... Good morning, everybody, and thanks for continuing to join us. So our next fireside chat's going to be with the management team from Hyatt Hotels. To my right, President and CEO, Mark Hoplamazian. Mark, thank you for joining us.
Thank you.
To Mark's right, Joan Bottarini, Chief Financial Officer. So, Joan, welcome. Thanks for joining us this morning.
Thank you for inviting us.
So, yeah, where should we start? Like-
In your hands, my friend.
All right. Anything needs to be said, or just need to make sure we have these on-
Obligatory-
on the screen
... disclaimer about forward-looking statements, everyone. You've seen these. Please read it in full before we begin.
Yeah.
Just kidding.
There will be a quiz, on line seven. Okay, so I guess where we'll start is: Do you have any hotels in Antarctica?
No, actually, we don't. I was fascinated that,
I was fascinated by that, too.
... that Marriott's opening one in, I don't know where in Antarctica. I think the supply chain is pretty tough there.
It is.
Yeah.
The cost is going to be a little, little elevated. So,
I told him I can't wait to see him on Drive to Survive, though.
Yeah. Now, is Hyatt an F1 sponsor in any way?
Not at this time.
Not until we get the Grand Prix Chicago, and then we're in.
No, I don't think it's Chicago-dependent. We actually operate in 23 of the 24 places where F1 races occur.
Really?
Yeah.
One of the hardest ones, but one I definitely remember for Hyatt is Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan, yeah
... where you've had, like-
We've had a long presence.
... hotels that, like, have a legacy going back for a long-
Long time.
They're owned and operated hotels.
Right.
I do remember vividly having to ask, "Okay, where is this?" You know, until Drive to Survive. And then-
Then you knew Azerbaijan was-
Then we all know. All right, so let's just start with the macro.
Yeah.
You know, easy, big picture, but help us think through a little bit of, you know, we're coming out of the summer lull. You know, second quarter, things were, you know, on the travel demand side, had softened a bit after, you know, kind of Liberation Day. Kinda how are we feeling as we start to move to the back half of the year here? You know, just give us your kind of 30,000-ft- level view.
Yeah, I'll do thirty. I think Joan has a few data points that would be really interesting to talk about. But we described on our last earnings call that we had a very constructive outlook for the rest of the year, even though you know the total growth is going to be relatively modest, but it's where we stand right now is consistent with what we said before. And the shift that we saw in July is that after that Liberation Day malaise corporates in our world means larger corporations were back on the road with clarity and with conviction, both group and business transient. Second, leisure continues to hold up really well into the you know as we look forward into the remainder of the year.
We had said that we have every expectation that business transient will come back beginning in September, and you know, two days into it is too early for me to declare that anything that's meaningful. But group has held up. Group into next year is very strong, but I think overall, we feel really good about travel demand, not wallowing in that second quarter malaise, but actually feeling a little bit more directional.
What I would add to just what you said, Mark, is that, you know, we're really looking at the windows that we're seeing across all the segments, right? And business transient is the shortest window that we're seeing today. It's shorter than it was last year, and so as we look at pace, it may be a little distorted because it's a little bit lower, and then we see the pickup. So, you know, it's just that. That's the dynamic we're facing with business transient, but as Mark said, it's still looking healthy since our earnings call, and we anticipate that into the last months of the year.
Then, as far as leisure, where there is some greater visibility, we look out into Festive, and we're seeing in our resorts in the Americas mid- to high-single-digit pickup in pace, so relative to last year. So still healthy, you know, high-end leisure in the Americas. So, you know, that's continuing to be solid and what we anticipated, frankly, on our second quarter earnings call. For group, which, you know, has the longest booking windows, we see the fourth quarter. We mentioned that it was positive, low-single-digits in the fourth quarter, and next year is mid- to high-single-digits. So, you know, group, we're seeing still healthy bookings, and that gives us a good foundation looking into 2026.
Just to add one data point, which is our all-inclusive business in the Americas is up 9% for Festive, so really, really strong.
A few different things I want to unpack here. Let's start with leisure. One of the big patterns we've been seeing all year, and really, you know, probably going back into last year as well, is the bifurcation between high and low end. Now, your positioning here definitely has skew to it, you know.
Yes
... largely to that higher end. But, you know, help us see what you're seeing a little bit as you break that down, and is there any stabilization that we're able to call out or, you know, say that we're seeing in that kind of, that low-end customer? Because this gap has been wider, you know, as empirically we look at as analysts, feel like a bit wider and for a bit longer than we've seen in prior cycles or mid-cycle slowdowns, if we were to call it that.
Yeah, we are definitely, as we look, I'll just give U.S. numbers. We ended up, you know, positive in the second quarter. We saw the high-end business being, luxury business being, you know, up in the mid-single digits, and then our upscale business being slightly below, you know, a 1% decline. So the gap has been big and has been wide, and, you know, it's a reflection of discretionary income at those traveler dynamics, demographics. So still spending money on travel, and we're still seeing healthy luxury performance in those hotels. So the gap has been wide, and you know, we expect that to continue into the coming months of the year.
... You know, Mark, I know you're a big student of the industry. Just macro-wise, when these types of patterns go on, we always have this habit of asking: Is it, you know, is it different this time? What kinda, what do you see or kind of what are you seeing that's interesting out there about either reasons that this pattern should converge, and we're just on the cusp of that, or we, maybe we haven't seen it yet? Or, you know, could there be something a little different in the patterns that, that we're seeing out there? Just kinda what's your, what's your gut feel tell you about, like, what's happening, and, and again, any interesting, you know, research or, or academic views you might have?
Yeah, I think, two separate topics apropos of what Joan was just talking about with respect to the dispersion. I think there's the consistent question we keep getting is, with respect to leisure or luxury, how long can rates hold up? And the answer is for a long time to come because the compounded growth rate of rates for luxury has not really far exceeded inflation. It's above inflation, but not much, from if you measure from pre-pandemic times. So, when we look into the future, and we're looking at festive, a big chunk of those increases in bookings is rate. And so, and concurrently, two things are happening. Supply is very limited in luxury, and resorts are hard to build.
We don't have a new supply growth problem in all-inclusive, by the way. So that goes to what our outlook for net rooms growth looks like into the future. And secondly, you've got a larger community of people who have a lot more discretionary income. Now, it also means that the wealth gap in the United States is increasing. That's not great from a societal perspective, but from a travel perspective, something like 75% of total travel spend is in the top two quintiles of the-
Okay
... of the household income, so we're playing where the money is, basically, and we see that sustainable. Second, with respect to mid-scale and upscale, that's a much bigger market, and I think it's highly dependent on, I would say, a sense of confidence in the corporate world, and I think the confidence in the corporate world has been sufficiently shaken, that that has a knock-on effect or a reverb impact on the travelers there, who don't have a big investment income, who don't have a big portfolio, who are dependent on their jobs and their income to actually support their travel, so discretionary spending has changed. I don't think that's permanent. I think that's circumstantial, and when economic cycles change, you'll see that revert to a mean.
You know, Joan, you allude to all-inclusive, and obviously, the strong trends you're seeing there. Just remind us, because there's sort of, as I think about Hyatt's portfolio, and definitely correct this, if I'm off the mark, kinda think of two groups. I think of the, you know, the broader distribution segment that sort of you are powering through ALG broadly, and then I think of the resorts that you manage, which tend to, I think, skew decently higher. So help us kinda work through.
Are you seeing different trends between maybe those two subsegments, or is all-inclusive as a category, and we definitely see this through cruise demand, you know, when we look at broader industry stats, just the right place to be, the right value proposition for this customer, or when you nail that, then, you know, actually, the demand curve looks different?
Yeah. The proportion of our presence in Latin America and the Caribbean for all-inclusive is, I... the team here will correct me, but it's 70%-80% five-star. So, you know, that's our legacy, sort of ALG and Playa businesses, that where we operate there. So that's where when you see that 9% growth in pace, it's coming from that particular segmentation within all-inclusive. Now, our Bahia Principe resorts that we added to the portfolio, those are primarily four-star, which provides a benefit to us to be able to serve an expanding customer base that we're building in the U.S. with our entry into mid-scale. So I think over time, this will continue to deliver, you know, sort of that network effect for Hyatt. But those resorts are high-performing.
A lot of the traveler base going into that brand is coming from Europe and Canada and growing awareness from the U.S. So it's we've got a mix now. Now, our comparable numbers don't include Bahia Principe because the joint venture was closed in December of last year. But you know, those results are just slightly lower than what we're seeing in the five-star. So definitely a bifurcation, and of course, our ALG Vacations distribution business is serving across the customer base. So what I commented on, on our earnings call was the fact that we are seeing in the distribution business very strong results in the five-star in those markets, which serve our you know, many of our managed all-inclusive properties.
But, you know, a bit of a pullback in demand at that four-star level.
You know, you're probably uniquely situated to see this. I'm not sure if your teams have cut this for you, but just, you know, what are you hearing or seeing about Canadian travel and some of the fallout from international inbound? One of the clear beneficiaries we saw in some, you know, anecdotal data points, and this is a little dated now, looking back a couple of months, but, you know, certainly at that kind of first moment with some of the geopolitical tension, we saw what I call a Canada flyover effect, but all of a sudden, Dominican Republic spikes and, you know, some of the Caribbean destinations spike because they're the place. You know, people still want to go on vacation. You still want to be in the sun in probably the middle of the Canadian winter.
So, you know, have you seen that across some of the dynamics you're seeing, and is it continuing even now, or is some of that, you know, some of that immediate, you know, let's call it fallout, changed?
... We saw it, Mexico, Caribbean, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and Bahamas as well. Significant increase in Canadian occupancy versus American in terms of the total pie chart of demand, and concurrently, a significant decline in Canadians in our U.S. resorts. So we absolutely saw it, and it persists.
It persists. Okay. So let's move over to the development side of the equation. Obviously, this is probably the biggest single question I get from the investor base and in the hotel universe. And, you know, the high-level question at its finest point is, you know, we're at 1% or below U.S. supply growth. How do we continue to put up, you know, mid-single-digit growth on the net unit growth side, if that's, you know, if that's a number you're still comfortable with, right? So help us think through this, you know, the kind of broad math equation, Mark, at the highest level. You know, Hyatt's got a unique advantage in terms of base, right? So the percentage base number you need to achieve, that's a little bit different than some of the bigger-
Yep.
the bigger footprint. But let me, let's do it in your words a little bit. What do you need to achieve, and how are you able to continue to put this on the scoreboard for the next several years, not just for, you know, the next 12 months?
Yeah, so first of all, the supply dynamics that you mentioned, the data is absolutely correct, and starts, construction starts are weaker. You know, you can just read Lodging Econometrics or whatever source you like, and that's just a fact. The fact, the other fact is that a majority of our pipeline's outside the U.S., and we don't see supply growth or construction lagging in any market outside the U.S., including our all-inclusive resorts. We've had some variability in China in terms of projects that had started to get back into construction, and then new starts that had started to come down and then come back again, and I think that's just riding the wave of Chinese policy and what's going on in relation to capital formation on the debt side of the equation.
But I think that that's gonna stabilize, and we'll see a more consistent basis. But it's also true that some of our growth in China is conversions. These are adaptive reuse for UrCove by Hyatt from an office building into hotel, and so it's not really dependent on putting a shovel in the ground. So I would say a majority of our pipeline and our outlook for growth is based on international and all-inclusive, another chunk of it is conversions. So actually, U.S.-based construction starts is not a majority; it's a minority of where we're seeing sources for new growth.
Having said that, our new brand launches, some of which are conversion brands, so Hyatt Select and high- and Unscripted, specifically in the upscale category, and Hyatt Studios, which has now got a number of multi-unit, multi-property developers who are putting shovels in the ground. I expect to see that start to increase over time. So that will be additive to a baseline that absolutely keeps us in that mid-single digit, 6%-7% range for, you know, our foreseeable outlook.
And, you know, organic growth or net rooms growth on the all-inclusive side was a big, you know, this kind of pipeline opportunity was, I know, a big feature of kind of how ALG worked for you originally and, and a big, you know, reason for that deal. So what do we see there today? You know, especially if you kind of were to put in at different price points, maybe, you know, the fundamentals have leveled off, but are they whether it's the cash- on- cash returns, it's harder for us, you know, sitting on the outside, to underwrite. And I think this is a place where investors fall through a little bit. It's harder, much harder to underwrite international ROIs than it is to kind of, you know, think about U.S. domestic, you know, kind of four-wall economics.
So do these projects make sense right now, and are we seeing that development climate, you know, remain? Because over years, the rate growth in those markets was phenomenal, if we look over, you know, I think three and five years, right? So-
Yep.
Are the absolute returns in a place that we're still attracting capital to build in those markets?
The answer is yes. The economics are still very compelling. The stability of the returns is very high, and I think that's the perception issue that drives lower multiples applied to the property values. So our sale of the Playa real estate was in the eights in terms of multiple, so very high yielding. I think, you know, the investors to whom we sold it will realize great returns. They're getting paid for a perceived volatility that is in some ways offset by the model itself. But that's the prevailing rate at which the all-inclusive model is more stable and more predictable over time, so you can manage costs better, so you end up yielding higher margins. That's what I meant by that.
Yeah.
So what I see is a market that's absolutely in the. It already happened in Europe, where you have institutional capital coming in in size, Blackstone being a major player, and in the U.S. market, the very beginning of institutionalizing ownership. Yes, we will still have Mexican families and Spanish families and Dominican families that are the core owners, but we're starting to see, and we will see more interest from institutional capital, private equity to begin with, and then we'll see. I think there'll be more and more institutional capital that comes into the market, so there's more liquidity for owners who want to release capital to go and build additional hotels.
The only issue that has caused some level of headwind has been the weakening of the U.S. dollar relative to the Mexican peso, because all revenues are in dollars, and all expenses are in pesos. So we've seen that impact. We saw it more acutely in 2023, where the pace of-
Big cost headwind, right?
Exactly, and this year it's been generally better than last year, but the dollar is not holding up, so I think that's something that we're both well aware of, and I'll also have new tools in our toolkit to manage that relative to what we went through in 2023 with respect to cost management, so I think that it's still compelling. I know it is because we're seeing a lot of new opportunities, both new builds and portfolios that we are pursuing at the moment.
I think it's interesting, you know, sort of the feature set and the movement of institutional capital into this, because if there was one single point of contention or concern for Hyatt going back, especially when we hit, you know, a bit of the speed bump around Liberation Day, it was, "Oh my gosh, can we sell $2 billion of real estate?" Right? I can't imagine how many times poor Adam had to field that question over a two-month period. Mark, can you help us write the postscript on this a little bit in terms of, you know, were you ever nervous? What are these partners looking for? How, you know, how did this all come together?
You know, because ultimately, it's exactly what you said you would do, and to the dollar number of, I think, what we were all thinking in terms of, you know, $2 billion on the real estate side. But it felt so uncertain to such a large part of the investment community that, like, what were you seeing or more confident than we were at that moment in time? And then, yeah, like, what does that mean for future deals like this for Hyatt? Meaning the ability or desire to go, let's call it, capital heavy or upfront, and then find this.
Yeah
... this capital-light, elegant solution on the back end.
Look, I think, to reduce it to one comment, it's time frame. So in August of 2021 and November, when we closed the ALG acquisition, what happened between those two periods of time is Omicron, the Omicron strain came to an end, and Delta began. So when you think about a period of uncertainty, a lot of people sitting around saying: What is going on here? You can imagine that very few companies might step forward and say, "We're gonna actually make the biggest acquisition we've ever made," which has been transformative for the company. But this is in a long string of, I would say, maybe atypical moves that we've made since the founding of the company.
We were the first company to, you know, ever do a very large-scale atrium hotel that everyone in the industry thought was gonna fail, which turned out to be like de rigueur, the thing to do. We started in airport hotels at the beginning of the jet age, when everyone was in city centers. We went to Asia first, not Europe, when we expanded internationally. So you can go chapter and verse since 1957, and we've taken our own path, and our, my confidence was derived, really, in the Playa instance. My confidence in the ALG acquisition to begin with was superior economic model and form and format for resort. The only resort format that was growing in the most difficult areas for growth for resort construction because of hurricane coverage and whatever, namely Mexico and the Caribbean.
The clear evidence that we had with data, that high-end leisure, high-end resort, was the first category to come back after every single downturn. We were right, not because we're brilliant, but because we're students of what's happened before, and we have a long-term perspective. If we were a company trading on what was gonna happen in the fourth quarter of 2021, there's no chance we would have bought the company, but it's turned out to be a massive value creator for our shareholders. The same is true for Playa. I mean, we know this market extremely well. We are the biggest player by far. We know the players on the real estate side. We deeply understand what's going on on the demand side through ALG Vacations, and we deeply understand how money is made at the resort level.
So my confidence level was extremely high. Now, if you had said: Are you confident you can get it done in the third quarter of this year? I would have said no, but I'm 100% sure I can get it done in the next 12 months.
Interesting.
I had no doubt. I was never concerned about it. Not to mention the fact that because we're in the market and talking to all these players all the time, we already had a sense for who the buyer universe was gonna be. And so we had already had pretty clear visibility that there was great demand for that asset base, because that asset base is a premier asset base. They've got some of the best locations and at least the Hyatts, Zivas and Zilaras that were founded back in 2013, the highest quality hotels and the highest performing hotels, highest rated, highest customer service satisfaction scores, highest Tripadvisor ratings. So these are this was a premier portfolio. That's the other thing that was clear to us. Anyway, yeah, that's where the confidence came from.
And I would just say, you know, the buyers, who we ultimately signed with, recognized that the high-performing, you know, quality of those and location of those, that portfolio, linking it more directly into the Hyatt ecosystem. M eaning the distribution channels that we provide, which were not provided previously, just creates more incremental value. So there was, there's more value to be gained with that transaction because of integrating the platforms together more directly. So, you know, it became a no-brainer.... on both sides.
Jo, can you just elaborate a little bit? Because I think this is important. I mean, what are those strategic synergies or kind of those things that, you know, when you looked at it or when some people-- I'm a little bit uniquely advantaged. I actually covered Playa, so-
Oh.
You know, we saw some of these pieces come together, right? I think a big one is your, you know, distribution engine through ALG, which was not a pipe that they had.
Yeah.
One thing we knew Playa had always struggled with was, you know, direct bookings, right?
Right.
The wholesale channel is such an important way you source demand for this specific vacation type, but is that the one, what were some of the other, you know, features or functions that you looked at when you kind of did your underwriting, and you're like: "This is why this makes sense for Hyatt. This is why it makes sense for us to run these hotels?
We already had realized really, really strong penetration from World of Hyatt. We already knew that our guest base was, you know, highly attracted to this product and these properties in particular. When you plug into the vacation club, right, which we still manage and are still driving significant room nights to the all-inclusive resorts there, the Playa team, you know, they did not have that option, obviously, being just a franchise, and they did not participate in ALGV, which is, you know, the largest tour operator in the U.S. into these markets. They were performing as well as they were, even not tapping into that channel. You know, if you think about the need periods and compression and just creating more demand, this is just a huge opportunity for those assets.
So UVC was the additional big value driver in addition to the ALG Vacations plug-in.
So, Mark, this is interesting because this kind of brings me to where I wanted to go, which is, so you found a, you know, UVC, which was sort of a separate and unique business within, like, I think, the three pieces of ALG, right?
Yes.
It caused a few headaches for the investment community, largely because of something I'm sure Jo knows better than anybody, which is accounting, right, in terms of cash flow and this and that, just the timing of these functions. So, help us think through... and you found an elegant solution, an elegant home for that business, a way to kind of, you know, manage that within, within you know I think much, you know, within Hyatt's portfolio. Where does that leave us as it relates to distribution? Here's a business that is another unique business, you know, as relates, it's at scale. Again, you're going to add to that scale with Playa, but, you know, long- term, does this need to sit within Hyatt? Does it make sense?
Is it, you know, just so fundamental, the nature of what you're trying to drive there, or can you find, you know, another, like, sort of the right place for that business again, as you get more comfortable running and operating these hotels, you know, through the management agreements?
Look, I think, from the very beginning, we've been thoughtful about the potential to find other alternative solutions for how we retain the strategic benefit of ALG Vacations, Apple Vacations, because it is an important distribution channel to continue to have in the vertical integration of services that we offer. We never believed it was necessary to own 100% of it in order to be able to retain that. In the same way that UVC, we found a solution in which we continue to manage it for the benefit of the hotels, but we don't own 100% of it. The first rule is it has to be good for shareholders. Like, we have to do something that would be accretive to shareholders. The second rule is never, ever, ever forget the first rule.
So we're not going to do a stupid deal to try to contort ourselves to, you know, change the way in which it's, it shows up. The opportunities are very interesting because we are the biggest in North America. There are other opportunities. There are other travel platforms globally, which could create some interesting opportunities and benefits. So that's one possible avenue. A financial partner is another possible avenue, or, and a financial partner could come in many different forms and formats. So I would say we are very open to exploring these things, and we have.
We haven't come across one that was super compelling to us yet, but I have every confidence that we will continue to explore that, not just because we understand that it's from an accounting and composition perspective a distraction, but also because of the point that I made, that you made, which is, you know, you don't need to own 100% of it in order to get the strategic benefit out of it, as long as the thing that you do with it or the partner you bring in can add value to the platform, make it stronger. What we don't want to do is weaken the platform or diminish its impact, which does have strategic value within Hyatt. So that's really the long answer to your short question, but that's the direction.
Maybe let's kind of take the whole thing out now. I mean, all of this comes back to your journey to asset-light-
Yeah
... is something that was, you know, sort of the, the key theme of, you know, your Analyst Day, I think your corporate strategy over the last, you know, any number of years. And frankly, you know, you've been on this journey as long as I've been working with Hyatt. Practically, you know, fifteen years, which is pretty amazing. So, you know, give us kind of the update on that medium-term milestone. What does it take for us to get to, you know, can we get to 90%? What does it take us to get to the 90%, and what's our updated timeline with the real estate, with the Playa real estate sale behind us?
Well, I don't know if we've given numbers for. Yeah, 27 for 90% asset light, and that was, you know, that was disclosed as part of the real estate sale for Playa. Our expectations that we would, as Mark said, we would absolutely get it done in the next couple of years, and now we've accelerated that. So we've got, you know, a number of assets that are in different stages of disposition for us, LOI or conversations in market. So, you know, we're still very active on that front. And, you know, we've always said nothing is precious in our real estate portfolio, so we will continue to evaluate transacting on the real estate portfolio, but doing that where we are evaluating each property type and actually selling into strength.
You know, every single asset that we have sold in the time that you have been covering us, Shaun, we have sold with a managed or franchise contract. You know, these are high-quality assets. They are, you know, high-performing, and so when we think about the disposition strategy, we will, you know, make sure that we're preserving those, that distribution. So that's. We have taken some time to do this, but we have realized great value for shareholders. I'll just remind you that we've sold $5.6 billion. We've realized $5.6 billion in proceeds and have done that at a multiple in excess of 15x . So, you know, you do the math on-
Ah
the value of that.
I would just say two punctuation points. First, there is zero chance that we will not get to 90%+ fee-based earnings by 2027. None. There's no chance we won't. Second, you can think about this as a glide path. This is not a once we get to ninety percent, we're just gonna, you know, sit back and kick our feet up and have a beer.
Accomplished.
Right. This is a glide path towards being much more deliberate about whittling down that real estate portfolio even further. I don't think we'll ever get to zero. I think you will find us episodically going and buying assets, but it will always be with an eye towards recycling, being able to resell those assets in the future. I just don't want to pretend that we're not going to use our balance sheet in the future because that's not realistic. There's no competitor in our industry that's not used their balance sheet. And so we will, but it won't be a material piece of our earnings base.
I'm going to come back to that in a minute, but I did want to, you know, comment that I did lose a bet to Adam on a big chunk of your $5.6 billion on the underwriting of Orlando, so I owe you a glass of tequila from Mexico on that. So,
Wow, I didn't know you scored a glass of tequila on it. Good job, Adam.
Yeah.
Bottle won't pass the won't.
May-
Pass the test we're allowed to do.
Make sure he buys it at Hyatt, at a Hyatt Hotel.
Yeah. For sure.
Yeah.
So kind of the last area, you know, Joan, and I'm sure you get this one in just about every meeting, but I'm going to go down the credit card path.
Well, yes.
So, lightning round, credit card, what can you share at this point? Again, these are important negotiations. Just help us put a few parameters around this because we know these co-brand cards are becoming increasingly important value streams for, you know, for you on this side, but also for your World of Hyatt members.
Yeah, you know, the program has grown exceptionally since 2021, when the last time we, you know, sort of re-upped the original agreement that was signed in 2017. And, you know, we're in a position now that we believe is a very strong one, given our customer base and the attractiveness of our network to cardholders. And so that's Hyatt cardholders and others that are using their points to stay in our hotels. So, you know, I think that that strength is something that, you know, we are considering as we are entering into these negotiations, and we will be able to update you by the end of this year, early next year at the latest.
Just remind us, your current co-brand partner on the card is on the banking relationship?
It's Chase.
Chase. Okay. Thank you very much, Joan, Mark.
Thank you, Joan.
Really appreciate your time.
Appreciate it.
And thank you for coming and joining us.
Thanks, Shaun.