a private driveway, and therefore more reliant on DC fast on public charging, and therefore DC fast charging. We talked about the rideshare growth.
That's a pretty significant growth in our network, and I expect to see that, you know, significantly ramp up. I don't know where Uber and Lyft are in terms of the number of their drivers that are driving fully electric V, EVs today. I suspect it's not a significant number and is expected to grow significantly. And so I think all of those things are gonna result in an increase in DC Fast Charging, which is what our business is reliant upon.
Okay.
I also expect to see different use cases. I will go to my DC fast charger that's near my house, as a top-up, and so I'll be there for, you know, a relatively short amount of time, and I think that kind of use case is something that we'll expect to see increase over the years.
Is that while you're in, like, Stop & Shop or something like that, or it's just, you're just in the car watching Netflix?
Just in the car, whatever I'm doing in the car
Okay.
That's right.
Okay. You know, what gets you most excited about 2024?
Look, I think that we've seen some, as we've talked about today and on our announcement this morning and what we've seen in the last couple of quarters, very strong growth in our core owned and operated business, and I'm very excited about that. I, as coming on board as CEO, I've been very impressed with the discipline that we just talked about, that exists in the company, and I expect to continue that and deliver a business that is delivering on, delivering for shareholders and delivering for our customers. One of the great things that I've seen over the course of this last year is a real focus on the customer experience.
Okay.
So we look at that in terms of three things. When a customer, assuming a charger is there, when a customer goes to a charger, they want, we wanna minimize the time where they are waiting for a charger, and that's why we're increasing the number of stalls per site. We're going from around 6 stalls per site today to up to 8-10 stalls per site if there's spaces.
What does that process entail, and how quickly can something like that happen? Is it dependent on. I'm assuming it's
Again, it
100% dependent on the utility?
I'm talking about new sites.
Okay.
Uh, so
Oh, when you're building a new site, you're not building
Building a new site.
6, you're building 8. Okay.
Yeah. So that goes back to the rigorous criteria that we use for underwriting sites. But also, we think that customers actually want a faster charging experience. Not everyone that owns an EV is able to take advantage of 350 kW chargers, and so we've been, to some extent, future-proofing our business by deploying today 350 kW chargers, which, you know, vehicle models will catch up to. And then lastly, we measure something we call One & Done. So when you go to the charger, it works the first time and quickly, within a short period of time. That, at the beginning of 2023, was around 85%. As of Q3, it was up to 91%, and we continue to drive that forward.
Okay.
So those are
What, what would cause a non-one-and-done situation? Is it mostly a credit card reader, or can I use it? Or how
It's a variety of different things. Again, we are talking about an ecosystem where the charger needs to connect with the hardware and software in the vehicle. The charger needs to connect with the app. It needs to connect with the payment provider. So there's, you know, a variety of different interconnections, any one of which could have some issues. Again, I think in these relatively early days, we're gonna experience some of that. But over the course of this past year, I've been very pleased, as a board member and now as CEO, to see the level of focus there, again, which benefits our core owned and operated network.
Okay. Well, I really appreciate your time this morning. We'll talk soon, and look forward to hearing more from you as kind of this