Great! Thanks, everyone. If you could take your seats, we could get started. I'm Robbie Marcus, the MedTech analyst at JP Morgan. Really happy to bring in our new session with Edwards Lifesciences. I wanna introduce CEO Bernard Zovighian, do a presentation, then we'll join you on stage for a Q&A. Bernard?
Thank you. Thank you, Robbie. Thank you, Robbie. Good morning, everyone. We truly value your interest in Edwards. You know, I'm super excited about sharing our vision for 2024 and long term. I'm going to share also a couple of things that happened, you know, since our investor conference in December. I'm going to make some forward-looking statement involving risk. They are filed with SEC, and they are on our website. Using non-GAAP financial measure also, same, you know, on our website and filed with SEC. So as you may have heard, you know, at our recent investor conference in December, we are entering a new era of structural heart innovation. So what we mean by new era? It means, you know, a couple of things.
With the spin-off of Critical Care, we will have a sharpened focus. You know us, you know well, you know, we have been an amazing innovator. We have been very agile as a company. We believe that with this spin-off, we can even be more agile and bring, you know, innovation even faster. You know, this sharpened focus will give us also expanded opportunity to treat, you know, more patient. A patient with aortic stenosis disease, you know, mitral disease, you know, tricuspid disease, and, and even more. The foundation of a company remain the same. Our credo, you know, being an ethical company, trusted, you know, partner, our very unique culture. We care about the patient. We focus on the patient. It is what, you know, unify, you know, basically the 20,000 Edwards employee globally.
And finally, you know, our very unique innovation strategy. We, we like to focus on breakthrough technologies, you know, breakthrough innovation, not just, you know, incremental innovation. Being first and being the leader, and it works, you know, very well, and this, you know, differentiate us. So, if you step back and you think about all of this, you know, for many, MedTech company, an extreme diversification is better. You know, for us, with this, you know, sharpened focus, you know, we believe that expansion and diversification into one space, a large space, a growing space, you know, structural heart disease, is the way to go. A space where basically no one can match our experience, our, you know, our expertise, our reputation, our leadership.
This is what give us, you know, confidence that we will be able to deliver, you know, sustainable growth, you know, long term. We, to drive this sustainable growth, we are looking at, you know, 4 big type of investment. The first one being continuing to bring breakthrough innovation like we did in the past, you know, 60 years. Second one is about continuing to bring world-class evidence to physician and, and regulators in order to be able to expand indication. A new one, patient activation, that we started, you know, a few years ago, because, you know, given, you know, the success of TAVR, we see that, you know, many patient are still undiagnosed and untreated. You know, we started that, you know, a few years ago, and we are now accelerating in our investment.
Something that, you know, we have done a little bit in the past, and we are going to do more in our future, is getting into new segments. So new segments, you know, adjacent segments, but, you know, definitely within, you know, structural heart disease. So if you think about, you know, these two slides, these are a great recap about our long-term vision. You may ask yourself, you know, "Are there enough patient in structural heart disease to be able to have sustainable growth?" And the answer is yes. You know, structural heart disease is the leading driver of cardiovascular death worldwide, and in the U.S. only, you know, every 33 seconds there is a person dying from cardiovascular disease. So the answer is yes, there are many patient in needs, you know, globally.
Our vision is to change this patient care, to be able to have, you know, this patient diagnosed earlier, treated in a routine fashion, and living longer and having a better quality of life. For 60 years, you know, we have been the leading surgical innovator. We have been the pioneer for so many years, surgical innovation. And even though, you know, we have been doing that for 60 years, you know, we see plenty of opportunity to expand into younger patients, more complex patients, you know, requiring, you know, multiple procedure at the same time.
Emerging market is an important opportunity for us, where we are still using a lot of mechanical valves, and we all know that, you know, tissue valve is a way better option, you know, for patients.... In TAVR, about 20 years ago, we had a vision to transform the care for these patients. Everybody at the time, you know, believe, you know, we were crazy, and Mike Mussallem, that you know well, you know, was, you know, the visionary, you know, behind it. And today, we are the global leader. SAPIEN is by far the preferred, you know, therapy for physician globally. We have eight New England Journal of Medicine publication. So let's take a moment on that one. You know, don't you think, you know, our publication and our publication, New England Journal of Medicine, that's something very special, eight?
I don't believe that many MedT ech technology have this kind of evidence, world-class evidence, you know, behind it. Is there any expansion for us? Oh, plenty. There are so many untreated patients, so many undiagnosed patients. You know, we are focusing also at expanding indication, and I'm going to talk more about that, you know, later. So even though TAVR has been a huge success in the last, you know, 20 years, I believe, you know, the best is yet to come. Similarly, about 6, 7 years ago, we had the same vision for mitral and tricuspid patients, where we said: Look, you know, these patients have, you know, basically very little opportunities. Let's commit. Let's go big.
Let's bring a portfolio of therapy because we know that these patients are so complex, so diversified, that, you know, one therapy TEER, for instance, or repair is not enough. And so we see plenty of opportunity of expansion because we are the only company today having a portfolio of therapies. We have been seeing and studying heart failure patient, given our involvement with aortic patient, mitral patient, and tricuspid patient, and we see heart failure as a natural progression for us as a company to expand our reach and being able to impact even more patients. So this is who we are as a company. We, we like to address, you know, large unmet patient need, to create market, to be first, and be the leader.
We have a, you know, a proven track record of success, having done that, you know, for 60 years. Now, let me go quickly, you know, through the different businesses. You know, in TAVR, you know, we have a very simple formula. When I say simple, it is simple to talk about. It is not necessarily simple to implement, as you can imagine. But the simple formula is the following: best technology. You know, never slow down, continuing to bring, you know, the best technology, best innovation. World-class evidence, large randomized study in big journal. Patient activation is something that we do today. Patient expansion indication, sorry, expanded indication, sorry. So we are so proud of this procedure today, and we believe that TAVR, as a category, has the potential to exceed $10 billion by 2028.
Now, what gives us confidence in this $10 billion-plus $10 billion, you know, by 2028? It is all of these drivers, short-term, midterm, and long-term. First, of the patient activation. You know, the first two are in-system patients. So the in-system patients are patients that have been diagnosed with the disease, and unfortunately, they are not referred to a heart team, and they are not treated. So we believe that it is about, you know, 50% of these patients are diagnosed and have not been treated, even in the U.S. It is a big opportunity. We have plenty of initiatives, you know, behind it. That's more of a short-term and near- and midterm. Long-term, there are many patients who have the disease, but don't know that yet, and that's truly the out-of-system opportunity.
Continuing to bring big evidence, large studies, not focusing on share, focusing on bringing the evidence to be able to treat patients. So right now, all of the approvals are around severe AS asymptomatic patients. Severe symptomatic patients, sorry. You know, we have a study that we are going to present later today at TCT for the asymptomatic patients, and then the moderate patient later. We believe that asymptomatic patient is probably as big as symptomatic patients, so this can double the patient population. Moderate is, you know, probably two times bigger than the current indication. So when you think about, you know, the next 10 years here, plenty of opportunity to you know, to bring the TAVR further. And finally, technologies. All of the studies we talk about are with, you know, previous TAVR technologies.
We are now, you know, basically launching, you know, Ultra RESILIA, which is the next gen, and we have another next gen, you know, beyond, you know, Ultra RESILIA, which is X4. So all of these together give us, you know, this confidence that indeed, you know, TAVR, TAVR as a category can exceed, you know, $10 billion by 2028. In TMTT, think about the same formula: technology, evidence, indication, having in mind the patient outcome.... The only difference is one technology will not be sufficient. We knew that, you know, 6, 7 years ago. It is why, you know, we build, you know, this portfolio of therapy, repair and replacement. And, you know, we are the only company having such a portfolio of therapies. So for tricuspid in Europe, PASCAL repair, EVOQUE has just been approved, and so physician have an option now.
EVOQUE is on track to be approved in the U.S. by midyear, you know, this year. On the mitral side, repair exists in the U.S., and we just, you know, completed the study with M3, the first-ever sub-30 French, you know, transfemoral mitral replacement. So this put us on track also to offer, you know, this kind of technology and toolbox, you know, to physicians. On surgical, you know, continuing what we know, what we have been doing for 60 years, bringing, you know, the best innovation, having in mind of the patient who are not best treated with TAVR, and they are many. And we believe that our innovation, our pipeline will help, you know, the category grow to a $2 billion category by 2028.
In Critical Care, continuing also to innovate and move, you know, basically patient from classic monitoring to smart monitoring. We believe that, you know, Critical Care is here to be very successful and extend their leadership. In December, I'm sure you heard, you know, we announced the Critical Care spin. So it has a couple of benefit. Benefit to Edwards, and I talk about it with this, you know, sharpened focus in structural heart disease. It has also a benefit for Critical Care. Critical Care has been doing great. Under, you know, Katie Szyman leadership, this business has grown to almost $1 billion in revenue, improve profitability, but maybe even more importantly, has plenty of opportunity. And we believe that as an independent company, Critical Care will be a very successful company.
So it is why we believe it is the right time. It is a right time for Edwards to have a sharpened focus. It is the right time for Critical Care. We are ready now. You know, they are- they have, you know, critical mass. Let's talk a little bit about, now, you know, the year, starting with last year. Last year, in my mind, was a great year. We are on track to achieve our latest guidance, top line and EPS. We have achieved, you know, very important milestones. Our next gen TAVR, SAPIEN X4, the enrollment of a study is doing very well. SAPIEN M3, the first-ever transfemoral mitral replacement study was completed. We, we achieved CE Mark approval for EVOQUE, the world-first transcatheter tricuspid replacement.
Apture, it is one internal program for heart, heart failure patient. We have, we have done, you know, we have treated, you know, many patient already, and we got an approval by the FDA to start a randomized sham control trial. So all of that together, you know, for me, you know, give me the confidence that we ended, you know, the year strong. And what's new since, you know, our, our investor conference? A couple of things, you know, so a couple of exciting things. You know, the first one is we achieved CE Mark of our SAPIEN 3 Ultra RESILIA in Europe, you know, so basically... So right now, this latest of the latest TAVR technology is approved in the three biggest region: Europe, U.S., and Japan. And we completed a $400 million ASR in Q4. What about, you know, this year, 2024?
You know, I believe it is going to be another exciting year with so many important milestones. It is going to be a very big year for TAVR. The asymptomatic trial result will be presented at TCT later this year. Ultra RESILIA, you know, basically will be launched, you know, across, you know, the planet this year. Patient activation, you know, we have learned a lot. We know what we need to do, and we are scaling, you know, many programs. TMTT, launching EVOQUE in Europe, soon in the U.S., you know, by midyear. And basically now, you know, expanding globally PASCAL. Surgical and Critical Care, expanding their leadership and extending their leadership. So financially now, we are guiding to 8%-10%, with an EPS growth of 9%-11%.
So also, you know, solid, you know, financial performance that we are aiming to. So if you think about it, 2024 will be a very meaningful year, both, you know, financially and the kind of milestone we are going to achieve: new technology, new indication, patient activations. So it is why, you know, because of all of this, you know, we believe that 25 and beyond will be years where, you know, we can be, you know, more than 10% in top-line growth and double-digit EPS too. So very exciting about, you know, what we have done, you know, last year, what we are aiming for, you know, this year. So let's talk about long term now. You know, and we see a very well-defined path to deliver sustainable growth over the many years, many years ahead of us.
So first, it's possible by demographics. We know that many of these disease are a disease of the aging, so demographics is going to help us. Patient activation, now, as a global leader, you know, we are focusing a lot on this, and these two together are going to be a great catalyst. Our commitment to innovation. We have about 2,000 engineers. We are investing more than $1 billion in R&D every day to bring, you know, these breakthrough technologies, amazing evidence, to be able to expand indications, but also the strategic use of our balance sheet, strong balance sheet. So for instance, in heart failure, it is not just an aspiration. We have one internal program. We have already made almost, you know, 10 investments. 2-3 are near term for us to make a decision about an acquisition.
So in summary here, you know, long term, you know, no one is matching our investment, our commitment, our capability, and our leadership. So in closing, you know, I am very pleased with our 2023 performance: double-digit top-line growth, strong profitability. I don't believe there are many MedT ech companies with this kind of performance in 2023. 2024 will be very solid from a financial standpoint, but maybe even more important from a catalyst standpoint, you know, in THV, in TMTT, and the Critical Care spin-off. And finally, long term, I'm very confident. You know, we have a growth driver to expand our opportunity in THV, TAVR, TMTT, surgical, and heart failure as a natural progression is a great opportunity to extend our global reach. So I want to leave you with that.
You know, we are the only global company solely focused on structural heart disease, and I believe, you know, we are uniquely positioned to deliver sustainable long-term growth and extend our leadership. So with that, you know, Robbie, you know, back to you for a Q&A session, correct?
Correct.
Scott, you please.
Great. Maybe to kick it off, I feel like investors are very particular about semantics. And Bernard, you said in the presentation you're on track to achieve your guidance for fourth quarter. Does that preclude that you couldn't do better than fourth quarter guidance? I just want to clear that up. And any comments you want to make on how fourth quarter has trended?
No, no, I was, you know, very clear about, you know, we are expected to deliver on our guidance. I think it is a great guidance, a year of double-digit growth with a strong profitability. We are very proud of it.
Great. You know, we've seen across MedTech a pretty healthy fourth quarter.
Are you willing to make any comments about how fourth quarter surgical volumes have progressed for Edwards?
We'll be willing to make a lot of comments at our earnings call in early February.
Okay. Fair enough. Guidance for 2024-
On the top line that you provided in December, 8%-10% on the top line. I think that was right down the middle of what investors were expecting you to guide to. The surprise came from the better 10%+ in 2024 and 2025, and I want to dig into that and spend some time understanding, one, what made you feel like you had the confidence to put that out there today for two years in advance? And then dive into the different drivers of that accelerated top-line growth.
Sure. And we are confident. You know, Scott and I and the leadership team, you know, we talk a lot about it. So if you think about it, you know, we have so many catalysts that are going to happen in 2024. So you are letting me start with TAVR. So a new technology, the newest technology, Ultra RESILIA, now in Japan, U.S., in Europe. You have, you know, a potentially a new indication, asymptomatic, is going to be presented at TCT. So we are going to have, you know, plenty of learning. And we know that, you know, each time, you know, we bring, you know, a large study, a large randomized study on TAVR, this is increasing the confidence of the space, of physicians, of patients, even though, you know, the indication approval will come later, you know, probably in 2025.
Then you have, you know, on TMTT, you have EVOQUE. It's truly a game changer, correct? You know, for many years, physicians had only, you know, fewer options. And now, you know, they will, in Europe, they will have basically an option between a repair technology and a replacement technology with great outcomes. And in the U.S., you know, mid-2024. So all of that we will see some of the impact in 2024, but most of the impact in 2025 and 2026. In addition, you know, the Critical Care spin, you know, will give us, like, you know, half a point, you know, Scott, correct, in terms of top-line growth? Yeah.
I want to touch on EVOQUE. You called it a game changer. We've seen data from a competitor with their product in repair. EVOQUE is replacement, and we've seen six-month data. This year, we're going to get one-year data, probably with a mortality reading on it. And the patient populations are different, right? You know, the competitor product, a healthier patient population, no outcome in mortality.
What's the likelihood that we could see a mortality outcome in EVOQUE, and how important is that to really driving material uptake versus just really strong symptomatic improvement in a patient population with no good surgical outcomes?
So I am going to. It is a good question, Robbie. Obviously, you know, everybody wants to know the answer of this question, correct? What I'm trying to do is not talking about a study before we know the outcome. I know it is tempting. I know many people like to talk about study in advance, but we respect, you know, so much, you know, having a world-class evidence. And for us, it's like, you know, let's go one step at a time. The study has been completed. It has been one of the fastest enrolling study, showing the need in the marketplace. We presented, you know, the phase one, like you said, you know, six months, you know, 150 patient. What you are going to see is more patient, you know, one-year follow-up.
It's going to be a great learning for the medical community and for all of us. So I know it's tempting, you know. I listen to everybody, and people are talking about study before, you know, knowing of a study or before the study has been published. We like to be very disciplined about that.
Well, let me, let me pose it more as a hypothetical. Like, for—don't comment on the outcome, but just if you think about the necessity to drive a sales uptake, is symptomatic improvement in a really-
... sick patient population enough? I mean, if I think to, you know, some of the CRM products that initially came out before there were any mortality benefits, they were doing $1 billion-plus.
So is symptomatic improvement enough in this market, where it is a bit more of an invasive surgery to, to drive sales uptake, or do you need a mortality outcome?
I would say a mortality benefit is always better, don't you think?
Yeah.
Now, you know, I want to reflect on the patient needs. You know, I have seen, you know, many of these patients, you know, personally, when I was running, you know, the TMTT business unit. These patients are miserable. Their quality of life is horrifying. They cannot do anything. You know, they are overweight, they are in pain, they stay home, they do nothing. They get the EVOQUE valve. Two weeks later, they have lost 20 pounds of fluid, and they are back to having a normal life. And, you know, you ask all of them: Do you enjoy your new life? "Yes." So in my mind, it is kind of a progression.
You know, when I look at, you know, many of the people you were commenting on, you know, the TMTT result, you know, a year ago, correct?
Where they didn't achieve, you know, mortality benefit. I'm looking at this one as a positive. First step, positive. Tricuspid is a new disease. You know, we are learning, physician are learning.
If people suddenly, a week later, two week later, they are back to their normal life, I think it is good enough.
A mortality benefit will give even a better outlook, you know, for the platform-
... and the market, obviously.
If I shift gears to TAVR, you're looking to move earlier and earlier, not only in the patient's age, right? Generally, from high risk down to low risk. The low risk are typically younger, but also earlier in the treatment paradigm, you know, maybe up into moderate AS, which we'll get that in a couple of years down the road. But it's going to be really important, you know, I think it was TCT 2022-
... where the theme of the conference was lifecycle patient management of the valve.
Yes.
Right? So, you know, earlier, maybe you get two, three, maybe even four valves over the course of the patient's life. So what is Edwards doing to make it so that you can manage a longer life of the valve, but also to be able to do better and easier TAVR and TAVR?
Yeah. Well, that's a great question. You know, let me start, and maybe, Scott, you know, if you want to add anything. You know, first, for, for us, you know, lifetime management start with the first procedure. You know, you need to have, you know, an amazing technology, first and foremost, and we believe our SAPIEN platform, with this kind of, kind of outcome we are having, is, you know, is this kind of technology. So best technology first. Then you want the technology to be durable, and it is why we are so excited about Ultra RESILIA. With, you know, this RESILIA technology, tissue technology for us as a company has always been, you know, a clear area of focus. And you know, again, you know, we have been in the space for 60 years.
You know, RESILIA, we started that program, I want to say, you know, more than 15 years ago. The first patient received, you know, RESILIA in 2011. And so we know that, you know, with this RESILIA technology, our TAVR technology has the potential to last longer. So having the best technology, first and foremost, with SAPIEN, and then, you know, lasting longer with RESILIA, we believe that, you know, it is truly, you know, the starting point of lifetime management.... Now, if another technology is needed later, that's a good question, correct?
If we start, you know, treating patient way earlier, and, you know, I believe we are going to learn more, you know, from that in the years to come.
I'll just add to that. Our TAVR strategy for a lifetime management for a patient is connected to our surgical strategy as well. So our surgical valves are designed now to accommodate future TAVR and SAVR. And what we're really trying to do is make sure that we can preserve the effective orifice area, for these patients so that they can have future valve-in-valve procedures. And we're trying to design our valve platforms so that valves can be either a good host or a good guest in future interventions.
I believe X4 incorporates some of that technology. Remind me, when do we get to see more data on X4?
It'll be a while. The trial is enrolling well, but we have not announced timing yet on when we'll release data from the trial.
Got it. In 2024, we're set to see another competitor likely enter the U.S.-
... in the TAVR market. You compete against all of these competitors outside the U.S. So talk about your strategy to preserve your leading market share in the U.S., and what's going to be the competitive message that your sales force is going out with to, you know, to counter any new entrants?
No, that's a very good question, but what I like to start with, Robbie, is to really, you know, start with our strategy.
We are not focusing on share. Share is important. We are not focusing on share. We believe there are so many patients in need, undiagnosed, untreated today with the current indication, asymptomatic patients being a potential, you know, new indication, moderate patients, you know, being a potential new indication. So as a global leader, our number one priority is being able to expand, you know, the market opportunity and being able to treat, you know, more patients. Then, it is about having, you know, the bringing of the latest technology. So SAPIEN, you know, PARTNER 3 was done with the, you know, the SAPIEN 3, and now we have Ultra RESILIA, the next, you know, gen, you know, basically.
Now, we know that in our 2028 assumptions, you know, we already assume, you know, some share loss, you know, some, you know, minor, you know, share loss, which is going to be automatic with more, you know, competitor, you know, coming. But we have been dealing with competitor for many years in Europe, and we are the global leader, and by far, you know, the preferred, you know, TAVR technology. So we are going to approach it, you know, the same way as, as a global leader. Patient first, expanding the market, expanding indication, bringing the best technology. Every time we bring the best technology, there is an opportunity for us to look at pricing because we are bringing value to the entire, you know, healthcare systems. Anything else to add here, Scott?
Well, well said.
Question about perception of the low-risk data, right?
I feel like for the longest time, structural heart and TAVR was simply, here's the data, indisputable, you know, and that's what doctors go by. And I feel like ever since TCT, it's a bit more of we're looking at the same dataset, and I'm hearing very different takes, whether it's on Twitter, whether it's from your competitor, relative to the low-risk data and how you're interpreting it. So have you seen in the market just a ramp up in the narrative of, you know, sort of the competitive narrative, you know, more intense competition or more pushing back from anyone, whether it's the field, the doctors or your competitors out there after the data TCT?
No, we have not seeing it in clinical practice. Now, we are not blind.
We see some of the communication on social media and so on. But at the end of the day, you know, I don't believe it is very important. You know, I think, you know, for us, what's very important is about... It was, again, a New England Journal of Medicine publication. Strong data, nobody can debate, you know, the data. And being able to focus on that, being able to focus on science, clear science, innovation, it is what, in my mind, you know, differentiates us. So yes, there might be noise, but I think, you know, in a clinical practice.
... we have not seen any change. You know, the SAPIEN platform is by far, you know, the preferred, you know, platform.
Got it. Scott, maybe a couple questions for you. You know, one of the best top-line growers, one of the best bottom-line growers in medtech, but not one of the best operating margin expansion in medtech. So, at what point do you think we're gonna start to see more operating margin expansion year after year from Edwards?
We'll see operating margin expansion over time. We're running the company deliberately to invest aggressively in R&D and invest aggressively in making sure that we've got the right field presence, so Edwards employees standing shoulder to shoulder with physicians who are treating patients. And we're gonna continue to do that as we grow the top line. So our number one focus is organic, profitable, top-line growth. Over time, the top line will outpace the expense lines, and we'll see, I expect, improving margins in the operating line. We could do that right now if we wanted to. There's no structural impediment to us improving the profit margins for Edwards, but as I mentioned, that's not the number one driver.
... I want to touch on the monitoring spin you announced at the Analyst Day. I guess, why now? Why, why does it make sense today, not in the past? Or why not hold on for it for longer, that it's doing pretty well?
Well, let me start, and maybe Scott, you know, you can add, you know, a couple of things here. So the why now, in my mind, is because of two things. The first one is for Edwards, you know, obviously, you know, I'm the new CEO, you know, for almost a year now, and you think about, you know, the vision that you wanted of a company. And what I see is that an amazing opportunity in front of us in structural heart disease. What I mean by that is TAVR, TMTT, surgical, but also heart failure. So becoming this, you know, only company solely focused on, you know, structural heart disease with the kind of capability that we have, in my mind, it is very compelling, very exciting. So that's one. Two is, Critical Care became a very successful business.
Almost $1 billion, growing, have improved, you know, their profit margin, with plenty of opportunity to grow further. So it is also a good time, you know, for them to become independent and be successful. But, you know, anything to add?
I would just add, here's a business where we are leaders in the markets that we serve. We've got a rich innovation pipeline and R&D portfolio to supply additional new technologies in the future. And we've got a great management team. We've got a great management team, both at the corporate level and out in the field, and we've got a lot of confidence that this is going to be a successful, independent, publicly traded company.
If I think about your cash flow and the use of the cash, it's been primarily on share repurchase. Do you see any of that changing the priority for cash post-spin?
Some, yes, some, no. Number 1 priority is to continue to fund infrastructure and grow the production capacity we have to support the growth of the company. Number 2 is to fund external growth, and I think that we're expecting, excuse me, even more external growth in the days ahead. Bernard talked about heart failure-
And we've got some investment opportunities teed up that we expect to fund using free cash flow. And then, of course, share repurchase will continue to be an important part of our strategy. Bernard mentioned earlier, we completed a $400 million accelerated share repurchase in the fourth quarter. You should expect that we're going to continue to be buying back shares over time.
I feel like the shunt opportunity and heart failure is probably the most interesting that we hear the least about. You know, when do you think we're going to start to see that move forward in disclosures?
So look, you know, we see, you know, many opportunity. Like I said, you know, we have about, you know, 10 investments in heart failure. What we like to do is, you know, not talk about them until all we have clinical data. It is why, you know, at investor conference, you know, I started talking about our internal program, or until we make an acquisition. So that's probably, you know, how to think about it. So now, in term of potential acquisition, I told you, we have 2-3 near term, where we'll have, we will have to make a decision.
Okay. Well, great. We're out of time. Thank you so much, and thanks, everyone, for joining today.
Thanks, Robbie.
Thank you.