Hub Group, Inc. (HUBG)
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Earnings Call: Q3 2018

Oct 25, 2018

Operator

Hello, welcome to the Hub Group third quarter 2018 earnings conference call. Dave Yeager, Hub's CEO, Don Maltby, Hub's President and Chief Operating Officer, and Terri Pizzuto, Hub's CFO, are joining me on the call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. In order for everyone to have an opportunity to participate, please limit your inquiries to one primary and one follow-up question. Any forward-looking statements made during the course of the call or contained in the release represent the company's best good faith judgment as to what may happen in the future. Statements that are forward-looking can be identified by the use of words such as believe, expect, anticipate, and project, and variations of these words. Please review the cautionary statements in the release.

You should refer to the disclosures in the company's Form 10-K and other SEC filings regarding factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to your host, Dave Yeager. Sir, you may begin.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Good afternoon, thank you for participating in Hub Group's third quarter earnings call. Our third quarter results are the culmination of a great deal of work and effort to increase our margins while reducing expenses in our intermodal network. Our intermodal volume was up 3% for the quarter as we benefited from a very strong pricing environment and excellent operational execution. We continue to see a strong peak while experiencing capacity constraints across our network. We believe that this tight capacity environment will continue through the end of the year. The strength of the intermodal market, coupled with the cost advantage versus trucks, will contribute toward a positive pricing environment in 2019. We are forecasting mid to high single-digit price increases in 2019, along with continued volume growth. With that, I'll turn the call over to Don to talk about the performance of our other business units.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Thanks, Dave. We had a strong quarter as we continue to price our products and services to reflect the market and provide the solutions that our customers have come to expect. Our targeted approach has allowed us to grow both revenue and yield, while we also focus on process, workflow engineering, network improvements, and execution. We believe we are well-positioned to drive further yield improvement and growth in the fourth quarter and 2019. Our pipeline for all of our service lines is robust as we further deploy our go-to-market strategy. Now let's talk about the businesses. Logistics revenue for the quarter declined 11% as we continue to feel the impact of lost customers from earlier this year due to bankruptcy and insourcing. However, we were able to increase yield with our existing customers by taking contractual price increases, reducing our costs, and providing our customers additional solutions to drive results.

We are focused on yield and process improvements with our existing customers and future growth with new ones. We expect growth in logistics from two accounts that were onboarded late in the third quarter, as well as a strong pipeline for 2019. During the third quarter, we were successful in renewing several customer contracts that will provide incremental margin contribution in the fourth quarter and for the duration of those contracts. We continue to advance and standardize our TMS technology as our logistics offering remains quite strong. Dedicated revenue increased 36% as we continue to onboard new customers. We have a very robust sales pipeline due to our great service, focus on safety, and value to our customers. We did, however, experience higher costs due to start-up expenses, driver wage increases, and greater use of outside carriers.

We are focused on ensuring we have strong returns in this rapidly growing service line. truck brokerage grew both revenue and margin due largely to our targeted customer approach and positioning our value-added services. We are focused on growing our contract business by leveraging our transactional and value-added services and better aligning the team with our go-to-market strategy. In addition, we are re-engineering our pricing and operational process, investing in talent, building deeper relationships with our carriers, and developing technology that will enhance our ability to align capacity and demand. We expect the first wave of technology enhancements to be in place in the first quarter. We believe we have a long runway of growth in our truck brokerage segment as we focus on contract business while continuing to grow our transactional and value-added service lines. We are well-positioned and are industry leaders in this dynamic, high-service space.

I will turn it over to Terri to review the numbers.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Thanks, Don, hello, everyone. I'd like to highlight three points for the quarter. First, we sold Mode for approximately $238.5 million on August 31st. Mode is reported as a discontinued operation in our financial statements. Second, intermodal beat our expectations because of higher pricing, improved accessorial recovery, and excellent execution in spite of rail service.

Third, we continue to explore acquisitions that will enhance our integrated supply chain management solutions. We spent about half a million dollars this quarter for due diligence, and we had $267.5 million in cash at the end of September. Let's take a more in-depth look at our performance in the third quarter. All the numbers that I'll be talking about exclude Mode since we sold it. Hub Group's third quarter revenue increased 13% to $933 million. Hub Group's diluted earnings per share was $0.77. This is compared to an adjusted 2017 diluted earnings per share of $0.34 that excludes one-time costs of $1.5 million and uses a 25% effective tax rate. That's an impressive 126% increase. Taking a closer look at a few of our key metrics.

Hub's gross margin increased $28.7 million, or 33%, due to growth in intermodal and truck brokerage, partially offset by declines in dedicated and logistics. Gross margin as a percentage of sales was 12.3%, or 180 basis points higher than last year. This is the highest third quarter gross margin percentage we've seen since 2009. Intermodal gross margin as a percentage of sales was 420 basis points higher than last year and was the largest contributor to the yield improvement. The year-over-year intermodal price increase was higher each month as the quarter progressed. Third quarter average rail transits were up eight tenths of a day, which negatively impacted our results. Truck brokerage gross margin as a percentage of sales was up 70 basis points because of an increase in contractual rates. We focused on the right lanes for the right customers at the right price.

Logistics gross margin as a percentage of sales was up 50 basis points due to price increases and changes in customer mix. Dedicated gross margin as a percentage of sales declined significantly because of start-up costs for new contracts, changes in customer mix, and a challenging driver market. We're taking several actions to overcome these headwinds. Those actions center on increasing driver productivity and improving recruiting and retention. This will reduce our reliance on third-party carriers. We're also aligning the dedicated pricing team with our business solutions group to ensure we have the appropriate returns on our existing deals. Operating margin was 3.7%, or a solid 180 basis points higher than last year. I'll discuss what we expect for the fourth quarter of 2018. We believe that our diluted earnings per share will range from $0.85-$0.95.

By service line, we expect 10%-15% revenue growth in intermodal, a 5%-10% decline in truck brokerage revenue, and a 10%-15% decline in logistics revenue. We expect dedicated sales in the fourth quarter will range from $75 million-$85 million. We expect gross margin as a percentage of sales in the fourth quarter will range from 12.8%-13.4%. We believe that our quarterly costs and expenses will be between $85 million and $87 million. We project that our effective income tax rate will range from 22%-22.4% in the fourth quarter, and that our tax rate for the year will be around 23.5%. That wraps up our financial performance. Dave, over to you for closing remarks.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thank you, Terri. We're very pleased with the third quarter earnings. They're the result of focused process changes in intermodal, coupled with the positive pricing environment across all of our service lines. We're bullish on the remainder of 2018, and believe that 2019 has significant upside due to the strong freight market and the opportunity to deploy our intermodal process enhancements across business lines. Another positive third quarter note was the sale of Mode. While Mode is a good business, due to its agent-based model, it was not a strategic asset for Hub. We intend to use the cash we received from the sale of Mode for strategic acquisitions that will add value to our network. We are focused on acquisitions that allow us to diversify our service offerings as we build a strong platform for continued growth and the creation of significant value for our shareholders.

With that, we'll open up the line to any questions.

Operator

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press star then one on your touchtone phone. If you wish to be removed from the queue, you may press the pound sign or the hash key. If you're using a speakerphone, you may need to pick up on your handset first before pressing the numbers. Once again, if you have a question, please press star one on your touchtone phone at this time. The first question in the queue comes from Scott Group with Wolfe Research. Your line is open, sir.

Speaker 13

Good afternoon, everyone. This is Ryan on for Scott.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Hello, Ryan.

Speaker 13

How are you guys thinking about implications of Precision Scheduled Railroading at UP and NSC, and is this good or bad for you guys?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Well, I think that the approach of both of our western partner, the UP, as well as our eastern partner, the Norfolk Southern, is not a radical slash costs. As an example, the UP's Unified Plan 2020 is from a bottom up with the operators, and they'll be looking to, in fact, reduce costs in the longer term, but also to enhance the service levels. We are very confident. Service is stabilized. We're very confident that it will continue to get better over the near and long term. We're very much in favor of the moves they have.

Speaker 13

Makes sense. What kind of visibility do you guys have to rail cost increases in 2019? Are you expecting bigger or smaller rail cost increases relative to this year?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We have good visibility into 2019. They'll be similar to 2018.

Speaker 13

Got it. Can you guys provide a little more color on 2019 pricing? Do you plan to focus more on volume or pricing over the next 12 months?

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Yeah. We plan on both. We think this is a market that you can grow your business with your targeted customers and take price. We plan on taking price in 2019.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

As Dave said in his prepared remarks, we expect mid to high single digits. We would expect our volume growth to be consistent with the market.

Speaker 13

Right. Kind of a more balanced approach.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Very much so.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Yep.

Speaker 13

Just lastly from us, do you have any additional color on timing for the next acquisition? How are you guys thinking about your ability to fully replace the dilution from the Mode deal?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yes, as far as the timing, I think I said on other calls, I would be very disappointed if, in fact, we don't have an acquisition accomplished by the end of this year. That being said, I think that any acquisition would not immediately be to the accretion level that Mode would. I would suggest to you that what we have been looking at to acquire is something that is very strategic for us, that we'll be able to grow. It's not just what we're buying today and the earnings we're buying today, it's what we can make of it long term with the management team.

of the acquired company.

Speaker 13

Great. Appreciate the time, guys.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Ryan.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question in the queue comes from Ben Hartford of Baird. Your line is open, sir.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Hey, good evening, everyone. Dave, maybe back to your point about seeing a strong peak. I think the data points have been a little mixed. From your standpoint, how has peak been trending relative to normal seasonality? I guess that's point one. Point two, the topic about the looming January 1 tariff and whether there's going to be any pull forward into December. I'd be interested in your perspective on that point as well.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah. As far as peak this season, it has been very robust. As you may recall, in fact, on July 30th, the Union Pacific declared a constrained environment. That has continued to date to we're still seeing a lot of constrained markets, Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta. Most of the major cities, in fact, are very tight on capacity for intermodal.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Right.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I do want to emphasize that. We have seen the truck industry, the over-the-road, that has softened a little bit, the intermodal has been extraordinarily strong. Are some people going to pull forward some product? I think that's a possibility. I think that some of our clients may have even pulled forward early, which caused the early peak in late July and early August. We may see some of that, but we haven't had a lot of discussion on it with our customer base. Thus far, I can't say that we're going to see a great deal of it then.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Right.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Okay. Terri, maybe back to the point of the past two calls, the questions about this core Mode business, or excuse me, core Hub business now that Mode is gone, and what the margin profile should look like. I think you guys have said in the past that a couple healthy pricing cycles, you can get to 13% gross margin, maybe 4% EBIT margin. First, are those still guideposts to think about in the present model? Is the pricing environment, has it been strong enough in 2018? Is the outlook in 2019 enough to be able to put those targets in play for 2019?

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah. We forecast that for the fourth quarter, our gross margin as a percent of sales will range from 12.8%-13.4%. Certainly higher than it was any other quarter this year due to the pricing environment, Intermodal's excellent execution. Our operating margin was 3.7% this quarter, which was 180 basis points higher than last year in the third quarter. We are projecting that our fourth quarter operating margin will be 4% or maybe a little bit higher. Although it's peak season right now, and that certainly impacts the numbers, we think that we've got strong tailwinds for next year with the pricing environment, with how strong peak has been. We'll get those mid to high single digit prices, grow our volume

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Our truck brokerage business, we think we have a lot of opportunity there. That's one of our highest margin businesses, and we think that we're still on target to hit 4%, if not higher next year.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Okay. That's helpful. Last one, just Dave, to circle back on the acquisition. As you look at these targets, do you have a sense as to what the capital intensity is or what you want them to be in the context of the present book of business? Do you expect them to be more asset light or more asset based, or does it matter, and you're focused more on strategic fit and other factors?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I think over the longer term, we're definitely looking at strategic fit. As far as the ones we're looking at on an immediate basis, it's definitely non-asset based. That's the direction I think you'll see us going at least over the next several years. There could be some asset intensity later on in three or four years that we may want to have some add-ons. These are non-asset based, what we're looking at.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Ben.

Operator

The next question in the queue comes from Justin Long with Stephens. Please proceed.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Thanks, and good afternoon. Maybe to start with a question on intermodal pricing. I think last quarter you talked about mid-single-digit increases in 2019. Now you're saying mid to high single digit increases in 2019. You mentioned the truckload market has softened a little bit. We've seen that in the spot rates. What gives you confidence in that increased outlook for pricing next year?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Well, Justin, I think there's several reasons. Number one is just capacity. I do think that that's going to continue to be an issue. The other is cost. During this period as fuel continues to rise, really despite the fact that we've been able to take significant increases this year in the high single digit, low double digit, we're still the spread between intermodal and truck has expanded over that time period. We feel very comfortable there is a long runway here with which we can continue to increase pricing. That being said, of course, we are going to have some offsets as far as from a cost perspective with rail cost increases as our rail partners are investing a tremendous amount of capital. Critically, driver wages will continue to escalate over the longer term.

One thing I didn't put in the prepared remarks was that about a little less than a third of our overall enhancement in gross margin in intermodal was because the intermodal team went out aggressively and eliminated a lot of unnecessary costs that were not recoverable, such as accessorials. That will stick with us as well over the longer term as they've changed a lot of bad contractual arrangements that we had with clients, and made it so that it's much more revenue neutral to us versus actually a negative on our gross margin.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

I would say the other thing is we're much more nimble in pricing now than we ever have been with the leadership we've got. We've got terrific processes to make sure we're getting the right price, and it's what we should get in the market.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Right.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Yeah, Justin, I think the biggest process is how we go to market, our go-to market strategy, the targeted of accounts, how we price a lane in the market, and defining our network have all been improved over the last year. You're seeing the results of that, besides, of course, the market helping. I think internally, we've done a good job of structuring that.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

That's all helpful. Dave, to your point on the spread between intermodal and truckload pricing, what does that look like in your network today if you look at pricing on a contractual basis?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

On a contractual basis, again, these are rough numbers, I think what we're looking at is on the shorter haul business, less than, let's say, 800 miles, it's probably in the 15%, 20%, maybe 25% range, the differential. It's in the longer haul, the 1,000 mile, the transcontinental moves, where you can get up as high as a 40% variance between over the road and intermodal.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Okay, that's helpful. Then secondly, I wanted to ask about dedicated and specifically dedicated margins in 2019. If I just think about the growth you're onboarding in the back half of this year and the startup costs potentially moderating as we get into next year, what kind of operating margin improvement could we see in that dedicated business next year?

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

We think it'll go up significantly from where it is now. We've got some new processes in place where we are focused on a couple things. One, improving our daily operational execution. Secondly, implementing some of the same pricing processes that we have in intermodal to dedicated. That's why we aligned the dedicated pricing team with our business process team.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Okay. If you were to put numbers on it, do you think it's 300 basis points, 500 basis points? Do you have any ballpark?

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

On how much higher it'll go?

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Correct.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Yeah, I would think at least 200 to 300 basis points.

Justin Long
Analyst, Stephens

Okay, great. All right. Thank you very much. I'll leave it at that. Appreciate the time.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Justin.

Operator

We have our next question from Todd Fowler with KeyBank.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Great. Good evening, everyone.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Hi, Todd.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Hey, Dave. Hi, Don. Hi, Teri. Dave, just on your pricing commentary to follow up on that line of questioning, the mid to high single digits, do you think that that's where the intermodal market's going to be in 2019? Or do you think that your opportunity set is different, given some of the things that you're doing with accessorials or maybe focusing on some certain lanes? Is that more of a Hub Group type number, or do you think that that's really where the industry can be going into next year?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I think a lot of the efficient operators that, in fact, that's where they can be. I can't speak for the entire industry, but I think that the opportunity set is certainly there. Despite the fact we're true about roughly 90+% of our bids, there is 10%, which are lagging, that have yet to take effect into the fourth quarter. If you look at it sequentially through 2018, each quarter, we progressively were able to get more and more price. There's going to be a catch-up effect of the first quarter bids that we did in the second quarter. Yes, I think that that is very achievable, and we're very focused on continuing to increase those prices. Again, partially to offset the cost that we anticipate. In addition to that, just trying to get our return on invested capital to a reasonable level.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Sure. That makes sense. Just so I understand that point, what you're basically saying is that a contract that renewed maybe nine months ago is below where the market would be today. As you reset those the first half of 2019, that's part of the pricing opportunity?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Far more eloquent than I there, Todd.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Well said, Todd.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

That's exactly correct.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Just wanted to make sure. Okay.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Well said.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Just for my follow-up, thinking about the fourth quarter guidance, is there any reason why we shouldn't use that as a run rate as we move into 2019? If we think about what normal sequential patterns would be off of the fourth quarter into the first quarter, not looking for specific guidance, but I guess, is there anything unusual as to why we couldn't take 4Q and run rate that into 2019? Obviously, understanding that there may or may not be acquisitions or something like that, but just using that as a base for a starting point going into next year.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah. Are you talking about the gross margin line or the cost and expenses, or both?

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Well, Teri, I was really talking about the EPS. If we took the $0.90 at the midpoint and back into an EBIT number off of that and just did sequential trends. I'm just trying to think about, is there-

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah, no. I would say, this, it's peak season now, we are able to garner more price during peak at some times than we would in the first and second quarters next year when it's slower than peak. That could weigh on margins a little bit in intermodal. To offset that, I think we have a lot of room for improvement in dedicated margins, and that we expect to go up next year from where they're at right now because we won't have the startup costs, we won't use, hopefully, as many third-party carriers, and we're also taking our pricing disciplines that we have in intermodal, putting them at dedicated. Net-net at the margin line, maybe just a little lower.

For costs and expenses, we've every quarter had the bonus, a $7.5 million higher than the prior year because we're doing very well this year. Last year we didn't get any bonus for EPS component of the bonus. Next year, that resets, that would probably It generally resets at where we ended for the prior year. That would be a benefit that you'd see next year that you wouldn't have in the fourth quarter of this year.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Right. Yeah, I would just suggest to you that the 2017 lack of bonus proves that our bonus plan works. We didn't deserve it.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Lots of motivation there.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

At any rate, I would also say that there's upside with the Unyson Logistics because that's another area where some of the pricing strategies that were incorporated by our intermodal team were incorporated with them. We'll see improvement in their contribution as well.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Truck brokerage since truck brokerage now is under the same pricing umbrella as intermodal is, and so in that division as well, we should see improvement in the margins. Plus, we hope to be able to capitalize on some of the great relationships we have with our customer and grow our business in truck brokerage.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We could grow our contracted business in truck brokerage. Absolutely.

Todd Fowler
Analyst, KeyBank

Okay, good. That's a lot of things for us to work off of. I appreciate the time and very nice quarter here. Thanks.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Todd.

Operator

The next question in the queue comes from David Ross with Stifel. Your line is open, sir. Please begin.

David Ross
Analyst, Stifel

Yes, good afternoon, everyone.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Hi, David.

David Ross
Analyst, Stifel

Following up on the comments you made about looking to price in dedicated more like intermodal. Could you elaborate on that? Just because as I think about it, dedicated tends to be a longer-term contract than intermodal, with different aspects to the pricing in terms of costs. I guess, what is it about intermodal pricing that should help dedicated?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Well, I think number one, it's with existing clients. Admittedly, this is self-inflicted, but we didn't take some of the price increases that we should have with our clients as our costs, of course, driver wages going up substantially fuel. That's specifically what we're talking about. It's also just the science and the methodology of how we go about it and making sure that, in fact, we price it at a level that we're going to like and that we incorporate in our contracts escalation clauses that will allow us to offset future increases, as we do believe, and certainly through 2019, we're going to continue to see inflation from a wage perspective.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah, you're a capital-intensive business, the other thing that we look at in connection with the price is the ROIC.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Right.

David Ross
Analyst, Stifel

That's very important. Good to hear you say that. Rail service. Been a drag, been an issue. I guess, what comments can you offer about how that's unfolded through the quarter and how you see it going into next year, and whether or not that allows for any benefit in your pricing discussions with the railroads?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I'll tackle the last one first. The railroads are seeing some record quarters from volume and revenue. As a direct result of that is that we do have some service delays. There's been other environmental issues that have impacted it, wildfires, hurricanes. The service is in large part, in my mind, due to the increases in volume. I do believe that they're investing effectively. We have seen overall services stable. It's not where we want it, but it's stable. It's actually probably contributing to part of the capacity constraints that we're seeing within the rail industry is probably our fleet of 37,000 containers is probably really only 36,000 right now because of the slower transit times. To answer your question, we're not going to see any power towards us to reduce what our rail costs will be as a result of the service.

We do expect that with the UP's Unified Plan 2020 and with some of the changes that Norfolk Southern's undertaking, that we will see more accelerated improvement in service as we get into the first quarter and into 2019.

David Ross
Analyst, Stifel

It sounds like in the meantime, you can pass on that price to customers due to capacity constraints, so once the service improves, that would allow you to pick up volume and grow that way as well.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

That is very true, David.

David Ross
Analyst, Stifel

Cool. Thank you.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from Brian Ossenbeck with JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Brian Ossenbeck
Analyst, JPMorgan

Hey, good evening. Thanks for taking the question. I was wondering if you could expand on the comments earlier about re-engineering the operational and pricing process in truck brokerage.

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

Sure. This is Don. Yeah, we've looked at our business. We've got a great franchise in the brokerage side. We've done very well in our value-added services and transactional piece that we've added, and we think there's some large upside on the contractual side of our business. What we've done is looked at how we go to market across all of our business lines, of course, over the last few years, and how we deliver that. When we do bids, which as you know, most of our intermodal business is bid, we want to take a targeted approach in how we're going to go to market, price that business to win it, service it, and then grow into our other services from that.

It's really taking the targeted approach and looking at specific business, especially on the contracted side of it, and see how we can grow that.

Brian Ossenbeck
Analyst, JPMorgan

Okay. Would this be in place and ready to go for the next bid season, or will it take a little bit longer?

Donald G. Maltby
President and COO, Hub Group

No, it should be in place by the bid season for sure.

Brian Ossenbeck
Analyst, JPMorgan

Got it. This is a follow-up to the point on capacity. How do you think about the container purchase and the fleet for next year? Is that something you would see expanding a little bit from here, or are you counting on a bit more improvement in rail service and transit time to free up some of that capacity?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We do think we will see some incremental improvement in the rail transits. We're thinking a smaller build than we've had over the last three or four years, maybe 1,500 units. It'll be a smaller build as to your point, we do believe that we'll see some enhancement within the rail service that will allow us to essentially equivalently grow the fleet.

Brian Ossenbeck
Analyst, JPMorgan

Okay, great. Thanks for your time.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Brian.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Speaker 12

Hi, this is Diane from Morgan Stanley. My first question is, a lot of other intermodal carriers have talked about a gap and a lag between intermodal and truck pricing, and that seemed to have occurred with some of the carriers this year. What gives you confidence that you can achieve the mid-to-high single-digit intermodal pricing next year, which would be in line with what some TL carriers are expecting?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Sure. Well, I think that basically we've changed our processes. Our intermodal team changed the processes. We reacted much more quickly. I agree, traditionally, intermodal providers were anywhere from six to nine months behind a market cycle. We are right on top of it. We keep testing the highs. I believe that we will be right in lockstep with the trucking increases in 2019, and possibly even exceed them as rail intermodal, the capacity is constrained right now, and very likely will be into 2019. I see a lot of opportunity there. I think that Hub structurally, our intermodal team is in a position to be able to take advantage of those opportunities in the market.

Speaker 12

Oh, great. Has Hub in the past, on the intermodal front, exceeded truck pricing?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

That's a really good question. In my experience, we have not seen that. I do think that this is rather an extraordinary time now, where we are seeing a lot of driver capacity constraints, despite the fact we've seen it loosen up a little bit in the over-the-road market. With the escalation that the trucking industry has seen in costs, intermodal is just that much more of a bargain right now. We believe that there's a lot more upside. I would agree with you that historically, that has not been the case, that historically intermodal has priced at a slower rate and a lower level than truck. That may change in 2019. I think it's got a very good opportunity to do so.

Speaker 12

Oh, okay. Well, that'll be exciting to see. My second question is, can you give us just detail on how your intermodal volumes growth trended throughout the quarter, and what you're seeing thus far in October?

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Sure. We look at it by a business day basis. July was down 1.5%, August was up 4.9%, and September up 5%. Part of the reason for that, there was one more business day in July and one less business day in September. That equates to our volume growth for the quarter up to 3%.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Through October.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Through October, we are up 3.7%, through October 23rd, on a like business day basis.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

To be specific.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yes.

Speaker 12

Okay. Great. Thank you. Appreciate that. Just one more on truck brokerage. The new initiatives that you guys are embarking on, is this an offensive or a defensive move, maybe just given the competition in the space?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah, the space, as you know, is very fragmented. There's new entries with regards to technology. We feel we've got a very strong franchise. What we're doing is deploying technology and business resources and processes to support the business. At the end of the day, we're going to deploy technology that matches capacity and demand and enable our folks to be able to do a better job with that. I would not say it's defensive as much as it's an effort to grow market share with existing business and get new business with a product that delivers service.

Speaker 12

Great. Thank you.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from Jason Seidl with Cowen and Company. Please proceed with your question.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Thank you, operator. Hey, Dave. Hey, Don. Hey, Teri. Want to circle back on some of the comments you made on logistics. You mentioned that you got several new contracts that you re-upped and got better pricing on. Can you tell us what % of the business those contracts account for logistics?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I'll let Terri answer the %.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah, I can.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah. With logistics, maybe to define it a better, we kind of lost some business due to bankruptcy and insourcing.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Right.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

The mix of our business has changed.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We've also done, as you know, the market changed, Jason, last year. We were more disciplined in going to market and changing prices with our contracted customers to be able to start to grow the margin piece.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah, most of that started materializing in the price increases in the third quarter. It wasn't in the first half of the year as we changed processes. We've gotten through most of the price increases for the existing customers.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Now in the new business that Don referred to was for a couple customers, and we think that'll bring on maybe five to seven million of revenue in the fourth quarter.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Okay. It's more likely to have an impact on 4Q than it did on 3Q.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Correct.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah, in 2019 because as we take-

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Right. Exactly.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Right.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Exactly.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yep.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

My next question, I want to tackle the rail side a little bit differently than some of the other analysts. You mentioned, I think in the quarter that you lost eight tenths of a day in rail transit times, and that hurt some of the results. Have you guys quantified on a dollar basis what the poor railroad services cost Hub this year? Just what we're looking at, I'm going to assume next year is going to be a tailwind with improved service, and I'll knock on wood as I say that here.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We have not really calculated what the cost is. We do know that it's more of an opportunity cost than anything because we do have It's roughly 1,700 boxes with the slowdown in transit. We could calculate that, but it has not been overly severe, and it's something that we have been able to manage with our clients. We haven't lost clients as a result of it because we're able to communicate realistic transit times to them. So it's an opportunity cost of 1,700 boxes.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Two, because they turn twice a month.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Yeah, they turn twice a month.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

3,400.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

3,400 units.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Okay. Well, that's all point. I'm assuming that as rail service improves, and as, let's call it the second half of 2019, for two of your major partners, hopefully improves with putting in some precision railroading practices here that you should have some opportunity to gain some additional freight as their network clears up. Is that correct?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

I would suggest it'll free up, particularly in some of the very constrained cities that I'd mentioned earlier in the call, such as Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago. It would definitely assist us in supplying some amount of new equipment. It's not going to be transformational. It's maybe a 5% increase in the overall fleet, so it's not extremely impactful, but it certainly would be helpful.

Jason Seidl
Analyst, Cowen and Company

Okay. Well, those are my questions. Thank you for the time, as always, everyone.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Jason.

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Thanks, Jason.

Operator

Thank you. The next question in the queue comes from Matt Brooklier from Buckingham Research.

Matt Brooklier
Analyst, Buckingham Research

Hey, thanks, good evening. You guys talked about some startup costs at Dedicated. Just curious if you're able to quantify how much in the quarter. Do we have more startup costs in the fourth quarter? How should we think about the margin headwind there?

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah. To answer your first question, startup costs were about $825,000 this quarter. Matt, most of the startup costs related to a tight driver market and not having the drivers we needed. We incurred costs related to outsourcing freight to third-party carriers, which is very expensive. We also had driver recruiting costs associated with bringing on new drivers for our new business. We have made significant progress in hiring new drivers. Then finally, we incurred travel costs for staffing, onboarding, and training associated with the new contracts. In terms of your question on what to expect in the fourth quarter, we expect startup costs in the fourth quarter to range between $300,000 and $400,000. Our goal is to ensure that our existing business is running smoothly and that we have appropriate profitability in light of the ever-increasing driver wages.

Matt Brooklier
Analyst, Buckingham Research

Okay. Very robust answer there, Teri. If we think about the driver market's still tight, we're also hearing that maybe there is a little bit more supply coming into portions of the spot market. Has the driver market and driver availability maybe gotten a little bit better in the second half of this year? Or do you still think it's about as tight as where we were in the first half when this market started to take off?

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

It does seem as though the amount of capacity that's available, particularly in the spot market, is higher. Attracting drivers is still just as difficult as it was in the first part of this year. I do think that it could be that a lot of the spot market pricing went over to be contractual throughout the year, so it had to lessen some of that tight capacity. Yeah, it's very difficult to attract. It's very competitive. The driver wages continue to go up at near double-digit rates, so it has not gotten any easier.

Matt Brooklier
Analyst, Buckingham Research

Okay. I guess your thoughts on the driver pay side of things, it sounds like there hasn't really been a change there either.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

We think in 2019, we're basically going to see an instant replay of 2018, that it will be at or near double-digit increases for driver wages.

Matt Brooklier
Analyst, Buckingham Research

Okay. That's all I got. Appreciate the time.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Thanks, Matt.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, to enter into the question queue, please press star one on your touch-tone phone. Next question in the queue comes from Ben Hartford from Baird. Your line is open, sir. Please proceed.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Hey, just a follow-up here. Terri, any initial thoughts on CapEx for 2019?

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

Yeah, we do. We think our CapEx will be about half of what it was this year, so maybe around $100 million. Dave mentioned earlier that we are in the preliminary phases right now of determining how many new containers we want to buy next year. Our best guess is 1,500 of them, but that's not a concrete number. Then we anticipate that our CapEx for HGT and HDT, Dedicated and trucking tractors and trailers, will be about $60 million-$70 million, and that our spend for IT will be approximately $30 million, which is similar to this year.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Okay. Then tax rate for 2019?

Terri A. Pizzuto
CFO, Hub Group

About 25%.

Benjamin Hartford
Analyst, Baird

Okay. That's great. Thank you.

Operator

Okay, there are no further questions in the queue. I will turn the call over to Mr. Yeager for any final remarks.

David Yeager
CEO, Hub Group

Well, thank you everyone for joining us today. As always, Teri, Don, and I would be available if you have additional questions. Once again, we appreciate your participation.

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's teleconference. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.