Good afternoon. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining. My name is C.J. Muse with Evercore ISI. Thank you for participating in our Auto and AI conference. Very pleased to be hosting GlobalFoundries. We have Chief Business Officer, Mike Hogan, with us today. Mike has over 35 years of experience in the semi industry, with prior roles that include Texas Instruments, Cypress, and Broadcom, before joining GlobalFoundries in 2019. He currently oversees go-to-market strategy across the company's Auto, IoT, A&D, data center, and infrastructure, and smart mobile devices end markets, and also is responsible for GlobalFoundries' product management, design platforms, and business strategy teams. Welcome, Mike.
Thanks, CJ. Good to be here.
Awesome. Mike has a few slides that he's gonna walk through, and then we'll move to Q&A. If there's a question that you would like me to ask, Mike, on your behalf, please put it in the question box, and I'll be sure to ask that for you. With that, Mike, I'll turn it over to you.
Thanks, C.J. Just getting started here, we want to advance the slides. Here we go. Just to frame the conversation, C.J., for your audience, GlobalFoundries focuses our energies and our R&D investments in four primary markets. These are markets where we feel like you have the right combination of secular growth and are-
Just to frame the conversation, C.J.
Oh, I've got feedback, sorry.
... GlobalFoundries, focuses our energies and our R&D investments in four primary markets. These are markets...
C.J., I've got massive feedback here. Sorry.
Can, do you still have the feedback now?
Maybe not. Sorry about that. These are the markets that we think provide the best opportunity for the things that we look for, which are certainty, durability, and profitability. Smart mobile devices, which is obviously the largest of our markets. Home and industrial IoT, which has been the fastest growing of our markets, traditionally until this year, where it has been sort of outpaced by what we're seeing in automotive, which will be the focus of our chat. Even in places like communication, infrastructure and data center, we see a robust SAM growth for the kinds of technologies that we provide.
If you look at a company that last year was about $8 billion, you look at that 2030 SAM, you're well in excess of opportunity that's squarely within the technologies that we play in. Double-clicking into the automotive opportunity, there's really, from left to right on the chart, three things that are relevant. There's enormous change going on in the auto industry in the three areas of autonomy, of connectedness, whether that's connectedness outside of the vehicle or within the vehicle in terms of its compute infrastructure, and obviously, electrification. You know, the first real upgrade of the locomotion of a car in over 100 years is, suffice it to say, significant.
What that drives is not necessarily a lot of auto unit growth, but a massive increase in content. If you take the base configuration of an internal combustion engine, with little or no autonomy, you might only have $300 worth of semiconductor. If you start to increase the EV-ness of the car and the autonomy levels, you know, you get quickly to five to 10X the content in a vehicle for semiconductors, and that's a tremendous opportunity for GlobalFoundries. 15% CAGR, and that massive growth we see in the SAM from $7 billion last year to something over $21 billion by the end of the decade. Again, in automotive, the end of the decade comes pretty quick, given the design cycle.
We're very bullish on the opportunity there. Clicking into this idea that these are the three big changes, you sort of are going from a world on your left to a world on your right, where today the car is sort of a disparate conglomeration of different functions, different electronic control units, controlling different very specific pieces of the user experience. To the right, where you actually have a hierarchical compute, zonal control, a highly networked set of sensors and MCUs, all working in conjunction under one software regime to deliver, call it, a smartphone-like user experience. The connectivity, the compute infrastructure, the sensors that sort of create the ability for this car to see where it's going, are all large opportunities for GF.
Underlying all of it is this conversion to electrification, which a lot of folks focus on the fact that it's, you know, really going to traction inverter from combustion engine. That transformation to a smartphone on wheels means the conversion, the preservation, the conditioning of all the power that has to go on in a car is what allows the future growth to basically deliver user experience on a finite resource called the length of the battery charge. I think, you know, whether it's directly driving the wheels or it's managing the distribution, the conservation of the power in the car, there's a great opportunity for the kinds of technology that GF provides.
You know, if you sum up in a nutshell, what we're doing in auto is we're taking advantage of those major architectural transformations that I just went through. We have been investing in the very real differences that you have to invest in to create automotive-grade semiconductors. We're taking advantage of the fact that there's all this change, and has been, you know, sort of an awakening with the supply chain challenges that we've had to really try to change the economic model. Whereas to some foundries, the automotive market is sort of opportunistic, for us, it's been a strategy of wanting to become the automotive foundry of choice here for a number of years, and we're just starting to see the fruits of that labor.
I think those are all the slides that I'll show before we tee up the Q&A, and turn it over to you, C.J.
Perfect. That's great. I guess maybe starting with your last comment in terms of, you know, wanting to be the auto foundry of choice, and you're starting to see the fruits of that labor, you know, delves nicely into kind of the first question I had in mind, which was, you know, you pivoted from leading-edge manufacturing back in 2018 with a focus on specialty. Obviously, auto fits perfectly into this. So I guess when you talk about starting to see the fruits of that labor, can you kinda walk us through, you know, what you're seeing, you know, why you're winning, and then we can go from there?
I think what you're referring to is in 2018, we made the strategic decision to not continue to invest, below 12 nm. You know, the question on the table, at that, at that point was, you know, would there be enough opportunity in those nodes that we remained in, and have enough investment opportunity to generate, the kind of revenue growth and returns that we needed to be a public company. I think the simple answer is, you know, we found, across end markets like automotive, really attractive returns.
You know, I think we've talked about it publicly, you know, a business in auto that was, you know, less than $100 million in 2020 has become what we're calling today is to be about $1 billion this year. Suffice it to say that the pivot away from things that would've been difficult for us at our scale, towards the opportunity to invest, to differentiate, the nodes that, you know, once upon a time had been leading edge themselves, has turned out to be very fruitful for us.
Excellent. Maybe to kind of level set, you know, where we are today, you talked about kind of, the $1 billion plus or minus in total auto revenues in 2023. Can you frame, you know, what's driving that across, however you wanna describe it? I know you have 27 sub-segments within auto, but is there a way to think about partitioning what's driving that revenue base?
Yeah, I think you can use those same three buckets instead of getting into 27 sub-battlegrounds. It's really first and foremost, the compute infrastructure of the car. You know, today, the mainstream process technology for automotive microcontroller, where you have, you know, think of dozens, 80, 100 microcontrollers per car, those are just now moving to 40 nm. You know, we have single source positions with two of the largest three microcontroller companies in automotive, so, you know, that's a major driver of our growth. You know, to do a 40-nm automotive MCU is implying that you're not only doing that, but you're doing it across the auto grades that are required at the reliability levels that are required.
Because it's an MCU, you're able to incorporate features like embedded non-volatile memory. Since this is really the state of the present here is just starting to ramp 40 nm, that's a bulk of the growth. The second area that hasn't been as impactful for revenue, but it's very promising in the future, is the part we play in autonomy, which is not so much the, you know, the compute engine that's doing the autonomous driving, but it's all the sensors that are required to surround a vehicle to provide the high-quality information to that central unit. You know, frankly, the quality of the ADAS is lives and dies by the quality of the sensing.
That's another major area for us. Finally, in electrification, we find that because we have a lot of skills in things like BCD, high voltage technologies for auto, and at extreme auto grades, the opportunity for battery management in electric vehicles is also driving growth for us in 2023, and should continue well beyond.
Very helpful. If we could focus on the sensor side, just trying to make sure I get a good sense for the drivers there. I believe you're a leader in FDSOI for radar and high-end sensors for vision. Is that kind of what we should be thinking about, or are there other drivers over time that we should be incorporating in our model for that part of your business?
Yeah, I think if you look at semiconductor technology as it applies to sensing, you know, the common theme for GF is that none of those applications really drive much value out of smaller, faster transistors. They really drive value out of more high precision RF and analog, and lowest possible power consumption. You know, when you think about call it 77 GHz radar, you know, it's a wireless subsystem. You know, it very much plays on the strengths we have in things like 5G millimeter wave, where, you know, the same attributes, it means something.
Your ability to transmit a high-quality signal, to receive a signal that's in a harsh environment, to do it at the lowest possible power, and to capture the highest resolution image to pass on to the driver assistance software, all feels very much like the same attributes you'd have in a 5G handset. You know, you want it to provide you more range, higher data rate, better call quality, and you don't want it to drain your battery. There's a very simple metaphor between the same kinds of attributes that you'd see in a wireless millimeter wave handset are very similar to what's valuable in a car..
... because you want that car to have the best possible vision. These are all predicated on the strengths that GF has in analog RF, and as you mentioned, with our FDSOI, incredibly low drain on the battery. With all these different electronic systems eventually drawing their power from the same battery source, it really is gonna matter that you're getting the maximum performance for the lowest possible power, and that's where 22FDX fits in nicely.
Excellent. Maybe before discussing kind of a design wins and long-term agreements that you've been mentioning over the past quarters and years, perhaps we could kind of frame top down how to think about growth. You know, the business essentially tripled, you know, over the last two years. In the slides you showed, I think it was a $7 billion SAM in 2022, $21 billion SAM in, by 2030. You know, how fast can this business grow, you know, if you start thinking out over the next kind of decade?
Yeah, it's a good question. It's sort of eye-popping year-over-year growth, especially in what people consider as a down cycle, you know, 120 some odd percent year-on-year. I don't think our expectations are that we'll continue to have year-on-year numbers like that. You look at the 15% CAGR in the SAM, you look at the five to 10x increase in semiconductor content, you think about, you know, still the vast majority of those chips being in process technologies that are inside of the GF portfolio. You know, I think, you know, we will use all of those to continue to drive the business. You know, clearly line of sight to doubling again.
You know, when you look at our, our backlog of design wins, you know, I'm not gonna say that we saw it coming all along, but, you know, we've had sort of, you know, $multi-billion years of automotive design wins, despite having, you know, $hundreds of millions of revenue. We're just converging on the design win pipeline that we've been seeing over the last few years. You know, putting in place the capacity to service that as we mix, you know, to this more accretive, business over time. You know, the automotive market for us has all the things that we, that we covet, which is, you know, durability over long periods of time.
Certainly in that, you know, at some level, the automotive OEMs are very comfortable with their long-term plans and profitability, where this business, over the long run, is accretive to our stated long-term model. It's a great business for us, and I think we'll continue to grow. Maybe not 120%, you know, year on year, but in that ballpark of the 15% CAGR, 5-10x silicon content, you know, this is truly just the beginning for us.
Perfect. Maybe, trying to get a little bit more knowledgeable around kind of your long-term agreements. I think you talked about $2 billion+ of LTAs in auto, and I think TTM design wins of about $1.5 billion. How should we be thinking about, you know, number one, what percentage of these wins are single-sourced versus multi-sourced? How long is a typical contract when you're making these type of capacity investments to support your auto customers?
I think as we focus ever more on very differentiated solutions, you know, our, you know, we're talking about, you know, 90% ballpark of sole source, single source solutions. In terms of the way we structure the LTAs, you know, I think we've been talking about, you know, they're sort of they vary by customer, by market, and they've been averaging about four years. Honestly, in these automotive markets, you know, we see that stretching and sort of averaging up the duration of these LTAs. It's not uncommon to have seven-year-plus automotive LTAs, you know, that still take a couple of years to kick in.
You know, maybe the entire duration of an LTA in automotive could look and feel more like getting close to 10 years of visibility. You know, automotive actually is probably more well-suited from both sides to locking in long-term, durable commitments. Because, you know, if you, if you think back, just, you know, it's hard to imagine, but just, you know, a year and a half ago, this industry was losing billions of dollars in cars they couldn't ship, just for lack of semiconductor supply. You know, long-term agreements with Foundry are actually a perfect match for an industry and a set of customers that actually have pretty good predictability on what they're gonna need.
As they get more sophisticated about how they manage the strategies for what kinds of chips are gonna show up in their cars of the future, the LTAs are a great instrument to solve both the capacity problem, and frankly, the putting automotive interest in the front end of the technology roadmap, so that they're actually driving technologies for the applications that they care about, versus frankly, for 30 or 40 years, being the sort of taking the hand-me-downs from compute and wireless handset.
Last question on the contract side. If you get a new design win, how should we be thinking about layering in of revenues from that, you know, specific contract? At what year would that normally peak, if we use kind of the four to seven years, you know, duration as an example?
It varies from case to case. you know, the way I think about it is, you know, using those longer durations, it's typically speaking to, you know, the development phase, the ramping phase, and then getting to some steady state run rate. honestly, once you've solved for that steady state run rate, you're in pretty good shape to sort of see those volumes continue well beyond the end of those agreements. What it sets up is, as you get a couple of years into these LTAs, and this is sort of true across all LTAs, it's easier to go tack on another incremental year or two as you grow into that volume.
I think these are evergreen LTAs in most cases, where you set a duration to get you to a certain capacity level with certainty and durability. Each year, you know, you decide how much more you want to tack on. These are very much evergreen arrangements. If you're in a market like auto, you know, these can be 10 to 15 years of total lifetime demand easily, for which, you know, you cover the first half with the first instantiation of the contract, and the back half with, you know, extensions. That's what we would expect, and again, it speaks to the attractiveness of those automotive markets to GF.
Makes sense. More recently, GF established a first-of-its-kind, at least that I'm aware of, direct-to-source LTA with General Motors, where you are going to have dedicated capacity corridor at Malta to support them. You know, how do you think about this trend, you know, as it relates to kind of pricing margins, you know, duration of contract? In terms of working directly together, you know, how do you think about the potential of securing more and more, you know, market share?
Yeah, it's a very unique, and again, I think first of a kind, not last of a kind, contract. You know, you have to take yourself back to the beginnings of the automotive shortages. Frankly, most OEMs, you know, would tell you that back then, that, you know, they were not very aware of where their semiconductor capacity was coming from or what choices were being made on their behalf. What they thought was, you know, a multi-sourcing strategy through multiple Tier 1s and Tier 2s, they thought was creating resiliency in their supply chain, was actually just creating an enormous amount of possible defects when it turned out that the supply-demand situation turned against them.
You know, deals like the one we announced with General Motors are acknowledging that, you know, it's far better for the OEM to secure capacity, and then allocate that capacity to their authorized purchasers, and to drive a strategy that ensures supply. The second thing that is really unique about that opportunity is, you know, deciding where you wanna have capacity built and deciding what technology you want sort of implies that, you know, you've got to put in place new capital to deliver those products.
You know, the economic model that is sort of, ensconced in this first-of-a-kind contract is to acknowledge that if that capital expenditure generates, you know, a depreciation and amortization cost to the foundry, that winds up getting marked up multiple times before it reaches the OEM, then it's very much in the interest of the OEM to intercept that expense much earlier in the process.
You know, that's how we get to a different economic model that allows, you know, an automotive OEM to get the three things they want: the technology they want, where they want it, the economic model that makes it affordable, and, you know, frankly, you know, the security of supply, knowing that, you know, if I built a wafer in 2021, we might not know immediately if it was gonna go to an automotive application or an industrial or consumer. Even if it was going to automotive, there would be a question of which fabless company it might go to. There might be a question of on their side as to which Tier 1 that chip wound up in, and then ultimately, which OEM.
Circumventing all of that is securing the wafers and making sure that they can only wind up in that OEM's vehicle is part of the game-changing part, it gives us the certainty and durability to make those capital investments with great confidence. That's the thing I think you'll see more of as we go forward.
From just securing the capacity perspective, is that kind of actual wafers or more virtual in the sense that a customer or an OEM could decide to toggle between Malta and Dresden and Singapore? Or would it be specific, a specific factory?
That's a mix of two good points. You know, in this case, it's very specific, it's very tangible, it's capacity at a certain level and a certain process that, to your other point, we are able to transfer in. It's an existing process that we can reshore back to America from Singapore, to give not only the certainty of the aggregate supply, but also make it domestically supplied, which was attractive, you know, in this case. It also does highlight the utility of having not only a breadth of product, but a breadth of interchangeable product across different regions.
We can build, in many cases, you know, as you roll out this strategy, you could build the same process technology in at least two, possibly three different geographies. You're creating resilience, not only in terms of, you know, avoiding some of the more geopolitical hotspots in the world, but you're actually creating the ability to multi-source. Specifically, this agreement is a specific capacity in a specific place, but, you know, the benefits of being able to run the same process in Dresden that you run in America, or in Singapore, and in Dresden, those are benefits to everybody, the OEMs and the Tier 1s, because they get the diversity.
For us, we get the flexibility, that when one market is up or one customer is up, and another one is down, we have the flexibility to flex across the footprint of facilities that we have worldwide.
Excellent. Maybe we could focus on capacity, an obvious focus for basically the entire world, but clearly for automakers over the last handful of years. I guess, can you speak to, you know, what your plans are, in terms of capacity additions specific to auto? You know, this year, next year, whatever timeframe you deem appropriate.
I guess the way you can think about it is, you know, with the CapEx investments that we've sort of already made or have said we intend to make, you know, we probably are getting close to the ability to go from sort of that 2.4 million wafers that we talked about at IPO up to around three million. Now, the rate and pace at which that shows up in production is based on a lot of different factors, but it gives us the flexibility to meet the automotive demand that we're seeing. That's been a, you know, There's 2 parts you need to get automotive growth, right?
You need to have the designs, and then you need to have the capacity. You know, we feel really good that we've got enough CapEx and tooling that we can grow up to three million wafers. With the demand that we see with automotive can get more than their fair share of that expansion. That's sort of short to mid-term. Long-term, we look for deals where we can get optionality on larger chunks of future capacity. You know, a great example is what we're doing in Crolles with the French government and ST.
You know, the EU has actually, you know, come through with not just, you know, the notion of doing funding of chips, but has actually approved that funding. Now here we are, sort of spring-loaded, where we have got the ability to expand capacity a little longer term, on good economic terms, but always predicated on actual customer demand. Nothing speculative, no build it and they will come. Just having the flexibility to say, "We know where we'd build it. It's all ready to go." You know, given the backlog of automotive, of interest and demand, you know, a really likely combination.
You know, you will see the same thing in the U.S., where we have ability to expand the capacity in the existing facility in Malta. GM is a great example of using some of that headroom. And then ultimately, you know, via things like the CHIPS Act, the ability to over the long term double the size of the wafer output that we have coming out of the U.S. Sort of a short, medium, and long strategy on being able to meet upticks in demand and do it in a very capital-efficient way.
Excellent. Maybe, a simple question next. Why does GF win in the auto world? I guess, you know, can we apply sort of the same drivers that drive success elsewhere at GF, namely importance of connectivity, power management, and feature-rich analog, and/or anything specific that we should be taking outside of that within the automotive bucket?
Yeah, so Look, why we win in automotive is the same reason we would win in any market. You know, you have to bring value, to capture value. It also turns out that, you know, automotive is not a market you can dabble in. You have to be very committed across all your various process nodes and all your different factories to deliver the kinds of features, the kinds of services, the kinds of ruggedness that don't happen with fleeting interest or fleeting investment. As I said before, you know, automotive is an elemental part of our strategy. It's not accidental. We don't build for the commercial market and then hope there's some automotive applications.
We really focus a disproportionate amount of our R&D, again, you know, punching above the current revenue run rate to automotive applications, automotive innovation, automotive process technology. You know, we're putting our money where our mouth is and delivering value. As we discussed, because automotive is very dynamic, it's been through a pretty traumatic experience and an awakening as to the strategic importance of semiconductors in that end market, to deliver, you know, the user experiences that they'll need to. It's created a great opportunity for us to get just much closer because of the vital nature of semiconductor technology to that market.
You know, think about it, you know, three years ago, I think automotive was 4% of our revenue. This last quarter it was 10% of our revenue. We've told you it's gonna continue to grow, you know, you can almost imagine what that would be as a, as a, as a year 2023 number. You know, clearly solidly in the double digits. You know, this is, this is a, you know, on one hand, very simple. You know, you focus, and you add value, and, you know, if you do that, you have... You win. I think in Foundry, you know, you look at the strategies of other competitors, and they've got other very, you know, very valid strategic interests in different areas.
I think we're the only ones that can raise our hand and say, "We've double and triple down in these specific end markets," and auto is a, is a great example of that.
Very helpful. Maybe we could pivot to your future roadmap. Given, you know, the seat that you're in, you obviously have to take a longer-term view. What gets you most excited in terms of your tech roadmap, thinking out over the next five to ten years? You know, is it, is it, you know, kinda silicon-germanium, gallium nitride, silicon photonics? You know, what gets you excited?
Yeah, I guess, you know, if you just sort of walk through them, you know, on the, in the, in the data center and the AI world, you know, we think there's, you know, massive opportunities for us in power delivery. You know, managing the power that those massive data centers are requiring. Also, realizing that there's gonna be a big transition from, you know, electrons to photons, from carrying everything in wires to carrying it on fibers and making that transition. You know, in automotive, we talked about the three big ones. You know, we're putting more and more radar and lidar technology into cars, more imaging, just plain old automotive cameras.
You know, we've got a strong incumbent position on the microcontrollers that still has multiple nodes left to carry it out through the next two, three decades. The advantages we see in the IoT world with 22FDX will be directly applicable to the MCUs today that are just ramping in 40. Beyond that, similar plans for 12 FinFET. In the electrification space, you know, we've got a very strong battery management portfolio, but we are looking at wide bandgap materials like GaN, which we think has a lot of promise, not only in automotive, but in RF, in Micro LED. That's an exciting area as well.
Then, you know, just some of the core, the core markets that we've always served, continued innovation on the RF side, you know, as we go from, you know, FR2 5G to FR3. You know, there's constant innovation to sort of continue to deliver better wireless performance across both wireless handsets and connected low-power IoT devices. All the engines of growth are growth engines because of the R&D that we're doing and the roadmap that we see out in front of us. You know, I think we're actually just getting started.
I guess we would love to hit on two points there, if I could. Can you elaborate on, you know, your exposure on the electrification side? You talked about strong BMS. Secondarily, with the shift to more domain controllers, zonal architecture in vehicles, can you speak to your positioning there, as well as what kind of increased content you could see there?
Yeah. In electrification, you know, it's interesting. You can focus on the specific thing that's being electrified as being going from an internal combustion engine to a traction inverter, but probably the bigger story is that now every single element in the car becomes power sensitive. That wasn't the case before. When you had an alternator being run on a battery, right, you had a sort of... as long as you were driving, you had an endless source of power. You could air condition, you could heat, you could play videos on the screens, you could have as many screens as you wanted. You had a, sort of a, a renewable source.
The opportunities in electrification for us are really the management of all that power, all those different voltage domains, all the different conversions, and the conditioning and the preservation of energy across now every single system in the car. That is probably the biggest area that electrification gives us, is not only the direct control of the different voltage domains in the car, but the overall premium on power, power. That leads directly into you know, your second question, which is, the technologies that were chosen for the current crop of microcontrollers, you know, power was on the list of important things, but in the next generation, power becomes primary.
The benefits of things like 22FDX that we've seen in the IoT world, and they're beneficial because they run off of batteries, right? Guess what? It's a bigger battery, but it's still a battery. You know, in automotive, the transition to zonal control, you know, will still benefit us in terms of combining that with a real focus on power and moving things from 40 to 22. If those zonal controllers are beefier and maybe fewer to our 12 FinFET product line with embedded nonvolatile as well. That's sort of how the zonal thing fits in.
What we always have to remember is, you know, the car is like an IoT element and an IoT network rolling around. In that IoT network model, there's real-world sensing and control and actuation that is never gonna go away in a car. You know, there may be a different architecture for the zones that are controlled, but they're all controlling very specific functions that require actual real-world sensing, high voltage actuation. You know, the microcontroller that's gonna control the suspension or the braking or the movement of the seat will still be something that has to drive a motor. You know, you'll always have a very rich mix of different MCUs, whether that's, you know, 90, 40, 22, or 12.
I think we cover really the next several decades of however that architecture evolves.
Excellent. We've got two minutes left. I was gonna turn it to you, and maybe ask, is there anything that we've missed that, you know, we should be thinking about to truly understand GF's auto business, and/or, if you had kinda concluding thoughts?
Yeah, look, I think the proof is in the results. You know, we started focusing on auto about 4 years ago. We've stuck to it, and, you know, now we're the beneficiaries of a fast-growing business in a market that's valuing semiconductor technology in a very different way than it had been historically. It's a good proxy for what we aim to do in all of the end markets we serve. The differences for automotive for us are that it's sort of unique in its durability and certainty. You know, it's a very good representative of the GF strategy. When applied to a market that has those attributes, you get the best possible outcome.
Look to us to replicate that in other areas, everything from what we do in smart mobile, IoT, data center, and even things like aerospace and defense, they all fit our business model. Remember, you know, as an $8 billion company with $120 billion worth of SAM out in 2030, you know, we can be very selective to make sure we're doing it in the most profitable, capital-efficient way. That's, I think, where I'd put a pin in it, and thank you for the opportunity.
Well, Mike, thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time to spend with us this afternoon. Best of luck, and, look forward to talking again soon.
Thanks, C.J.