All right, welcome everybody. I'm Meta Marshall. I cover the networking space here at Morgan Stanley. We're delighted to have Corning here today. Edward Schlesinger. No, I just butchered that, CFO, but, you know, I gave it my best shot. For important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley Research Disclosure website at Morgan Stanley slash research disclosures. If you have any questions, please reach out to your Morgan Stanley sales representative. And if you want to introduce yourself in a more appropriate fashion, that'd be great. But, Corning, so maybe let's just kick off. So Corning saw recessionary demand across most of your portfolio for much of 2023. You noted on the Q4 call that Q1 should mark a bottom. Just what are signposts you're watching for in the various segments for when demand could return?
So thanks, Meta. It's great to be here. Thanks for having Corning. Yeah, as you mentioned, we're definitely seeing a depressed demand across most of our markets. We've described it as the markets and our businesses being below their long-term trend lines. And, you know, the, the causality of that is a little bit different in each of the businesses, but, you know, some common, common things, and we're looking for those as the signposts for things to return. So for example, in our Optical Communications business, customers bought too much, so we're looking for them to digest that excess inventory as we kind of go through the year. We're expecting that to happen, you know, at some point, maybe the middle of 2024.
You know, again, sticking with optical, we're looking at the rate of deployments in the carrier space, where we constantly are in discussions with our customers. You know, if they deplete their inventory, that'll increase our sales, right? Well, even if they don't increase their deployments, but we're expecting deployments to increase through the year to some extent. And in the hyperscale space, we're looking at the increase in capacity for AI models. In display, panel maker utilization, you know, we look at the rate of utilization of panel makers, and that level was depressed in the fourth quarter. In the first quarter, we're expecting that to increase. That'll be a signpost for us. And, you know, so those are the sorts of things that we watch.
You know, and again, we're expecting all of our markets to return back to those trend lines over time.
Okay. Understanding we're earlier in the year, and, you know, you just kind of described a little bit of the segments, but just kind of contextualizing, where should we expect, demand to return earlier versus later? And just what are some of those signposts that you're looking at?
So I think display is a good place to start. Panel makers took utilization down in the fourth quarter. Retail demand was a little weaker. They are running that utilization lower in the first quarter. You have Lunar New Year, which always impacts the first quarter to some extent. So if we think about where they're running today, they could not meet demand for the year, so we have to see them increase utilization as we exit the first quarter. I think that's a place where probably earlier in the year, we'll see, you know, some sort of recovery. The magnitude of that is always hard to tell, but certainly, you know, higher than first quarter levels. I think Life Sciences is a place where inventory is depleting in North America and Europe. So again, starting to see some signs there.
Hyperscale is a place where we're starting to see our orders increase a little bit. So those are places that might come back a little earlier. In the carrier space and optical, I, I think that's probably more of a second half, impact than in the first half.
Okay, perfect. Given the weak demand, you guys have taken a number of kind of initiatives on the cost structure, but just what kind of improvements could we see to margins as demand recovers, and if you want to outline some of those initiatives that you've taken?
Yeah, thanks. So, you know, during 2023, it was really important for us to improve profitability and cash flow. We had entered the year at a lower point, you know, some of the drags from the pandemic-related supply chain impacts. So we did a lot of things. We increased price through the year. We improved productivity. We describe that as sort of our pro-productivity ratios or metrics. We got that back to historical levels. As we exited the year, our gross margin was about 300 basis points higher than when we started the year, uh, in 2023, and of course, that impacts our cash flow as well. We regulated operating expense and capital expense, and all of that contributed to nice cash flow improvements, as well as we went through the year.
And so our goal is to sustain that level of performance, and as volume begins to come back, that should be accretive to our margins. We have a leverage point on the gross margin level and a leverage point on the operating margin level because we expect to be able to operate with the level of cost we have today as we start to see our sales come back.
Okay. That's helpful. With the pullback in fiber demand over the past year, you know, you've given some helpful exhibits just how far off we are from the trend line. Nearly 30%, so in the second half of 2023. You know, when you talk to service provider customers, does this echo with what they think of the long-term trajectory of demand is, past the inventory digestion? And, you know, just you mentioned maybe we start to see a resumption in the second half, but just kind of what are your conversations there on to what the trend line of demand will be?
... Yeah, I would say nothing makes us feel like the trend line won't continue on in the optical space relative to historical performance. Sort of all the underlying drivers of growth, you know, the build-out of broadband, you know, for example, the rural broadband build-out in the United States, the continued need for cloud computing, AI, all of those things will continue to drive the need for optical connectivity and optical networks. So we think the trend line itself makes sense. And when we talk to our customers, and we look at the levels they're deploying at, the levels we expect them to deploy at, going forward, we also think that, you know, that generally makes sense. And if you think about history, there are things that go above that trend line and things that are below that trend line, right?
And that averages out to sort of that historical level. So I would expect some things, some drivers, like for example, the Hyperscale AI build-out, to go above that trend line, but on average, for us to continue to get back there. And as we've stated, you know, we are about 30% below that trend line, which actually is about a 40% increase from our current level of sales when we get back to that trend line.
Okay. And, you know, is your thinking around the second half of the year for when service provider demand could return, you know, how much of that is influenced by BEAD funds and when you think that BEAD will impact demand versus just inventory digestion and where we are there?
Yeah, I think for 2024, it's about inventory digestion-
Okay
... in the carrier space. As that, you know, comes to a conclusion, that will increase sales for Corning-
... for, you know, for customers to start buying again to meet their current deployment level. You know, BEAD probably starts to impact us late in the year, certainly more of a 2025 impact than 2024. I think, as you know, states have to meet certain criteria to be able to apply, and then they have to get approved, and then the funds have to start flowing, and they have to design out their network and select their providers and all of that kind of stuff. And that just takes time before it will you know, we'll see it in our order books.
Okay. And I know you've contextualized it in the past, but just to restate kind of what you think that that impact of BEAD could be, just to kind of overall fiber demand?
You know, I think if it actually gets up and running when it's fully ramped up, it could be one of those things that goes above the trend line.
Okay.
I mean, that's a good way to think about it. But, you know, we'll be cautious or cautiously optimistic-
... about how it impacts us, and I think for sure, as the year progresses, we'll know more about who wins what.
Okay
... aspect of that and how it impacts us.
Okay, perfect. Moving on to display, in your 2024 outlook, you mentioned expectations for the panel maker utilization declines in Q1. Some recent commentary from the industry has suggested the panel makers might not see as big of a decline in Q1 as you originally thought. You know, you've mentioned display might come back a little bit sooner. Just how are you reading some of the early signs on panel maker utilization in terms of what it could mean for your demand?
Yeah, I would say for us, it's playing out more or less like we thought.
Okay
... when we did our earnings call back at the end of January. Nothing really materially different from that. Q1 levels, certainly well below where they need to be, and our expectation, you know, is that that increases as we go through the year.
Okay. Got it. You know, you've been able to pass through some significant price increases through the display business recently, in part, just given, continued yen weakening. Can you just explain what you're trying to solve for and why it's had more of a margin impact versus a revenue impact?
Yeah. The most important thing for us is to generate a return in this business that's sufficient for the invested capital we have, so the return on invested capital in the business to sort of meet a threshold. That's our main objective. So we've been doing that by protecting ourselves against the yen, by having the lowest cost, by being the technology leader, and most recently in 2023, by raising price. And so as I think about going forward, you know, our goal will be to kinda maintain that level of profitability. A way to think about it would be to take our net income as a percentage of sales, and, you know, if that's in the greater than 25% range, you know, 25%-30% range, that's a good place for us to be.
You know, if you think about that kind of on an annualized basis, I mean, volume always, you know, in any given quarter, could have an impact on how that plays out. That's our main objective. You know, when we think about that going forward, you know, obviously, price will be an important component of that, you know, given where the yen's at.
Okay. But just in terms of kind of why we don't see it in revenue, but we do see it on margins, just think it's a mind bender sometimes for investors.
Yeah, I think, you know, we have many mechanisms to raise price-
Okay
... if you will. Some of those impact the revenue line, and some of those don't.
So we use all of those tools, and I think that's why you're not necessarily seeing the same impact on the revenue line as you might see, you know, on the profitability line.
Okay. And then, you know, a secondary question we get is just, have you seen any impact to share as a result of these price increases?
Yeah, I mean, we remain the market leader in this space, and, you know, we certainly would potentially be willing to trade share for the right level of profitability, but so far, so good. So not really-
Okay
... much impact.
... Okay. You know, the majority of your yen hedges roll off at the end of the year, and you noted that further price increases are a way to kind of protect this, you know, net income ratio that you were speaking about. Just how are you judging the ability to push price with the panel makers versus kind of share position in that space?
Yeah, a couple of thoughts. I mean, maybe just starting with the yen. Obviously, the yen is in a place where we don't think it makes sense to be a long-term, you know, hedger at this level. But as a reminder, you know, we have the ability to take advantage of the forward curve. The yen, if you go out a year, is about seven yen more favorable than where the spot rate is, and then, you know, it kind of, it's not linear, but sort of roughly seven yen a year-
Okay
as you go out. So, you know, we can go out multiple years and average the rate down to a lower place than where the spot rate is, and we'll take advantage of that. We've been hedging the yen for well over a decade and have a lot of experience there. And we expect to continue to do that, so that will be a component of how we protect our profitability in this business. And, you know, we raised price significantly in 2023, and, you know, some combination of-
-using the forward curve of the yen and raising price again will help us protect our profitability as we go through 2024.
I got it. I think there was some helpful contextualization that you guys had, maybe on the last earnings call or call before, just about the impact of, you know, if you raise the price of glass, what an impact that actually has to overall TV price. Can you just restate that?
Yeah. It's not a significant component of-
... you know, in terms of cost of, you know, an average TV. So, you know, you could think about it as in like a 10% or, you know, some impact of the cost of a TV, less than 10%-
Yeah
... sorry.
Okay.
Of the cost of a TV. So yes, for sure, you know, that has an impact in the supply chain, but it's not as significant as you might think.
Okay, perfect. You know, there's been some commentary of late about certain panel makers exiting the LCD business, most notably LG Display. Just are any of these moves concerning to you from a customer or share position? And, you know, how you think about the long-term demand for display?
Yeah, I think for us, that's not really new news. You know, most of the panel making is actually in China today. We're well positioned with the current panel makers. We've got three out of four of the Gen 10.5 facilities that exist, and, you know, we think the combination of our market position and relationship-
... with our customers really won't have an impact. You know, so we don't see that dynamic, the sort of customer dynamic, changing relative to how we've thought about it.
Okay. Has there been any change in how you guys see or participate in the OLED market for TVs?
Yeah, I would say also, no. OLED remains a relatively low percentage of the market for large size displays. It's, you know, a larger percentage of the market for small size-
... displays. We participate in that market today and have done exceptionally well. And, you know, we'll continue to, you know, look at technology advances in the display market. And, you know, as OLED progresses, we certainly will participate in that, but we don't see it as having a meaningful impact in the near term at all.
Okay. But you're not seeing... You know, obviously, in the past, there's been concerns about that would bring less overall glass content. I think you guys have tended to see the same glass content even as you've moved into OLED, but-
Yeah. I would say, you know, depending on how the technology plays out, it could be a favorable thing for us.
It could be neutral. So I don't see it as having a meaningful impact, certainly not in the near to midterm.
Okay. And then, you know, you've long called out kind of Corning's 100-dollar-a-car TAM opportunity, and, you know, you also noted having won around $1 billion in multi-year auto glass orders. Just how should investors think about the opportunity in auto glass and, you know, just any near-term impact from these wins?
Yeah, I mean, I think the way to think about the auto market for us is there are trends in the market that are very favorable for both our filters, ceramics filters, environmental business, as well as the glass business. So if I start with sort of the filter side, clean emissions is a huge move, whether it's EV or filtration. So we've seen a move for ICE vehicles in Europe and in China to add a gas particulate filter. We're gonna see that in the U.S. in the 2026 timeframe, so that's really favorable. That takes us from, you know, roughly $15 a car opportunity to more like a $45 a car opportunity. It's like a 3- or 4-to-1, you know, relative to not having a GPF on an automobile.
As a reminder, a hybrid actually uses those filters as well. So a section of the EV market is a plug-in hybrid or hybrid vehicles, and that's actually, you know, still very favorable for our environmental business. And then the other two trends that are helping us on the glass side are connectivity of the car or how the consumer interacts with the vehicle, and that's, you know, adding a number of displays or a large size displays into the vehicle, and we've had a number of wins there on the glass side, on the interior side. And then as well as autonomy, which requires sensors or cameras or other technology, where specialized glass is really important, even if you think about your windshield acting like a camera lens.
... so to speak. So it just creates opportunity on the exterior glass side as well as covers for lenses or other things, and we're starting to see that as well, and starting to have some wins there. So I think, you know, that the interior side is probably a $30-$40 opportunity. The exterior is $30-$40 opportunity, and then, you know, the filters are, you know, $30-$40 opportunity, and that's how you get to that $100. And we actually have cars on the road today that have more than $100 of our content in them, both on the EV side and on the ICE side.
Okay. Just in terms of the $1 billion of glass orders that you had announced, just in terms of how to think about the timing of some of that.
Yeah, we're starting to see, you know, sales ramp. It's definitely takes a while as the model years play out. You know, we're the business is becoming a meaningful part of-
... Corning's sales. And, you know, I think as it gets bigger and bigger, we'll share a little bit more and more about how we see that playing out in the near future. At this point, as a reminder, we include that business in our Hemlock and Emerging Growth business segment, and it's not part of our environmental business.
Okay.
The Automotive Glass business.
Yeah, got it. Yeah, you just noted kind of some of the differences between ICE and EV vehicles and even kind of the opportunities that exist with hybrid. You know, we've seen, it's been commented on at this conference in multiple sessions about the drop-off in EV demand. You know, are there just any near-term impacts to be mindful of, of just as these kind of switches we're seeing between EVs and ICE in the near term?
Yeah. I would say probably not a meaningful impact for us in the near term. Obviously, the number of cars being produced-
... is important, whether they're ICE or EV, so I think that, that is important. I think those trends I mentioned, as long as they remain the sort of industry trends, that actually is very favorable for us, regardless of, you know, what, what, vehicle type is, is being manufactured. And, you know, I think EV will continue to grow, maybe not at the pace that people thought, a couple of years ago or, or the pace we've seen over the last-
Yeah
... several years. So that certainly is, you know, favorable for us on the environmental side.
Okay. Just in the... You just mentioned kind of the emissions standards that should go into place in 2026, I think you said, for the U.S. I know in the past you've kind of noted, whoever is in charge in Washington can kind of impact those. You know, is that 2026 date firm, or do we need to kind of be mindful of what administration is in charge?
I mean, I guess we probably always-
Yeah
... need to be mindful of that.
Yeah.
but, you know, to the best of my knowledge, I think we have-
Okay
... relatively high confidence that, some form of regulation will come into play in the next several years, which is favorable for our-
Okay
... for our business. Yeah.
All right. Perfect. Maybe turning to Specialty Materials, you know, this has continued to outgrow smartphone market in general, or, you know, continuation of your guys' themes, where you don't need growth in your end markets, to see growth. Does continued innovation in Gorilla Glass help continue the trajectory of this business? Or, you know, do we need to see opportunities like foldable phones, AR/VR headsets, become a meaningful portion of the market to get kind of additional growth?
Yeah, I think this is a great example for us of what we call more Corning, where, you know, the devices, the number of devices, has actually declined significantly. If you go back to 2016, the number of units of smartphones is down about 20%. Our Gorilla sales are up about 40%. So I think we will continue to innovate and add content in the cover glass space. Could be Gorilla Glass, could be other, you know, glass composition, ceramics, et cetera. And I think that will help us to continue to grow on the glass side in the Specialty Materials segment. You know, foldable, bendable, foldable, to the extent that becomes a standard in the industry, that's also very favorable and certainly would add revenue dollars for us. You know, AR is certainly also an opportunity.
I think those things would be compounders-
... and allow us to grow at a faster rate, to the extent that the adoption level was high. But, you know, I think that remains to be seen, right?
You know, how big does foldable become? How big does AR-
Okay
... you know, become over what time period? And then maybe the only other point I would add is that in this segment, we have a business which we call Advanced Optics, which makes specialty glass for other industries. For example, the semiconductor industry, we're actually seeing nice growth there. We make glass that goes into the equipment that makes semiconductors. So as the semiconductor supply chain continues to grow, that's an opportunity for us to grow in this segment as well.
Okay, perfect. You know, rounding out those segments, you know, we haven't talked a lot about the Hemlock business. This has been kind of a meaningful driver over the past couple of years, maybe a little bit of a pullback of late.
Can you just kind of give what you're seeing in terms of the Hemlock business and how you're kind of thinking about that business?
Yeah. So, you know, as a reminder, Hemlock makes polysilicon for both the semiconductor industry as well as for the solar space. We're one of only a few companies that have the ability to make semiconductor-grade polysilicon. We're continuing to see nice growth there. We have really long-term take-or-pay contracts in that space. It's a nice business, generates a nice amount of income and cash flow.
... and we expect that to continue to grow with the industry. And then in the solar space, you know, we were not in that space, actually. If you go back to, like, 2019, 2020, we took advantage of the opportunity to, you know, produce what we would call clean polysilicon and re-enter that market. We've seen a nice increase, and, you know, we've actually built a relatively sizable solar-
- polysilicon business, and we see that as an opportunity, you know, to continue to grow that into the future, especially as the U.S. looks to build out a solar supply chain, a domestic solar supply chain. So we look to participate in that.
Okay. And then rounding out on life sciences, you noted that some of that inventory digestion is kind of coming to an end, but, you know, it was obviously a big business during COVID and ramping for the pandemic. Just how are you guys thinking about some of the opportunities in life sciences?
Yeah, I think, you know, so obviously during COVID, the industry shifted significantly to COVID-related testing and treatments. You know, we're seeing the shift back to sort of, you know, research and other things in this space. There's definitely a lot of labware, consumables-
Right
... inventory that built up. We've seen that begin to deplete in North America and in Europe, not quite yet in Asia or specifically in China, where COVID testing went much longer-
... and they built up a much, you know, larger, you know, inventory. So, you know, I think we should start to see this business return to growth. We also, you know, and as I mentioned earlier, there are certainly some subsegments of various different industries that should grow faster than the average. I think of this as like a low to mid-single-digit industry growth rate. But there are some, you know, bioprocess, you know, gene therapy, things like that, that might grow faster. So there are some opportunities in there for us as we go forward. And I think, you know, with respect to the supply chain, you know, we'll see that sort of normalize over time. Like, it's not an abrupt-
... you know, normalization.
Okay. Okay, given the current demand conditions, you've noted that Corning has the capacity to drive about $3 billion in incremental sales with kind of minimal investment. Just how would you categorize CapEx investment needs over the next couple of years, and how does this broaden or impact your broader capital allocation strategy?
Yeah, appreciate this question. You know, we think this is probably the most important point, even though it is, I think, relatively straightforward for us. You know, we clearly have depressed demand, and we have the capacity to supply significantly more than we're currently supplying, and we preserve that because we think that's a great opportunity without us having to add capital, which is typically not how we would grow. We're typically, you know, adding capital when we need to grow. So we can support more than $3 billion of sales relative to our current level, without really adding capital or even fixed costs, so that the impact of a lot of that is already in our financials. You've got the depreciation, for example-
... on the assets we have in place, and so we think that's a great opportunity. And when we did our call in January, we talked about, you know, our CapEx for 2024 being less than-
... what we did in 2023, and we ramped that down as we kind of exited the year. Our maintenance capital is $1 billion-$1.001 billion, you know, depends on sort of what we have-
Yeah
... to get done at any point in time. So yeah, we might be slightly above that level, but I don't see us needing to spend more capital to support that incremental sales, certainly in the 2024 timeframe.
Okay. When we were talking about the display business and kind of the impact of the price increases, you talked about kind of trying to manage to a net income, kind of to, to sales level. I think in the past, Corning investors have kind of thought about a gross margin benchmark as, you know, how they're measuring, kind of how you get to those. That has changed over time as to whether there's a gross margin benchmark or kind of a net income benchmark. What do you think of as to, like, how you're managing to the business? Is it to a net income threshold that we should be thinking of now or gross margins, so?
Yeah, I think you can certainly still continue to use gross margin. It's a good gauge. You know, we exited the year at around 37%, and if you think about us having raised price over time, cost goes up, price goes up-
... your gross margin percent actually goes down. So that has an impact, kind of a drag on your percentage. I think we'll accrete up from the 37% as we add back volume. But what I think I'd like to highlight, and for me personally, this is an important thing, is that we've regulated our operating expenses, and we would say there's a leverage point there as we grow back, right? So the thing about using net income-
Yeah
... let's say, versus gross margin, is you capture that OpEx leverage. So it is certainly a, another way for investors to think about it. We haven't necessarily given you a benchmark for the total company. We've done it for display-
Yeah
... 'cause we don't share the gross margin, you know, level for each of our businesses externally, so it's just a good proxy for that. But I think investors can still continue to look at gross margin, and I think we should expect to see our operating margin percentage accrete up-
Okay
... which, you know, gives us multiple leverage points.
Okay. Another investor question we get sometimes is, you know, you've clearly talked about the $3 billion worth of capacity that you already have. I think there were kind of plans for other facilities that are on hold, whether that be the Arizona fiber facility. I think there have been talks of additional kind of glass facilities in the past. Just are there anything that we should be mindful of as we get to, you know, multiple years out when demand comes back, that could be kind of areas of increased capital investment?
Yeah, I mean, I think maybe the way to think about it is to support this incremental sales, this greater than $3 billion, we don't really need additional capacity.
If there are other things that are not included in that-
Yeah
- we may need capacity, and certainly, we'll share that with investors. But the way we think about it is, we always want to de-risk-
that investment. We do that, you know, through setting a return on invested capital target of greater than 20%. We look for, like, take or pay or long-term contracts. To do that, we like to use other people's money.
Yeah.
People sometimes will give us deposits, or we'll get, you know, incentives from various different jurisdictions. We'll continue to use those tools to ensure that we get a good return to the extent we need to invest capital.
Okay. And I didn't put this on the original list of questions, but just given AI as kind of the thematic theme here, and that you have seen a little bit of a pickup, in kind of what you're seeing from hyperscalers, is there a way you can kind of contextualize for the audience, just in terms of either density that you see with AI data centers, or just how you guys view the kind of AI opportunity within Corning?
Yeah. I mean, we view it as a significant opportunity. I think it's probably early to determine sort of the relative size of the opportunity, you know, relative to either the overall optical business or our enterprise or Hyperscale business. But certainly, you know, if people do what they say they're gonna do or potentially gonna do, I mean, you have an opportunity to potentially double the capacity in that area over time. So it's a significant opportunity. Now, that said, I, I will be cautious, and -
Yeah
... you know, I would caution everybody that people don't always do what they say they're gonna do, or it just may take time.
Right
for that to happen.
Okay. And are there any ways in which Corning is using AI internally, you know, as you're looking for OpEx leverage, or, still early days on that?
I think early days for us.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right. Any questions from the audience? There's a question back here. One second. No problem.
Hi, thanks. I had a question. You mentioned earlier in the beginning about some ways for you to increase price wouldn't show up in revenue. Could you give me an example of one of those ways?
Sure.
Thanks.
You could give someone free product.
Okay. All right. Everybody's gonna mind bend to think of that.
Yeah.
All right, we have another question.
I have a question about your sourcing of, like, high-grade silicon. Where does the majority of that quality of silicon come from for you? Is it from China, or where do you-
I'm sorry, I missed the beginning of your question. Can you say that again?
Where do you source your high-grade silicon? Does the majority of it come from China or Japan, or where do you multi-source?
I do not think we provide that information externally. So I'm not going to-
Okay.
I don't know that we've ever provided that externally, so I'm not gonna answer that. I'm sorry.
All right.
What's your return on invested capital goal for the business? And help us understand how you get there. And to the extent that you've provided this, what do those ROIC numbers look like across the different segments? Thank you.
So our goal is to be in the low teens, low to mid-teens for the total company. We have not provided it, for each of our businesses. But, you know, in some cases, we have higher, fixed costs in some of our businesses, so obviously, those would be on the lower end. You know, the lower fixed cost businesses would be on the higher end.
Okay. Then maybe this is the last question. You know, you've been very successful in kind of driving more Corning content across the end markets, but what areas of the portfolio do you see as, you know, most likely to be an area where you would potentially look at M&A or, like, look at inorganic opportunities?
Yeah, I mean, our primary focus for capital allocation is to grow organically. And then, you know, to the extent we're successful, we want to return cash to shareholders. That's the capital allocation model we run. We're certainly opportunistic in the M&A space. I think in the optical space or in the life sciences space would be two places where we would look to do M&A, to the extent, you know, opportunities presented themselves. But again, I think of that as being more opportunistic-
Mm-hmm
... than a primary objective of our capital allocation approach.
All right. Well, perfect. Ed, thanks so much for being here today. It's been a great discussion.
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me.