Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the H. B. Fuller Q4 2020 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.
I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Barbara Doyle, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.
Good morning, And welcome to H. B. Fuller's 4th quarter fiscal 2020 earnings call for the fiscal quarter ended November 28, 2020. Our speakers are Jim Owens, H. B.
Fuller President and Chief Executive Officer and John Corcoran, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. After our prepared remarks, we will take questions. Please let me cover a few items before I turn the call over to Jim. First, a reminder that our comments today will include references to non GAAP financial measures and references to organic revenue, which excludes the impact of foreign currency These measures are in addition to the GAAP results in our earnings release and in our Forms 10Q and 10 ks. We believe that discussion of these measures is useful Reconciliation of non GAAP measures to the nearest GAAP measure is included in our earnings release.
Also, we will be making forward looking statements during this call. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Many of these risks and uncertainties are and will be exacerbated by the COVID-nineteen pandemic and any worsening of the global business and economic environment as a result. Actual results could differ materially from these expectations due to factors discussed in our earnings release, comments made during this call or risk Factors in our Forms 10 ks and 10 Q filed with the SEC and available on our website at investors. Hbfuller.com.
Now let me turn the call over to Jim Owens. B. Lowe:] Thank
you, Barbara, and welcome to everyone on the call. Last evening, we reported strong With organic revenue up 5%, EBITDA up 9% and EPS up 21%. These results exceeded our expectations and each of our segments delivered positive organic growth and strong margin performance in the quarter. This performance is especially strong given its comparison against a pre COVID environment and as a result of the work we've done to gain market share and reduce our cost structure. During today's call and in the months ahead, we will explain and demonstrate why you should continue to expect Differentiated performance from H.
B. Fuller. Throughout the year, our portfolio of innovative adhesive solutions And hygiene, health and packaging has enabled H. B. Fuller to continuously meet high levels of demand for essential consumer products.
We outperformed the market in meeting these needs. During this time, we also worked with customers in other markets To accelerate our product qualification processes for electronics and durable goods and as demand around the world strengthened and global industrial production improved, we capitalized on share gains across our diverse markets to deliver 4th quarter results ahead of our expectations. We also realized significant operational benefits from the business realignment completed earlier in the year, which generated $30,000,000 of Annualized SG and A savings in 2020, including $10,000,000 realized in the 4th quarter, resulting in strong profit growth and operating leverage. Our work in 2019 in advance of the pandemic to reorganize 3 GBUs instead of 5 has enabled us to grow faster while reducing costs. Our strong cash flow performance continued in the Q4.
Cash flow from operations increased 27% year over year and enabled us to pay down a total of $205,000,000 of debt for the year above our original $200,000,000 target. Our results in the Q4 and throughout the year reinforced the resiliency of H. B. Fuller's strategy. Our culture of collaboration, our broad adhesive technology portfolio, our applications expertise and our global operational agility proved to be differentiators in this current environment.
H. B. Fuller seamlessly supported the dynamic needs of our customers In a world transformed by the COVID-nineteen pandemic. Throughout the pandemic, several priorities have remained constant for us, Ensuring the health and safety of our employees, leveraging our technology investments to find new ways of working and utilizing our vast global capabilities to ensure business continuity for our customers. All companies have had to learn how to work differently in 2020.
But I can say that H. B. Fuller team has truly excelled in this environment. I can't emphasize strongly enough how Proud I am of our employees around the globe for their unwavering focus on delivering our priorities throughout 2020. Our teams effectively collaborated with each other and with our customers to develop new products And solve supply issues, and they did it faster than ever.
We leveraged our digital technology in new ways to remotely qualify new applications and troubleshoot complex issues. The result was an increase in the speed of our decision making, Shortened sales cycles and improved customer support. Our new organizational structure enabled greater collaboration across our global B. Fuller's dedicated focus on adhesive technologies And our global capabilities have positioned us to move 1st and fastest with a clear vision and mission. No distractions from other divisions, other priorities or regional issues.
These have proven to be Critical competitive advantages resulting in increased share with existing customers and business wins with new customers. With that as Effective, I'll move on to our segment results in the Q4 on Slide 3. Strong performance continued in our Hygiene, Health and Consumables segment, organic revenues increased by 5%, including solid organic growth in most geographic regions. We continue to meet high levels of demand for Essential goods in the quarter and our portfolio of adhesive solutions that enable more sustainable consumer products drove Strong growth in packaging, tissue and towel and tapes and labels. HHC segment EBITDA margins were strong at 15.3%, up 270 basis points year over year, reflecting volume leverage, favorable mix, savings from our business restructuring and good overall Construction adhesives organic revenue increased 1% versus the prior year with improvements in year on year performance for all markets when compared with the 2nd and third quarters of the year.
Both the commercial flooring and roofing end markets improved in the quarter, albeit at a slower pace than residential construction markets. Construction Adhesives EBITDA margin was solid at 12.4%, down 80 basis points versus last year, reflecting unfavorable mix and an increase in variable compensation accruals as a result of the stronger top line results in the Q4. For the full year, EBITDA margin was roughly flat to 2019. New product introductions and improved product related to last year's portfolio repositioning as well as operational improvements from the GBU restructuring offset the impact of lower volume. These operational improvements position this business for strong margins as construction activity increases in 2021.
Engineering Adhesives continued to show strong improvement with organic revenue up 5.6% year on year In the quarter led by double digit growth in electronics, recreational vehicles, woodworking and panels and solid results in insulating glass and Automotive. Engineering Adhesives EBITDA margin remained strong at nearly 17%, down 80 basis points versus last year, reflecting an increase in variable compensation as a result of the stronger top line results in the Q4. Looking ahead to 2021, We will pursue growth opportunities and share gains in a business environment that is expected to continue to improve, but remain below normal levels. Our planning assumptions at this time are that COVID related shutdown impacts will continue to lessen as vaccines are rolled out around the world. Although recessionary forces will continue to weigh on global economies throughout the year, we anticipate continued improvement in underlying demand, especially for electronics, durable goods and consumer goods driving volume growth in 2021 versus 2020.
Growth in some end markets such as commercial construction and aerospace will improve at a slower pace and may not yet return 2019 levels of activity. Elevated demand for hygiene and health products, packaging, paper tissues and towels will likely continue into 2021 as consumers continue to spend more time in their homes. The spikes in demand that we saw in the Q2, however, are unlikely to repeat. We anticipate Construction Adhesives end markets to continue to show steady improvement throughout 2021, with commercial activity improving throughout the year and residential activity remaining solid. Engineering adhesive end market demand will likely remain levels in early 2021, reflecting increased production activity to meet some pent up demand, returning to more typical activity levels in the second half of the year.
In total, our base planning assumptions are for low to mid single digit organic revenue growth in 2021, with stronger growth from engineering and construction adhesives versus 2020. We volume leverage and savings from our restructuring and our operational improvement programs to drive solid year on year EBITDA margin improvement in 2021. Sales growth, improving margins and continued working capital efficiency will enable us to continue to drive strong cash flow and deliver another year of strong debt pay down with a target of paying down another $200,000,000 of debt in 2021. Against a challenging economic backdrop, Our performance in 2020 demonstrates that our business is diverse and resilient. Our operations are nimble and we are executing our strategy well.
We expect to continue to outperform our markets again in 2021. Now let me turn the call over to John to review our financial results and our expectations for 2021 in more detail based on these planning assumptions.
Thanks, Jim. I'll begin on Slide 4 with some additional financial details on the 4th quarter. For the quarter, revenue was up 5.2% versus the same period last year. Currency had a positive impact of 0 point Adjusting for currency, organic revenue was up 4.7% with volume up 5% and pricing having a negative 0.3% impact year on year in the quarter. Year on year adjusted gross profit margin was 27.5%, down 10 basis points versus last year as higher volume was offset by higher variable compensation and unfavorable absorption due to a reduction in inventory.
Adjusted selling, general and administrative expense as a percentage of revenue was down a full percentage point versus last year, reflecting savings associated with the business realignment and lower travel, which was partially offset primarily by higher variable compensation with strong 4th quarter results. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter of $123,000,000 was up 9 point Adjusted earnings per share were $1.06 up 21% versus the same period last year as strong volume Lower SG and A and lower interest expense associated with our debt reduction actions drove higher earnings per share than last year. For the quarter, cash flow from operations of $139,000,000 is up by 27% versus the same period last year, reflecting continued improvement in working capital performance. This allowed us to continue to reduce debt, paying off 205 2021 fiscal year. Based on what we know today and the planning assumptions that Jim laid out earlier, we anticipate full year organic revenue growth to be in the low to mid single digits and EBITDA to increase by approximately 10% as volume leverage, pricing, manufacturing and supply chain savings and carryover of the restructuring related savings and SG and A offset higher raw material costs, variable compensation rebuild and higher travel expense.
We expect our 2021 core tax rate to be between 26% 28% compared to our 2020 core tax rate of about 25%.
The higher tax rate is
a result of forecasted income by region and the tax impact related to the global cash management. Capital expenditures are expected to be approximately $95,000,000 in the 2021 fiscal year, and we expect $200,000,000 of our cash flow after CapEx investments and dividends to the repayment of debt. Now let me turn the call back over to Jim to
Thanks, John. In 2020, we proved our ability to locations and diverse end market exposure. Most importantly, we have created momentum as we head into 2021. Revenues increased and margins improved sequentially throughout the year. And in the Q4, we delivered 5% organic revenue growth with positive organic growth in each of our segments.
The momentum we have created is enabling us to outperform our markets and is a direct result of actions we've taken over the past few years to realign our organizational structure and strengthen our ability to grow. Our business realignment accelerated our market focused innovation and enhanced our collaborative capabilities, enabling us to consistently meet customers' needs and capture growth opportunities. And the business realignment also enabled us to do this through a simpler lower cost structure. Looking ahead, we are only just beginning to see the benefits from these actions. Our customer wins continue to grow And we are still in the process of implementing changes and optimizing the business, with a focus now on driving $20,000,000 to $30,000,000 of efficiencies across our manufacturing network by the end of 2022.
We are encouraged by share gains and new customer business we have won 2020 that helped drive revenue growth as we exited the year. Our focus on innovation to drive new business continues in 2021, And our new product pipeline is stronger than it has ever been. We continue to expand our portfolio of adhesive applications that enable more economical and environmentally sustainable buildings and products. Some examples include our single ply membrane sprayable roofing adhesive, Our Fast 2 ks pole and post setting material, advanced adhesives for solar panels and insulating glass, formaldehyde free low monomer emission adhesives support low VOC structural wood products and panels and a growing portfolio of adhesives for electronics, including applications used in smartphones and wearables, touch panels and keyboards and interiors and exteriors in both traditional and electronic vehicles. In December, we announced our Advantra Hot Melt Adhesive Technology for extreme cold storage of vaccines and medical packaging, which provides a secure bond at minus 70 degrees Celsius.
Demand also remains strong for sustainable packaging solutions, Such as H. B. Fuller's closed sesame tapes that support easily returnable packaging systems, compostable adhesives for paper and hygiene products and our MicroSphere adhesive technology for removable signs and labels. This high level of demand reinforces the importance of our HHC solution in today's world. These are just a few examples of the innovation we are bringing to market.
With our strong product pipeline and the continued optimization of our operations, we are confident in our ability to build on our success, driving further share gains and continued margin improvement. We exit an unprecedented year in 2020 as a much Stronger company. And as the world's largest dedicated provider of adhesives, we are uniquely positioned to capture future growth opportunities and deliver for our shareholders strong sustainable results in the months years ahead. This concludes our prepared remarks today. Operator, please open up the call so we can take some questions.
Your first question comes from Jeff Zekauskas with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Thanks very much. In your remarks, you said that if raw materials go up, you should be able to Set it with price increases. How much price do you need to offset your raw material inflation?
Yes. So Jeff, as you know, raw materials are starting to move here early in the year. Right now, it's Commodity materials, things like propylene and ethylene and only about 13% of what we buy as those materials. We typically the 87% of what we buy is specialty materials and those typically lag those commodity materials. So We're seeing and anticipating a ramping up of increases that will probably hit us more in the second half than the first half.
We have started some price increases here in February March. So I'd say it's a fluid plan, Jeff, But I think for the full year increases of 1%, maybe 2% for the full year, but that ramps. That starts at a pretty low number and Second half of the year will be at closer to 3% or 4%.
Right. So shouldn't your organic growth for 2021 be higher than low to mid single digits. If you're going to get a couple of percent from price If you grew at a low single digit rate, that would imply no volume growth or not much volume growth, but surely you should do much better than that, no?
Yes. Let me let John give you a little more color on it. But I think, Jeff, it's a fluid environment So I think there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic certainly given how the year end and the comps were up against And certainly there will be some price impact of 1% or 2%. But I think it's a fluid world. So we're not going to anticipate exactly where it's going to head until things play out here a little bit Going to the start of the year.
But yes, I think there's a case that organic growth could be a little higher depending on where the world goes. John, do you want to add to that?
Yes, just on the point on pricing. So Jeff, we would we probably expect that if we saw 1.5% 2% raw material inflation, we might get closer to 1% pricing, which would fully offset the dollar impact. So, obviously, a 1% increase in pricing would offset approximately a 2% increase on raw materials. Eventually, we want to get back To where we're getting that full 2% to get our margins back to where they were, but that sometimes takes a little longer. So I think as we think about a 1% to 2% raw Inflation world, we're probably around 1%, maybe a little bit lower than that from a pricing standpoint.
Okay. Just and lastly, the margins in engineering, Construction in the Q4 were down year over year. And even though the revenue growth and engineering was really pretty strong, And you talked about taking out $10,000,000 in costs. So like it didn't look like the $10,000,000 in costs really came out of those two segments. Did it come out of HHC?
And were you satisfied with your margins in engineering?
Yes, I think broadly speaking, John, I'll let John again or Jeff, I'll let John give a little more color is, it's really about this Accrual of variable compensation that was because we over performed in the 4th quarter, We need to build up some accruals that really impacted the last few quarters. So that was fundamentally what I think would have shifted margins to be More positive than they were. So we're happy to see 21% EPS and double digit growth. But I think to your point with that organic growth, you would normally see Even better numbers and that was just about building up some variable comp. John, do you want to add to that?
Yes. No, that's exactly right. I mean the and it really the variable comp impact, which was probably $6,000,000 to $8,000,000 in the quarter versus kind of a typical run rate because there was a catch up impact was all in engineering adhesives and construction adhesives, which Harder hit by the COVID impact and performed much better in Q4. So that was a little bit of a catch up impact in Q4.
Okay, great.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Jeff.
Your next question comes from Mike Harrison with Seaport Global Securities. Your line is open.
Hi, good morning. Congratulations on the nice end to the year here.
Good morning, Mike, and thank you.
Wanted to start out with I also have a question on the guidance. Maybe talk a little bit about your expected cadence of EBITDA growth in that 10% number And talk a little bit about your macro assumptions or I guess maybe COVID or vaccine assumptions because you refer to this guidance As your base case, and I'm wondering if that means it's maybe a little bit conservative or can you talk about maybe how you would think about the difference Base case and maybe a best case or a worst case relative to that 10% number.
Okay. There's a lot of questions built in Mike, but I'll try and give a high level. I think
I'm sorry about that.
That's okay. In terms of cadence, We're expecting double digit EBITDA growth here in Q1. We're also We're expecting if you think about that 10% to be above 10% in Q2 and Q3 and maybe a little below it in Q4. So it's that's kind of the shape of the EBITDA growth. And admittedly, Mike, we're not trying to crystal ball here A big rebuild of demand globally.
Certainly, there's a lot of good signs out there and our results are very positive. Plus we got some good share gains. So there's a lot of reasons why you could get more optimistic. But I think we've all seen that the world Goes in fits and starts as things go forward. So just as we did last year, we build our planning assumptions, I think on A practical view that recessionary impacts would affect our business And I couldn't tell you what they are and where they're going to hit and when.
That's sort of our planning assumptions It's not some everybody gets vaccinated and the world takes off kind of scenario. So John, you want to add to that some?
I think that's
exactly right.
So and in terms of best case, I think if the world got a lot better, Mike, you'd see clearly higher demand would Come forward in our business. We do have very good leverage, especially in EA and CA from a margin standpoint. We're anticipating some buildup of costs, things like we talked about bonus accruals, obviously all of our bonuses are below target last year, we got merit and we've got travel that will go up, but we'll have very good leverage if we see more volume growth, but we'll also see more raw material inflation. I think the if the world gets very active, you'll see that. So we've got a plan to manage through all that if it goes through.
But generally, if the world is a better place, We're well positioned to take advantage of it.
All right. Appreciate the color there. And then we're hearing that A lot of manufacturers in industrial and automotive and maybe some other markets are running at pretty low inventory levels. Can you talk a little bit about the potential restocking opportunity that you see across some of your key businesses?
Yes. I couldn't give you a full color on everything. We're very diverse in our end markets. I think we're feeling a little of that in Europe. Europe really destock and you saw a lot of inactivity from a manufacturing standpoint over the summer.
So markets like auto and insulating glass in Europe Are definitely in a mode of restocking. I mentioned RVs. RVs, the demand is very high, But they've depleted all their inventories. I think you're going to see a pull to fill pipelines there for a long time just to catch up. So there are definitely some market That need especially of more industrial goods, durable goods, I think you see some inventories depleted in certain markets.
All right. Thanks very much.
Okay, Mike. Thanks.
Your next question comes from Eric Petrie with Citi. Your line is open.
Hey, good morning, Jim and John.
Good morning, Eric.
A question on the noted semiconductor chip shortage going on globally and The impact on your electronics business and auto, you're posting double digit gains this quarter, last quarter. So how do you see that growth momentum for both those end markets into 2021?
Yes. So in terms of our own products, most of what we produce around the world, we produce with local raw materials. So we don't have a huge supply Chain dependence on raw material shipping around the world and we have local alternatives. So we're doing a great job of managing our supply chain to give product to customers. Your question is more about our end customers.
Our wins in electronics are mostly share gains. So That's tough for us sometimes to sift through what the market's doing versus us winning there. So Clearly, the shipping lane problems are an issue for a lot of industries and some of our customers are managing through them. But We don't see a material impact on our business overall, from what we hear from customers, but There are definitely signs of people having supply issues globally through shipping lanes and but our customers are Seemed to me to be mostly managing through it with exceptions. John, anything color you want
to add there? No, I think that's exactly right.
Helpful. And for my follow-up question, how do you see working capital in 2021 versus the source of cash this year or in 2020? And then what is your target leverage by year end 2021 compared to 4 times currently? And the target that you gave when acquiring Royal Of less than 3 by 2020. How does that stack up now?
Yes. So on the Well, I'll give some high level and then maybe John can. Yes, working capital, I think we've since over the last few years, We've reduced it 300 points, 400 points. I don't give you the exact number, but we've put a really big focus on that and I think the team has done an outstanding job of managing working capital. And we see ourselves improving that another 50 to 100 basis points again this year.
So now We're going to have more capital demand as we grow off of 2020. But I think as a percentage, you'll see that go down another 50 to 100 basis We continue to build that as a strength in the company. And then as I've said many times to our investors, our objective is to get below 3.0. We set out a 3 year target to reduce debt by $600,000,000 We've Delivered over $670,000,000 in debt reduction. We've beaten our target every single year.
I'm going to be shooting to beat the target again this year. And as you point out, we'll be close to 3 by the end of this year and certainly below 3 in 2022. John, do you want to comment more especially on the working capital or anything?
Sure. Yes. No, I think you're exactly right. We've taken our working capital as Percentage of sales from about 18% in 2017 to below 17% at the end of 2020. So about 100 basis points a year and That's in the range of improvement we would expect to see in 2021.
So based on that math, it would be a source of cash, Maybe not quite as big a source of cash as this year when we also had the impact of lower sales. But yes, and then from a leverage standpoint, based on those numbers, we would expect to be at Around 3.5 times debt to EBITDA or slightly below by the end of 2021.
Great. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Ghansham Panjabi with Baird. Your line is open.
Hey, guys, good morning.
Good morning, Anshoom.
Yes. So going back to the EBITDA margins, specific 4Q and HHC. Did the margins there come in line with your original plan? Was it better? It just was higher than our model.
Just curious as to What drove the upside if there was any relative to initial plan? And just also more broadly, as the lockdown started to expand during the quarter, during calendar 4Q. How did that impact some of the exit run rates, if you will, from volumes for each of the segments, especially EA?
Okay. So, I'll as far as HHC is concerned and the margin, Q3 was a little lower than we expected. Q4 was about what we expected, probably a little better. Andy and the team have done a great job all year. I think they've met a lot of demand.
They've Generate the growth and then they've improved the margins in that business. So we're very pleased with it. I wouldn't say it's dramatically less than we thought in the quarter, Probably a little better as they have done all year. So a really good quarter and year for our HHC business. And part of that is growth, right?
The share gains that they're getting in addition to meeting all the demands out there in this environment has been really And the second question was?
Exit rates of volumes. Yes.
So John, did you want to comment on that?
Yes. I can for sure. So I don't really think we saw a significant from any lockdowns in the 4th quarter either positive or negative. I think the trends in HHC and EA Yes, both moved in a positive direction as we ended the year. So I would say it's hard to say for sure, Ghansham, but I don't really feel like we saw an impact.
Got it. And then in terms of back to the raw material question also, I mean, there's a big concern about margin pressure for a lot of the companies in our coverage, including yours, As costs have risen as the economy has bounced back, etcetera, globally, you mentioned reformulation and some select Pricing, but how would you kind of give us comfort that we're not going to go through a sequential margin compression phase As your volumes come back and then also some of the commodity, just the tightness in the commodity markets, start to roll through your cost structure?
Yes. So I think one of the difference between us and a lot of other companies Ghansham is we're not a purchaser of commodity materials. So we definitely see that lag as raws come in. So with only 13% of our raws being things like VAM and acrylate, and ethylene. And So we're not seeing that big uptick that a lot of people see here early in the first half of the year.
And also I'd say it's a little more muted. I mean, if you look at what's happened to propylene and ethylene, it's really taken off. I mean VAM, which is our number one raw material, is only 4% of Our purchases. So that's one thing that's different about us than others. But I think we've shown over the years Ghansham and you can look back at other that we've gotten very good at anticipating where the world's going and then taking those bold And I mentioned briefly in Jeff's question, we've got price increases that are going to affect In February March in certain market segments, we've got a whole plan built around Q2 increases.
And right now, we're shifting through exactly How big and the exact timing of those, but certainly price increases will be a big part of the strategy as we look into the second half of the But we don't get that big shock to our system that other companies have. So we have a little time to plan for it and it's pretty clear it's coming. So we're taking the steps. John, anything else to add there?
No, Matt. That summarizes the grade.
And Jim, if I could, just Your exposure to freight, how big is that for you? And the question I asked about raw materials wasn't just specific to your Sure. Ramchar Baskerville, so some of the logistics costs including freight?
Yes. Again, if you think about adhesives and especially as our portfolio has Changed over the years. Our business is not as bulk as a lot of companies. So overall freight is about 2% to 3% of revenue. So if you think about a 10% or 20% increase in freight, that's a 0.3% or a 0 point 6%.
So it's something for us to manage. Just as labor is, I think we're going to see a little bit of labor pressure here, but it's not the big driver. Raw materials are the big driver for us.
Okay, very clear. Thanks so much.
Okay, thank you, guys.
Your next question comes from Vincent Anderson with Stifel. Your line is open.
Yes, thanks. And I just wanted to echo the congratulations on an impressive year.
Thanks, Rich.
Yes. So just to nitpick 2021 guidance a little bit longer. How much of the 10% EBITDA increase Is accounting for the cost savings that you've achieved net of whatever kind of cost inflation normalizing out of COVID?
Yes. So I think if I were to think about it at a very high level, there's The growth in currency impacts about $40,000,000 of increase Ghansham. Our project GROW, our restructuring savings that we talked about Generate about $15,000,000 to $20,000,000 in benefit. And then we have a lot of costs up. We've got to rebalance our bonuses, which were below targets, Merit, travel and that's about a $20,000,000 drag.
And then you have this net raw material pricing and positive mix, Which ultimately that nets out to 0. So those are the main elements of this, and that's how you get to the number.
Okay, that's helpful. And then, not to get ahead of ourselves, but maybe this is a year where the dollar isn't just Constant headwind. If we see the dollar weaken further, is it All translation for H. B. Fuller or could we actually see some kind of impact to margins from a weaker dollar?
Yes. So it's always interesting. In theory, we it's mostly translation, but there have been in the past benefits When we see a weakening dollar and we've had the pain as it feels like most of my term as CEO, we've had the other effect. So it should be a positive for us and we factored some of that into this year, but weakening dollar is generally good for us.
Thanks. And if I could sneak in more specific families that you're excited to see Progress on commercialization as we get back to a more normal customer environment. And then maybe specifically, you had some recent success in aerospace Earlier in 2020, is that going to translate too much in the way of sales in 2021?
Well, I'm excited about all of our innovations. So it's tough for me to pick a couple. I would say, and we haven't talked a lot about it on this call. This restructuring of the 3 GBUs and then really the 28 segments below that is really driving a lot of our growth and our wins. So if you think about a business like ours and those are roughly $100,000,000 businesses.
Them getting $2,000,000 $5,000,000 $10,000,000 wins is what this is about. So I can't point to $1,000,000 $30,000,000 win that's really driving the number. It's a lot of things. But what I really love is each one of our segments Has 1 or 2 very sizable wins where they're gaining some share. So, our work in solar, I'm very pleased with what we're doing there and some of the innovations there, Because that's such an emerging trend, our work in electric vehicles and the electronics around vehicles.
So we've targeted In the auto space, anything to do with electronics, there's some really exciting wins there and we're positioning ourselves as a leader there. And then just electronics in general, that team Continues to get stronger and stronger. And then finally, under Andy's leadership and part of why we set up HHC Was to get a better handle on what some of the sustainability benefits were and we got a couple of nice wins there. So those are some of the ones I'm most excited about. In terms of we're ahead of the trends, and they have momentum that's going to build on itself as the world evolves.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Thank you. Good morning.
Good morning, David.
Good morning, John. How is organic growth tracking in Q1?
Yes, I'd say December was positive. So I think more what we saw in Q4. So it's December though, I'm always cautious not to overreact to December, but I would say more positive than that is what we saw in the 1st month of the quarter.
And do you have a readout on January? Do you get weekly sales that give you insight into?
We do. Again, I'm really hesitant to talk about our average daily sales, but I don't think we see any Big trend changes. We think it's going to be a positive quarter.
Got it. And if you see higher volumes than you currently forecast in your planning What types of incremental margins should we see in those higher volumes?
We typically say that our incremental margins are around 30%, when we consider all the costs associated with it. So it's somewhere in that range, David.
Very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Rosemarie Morbelli with G. Research. Your line is open.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and good morning, everyone.
Good morning, everyone. So
If we look at the growth rate in HHC and Engineered Adhesives, How much do you feel was from pent up demand or inventory build versus normal type of demand level?
Yes. So HHC was we don't think was really resulting of inventory rebuild. We see good positive growth there And some good positive wins, and not a big inventory shift or pent up demand. And they were strong all year, right? So we don't see that.
In Engineering Adhesives, Rosemarie, it's a mix, right? So I think something like electronics, we had a lot of good wins that Came through, RVs, they're still not picking up on the demand they had earlier in the year. Auto in Europe certainly has some pent up That's coming through. So and then there's other areas, as I mentioned, things like aerospace that really aren't picking up as an industry. So it's a broad mix market by market, but I think that's the beauty of our organizational structure.
We have an aerospace team, electronics team, an RV team, And auto electronics team. Each one of those teams is identifying the needs and making certain we capitalize on them as they come. So but it's a mix.
Okay. Thank you. And following up on your laundry list, if I can use that Sure. Of innovations, new products, while you cannot really give us a dollar number Because it is a combination of a lot of multiple small wins. If you look out 2 or 3 years, how much Do you think on aggregate all of those new products could generate in terms of revenues?
Well, you'd have to go through the list and go through them 1 by 1, Rose Which I'm not going to do, but I think sizable wins in our space, the kind that I would mention on a call like this are 10 ish million. Sometimes they're a little bigger, sometimes they're a little smaller, but that's a good average number of how much adhesive, which is a lot of adhesive, dollars 10,000,000 worth of adhesive. So Sometimes they're bigger depending on the market segment and the nature of the innovation. So but in aggregate, they add up to A big number when you do that across 28 segments.
Biggest driver for EBITDA growth in 2021.
Yes. Okay. And if I may add one more. What could be your what is your exposure to any Potential infrastructure bill, is that would that have a big impact On your businesses or not that much?
Not a direct impact, Rosemary. We have within our Construction Adhesive Businesses, we have 3 businesses, a roofing business, a flooring business and a utilities and infrastructure. So there's some opportunities in that business. So think about a third of our CA business is affected by that. So not a huge infrastructure.
The infrastructure bill won't drive direct adhesive purchases from H. B. Fuller.
Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Paretosh Misra with Berenberg. Your line is
open. Thank you. Good morning, Jim, John and Barbara. So in your pre business units, Do they operate in a similar fashion in terms of how price hikes are announced or implemented? Just trying to get a sense What percentage of your business may require you to push through these price hikes if raw materials go up this year?
Yes. So we'll I think I'd even think about it at a different level. There's 28 segments and we'll manage differentially on each one of them. Now all of our businesses are similar in that they have low volume products that are specialty products that will take increases early. So you'll see some of that happening.
That's part of what's happening in February. And then we have some products that some of those market segments that are tied more toward these commodity materials that are moving now, They're also moving more quickly. So it does vary by the market segment and the buying behavior of the customers, But and so it will be a mix.
Got it. Thanks for that. And then for engineering, it is So what would it take the margins to get to 20%, which I believe is the high end of your long term target? Is that just more volumes or any specific end markets I need to go back to where they were.
Yes. I think 20% is the target in that business and we I think what we've done is we've built a great infrastructure for growth. We've seen it over before 2020 in terms of the double digit growth And our ability to gain share there. So and given the margins in that business, the incremental margin of that business are higher even than our other businesses, Growth will drive a lot of value to the bottom line and margin expansion. So that's the biggest driver.
Got it. And then last one quick. Good. On the CapEx this year, is there any major project that's worth flagging or is it just regular small project?
We always have a number of expansion projects going on. So in the Middle East, we've got a In Egypt, we had a very old plant there. That's a growing area for our hygiene business. Our electronics business has a pretty sizable Expansion going on in China and the business that supports our solar business that has an expansion project So those are 3 of the bigger ones, but most of our investment is smaller $5,000,000 $10,000,000 $2,000,000 investments within facilities to
I I think we have one more question.
Your final question comes from Rosemarie Morbelli with G. Research. Your line is open.
Thank you for taking my follow-up. I was you have a target of 3 times Net leverage, should we expect or should we expect that you will not have any M and A until you reach that level? Or do you think that the market is such that you could still add bolt on new technologies to your product lines?
Yes. I think we've been pretty clear, Rosemarie. Our goal is to get to that 3.0 leverage. We've committed that to our investors and we're well on our way to do that. And There's 2 ways to do that, pay down more debt faster or improve the EBITDA and we'll work on both of those.
Okay. Thanks. And lastly, just following up on the margin target. You had a 22% margin target for construction. We are now at about 12.4%.
Have you changed that particular level?
I'm not sure where the 22 It comes from Rosemarie, but yes, we see a lot of margin expansion for that business. So we did some good repositioning of our portfolio. If you look at the margins throughout the year, especially given what happened in construction this year, they were very solid overall, And we expect expansion into next year.
All right. Thank you. Good luck.
Thank you.
There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Jim Mullins for closing remarks.
Okay. Thanks everybody for your time today. Happy New Year and thanks for all of your support for HB Fuller. That ends our call.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.