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Earnings Call: Q2 2021

May 5, 2021

Operator

Hello, and welcome to the Kulicke and Soffa 2021 Second Fiscal Quarter Results Conference Call and Webcast. At this time, all participants are in listen only mode. If anyone should require operator assistance, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. A question- and- answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Joe Elgindy, Senior Director, Investor Relations and Strategic Initiatives. Joe, please go ahead.

Joe Elgindy
Senior Director of Investor Relations and Strategic Initiatives, Kulicke and Soffa

Thank you. Welcome everyone to Kulicke and Soffa Fiscal Second Quarter 2021 Conference Call. Joining us on today's call is Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer. For those of you who have not received a copy of today's results, the release as well as the supplemental earnings presentation are both available in the investor relations section of our website at investor.kns.com. In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Our actual results and financial condition may differ materially from what is indicated in those forward-looking statements.

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent SEC filings, specifically the 10-K for the year ended October 3rd, 2020, and the 8-K filed yesterday. With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Thank you, Joe. In addition to our normal quarterly update during today's call, I will also share our perspective on the underlying drivers contributing to the global semiconductor shortage, clarify which drivers are expected to be transitional versus secular, and also highlight recent customer wins and progress within our growing portfolio. Before addressing these items, I would like to first discuss our ongoing ESG focus. As we continue progress on this evolving ESG journey, we have continued to expand our reported metrics while ensuring we are organizationally prepared to meet our future goals.

During the March quarter, we issued our fifth annual sustainability report, a 75-page document that tracks our accomplishments in addressing environmental, social, and governance topics. In addition, I am pleased to report that we have recently brought on dedicated staff to support our global Diversity and Inclusion initiative. We look forward to sharing more information in the future.

Turning to our current business condition, we would like to share our perspective on the underlying demand driver positively impacting our business today. At a high level, we see two transitional drivers and several additional and meaningful secular drivers that are expected to continue positively impacting demand for our products and solutions over the long term. The two transitional drivers stem from dramatic capital equipment underinvestment in fiscal year 2019 and 2020, and also the incremental end market demand due to work and play from home, affecting applications such as PC and gaming. While we expect these drivers to be transitional, demand for our new core products and also capacity utilization of our installed base remain at a very high level. This data point gives us confidence that these transitional drivers are likely to extend into fiscal year 2022.

The most comparable period of underinvestment in the past was during 2008 and 2009, which then led to an extended period of strong demand. Addition to these two transitional driver, I would like to clearly highlight the more material and the secular long-term trend, such as the anticipated data explosion supported by global 5G, IoT, and the artificial intelligence adoption. The electric and autonomous vehicle transitions, also the increasing capital intensity needed to support next generation, higher density semiconductor assembly requirements. These new applications are expected to create additional layer of demand, structurally supporting the above average semiconductor growth over the coming years. Specifically for K&S, we are also addressing the increasing capital intensity needs within our core server market while we are actively expanding our core market reach. As I discussed last quarter, this new capital intensity dynamic is being driven by growing demand for multi-chip applications.

Placing several dies into one semiconductor package provide an effective high-density assembly solution that support smaller form factor, feature-rich, connected consumer electronics. Higher density packages such as a System in Package, multi-chip modules, and a heterogeneous assembly technique are market-ready solution to mitigate the well-known challenge of two-dimensional node shrink. Today, we estimate approximately 40% of wire bond bonder shipments are supporting multi-die assembly. This rate has effectively doubled in the past years, highlighting our direct participation supporting more complex assembly. Added complexity create the need for more advanced assembly solution, which extend our value proposition within this core surface market. On average, multi-die package consist of approximately four individual die.

Looking ahead, we expect this to be beginning of a long-term trend and anticipate a percentage of bonder supporting multi-die applications to grow along with the average number of die per package, creating a new and a significant growth driver to our large and dominant core business. An increasing number of die per package increase the number of interconnect per package, which in turn increase the capital intensity of the assembly market. Similar to increasing complexity we are experiencing within our core market. Multi-die packaging is picking the momentum for the leading-edge logic, memory, and optical applications. We continue to anticipate adoption will increase over the longer term, driven by the need to reduce design cost, while enhancing power efficiency and the performance in a post-Moore's Law production environment.

We are very well prepared to support customers through this transition. I'm pleased to announce that we have recently won several qualification at the top OSATs, IDMs, and the foundries supporting complex assembly of leading-edge applications, enabling next-generation logic, memory, and image sensing capabilities. As a reminder, we are participating in this fundamental assembly change at the leading-edge through four competitive systems. The APAMA thermo-compression system, the Katalyst high-accuracy flip-chip system, the LITEQ lithography system, and our hybrid system-in-package solution, which is uniquely positioned to support high-speed placement for high-density multi-chip, 3D chip applications. Over the coming quarters, we are extremely focused on expanding our customer engagement. Expect this recent qualification win will further enhance our product diversification and the long-term growth rate. Within Mini-LED, we ship over 130 PIXALUX system collectively through the March quarter.

This rapidly growing install base highlights our leadership and the enabling position within this exciting, emerging Mini-LED opportunity. Our execution and the current run rate is on track to achieve this high end of our fiscal 2021 target of $60 million-$80 million. We also anticipate market opportunities to broaden in the second half of fiscal year 2022. We have a clear leadership position in this market and have materially enhanced our technical competency since releasing PIXALUX in fiscal 2019. Our development initiative remain on track as we actively extend our existing competitive position and the market presence. Mini-LED technology is expected to penetrate the broad display market, addressing consumer, IT, and the commercial applications. We remain very engaged with the prospective customers and expect market adoption to accelerate through our fiscal 2022, and a multi-year ramp to continue.

I look forward to sharing additional updates as we expand our portfolio of Mini-LED and the MicroLED solution. Turning to the March quarter's result, we generated $340.2 million of revenue, representing a 27% increase from the December quarter and an over 125% increase from the same period in the prior year. The APS segment increased by over 15% sequentially, driven by higher utilization of the install base. We continue to make ongoing progress to expand our shares within the APS market. Capital equipment represent 85% of overall revenue, and increased by 29% sequentially due to improvement across all of our end markets. Within the March quarter's capital equipment sales, general semiconductor, which supports a broad set of applications such as smartphones and consumer electronics, continue to be very strong and increased 16% sequentially.

As discussed earlier, increasing complexity add an additional layer of demand and a higher growth to this sizable end market. Across our other end market, we saw the largest sequential change within the automotive and the industrial end market, which increased 83% sequentially. These sales are helping to address near-term automotive semiconductor production needs, and also much longer-term production supporting the transition to electrification and autonomous driving. Memory increased by over 60% sequentially. Growth continued to remain relatively soft. We currently see high utilization within the memory market and anticipate further improvements within memory over the coming quarters. LED increased nearly 60%, driven by sequential improvement in both general lighting and advanced LED. For March quarters, we estimate approximately 35% of capital equipment sales supported more complex advanced packaging applications, which highlights the increasing capital intensity of general semiconductor, LED, and the memory market.

During last quarter's earnings call, we guide revenue to be $1.1 billion for the full fiscal year. Despite a very strong demand environment, we anticipate supply chain constraint will limit our production capacity in our second fiscal half. Although both known and unknown supply chain challenge remains, I'm pleased to report that our effort to mitigate recent supply chain constraints strengthen our ability to support customers and improve global semiconductor production capacity. Additionally, as we have aggressively worked on improve the unknown supply chain constraints, our outlook has also improved. For the full fiscal year, we now anticipate revenue to be between $1.3 billion-$1.4 billion, representing a significant increase over our prior guidance of $1.1 billion and an over 100% sequential change from fiscal year 2020. Over the remaining fiscal year, we anticipate some incremental manufacturing and operation expenses as we continue to address these considerable supply chain challenges.

Lester will provide more details shortly. In summary, we are confident current market driver, including 5G, IoT, transition in automotive, and the fundamental change within our core equipment market, increase our value proposition for our customers and the broader industry. Additionally, our progress and execution entering new higher growth market supporting leading edge IC assembly and the Mini-LED and the MicroLED panel assembly adds additional and a meaningful layer of business that further support the inherent leverage in our operating model. I would now like to turn the call over to Lester Wong, who will cover this quarter's financial overview in greater detail. Lester?

Lester Wong
CFO, Kulicke and Soffa

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. As Fusen mentioned, demand for our products and services remained strong in the March quarter with revenue of $340.2 million, up 27% sequentially. We were again able to quickly flex our operational capacity while mitigating supply chain challenges within our control. Gross margins in the March quarter came in at 43.7%, below our target due to the strong growth in equipment, but also additional costs largely related to spot purchases and expediting fees. These incremental fees amounted to $4.9 million during the March quarter. Considering ongoing global supply chain challenges and our strong business outlook, we anticipate these incremental expenses to temporarily continue through the second fiscal half. As demonstrated last quarter, we are now generating a higher level operating margin, which we believe is sustainable and helps to reinforce the longer-term potential of our model.

We generated non-GAAP operating margins of 26.4%, which represents a 410 basis point improvement from the December quarter. Over the coming quarters, we continue to be very focused on cost control, but also on new longer-term growth initiatives within the dramatically changing semiconductor and display markets. Overall, non-GAAP net income came in at $79.4 million or $1.26 of non-GAAP EPS during the March quarter, which highlights the leverage in our model. Considering this operating leverage and traction with our outlook, we expect to generate strong free cash flows over the coming years. Operating expenses in the March quarter came in below our previous guidance due to several favorable items, including foreign exchange gains, credits, and asset sales. Collectively, these favorable items reduced March quarter operating expenses by approximately $4.7 million and are not anticipated to continue nor considered in the June quarter's outlook.

Separately, we previously explained our OpEx model on a GAAP basis, although have adjusted this model to conform to non-GAAP to better align with peers and analyst reporting. On a non-GAAP basis, we expect quarterly operating expenses to represent roughly $48 million of fixed expenses plus 5%-7% of variable expenses tied to revenue. Outside of this adjustment to non-GAAP, this OpEx model remains consistent. Tax expense for the quarter came in at $12.2 million, and we continue to target an 18% long-term effective tax rate. Through fiscal 2021, we continue to anticipate the effective tax rate will come in closer to 15%. Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the March quarter with a total net cash and investment position of $564.3 million, down $12.3 million sequentially, representing $8.92 per diluted share.

This decrease in cash is largely due to an increase in working capital due to the demand environment and also accounts for the Uniqarta acquisition, which was closed during the March quarter. Despite the absolute increase in working capital, we have maintained efficiency. Days of accounts receivable increased slightly from 76 days to 81 days. Days of inventory improved significantly from 77 days to 66 days. Days of accounts payable increased slightly from 55 to 58 days. Similar to last quarter, demand continues to strengthen, although our outlook remains supply chain constrained. Our operational and development teams continue to work aggressively to mitigate supply chain challenges within our control. For the June quarter, we expect revenues to be approximately $400 million ± $20 million.

Gross margins are expected to be approximately 44%, plus or minus 50 basis points, due largely to product mix and additional costs related to spot purchases and expediting fees. Non-GAAP operating expense is expected to be approximately $72 million, ± 2%, and non-GAAP EPS to be $1.35, ± 10%. In summary, demand patterns continue to be very strong, with transitional drivers expected to continue well into fiscal year 2022, and many structural drivers such as big data, 5G, IoT, automotive transitions, and higher density packaging to continue well into the long term. We also anticipate our successful and aggressive market expansion plans will continue to provide new growth opportunities and support a higher, sustainable level of operational leverage. We look forward to sharing additional information regarding these new opportunities over the coming quarters. This concludes our prepared comments. Operator, please open the call for questions.

Operator

Thank you. We'll now be conducting a question- and- answer session. If you'd like to be placed in the question queue, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing star one. One moment please while we poll for questions. Our first question today is coming from Tom Diffely from D.A. Davidson, your line is now live.

Tom Diffely
Analyst, D.A. Davidson

Yeah. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Maybe just start with the health of the end markets and some of the traditional metrics like utilization rates. We hear that lead times for wire bonders may be extending out to upwards of a year right now. I just wanted to hear your view of this huge ramp, and how you protect yourselves against the concern of double ordering.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Tom, let's talk about the first one, is utilization rate? Okay. I think our utilization rate currently is very high, and that's why I think it trigger a lot of capacity buy. Second question to answer you is double booking, right? Actually we check carefully about customer double booking. I think at this moment we feel quite comfortable. If this long wait continue into, say, middle of next year, we might expect maybe a little bit more double booking. At this moment, I think, for our business, we don't think double booking is significant. The third question I think you ask is, the lead time, right? At this moment, actually, I think our lead time is about 10 months. The gating item actually is supply chain bottleneck.

Our engineering team and operation team actually work closely with our supplier partner and make sure we address this supply chain shortage issue and also increase our capacity to meet the demand that customer really need from us. Is any question I haven't answered?

Tom Diffely
Analyst, D.A. Davidson

Okay, great.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Yeah.

Tom Diffely
Analyst, D.A. Davidson

Yeah, no, that's perfect. Just one quick follow-up. When you look at just the core wire bonding market, is there any way to quantify the benefit you're getting from capital intensity increases for, I assume, having to slow down the wire bonders to do more accurate bonding with these multi-chip packages?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Okay. Let me tell you maybe what I know. We can come back if additional questions. Actually, when we enter from a 4G to 5G, we see a lot of additional demand for this multi-chip package. Right now we are not only seeing the actual amount of demand needed. The multi-chip package also have additional capital intensity because you need to connect a lot of interconnect within the package, right?

Maybe I answer from the other way. Tom, if you remember, two, three quarters ago, I mentioned our maybe baseline for our core business is about $750 million in a normal year, which represent 6%-8% unit growth. At the high growth year, like 10%, our core business probably will be about $850 million. We roughly estimate this multi-die package probably will add about additional $100 million-$115 million annually to our baseline, r ight? I think you can take a ratio roughly, articulate about the ratio of improvement due to a multi-die package.

Tom Diffely
Analyst, D.A. Davidson

Okay. No, that's very helpful. Thank you. Appreciate your time.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question today is coming from Krish Sankar from Cowen & Company. Your line is now live.

Krish Sankar
Analyst, Cowen & Company

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I had a couple of them, and congrats on the really strong results. First one, Fusen or Lester, I just wanted to inquire this first. You said fiscal 2021 revenue is $1.3 billion-$1.4 billion, which implies September revenues have to be down sequentially from June. Why is that the case?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Krish, I think that we guide, this time as we move on, outlook actually also getting better. Previously we got $1.1, but this time we got actually between $1.3-$1.4. That's our new guidance.

Lester Wong
CFO, Kulicke and Soffa

Krish, I think also, there's a lot of volatility in the supply chain, right? I think right now we're still looking in terms of the visibility got better, as Fusen said in his script for the second half, which is why we increased guidance. We are still being a bit cautious in terms of the quarter a little further out.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Krish, if you do a math, I remember the first quarter, roughly $270 something, and this quarter, $340. Altogether about $600. If we do our Q3, $400, that's about $1 billion, right? If you remember two quarter ago, during my script, I also say, maybe we will experience very slightly seasonality in Q4. One point three to one point four, you take a middle point, say it's a $350. That's exactly what we're talking about.

Krish Sankar
Analyst, Cowen & Company

Got it. Fair enough. Thanks for the color. I just have two quick follow-ups. One is, I think, Fusen, you mentioned about how lead times are now 10 months. Is the gating factor for your OSAT customers more on the substrates, not wirebonds, or is wirebond also a big issue for the OSAT customers?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Yeah. Actually, from all the information we got, right now, demand for wire bond is very strong in our OSAT. We continue to get a call, not only from OSAT, from different kind industry like automobile. We have a lot of high-level talks and see how can we work together and make sure we are not the bottleneck. I can tell you, I think, OSAT actually call us to be bottleneck, but hopefully we want to remove the bottleneck.

Krish Sankar
Analyst, Cowen & Company

Fair enough. Just last quick follow-up. How much was China as a percent of total sales?

Lester Wong
CFO, Kulicke and Soffa

For the quarter, China was 61%.

Krish Sankar
Analyst, Cowen & Company

61%. Okay.

Lester Wong
CFO, Kulicke and Soffa

Followed by Taiwan at 21%.

Krish Sankar
Analyst, Cowen & Company

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Charles Shi from Needham & Company. Your line is now live.

Charles Shi
Analyst, Needham & Company

Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on the nice results. I think, I want to start from your visibility in terms of the orders. Definitely, I understand you sort of guided a flat fiscal fourth quarter, flat or slightly down, given your supply constraints you are facing. I wonder, what's your outlook today as where you stand about the December quarter right now?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Well. Charles , I think from all the information we have, actually, next few quarters into FY 2022 are very, very strong. When we give a guidance, we also want to make sure the supply chain issue, we can address it. Right?

Yeah

I think December quarter for both of us, we still believe will be very good. We are not only dealing with a known supply chain issue. Once in a while, you never know. Today, we need to deal with the unknown supply chain issue. That's why I think the only thing we can tell you is that right now the order really is not a issue, extend well into the next few quarters. A lot still have some uncertainty, if everybody can work together to make the capacity go up as everybody's need. I think we have a quite good visibility to December quarters, even for early next year.

Charles Shi
Analyst, Needham & Company

Got it. Thanks. That's very helpful. Also a follow-up to one of the questions previously asked. Now, it seems like you are sort of expecting your baseline business, the core business, with the multi-chip packages, four dies per package, even at the same semiconductor package unit growth rate. You are sort of expecting $950 million to about $1 billion of your core business revenue. Is that right?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Yeah, I think, of course, in a normal year, I think it's probably about $900 something. Close to a $1 billion. I think we are in a much stronger position to support a future $1 billion-business with net profit probably greater than 20%, right? With the current change from 4G to 5G, with a change higher demand of multi-chip, and with our new business into display, we do feel much better to support and are in a stronger position to support baseline, probably close to $1 billion and above.

Charles Shi
Analyst, Needham & Company

Got it. My follow-up to that would be, I understand you massively increased your CapEx and over the last few quarters, but you also highlighted that the supply constraints is probably not your own manufacturing capacity at this point. It's probably more of the upstream, at the supply chain is more constrained, that's limiting your output. I wonder, with your current capacity, if we exclude any of the constraints in your supply chain network, what is your kind of design capacity is at, as of today, and what's your end goal after maybe at the end of this fiscal year?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Okay. We guide the next quarter is $400 million. From the information we got from the customers, for this cycle, we believe maybe the ideal capacity, peak capacity for us, we are seeing maybe around 450 per quarter. As you know, K&S, historically, we can ramp up quickly. I think this time, if you remember, our trough was 2019, actually Q2. We ramped actually from $150 million to the guidance of the next quarter, $400 million. We can do it quickly because of our design actually is not asset heavy, it's more labor related. We can ramp it up. You also see that our financial model, around $1 billion, we can have a 20% for sure net profit. Even we need to have some investment, this will not change our financial model.

Charles Shi
Analyst, Needham & Company

Got it. Sorry, allow me for asking the last question on Mini-LED. We recently hear that the premium electronics company in the U.S., they're seeing some yield issues. It's more likely due to PCBs, adhesive materials, as far as the press report says. I wonder whether that changes your very near term outlook for your Mini-LED tool shipment and revenues in terms of supporting the ramp of that latest tablet model equipped with Mini-LED. If you can provide any color, what do you think whether that can proliferate to the premium laptops, within this year or early next year as a suitable technology?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Okay. PIXALUX is our first generation tool. For the FY 2021, actually, we guide $60 million-$80 million annually revenue. We start to ship higher volume of our PIXALUX, Q3 of 2020. It's almost a four quarter, like Q3, Q4, and then now Q1, Q2. In the past few quarters, I think we ship around maybe $20 million per quarters. This quarter, actually, we are shipping PIXALUX family is close to $18 million-$19 million. We do believe, I think from now to 2022, middle of 2022, this long wave probably will impact. Our second generation of LUMINEX, which is in the final stage of development, probably will make some contribution into the maybe later part of 2022. Right. That's my view of our revenue, for our advanced display for the next few quarters.

The short answer is that we do not expect the shipment to our customers, for our PIXALUX will slow down. Of course, some quarter will be higher, some quarter will be low. Averagely, I think, this year we guide $60 million-$80 million, and we are on track to achieve a higher end of our guidance. In the next year, I think with LUMINEX, our second generation, which all contribute to the revenue data part 2022. The whole year, at this moment, looks like we are looking at over $100 million. 2023, hopefully, will go higher because of this LUMINEX, the second generation, actually serve multi-step, multi-process in this industry. PIXALUX only serve one step, one process, which is the final placement. This is a huge market, and we are very excited. At this moment, I think, we work with the industry, and the feedback has been very positive.

Charles Shi
Analyst, Needham & Company

Got it. Thank you for the sake of time. I want to go back to the queue. Thank you.

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, that's star one to be placed in the question queue. Our next question is coming from Christian Schwab from Craig-Hallum Capital Group. Your line is now live.

Christian Schwab
Analyst, Craig-Hallum Capital Group

Hey, fantastic quarter and very impressive outlook for the year. I guess my only question is just kind of tying up a lot of the questions that have been asked, Fusen. I'm wondering, given the long-term structural changes that you highlighted as far as capital intensity and multi-die packaging, as well as the opportunity and Mini-LEDs in the near term and MicroLED probably a little bit later. As we look to next fiscal year, what would be the puts and takes for your revenue to be flat, up, or down from the extremely strong guidance this year? Is there any puts and takes that you can walk us through?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Sure. Christian, I think it's a little bit early to forecast precisely next year, right? I think next few quarter, we will provide more details. I can tell you our preliminary view of FY 2022 outlook. From all indication, including our market study and the customer feedback, 2022 will continue to be a very strong year for us, and driven by very strong secular growth. I mentioned in my script, is a 5G, IoT, AI, EV memory will go up, and also our advanced display. I think that we might see some suffering in the transition driver, right? This transitional driver at a certain point will slow down a little bit. Let's make a hypothetical. If we finish our FY revenue, say $1.3-$1.4, right? This year we are going to grow almost double.

Such a fast growth is not unreasonable to expect a little bit suffering in a transitional driver. 1.3 to 1.4, possibly not unreasonable to expect to be around 1.1 to 1.2, right? This double of a revenue to pull back a little bit to consolidate, I think is reasonable. Even with a little bit slower FY 2022, lower than FY 2021 due to a huge ramp. We actually are quite optimistic because we still have a lot of acceleration to go.

A lot of growth initiatives including advanced LED, dedicated AP, our thermo-compression, 3D chip, and we can also grow in the APS. We believe if we pull back a little bit in 2022, say $200 million, we should be able to bring the revenue back to 2021 level, even beyond, or even beyond in FY 2023 and beyond, right? Again, this is not forecast. Since you asked, I just try to provide this, just our preliminary view of.

Christian Schwab
Analyst, Craig-Hallum Capital Group

Thank you for that. That's fantastic. I don't have any other questions. Thanks, guys.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question today is coming from David Duley from Steelhead Securities. Your line is now live.

David Duley
Analyst, Steelhead Securities

Thanks for taking my questions. Most have been answered. As far as the advanced packaging products, the APAMA and Katalyst, and the lineup of products there, what is a reasonable target for those advanced packaging products as far as revenue goes, perhaps in fiscal year 2021 and maybe a target for fiscal year 2022?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

Okay. David, I think, in my script I mentioned we actually working with customer, have a multiple win. I can tell you there are areas, for example, TCB. We have a win in the area of apps processor and also imaging sensor and also leading edge logic customers. This was just a task qualification and probably will grow next year. 3D chip, we have a position in the OSAT. Our hybrid system, which you can put a passive and active in the same package, we just have a win. This is application for D-RAM placement around a microprocessor. With this new lead qualification, we do expect, maybe next year, 2022, we probably can grow additional $40 million to $50 million revenue on top of 2021. Hopefully this can grow bigger beyond 2022.

David Duley
Analyst, Steelhead Securities

You've kind of talked about having revenue be in $1.1 billion-$1.2 billion range in 2022. If the advanced packaging products grow as you expect, wouldn't you think your revenue would be more flattish rather than down a little bit?

Fusen Chen
President and CEO, Kulicke and Soffa

David, when Christian ask you questions, we just try to hear our preliminary feeling, right? This market really very difficult to precisely forecast it. Our next two quarters, we probably can have a better discussion. This is just what we see right now. The transitional maybe can be as good as this year or can be a little bit worse than what I say, right? What I say is, I think to ramp up 100% and to expect continued growth probably is not very reasonable for us. At a certain point, I think slowdown will come. We do expect will be minor, and we still have organic growth can compensate it in the near futures. In short summary, I think we are in a better position to support a billion dollar and above, than any time before.

We have a very strong operational margin when we are over $1 million. Even at a quarterly $340, we almost touch 25% net profit. We cannot precisely predict the market, but I think the company is moving forward positively.

David Duley
Analyst, Steelhead Securities

Okay. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. We've reached the end of our question- and- answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to management for any further closing comments.

Joe Elgindy
Senior Director of Investor Relations and Strategic Initiatives, Kulicke and Soffa

Thank you, Kevin. Thank you all for joining today's call. We will be presenting at several upcoming conferences over the coming months, including conferences with Cowen, Craig-Hallum, Stifel, Jefferies, and also the CEO Summit. As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions. Have a great day, everyone. Operator, this concludes the call. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.