Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Apr 9, 2021

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by for JinkoSolar Holding Corporation Limited's 4th Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the management's prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session. As a reminder, today's conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the meeting over to your host for today's call to Ms. Ripple Zhang, JinkoSolar's Investor Relations Manager. Please proceed, Ripple. Thank you, operator. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today for JinkoSolar's 4th quarter 2020 earnings conference call. The company's results were released earlier today and available on the company's IR website at www.jinkosolar.com as well as our newswire services. We have also provided a supplemental presentation for today's earnings call, which can also be found on the IR website. On the call today from JinkoSolar are Mr. Li Xiande, Chairman of the Board of Directors and Chief Executive Officer of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited Mr. Charlie Cao, Chief Financial Officer of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited and Mr. Janet Liang, Chief Marketing Officer of JinkoSolar Company Limited. Mr. Li will discuss JinkoSolar's business operations and the company highlights, followed by Mr. Miao, who will talk about the sales and marketing and then Mr. Cao who will go through the financials. They will all be available to answer your questions during the Q and A session that follows. Please note that today's discussion will contain forward looking statements made under the Safe Harbor provisions of the U. S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward looking statements involve inherent risks and uncertainties. As such, our future results may be materially different from the views expressed today. Further information regarding this and other risks is included in JinkoSolar's public filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. JinkoSolar does not Any obligation to update any forward looking statements, except as required under the applicable law. It's now my pleasure to introduce Mr. Li Please go ahead, Mr. Li. 2020 was a very challenging year for the solar industry, but it kept its momentum for strong growth despite the year being shrouded In uncertainty as we went through the COVID-nineteen pandemic globally scale, although demand for solar installation was affected and we experienced the domino effect of the global economic slowdown and went through some of the lowest points. We were still able to recover rapidly as restrictions eased in major markets. In the second half of twenty twenty, Shortages of polysilicon and solar glass, resin shipping costs and the appreciation of rmb, together with the impact of COVID-nineteen, Due to significant volatility is the industrial value chain. In a year full of extreme challenges, we continued relentlessly to optimize cost through technical innovation and improved process. Gross margin in the 4th quarter were within our expectations, and both revenues and shipments for the full year recorded significant growth compared with 2019. Meanwhile, our brand and global distribution channels further demonstrated our strong advantages and resilience during market volatility, and we were able to actually increase market share and solidify our leading status in the global PV industry. Our solar module shipments during the quarter and for the full year 2020 both hit historical highs. As of the end of 2020, our accumulated module shipments reached 70 gigawatts, making JinkoSolar the world's largest CV manufacturer. We expect our shipment to sustain a growth rate of over 30% in 2021. As the global economy continued to face unprecedented impact from the COVID-nineteen crisis. The solar industry has shown solid resilience against the pandemic and achieved rapid recovery amidst positive news and heightened enthusiasm for clean energy. In 2020, the performance of the global solar market exceeded expectations with newly added installations worldwide of approximately 134 gigawatts, an increase of 22% year over year compared with 2019. During the pandemic, governments introduced stimulus packages, which ushered In a wave of new opportunities for renewable energy to develop across the global industry chain, economic stimulus often leads to large scale capital investments. These investments will most likely determine the direction of the economy economic recovery now and for decades to come. More than 170 countries in the world have made specific policy objectives to encourage the development of renewable energy, a unified move that has not only boosted the industry, that made the move to clean energy solutions unstoppable. For the Chinese market, which accounts for about onethree of the world's total new PV installations, The pledge to reach the peak of carbon dioxide emissions by 2,030 and carbon neutrality by 2,060 cover both considerations for energy safety and economic development by adopting supportive policies and Measures in China's near term decarbonization plans in order to Electricity generation from fossil fuel to renewable energies as the primary source. China has been accelerating the application of new technologies and the reform of the electricity system. Meanwhile, grid parity worldwide has brought rapid development to improve distributed photovoltaic generation and energy storage systems Following the proliferation of clean energy globally, the solar industry will continue rolling out its ambitious plans and leveraging all opportunities. So we are in for strong growth momentum over the next few years. Since the Q4 of 2020, mismatch between supply and demand drove up the price of polysilicon caused by the relatively long capacity expansion circle for polysilicon production and volatile short term market sentiment, At the same time, with the price increases of bulk commodities, higher production costs were passed down The industrial value chain, which resulted in significant price increases in modules. In response, some investors in solar power generation have accepted lower yields. However, prices in each upstream and downstream segment continue to fluctuate, and we predict will do so into the Q2 of this year since installations are still likely to increase and the supply is sufficient in most segments of the supply chain. We anticipate that demand for modules will revive once market crisis stabilized. While there are still supply shortages, there is enough polysilicon to support over 180 gigawatts for module production. This will help balance demand with supply in the year. We remain optimistic about global installation levels in 2021. The continuous volatility in the Trio Value Chain further highlighted the resilience to risk of integrated manufacturers. Meanwhile, economic uncertainties continued to concentrate key players and heightened competition for survival of the fittest and rewarded highly adoptive companies to gain more market share. We closely monitored market trends, adjusted with flexibility each link of the production process and continuously optimize our supply chain management throughout our network and partners. Firstly, we signed long term agreements with material suppliers to secure the steady supply of core materials. Secondly, we continued to build symbiotic partnership along upstream and downstream to share resources, especially for segments with more severe supply shortages and actively established clusters forming an industrial ecosystem. In addition, we maintain flexible tracking and storage of alternative technologies and materials to minimize market risk caused by supply chain volatility. As the solar enters the era of grid parity around the globe. JinkoSolar continues to expand successfully with more business scenarios and business models, leveraging our brand reputation built on years of global marketing and excellent service. We have established the gained foothold to build specific, standardized and industrialized energy storage development models in 8 major regions worldwide. At present, we have shipped our energy storage products to the Middle East and Africa, and we'll launch products specially designed for the U. S. And Japanese markets in the second half of twenty twenty one. Meanwhile, our business in the global distribution market is showing a rapid upward trend, and our products for BIPV systems have been installed in a number of commercial real estate projects in China. JinkoSolar's renowned brand and expert teams continue to drive the successful execution of our business from stable supplies of global customers to localized after sale services that guarantees the reliability and the consistency of our products and services. JinkoSolar is committed to promoting the acceleration of carbon neutrality through product innovation and operating excellence. Over the next 1 or 2 years, our technical goal is to reach the highest laboratory efficiency of 25.5 percent for the MTech monocrystalline silicon solar cell and 29% for the multi junction solar cell. So far, our new generation Tiger Pro flagship products have accumulated orders of over 10 gigawatt. TigerPro provides the best match between maturity of the industry and high efficiency large area products. We expect the Taiga Pro service to account for 40% to 50% of our total shipments this year. In addition, we will continue to leverage our leading technical innovation capabilities to promote the development of safe and highly efficient Energy Systems. In response to increasing demand of this space, we have been actively deploying solutions for the solar plus industries such as technical storage for photovoltaic, hydrogen production and integrated PV storage smart system. We remain bullish on the mid- to long term growth of the solar market space and continue to invest in new capacity with technical and cost competitiveness, taking into consideration multiple factors like technical maturity and stability to meet increasing downstream demand for high efficiency products. We expect our in house annual production capacity of monocincom wafers, high efficiency solar cells and modules to reach 33, 27 and 37 Gigawatts, respectively, by the end of 2021. We expect the proportion of our in house production capabilities to reach over 75% in 2021, which will enable us to become even more resilient to risks and continued volatility of the supply chain and technical upgrades. This long term investment in our business will help to optimize operational efficiency and increased profitability. Before turning over to Gener, I would like to go over our guidance. We expect total solar module shipments to be in the range of 4.5 Gigawatt to 5 Gigawatt for the Q1 of 2021. Total revenue for the Q1 is expected to be in the range of US1.18 billion dollars to US1.3 billion dollars Gross margin for the Q1 is expected to be in the range of 12% to 15%. Based on current estimates, the full 2021 shipments, including wafer, sale and modules to be in the range of 25 gigawatts to 30 gigawatts. Thank you, Ms. Li. In the Q4 of 2020, total shipments of solar modules reached 5.8 gigawatts. And for the full year of 2020, Total annual shipments were 18.8 gigawatts. Even though supply and demand remains volatile, we were still able to reach our shipment target for the full year 2020. Our modules were shifted to nearly 160 recent regions in the world as our overseas markets remain our main shipment destinations with the Asia Pacific, U. S. And Europe accounting for the major portion. Shipments in Asia Pacific achieved a significant growth of over 60% in C20. During the Q4, we strategically increased the portion of shipments to emerging markets in order to capture growth opportunities as this economy is gradually recovered from the pandemic. Our well recognized solar brand global network of localized real time customer service, quality products and advanced technology were major assets that helped mitigate risks and increase our global market share in 2020. Shipments of high efficiency model crystalline products increased significantly from 74% in 2019 to nearly 100% in 2020. In May 2020, We launched a new generation of flagship products for the Tiger Pro Series, leading the industry to fully enter the era of ultra high power efficiency above 500 watt peak. As technology innovation continues to accelerate products iterations, We estimate that shipments of Tiger Pro modules will reach 40% to 50% of total shipment in 2021, which will greatly reduced the LCOE for the customers under same conditions. Recently, we launched a new ultra high efficiency TaikaPro product especially designed for distributed DG market and well suited for a wide range of distributed scenarios, including industrial commercial rooftops and residential rooftops. In the future, we will continue to launch premium PV products and diversified solutions and continue to expand our brand influence in the field of distributed generation segments. In the recent price hikes along the supply chain caused a correlated increase in module prices and pressured downstream installations demand. However, We believe the short term price rise will have relatively limited impact on demand following China's Placed to achieve peak carbon emission by 2,030 and carbon neutrality by 2,060, state owned engine prices were assigned as mandatory target for renewable energy installation. According to client feedback, Several major Chinese SOE investors have already lowered yield target for the power generation projects, bringing strong installation expectations for the downstream market. We believe that newly added PV installation We will sustain significant growth momentum in 2021. In the mid to long term, global transaction to clean energy will become irresistible As more and more countries launch policy and the goal to cut carbon emissions, demand side incentives are expected to partially offset cost pressure. The solar industry will continue its strong growth momentum. Next, I will detail I will detail each region's market trend. In China, 2021 is the 1st year of the 14th 5 year plan, and it is also the 1st year for the solar industry, except the residential sector, to enter into the era of grid parity without In one aspect, according to the new 2021 policy draft, projects should be won through bidding. Otherwise, new installation would be approved as a result of reductions of subsidies on existing projects. This will lead to lower price projects going forward and increased solar generation capacity will further drive down the cost of solar power. Furthermore, because delayed projects not connected to the grid by June 30 will lose subsidies. This will account for the most of the connections to the grid this year, including residential projects worth 10 gigawatt. The Chinese market is expected to achieve a growth rate of 25% year over year, a new installation reaching 55 gigawatt level in 2021. Average annual installations during the 14th 5 year plan is expected According to the latest report of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, New solar installation capacity in the U. S. Reached a record high of 16.5 gigawatt in 2020. The solar industry showed tenacious vitality in the midst of the pandemic's doom and gloom atmosphere and economic contraction. President Biden has announced that U. S. Will rejoin the Paris Agreement and the House of Representatives has reintroduced the Green Act, a critical view that includes a 5 year extension of solar investment tax credit. The economic recovery policy in the post COVID era and accelerating decarbonization of the U. S. Energy system will further enhance the attractiveness of solar power and energy efficiency. In 2021, newly added solar installations are expected to 20 gigawatts for the first time. Compared with other renewable energy sources, the price of solar power in the U. S. Is very competitive And the market competition is more rational because of its unique supply demand relationship and the market entry rule. We are confident In 2020, our shipments in Asia Pacific It reached the historical high with Vietnam contributing the largest growth in the shipments. Affected by expiration of old FIT projects, Japan rushed to install a large number of projects in September 2020. As the economic advantage of rooftop projects continue to grow in Japan, rooftop solar power generation is expected to replace utility scale projects and become the main source of the newly added power generation Affected by some adverse factors, including the pandemic and excessively high electricity costs, new installations in India experienced a decline. However, it is worth mentioning that Ministry of New and Renewable Energy will post tariff of 40% 25% on solar modules and sales respectively in from April 2022. This move is expected to stimulate a new round of installation rush before the deadline. Demand in other markets in the region such as Australia is expected to remain stable. According to the European market outlook for the solar power 2020 to 2020 4 published by Solar Power Europe. The European market reached 18.7 gigawatt of newly installed solar power, producing a double digit growth of 11% in 2020, the highest growth rate since 2011. In terms of market performance, the new Renewable Energy Source Act will benefit the investment of rooftop installation in Germany. The long established leader in solar generation and the residential energy storage is expected to become another emerging growth driver. The spotlight was on Spain in 2020 as the country led Europe's subsidy free market growth and became the 3rd largest solar market in Europe. In January 2021, Span awarded a total of over 3 gigawatts solar and wind power capacity in the 1st renewable energy auction held since 2017, with the lowest LCOE for solar at US1.8 dollars per kilowatt hour. In addition, solar market in Netherlands, Poland and France all maintained solid momentum. We remain bullish on the long term development of the European market. Most countries in emerging markets like Latin America and the Middle East are actively promoting solar power projects. Applications for solar power generation has been extensive and extensive and the major driving force for solar power development in emerging markets. Brazil's state owned Energy Research Office recently announced that it has registered a total of nearly 67 Gigawatts of Renewable Energy Project for auction in June this year, including 1050 solar projects with a total capacity of over 41 gigawatts. So Dubai Supreme Council of Energy recently announced a significant increase in renewable energy share of Dubai's total energy mix. Following a strong recovery from the severe impact of pandemic, emerging markets are expected to become a powerful contributor to the development of the global PV industry. We see solar generation coming widely popular in more and more countries. And the growth of the global solar market will no longer rely on single or dominant market like the U. S, Europe or India, and we will continue to diversify. The general trend of the global clean energy transition will open up a new growth cycle for solar plus energy storage projects to achieve cost effective integration of flexible resources in smart distribution grids. At present, We have developed diversified solutions for our residential, C and I and the utility customers in our major markets around the world. We will cooperate with leading companies in the energy storage supply chain to accelerate deployment to the entire energy storage business chain. Recently, we won overall high achievers award in the 2020 Photovoltaic Module Index report published by the Renewable Energy Testing Center. Our high performance across 3 essential indicator categories reliability, performance and the quality demonstrated our commitment to product excellence. As the world's 1st global solar manufacturer to join RE100, JinkoSolar was the 1st company in the industry to sign the global framework principles for decarbonizing heavy industry. In 2021, we will strengthen our distribution channels, expand our network value added customer service and bring greater value to our global customers with high quality, reliable modules and premium services. With that, I will turn it over to Charlie. Thank you, Taylor. In the Q4, driving cost of raw materials and shipping costs combined with RMB appreciation put pressure on our profitability. Gross margin was 16% or 14.3% if excluding the reversal benefit co AD and CVD in line with our guidance. Our long term competitive advantage in branding and Distribution channels and demand for our high increasing products and customer services have helped to partially offset pressures from upstream price volatility as costs along the supply chain stabilize Our highly efficient production capacity release and better integration will continue to give us a competitive edge in the industry. Let's go into more details about the quarter now. Total revenue was US1.4 billion dollars a decrease of 1.1% year over year. Gross margin was 16% compared to 17% in the Q3 of 2018 and 18.2% in the Q4 of 2019. Excluding the ADCVD reversal benefit. Gross margin was 14.3% in line with our previous guidance. Total operating expenses in Q4 were US220 $1,000,000 an increase of 51% Sequentially and an increase of 26% year over year. The sequential and year over year increase was mainly attributable to an increase in disposal and impairment losses on impairments as a result of Company's upgrade of production lines. Total operating expenses accounted for 15% of total revenues in the Q4 of 2020 compared to 10.8% in the Q3 of 2020 and 11 0.9% in the Q4 of 2019. Operating margin was 0.8% in Q4 compared to 6.2% In Q3 and 6.2 percent in Q4 last year. EBITDA was US100 $1,000,000 compared to US144 $1,000,000 in Q3. Non GAAP net income was US5.1 million dollars a decrease of 92% year over year, which translates into non GAAP diluted earnings per ADS of $0.11 taking loss on the change in the current vendor convertible notes and the co option Due to the sharp increase in stock price of company in Q4, GAAP net loss was US57 $1,000,000 I'll brief you on our 24 year financial results. 2020 was dramatically stronger compared with 2019. Total solar module shipments were 18.8 gigawatts, up 31 Year over year. Total revenues were US5.4 billion dollars up 18% year over year, Benefited from an increase in shipment of solar modules and production volumes of our integrated high increasing capacity as well as Cost reduction from company's industry leading integrated cost structures. Gross profit for the full year was US945 $1,000,000 an increase of 13.6% year over year. Gross margin was 17 point 6% compared to 18.3% in 2019. Excluding the AD CBD reversal benefit, Gross margin was 17% flat with 2019. Operating margin for the full year 2020 was 5.1% compared to 5.8% for the full year 2019. Operating expenses for 12.5 percent of total revenues in 2020 flat with 2019. EBITDA was US463 $1,000,000 compared to US376 $1,000,000 in 2019. Net debt to EBITDA ratio was 3.4 times. Non GAAP net income was US147 $1,000,000 compared to US139 $1,000,000 in 2019. This translates into non GAAP basic Diluted earnings per ADS of $0.0328 Moving to the balance sheet, at the end of 4th quarter, Our balance of cash and cash equivalents were US1.2 billion dollars compared to US9 US43 $1,000,000 by the end of Q3 and our cash levels significantly improved. Our turnover days improved to 50 days compared to 61 days in Q3. Inventory turnover days for 97 days flat with the Q3. Total debt was US2.8 billion dollars compared to US2.5 billion dollars at the end of Q3 and US1.9 billion dollars by the end of last year, in which US150 $1,000,000 was related to international solar projects. Net debt was US1.5 billion dollars compared to US1.59 billion dollars 3rd quarter and US1 $1,000,000,000 by the end of last year. In September 2020, we announced our plan to less our principal operating subsidiaries Jiangxi JinkoS on the store market in China. By the end of October 2020, Jiangxi JinkoS completed an equity financing of RMB3.1. This process is progressing smoothly. This concludes our prepared remarks. We're now happy to take your questions. Operator, please proceed. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. Your first question is from Philip Shen, who's from ROTH Capital Partners. Your line is now open Philip. Please go ahead. Hi, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions. With Q1 over now, can you talk About what you see for pricing in Q2 as well as shipments and margins. I know you have not provided official guidance, But any color on the Q2 outlook would be very helpful. Thanks. Hey, it's Philip. From the pricing perspective, the input cost continued to be relatively high given particularly the polysilicon, the supply bottleneck. And we are seeing that we balance negotiation with our customers And the module price globally including China are on the I think We are trying to go up to absorb to reflect the input cost, the impact. So we didn't give the guidance of 2nd quarter, but I think overall the gross margin To be relatively stable throughout the first half year, but we are expecting some positive factors like The solar glasses prices, the market price is down. The RMB, the depreciation Looks like it's positive and to be to offset some input cost pressure from specifically the polysilicon impact. But I think It's a little bit impact on the global demand from the margin perspective because of the high input cost. And I think most of the Tier 1 companies like to balance the shipments versus The module shipments versus the high interest cost. And so I think the shipments, we are not expecting the Tier one companies with 2nd quarter and quarter by quarter shipments will have significant increase. Okay. Thanks, Charles. So And then Yes. So, I think hold on. Go ahead, John. This is John. So, yes, regarding the Shipment, I think you might have noticed our disclosure of the shipment targets includes a total shipment instead of module only shipment, which reflecting our strategic flexibilities because right now, we see the unbalanced demand and supply from upper street So that's why like Charlie what Charlie was just saying, we our shipment target are still in line with But we are keeping some flexibilities between wafer cell and modules in order to mitigated the market risk and trying to optimize our margins? Thanks, Gener. I did notice that and, was wondering if you could share a little bit more on that Gener specifically How much wafer only sales or cell only sales could we see, so that we can get to a more accurate module only or module shipments in 2021? Thanks. We don't have that number yet because we are keeping that flexibilities to make sure that we can adapt our strategy to the current polysilicon price hike. That's why we keep that as a flexible part. But In general, we are still taking module as our main business, but partially of our shipments will be wafer or cell, it depends on the margin on the spot market. Okay, thanks. One other question for me. You guys added, I think, 16 gigawatts or plan to upsell capacity by the end of this year. Can you give us a little bit more color on that strategy around the capacity expansion and the focus on why You're investing so much in so. And then, help us with the CapEx for 2020 total and then what you expect it to be in 2021? And how much do you expect that to be from partner contributions in terms of the CapEx? Thanks. The CapEx in 2021, it's in our range of US1 $1,000,000,000 to US1.2 billion dollars reflecting our investment on the Dramatically on the solar sale as well as the wafer stage. And for the strategy of solar sale, It's reflecting our in the couple in the recent 2 or 3 years, we didn't increase our solar cell capacities because we think the technology is not so Sure, in the last 2 or 3 years. And now the market is shifting to the bigger size, high increasing and type the solar cell technology. And we believe it's a time to increase our solar cell Capacity and increase our integration levels. And that is why we increased a little bit more on the solar cell capacity in 2021. Great. And when the 2020 CapEx, Charlie? 2020, I didn't have the exact number, but I think it's roughly USD 5,000,000,000 Sorry, it's US500 $1,000,000 Okay, great. Thank you. I'll pass it on. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. Your next question is from Brian, who's from Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open, Brian. Please go ahead. Hi, guys. Thank you for taking the question. I have a couple of questions Hello? Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Your voice is breaking, right? Is it better now? Yes, yes. It's better. Please go ahead. Yes, thank you for the questions. This is Grace on for Brian. I have a couple of questions further. Just wonder how far in advance are you booked for modules? And is there a flexibility in pricing? Or will you not able to raise pricing until like the second half of twenty twenty one? Thanks. Thank I think for the module price, one side we have firm commitment and for the contract we signed, But also we always keep a portion of our capacities to the spot market to adapt ourselves to the volatile market changes. So for the contract signed part, we are doing our best to respect the contract, the legal commitment. But we since we have a long term partnership with many customers for years, so We are still talking to many of them, trying to get their, let's say, help and flexibilities to work together to face the current challenges in the market. So that's on progress. Does that answer your question? Yes, yes. Thank you. And how far are you booked for the module for 2021? I think our order book are more than half booked, but still we are some of them are with firm commitment. Some of them are with flexibilities with framework contract only. So Yes. Okay, great. Thanks for the color. I guess my second question Now that there are more details around the China 14 to 5 year plan, can you talk about expectations for like So I just wonder how you're thinking about the DRAM picture here like in terms of like what could drive upside or downside? Sorry, can you repeat that? What's the upside on that side? For what? For China demand, what could drive like upside or downside? Yes. So I think right now in short term, we did face some challenges because of the unbalanced growth of the capacities like our pre marked earnings speech. The growth of upper stream capacity is much slower than the expansion of the downstream demand. So there is it caused short term turbulence and volatile market situations right now. But in long term, we are still a believer for the long term growth of the market, including China market and other markets as well because we see a very ambitious target announced by China government and We have accepted a very clear signal from our downstream customers about ambitions of pipelines in China. So the current challenge is the short term market and balance the supply and demand happened in upper stream, but we expect that it could be resolved in the next, let's say, mid term, short term or mid term because the China let's say, China grid parity projects always got a long time to after the So I think, yes, the market will adapt itself based on the market principles and The China market together with the global market demand will continue to be very strong and at high speed growth. Okay. Thanks for the color. And if I can squeeze in one more. I just wonder how should we Think about like the OpEx in 2021, should we think about like as a percentage of sale like around 12% to 11%. And how should we think about the gross margin in the second half of twenty twenty one versus the first half? The gross margin and we are expecting some more competitions among Tier 1 Companies. And while the bottleneck is still the materials, so we are expecting The second half year with more debottleneck for the materials And the costs are expecting to be improved compared to the first half year, And we have more possibilities and with the integration level increase with the department of The key materials and to improve our gross margin in the second half year. Pardon the interruption, Grace, are you still there? We lost you for a minute there. Yes, yes. Thanks for the color. And OpEx, how should we think about the OpEx? Is it do We expect to still around return to like a normal kind of like normal range like 11% to 12% of the sales, Yes. It's still in the right range, 11% to 12% against the total revenue. Thank you. Your next question is from Philip, who has a follow-up question, who is from ROTH Capital Partners. Please go ahead. Hi, everyone. Thank you for taking my follow ups. One of the questions I had was around And given where pricing is and the dynamic thereof, Pricing continued to go higher. I was wondering if you could share, how much polysilicon you've secured for 2021, possibly in metric So, Phil, I think from the supply side, we have secured enough polysilicon supply, But the challenge is because of this market situation, all those secured polysilicon Supply is always up to the market condition. So that's a big pressure or is a big challenge for everyone. But currently it's extremely almost mission impossible to secure a long term polysilicon pricing. So We secured the volume. I think it's enough. But from the pricing wise, it's still always up to And what's your view, Genera, as to when that pricing can become I think Tonwei has some capacity coming online at the end of this year. Do you think we have to wait until Q4? Or is there and if we get relief Before that, what causes that relief? We think it will relieve us It won't change overnight, but gradually, I think that the pressure will be released. The challenge here right now is the demand side is very, very hot right now. So that's why the upper stream is always Holding their expectations that the demand will support the price. So It will in short term, we are still expecting a volatile market in the up and down. But in long run, like you said, the pressure will release step by step and follow the market principles. Okay. And then as it relates to Q2 shipments, We talked about this earlier, Gener. But when I look at Q1 relative to what we forecasted, the Q1 levels are what you guided to were lower. For Q2, should we expect something similar meaning is if you think back to what you Expected to do in Q2 back at the end of last year. Do you expect the shipments to be lower in Q2 now versus And because the raw material outlook is so challenging and as a result your customers and you are pushing out orders. So are you do you expect to build less in Q2 than you previously hadn't I think, Phil, the principle we are holding in the company is to keeping the module capacity more flexible than others, Right. So our wafer and the cells are in the full rent. And for the module side, we are holding more flexibilities up to the What we say, right, the margins and the market conditions. That's why the shipment contains all three segments we have. So I think we will hold the same principle for Q2 as well. So number wise, I don't think it's the right time to talk about it, and maybe we can talk about it next Okay. All right. Appreciate that. And then in terms of the China listing, Charlie, I know you mentioned some details on that. I was wondering if you could share if there's what's the potential for the China listing to be in Q3 or Q4 of this year? Is it meaningful or is They're more likely in the early part of 2020 I'm sorry 2022. I know you guys have talked about perhaps taking a 2 year process, but I wanted to see if the others are going this year like Daco and then I think Canadian Solar Has a chance of getting out there this year. I'm thinking you guys have a chance to get there this year as well, China listing, but wanted to Okay. For China investing, we have separate team working on This process is more complicated compared to the U. S. Listing. And the process is Still, it's on track and everything is very smooth, and we're expecting to reach some significant milestone in the next couple of months and we will keep the market in progress. And in terms of timetable, How long we will get the China listing done? It's really out of a lot of process is out of the Company's controls and particularly from the typically, there's a couple of rounds of Submitting and response, different comments from the regulators. And the gliders, they have different tendencies to control the total volume of So it's from the company perspective, we try to drive the process more as quick as possible and more efficiently. But some of the process, it's depending on from the government regulators' perspective. Okay. Thanks very much for the follow questions. I'll pass it on. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. Our next question is from Johnny Chen, who's from Greencore Capital. Your line is now open, Johnny. Please Thank you for taking my question. And I have two questions for you. So firstly, we know that the company has been developing on type solar cell technology, especially in Topcon. So would you please elaborate a little more on the capacity, plan and the efficiency and the success rate. And my second question Is there any possibility that the company develop another type Technology, we call H3T. Thank you. Okay. We build up our R and D capabilities on the end type couple of years. And I think 2019 starting from 2019, we have built around 800 megawatts top gun based capacities. The efficiencies have been reached to roughly 24%. And now this year we are building As well as we have flexibility to upgrade or quickly upgrade to the top gun based to acknowledge very quickly. And in terms of HDAT, we still believe No, it's not cost effective at this stage and we have the R and D and the technology Available and continue to watch out the maturities, particularly from the equipment perspective, There's no material perspective. So we don't have plans to roll out the large size SL Thank you. Thank you. I have a follow-up. Would you please I want to make sure that I hear you right. So what is your capacity expansion plan for Topcon again this year in 2021? Well, We did not plan to increase our top capacity, but just to emphasize, The new capacity, all the capacities are very easy and convertible and we have flexibility And the available room to upgrade to the top Yes. So the capacity expansion is based on the part time Technology, right? Yes, you're right. P time. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. That's all for me. Thank you. Thank you. Your next question is from Kim Pao, who's from Broxim. Your line is now open, Kim. Please go ahead. Hi. Can you hear me? Hello. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I have a couple of questions. One is, You mentioned in your opening remarks that SOEs are willing to accept now lower than normal returns with the new solar farm projects. Can you give us a little bit more color on that, like what kind of returns they're willing to accept now? And second, I wanted to my second question, I want to ask a little bit more about Your view as to the current supply demand situation of polysilicon materials. When do we think we would see a return to normal pricing for polysilicon? And also At what level currently, if you were to maintain a margin from your end of let's say 2020's normal operating margin. What kind of policy can price would you need to actually get there? Thank you. So regarding Question about Chinese SOEs IR expectations. Actually, I think that there are a lot of Chinese SOE ICPs who has set up very ambitious renewable targets for this new 5 years plan. And according to what we have heard from the market, I think their IRR expectations has been lowered from previously around 8% to 10% to right now around 6% to 8%. So I think that's a Very big, let's say, jump or let's say, a big decline in order to pump up more renewable projects in Renewable Sector, which gives a lot of hopes and ambitious targets for the whole industry, especially in China. Regarding your second question about supply demand relationship, especially for polysilicon, I think I In the previous question to Phil, we have provided our views that for the polysilicon, it's Because of the tension of the polysilicon supply is mainly driven by the unbalanced The growth or expansions between upstream and downstream because the ramping up phase for the upstream is much, much lower than downstream. That's mainly the reason. And for the price range or how much When it will go back to so called, let's say, 2020 level, it depends on the supply and demand relationship as well. So that's why we see in short term, our view is the volatile upper stream The volatile market is driven by the shortage of the polysilicon or the upper stream material will continue in the short term. But in mid and long term, we deeply believe the market principles, which will automatically balance The supply demand across the different sector in this industry, and we believe in long run, renewable is still a very promising industry. Hopefully, that answers your question. Can I have a follow-up? Sure. Hello? Hello? Yes. Go ahead. Okay. I'm just thinking so like in terms of time, given the fact that there are not that much new supply for polysilicon coming on stream until towards the end of the year. Do you think we should be able to reach some kind of when you say mid to long term, do you think we should be able to reach a more reasonable for polysilicon price and margin levels for us as a result towards the end of the year? Well, firstly, about the polysilicon, I think There are capacities starting wrapping up and the new capacity start to release the polysilicon materials to the market. It's just a step by step. It won't be it won't happen overnight. So I think you can look into the main polysilicon manufacturers ramping up. I think that there's a lot of And regarding your margins question, I think the margins will follow the market principle as well, right? So It will go up and down. For example, recently, the solar glass price has dropped significantly, which helped the module makers more or less, say, ease the pressure from the upper stream a little bit. So it happens. Just we prefer to look into this Thank you. Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our conference call for today. Thank you all for your participation. You may all now disconnect.