Problem, what does it take in order to reach autonomous features? I think today the industry is approaching it with a much more mature attitude. It understands what kind of technology, what kinds of specs you need in order to reach these kinds of features. The industry is much more focused on getting them in the right way, on timelines that are reasonable with the right technologies. I'm very optimistic that we are now at the maturity stage rather than the hype state, and getting to, in the very few next years, these solutions rolled out. There are some already high-end solutions with high-end OEMs, but I believe it will be more and more abundant, more and more common to have these kinds of features.
Perfect. How should investors frame the opportunity today, maybe in terms of LiDAR penetration of light vehicles over the next five years? Is LiDAR now exclusive outside of China to L3, L4? If you are an automaker who's looking to adopt LiDAR on an L3 or L4 program, from what you're seeing, what is the penetration of that in five years in terms of, here's how many L3, L4 vehicles I want to sell out of my total?
Yeah. For Innoviz, there are two main segments that we are seeing maturing very quickly. One is for consumer applications, which I think will be spearheaded by a level three application. Level four, maybe at very high-end vehicles. Level three, more abundant. And level four for commercial applications, which we actually see maturing also very fast because they use a different business model. If I look ahead a few years from now, at least from the Innoviz perspective, 2026, we will see the first commercial application like shuttles, robotaxis, and so on, buses, that will start launching and we will see actual solutions, actual brands, OEMs deploying fleets all over the world, Europe, US, obviously China. Level three, I believe, is coming at also quite fast. I think 2027 will be a more meaningful year for level three for consumer applications.
If we are looking to the end of this decade, 2030, I think at least the predictions are something in the 10% penetration at level three. I think level four for consumer application is still very low, but I think that level four for commercial application will be quite abundant already by 2030. Like robotaxis, we have already way more driving in California. I believe it will happen faster and faster. Uber announced lately they are working, they're adopting the ID bus from Volkswagen, which we are on. Lyft, we heard, made some statements, so we see the momentum.
Perfect. A couple more industry questions. You mentioned this as well in the beginning. You know, the automakers have been slow to source. You know, years ago, there was a thought that we'd have a lot more penetration by now. It sounds like it's still coming with L3, L4. What was it that led to the slowdown in automaker sourcing? How are you feeling about the next 12 months, from the pace of potential new business awards for yourselves and just the broader industry?
I think regarding the automakers and the OEM, I think in general speaking, the industry faced some slowdowns in general because of EVs, because of the economy, the polarization, China, and the rest of the world. There were different forces on the industry that maybe slowed it a little bit down. In addition to that, again, there was some kind of a backlash of all these programs that have failed and the OEMs regrouping and trying to understand what is the right approach towards these issues. Because at the end of the day, level three is still features that are sought after. The industry is always after new features, always after safety.
You know, if we are looking, and they are looking over their shoulders and see what the Chinese are doing, like a crystal ball, what will happen in a year or two, then all understand they have to run fast, adopt new technologies. I see, I think there was a slowdown. Going forward, for the next, let's say a year or so, I do believe in, in Innoviz guided also in that respect that there will be additional programs announced, additional wins, because we believe the industry is going to this direction and understanding that in order to have a car, let's say in 2027 or 2028, you have to have the decision as early as possible in the next few months.
Perfect. So we had the slowdown, and now it seems like pipelines are filling up. You're more maybe optimistic about decisions in the next 12 months, which is good to hear. How's the competitive environment today? You know, years ago, right, you walk through CES, there were just dozens of LiDAR companies. Obviously, there's a sort of industry in China and outside of China. Talk about what you're seeing today in the competitive environment globally for the company.
Yeah. So, usually, when we went public, I think there were more than eight LiDAR companies, all telling the same stories and all trying to pitch for the same programs and so on and so forth. I think today it's more clear, because, A, you need to meet certain specs. You need to, at the end of the day, again, it's technology. You have to have the right solution for the right problem. I guess, today Innoviz has proven because it's won so many programs with very meaningful customers that bring our LiDARs to a level of maturity that is well-fitted for the industry. At least in my perspective, on one hand, China is out of the game, at least outside of China.
We see some U.S.-based names that are less relevant because the technology either was left behind or still not mature enough. I think Innoviz is a sort of a sweet point. We have the technology. It's mature enough. We are ramping up our production line. The cost structure is at the right price point for the industry in order to adopt it, definitely for level three, not only for high-end vehicles, but also for the mid-range. I think we are in good position in more than one aspect: technology, maturity, cost, production, all of this come into place.
That's great. We talked a little bit more about that as well. What was it that led to your technology kind of leadership and some of the wins that you've announced? Maybe talk a little about the price points you're currently offering on the unit as well and kind of what was it that led to this consolidation where you're still here and still kind of, you know, winning business and looking to win more business?
Yeah. I think we always listened very carefully to the industry and did not take shortcuts. We understood that this is a long, long-term game. In order to serve this industry, you need to listen very carefully, what they need in terms of the technology and specs. You need to work in the way that the industry is working, meeting the qualifications, meeting their standards, ramping up production in a way that the industry can accept it. We bring not only the technology, we bring a lot of experience of how to run an automotive program. We became a tier one, so we took a lot of responsibilities. At the end of the day, the industry wants you to bring the technology, then reduce the risk.
The risk management factor is very important, specifically when you are dealing with a functional, safe, or mission-critical component. Then you need to meet the price point, and you need to show maturity and production capacity. I think Innoviz is meeting all of these criteria and is able to serve the industry. It's a multitude of factors that come into play. I believe that because Innoviz took the very hard way, the long way, it's now reaching its fruition.
Perfect. One question we often get is, where do you stand and how do you work with the likes of NVIDIA, maybe on the Hyperion platform, Mobileye? Talk about your relationships with those companies, how you go to market, and ultimately how the technology, you know, and platforms come together.
Yeah. So, there are a few leading platforms for the industry. Mobileye, obviously, is one of them. NVIDIA is another. There are some others. It is very important in this ecosystem to have these kinds of collaborations. With Mobileye, we have a very tight collaboration because we have already won a few programs together. We're working together, and the integration is already deep in the process. The process is already very mature. Today, when we are competing on programs, we can offer our compatibility not only in terms of, you know, we have the right technology, but the compatibility to other players, the ecosystem, the platforms. Very close relationship with Mobileye, both for level four, the commercial application on the Drive platform, and level three for the Chauffeur. With NVIDIA, hopefully we, obviously we are co-collaborating.
NVIDIA is offering their Hyperion platform, which is basic, it's not a closed platform, but it's a platform that they are trying to bring a solution to the market. We have this platform, and we have this suite of sensors. It's working well. Basically, today, I would say that NVIDIA, in many cases, advises as a reference dev design, Innoviz LiDAR. Again, because of the collaboration, because of the recognition that Innoviz is in the right spot, the right maturity level, and pricing, and so on and so forth, to be the right partner for integration. The reason we don't have a project with NVIDIA is because they simply didn't win anything.
Hopefully, this will be resolved in the next, maybe few months, within a year, once, hopefully NVIDIA wins something, and hopefully we can win with them together a project.
Perfect. Maybe framing the company's growth over the next few years, we could maybe do it by vertical and start with robotaxi. How big of an opportunity can robotaxi be for you? Maybe review the content and, and if you can.
Yeah.
The pricing and how you see, you know, volume both for customers and the industry progressing, you know, two, three, four years.
Yeah. So we have the consumer applications. Obviously, the consumer market is very big. You sell between 90-100 million cars per year. Obviously, in commercial application, that is not the case. The numbers are much lower in terms of vehicle, but the content per vehicle is different. In level three, we are selling one LiDAR per vehicle, and obviously, you need the volumes, and you have the volumes through the volumes of the industry. In level four, the commercial application, we are selling nine LiDARs per vehicle, which roughly translates to, let's say, a few thousands of dollars per vehicle. While in level three, it's a few hundreds of dollars per vehicle. Here, you have a few thousands of dollars per vehicle because of the number of LiDARs. We are selling the long-range LiDAR and the short-range LiDAR.
This eventually translates into doubling our opportunities. Innoviz was very focused on the Level 3 application, the consumer application. Once we were integrated into the Drive platform of Mobileye, we have doubled the opportunity because you need, at least, we heard numbers that range between a few tens of thousands of vehicles to hundreds of thousands of vehicles per year, until 2030. For Innoviz, it means hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues if this materializes. If, for instance, Mobileye is able to sell these kinds of numbers, it is very meaningful for Innoviz. We shifted, I go, we added this segment as well to our offering because it simply is meaningful in terms of business, doubling the business.
Perfect. And on the, on the robotaxi application, and then we'll, we'll move to consumer. Do you also sell some software? Is that an opportunity as well, or?
Yeah. So basically, we have a software stack. It starts with very basic software that is dealing more with the LiDAR output, what we call the point cloud. This is the output of a LiDAR. There are many, like, imaging processing processes that you are doing on the point cloud, cleaning artifacts, and so on and so forth, to very sophisticated AI object detection classification, the standard perception software that you see. We are offering all this stack. Usually, when you're working with a partner like Mobileye, Mobileye excels in this perception software. We are usually selling not all of our stack, but only some of our stack, the more low-level, point cloud-related software, in order to allow Mobileye more efficient perception software outcome or output.
In cases that we are working on level three programs, then we can sell the whole stack. It depends what the needs of the OEMs. We come with our whole stack and sell any slice that is required for the specific program.
That's great. Shifting into the passenger vehicles, obviously, you mentioned a much bigger market. Maybe just review your key customers and the timing of some of the big launches for the company that have, of course, been announced in the next couple of years.
Yeah. The level four application, the commercial application, are actually going to launch sooner, in next year. Testing vehicles will already be deployed this year. Next year, we will be ready for SOP, start of production. You will see already vehicles deployed as of probably the second half of 2026. Level three applications are targeted as of 2027 and beyond, so it's a bit later. At least in terms of ramp, we are expecting to be SOP ready early next year and start seeing meaningful volume during the year towards the end, the second half of the year. In 2027, we expect to be a significant growth year in terms of volumes of LiDAR that are being sold.
Perfect. When you look at the startup production of your current pipeline, the RFIs, RFQs that you're looking to win, what years are those roughly falling? Is it, can you still make 2027 for new programs, or are things now more in the 2028 timeframe?
It depends on the platform. It depends on the setup. 2027 is very challenging already. If you take a decision now, 2027 is very challenging. I would say 2028 and onwards. Why do I think that still some programs will be able to meet 2027? It's depending on the platform that they are adopting. If they are adopting a platform that is already mature and the feature already exists, like, you know, the Chauffeur, using Chauffeur, and the Chauffeur was already tested, and you don't ask anything exotic from the platform, then it might be already in 2027. Roughly speaking, it's challenging. 2028 is more reasonable for programs that are being announced now or being sourced now.
Perfect. As automakers begin to, let's say, presumably source again in the next months or 12 months, could there be like a domino effect where there is a big program, maybe a surprise program where suddenly other automakers feel kind of the stress and rush to get this technology on the road in 2028, for example? Or do you think it's still gonna be mostly kind of slow and steady the next couple of years as automakers make decisions?
It's hard to tell because it has to do with not only the fact that everybody is looking for such features. I think the strongest catalyst is actually China. I think the industry understands that if it does not want to stay behind and it wants to still be able to compete in this game, they have to innovate. They have to introduce new features. They cannot stand behind. China is pushing very hard for autonomous features. China as a country is still not Level 3, but many programs at least are working, developing, heading in this direction. I believe, I do not know what exactly will be the ramp, but I think the industry is pushing now very hard towards autonomous features.
Great. And then maybe shifting to the third vertical, which is non-auto.
Yeah.
I think you talked about this too on the, on the Q1 call. What are you pursuing there? How big could that be for the company? And maybe talk about some of the, you know, investments you have to make to kind of get there.
The nice thing about this, it's a vertical. The non-auto are applications that already exist. We are not the only LiDAR company. There are some LiDAR companies that are playing outside the automotive space and decided to focus there. There are many applications that are relevant from smart city, security application, people monitoring, industrial applications. The need for LiDARs already exists. Basically, I would argue that everywhere you have a camera, you might want to use a 3D camera, which is a LiDAR, and might be very relevant to application. There are already programs out there that are seeking to use LiDAR technology. It so happens that Innoviz has an automotive-grade LiDAR that is very, very high-performing on one hand and cost-effective on the other hand.
It's very simple to get to log into these kinds of applications. There are the integrators that are already working on these programs and simply are doing the sourcing. The effort from Innoviz side is minimal. Yes, you need to have some tools in order to enable the integration. Other than that, the LiDAR exists. The capacity is ramping up. It makes a lot of sense, providing our LiDARs to applications that are being rolled as we speak and are being pushed as we speak by these kinds of channels like integrators or projects that already exist. We just need to tap into it.
How about, trucking? There's been some momentum there. Is that something you're pursuing as well over the next couple of years?
Yeah. Tracking is always part of the programs that we have and compete on. Part of our pipeline is tracking solutions. They have to some extent need more LiDARs because the vehicle is larger and longer, and you have more dead spots, and you need more than one sort of LiDAR. You need an ultra-long LiDAR, long-range LiDAR, short-range LiDAR, mid-range LiDAR. I think we cover well, at least, from the long range to the mid to short-range LiDARs. We are covered very well. I think we have very relevant solutions also for trucks.
Perfect. Let's talk about technology. I think, you know, you mentioned on the last call, I think it was, developing the Innoviz three LiDAR.
Yeah.
Of course, you're currently on the 2. What can you tell us about the, the Innoviz three?
So I think the justification of Innoviz's existence is always to bring the next generation, always to innovate, always to progress. There is a lot to be done in the LiDARs, at least in our architecture, in order to improve performance. We are always seeking to improve performance on one hand, but on the other hand, to see to it that the price and the cost goes down. We did it when we moved from the Innoviz one, the first-generation product, to the Innoviz two. We reduced the BOM cost by 70% and improved the performance by a factor of 3.0. This trend should continue in Innoviz three. Better performance in terms of range, resolution, to some extent field of view, better optics, better electronics.
On the other hand, see to it that the cost structure gets improved in order to serve a wider car range for the industry. Not only, again, not only the high-end and the mid-range, but slowly going down to more popular models.
Is Innoviz three targeted to potentially penetrate like L2 plus applications, or is it more of like still L3, L4, but perhaps to your point, a bit of a higher take rate or attach rate on vehicle price points?
Eventually, yeah. Level two or level two plus doesn't necessarily require a LiDAR, but I guess if the price point is relevant, it might serve also, level two plus, let's call it. I believe at the end of the day, level three, in order to have level three more abundant in cars, in order to cover the whole range of the 90 million cars that are being sold every year, you need to have a solution that is more cost-effective. At the end of the day, the consumer is paying for it. There is a limited amount of money that he's willing to pay for these features, even though he's looking for these features. I believe that Innoviz three can serve a wider range of these vehicles.
Perfect. Maybe just to kind of back up and kind of summarize, what are your goals in the next six to eight months for the company? What would be kind of a successful outcome for the company?
Two. I would say two main goals. A, to win more programs, that we, again, we have a rich pipeline. The whole point is winning and bringing in more and more programs as we did last year. We do want to see additional wins up until the end of the year. We reiterated our guidance in our last earnings, bringing one to three additional programs. This is one. The second one is more internal, to have the production line mature and having good units come out of this production line, complete the qualification process in order to be SOP ready. These are the two. More clients, more capacity.
Let me talk about the second goal actually a little bit more. Maybe walk us through what it takes, right? You know, you often, we often talk about technology and LiDAR architecture, but ultimately, there's so much as a tier one it takes to actually bring something into auto production. Maybe talk about what you're working on there next.
Yeah. So one of our secret products is actually the production line, because we design the process. We design some of the machinery, obviously not the standard processes. The SMT electronics, this is all standard. You do not need anything for that. For the optics and the mechanics, you need to design machines that will assemble the LiDAR. You need to have the testers to test each LiDAR. Again, we need to meet automotive-grade standards. You have to have special testers and test each LiDAR to meet. This is something that we have done internally, on our NPI line and have made these processes, and special machinery and testers ready. Once we got to a maturity level we felt comfortable with, we migrated the line into Fabrinet. It is now being ramped up.
Hopefully, in the next very few months, we will see units come, first units come out of this line. This is very important to control in order to eventually reach the capacity, but also the price point because having an effective, efficient process with the right yields eventually will secure the price point that you offered your clients and promised your clients, in the right quality, obviously. That's okay.
That's very important. I think we're just about out of time. So Adel, thank you so much. Great conversation.
Thank you.
Learned a lot as always. Thank you, everybody, for being here and participating. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.