We're gonna get started. We're really glad to have Gloo here. It's, it's not often I get to work with people of their caliber, as my focus has always been small to micro-cap sort of companies. Usually by the time someone's had the successes that you two gentlemen have had, you're not in my world. I'm extraordinarily pleased to have you with us today. Why don't maybe we start with both of you introducing yourself and give us a little bit of your background and try not to be too humble on it. 'Cause I think it really matters to the company how much, you know, background you have and experience you both bring to the table. It's very unusual, so let's let our investors really kinda understand how much firepower you bring to the scale of this company.
Great. We'll do that. Rich, thanks for having us. I'm Scott Beck, co-founder of Gloo. We've been around almost 15 years now. We'll talk a little bit more about that. Before I was running Gloo, I had the privilege of being involved with Blockbuster Video as president and Chief Operating Officer from store 1 to store 5,000. Einstein Bros. Bagels as chairman and CEO. HomeAdvisor, which is now Angie's. Ancestry.com. A number of different businesses. During and always in either the founder or CEO position in those businesses. When we sold Blockbuster to Viacom in 1993, like a billion years ago, we made pretty good money.
What we did is we created a family office, and we started doing a lot of donative funding into the faith and human flourishing ecosystem, which is the system that we serve at Gloo, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. Pat?
Yeah. Pat Gelsinger. I've been in technology, this is year 46 for me in tech, so I started when I was 4 years old, but you know literally I started at Intel at 18 years old, so 34 years at Intel r ose to be CEO of VMware, president of EMC, so you know, extraordinary career. If you've used USB, Wi-Fi, microprocessors or cloud, I helped create them. When my granddaughter plugs into a USB stick, she says, "Thank you, Papa." You know, it's been a you know, pretty extraordinary tech journey. You know, I've been associated with Gloo for about a decade, as investor, board chair, and post my Intel retirement, became Head of Technology for Gloo.
Somewhat like Scott, you know, I've been investing in the faith ecosystem. You know, I've started a number of charities and philanthropy work, but also found their technology sucks, right? Gloo is fixing that, right? Every time you give a dollar to a charity, you're getting, like, $0.80 worth of value because their technology sucks. If we turn that into a dollar, $1.20, $1.30, you know, we're creating extraordinary leverage, right, on hundreds of billions of dollars, right, and, you know, over a trillion dollars of economic impact in the world today, right, in the U.S. alone, right, going through philanthropic organizations. When you look at Gloo, if we go to the next slide, you know, it is an enormous TAM that we're reaching into.
We break the ecosystem into two sides, what we call the network side and the organization side. On the network side, you know, these are organizations that literally could be, you know, a billion-plus large, right? You know, organizations, campus ministries, worldwide relief organizations. You know, large organizations that are not tech orgs but need tech, right, for it. That side of the ecosystem, we estimate $130 billion of TAM. You know, most of our business is on that side of the ecosystem, about 70%. On the other side is many of these individual organizations that are being serviced by the network partners, and this could be your local church, your local parish, your local recovery organization, as well, and there's a large TAM on that side. Right, on the network side, this is a sales-led motion that we have.
You know, we are selling to these organizations our capabilities, which we'll describe a bit more in a second. On the other side, this is a product-led motion, right? These could be small churches, you know, to reasonable-size organizations, but it needs to be a digital motion to effectively sell. Overall, as you see on the slide, well over $200 billion of TAM. You know, this year we're $185 million revenue organization reaching into over $200 billion of TAM. We have lots of market in front of us, and we're essentially uncompeted in serving this market. You know, it's built on trust. You have to have long-term trusted relationships to sell to these organizations. We don't compete with McKinsey's, Tata's, or anybody like that. We compete with do-it-yourself, right? In the AI boom, these organizations can't keep up, and that's what we're stepping into, and we're seeing our business accelerate.
You know, like Pat was saying, it's so important, cause, you know, people will say, "Oh, wow, you know, that little church down the street, how can that be a big business?" Well, the reality is that there's over $250 billion a year of donative capital coming into this ecosystem. As Pat also said, the left-hand side, those are the network capability providers. Those are, you know, the denominations. Last month, we closed Assemblies of God, one of the largest denominations in the world. We took over all of their infrastructure. The same month, we also closed the Archdiocese of Kansas City, taking over their infrastructure. Now, you know, those are both denominations, right? It's also important to realize they're about as far on the theological spectrum as you can get.
The Assemblies of God, those are speaking in tongues and prophecies, and you know, you've got high mass at the Catholic Church in Kansas City and that Archdiocese. We're also covering things like Bible translators. There's close to $4 billion a year in the United States going into Bible translation right now. That concentrates into about 12 different organizations. A year ago, we got our first organization, Wycliffe, $5 million a year ARR customer for us. Since then, we've gone from having one Bible translators to 10 out of the 12. We've closed 10 out of the 12. What happens in this ecosystem is when you get one of those, you tend to get the rest. They work together.
Yes, they're somewhat competitive, but in reality, they're way more collaborative than they are competitive, and we use that to our advantage to be able to use our trust, our success, and be able to do more. Campus ministries, humanitarian aid, universities. Pat, talk about what we just got done with universities.
Yeah, universities, there's 900 faith-based universities in the United States, right? You know, an average revenue is over $50 million for those organizations, right? If you just say they're spending 4% or 5% on IT, you know, they have real IT budgets, but they're not keeping up. As we start to win those organizations, and we just won our first one, you know, a few months ago, now we have a pipeline of over 10 of them, right? They can't keep up with technology. We're stepping in to be their technology, their AI, and their marketing partner. If you go to the next slide, you know, the two things that we fundamentally do for these organizations are power tech and power reach. Power technology, they can't keep up. They can't run their databases.
They can't run their ERP, CRMs, et cetera, and they have no hope of getting in front of the AI wave. Power and reach, for the most part, these organizations are donor-fed, right? You know, their revenues come from donors who are supporting those missions and causes, and our biggest business today is actually marketing services that we provide to these customers, enabling them to more effectively reach, right, their audiences. Underneath both of them is an increasingly AI-driven digital platform that's enabling them to have more refined reach into the market, more agentic tools to transform their IT infrastructure. You know, we take over. We become technology, so we might take 30, 40 people that used to work for a Bible translator. They become a Gloo employee. They become 20 technology now infused capabilities and tens of agents running those services.
Every day, we turn a person into an agentic workflow. You know, we improve margin, and we improve the customer experience, and this is what we're now doing at scale in a very repeatable way. Powering reach, powering technology on a AI platform that's values-based, right? You know, our customers wanna know they're doing things that align with their values, new data stores, you know, new chat services, and increasingly agentic workflows.
Yep. As we said on the network capability providers, it's 70, getting closer to 75% of our revenue is on that side, and 30%-25% of the revenue is on the churches and the frontline organizations. We use a sales motion on the network capability providers, and we have a product-led motion on the churches, you know, they're smaller sales, so that's a product-led motion. If you look at what we're getting done financially, it's pretty staggering. You know, two years ago, we were at $23 million in revenue. We just gave guidance.
We pre-announced Q4, you know, around $93 million, up from 2024, $25.9 million, and we've given guidance to $185 million for 2026. Of that growth, about half of that, 40% growth rate on the $100 million run rate at the end of the year will be organic growth this year. We're organically growing at about 40%, we have a couple acquisitions that we'll do this year, which will basically take us to $185. The analysts have us at $300 million for 2027, you know, we're pushing hard toward those numbers. Likewise, from a profitability standpoint, we just gave guidance on Q1.
We told them that we would be at the better end of the range for Q4, so that might put us at, you know, -$18.5 million or something. But then you'll see a very significant improvement to maybe -$12 million of EBITDA crossing over, approaching profitability in Q3 and solidly profitable in Q4. We're making great progress leveraging revenue, leveraging AI, leveraging the cost, getting the cost out of the system, and then just, you know, improving margins. That's a high level review of where we're at with Gloo. You know, the bottom line is that we have two bottom lines. One is, you know, we're very serious about building a great business. Both of us are intense business guys. But we also have trust in the system, and we believe in the system.
You know, we've got the commitment to serving this ecosystem with the best technology, with the best reach, so that they can do more in terms of, you know, changing the lives that they're all committed to changing.
Over to you, Rich.
All right.
Now it's your turn to do the job.
Yeah. My nerves will probably hopefully carry us through this. Let's see. Let's start with M&A. M&A has been really important to the company, you know. You know, when you showed the slides, the network capability providers, obviously a very natural place for you to go. So how do you decide, you know, prioritize, pick, you know, what you need to do and who you think is the most attractive targets?
Yeah. First of all, you know, we've done M&A of organizations that have been on our platform. One, we know them, okay? The second one is they're best in class. Whether it's Donor Services, Masterworks is, you know, a great. They've been around 35 years. Donor Services, they're really great at. Westfall Gold, we just added here at the end of the year. They're the crème de la crème for the top-end donors. If you wanna pull together events and if you wanna pull together data-driven strategies for million-dollar donors, that would be Westfall Gold. Everyday donors, that would be Masterworks. That's a good example.
We've been working with both of those organizations, you know, Westfall Gold for seven years before we bought them, Masterworks for probably five years before we bought them. Another good example is Barna. Barna is the Gallup of the faith ecosystem. You wouldn't know Barna, but if you're in this ecosystem, you know Barna, and you revere Barna and their research. We've been working with Barna for five years. That also helps us on the donor side. Why don't you talk a little bit about what we've done on the tech side?
You know, we integrate, you know, companies to also build out the technology platform. Companies that we acquired last year, one was XRI, which happens to be the best AI language company in the industry. Our ecosystem has been worried about language since it began, right? You know, translating the Bible, reaching, you know, educational materials, content, and they are the leading provider of long-tail languages. There's 7,000 languages, 20,000 total dialects. Only about 100 of them are digitally conquered, you know, today. We got a long way to go. They're the leading technology, and they're now fully integrated into the Gloo AI capabilities. We're acquiring for revenue, we're acquiring for market reach, for credibility, but we're also acquiring for technology. Now, overall, our acquisitions are uncontested.
You know, right, there was a period 15 years ago where PEs were acquiring some of these companies that was seen as not successful for the PEs, not successful for the mission alignment. For the most part, we're able to be very effective using cash, low multiples, high stock components to keep those companies highly motivated for Gloo's success. Very effective, right, at our multiples for acquisition, uncompeted, and they wanna continue executing their mission. Furthermore, you know, this year is a year to be less focused on acquisitions and more focused on profitability. We'll be doing a couple. One of those is already done, Westfall Gold. Second one is well in sight. Now it's much more about, you know, consolidating, getting the profitability, getting the platform really well integrated, even as we'll continue to use acquisitions to accelerate the growth rate.
Fundamentally, the foundational business, Rich, you know, we wanna build a great foundational business. I see the organic business being a Rule of 40 business going forward, right? Where we're able to have high organic growth rates, we get to profitability, we'll sustain profitability, and then we add to those capabilities with M&A.
What I think is interesting too is in almost every case, the founders stay with Gloo.
Yeah.
Can you talk about how that's helped you sort of, you know, build a leadership team and your culture by keeping them?
Yeah, you know, when the founder, you know, they're on mission. You know? Yeah, they wanna create a company, they wanna create an organization, but what they really wanna do is execute a mission. You know, that mission, you know, might be associated with child trafficking. That mission might be associated, right, with donors, that, you know, et cetera. You know, they go across. If we enable them to execute their mission more effectively, and we bring them capital, we bring them market reach and better technology, you know, to them, this is the best day of their lives, right? Because now they're able to accelerate their life purpose. Right, we have essentially all of the founders, right, are still part of Gloo today, and we're giving them the platform to accelerate their missions, and that really enables high retention rates of personnel.
It also enables us to be, I'll say, the employer of choice in the category as well, because in many cases, they didn't have good tech tools before. Now they do. You know, they didn't have good market reach. Now they do. You know, we've also given them some equity liquidity, right? So, you know, they're bought in for the long term, but they also see some ability to see wealth generation as well.
Can't overstate how important trust is in this ecosystem. You know, everybody knows that relationships make a lot of things go and work, but this ecosystem is a whole 'nother level. Not only, you know, Pat Gelsinger, myself, we've both been 40 years, you know, donors and investors and board members and catalytic leaders in this ecosystem from a, you know, foundation, family, our own family capital.
When we do these acquisitions, we're basically bringing in a massive trust network. David Kinnaman has been. Barna's been out there for 40 years, as I said, the Gallup of this ecosystem. I mean, the tentacles of trust and relationship, you know, Steve and Brian from Masterworks, 35 years they've been building that business, you know. The trust transfer that we're layering in is really what makes this ecosystem very unique and gives us a massive competitive advantage in terms of being able to do not only uncontested M&A, but uncontested service providing into this ecosystem. I mean, when we're providing, doing Gloo 360, you know, we're not responding to an RFP. We're going in, we're basically being able to, on an uncontested basis, make a presentation to a board, get it closed in a really short period of time.
Can you maybe talk a little bit more about Gloo 360? I don't think everyone necessarily understands it.
Yeah.
What it can do.
What Gloo 360 is, essentially we are forward deploying our resources to become the IT and technology infrastructure of the customer. You know, let's take one of these Bible society organizations that we've already completed this with. You know, they had 30 people doing their tech department, right? On day one, they became Gloo employees. We literally have taken over their technology department, and then we begin the journey of stabilizing what they have and transforming what they have. Some of those personnel were past their expiration date, right? We handle managing the people aspects. We then upskill them. We give them modern, you know, centers of excellence for their, you know, services for ERP, CRM, technology for security, right, et cetera.
We are modernizing their environment, but then we begin a transformation journey with them, where we're turning it increasingly into agentic workflows, you know, to enable their mission. You know, one of the Bible societies, we ran their marketing campaign on exactly the same dollars year on year as the prior year, and we had 10x return, right? Imagine somebody who's, you know, essentially seeing 10x return of the same marketing campaign they ran the year prior, right? The same expenses for that with 10x return of their response rates for people to support their ministry. Extraordinary results. These organizations are not able to keep up with technology. AI has been this accelerant. We're coming into that gap in substantial ways, and Gloo 360 is becoming sort of that beachhead service.
Once we win one Bible translator, they all wanna move on the same platform because they're all working together, so we get good cross-sell within the category. We're also able to introduce them to the other services, you know, like our marketing services, like our consultative services, as well, because we have become so deeply embedded into those organizations, so deeply trusted. You know, this design win, as I say, when we win one of these customers, they're not going anywhere for decades because we truly have become their technology partner, so very sticky and uncontested.
I wanna circle back just briefly, but you touched on how long you've known some of these companies too. When companies are very M&A driven, a lot of times, you know, they have a white paper, they put a lot of logos on it, but there's no affinity. No one's known. You don't even know if they're for sale. It feels very ad hoc. You're very different because you have worked with a lot of these companies for decades. Can you talk about how important those relationships are to your ability to bring them into the Gloo family?
Yeah, no, that trust has been developed over a long period of time. Not only that, but functionality. Like Pat said, we're you know with Barna delivering them reach, powering them with reach, powering them with tech. All right? We're already working together. We know each other. We trust each other. You know, it's clear that it's gonna be synergistic for us and for the other partners. We have a conversation. You know, Barna, as an example, we own 51% of Masterworks, 100%. You know, Westfall Gold, 100%. Sometimes we'll own a controlling interest, always a consolidatable controlling interest, but sometimes we'll leave you know some minority interest out there in order to you know they wanna keep running and having that ownership, and we're flexible in terms of how we do that. Yeah, that's, it's really important.
Yeah, the way that that trust network gets then leveraged into customer sales is very powerful. You know, we mentioned Westfall Gold. You know, we had a customer call with a next university that we wanted to bring onto the platform. Well, Westfall Gold's had a trusted relationship, and in fact, one of their members is becoming a board member of that university, so that easily becomes a sales for Gloo 360, which easily become a sale for Masterworks. You know, the cross-sell, the trusted relationship, all of these create a ecosystem of momentum that we're now just really starting to see that accelerate, you know, and the revenue numbers are starting to demonstrate that significant acceleration.
I'm talking every day with investors and everyone about AI all the time. It's such a transformative time we're in. Your ability to bring that into the system, I think, is really impressive. Let's have a few questions to talk about here. How will you institute AI internally to help the company? We'll start there. We'll go to how you can help externally. Internally, how do you see it changing the company, which you're building in real time as we go?
Yeah. You know, the first thing would be even before we layer AI internally, you know, where we've described Gloo 360, where essentially we become the IT department for these organizations. The first thing we're doing is running Gloo on Gloo. Gloo is becoming a customer of Gloo 360, right? You know, as well. You know, it's even more foundational than that, and the more that we're running that way, you know, it's becoming essentially the pipe cleaner for how we're transforming our customers. Now, within that, you know, we're seeing in particular agentic workflows as transformational, right? Where we can turn people processes into agentic workflows today. To me, that is the massive unlock. The only way that agentic workflows are possible is if you have a common data infrastructure, right?
If you don't have data repositories that are able to be interacting and leveraging with each other, you can't do any of those kind of use cases. Data, you know, has always been the foundation. We've built data, right? We have a full set of APIs and services now. Right on top of that, we're building these agentic workflows. We're applying that against our business processes, right? You know, we're essentially, you know, our salespeople are now getting AI-generated, you know, customer portfolios, both priorities of customers for cross-sell, right? As well as AI-generated, you know, documentation for sales call. Introduce this. This was a reference. This is what they're doing over here. This is probably the highest need of those customers. You know, it's transforming how we're running our IT, but also how we're running sales operations.
You know, we just launched internally, for instance, our first finance agent, right? Where we're now trying to say, "Can we transform how we do audit and finance close using agentic workflows, you know, internally?" A lot of these, and of course, every one of our coders, right, you know, is now being given a token, right, quota and a set of agentic coding tools. You know, the productivity of our developers, you know, is exploding right in the face of, you know, what's been well documented across the industry. In our ecosystem, you know, very few have the competency to do that.
Y eah, our ability. You know, Pat, you know, said it clearly, you know, as we take over infrastructures and we replace people with agents, that's massive margin expansion and, you know, gives us great leverage into the next. In addition to that, what's happening with AI is it's the straw that has broken the camel's back. These large ministries, you know, they're nonprofits. They already can't afford the tech talent. Now, you know, you throw AI on top of that's really why Gloo 360 is exploding in its growth because they're just waving a white flag of surrender. They just can't keep up anymore. It's not only are we using it in our infrastructures, but it's actually driving a lot of the pipeline because they just can't keep up.
You can use a lot of AI that, let's call it off the shelf for some of these agentic processes.
Yeah.
What you can also bring to your ecosystem is a safe AI engine that, it works. Talk about how that's different than what, you know, comes off the shelf from other vendors.
Yeah. You know, you can imagine, you know, that we have, you know, we leverage the many models of the industry. You know, if you come to the developer studio that we released a few weeks ago, you know, for our ecosystem, you can have an Opus model, you can have an OpenAI model, et cetera, are all there.
Yeah, 20 models that you can use.
We also then offer that with full guardrails, right? What are guardrails? Well, our ecosystem cares about things like suicide prevention, cares about things like theological accuracy, cares about things like scripture referencing. We've built a full harness that they can say, "Great, you know, we can become your Crusoe that enables you to access all of those models," but we also enable a full set of services to have all of the guardrails that this ecosystem cares about. With that, they can have an API that simply says, "Give me your model with the guardrails appropriate to my use cases." That's becoming a meaningful differentiator. Imagine that you're a Christian university and that you're excited about making OpenAI available to your students, and they've just released adult mode, right, you know, on campus for OpenAI.
I can now make OpenAI safe for those universities to deploy because we've built a full guardrail system. You know, imagine that your YouVersion, you know, which is now 1 billion devices have the Bible app on it, you know, 1 billion and accelerating growth rate, at this point, you know, and they're having people for Bible engagement. Do they care about Bible accuracy? That's the heart and soul of what they do. If you go to any of the major models, they're only 50%-60% accurate on scripture quotations. We've taken that, and we have a system that, you know, enables the insertion of, you know, biblically accurate Bible verses in the workflows of the standard models. Our ecosystem cares about biblical accuracy, you know, theological scoring and accuracy. Our ecosystem cares, right? I'm a Baptist.
I wanna know a theological answer consistent with, you know, the Baptist view, the Catholic view, you know, the Anglican view. All of those things we take care of in the context of leveraging the best open source, you know, and the best commercially available models, you know, for the ecosystem. That's all part of what Gloo AI provides in a unique and powerful way, you know, to this ecosystem.
Yeah. The reason I talk to investors so much about it is we've seen valuations in the software and software-driven world have really come under fire because there's a worry that AI can replace these products so quickly and easily. You could write code your way into things. I think you both have a lot of experience with the challenges of building platforms and things. Talk about how hard it is to actually build those things, what the sort of moats are that make it really a ridiculous concept that AI could just replace what you do.
Yeah. You know, at least three or four different dimensions of that are super, right, defensible for us.
Yeah.
You know, one is data, right? You know, we just have more data assets. You know, we have pastor sermons coming in every, you know, week. We have more books and titles, right, you know, and things that are flowing into our platform every day, and we're by far the biggest data moat for the faith-flourishing ecosystem today, and that's that gap is getting bigger by the day. Right, you know, for it. You know, we're also becoming more multilingual. You know, we have more languages, more reach into a broader set of the long-tail languages. The first 100 are well conquered. Everybody needs the next 7,000, you know, over time. You know, we're creating more language-unique capabilities.
There's also the trust moat. Do you trust OpenAI for your teenager? Right? Do you think your teenager can get around the age requirement, notification in OpenAI, right? You know, any good teenager has hacked that, you know, before you even know how to log into that agent. You know, this is not safe, you know, for these. That trust relationship that we've built by decades of investment is enormous, right?
To reinforce that, you know, we've released things like the Flourishing AI benchmarks, you know, that we are benchmarking on a regular basis all of the public models, right, against the flourishing metrics from Harvard, Baylor, and Gallup that say this is human flourishing. You know, we've created the Christian version of those flourishing benchmark. All of those create a trust moat. We have, you know, a data moat, you know, we have a language moat, we have a trust moat, right, a values moat, you know, that we're building, and against that, you know, we're saying, you know, these AI services, they can't be mediocre. They have to be world-class, right? You're gonna come to Gloo because its values align and it's best of breed and competitive with best of breed.
When you take all of that, you end up with the network, right? We have the network. We have 140,000 churches, okay? That's 40% of all the churches in the country. We have that. We have that mapped to all these network capability providers. The denominations come to us to tell them about their own churches, 'cause we have more data on their churches than they do. We have that digital connectivity. You know, I said earlier that, you know, we just got Assemblies of God and the Archdiocese of Kansas City, you know, at the same time. Well, when you get them, you get their churches, okay?
We have 17,500 churches from the Assemblies of God that are now part of the network. Well, do those churches, do they have campus ministries that work with the campus ministries from InterVarsity or Campus Crusade for Christ or those? Yep, we work with those guys. We run all the infrastructures for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, campus ministries. Does that tie into all the churches? Does that tie into the denominations? The network is just amazing in terms of what's being built and how we allow them to get the benefit of scale with each other, and we give them the benefit of interoperability with each other. The network itself is a massive moat.
There's another level of trust that we haven't talked about with your company too, and I would say that you've attracted some investors from across the spectrum as well, and your board of directors has some very strong participants from the sector. Maybe talk about both of those factors and how that helps also give you enormous credibility boost in your chosen market.
Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, you know, performance meet beat raise, right? You know, we're out there, we're performing, we're gonna, you know, continue to perform. That's, you know, super important and, you know, that's just at an executional level, and that attracts the right talent, that attracts the right shareholder base. We have the Southern Baptists are investors in our company. The Lutherans are investors in our company. The Wesleyans are investors. The Catholics are investors. These are shareholders. I mean, you. It's hard to get those folks in one room, let alone in one cap table, right? All of that, you know, sort of adds into what it is. Then, you know, the rest of our investor base, we have, you know, a family called the Green family.
They have Hobby Lobby, very faith-forward organization. You know, they're investors. Derek Green is on our board. You know, they also run the Museum of the Bible, Washington, D.C., all sorts of partnerships there. I could go on and on, but we have over 300 investors when we were raising capital as a private company, all with faith and missional alignment, all with relationships.
Yeah. The board of directors is a world-class board as well. You know, the Green family is on it, but you know, Bobby Gruenewald, who runs YouVersion, you know, the billion Bible app, right, organization, maybe the you know, the only other great technology organization today beyond Gloo in the faith ecosystem, and he's on our board of directors. You know, some of the key denominations are represented on our board of directors. You know, we also have you know, individuals you know, for instance, the former head of McKinsey's AI practice, now a lawyer at Simpson Thacher, right? is on our board of directors. You know, a really quality you know, team of people 'cause they're aligned to the mission, right?
They're aligned to building a great company.
Yep. Let's circle back to the P&L for a minute. You showed that it's, you know, moving very rapidly in that direction. When you talk about getting to, you know, fourth quarter positive, walk through some of the pieces you have that can help you get from here to there that are in your control. 'Cause some people would say, "Well, maybe that's just based on if they can get certain contracts, then they might be able." I think you have a lot more certainty than that.
Yeah. You know, when we look at this picture, right? It's, you know, improve the bottom line, improve the top line. Right, you know, you win more business and we're, you know, have a very healthy pipeline of the revenue growth, and we'll see increasing amounts of that fall to the bottom line, right? You know, we feel very comfortable. You know, we have said that we have one acquisition. That one's done. We have a second one that's well advanced to contribute to the top line growth, so we feel very comfortable about that. We believe we'll hit our revenue number even if we don't, you know, finish another acquisition this year.
We're feeling, you know, quite confident that we have enough levers, you know, to meet, beat, raise the revenue number. You know, and then on the other side, cost management, right? You know, and that's coming two ways. One, we're just getting more cost discipline. We're growing into our cost base, right? You know, as revenues grow, right, many of the fixed costs of the businesses do not scale with revenue, you know, are fairly fixed in that, you know, so we're able to start getting better cash flow through into the business. And a piece of that, of course, is deployment of AI. You know, Gloo on Gloo, right?
Using more of the agentic services that enable us to, you know, drive margin out of those, you know, businesses like 360, where we're acquiring businesses. You know, that may be day one. It's a 30% margin, you know, deal that we've done, and we said our target margin is 50%, right? We're using AI to drive those customers, you know, with more agentic workflows to the 50% and beyond.
One of the things I think is underappreciated to date, but will be soon, I think, is how fast your organic growth really is. Not a lot of people at the scale you're at now, 'cause you've created some good scale, can talk about 40% organic growth rates.
Yeah.
Can you talk about the pieces of the business and how they're managing to grow that fast? This isn't a new space necessarily. What you're bringing to it that's helping that organic growth be as good as it is?
Yeah. You know, this repeatability of sale, right? You know, clearly, like we said, we had one Bible, you know, translator, now we have 10 of the 12, right? There is this ability to accelerate sales within a category. You know, moving to universities, now we're, you know, closing sales, you know, more rapidly. The ability to, you know, sell within a category, but then we're able to cross-sell, right, of other services as well. You know, for instance, when we closed Westfall Gold, the acquisition, immediately, right, we turned AI agents loose on their customer list. You know, where do we have cross-sell opportunities for Masterworks or for 360? We see the cross-sell within customers. On our last earnings call, we said we have 20 customers now over $1 million ARR.
You know, we expect that we'll be updating that regularly on earnings call. You know, we have our first customer closing in on 10, right? We're now starting to see some of these cross-sell opportunities, you know, become very large customer relationships going forward. You know, the ability to take, you know, a $100 million organization, right? Be able to, you know, be delivering them a couple of million dollars' worth of IT, you know, value. You know, thinking that 4%-5% range, right, is available for us in a $100 million, you know, account. You know, just on IT, you know, we can get close to $4 million or $5 million.
When we start selling marketing and other revenue-producing services as well, you can see that account becoming, you know, $5 million, maybe even $10 million over time as we have more of these other services that come into it. Anytime you're, you know, cross-selling a different offering into an account, that's a more efficient sale, right? You know, cost of sales is declining, right? The stickiness that you have in the relationship, you know, portends to better margin in those accounts over time.
Okay.
As Pat said, we were at YouVersion yesterday. YouVersion is the Bible app. 1 billion have already been downloaded. Definitely the biggest additional tech company in the ecosystem. They're a not-for-profit, we're a for-profit. We work very well together. When we were there yesterday, we're going through that. They're working with Gloo AI. We're doing a bunch of things with them on Trust. They're working with Midwestern. They're working with Servant. They're working with Westfall Gold. Okay, you've got independent contracts on all these things. Yesterday they said, "Hey, please give us a proposal on Masterworks so that we can see what we can do." This is like one of the most sophisticated other tech companies in this ecosystem. We're working with them across all those different brands.
Yeah. You've, in under, I think, 18 months, scaled the business up almost 6x. It's an extraordinarily, you know, fast scaling. Can you talk about maybe some of the challenges of that and how you've managed to do it and at the same time, accelerated organic growth. It's hard to believe you can kinda do both at once, so.
Yeah. With much pain, suffering, and agony, right? Right. You know, I, you know, none of us should be trivial, right, you know, with regard to, you know, integrating multiple businesses, getting them on common systems. You know, I mean, some of the, you know, from my, you know, VMware days, one of my worst, you know, two quarters in a row was when we moved to ASC 606 accounting, right? You know, just dreadful, right, kinda stuff. Well, you know, we have a bunch of businesses that were, you know, right, not-for-profit, private companies, et cetera. Getting them to ASC 606 accounting, ugh, right?
Just dreadful. You know, you go do the work, right? As you get them there, every quarter they get better, right? This, you know, the revenue recognition gets better, right? We're dealing with, you know, sales systems. How do you get them on, you know, good proper sales systems? How do you get contractual, you know, consistency and leverage, you know, so that you're getting, you know, sales repeatability from an enterprise sales capability? How do you get better, you know, financial close, right, and rigor under the financial? Some of this is just work, right, you know, at the end of the day. Also, the other side of it is some of this is the value prop is there, right?
You know, one of the, you know, I think that I'm probably most startled by, and I think Scott has said the same thing, is our sales cycles are accelerating, you know. If you can, you know, having run, you know, significant enterprise sales organizations, you know, in my, you know, as I finished VMware, I had 25,000 people in my customer-facing organization, right? Enterprise sales at scale, right? You know, we're now seeing pretty, you know, common that we're closing sales in 90 days, right, you know, for an enterprise sales motion, which any enterprise sale that's less than nine months is pretty, you know, extraordinary.
You know, now we're seeing, you know, deals come into the pipeline and close in 90 days, so we're seeing that acceleration of the value proposition, you know, that we're bringing to, you know, this ecosystem. If your sales cycles are accelerating, okay, that says that you continue those kind of growth rates. Being able to say, "Hey, we're gonna be a Rule of 40 company, you know, for multiple years into the future," okay, yeah. You know, we see that easily in the pipeline because the market's so big and the value proposition is increasing.
When I think about this from a very high level, I often think of it as almost like a franchise model where you're the corporate head office and you can provide the services out to the network capability providers a lot. Talk about how much, how important it is that your portfolio of services is growing so that you can be more of a one-stop vendor to those. Do you think you've reached sort of critical mass in that? Do you think that's ahead still as you maybe acquire another, you know, several more companies to flesh out the suite of offerings?
You know, the ability, you know, we have critical mass. Right? If we acquire nothing else, right, we're already at critical mass t o articulate an extraordinary TAM. Right? At that level, we see lots of areas to add things to the portfolio.
Yeah.
Right? You know, there's not, you know, it's not very hard to think about what should be next, right? In a number of the cases, hey, you know, right now we're supporting enterprise applications. Well, if we become the reseller of those applications, I've eliminated procurement on the part of my customers, given them a value proposition, and increased our, you know, top line and margin capacity, you know, for doing that. Okay, that was not that hard to go, you know, do it. You know, we're not doing anything in the financial today, right? We're interfacing with financial systems, but hey, you know, if we're in the revenue flow, you know, more directly, you know, that's another value that we can be giving to these customers over time. There's plenty of areas that we can layer more value into the platform.
You know, fundamentally, we're already at critical mass. You know, when you're growing this rapidly, you don't have to worry too much about the incremental things that you put into the platform. We do see those opportunities just further cementing our position, right, increasing our revenue, and most importantly, increasing our margin opportunity.
Yeah.
Yeah, as Pat said, if you look on the left-hand side of the screen here, Donor Services, that we have a lot more to go there, and that's the heartbeat of this ecosystem. You know, helping them with marketing and research, that's part of that reach, powering reach. You know, you start moving down into more content, more AI capabilities. We've made some very good acquisitions from an AI standpoint. We'll continue to do that. And you get down into financial products. I mean, this may end up being our biggest area ultimately is what happens in financial products. Everything from church loans to, you know, values-based investing on behalf of the congregants. This is an enormous ecosystem. Highly motivated.
Maybe, we're starting to run down, but I'd like to talk about not just who you select for acquisitions, but sort of the metrics you wanna look at and understand and how in the long run, you choose to use either cash flow, debt, or equity in structuring deals so that people can understand as you scale up sort of what your financial profile should look like.
A couple things. Number one, non-competed deals. We don't compete. We're not. These people are not in a process. We typically have been paying 1x -1.5x revenue, call it 5 times EBITDA before synergies, okay? Before we can accelerate growth, before we can take out costs, very reasonable. From a composition, we're typically wanting to make sure that we're somewhere between 20%-30% cash.
We don't like to go above that cash, and then the rest is either gonna be a little bit of seller financing. You know, stock price is down right now. We don't wanna put out a lot of stock. The last couple deals that we've done, we then did more seller financing. You know, they put in seller financing on some subordinated notes, and we give them some stock. Yeah, you can sort of think of it maybe a third, a third, a third, is the way that we've been structuring these deals, very cash efficient. As Pat said, we don't need to do any more M&A. We will do it absolutely opportunistically when it really totally makes sense from a strategy standpoint and an economic standpoint.
You know, you've been public less than a year. How has that transition sort of changed the market perception of Gloo?
You know, it's helped to, you know, bring more visibility, you know, to the company. You know, generally, I think, you know, the market doesn't understand this ecosystem.
Mm-hmm.
Right? You know, when you talk about, you know, faith and flourishing, you know, it's the 50-person church down the street, right, you know, that has half a pastor and is broke, right? How do you make a business, right, you know, servicing them, right? You know, one of the things is just helping people understand the sheer massiveness of this ecosystem. You know, there's 300,000+ churches. Some of those churches are over 100,000 members, right? These aren't small organizations, right? You know, the biggest network, you know, providers, you know, that we have are over $5 billion in revenue, right? These are large organizations with large tech needs. You know, together they represent over $1 trillion of economic capacity in the nation today, growing faster than GDP. Right?
If you think about that, you know, churches, you know, are they growing or shrinking and so on, the economic capacity of this is 5.5%-6%, you know, versus GDP. You know, this is big. It's highly fragmented at that level, and there's nobody who's in the middle of servicing that other than Gloo, right? You know, we're the unique company who spent decades building that relational trust, you know, as we've talked about, that's in a situation to service that ecosystem at scale. AI has provided that unique inflection point that now is, "Okay, I give up. I need help," you know? We're seeing this acceleration of our business as a result. You know, when you think about that at scale, right, you know, it's sort of like, "Wow, this is a great business," right?
Getting public was helpful in that. Obviously, it allowed us to clean up the, you know, balance sheet. You know, we have minimal debt, you know, left. It's a clean play at this point. You know, there's lots of stuff going on, whether we have, you know, Iran war, right, a SaaS sell-off in the face of AI, right, you know, markets being closed for government shutdowns. You know, so there's been lots of reasons that the stock ain't traded well. You know, plus, we're not profitable yet. You know, I mean, the normal multiples and matrices, but all of this comes together, right? You know, in the second half of this year as we break through to profitability, you know, Rule of 40 kinda growth rates and profitability going forward, this is a pretty stunning company sitting in a large fragmented ecosystem with no competition.
The leaders in applied AI for this ecosystem, not contested.
Right.
Yeah. Our core belief is that on the other side of the SaaSpocalypse we're going through, we believe that for complex mission critical companies, which you're building, we think AI is a boon to the industry.
No doubt.
We think it can cut your costs, increase your revenue opportunities. If you can be more profitable and larger, it should be a renaissance for the software world for leaders of mission critical complex systems.
Yeah. There's a lot of SaaS companies that are gonna have their businesses beat up.
Yep
Right, you know, associated with it. We're not one of them.
Yeah.
Right? You know, right. Because it's not like we have a bunch of SaaS revenue that's at risk, right? You know, we only have SaaS revenue, right, that is leveraging, right, that AI tailwind. Right. You know? Right? You know, I mean, we're gonna be the ones figuring out how to have this ecosystem do less of the traditional SaaS vendors and more of the agentic future. That's our role, and that's a powerful position where AI is an accelerant to what we do every day.
Right. At the end of the day, you're helping really helping shape the world in a better way, which is nice to have sort of that extra, you know, spin-off benefit of being who you are. What you've targeted.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah. Make money, do good.
Yeah. We wish you all the success in the world.
Thanks so much, Rich.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks, everybody.